Hi, I'm Doctor Kim Logan-Nowlin.
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And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to making it work.
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It takes a lot of work
to make marriages work,
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but today's guest
we're talking about
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now accepting the fact
that she's facing divorce.
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She did everything she
could to work things out
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with her husband, he
refused to come to counseling,
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did not want to
move in the direction
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of the healing of the marriage
because of lack of trust
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and for several other
reasons that will be disclosed
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during the interview.
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But Tonya still pressed on
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and continued in her counseling,
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continued to work closely
with us and more than that,
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she gave her
life to Jesus Christ
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during the counseling.
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What a victory?
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A tremendous victory, and
the most important thing is
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that she was
willing to make changes
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to improve her lifestyle.
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Oh, yeah.
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Even though that her spouse
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refused to accept
anything different.
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He wanted to move on.
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His mind was made up. Yes.
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And in that
particular situation,
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once your mind is made up,
you know, it's very unfortunate
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but his desire to
improve the situation
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or the
relationship just dissipated.
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And they met as they were out,
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they were in a
motorcycle club together
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and they were drinking,
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and they were indulging in
a lot of different behaviors.
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And then she recognized,
when she began to change,
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and he no longer wanted to be
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in the same
relationship with her.
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It's difficult when
you see change happening
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and you're like
looking on the outside end,
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and my marriage
is falling apart,
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and I cry out for help.
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Well, one of the things
that was really important
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is that in the
process of the change
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Tonya indicated
that he had some anger...
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Oh, a lot of anger.
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Because he wanted
her to change rapidly.
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He didn't want it
to be a long process,
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and unfortunately, when we
talk about changing behavior
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is sometimes can
be a process involved.
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Oh, it takes time. Takes time.
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It didn't happen overnight
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and it's not going
to change overnight.
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Well, join as we interview
Tonya searching for peace.
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Peace that passes
all understanding.
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Let's see the
interview with Tonya.
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Tonya, I love it.
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You're here at Kim
Logan Communication,
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and you've been
with us for a while now.
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Yes.
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There's a transformation
that, that I've noticed
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from the time that you started
and where you are now, I mean,
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it's profound because
I see a lot of changes
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going on in your life.
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Give me some insight about
what brought you to this point?
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When I came in, I was
broken, I felt defeated,
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and was probably on the
verge of doing something
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I couldn't have taken back.
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I went through a recent divorce
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or separation I
should say at that time.
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Okay.
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And so you were dealing with
issues within your marriage?
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That was one factor but yes,
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that was the
biggest one at that time.
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But for several years,
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I've been getting knocked
down with hard, hard trials
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year after year after year.
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Okay. I just had a...
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When you say knocked
down, so I'm on the impression
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you're talking about
different relationships?
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Not different relationships,
different circumstances
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in my life that
caused great pain.
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Okay.
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I can go into that.
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In 2010, I met
my now ex husband.
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We married in 2011.
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He became over
the road truck driver
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so the separation put
tension on the marriage.
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2012, I went in
for a simple surgery
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and for 11 months after
that I had to fight for my life,
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and doctor said, I
would die on many occasions.
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Really?
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Finally got
better around April, May,
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around that time, my
mother fell deftly ill.
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I buried her in August of 2013.
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Oh, I'm sorry to
hear that. Thank you.
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Try to get over that,
still struggling in divorce
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and in April of 2014, my
mother-in-law at the time
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was diagnosed
with breast cancer.
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She lived for one
month, she died in May
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from
complications from chemotherapy.
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And in August
my husband left me.
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He made a decision that
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he didn't want to
be married anymore.
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Right. Okay.
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Had you had any, I
guess pre-understanding
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or something to
give you the insight that
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the relationship was
not going to work anymore?
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I know on my behalf,
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the year prior to I
was considering divorce,
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but being that I was doing
everything to be spiritual,
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want to be a Christian.
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I really had no
reason to leave him
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because he hadn't
done anything to, you know,
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step out on the marriage.
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So I tried, I prayed,
I started going to church
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and just no matter how
much I tried, you know,
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you have to have two
people in the same place.
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Okay.
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So you started going to church
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or you wasn't really
participating in Christianity
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or anything like
that at that point?
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No, I've always gone
to church, was I obedient?
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No.
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Did I go on a regular basis? No.
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But, you know, in
all of my situations
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I know that's where
my strength come from,
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that's the only thing that
have kept me on a good path
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even with all of my mess-ups.
