Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlan. I'm Arthur Nowlan.
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And welcome to Making It Work.
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¤ ¤
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When you talk about single
parenting, a lot of times you'll
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talk about or you'll see single
mothers. But yet on Making It
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Work we wanted to view or
interview a single father.
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In today's society what are
some of the things that men are
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facing as
single-parenting fathers?
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Well I guess expectations.
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What do you mean expectations?
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For the man as the single parent
of the home people in general
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expect that things are going to
be taken care of or not so much
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taken care of but there would
be a void in how he would care
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for his child.
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Okay, do you think single
fathers can change diapers,
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take care of an infant?
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Absolutely. Anything a
woman can do a man can do.
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You think so?
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Absolutely. I mean, but you have
nurturing characteristics that
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may be different than a male's
nurturing characteristics.
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I see. What was it like
for you to go through...
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See I was raised
by a single father.
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Yes you lost your mother
when you were seven years old.
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What was it like for you... And
I was raised by a single mother
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because my parents got divorced
when I was 12 but my father was
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still having parenting time with
us. But what was it like when
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you saw me, you were there, when
I gave birth to your daughter
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Ann. What was that like for you?
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It was an experience, I mean.
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Do you think you could have gone
through something like that?
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No, that's why God built
you because you can handle that
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better.
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Let's go there before we go
to our guest. You said that men
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could do everything that
women could do. All right.
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Of course, I didn't mean that.
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I know you didn't. But why
do you think, you know you said
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nurturing, we are built to
nurture and that's something God
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made us to do.
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No I said that the nurturing
characteristics are different.
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What was it like to see me give
me give birth. You were right
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there.
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It was an experience.
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What kind of experience to see
God's work. I mean, here it is
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that for 9 months you carried
this child and now you are
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giving birth. That was an
amazing experience. It really
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brought into mind how great
he is that He would allow a
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person to give birth
and for me to be there.
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Well I guess where I'm going
with this is that we talk about
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the empowerment, empowering
women, but we need to recognize
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that men and fathers have to be
empowered also. Yes it's a great
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task to give birth, but it's a
greater task to be a good parent
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And today we are blessed to have
a great parent with us and he
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has three sons. And there's a
twist to this story. But we want
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to let him tell his story. We
want to welcome Jeff and Jestin
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Wilder. Welcome to the show.
Listen, well I want to hear your
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story. I know, Jeff, you
have three sons, three different
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mothers. I want to talk
about your relationship with the
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mothers, with your sons and you
being raised in the church. You
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were born and raised Seventh-day
Adventist. How old were you when
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you had your first child?
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I was 23 years old when I had
my older son, my first child.
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Your first child. And then you
got in another relationship and
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had a second child.
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Well there's a twist to that.
I didn't know about the second
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child.
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You didn't know
about the second child.
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I didn't know about that.
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How many years you
didn't know about him?
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Three and a half years actually.
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So you never saw your
father Jestin for 3-1/2 years.
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No ma'am. Okay,
we'll come back to that.
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Then your youngest son Chase
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He's 11. Actually when I was in
a relationship with his mother,
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we were engaged and actually
when she found out she was with
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child that's when I found out
about him. I received a letter
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from the state. He actually was
a ward of the state. He was in a
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foster home at the
time when I found out.
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What?! What happened that
placed him in a foster home?
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His mother for lack of a better
way to say it, she abused him.
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And the state stepped in. One of
the things that she did was she
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finally mentioned my name
so they contacted me and that's
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how I got him. But it didn't
take place right away. There had
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to be a process, paternity,
which took two months. Then
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there was another five months
before he came to live with me.
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Through that process, they gave
me the opportunity to get to
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know him. I requested that we
do it on a gradual basis because
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I didn't think it was fair for
not only him but myself to be
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thrusted in and we don't know
anything about each other. So it
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was an every weekend thing, but
then that wasn't working so I
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requested he needs to just come.
