Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:00:02.60\00:00:04.13
I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:00:04.17\00:00:05.50
And welcome to Making It Work.
00:00:05.53\00:00:07.04
When you think about
someone who's gone the distance
00:00:37.90\00:00:41.30
and then someone who
has a undying commitment,
00:00:41.34\00:00:44.07
and I'm talking
about to parents.
00:00:44.11\00:00:46.47
What does I say you?
00:00:46.51\00:00:50.05
It says that,
00:00:50.08\00:00:51.41
there is a strong commitment
of love, appreciation.
00:00:51.45\00:00:56.52
Appreciation...
00:00:56.55\00:00:57.89
And then, that you're at a point
00:00:57.92\00:01:00.62
where you feel that this
is something you have to do.
00:01:00.66\00:01:02.96
Okay.
00:01:02.99\00:01:04.33
So that bond, it goes
beyond the actual love
00:01:04.36\00:01:06.90
with something
I'm committed to do.
00:01:06.93\00:01:08.26
Yeah, I have to do this.
00:01:08.30\00:01:09.76
Well, you know, today
we have a special guest
00:01:09.80\00:01:11.63
who has comes back.
00:01:11.67\00:01:13.00
She was on a few
weeks ago with us,
00:01:13.03\00:01:15.67
a season before, sorry.
00:01:15.70\00:01:17.67
And she has come
back to tell us part two.
00:01:17.71\00:01:20.84
Now in the previous program,
00:01:20.88\00:01:23.41
Joanne Fuller talked
about her relationship
00:01:23.45\00:01:26.51
going to distance.
00:01:26.55\00:01:27.88
She had lost her father,
00:01:27.92\00:01:29.25
pastor within the Lake
Region Conference again.
00:01:29.28\00:01:32.12
We have several,
several divisions
00:01:32.15\00:01:34.56
in the North
American division itself,
00:01:34.59\00:01:36.99
but the Lake Region Conference
is made up of five states.
00:01:37.03\00:01:40.23
And her father served
as one of the pastors.
00:01:40.26\00:01:42.93
When I was a little
girl growing up in Detroit,
00:01:42.96\00:01:46.13
he was one of our pastors.
00:01:46.17\00:01:48.80
So today, she has come back
to talk about her relationship
00:01:48.84\00:01:52.14
with her mother,
undying commitment.
00:01:52.17\00:01:54.71
Welcome, Joanne Fuller.
00:01:54.74\00:01:56.08
Thank you. Hi, Joanne.
00:01:56.11\00:01:57.45
Thank you for having me back.
00:01:57.48\00:01:58.81
Thank you, you know,
00:01:58.85\00:02:00.18
and if you watch
out previous program,
00:02:00.22\00:02:01.58
Joanne, does my hair.
00:02:01.62\00:02:05.39
You know, she gives
me a different look.
00:02:05.42\00:02:06.82
Thank you, Joanne.
You're so welcome, Arthur.
00:02:06.86\00:02:08.39
You know, you appeared to
"Oh, no you didn't do that",
00:02:08.42\00:02:12.29
did you just do that?
00:02:12.33\00:02:13.66
Why?
00:02:13.70\00:02:15.03
I think that is a
complement. Of course.
00:02:15.06\00:02:16.40
But we want to
recognize him, Joanne,
00:02:16.43\00:02:18.80
but at least I've
changed my hair too much,
00:02:18.83\00:02:20.17
they can't keep up with me.
00:02:20.20\00:02:21.54
That's all right,
keep him on the toe.
00:02:21.57\00:02:22.90
Keep them on their toe.
00:02:22.94\00:02:24.27
That's all right,
keep them on the toes.
00:02:24.31\00:02:25.64
Do I keep you on your toes?
00:02:25.67\00:02:27.01
You keep me on my feet.
00:02:27.04\00:02:28.38
Oh, I will take
that as a complement.
00:02:29.78\00:02:31.65
You know, well, Joanne,
thank you for coming back.
00:02:31.68\00:02:34.35
Thank you.
00:02:34.38\00:02:35.72
And we want to talk
about your undying commitment.
00:02:35.75\00:02:37.39
Want you to tell us the story
00:02:37.42\00:02:38.82
about what you went
through with your mother.
00:02:38.85\00:02:40.96
And at times it was very
tumultuous, is very difficult,
00:02:40.99\00:02:43.89
But you were still committed
to the day she passed away.
00:02:43.93\00:02:47.20
Tell us your story and
tell us why you stay committed?
00:02:47.23\00:02:50.40
So you want me to
start with the Alzheimer's
00:02:50.43\00:02:53.40
or you want me to
start with before?
00:02:53.44\00:02:55.87
Before they laid into it...
00:02:55.90\00:02:57.24
Way before? Yes,
yes as a little girl.
00:02:57.27\00:02:59.81
Oh, my goodness,
well, that was some as you,
00:02:59.84\00:03:04.51
the word you used tumultuous.
00:03:04.55\00:03:05.91
Yes.
00:03:05.95\00:03:08.88
Just the relationship
00:03:08.92\00:03:10.25
was a different
type of relationship.
00:03:10.29\00:03:15.92
To me what, to me
00:03:15.96\00:03:17.29
it was not a typical mother
and daughter relationship.
00:03:17.33\00:03:21.60
I was closer to my
dad than I was to my mom.
00:03:21.63\00:03:25.30
And we just
never saw eye to eye.
00:03:25.33\00:03:30.44
For her I was too independent.
00:03:30.47\00:03:33.11
I asked too many
questions. I was the wild child.