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Okay.
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That's
understandable, we all mess up.
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Give me some insight about
your family origin, background?
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Born in Detroit,
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mother and
father left Louisiana,
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came to Michigan,
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and we moved back
to Louisiana in '79.
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All of my family is
from Louisiana, Mississippi.
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So that's my Southern
heritage that I'm so proud of.
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But I guess the
proudness kind of ends there.
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My mother was a alcoholic,
father is still a alcoholic,
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he has his bouts with narcotics,
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you know, from occasions
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but I take care of
him, he lives with me.
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Okay.
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We moved to Louisiana.
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I know that mind has
a way of doing things,
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I don't remember
a lot before '79.
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I guess tyranny all my life,
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I started being
raped by my father's son
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and it had to be '79 or '80.
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Your father's son, you
guys didn't have the same mom?
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No. Okay.
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So around '79 and '80?
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We moved in '79, so
we weren't there alone,
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he was living with us.
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And he began raping
me, you know, as soon as,
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that I could remember
as soon as we got there.
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Oh, man, that's a tragedy.
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Yes, it was.
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So, I mean, how
did you deal with that?
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Violence. Okay.
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I heard people say that I
kind of changed overnight.
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They didn't understand it.
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Supposedly, I was
this sweet young girl
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but I just don't
remember, I see pictures,
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I look happy, I appeared,
but I couldn't tell you
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where I took those
pictures or anything like that.
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So you were angry
at that point though?
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Obviously. Okay. And did you...
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Had you talked
to anybody about it?
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Did you try to
get any type of help?
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No, in the south
what happens in your house
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stays in your house.
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You would think
that a parent would know,
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but unfortunately
my mother was dealing
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with her own demons.
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She had been raped as a kid.
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You know, so
unfortunately, even if she knew
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she didn't know
what to do to help.
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So I don't think it's a...
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No surprise that
she had three daughters
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and all of us were raped.
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All three of you?
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Oh, my goodness,
that's a tragedy.
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Yes.
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So how did you go on, I mean,
after that point, you know.
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I know you talked
about violence, I mean,
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so is that the way you
dealt with all the issues
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when you get
stressed or anything?
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Pretty much, you didn't
even have to do anything to me
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for me to fight, and
I was a small person,
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but unfortunately I
was a little fierce.
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I took up
karate, I took up boxing,
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and the people
who after my brother,
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they introduced me to alcohol,
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because I got my first
and only DUI at the age of 11.
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Really?
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Drinking and driving.
You actually had a DUI?
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Arrested, my cousin
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that had been
molesting me was in
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'cause he was
supposed to be watching us
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when my mother had surgery,
she was in the hospital.
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So he took it upon himself
to allow me to skip school,
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and buy us some alcohol,
and we drove around town
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and he actually fell asleep
with his hands in my pants,
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and I got pulled over,
I mean, I was evidently,
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you know, speeding and...
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We were arrested
taken to a sheriff's jail
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and his mother
came, and bailed us out,
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and just asked me
not to say anything.
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That must have
been heavy, you know,
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as far as not being
able to communicate about it,
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having those feelings, you know.
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So how long did you stay there,
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and how long did
this continue to go on?
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Up until almost
a ripe age of 18,
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I would have said maybe
around 17 at that point,
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I really started
considering myself dating
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even though I had
been sexually active
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from being on all
out but it was usually me
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and mostly family
members taking advantage of me.
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He introduced me to
marijuana, taken valiums,
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and that was their
control, it was easier,
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you know, for them that way.
00:09:40.84\00:09:43.48
So tell me when you moved
to Detroit back as an adult,
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you know, what happened?
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Well, actually I
left Louisiana in '89,
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I was pregnant
with my oldest son
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and I stayed in
Atlanta until '95.
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Okay.
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And I came back to Michigan
which is where I was born,
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but I had gotten in a
bad situation in Louisiana
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where I had assaulted a
woman while I was pregnant,
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and I couldn't leave
until I had my court day.
00:10:06.67\00:10:09.14
So from then I went to Georgia
00:10:09.17\00:10:12.37
where I had, you
know, with two sons.
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Jail moment after jail moment,
00:10:15.58\00:10:17.11
fighting after
fighting, assaulting.
00:10:17.15\00:10:19.21
Still angry? Very.