After about four and a half
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months I decided, no, he needs
to come on. Then they granted
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it. They were just happy that
a black man was standing up to
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take care of his responsibility.
One of the things that really
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kind of shocked me is they gave
me a choice whether to leave
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him in the system or take him.
And of course he's here with me
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now. How old
were you then at that
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time Sweetheart, how old?
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I was about three.
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Do you remember all that?
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I remember bits and pieces
like vaguely what happened
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here and there.
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Do you remember being
abused by your mother?
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No. You don't
remember any of that.
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Do you see your mother today?
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No. No contact at all with her?
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It's very rare, very rare. Like
I have talked to her since then
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seen her a couple of
times, but it's very rare.
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So evidently every time I
see you, you know we are church
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members, we go to the same
church and I have a lot of time
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I spend with Jestin at camp
meeting where we have once a
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year at the camp wagon at Camp
Au Sable, Michigan. He's a joy
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to be around and with. But
you know during this process you
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know what was going on in your
life, because I know you're a
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teacher, you have your Masters
Degree. What was going on in
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your life at that time?
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At that time I wasn't in
education yet. I was a trade
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worker, a communications
technician. But there was a lot
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of things going on with me as
far as not knowing what my next
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step was. I was just drifting.
When he came along this was kind
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of the handwriting on the wall
so to say. It sort of slowed me
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down. It kind of made me put
things in perspective. When I
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got out of high school and I
actually went to church school
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all through grade school and
high school and went straight
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to an Adventist college but did
not finish. Just like the age
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old story, you go and
play around. You know, get your
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things taken care of the right
way. I came back home. Well when
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he came along that kind of put
a lot of things in perspective.
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Now I go from one son to three
in a matter of six months. So
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the Lord put in my mind you have
three men that you have to be
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an example for. More it was
a scary transition because I'm
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doing this by myself. And let me
say that I have a lot of respect
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for single mothers because I
live what they live. It's not an
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easy task. I mean, we've
gone through a lot of battles,
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behaviors, just the aspect
of trying to teach them just the
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simple things. There were a lot
of obstacles that contributed
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to the difficulties between
Jestin and myself. It hasn't
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been an easy row. It's been
rather difficult financially,
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but through it all, even though
I'm not where I want to be
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not having the things that
I probably need or want. I get
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the things I need, just
not things I want. Being of a
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spiritual background the Lord
hasn't left me hanging so I can
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say that has been the highlight
of raising him and the other two
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You never expected yourself
to be in a position like that.
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Well growing up in a church, no.
So many times as young people
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we tend to go through the motion
because that's what we're born
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into. Not necessarily we develop
our own relationship with the
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Lord. It's always an act.
But I heard something yesterday
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that we can't live our lives
spiritually off the backs of our
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parents and that was what I did
not understand. That's what I
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was spinning my wheels on. So
when I did that there were a lot
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of things that I was
becoming involved in.
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Let me ask. So you have three
sons. Okay, and when they all
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came together where was the help
I heard you say that you did it
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by yourself. Did your parents...
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My mom stepped in especially
with him not having his mother
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around. My mom stepped in to
provide that motherly part of
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the situation because I don't
have it at all. I'm hard core.
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Especially when it comes to
raising a young man. This is how
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we do it.
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That's the difference
between the male and the female.
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That's the difference. And you
know I admit it. There's not a
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lot of compassion in our DNA.
When you do it the right way
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it's balanced out. But when
you're alone it's hard to find.
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And it's the same I would
imagine with a single mother.
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She doesn't have that
mental strength that men have to
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out their children.
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Jestin let me ask you a question
How is it dealing with your dad
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and growing up in that
environment? Being given rules
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and sometimes not
agreeing with those rules?
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It's tough. It's very hard
because I'm a teenager now so...
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And how old are you? 15
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So everything your parents tell
you what to do is just because
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they tell you to do it and
it's for your benefit. You don't
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always get it and don't always
see how it's going to benefit
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you. But then there's a saying,
you don't see it now but you
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will in the future. So it's like
man, I don't get it. But I just
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have to do it because that's
what he says and it's better
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for me. He's older than me,
he's lived through it and some
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things he probably has
experience to his life so
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he knows so I just
have to go along with him.
