Participants:
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000067A
|
00:02 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:04 I'm Arthur Nowlin. 00:05 And welcome to Making It Work. 00:37 When you think about someone who's gone the distance 00:41 and then someone who has a undying commitment, 00:44 and I'm talking about to parents. 00:46 What does I say you? 00:50 It says that, 00:51 there is a strong commitment of love, appreciation. 00:56 Appreciation... 00:57 And then, that you're at a point 01:00 where you feel that this is something you have to do. 01:02 Okay. 01:04 So that bond, it goes beyond the actual love 01:06 with something I'm committed to do. 01:08 Yeah, I have to do this. 01:09 Well, you know, today we have a special guest 01:11 who has comes back. 01:13 She was on a few weeks ago with us, 01:15 a season before, sorry. 01:17 And she has come back to tell us part two. 01:20 Now in the previous program, 01:23 Joanne Fuller talked about her relationship 01:26 going to distance. 01:27 She had lost her father, 01:29 pastor within the Lake Region Conference again. 01:32 We have several, several divisions 01:34 in the North American division itself, 01:37 but the Lake Region Conference is made up of five states. 01:40 And her father served as one of the pastors. 01:42 When I was a little girl growing up in Detroit, 01:46 he was one of our pastors. 01:48 So today, she has come back to talk about her relationship 01:52 with her mother, undying commitment. 01:54 Welcome, Joanne Fuller. 01:56 Thank you. Hi, Joanne. 01:57 Thank you for having me back. 01:58 Thank you, you know, 02:00 and if you watch out previous program, 02:01 Joanne, does my hair. 02:05 You know, she gives me a different look. 02:06 Thank you, Joanne. You're so welcome, Arthur. 02:08 You know, you appeared to "Oh, no you didn't do that", 02:12 did you just do that? 02:13 Why? 02:15 I think that is a complement. Of course. 02:16 But we want to recognize him, Joanne, 02:18 but at least I've changed my hair too much, 02:20 they can't keep up with me. 02:21 That's all right, keep him on the toe. 02:22 Keep them on their toe. 02:24 That's all right, keep them on the toes. 02:25 Do I keep you on your toes? 02:27 You keep me on my feet. 02:29 Oh, I will take that as a complement. 02:31 You know, well, Joanne, thank you for coming back. 02:34 Thank you. 02:35 And we want to talk about your undying commitment. 02:37 Want you to tell us the story 02:38 about what you went through with your mother. 02:40 And at times it was very tumultuous, is very difficult, 02:43 But you were still committed to the day she passed away. 02:47 Tell us your story and tell us why you stay committed? 02:50 So you want me to start with the Alzheimer's 02:53 or you want me to start with before? 02:55 Before they laid into it... 02:57 Way before? Yes, yes as a little girl. 02:59 Oh, my goodness, well, that was some as you, 03:04 the word you used tumultuous. 03:05 Yes. 03:08 Just the relationship 03:10 was a different type of relationship. 03:15 To me what, to me 03:17 it was not a typical mother and daughter relationship. 03:21 I was closer to my dad than I was to my mom. 03:25 And we just never saw eye to eye. 03:30 For her I was too independent. 03:33 I asked too many questions. I was the wild child. 03:37 Well, there has to be a reason, you know, that was just. 03:40 But that was me, that was me. 03:42 I just wanted to know why? 03:44 I was not the one if you just tell me don't do it but why? 03:48 There has to be a reason, why? 03:50 So that, I mean, that really got on to her skin 03:52 and she told me many times, you are so independent. 03:55 But I thought this how they were trying to raise me 03:58 especially being the only girl. 04:00 And, you know, my father was like, well, 04:02 you know, I want you to get married and everything. 04:06 But I don't want to ever have to depend on a man 04:10 which is different than being committed to a man. 04:13 Oh, yes. 04:15 And he explained that difference. 04:16 You know, and so I was raised to be kind of independent. 04:20 I was raised not to take you have a car. 04:23 I was raised to... 04:25 I've worked with him in his carpentry business. 