00:03:33.14\00:03:37.35
Well, there has to be a
reason, you know, that was just.
00:03:37.38\00:03:40.85
But that was me, that was me.
00:03:40.88\00:03:42.58
I just wanted to know why?
00:03:42.62\00:03:44.82
I was not the one if you just
tell me don't do it but why?
00:03:44.85\00:03:48.62
There has to be a reason, why?
00:03:48.66\00:03:50.29
So that, I mean, that
really got on to her skin
00:03:50.33\00:03:52.56
and she told me many
times, you are so independent.
00:03:52.59\00:03:55.33
But I thought this how
they were trying to raise me
00:03:55.36\00:03:58.03
especially being the only girl.
00:03:58.07\00:04:00.00
And, you know, my
father was like, well,
00:04:00.04\00:04:02.44
you know, I want you to
get married and everything.
00:04:02.47\00:04:06.01
But I don't want to
ever have to depend on a man
00:04:06.04\00:04:10.75
which is different than
being committed to a man.
00:04:10.78\00:04:13.72
Oh, yes.
00:04:13.75\00:04:15.08
And he
explained that difference.
00:04:15.12\00:04:16.75
You know, and so I was raised
to be kind of independent.
00:04:16.79\00:04:20.79
I was raised not to
take you have a car.
00:04:20.82\00:04:23.46
I was raised to...
00:04:23.49\00:04:24.99
I've worked with him
in his carpentry business.
00:04:25.03\00:04:27.76
So I know how to paint, I
know how to lay a wood floor,
00:04:27.80\00:04:30.33
I know how to lay tile, I
know how to do all of that,
00:04:30.37\00:04:35.10
because he taught me.
00:04:35.14\00:04:36.47
Yes.
00:04:36.50\00:04:37.84
Well, with my mom, who...
00:04:37.87\00:04:40.31
I don't know if she
wanted a prissy girl
00:04:40.34\00:04:42.31
or because I wasn't
prissy when I was younger.
00:04:42.34\00:04:45.15
You know, I was out
there playing football
00:04:45.18\00:04:46.85
with the boys in
the neighborhood,
00:04:46.88\00:04:49.18
and basketball, and
softball, and fighting,
00:04:49.22\00:04:54.76
fighting my brother's fights...
00:04:54.79\00:04:56.12
Okay, okay.
00:04:56.16\00:04:57.49
You know,
although my oldest brother
00:04:57.53\00:04:58.86
was five years older than I,
00:04:58.89\00:05:00.23
I was the one that was
taken up for both of us.
00:05:00.26\00:05:01.60
Mercy.
00:05:01.63\00:05:02.96
You know, just crazy. All right.
00:05:03.00\00:05:05.07
I was the...
00:05:05.10\00:05:06.67
Did he give you orders?
00:05:06.70\00:05:08.04
Who did the spanking?
00:05:08.07\00:05:09.40
They both did. Okay.
00:05:09.44\00:05:10.77
They both did.
00:05:10.81\00:05:13.64
She...
00:05:13.68\00:05:15.01
Very, what's another
word besides hothead.
00:05:19.25\00:05:22.78
She was, my dad,
00:05:22.82\00:05:24.52
if he was gonna
a kind of disorder.
00:05:24.55\00:05:27.36
Yeah, my dad was, if
he was going to spank you,
00:05:27.39\00:05:29.99
he would talk to you first,
00:05:30.03\00:05:31.46
put you over his
knee and spank you.
00:05:31.49\00:05:32.83
Yes.
00:05:32.86\00:05:34.20
My mom, you know,
00:05:34.23\00:05:35.56
it was the
extension cord and the...
00:05:35.60\00:05:38.43
I'm going to tell
what Hebrew slave did...
00:05:38.47\00:05:40.57
And they don't try not to cry.
00:05:40.60\00:05:41.94
Yes.
00:05:41.97\00:05:43.77
You remember those days.
00:05:43.81\00:05:45.57
So both your parents
were the disciplinarians,
00:05:45.61\00:05:47.58
and they spanked you, you know.
00:05:47.61\00:05:49.51
Oh, yes. Okay.
00:05:49.54\00:05:50.88
Because I didn't
get a lot of spanking.
00:05:50.91\00:05:52.25
You didn't get
a lot of spanking?
00:05:52.28\00:05:53.62
Didn't get a lot
of spanking. Okay.
00:05:53.65\00:05:54.98
Because I wasn't crazy. Okay.
00:05:55.02\00:05:56.35
I knew he doesn't like that.
00:05:56.38\00:05:57.72
But mom was the
one who was more,
00:05:57.75\00:05:59.32
she was the
more stricter parent?
00:05:59.35\00:06:02.22
Yes, she was
the stricter parent.
00:06:02.26\00:06:03.59
Yes.
00:06:03.63\00:06:04.96
I couldn't go a lot of places,
00:06:04.99\00:06:09.13
I couldn't spend the night
over anyone's house, you know,
00:06:09.16\00:06:11.57
even if they were like
slumber parties I could go,
00:06:11.60\00:06:14.44
but there she would
pick me up at either 12 or 1,
00:06:14.47\00:06:17.54
whatever time she
decide to pick me up,
00:06:17.57\00:06:18.97
and I would had to.
00:06:19.01\00:06:20.34
No spending the night?
00:06:20.38\00:06:21.71
No spending the night,
I love my mother though.
00:06:21.74\00:06:24.78
Yeah.
00:06:24.81\00:06:26.15
I did, my mother's
very funny, very funny.
00:06:26.18\00:06:28.88
Okay.