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How do you get
along with your brothers?
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Well I'm closer with my older
brother. Chase was like a baby
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when me and little Jeff
were introduced. He was a baby.
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So you know, he's a little
brother. But me and little Jeff
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we kind of grew up a little bit
closer because we went through
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more. Chase was obviously
the baby so you know he was too
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young to experience some of the
things that me and little Jeff
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went through. My older brother
went through. So we get along.
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We have our moments where
each other gets on the other
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person's nerves but for the
most part I love my brothers.
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But Chase comes over on the
weekends and things like that.
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Now he's
Seventh-day Adventist? Chase?
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Yes ma'am.
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And Jeff is a Seventh-day
Adventist? (Nods head).
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Now where does Jeff live?
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He lives at Huntsville, AL.
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So do you go down and visit him?
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Yes ma'am. Sometimes for
the holidays days, for Alumni
00:14:13.35\00:14:18.09
weekend Things like that.
So what about your chores? What
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kind of chores do you have?
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I do everything. Cook,
clean. I can do some things...
00:14:26.13\00:14:35.00
Do you get an
allowance? No ma'am.
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You don't get no allowance.
What is this? Slave labor.
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You don't get no allowance...
Never got an allowance...
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I mean, you don't look like
you are lacking or in need of
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anything. He gets pretty much...
I sacrifice pretty much to get
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him what he wants sometimes.
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I'm glad you brought that up.
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You know because it is a
sacrifice and what you're
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experiencing is probably
once again with the unexpected.
00:15:04.10\00:15:09.20
You know let's talk about
behavior. Let's talk about your
00:15:09.24\00:15:14.28
behavior. Being born and raised
00:15:14.31\00:15:15.88
Seventh-day Adventist, you
know going through Christian
00:15:15.94\00:15:19.61
education and then I understand
you get to a point where you
00:15:19.65\00:15:23.89
have a child outside of wedlock.
But you don't have just one, you
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have three. What were you
missing. What got you to that
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point?
00:15:33.43\00:15:34.76
I shouldn't think about that
a lot. There were some things in
00:15:34.80\00:15:41.04
my upbringing that contributed
to that. My mom did the best
00:15:41.10\00:15:46.61
that she could. I had a
step father in the home but step
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father was always gone. He was
always doing his thing, so my
00:15:51.05\00:15:56.05
mom pretty much ran the house
hold but by her running the
00:15:56.08\00:16:01.06
household there were some things
in her upbringing that she did
00:16:01.09\00:16:07.66
not have. Saying I love you was
very rare. A hug and a kiss was
00:16:07.70\00:16:14.97
very rare. So there was a lot of
searching for that acceptance.
00:16:15.00\00:16:21.11
Growing up there were a lot of
low self-esteem issues and when
00:16:21.14\00:16:26.15
I got out and started receiving
attention, it was the wrong
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attention. It was the thirst for
more but it was always the wrong
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attention.
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What about biological father?
00:16:41.40\00:16:42.73
My biological father was not in
my life. I knew him, I saw him,
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but there was no connection,
there were no dealings with him
00:16:49.34\00:16:55.28
in terms of a relationship and
that's one of the reasons why
00:16:55.31\00:17:01.45
I do what I do with my boys.
One, because of the in-home
00:17:01.48\00:17:06.52
situation and, two, because
of I always say I would never do
00:17:06.55\00:17:12.69
my children like my dad did me.