04:27 So I know how to paint, I know how to lay a wood floor, 04:30 I know how to lay tile, I know how to do all of that, 04:35 because he taught me. 04:36 Yes. 04:37 Well, with my mom, who... 04:40 I don't know if she wanted a prissy girl 04:42 or because I wasn't prissy when I was younger. 04:45 You know, I was out there playing football 04:46 with the boys in the neighborhood, 04:49 and basketball, and softball, and fighting, 04:54 fighting my brother's fights... 04:56 Okay, okay. 04:57 You know, although my oldest brother 04:58 was five years older than I, 05:00 I was the one that was taken up for both of us. 05:01 Mercy. 05:03 You know, just crazy. All right. 05:05 I was the... 05:06 Did he give you orders? 05:08 Who did the spanking? 05:09 They both did. Okay. 05:10 They both did. 05:13 She... 05:19 Very, what's another word besides hothead. 05:22 She was, my dad, 05:24 if he was gonna a kind of disorder. 05:27 Yeah, my dad was, if he was going to spank you, 05:30 he would talk to you first, 05:31 put you over his knee and spank you. 05:32 Yes. 05:34 My mom, you know, 05:35 it was the extension cord and the... 05:38 I'm going to tell what Hebrew slave did... 05:40 And they don't try not to cry. 05:41 Yes. 05:43 You remember those days. 05:45 So both your parents were the disciplinarians, 05:47 and they spanked you, you know. 05:49 Oh, yes. Okay. 05:50 Because I didn't get a lot of spanking. 05:52 You didn't get a lot of spanking? 05:53 Didn't get a lot of spanking. Okay. 05:55 Because I wasn't crazy. Okay. 05:56 I knew he doesn't like that. 05:57 But mom was the one who was more, 05:59 she was the more stricter parent? 06:02 Yes, she was the stricter parent. 06:03 Yes. 06:04 I couldn't go a lot of places, 06:09 I couldn't spend the night over anyone's house, you know, 06:11 even if they were like slumber parties I could go, 06:14 but there she would pick me up at either 12 or 1, 06:17 whatever time she decide to pick me up, 06:19 and I would had to. 06:20 No spending the night? 06:21 No spending the night, I love my mother though. 06:24 Yeah. 06:26 I did, my mother's very funny, very funny. 06:28 Okay. 06:30 Musically talented. 06:32 Just, I still love that my mother 06:34 just play the piano, and the pipe organ and I mean, 06:38 just she was so talented and gifted. 06:42 Gifted as far as, 06:44 I think I got my sewing stuff from her, you know, 06:47 because she used to sew, just she was really gifted. 06:52 And I loved her, but we didn't have the relationship. 06:55 To me that mothers and daughters had. 06:56 She had it more with my brothers, I think. 06:59 So what was that you were looking for from her, 07:04 and I would assume that as you 07:07 matured into being a young woman, 07:11 that you recognize that you needed something more 07:14 from your mom, you know, 07:17 what was it that she was really looking for. 07:20 You know what I think, I wanted that, you know, 07:25 I have those friends who have that relationship, 07:27 and they could talk to their mother 07:29 and the mother and then they go shopping. 07:31 They just have that... 07:36 I think that's what I was looking for. 07:38 And the older I get the more I seek, 07:40 because I didn't have grandmothers either. 07:42 So I never had that relationship with women. 07:46 My grandmothers, 07:48 my dad's mother died when I was about one. 07:51 And my mother's mother died when I was about eight. 07:54 So I didn't have grandmothers growing up. 07:57 Okay. 07:58 And then not to have that relationship, you know, 08:02 I always felt like we should be close and, you know, 08:05 when I had a accident, 08:08 where in school my finger got cut off. 08:12 And, you know, not really supportive, 08:16 not really there, you know, my dad was there. 08:22 My aunt was there, her baby sister 08:24 but wasn't there just... 08:26 She didn't show up. 08:28 No, I remembered talk to her on the phone, 08:30 and she was fussing because it happen 08:32 and what were you doing instead of being, you know, 08:36 compassionate and I guess 08:38 that's what I was looking more for is the compassion. 08:41 And when I look back and I think 08:42 that's what I wanted is that somebody to care for me. 08:48 And I don't feel like I didn't feel like I had that. 08:51 So after you recognize that void was there, 08:58 how did that motivates you 09:01 as far as going into adulthood? 09:06 Wow, I thought I moved out of my parent's home 09:09 when I was 19. 