00:06:28.92\00:06:30.79
Musically talented.
00:06:30.82\00:06:32.25
Just, I still
love that my mother
00:06:32.29\00:06:34.19
just play the piano, and
the pipe organ and I mean,
00:06:34.22\00:06:38.36
just she was so
talented and gifted.
00:06:38.39\00:06:42.50
Gifted as far as,
00:06:42.53\00:06:44.47
I think I got my sewing
stuff from her, you know,
00:06:44.50\00:06:47.30
because she used to sew,
just she was really gifted.
00:06:47.34\00:06:52.37
And I loved her, but we
didn't have the relationship.
00:06:52.41\00:06:55.04
To me that
mothers and daughters had.
00:06:55.08\00:06:56.95
She had it more with
my brothers, I think.
00:06:56.98\00:06:59.71
So what was that you
were looking for from her,
00:06:59.75\00:07:04.19
and I would assume that as you
00:07:04.22\00:07:07.92
matured into
being a young woman,
00:07:07.96\00:07:11.09
that you recognize that
you needed something more
00:07:11.13\00:07:14.86
from your mom, you know,
00:07:14.90\00:07:17.07
what was it that she
was really looking for.
00:07:17.10\00:07:20.77
You know what I think,
I wanted that, you know,
00:07:20.80\00:07:25.27
I have those friends
who have that relationship,
00:07:25.31\00:07:27.64
and they could
talk to their mother
00:07:27.68\00:07:29.38
and the mother and
then they go shopping.
00:07:29.41\00:07:31.95
They just have that...
00:07:31.98\00:07:33.31
I think that's
what I was looking for.
00:07:36.28\00:07:38.12
And the older I
get the more I seek,
00:07:38.15\00:07:39.99
because I didn't
have grandmothers either.
00:07:40.02\00:07:42.59
So I never had that
relationship with women.
00:07:42.62\00:07:46.73
My grandmothers,
00:07:46.76\00:07:48.73
my dad's mother died
when I was about one.
00:07:48.76\00:07:51.47
And my mother's mother
died when I was about eight.
00:07:51.50\00:07:54.50
So I didn't have
grandmothers growing up.
00:07:54.54\00:07:57.34
Okay.
00:07:57.37\00:07:58.71
And then not to have
that relationship, you know,
00:07:58.74\00:08:02.08
I always felt like we
should be close and, you know,
00:08:02.11\00:08:05.38
when I had a accident,
00:08:05.41\00:08:08.25
where in school my
finger got cut off.
00:08:08.28\00:08:12.15
And, you know,
not really supportive,
00:08:12.19\00:08:16.16
not really there, you
know, my dad was there.
00:08:16.19\00:08:22.50
My aunt was
there, her baby sister
00:08:22.53\00:08:24.53
but wasn't there just...
00:08:24.57\00:08:26.57
She didn't show up.
00:08:26.60\00:08:28.40
No, I remembered
talk to her on the phone,
00:08:28.44\00:08:30.21
and she was
fussing because it happen
00:08:30.24\00:08:32.71
and what were you doing
instead of being, you know,
00:08:32.74\00:08:36.68
compassionate and I guess
00:08:36.71\00:08:38.41
that's what I was looking
more for is the compassion.
00:08:38.45\00:08:41.42
And when I look back and I think
00:08:41.45\00:08:42.78
that's what I wanted is
that somebody to care for me.
00:08:42.82\00:08:48.26
And I don't feel like I
didn't feel like I had that.
00:08:48.29\00:08:51.59
So after you
recognize that void was there,
00:08:51.63\00:08:55.83
how did that motivates you
00:08:58.97\00:09:01.77
as far as going into adulthood?
00:09:01.80\00:09:06.07
Wow, I thought I moved
out of my parent's home
00:09:06.11\00:09:09.31
when I was 19.
00:09:09.34\00:09:12.35
Because our relation had
really gotten to the point
00:09:12.38\00:09:14.88
where my dad was separating us,
00:09:14.92\00:09:18.35
when came it to arguments
and stuff like that, yeah.
00:09:18.39\00:09:21.19
And so finally, I said okay,
00:09:21.22\00:09:22.86
well, I'm out and
he knew it was time.
00:09:22.89\00:09:25.59
And he told me it was time.
00:09:25.63\00:09:27.33
So he sat down with me,
00:09:27.36\00:09:29.73
and we did budgeting
and all that kind of stuff.
00:09:29.76\00:09:32.13
So I went and got an apartment,
00:09:32.17\00:09:33.80
and from then on
00:09:33.84\00:09:40.31
just kind of just
took it one day at a time.
00:09:40.34\00:09:43.88
Missing that
voice, missing that,
00:09:43.91\00:09:45.91
still missing that relationship.
00:09:45.95\00:09:48.05
And it was funny because
even and after I moved out,
00:09:48.08\00:09:53.69
and I'm just being honest,
00:09:53.72\00:09:55.06
but she was still
trying to control the situation
00:09:55.09\00:09:58.19
in my home, in my apartment.
00:09:58.23\00:10:00.33
In your space? In my space.
00:10:00.36\00:10:02.33
So, you know, having to...
00:10:02.36\00:10:05.27
respectfully say,
okay, now this is my home.
00:10:08.34\00:10:12.57
This is my space.
You say that too hard.
00:10:12.61\00:10:14.88
And you have to call
before you come over.
00:10:14.91\00:10:17.31
And you have to
because, you know,
00:10:17.35\00:10:23.32
and it was hard.
00:10:23.35\00:10:24.69
And it was hard for,
00:10:24.72\00:10:26.52
I know it was hard for
my dad to see that too.