And that's why I'm hard on my
00:17:12.73\00:17:17.27
boys. That's why I teach them
to be respectful, I teach them
00:17:17.30\00:17:21.30
to handle their business. And
that was another reason why I
00:17:21.37\00:17:25.17
decided to go back to school
because if I can't do it, I
00:17:25.21\00:17:28.94
can't tell them to do it. So in
the span of like three years I
00:17:28.98\00:17:34.52
completed my bachelors and
got my masters. So he's a 4.0
00:17:34.55\00:17:41.99
student. The importance of
that to me is I wasted a lot of
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time and I don't want that
for my children. Because of the
00:17:48.70\00:17:54.90
relationships that I did
not have caused a lot of time
00:17:54.94\00:18:01.08
wasted. As long as I'm breathing
I insist that that not happen to
00:18:01.11\00:18:09.28
my boys.
00:18:09.32\00:18:10.65
That's so beautiful Jeff. You
know when I see you in church
00:18:10.69\00:18:13.62
he sits close to you. Do you
know you have those boys right
00:18:13.66\00:18:17.36
there. I see that that's
military. That's Jeff, I see
00:18:17.39\00:18:21.36
daddy, I see those two boys,
I see those boys, I see daddy.
00:18:21.40\00:18:28.47
One thing my mom taught us was
when we're in church it's not a
00:18:28.50\00:18:35.34
time for play. And being young
you naturally do what everybody
00:18:35.38\00:18:42.72
else does. I have them around
me because that's what had been
00:18:42.75\00:18:48.69
taught to me. And I do recognize
and understand that church is
00:18:48.72\00:18:54.60
for development of our
relationship with Christ and
00:18:54.63\00:18:58.97
if we're playing, we're missing
it. So they know when we're in
00:18:59.03\00:19:05.04
church they need to be around
me. No hiding, no running around
00:19:05.07\00:19:11.05
none of that. So
they understand that.
00:19:11.08\00:19:13.72
They understand? Let me ask.
4.0. What are your goals for
00:19:13.75\00:19:18.55
your life?
00:19:18.59\00:19:19.92
Ultimately I want to
become a neurosurgeon.
00:19:19.95\00:19:24.99
Is that right? Why?
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.56
Well I just always gravitated
towards the body, especially
00:19:26.59\00:19:32.80
the brain. That's something that
always fascinated me since I was
00:19:32.83\00:19:37.91
little.
00:19:37.94\00:19:39.27
So your good in
math, 4.0, sciences
00:19:39.31\00:19:40.88
You do your homework, you do
your chores. You attend church.
00:19:41.01\00:19:45.28
Can you sing?
00:19:45.31\00:19:49.12
No I don't do the singing.
00:19:49.15\00:19:55.72
You know I don't see you in
the choir. I say where is Jeff?
00:19:55.76\00:19:57.66
Singing, that's
not one of my talents.
00:19:57.69\00:20:01.20
Okay, all right.
What about girlfriends?
00:20:01.23\00:20:04.63
He's shaking his head. You're so
handsome. So what you going to
00:20:04.67\00:20:15.81
do? _with that.
00:20:15.84\00:20:17.18
The thing is there's time for
that and now is not the time.
00:20:17.21\00:20:24.95
I wish my mom would have done
that with me because my focus
00:20:24.99\00:20:31.03
probably would have been a
little different. She allowed me
00:20:31.06\00:20:35.93
like I said I had to sit with
her. Well she allowed the young
00:20:35.96\00:20:41.60
lady to come sit with us when
I sat with my parents. It's too
00:20:41.64\00:20:47.24
early to develop that in
my opinion. Some people may
00:20:47.28\00:20:50.41
disagree with that but he's my
child, so I know his DNA because
00:20:50.45\00:20:57.29
his DNA is my DNA and he
can't do what I know that I did.
00:20:57.32\00:21:02.29
You understand what I'm saying?
So if I'm wrong on that I'll
00:21:02.32\00:21:07.26
just have to be wrong on that.
00:21:07.30\00:21:08.63
So what do you do at church
when these young ladies are
00:21:08.66\00:21:12.03
growing up and see
the young lady, you just _
00:21:12.07\00:21:18.14
I don't tell them
anything. He tells them.
00:21:18.17\00:21:24.15
I mean if something's done
that's inappropriate I just let
00:21:24.18\00:21:28.18
them know, I don't do that.