00:10:19.25\00:10:21.08
Okay, you know, then
you got back to Michigan?
00:10:21.12\00:10:24.12
I got back to Michigan.
00:10:24.15\00:10:26.05
I brought one son with me
at the time and, you know,
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attempted to do
everything right,
00:10:29.06\00:10:30.39
got back in school, and I
was in college in Georgia,
00:10:30.43\00:10:32.86
but I dropped out,
it was kind of hard
00:10:32.89\00:10:34.76
going to school pregnant.
00:10:34.80\00:10:36.13
And so I came to
Michigan started working,
00:10:36.16\00:10:40.14
got back in school
00:10:40.17\00:10:42.00
but that just wasn't enough
I guess to stop the behavior.
00:10:42.04\00:10:45.64
I still continued on with
the many men in relationships.
00:10:45.67\00:10:48.61
And my youngest son's father
we married didn't last long.
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Many jail visits
during that relationship,
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he was supposed to be a pastor,
00:10:58.59\00:11:00.42
and I did
everything I thought was right
00:11:00.46\00:11:02.19
but just never
really addressed me.
00:11:02.22\00:11:04.56
Was he in the
church, I mean, you say...
00:11:04.59\00:11:06.46
Technically, he was
supposed to be a minister but...
00:11:06.49\00:11:08.10
Okay, okay.
00:11:08.13\00:11:09.46
Yeah.
00:11:09.50\00:11:11.17
Motorcycles? Mm-hmm.
00:11:11.20\00:11:12.83
Tell me about that?
00:11:12.87\00:11:14.20
Love it. Okay.
00:11:14.24\00:11:15.57
That's my new
favorite thing to do.
00:11:15.60\00:11:17.47
I've been riding since 2003,
00:11:17.51\00:11:19.77
and I actually had a
scooter when I was 11
00:11:19.81\00:11:22.04
and that was the thing
that the cousin was doing
00:11:22.08\00:11:24.51
to take me to go check
on my scooter back then.
00:11:24.55\00:11:26.31
So I've been on two
wheels for a long time
00:11:26.35\00:11:28.15
but it's my free
time, it's my open time.
00:11:28.18\00:11:31.15
I love to do long drives.
00:11:31.19\00:11:32.52
You still ride a lot? Oh, yes.
00:11:32.55\00:11:33.89
You know, and also
with the motorcycle
00:11:33.92\00:11:38.13
you get involved
with organization
00:11:38.16\00:11:41.06
apparently, right?
00:11:41.10\00:11:42.43
Yes, yes, looking for a family
00:11:42.46\00:11:45.20
being here pretty much alone,
00:11:45.23\00:11:46.57
even though my dad was
here, my sons were here
00:11:46.60\00:11:48.57
but I didn't have
like any real friends.
00:11:48.60\00:11:51.17
And I think because of my past,
00:11:51.21\00:11:52.54
I kind of gravitate towards men.
00:11:52.57\00:11:54.71
You know, I worked with odd men,
00:11:54.74\00:11:56.28
there may be 10 women
out of probably 20,000 men,
00:11:56.31\00:11:59.95
that's just my comfort zone.
00:11:59.98\00:12:01.32
And your job is? And my job?
00:12:01.35\00:12:02.75
A truck driver. Truck driver.
00:12:02.78\00:12:04.12
Hauling cars, yes. Okay.
00:12:04.15\00:12:05.49
But with the
motorcycle, I met some people
00:12:05.52\00:12:07.32
and it was
supposed to be family,
00:12:07.36\00:12:08.92
the husbands and the
wives and the children,
00:12:08.96\00:12:10.93
and it didn't
take me long to realize
00:12:10.96\00:12:12.93
that wasn't the case.
00:12:12.96\00:12:14.70
But one night we all went
out and we do drink, you know,
00:12:14.73\00:12:19.27
to oblivion as I
would describe it,
00:12:19.30\00:12:21.54
and went out and in
my mind we are family
00:12:21.57\00:12:24.74
so there should
be no fraternizing,
00:12:24.77\00:12:26.37
no sexing each other up
and they followed me home.
00:12:26.41\00:12:30.35
That was a rule
with a single lady
00:12:30.38\00:12:31.98
somebody had to
make sure she get home.
00:12:32.01\00:12:33.82
And one of the club guys
asked me to use my restroom,
00:12:33.85\00:12:36.75
I don't remember
this unfortunately.