00:10:26.55\00:10:29.39
And then it was
kind of hard for me
00:10:29.42\00:10:30.96
because, and then I as I grew,
00:10:30.99\00:10:34.16
as I matured, I realized
that, that was his wife.
00:10:34.20\00:10:39.47
I felt like at one point
that he should've taken sides.
00:10:39.50\00:10:42.60
But now I realize that,
00:10:42.64\00:10:45.47
I was his daughter
and that was his wife.
00:10:45.51\00:10:48.31
You know, and, you
know, I had to respect that
00:10:48.34\00:10:51.48
even though he was my dad.
00:10:51.51\00:10:55.05
But it was still
there are periods of a time
00:10:55.08\00:10:57.95
when we didn't
talk for a long time.
00:10:57.99\00:10:59.32
Really?
00:10:59.35\00:11:00.69
Oh yeah, for it could
have been six months, a year.
00:11:00.72\00:11:04.69
And part of that was
because of my lifestyle.
00:11:04.73\00:11:07.36
She didn't care
for my lifestyle.
00:11:07.40\00:11:09.36
And, you know,
00:11:09.40\00:11:10.93
I was not perfect I
wasn't in the church always.
00:11:10.97\00:11:14.54
So but she always
had an opinion about it
00:11:14.57\00:11:18.57
but, you know, there were times
when we went head up, head up.
00:11:18.61\00:11:24.31
So, so moving out,
00:11:24.35\00:11:27.38
you also change the
way you were doing things.
00:11:27.42\00:11:30.69
You know, so we're
talking about going out,
00:11:30.72\00:11:34.86
you know, partying.
00:11:34.89\00:11:36.32
Oh, partying.
00:11:36.36\00:11:37.73
Yeah, and drinking, smoking,
00:11:37.76\00:11:41.66
I mean just when I went
out, when I left, I left.
00:11:41.70\00:11:46.80
I left.
00:11:46.84\00:11:48.17
Do you think, is she had
a great impact on the way
00:11:48.20\00:11:51.14
you changed your lifestyle
00:11:51.17\00:11:52.51
being raised in the
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:11:52.54\00:11:54.88
as a Christian to
going to just the opposite
00:11:54.91\00:11:57.91
or was it just
a choice you made?
00:11:57.95\00:12:01.48
I think it was more of a choice.
00:12:01.52\00:12:04.35
I think it was more of my choice
00:12:04.39\00:12:06.49
than her pushing me out there.
00:12:06.52\00:12:10.03
I don't think, I
can't put that on her.
00:12:10.06\00:12:12.83
I think it was
more of my choice.
00:12:12.86\00:12:14.70
What were you looking for?
00:12:14.73\00:12:16.77
I think I was looking
for love, bottom line,
00:12:16.80\00:12:20.14
I was looking for love.
00:12:20.17\00:12:21.50
I was looking for
somebody to love me.
00:12:21.54\00:12:27.44
And I realized that when
my drinking got to the point,
00:12:27.48\00:12:30.85
I was never, I
never got drunk out.
00:12:30.88\00:12:33.88
Like if I was out
clubbing or whatever.
00:12:33.92\00:12:36.12
I can nurse the
drink all night long.
00:12:36.15\00:12:37.49
Okay.
00:12:37.52\00:12:38.85
But I would drink at home.
00:12:38.89\00:12:42.02
By yourself? By myself.
00:12:42.06\00:12:44.23
And I'll never forget one time
I woke up in the next morning,
00:12:44.26\00:12:49.10
and I had a knot on of my head.
00:12:49.13\00:12:50.83
And could not, I did not
know where the knot came from.
00:12:50.87\00:12:54.14
And at that point I
realized okay you know what,
00:12:54.17\00:12:58.37
'cause I mean
like somebody told me
00:12:58.41\00:13:00.24
you could cure yourself.
00:13:00.28\00:13:02.54
I mean live and
knock yourself out,
00:13:02.58\00:13:04.35
and just been there.
00:13:04.38\00:13:06.21
So I realized that
there was some issues
00:13:06.25\00:13:08.92
and I start counseling
and stuff after that point.
00:13:08.95\00:13:13.72
And you stopped drinking?
00:13:13.76\00:13:15.62
No, but it
slowed down whole lot.
00:13:15.66\00:13:18.26
Okay.
00:13:18.29\00:13:19.63
But it slowed down a lot.
00:13:19.66\00:13:21.00
Okay.
00:13:21.03\00:13:22.36
So you don't really blame her.
00:13:22.40\00:13:24.80
I don't.
00:13:24.83\00:13:26.97
And I guess at this
point maybe I did then,
00:13:27.00\00:13:29.50
but at this point, I don't.
00:13:29.54\00:13:32.21
We went through...
00:13:32.24\00:13:35.04
binding of the wounds.
00:13:35.08\00:13:36.41
Yes.
00:13:36.44\00:13:37.78
At Burns, our pastor
Julia severed at that time
00:13:37.81\00:13:40.85
brought that to our church.
00:13:40.88\00:13:42.72
And I can't say thought that
00:13:42.75\00:13:44.45
I did have a lot
of animosity build up.
00:13:44.49\00:13:48.32
And maybe even some hatred.
00:13:48.36\00:13:50.33
And it was to the point that,
00:13:50.36\00:13:53.56
I'll never forget
I was doing a client,
00:13:53.60\00:13:55.53
and she and my dad
had come down to visit.