00:21:28.22\00:21:30.39
So what about if the young
ladies want to sit with you in
00:21:30.45\00:21:32.52
church? You tell
them... What do you tell them?
00:21:32.55\00:21:34.39
Well I don't say anything.
They already know. People just
00:21:35.06\00:21:38.29
going to take one look at
my dad and they already know.
00:21:38.33\00:21:41.50
They're scared more than I am.
So they take one look at him.
00:21:41.53\00:21:46.70
So this then is not a problem.
00:21:46.74\00:21:50.81
No, no, not at all. I mean I do
a lot of fussing but that comes
00:21:50.84\00:21:55.04
with the territory.
00:21:55.08\00:21:57.91
So is his bark really loud?
Does it get loud sometimes.
00:21:57.95\00:21:59.28
It can get there.
00:22:01.98\00:22:03.32
It can get there. So you know
when daddy has that look, does
00:22:03.35\00:22:07.39
he have a look?
00:22:07.46\00:22:08.79
Just look at you, you do
something. He looks like this.
00:22:08.82\00:22:12.89
I know when I was talking
about the program, wait I'm
00:22:12.93\00:22:16.93
going to tell you what's up.
We were in the corridor of the
00:22:16.97\00:22:20.44
church, the vestibule of the
church and Lord just put this
00:22:20.47\00:22:24.01
on me. I said, Jeff I gotta
interview you and what you've
00:22:24.04\00:22:27.51
gone through, and I didn't know
the three different stories, but
00:22:27.54\00:22:31.48
Jestin was standing behind
him as captain, lieutenant,
00:22:31.51\00:22:36.45
did I say that right?
00:22:36.48\00:22:37.82
Jestin didn't move. Chase
was to my right leaning over me
00:22:37.85\00:22:44.13
and I'm like Jestin didn't move.
He didn't move. Did he breathe?
00:22:44.19\00:22:50.57
I've taught them, I mean...
and there's a funny story.
00:22:50.60\00:22:54.54
You know I used to play
basketball for the church and I
00:22:54.57\00:22:58.87
used to always have the boys
with me and you know I can't
00:22:58.91\00:23:03.04
watch them and play at the same
time so I had them sitting in
00:23:03.11\00:23:07.78
the bleachers. And one of my
former teachers, Ms. Bertram,
00:23:07.82\00:23:12.52
after it was all over, I forgot
about the boys. I went to the
00:23:12.55\00:23:16.66
locker room. We were upset, we'd
lost. And I'm on my way out to
00:23:16.73\00:23:20.80
the car. And I said, wait a
minute, I came with two little
00:23:20.83\00:23:25.77
people. And I go back, and
Ms. Bertram said, I told them to
00:23:25.80\00:23:30.41
come on. They were like, no my
dad says to sit right here. And
00:23:30.44\00:23:34.54
if he says sit right here, we're
going to stay right here. So
00:23:34.58\00:23:38.68
They've been conditioned
whatever I say they need to
00:23:38.71\00:23:43.39
follow through.
00:23:43.42\00:23:44.75
My goodness. I guess
what I'm getting out of
00:23:44.79\00:23:48.96
this at this point is basically
nothing that you experienced
00:23:48.99\00:23:54.96
in your family of origin,
especially negative situations
00:23:55.00\00:24:00.54
is going to cross over into
how you raise your children.
00:24:00.57\00:24:06.47
No, no. I think the things and
the experiences that I've had
00:24:06.51\00:24:13.95
motivate me to do what I do the
way that I do it. I'm very, very
00:24:13.98\00:24:22.26
adamant about making the best
of their time. No opportunity's
00:24:22.29\00:24:31.10
wasted. They believe in that,
especially him. He knows the
00:24:31.13\00:24:37.91
hard work that I put into him
to teach him, he's owned it for
00:24:37.94\00:24:43.14
himself and he does above
and beyond with his school work.