09:12 Because our relation had really gotten to the point 09:14 where my dad was separating us, 09:18 when came it to arguments and stuff like that, yeah. 09:21 And so finally, I said okay, 09:22 well, I'm out and he knew it was time. 09:25 And he told me it was time. 09:27 So he sat down with me, 09:29 and we did budgeting and all that kind of stuff. 09:32 So I went and got an apartment, 09:33 and from then on 09:40 just kind of just took it one day at a time. 09:43 Missing that voice, missing that, 09:45 still missing that relationship. 09:48 And it was funny because even and after I moved out, 09:53 and I'm just being honest, 09:55 but she was still trying to control the situation 09:58 in my home, in my apartment. 10:00 In your space? In my space. 10:02 So, you know, having to... 10:08 respectfully say, okay, now this is my home. 10:12 This is my space. You say that too hard. 10:14 And you have to call before you come over. 10:17 And you have to because, you know, 10:23 and it was hard. 10:24 And it was hard for, 10:26 I know it was hard for my dad to see that too. 10:29 And then it was kind of hard for me 10:30 because, and then I as I grew, 10:34 as I matured, I realized that, that was his wife. 10:39 I felt like at one point that he should've taken sides. 10:42 But now I realize that, 10:45 I was his daughter and that was his wife. 10:48 You know, and, you know, I had to respect that 10:51 even though he was my dad. 10:55 But it was still there are periods of a time 10:57 when we didn't talk for a long time. 10:59 Really? 11:00 Oh yeah, for it could have been six months, a year. 11:04 And part of that was because of my lifestyle. 11:07 She didn't care for my lifestyle. 11:09 And, you know, 11:10 I was not perfect I wasn't in the church always. 11:14 So but she always had an opinion about it 11:18 but, you know, there were times when we went head up, head up. 11:24 So, so moving out, 11:27 you also change the way you were doing things. 11:30 You know, so we're talking about going out, 11:34 you know, partying. 11:36 Oh, partying. 11:37 Yeah, and drinking, smoking, 11:41 I mean just when I went out, when I left, I left. 11:46 I left. 11:48 Do you think, is she had a great impact on the way 11:51 you changed your lifestyle 11:52 being raised in the Seventh-day Adventist church 11:54 as a Christian to going to just the opposite 11:57 or was it just a choice you made? 12:01 I think it was more of a choice. 12:04 I think it was more of my choice 12:06 than her pushing me out there. 12:10 I don't think, I can't put that on her. 12:12 I think it was more of my choice. 12:14 What were you looking for? 12:16 I think I was looking for love, bottom line, 12:20 I was looking for love. 12:21 I was looking for somebody to love me. 12:27 And I realized that when my drinking got to the point, 12:30 I was never, I never got drunk out. 12:33 Like if I was out clubbing or whatever. 12:36 I can nurse the drink all night long. 12:37 Okay. 12:38 But I would drink at home. 12:42 By yourself? By myself. 12:44 And I'll never forget one time I woke up in the next morning, 12:49 and I had a knot on of my head. 12:50 And could not, I did not know where the knot came from. 12:54 And at that point I realized okay you know what, 12:58 'cause I mean like somebody told me 13:00 you could cure yourself. 13:02 I mean live and knock yourself out, 13:04 and just been there. 13:06 So I realized that there was some issues 13:08 and I start counseling and stuff after that point. 13:13 And you stopped drinking? 13:15 No, but it slowed down whole lot. 13:18 Okay. 13:19 But it slowed down a lot. 13:21 Okay. 13:22 So you don't really blame her. 13:24 I don't. 13:27 And I guess at this point maybe I did then, 13:29 but at this point, I don't. 13:32 We went through... 13:35 binding of the wounds. 13:36 Yes. 13:37 At Burns, our pastor Julia severed at that time 13:40 brought that to our church. 13:42 And I can't say thought that 13:44 I did have a lot of animosity build up. 13:48 And maybe even some hatred. 13:50 And it was to the point that, 13:53 I'll never forget I was doing a client, 13:55 and she and my dad had come down to visit. 