00:13:55.56\00:13:58.13
And my client say,
00:13:58.17\00:14:00.64
when my mother
walked in the room
00:14:00.67\00:14:02.30
she could feel it risen me.
00:14:02.34\00:14:06.31
She says, she didn't
know what was going on,
00:14:06.34\00:14:08.14
but she sit in my
chair in front of me.
00:14:08.18\00:14:10.98
But she say, she
felt some rise in me.
00:14:11.01\00:14:13.31
And that's how it
always was with us.
00:14:13.35\00:14:15.55
When she would
come into my space,
00:14:15.58\00:14:18.99
I was very uncomfortable.
00:14:19.02\00:14:21.19
I was just, you know,
just on it and just waiting,
00:14:21.22\00:14:24.93
trying to say something.
00:14:24.96\00:14:26.29
Just waiting for, you
know, for something to happen.
00:14:26.33\00:14:29.70
And but as we went
through binding of the wounds.
00:14:29.73\00:14:34.14
It helped me to
realize and like I said,
00:14:34.17\00:14:36.60
some of those
choices were my choices.
00:14:36.64\00:14:38.87
But it also part of that was
that you had to write letters.
00:14:38.91\00:14:43.68
And or even talk to.
00:14:43.71\00:14:47.02
Well at this time, she
had just started into her,
00:14:47.05\00:14:50.19
into the Alzheimer's.
00:14:50.22\00:14:51.85
So I didn't get a
chance to really sit down
00:14:51.89\00:14:53.86
and talk to her.
00:14:53.89\00:14:55.22
Okay.
00:14:55.26\00:14:56.59
So what I did was,
I went to her sister.
00:14:56.62\00:14:58.99
And I told her what I was doing
and what I was going through,
00:14:59.03\00:15:02.56
and this process and
just asked her some questions.
00:15:02.60\00:15:08.00
And she gave me some history.
00:15:08.04\00:15:09.87
Okay.
00:15:09.90\00:15:11.24
On the family, my
mother comes from twelve,
00:15:11.27\00:15:13.81
six boys and six girls.
00:15:13.84\00:15:15.71
And she is I think
she is third oldest.
00:15:15.74\00:15:18.51
And so when she
gave me that history,
00:15:18.55\00:15:21.35
it was like okay, wow.
00:15:21.38\00:15:24.25
Eye opening.
00:15:24.29\00:15:25.62
Very eye opening.
00:15:25.65\00:15:26.99
And it really helped me see
00:15:27.02\00:15:30.99
that this wasn't
just her and that...
00:15:31.03\00:15:36.87
We do things or
sometimes our life
00:15:36.90\00:15:40.54
goes because of
what happen before us.
00:15:40.57\00:15:44.67
And the things
that happened to us.
00:15:44.71\00:15:47.04
And when she started talking
to me about the family history,
00:15:47.08\00:15:53.58
that really gave me
some empathy for my mother.
00:15:53.62\00:15:58.82
And that's when things for
me stared to change towards her,
00:15:58.85\00:16:02.12
because now I
had a understanding.
00:16:02.16\00:16:04.99
And this doesn't, it's not that
00:16:05.03\00:16:06.70
she just after like she hated me
00:16:06.73\00:16:09.23
or didn't like girls.
00:16:09.26\00:16:12.93
This was how she was right.
00:16:12.97\00:16:15.97
Some of the, you know,
00:16:16.00\00:16:18.51
just say with great odds,
00:16:18.54\00:16:20.01
and how they
treated them as children.
00:16:20.04\00:16:22.44
And just one story she said,
00:16:22.48\00:16:24.98
she was telling me that,
00:16:25.01\00:16:27.62
one time they were
sitting on the porch
00:16:27.65\00:16:29.42
and one of our great aunts came,
00:16:29.45\00:16:31.32
couple of our great
aunts came to visit,
00:16:31.35\00:16:33.56
and they said hello.
00:16:33.59\00:16:35.96
Well, I guess everybody
didn't say hello loud enough,
00:16:35.99\00:16:39.03
so they got slapped.
00:16:39.06\00:16:41.26
No.
00:16:41.30\00:16:42.63
So I mean,
that's just one example.
00:16:42.66\00:16:45.27
So it's like wow.
00:16:45.30\00:16:46.80
Okay so this stuff
didn't just start with her.
00:16:46.84\00:16:51.11
It was a history of
things, a history of abuse.
00:16:51.14\00:16:56.85
And that really, really
cause me to really think
00:16:56.88\00:17:00.08
because I really...
00:17:00.12\00:17:03.59
Did not like holding on to that.
00:17:03.62\00:17:06.29
I really didn't, you know,
00:17:06.32\00:17:08.09
I don't like
holding on the grudges.
00:17:08.12\00:17:10.23
I don't like
holding on to the stuff.
00:17:10.26\00:17:11.99
Right.
00:17:12.03\00:17:13.70
And I really thank
God for the efforts,
00:17:13.73\00:17:15.53
for bringing that to
Burns because it helped.
00:17:15.56\00:17:19.37
I know it helped me,
00:17:19.40\00:17:20.74
and I know it will
help some other people.
00:17:20.77\00:17:22.10
But I know that if
it wasn't for that,
00:17:22.14\00:17:23.71
I probably still be
holding on to a lot of this.
00:17:23.74\00:17:26.17
Praise God.
00:17:26.21\00:17:27.58
But that really caused me
to do a lot of soul searching.
00:17:27.61\00:17:32.01
And I'm just
asking God to help me,
00:17:32.05\00:17:36.38
to take it away even
though I couldn't talk to her,
00:17:36.42\00:17:39.22
and couldn't get
some of the answers.