00:24:43.18\00:24:48.08
I still have to tighten him
up around the house but for the
00:24:48.12\00:24:52.99
most part he's a good kid.
00:24:53.02\00:24:55.02
What about Chase?
Where is the youngest one?
00:24:55.06\00:24:57.23
Did you ever consider
that you were going to have a
00:24:57.26\00:25:02.90
relationship that would have
led to marriage or anything?
00:25:02.93\00:25:06.97
I did but under the
circumstances it didn't
00:25:07.00\00:25:10.51
work out because of everything
that I was going through.
00:25:10.54\00:25:16.01
Even with him that is why I
go above and beyond with him.
00:25:16.04\00:25:22.25
Every chance, every free moment
he's with me and he follows
00:25:22.28\00:25:28.46
through just like
Jestin. He's a 4.0 student too.
00:25:28.49\00:25:32.13
I like the way Jestin is dressed
Sabbath, the bow tie, the jacket
00:25:32.16\00:25:38.00
you know how you keep them
dressed. Appropriate for church.
00:25:38.03\00:25:41.77
We've gotten kind of lax in
our children can come the way I
00:25:41.80\00:25:45.51
don't. You know
Brother Nowlan and I and Aaron.
00:25:45.54\00:25:48.78
But at the same time not only
outwardly but inwardly I see
00:25:48.81\00:25:52.95
excellent parenting skills
and that's why we wanted you to
00:25:52.98\00:25:57.05
come on Making It Work. You are
single, you are focused, and you
00:25:57.09\00:26:00.72
directing these children in the
way they should go and the way
00:26:00.76\00:26:04.76
the Lord. And now you are
totally connected with the Lord.
00:26:04.79\00:26:08.00
Let's talk about that in the
last about a minute and a half.
00:26:08.03\00:26:11.20
Your relationship
spiritually in the home.
00:26:11.23\00:26:14.77
We are striving every day.
My prayer daily is to develop a
00:26:14.80\00:26:22.18
stronger sense of spirituality
so that they can see the face
00:26:22.21\00:26:29.52
of Jesus in me. It's a
struggle sometimes because of
00:26:29.58\00:26:34.12
circumstances. You know, I'm
human just like everybody else
00:26:34.16\00:26:39.63
and I do sometimes get weighted
down. But I was born and raised
00:26:39.69\00:26:45.03
in the church and a lot of the
doctrines and philosophies I do
00:26:45.10\00:26:49.50
believe in. So this is why I
haven't to turn my back totally
00:26:49.57\00:26:53.98
on what I've learned. Train
up a child in the way he should
00:26:54.01\00:26:57.78
go and my mom has really
instilled that in me regardless
00:26:57.81\00:27:01.55
of what was going on. So I try
to do that with them. We're not
00:27:01.58\00:27:06.69
always there but
we're still striving.
00:27:06.76\00:27:09.16
Do feel daddy is a good parent?
00:27:09.19\00:27:11.19
I do, I do. Why, why? Because
my dad he knows me and he knows
00:27:11.23\00:27:16.97
what I'm capable of doing and
he wants nothing but the best
00:27:17.00\00:27:22.67
for me. Do you love your father?
00:27:22.70\00:27:24.41
I do, with all my heart.
00:27:24.44\00:27:25.77
So you're glad that the Lord
sent him to come get you out of
00:27:25.81\00:27:29.88
that foster home? I'm grateful.
00:27:29.91\00:27:32.38
Amen. I'm very grateful.
00:27:32.41\00:27:33.75
Arthur, single, focused
and directed. Single fathers.
00:27:33.78\00:27:40.96
I want to say to all the single
fathers today, hold on, be
00:27:40.99\00:27:44.66
strong and continue to
stay focused and directed.
00:27:44.69\00:27:47.66
I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlan, I'm Arthur Nowlan.
00:27:47.70\00:27:51.17
and I want to thank this
wonderful family for being with
00:27:51.20\00:27:53.60
us. Continue to Make It
Work. God bless. God bless.
00:27:53.64\00:27:57.91