13:58 And my client say, 14:00 when my mother walked in the room 14:02 she could feel it risen me. 14:06 She says, she didn't know what was going on, 14:08 but she sit in my chair in front of me. 14:11 But she say, she felt some rise in me. 14:13 And that's how it always was with us. 14:15 When she would come into my space, 14:19 I was very uncomfortable. 14:21 I was just, you know, just on it and just waiting, 14:24 trying to say something. 14:26 Just waiting for, you know, for something to happen. 14:29 And but as we went through binding of the wounds. 14:34 It helped me to realize and like I said, 14:36 some of those choices were my choices. 14:38 But it also part of that was that you had to write letters. 14:43 And or even talk to. 14:47 Well at this time, she had just started into her, 14:50 into the Alzheimer's. 14:51 So I didn't get a chance to really sit down 14:53 and talk to her. 14:55 Okay. 14:56 So what I did was, I went to her sister. 14:59 And I told her what I was doing and what I was going through, 15:02 and this process and just asked her some questions. 15:08 And she gave me some history. 15:09 Okay. 15:11 On the family, my mother comes from twelve, 15:13 six boys and six girls. 15:15 And she is I think she is third oldest. 15:18 And so when she gave me that history, 15:21 it was like okay, wow. 15:24 Eye opening. 15:25 Very eye opening. 15:27 And it really helped me see 15:31 that this wasn't just her and that... 15:36 We do things or sometimes our life 15:40 goes because of what happen before us. 15:44 And the things that happened to us. 15:47 And when she started talking to me about the family history, 15:53 that really gave me some empathy for my mother. 15:58 And that's when things for me stared to change towards her, 16:02 because now I had a understanding. 16:05 And this doesn't, it's not that 16:06 she just after like she hated me 16:09 or didn't like girls. 16:12 This was how she was right. 16:16 Some of the, you know, 16:18 just say with great odds, 16:20 and how they treated them as children. 16:22 And just one story she said, 16:25 she was telling me that, 16:27 one time they were sitting on the porch 16:29 and one of our great aunts came, 16:31 couple of our great aunts came to visit, 16:33 and they said hello. 16:35 Well, I guess everybody didn't say hello loud enough, 16:39 so they got slapped. 16:41 No. 16:42 So I mean, that's just one example. 16:45 So it's like wow. 16:46 Okay so this stuff didn't just start with her. 16:51 It was a history of things, a history of abuse. 16:56 And that really, really cause me to really think 17:00 because I really... 17:03 Did not like holding on to that. 17:06 I really didn't, you know, 17:08 I don't like holding on the grudges. 17:10 I don't like holding on to the stuff. 17:12 Right. 17:13 And I really thank God for the efforts, 17:15 for bringing that to Burns because it helped. 17:19 I know it helped me, 17:20 and I know it will help some other people. 17:22 But I know that if it wasn't for that, 17:23 I probably still be holding on to a lot of this. 17:26 Praise God. 17:27 But that really caused me to do a lot of soul searching. 17:32 And I'm just asking God to help me, 17:36 to take it away even though I couldn't talk to her, 17:39 and couldn't get some of the answers. 17:41 But just help me, it helped to take out 17:43 a lot of that animosity and hatred away. 17:46 When we talk about our different churches 17:48 in our Seventh-day Adventist circle. 17:51 Burns Seventh-day Adventist church 17:53 is where you and I grew up in Detroit, Michigan. 17:55 And that's where you had the experience 17:58 of binding the wounds with Pastor 18:00 and Mrs. Everett, Dr. Everett. 18:02 Let's talk about your son 18:04 and his relation with his grandmother. 18:07 What was that like for him? 18:10 Well, because they lived in Detroit, 18:12 I mean we lived in Detroit. 18:13 And I'm sorry they lived in Chicago it was, 18:19 it was different and... 18:23 It's funny 'cause grandparents treat their grandchildren 18:27 so much nicer than they treat us 18:30 for something we used to get in trouble for. 18:31 They let them get away with. 18:33 Just like what? 18:34 So you're saying that, you know, things that you did, 18:36 you have gotten whippings sort of punishment, 18:39 but grandchildren, they get away with everything. 18:42 Oh, yes, oh yes, she loves her grandchildren. 