00:12:36.79\00:12:39.72
And I went in evidently
let him use the restroom
00:12:39.75\00:12:42.52
and I began getting phone
calls the next day saying,
00:12:42.56\00:12:44.96
"What's going on with you?
00:12:44.99\00:12:46.33
That's not like you."
00:12:46.36\00:12:48.00
And the guy came
out and told me that
00:12:48.03\00:12:49.93
we've had this
wonderful five minutes of sex
00:12:49.96\00:12:52.83
and that's how long I
guess he was in the house
00:12:52.87\00:12:55.20
and it took me about two
months before I ran into him
00:12:55.24\00:12:58.87
I guess for lack of better words
00:12:58.91\00:13:00.24
and I ended up in jail.
00:13:00.28\00:13:02.24
You were in jail because?
00:13:02.28\00:13:05.28
It was altercation. Okay.
00:13:05.31\00:13:06.88
I destroyed his motorcycle
00:13:06.92\00:13:08.35
along with a
couple other people,
00:13:08.38\00:13:09.98
trying to get to him.
00:13:10.02\00:13:12.15
Luckily I had on high heels,
I couldn't catch him per se
00:13:12.19\00:13:14.66
but I got into a lot of trouble.
00:13:14.69\00:13:17.33
Okay. Yeah.
00:13:17.36\00:13:18.76
So you went to jail
and that was the last time
00:13:18.79\00:13:20.43
you were in jail?
00:13:20.46\00:13:21.80
Yes. Okay, you know.
00:13:21.83\00:13:24.20
So then you met your
husband eventually somewhere
00:13:24.23\00:13:26.84
down the line and then,
now you and your husband
00:13:26.87\00:13:30.27
are officially
divorced, is that...
00:13:30.31\00:13:31.67
Yes.
00:13:31.71\00:13:33.04
It's almost two weeks. Okay.
00:13:33.07\00:13:34.51
So the marriage
only lasted, what?
00:13:34.54\00:13:36.44
We married in 2011
00:13:36.48\00:13:38.08
and the beginning of
this year we were divorced.
00:13:38.11\00:13:40.28
I mean, there was no way
of reconciling that situation?
00:13:40.32\00:13:42.85
I hoped, I wished,
I prayed, I begged,
00:13:42.88\00:13:46.92
but somebody was not on
the same path spiritually,
00:13:46.96\00:13:50.56
actually they all think I
have literally lost my mind
00:13:50.59\00:13:53.83
because I'm so focused on God
00:13:53.86\00:13:56.30
and that's what's keeping
me, you know, where I am now.
00:13:56.33\00:13:59.33
Okay, you've gone
through all that chaos,
00:13:59.37\00:14:03.27
all that craziness
00:14:03.30\00:14:05.01
and here you are,
you're sitting up here
00:14:05.04\00:14:06.74
and you're
talking to me about God.
00:14:06.78\00:14:08.31
Yes.
00:14:08.34\00:14:09.68
You know, so
what's the motivation?
00:14:09.71\00:14:11.18
What got you to this point?
00:14:11.21\00:14:12.65
And why do you feel that
your relationship with him
00:14:12.68\00:14:15.95
is so demanding or important?
00:14:15.98\00:14:19.95
One I believe, I was chosen.
I was brought up in the church.
00:14:19.99\00:14:22.62
My mother's
mother was a minister.
00:14:22.66\00:14:24.79
My mother parted to her
past and she became a minister.
00:14:24.83\00:14:27.76
I just believe it's in my DNA,
I know what I'm supposed to do,
00:14:27.80\00:14:31.33
unfortunately, I
do like most people
00:14:31.37\00:14:33.50
and I get away from
what I know is right.
00:14:33.54\00:14:36.30
Then every time
when I come back,
00:14:36.34\00:14:37.74
the pain is greater and greater.
00:14:37.77\00:14:40.21
And I just made
up my mind this time
00:14:40.24\00:14:42.08
that I don't want to
have to experience that
00:14:42.11\00:14:44.31
that I can't control myself
00:14:44.35\00:14:45.88
going through
these ups and downs.
00:14:45.91\00:14:48.38
All of my so-called
friends, they don't deal with me
00:14:48.42\00:14:50.39
and that's okay.
00:14:50.42\00:14:52.42
So called people who said
they love you, we're a family.