00:17:39.25\00:17:41.26
But just help me,
it helped to take out
00:17:41.29\00:17:43.73
a lot of that
animosity and hatred away.
00:17:43.76\00:17:46.63
When we talk about
our different churches
00:17:46.66\00:17:48.60
in our
Seventh-day Adventist circle.
00:17:48.63\00:17:51.47
Burns
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:17:51.50\00:17:52.97
is where you and I grew
up in Detroit, Michigan.
00:17:53.00\00:17:55.84
And that's where
you had the experience
00:17:55.87\00:17:58.77
of binding the
wounds with Pastor
00:17:58.81\00:18:00.14
and Mrs. Everett, Dr. Everett.
00:18:00.18\00:18:02.48
Let's talk about your son
00:18:02.51\00:18:04.51
and his relation
with his grandmother.
00:18:04.55\00:18:07.28
What was that like for him?
00:18:07.32\00:18:10.25
Well, because
they lived in Detroit,
00:18:10.29\00:18:12.29
I mean we lived in Detroit.
00:18:12.32\00:18:13.69
And I'm sorry they
lived in Chicago it was,
00:18:13.72\00:18:19.39
it was different and...
00:18:19.43\00:18:23.47
It's funny 'cause grandparents
treat their grandchildren
00:18:23.50\00:18:27.14
so much nicer than they treat us
00:18:27.17\00:18:30.31
for something we used
to get in trouble for.
00:18:30.34\00:18:31.94
They let them get away with.
00:18:31.97\00:18:33.31
Just like what?
00:18:33.34\00:18:34.68
So you're saying that,
you know, things that you did,
00:18:34.71\00:18:36.85
you have gotten
whippings sort of punishment,
00:18:36.88\00:18:39.91
but grandchildren, they
get away with everything.
00:18:39.95\00:18:42.38
Oh, yes, oh yes, she
loves her grandchildren.
00:18:42.42\00:18:45.49
She has two grandchildren,
00:18:45.52\00:18:46.96
and she loves her
grandchildren very much.
00:18:46.99\00:18:49.69
Let's know even during that time
00:18:49.72\00:18:51.73
when you noticed that, you know,
00:18:51.76\00:18:53.50
she had a different relationship
00:18:53.53\00:18:55.90
with the grandchildren.
00:18:55.93\00:18:58.17
Did you kind of reach out to her
00:18:58.20\00:19:01.77
or what were you thinking yeah,
00:19:01.80\00:19:03.37
this is the
type of relationship,
00:19:03.41\00:19:05.04
I would have
appreciated, you know.
00:19:05.07\00:19:09.48
You know what maybe but I think
I thought because he was a boy.
00:19:09.51\00:19:13.58
Okay.
00:19:13.62\00:19:14.95
Because I always thought
she had issues with girls.
00:19:14.98\00:19:16.85
And maybe is because it was me.
00:19:16.89\00:19:19.22
But because my mother
also was a foster mother,
00:19:19.25\00:19:21.82
had been foster
mother for years.
00:19:21.86\00:19:23.49
But most of the foster
children that we have we boys.
00:19:23.53\00:19:27.23
So I always thought it
was an issue with girls.
00:19:27.26\00:19:31.53
So maybe because he was a boy,
00:19:31.57\00:19:34.67
you know, but I never
kept him away from them.
00:19:34.70\00:19:39.67
And even we go on cruises
00:19:39.71\00:19:41.84
and Rick, my
husband and I, Rick,
00:19:41.88\00:19:44.45
and they would
come down from Chicago,
00:19:44.48\00:19:47.42
and keep him while we were gone.
00:19:47.45\00:19:49.75
And get him ready for
school and everything.
00:19:49.78\00:19:51.89
So I never tried
to keep them away,
00:19:51.92\00:19:55.72
'cause she really
enjoyed her grandchildren.
00:19:55.76\00:19:58.73
She really enjoyed them.
00:19:58.76\00:20:00.10
Well, how did this
impact you as a mother,
00:20:00.13\00:20:02.50
you know, being
raised by, you know,
00:20:02.53\00:20:05.00
the mother that you
had and her personality
00:20:05.03\00:20:07.64
and raising your own child?
00:20:07.67\00:20:09.77
Well...
00:20:09.80\00:20:11.67
I'm more like my dad
because I'm more laid back.
00:20:11.71\00:20:17.18
Everybody says that, my
mother used to even say that,
00:20:17.21\00:20:19.51
you're just like
your dad, you know,
00:20:19.55\00:20:21.95
but I really made
a conscious effort
00:20:21.98\00:20:24.69
with my side to talk to him.
00:20:24.72\00:20:28.29
And let him talk
to me respectfully,
00:20:28.32\00:20:31.53
but I did let him talk to me.
00:20:31.56\00:20:34.70
He is 21 now, he
will be 22 in July.
00:20:34.73\00:20:36.77
I can't even believe
that, little Ricky, oh, man.
00:20:36.80\00:20:39.87
Yes.
00:20:39.90\00:20:41.40
But I always let him talk to me.
00:20:41.44\00:20:43.87
And it's funny
because, I used to just listen
00:20:43.91\00:20:48.91
and when was in
grade school, high school,
00:20:48.94\00:20:52.71
and I would just
let him talk, talk,
00:20:52.75\00:20:54.45
you know, in the
inside you're like, "What?
00:20:54.48\00:20:56.52
You what?"
00:20:56.55\00:20:57.89
But I would just let him talk,
00:20:57.92\00:20:59.25
I used to tell himself
all the time, all the time.