18:45 She has two grandchildren, 18:46 and she loves her grandchildren very much. 18:49 Let's know even during that time 18:51 when you noticed that, you know, 18:53 she had a different relationship 18:55 with the grandchildren. 18:58 Did you kind of reach out to her 19:01 or what were you thinking yeah, 19:03 this is the type of relationship, 19:05 I would have appreciated, you know. 19:09 You know what maybe but I think I thought because he was a boy. 19:13 Okay. 19:14 Because I always thought she had issues with girls. 19:16 And maybe is because it was me. 19:19 But because my mother also was a foster mother, 19:21 had been foster mother for years. 19:23 But most of the foster children that we have we boys. 19:27 So I always thought it was an issue with girls. 19:31 So maybe because he was a boy, 19:34 you know, but I never kept him away from them. 19:39 And even we go on cruises 19:41 and Rick, my husband and I, Rick, 19:44 and they would come down from Chicago, 19:47 and keep him while we were gone. 19:49 And get him ready for school and everything. 19:51 So I never tried to keep them away, 19:55 'cause she really enjoyed her grandchildren. 19:58 She really enjoyed them. 20:00 Well, how did this impact you as a mother, 20:02 you know, being raised by, you know, 20:05 the mother that you had and her personality 20:07 and raising your own child? 20:09 Well... 20:11 I'm more like my dad because I'm more laid back. 20:17 Everybody says that, my mother used to even say that, 20:19 you're just like your dad, you know, 20:21 but I really made a conscious effort 20:24 with my side to talk to him. 20:28 And let him talk to me respectfully, 20:31 but I did let him talk to me. 20:34 He is 21 now, he will be 22 in July. 20:36 I can't even believe that, little Ricky, oh, man. 20:39 Yes. 20:41 But I always let him talk to me. 20:43 And it's funny because, I used to just listen 20:48 and when was in grade school, high school, 20:52 and I would just let him talk, talk, 20:54 you know, in the inside you're like, "What? 20:56 You what?" 20:57 But I would just let him talk, 20:59 I used to tell himself all the time, all the time. 21:02 But I made a conscious effort to allow him. 21:10 First of all to be who he is, 21:12 and then to of course to direct him, 21:15 but also to have an open communication 21:18 and open relationship with him. 21:20 Do you... 21:22 After binding the wounds, that program, 21:26 that you participated in Burns. 21:30 Do you see now like people that may have been in your position, 21:35 families, young women or young girls 21:39 that may be having difficulties with their family origin? 21:44 Are you to drawn towards that or? 21:46 You know, what I am and it's funny. 21:48 I have a few people now who are dealing with that, 21:50 who for some reason always want to talk to me. 21:56 And, you know, and I do share 21:59 my experience with them and even how 22:04 I had to go within myself, 22:08 and ask God to help me get over this 22:12 'cause you only have one mother, 22:15 you only have one father. 22:16 That's it. 22:17 That's it. 22:19 And I can't see going through the rest of my life 22:21 with that built up. 22:24 And if you have the opportunity to talk to, 22:27 sit down and talk to them, if they would allow you. 22:30 Now some have tried and, 22:34 you now, they shut them down. 22:36 So that's to me what you have to do that 22:41 within yourself like I did 22:42 because I couldn't talk to my mother. 22:44 So I had to go within and ask God 22:45 to help me get rid of this. 22:48 Get rid of those feelings, 22:49 get rid of that animosity and that hatred. 22:52 Can we talk about the Alzheimer's, 22:54 what was that like for you, and explain to our viewers 22:59 what your mother went through? 23:03 That's a hard illness to deal with, 23:08 because you see them leaving you. 23:11 And you see that they're physically, 23:14 but you see them they're like in their own world, 23:18 in another world. 23:19 And so as they start going further and further, 23:25 I say into that world or into that realm is like 23:28 wow, you know. 23:32 I hate to see that with anyone, 23:34 and especially, you know, with my mother. 23:37 And I'll never forget the last time I saw her, 23:42 I was there and my sister-in-law also was there, 23:45 and we were washing her and putting 23:47 and getting her ready for bed and everything and, 23:50 you know, we looked at that each other, 23:51 we could tell that she was getting tired. 