00:14:52.45\00:14:54.76
They don't deal
with me, but that's okay.
00:14:54.79\00:14:57.19
I've never felt so
low at the same time being
00:14:57.23\00:15:00.80
so alone but that's okay.
00:15:00.83\00:15:02.50
Okay. Yeah, that's okay.
00:15:02.53\00:15:04.10
Alcohol, no more alcohol?
00:15:04.13\00:15:05.47
Had no drinking,
to say I won't go out
00:15:05.50\00:15:07.77
and hang out with my friends,
I'm not going to say that
00:15:07.80\00:15:09.77
'cause I do have some people
00:15:09.80\00:15:11.34
that we have some
things in common but no.
00:15:11.37\00:15:14.44
I brought back
alcohol from Casa Mill
00:15:14.48\00:15:17.18
and it's still
sealed in, you know,
00:15:17.21\00:15:19.01
that would have
never happened in my past.
00:15:19.05\00:15:21.18
But I'm okay with not drinking,
I know that was my issue.
00:15:21.22\00:15:25.22
You just
completely... You just stopped?
00:15:25.25\00:15:26.65
I have to. I have to.
00:15:26.69\00:15:28.66
You have no
assistance, no recovery centers
00:15:28.69\00:15:31.29
or not AA or anything, AA,
00:15:31.33\00:15:35.00
Alcohol
Anonymous 12 step program?
00:15:35.03\00:15:37.07
No. You just stopped?
00:15:37.10\00:15:38.43
I had to. It was bad on my life.
00:15:38.47\00:15:40.67
Okay.
00:15:40.70\00:15:42.24
You came to the realization that
00:15:42.27\00:15:44.24
if you didn't
stop you would die.
00:15:44.27\00:15:47.44
If nothing else, I
probably would have
00:15:47.48\00:15:48.81
killed somebody else.
00:15:48.84\00:15:50.18
Okay, okay.
00:15:50.21\00:15:51.85
That was how deep
my pain was. Okay.
00:15:51.88\00:15:54.32
And alcohol was
my backbone, I guess,
00:15:54.35\00:15:57.82
not that I really
needed one with my past
00:15:57.85\00:15:59.82
but with some of the
things that I was going through,
00:15:59.85\00:16:02.02
I was using that to guide me.
00:16:02.06\00:16:04.63
So how did your
children, you know,
00:16:04.66\00:16:07.26
see you as you were
going through this turmoil?
00:16:07.30\00:16:10.03
Did they ever talk to
you about it, especially now,
00:16:10.07\00:16:12.47
since you're not involved
in that type of lifestyle?
00:16:12.50\00:16:14.74
You know what?
00:16:14.77\00:16:16.10
I really protected my children
00:16:16.14\00:16:17.47
to say they
didn't witness anything
00:16:17.51\00:16:19.27
but I'll guarantee
you none of them know
00:16:19.31\00:16:20.91
outside of maybe
family members talking.
00:16:20.94\00:16:23.31
They were not aware
that was I was in jail
00:16:23.35\00:16:24.68
even when I was in jail.
00:16:24.71\00:16:26.05
Really? I've never done stance.
00:16:26.08\00:16:27.42
I'm talking
about maybe the weekend
00:16:27.45\00:16:29.02
but going through bouts
with court and courting,
00:16:29.05\00:16:32.02
and unfortunately my anger
00:16:32.05\00:16:33.62
I went to a stance
with my oldest son.
00:16:33.66\00:16:36.32
We had an altercation
he's a really big guy,
00:16:36.36\00:16:39.19
you know, I take
full responsibility for it
00:16:39.23\00:16:41.36
but I was in the
system with him for years
00:16:41.40\00:16:43.53
because I guess I'm
back about, I assaulted him.
00:16:43.57\00:16:48.04
I felt, you know, he
was doing unfortunately
00:16:48.07\00:16:50.27
what teenagers do when
me with my background is,
00:16:50.31\00:16:53.41
"No, you don't stand
up to me" and you know
00:16:53.44\00:16:55.84
it caused me to
really go overboard with him.
00:16:55.88\00:16:58.05
Okay.
00:16:58.08\00:16:59.41
And, you know, I
regret that to the day I die,
00:16:59.45\00:17:01.32
but we have a
great relationship.