00:20:59.29\00:21:02.92
But I made a
conscious effort to allow him.
00:21:02.96\00:21:09.43
First of all to be who he is,
00:21:10.50\00:21:12.67
and then to of
course to direct him,
00:21:12.70\00:21:15.24
but also to have
an open communication
00:21:15.27\00:21:17.97
and open relationship with him.
00:21:18.01\00:21:20.24
Do you...
00:21:20.28\00:21:22.38
After binding the
wounds, that program,
00:21:22.41\00:21:26.18
that you participated in Burns.
00:21:26.21\00:21:30.89
Do you see now like people that
may have been in your position,
00:21:30.92\00:21:35.49
families, young
women or young girls
00:21:35.52\00:21:39.13
that may be having difficulties
with their family origin?
00:21:39.16\00:21:44.33
Are you to
drawn towards that or?
00:21:44.37\00:21:46.20
You know, what I
am and it's funny.
00:21:46.23\00:21:48.10
I have a few people now
who are dealing with that,
00:21:48.14\00:21:50.77
who for some reason
always want to talk to me.
00:21:50.81\00:21:55.98
And, you know, and I do share
00:21:56.01\00:21:59.91
my experience
with them and even how
00:21:59.95\00:22:04.75
I had to go within myself,
00:22:04.79\00:22:08.46
and ask God to
help me get over this
00:22:08.49\00:22:12.73
'cause you only have one mother,
00:22:12.76\00:22:14.96
you only have one father.
00:22:15.00\00:22:16.33
That's it.
00:22:16.36\00:22:17.70
That's it.
00:22:17.73\00:22:19.07
And I can't see going
through the rest of my life
00:22:19.10\00:22:21.10
with that built up.
00:22:21.14\00:22:24.14
And if you have the
opportunity to talk to,
00:22:24.17\00:22:27.38
sit down and talk to
them, if they would allow you.
00:22:27.41\00:22:30.95
Now some have tried and,
00:22:30.98\00:22:34.68
you now, they shut them down.
00:22:34.72\00:22:36.55
So that's to me
what you have to do that
00:22:36.58\00:22:41.02
within yourself like I did
00:22:41.06\00:22:42.86
because I
couldn't talk to my mother.
00:22:42.89\00:22:44.23
So I had to go
within and ask God
00:22:44.26\00:22:45.76
to help me get rid of this.
00:22:45.79\00:22:48.20
Get rid of those feelings,
00:22:48.23\00:22:49.56
get rid of that
animosity and that hatred.
00:22:49.60\00:22:52.83
Can we talk
about the Alzheimer's,
00:22:52.87\00:22:54.40
what was that like for
you, and explain to our viewers
00:22:54.44\00:22:59.31
what your mother went through?
00:22:59.34\00:23:03.01
That's a hard
illness to deal with,
00:23:03.04\00:23:08.62
because you see
them leaving you.
00:23:08.65\00:23:11.15
And you see that
they're physically,
00:23:11.19\00:23:14.02
but you see them
they're like in their own world,
00:23:14.06\00:23:18.19
in another world.
00:23:18.23\00:23:19.73
And so as they start
going further and further,
00:23:19.76\00:23:25.13
I say into that world
or into that realm is like
00:23:25.17\00:23:28.10
wow, you know.
00:23:28.14\00:23:32.44
I hate to see that with anyone,
00:23:32.47\00:23:34.64
and especially, you
know, with my mother.
00:23:34.68\00:23:37.35
And I'll never forget
the last time I saw her,
00:23:37.38\00:23:42.25
I was there and my
sister-in-law also was there,
00:23:42.28\00:23:45.39
and we were
washing her and putting
00:23:45.42\00:23:47.22
and getting her ready
for bed and everything and,
00:23:47.26\00:23:50.03
you know, we
looked at that each other,
00:23:50.06\00:23:51.39
we could tell that
she was getting tired.
00:23:51.43\00:23:54.60
And...
00:23:54.63\00:23:58.23
When I put her to bed and
she did have those moments
00:23:58.27\00:24:02.40
that she would be clear.
00:24:02.44\00:24:04.87
Those moments.
00:24:04.91\00:24:06.44
One time, I'm gonna step back,
00:24:06.47\00:24:08.81
but one time they
brought her to Detroit.
00:24:08.84\00:24:11.95
And my dad wanted to hear
the CD that I was working on.
00:24:11.98\00:24:16.25
And so there was a particular
song that he wanted to hear.
00:24:16.28\00:24:20.02
And it was funny,
she was sitting there
00:24:20.06\00:24:22.09
and I couldn't find the
song And she said Joanne,
00:24:22.12\00:24:25.39
would you hurry if you
found this song, so we can go.
00:24:25.43\00:24:29.16
And so all of us,
my brothers, my dad,
00:24:29.20\00:24:31.60
everybody just
looked at me like...
00:24:31.63\00:24:35.17
Because I mean so
that was a moment,
00:24:35.20\00:24:38.87
but when she heard the song
you can tell it just kind of...
00:24:38.91\00:24:42.64
It just relaxed her, it
just gave her this calmness.
00:24:42.68\00:24:46.38
And so back to
when we were in Chicago,
00:24:46.41\00:24:49.92
the last time I saw her alive.
00:24:49.95\00:24:52.72
We got her ready for bed
and she, I got her in bed.
00:24:52.75\00:24:56.32
My sister-in-law gone downstairs
00:24:56.36\00:24:58.26
and I'm tucking her
in bed and everything,
00:24:58.29\00:24:59.86
and cut out the
light, and my sister,
00:24:59.89\00:25:03.43
she kissed me on the lips.