23:54 And... 23:58 When I put her to bed and she did have those moments 24:02 that she would be clear. 24:04 Those moments. 24:06 One time, I'm gonna step back, 24:08 but one time they brought her to Detroit. 24:11 And my dad wanted to hear the CD that I was working on. 24:16 And so there was a particular song that he wanted to hear. 24:20 And it was funny, she was sitting there 24:22 and I couldn't find the song And she said Joanne, 24:25 would you hurry if you found this song, so we can go. 24:29 And so all of us, my brothers, my dad, 24:31 everybody just looked at me like... 24:35 Because I mean so that was a moment, 24:38 but when she heard the song you can tell it just kind of... 24:42 It just relaxed her, it just gave her this calmness. 24:46 And so back to when we were in Chicago, 24:49 the last time I saw her alive. 24:52 We got her ready for bed and she, I got her in bed. 24:56 My sister-in-law gone downstairs 24:58 and I'm tucking her in bed and everything, 24:59 and cut out the light, and my sister, 25:03 she kissed me on the lips. 25:05 And she said I love you. 25:08 And my mother didn't say I love you. 25:11 And I said okay, goodnight. 25:14 And she said, good night, be careful. 25:18 And that was the last time, 25:19 she died two and half weeks later. 25:22 But I really believed that, she knew what she was saying, 25:27 and she knew what she was doing. 25:29 I really believed that 25:31 I know you miss your parents, 25:32 but we as in the body of Christ, 25:35 and being committed. 25:36 See, Joanne and I grew up in this church as children. 25:39 And there is very few of us that are still in this church. 25:44 And when I say the church, the body of Christ, salvation, 25:48 because Jesus is coming. 25:49 Oh, yeah. 25:51 And there is nothing in this world, 25:52 more important than your salvation. 25:55 For you to be lost and to know that there is a Savior. 25:59 And to know that Jesus is coming again, 26:02 and for you to be out in this world doing things 26:05 that's taking you away from Christ. 26:07 You've got to come back while you have time, 26:10 you know, but God called you back home. 26:12 Yes, He did. 26:13 He called you, you came back to Christ. 26:15 You came back to this blessed hope. 26:17 I guess that's what I was waiting for. 26:19 I wanted to hear what was the motivation? 26:21 What brought you back? Yeah. 26:24 Oh, that's another. 26:31 Oh, wow, just, you know what, 26:33 being out there and so much happened. 26:36 So much happened. 26:37 I mean I have guns in my face, I've had 26:40 and I guess just tired of that lifestyle, just tired. 26:44 With the smoking and drinking, all of that? 26:45 Yeah, it's just so much. 26:48 And literally, I've had people, I've had guns in my face. 26:51 I've had... 26:54 Oh, you don't want to know. 26:56 Another program. 26:57 Another program. 26:59 But you know what, and I just think God 27:00 everyday for His grace and His mercy. 27:03 And I ask God to sometimes just remind me of where 27:07 He brought me from, because that gives me 27:10 empathy to work with others. 27:11 Yeah. 27:13 And also want to say that 27:14 my mother was not a bad person at all. 27:17 Say it, say it. At all. 27:18 Say it. 27:19 She was a very loving person, it was just our relationship. 27:22 Yeah. 27:23 But she was not a bad, 27:25 neither one my parents were bad people. 27:26 They were good people, God fearing people. 27:30 But yet, I just thank God every day 27:33 for His grace and His mercy. 27:34 And I just got tired of the lifestyle, tired. 27:37 Well, looks like you want to come back for part three. 27:39 No, no. 27:40 Well, you know, and I'm so glad that you were able to come 27:43 and share that component 27:44 because this gonna save someone. 27:46 Well, listen undying commitment, 27:48 but most of all, let us have 27:50 a undying commitment for Jesus Christ, 27:52 so that we all be saved when He comes. 27:55 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. 27:57 And I just want to say trust in the Lord with all your heart 28:00 just like you did it, Joanne. 28:01 Not on to your own understanding. 28:03 Yes, yes. 28:04 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 28:06 See he does that to me some times. |
Revised 2016-07-18