00:17:01.35\00:17:04.02
But, you know, my
path that I was on,
00:17:04.05\00:17:06.32
it was either me or
them, I guess is the best way,
00:17:06.35\00:17:08.92
and I'm talking about
people coming into my presence
00:17:08.96\00:17:12.49
that could have been harmed.
00:17:12.53\00:17:13.86
So the relationship is good
now between you and your son?
00:17:13.90\00:17:17.00
Oh, with all of
my sons, it's good.
00:17:17.03\00:17:18.80
Now, you always have one
you feel that will call you
00:17:18.83\00:17:20.80
a little more
often but the oldest son,
00:17:20.84\00:17:23.10
he's really in contact
with the now ex-husband,
00:17:23.14\00:17:25.81
so I think he kind of, you know,
00:17:25.84\00:17:27.38
I don't know if he feel alliance
00:17:27.41\00:17:29.31
but you know I have
no problem with that.
00:17:29.34\00:17:31.58
Okay.
00:17:31.61\00:17:32.95
So tell me when I
say family to you,
00:17:32.98\00:17:36.28
what do you think about?
00:17:36.32\00:17:37.65
God. Okay.
00:17:37.69\00:17:39.02
So God is your family?
00:17:39.05\00:17:40.39
Yes. Explain?
00:17:40.42\00:17:41.76
That's the only
place I found my peace.
00:17:41.79\00:17:44.16
When I go to
family, nothing there.
00:17:44.19\00:17:46.53
Okay.
00:17:46.56\00:17:47.90
Once again people that knew me,
00:17:47.93\00:17:50.47
I even had a young lady
who tell me, you don't need
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.47
to be going to
church like the way you do,
00:17:52.50\00:17:53.97
you just need to be
the person that you were,
00:17:54.00\00:17:55.57
that's who your
husband fell in love with.
00:17:55.60\00:17:57.97
And it took
everything in me not to tell,
00:17:58.01\00:17:59.54
if I stayed with
the person that I was,
00:17:59.57\00:18:00.91
he will be dead
because I was that hurt,
00:18:00.94\00:18:03.28
I feel that betrayed.
00:18:03.31\00:18:04.88
So people would never know me.
00:18:04.91\00:18:07.52
I've tried to get that
young lady to go to church,
00:18:07.55\00:18:09.52
but she is in her
own battle with the devil
00:18:09.55\00:18:11.89
as I say it and, you know,
00:18:11.92\00:18:13.79
they just think I've
lost it and that's okay.
00:18:13.82\00:18:16.59
I'm going to keep
doing what I'm doing
00:18:16.62\00:18:17.99
because this is working for me.
00:18:18.03\00:18:19.43
So that anger
and that deep anger
00:18:19.46\00:18:22.80
that you had, you know,
right now you don't have it?
00:18:22.83\00:18:25.43
Mm-hmm. And I'm tested
daily. I pray and I mean that...
00:18:25.47\00:18:28.57
How are you? How?
00:18:28.60\00:18:30.11
Things that normally
would have just set me off
00:18:30.14\00:18:32.74
and unfortunately,
it didn't take much
00:18:32.77\00:18:34.44
and that's not
good being a female
00:18:34.48\00:18:36.04
but I started a new
job just for the one
00:18:36.08\00:18:38.78
I'm tired of being outside
and I get confronted daily.
00:18:38.81\00:18:44.02
I'm not a thief or, you
know, I'm a very upfront person,
00:18:44.05\00:18:48.69
I always have somebody
accusing me of something
00:18:48.72\00:18:51.19
or, you know,
making it seem like
00:18:51.23\00:18:53.13
I'm doing
something against somebody.
00:18:53.16\00:18:55.26
And time before it would been,
00:18:55.30\00:18:58.80
would have given me cause
to, you know, attack somebody.
00:18:58.83\00:19:02.70
So now you're not at that point?
00:19:02.74\00:19:05.21
And people that knew
I would cuss and fuss,
00:19:05.24\00:19:07.64
they really think
I have lost my mind
00:19:07.68\00:19:09.44
because I don't do it.
00:19:09.48\00:19:11.15
So what's your plans for you
00:19:11.18\00:19:13.72
in your way of walking
now and way of thinking?
00:19:13.75\00:19:17.59
Straight. Okay.
00:19:17.62\00:19:19.82
Peaceful.
00:19:19.85\00:19:21.86
I know, I still
have some ways to go
00:19:21.89\00:19:23.79
because I find
myself sometime like,
00:19:23.83\00:19:25.93
"Okay, five years ago..."