00:25:03.47\00:25:05.63
And she said I love you.
00:25:05.67\00:25:08.17
And my mother
didn't say I love you.
00:25:08.20\00:25:11.87
And I said okay, goodnight.
00:25:11.91\00:25:14.58
And she said,
good night, be careful.
00:25:14.61\00:25:18.01
And that was the last time,
00:25:18.05\00:25:19.45
she died two and
half weeks later.
00:25:19.48\00:25:22.62
But I really believed that,
she knew what she was saying,
00:25:22.65\00:25:27.76
and she knew what she was doing.
00:25:27.79\00:25:29.62
I really believed that
00:25:29.66\00:25:30.99
I know you miss your parents,
00:25:31.03\00:25:32.36
but we as in the body of Christ,
00:25:32.39\00:25:35.46
and being committed.
00:25:35.50\00:25:36.83
See, Joanne and I grew up
in this church as children.
00:25:36.87\00:25:39.90
And there is very few of us
that are still in this church.
00:25:39.93\00:25:44.24
And when I say the church,
the body of Christ, salvation,
00:25:44.27\00:25:48.38
because Jesus is coming.
00:25:48.41\00:25:49.74
Oh, yeah.
00:25:49.78\00:25:51.11
And there is
nothing in this world,
00:25:51.15\00:25:52.65
more important
than your salvation.
00:25:52.68\00:25:55.62
For you to be lost and to
know that there is a Savior.
00:25:55.65\00:25:59.35
And to know that
Jesus is coming again,
00:25:59.39\00:26:02.09
and for you to be out
in this world doing things
00:26:02.12\00:26:05.63
that's taking
you away from Christ.
00:26:05.66\00:26:07.76
You've got to come
back while you have time,
00:26:07.80\00:26:10.47
you know, but God
called you back home.
00:26:10.50\00:26:12.23
Yes, He did.
00:26:12.27\00:26:13.60
He called you, you
came back to Christ.
00:26:13.64\00:26:15.44
You came back to
this blessed hope.
00:26:15.47\00:26:17.21
I guess that's
what I was waiting for.
00:26:17.24\00:26:19.17
I wanted to hear
what was the motivation?
00:26:19.21\00:26:21.84
What brought you back? Yeah.
00:26:21.88\00:26:24.41
Oh, that's another.
00:26:24.45\00:26:27.62
Oh, wow, just, you know what,
00:26:31.42\00:26:33.86
being out there
and so much happened.
00:26:33.89\00:26:36.32
So much happened.
00:26:36.36\00:26:37.69
I mean I have guns
in my face, I've had
00:26:37.73\00:26:40.90
and I guess just tired of
that lifestyle, just tired.
00:26:40.93\00:26:44.00
With the smoking and
drinking, all of that?
00:26:44.03\00:26:45.73
Yeah, it's just so much.
00:26:45.77\00:26:48.17
And literally, I've had people,
I've had guns in my face.
00:26:48.20\00:26:51.77
I've had...
00:26:51.81\00:26:54.74
Oh, you don't want to know.
00:26:54.78\00:26:56.24
Another program.
00:26:56.28\00:26:57.68
Another program.
00:26:57.71\00:26:59.05
But you know what,
and I just think God
00:26:59.08\00:27:00.82
everyday for His
grace and His mercy.
00:27:00.85\00:27:03.28
And I ask God to sometimes
just remind me of where
00:27:03.32\00:27:07.46
He brought me from,
because that gives me
00:27:07.49\00:27:10.46
empathy to work with others.
00:27:10.49\00:27:11.83
Yeah.
00:27:11.86\00:27:13.19
And also want to say that
00:27:13.23\00:27:14.56
my mother was not
a bad person at all.
00:27:14.60\00:27:16.97
Say it, say it. At all.
00:27:17.00\00:27:18.33
Say it.
00:27:18.37\00:27:19.70
She was a very loving person,
it was just our relationship.
00:27:19.73\00:27:22.30
Yeah.
00:27:22.34\00:27:23.67
But she was not a bad,
00:27:23.71\00:27:25.04
neither one my
parents were bad people.
00:27:25.07\00:27:26.61
They were good
people, God fearing people.
00:27:26.64\00:27:30.75
But yet, I just
thank God every day
00:27:30.78\00:27:33.08
for His grace and His mercy.
00:27:33.11\00:27:34.45
And I just got tired
of the lifestyle, tired.
00:27:34.48\00:27:37.49
Well, looks like you want
to come back for part three.
00:27:37.52\00:27:39.19
No, no.
00:27:39.22\00:27:40.62
Well, you know, and I'm so
glad that you were able to come
00:27:40.66\00:27:43.29
and share that component
00:27:43.32\00:27:44.66
because this gonna save someone.
00:27:44.69\00:27:46.46
Well, listen undying commitment,
00:27:46.49\00:27:48.83
but most of all, let us have
00:27:48.86\00:27:50.30
a undying
commitment for Jesus Christ,
00:27:50.33\00:27:52.93
so that we all be
saved when He comes.
00:27:52.97\00:27:55.50
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:27:55.54\00:27:57.04
And I just want to say trust
in the Lord with all your heart
00:27:57.07\00:28:00.58
just like you did it, Joanne.
00:28:00.61\00:28:01.94
Not on to your
own understanding.
00:28:01.98\00:28:03.31
Yes, yes.
00:28:03.35\00:28:04.68
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:28:04.71\00:28:06.92
See he does that
to me some times.
00:28:06.95\00:28:08.85