00:19:25.96\00:19:28.46
Now when I can stop saying that,
00:19:28.50\00:19:30.10
I know I have arrived
but I do find myself just,
00:19:30.13\00:19:34.14
you know, saying thank God.
00:19:34.17\00:19:35.50
Okay.
00:19:35.54\00:19:36.87
So now you're at a
point where you actually trust
00:19:36.91\00:19:41.78
in the Lord, Proverbs 3:5-6,
00:19:41.81\00:19:45.28
"Trust in the Lord
with all your heart
00:19:45.31\00:19:46.65
and lean not on
our own understanding."
00:19:46.68\00:19:48.62
I'm getting from you that
you actually really feel this.
00:19:48.65\00:19:51.95
This is something
that's really important to you?
00:19:51.99\00:19:54.06
I've always felt that
I've never lived it...
00:19:54.09\00:19:56.22
Okay. Fully.
00:19:56.26\00:19:57.59
But now I feel like
I have no other choice.
00:19:57.63\00:19:59.69
Oh, okay.
00:19:59.73\00:20:01.06
Even if I die now,
I have no doubt that
00:20:01.10\00:20:03.47
I've turned a corner and
I've done everything right.
00:20:03.50\00:20:06.60
So what could
you say to somebody
00:20:06.63\00:20:09.10
that may have
experienced something
00:20:09.14\00:20:10.64
or be into that
type of lifestyle
00:20:10.67\00:20:13.21
that you have had
struggled with for so long?
00:20:13.24\00:20:16.71
Just close your eyes and imagine
00:20:16.75\00:20:18.58
you walking a few of those steps
00:20:18.61\00:20:20.55
that I've done
and look at me now.
00:20:20.58\00:20:23.02
I think I'm just God's witness
of what success looks like.
00:20:23.05\00:20:26.42
Not money, but to be
able to overcome all of that
00:20:26.45\00:20:30.36
and still have
positive thoughts,
00:20:30.39\00:20:33.40
this is great for me.
00:20:33.43\00:20:35.40
Okay, as
motivation? Almost, definitely.
00:20:35.43\00:20:37.83
You know, you feel
like you won something?
00:20:37.87\00:20:40.77
Do you feel like
celebrating and excited?
00:20:40.80\00:20:42.50
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
00:20:42.54\00:20:44.47
I mean, I get,
I'm getting excited
00:20:44.51\00:20:46.27
just thinking about
where you came from,
00:20:46.31\00:20:49.14
and where you are
now, and your desire,
00:20:49.18\00:20:51.88
and your motivation to maintain
this lifestyle, you know?
00:20:51.91\00:20:56.25
I feel like I have no choice.
00:20:56.28\00:20:57.62
I have one son left to
get out, go to college,
00:20:57.65\00:21:01.02
and I thought I
was living before
00:21:01.06\00:21:03.86
but I am ready to live now.
00:21:03.89\00:21:06.03
I'm ready to live a good life.
00:21:06.06\00:21:07.63
Wow, yeah.
00:21:07.66\00:21:09.00
You just came back
from a cruise as we know?
00:21:09.03\00:21:10.57
Yes, and it was wonderful.
00:21:10.60\00:21:11.93
And before that you were on...
00:21:11.97\00:21:13.94
Went on a
vacation with some friends,
00:21:13.97\00:21:15.87
is that correct?
00:21:15.90\00:21:17.34
I came to see
you all in Alabama.
00:21:17.37\00:21:20.01
Alabama, that's right.
00:21:20.04\00:21:21.38
Yes, for the
funeral unfortunately but...
00:21:21.41\00:21:22.74
You drove all
the way down there?
00:21:22.78\00:21:24.11
Yeah. That was
a good experience.
00:21:24.15\00:21:25.48
Yea, so the cruise I
drove to New Orleans, you know,
00:21:25.51\00:21:27.42
was out with my
friend who had got married
00:21:27.45\00:21:29.88
and then we want on
the cruise after that.
00:21:29.92\00:21:31.89
But I was by
myself and I loved it.
00:21:31.92\00:21:34.56
Because you like the
road, you like to travel?
00:21:34.59\00:21:36.06
Oh, I love the travel.
00:21:36.09\00:21:38.09
I'm on my way to Atlanta now
with the niece that I've come
00:21:38.13\00:21:40.50
and making
contact with for years,
00:21:40.53\00:21:42.56
so I'm gonna see her
in a couple of weeks.
00:21:42.60\00:21:44.17
Excellent, excellent.
00:21:44.20\00:21:45.73
So we have one minute
left, is there anything
00:21:45.77\00:21:49.17
that you would like
to say that, you know,
00:21:49.20\00:21:51.31
you would like to leave
with listening audience?
00:21:51.34\00:21:54.81
Everybody won't turn towards God
00:21:54.84\00:21:56.68
if you were not
brought up that way.
00:21:56.71\00:21:58.58
But just know that
you can overcome it,
00:21:58.61\00:22:02.38
you can get through it,
00:22:02.42\00:22:03.75
you have to find
people who believe in you,
00:22:03.79\00:22:05.92
anybody that says
anything negative,
00:22:05.95\00:22:07.92
you have to remove
those people from your life.
00:22:07.96\00:22:09.82
Mm-hmm.
00:22:09.86\00:22:11.19
Because they
cannot do anything for you
00:22:11.23\00:22:12.56
and if they tell
you anything negative,
00:22:12.59\00:22:13.93
they are not for you.
00:22:13.96\00:22:15.30
They want to see
you in the same position
00:22:15.33\00:22:16.67
that you were,
00:22:16.70\00:22:18.23
and you have to be strong enough
00:22:18.27\00:22:19.60
not to stay there.
00:22:19.63\00:22:21.00
That's powerful. Thank you.
00:22:21.04\00:22:22.40
Thank you for being
here, we appreciate it.
00:22:22.44\00:22:24.07
Thank you.
00:22:24.11\00:22:25.44
You know, you've
done an excellent job.
00:22:25.47\00:22:26.81
I'm very proud of
you. Thank you. Thank you.
00:22:26.84\00:22:29.11
God bless you. Same to you.
00:22:29.14\00:22:30.55
Okay. Okay.
00:22:30.58\00:22:32.71
You know, Arthur,
during this interview
00:22:32.75\00:22:34.28
Tonya decided to
think about Proverbs 15:1,
00:22:34.32\00:22:38.55
"A soft answer
turns away wrath."
00:22:38.59\00:22:40.99
She had to walk away.
00:22:41.02\00:22:43.09
Well, you know,
let's look at it at a point
00:22:43.12\00:22:48.00
where it's not so
much she had to walk away.
00:22:48.03\00:22:51.03
She recognized that at the point
00:22:51.07\00:22:55.67
between her husband and herself
00:22:55.70\00:22:57.97
that there was no more love.
00:22:58.01\00:23:00.71
That it was nothing
else that could be done
00:23:00.74\00:23:02.74
to resolve the situation,
00:23:02.78\00:23:05.01
and so she had to find herself.
00:23:05.05\00:23:08.38
She had to get to a point
00:23:08.42\00:23:11.29
where whatever was required
for her to save herself,
00:23:11.32\00:23:15.32
that is what she had to do.
00:23:15.36\00:23:17.26
So I'm sure she would
have really appreciated
00:23:17.29\00:23:20.23
if her husband had said, "Okay,
let's try this one more time."
00:23:20.26\00:23:23.23
Right, right.
00:23:23.26\00:23:24.60
You know, but she fought for it,
00:23:24.63\00:23:26.90
she was trying to
resolve it and he refused it.
00:23:26.94\00:23:30.27
Oh, he did. He
didn't want to reconcile.
00:23:30.31\00:23:32.47
Even after talking with him,
00:23:32.51\00:23:34.18
I had several phone
conversations with him,
00:23:34.21\00:23:36.75
and she was in the
office during the time,
00:23:36.78\00:23:40.22
and he kept saying that
it was her responsibility,
00:23:40.25\00:23:42.55
it was her fault, and I
just can't do this anymore.
00:23:42.58\00:23:45.55
And she says, "I
recognize I made mistakes
00:23:45.59\00:23:48.79
but where is the forgiveness.
00:23:48.82\00:23:50.16
Where is the
forgiveness in relationships?
00:23:50.19\00:23:52.33
Why do
relationships end in divorce?"
00:23:52.36\00:23:54.33
Well, as forgiveness
if a person is willing
00:23:54.36\00:23:57.57
to move on and try to
resolve the differences,
00:23:57.60\00:24:01.37
but what's really
important once again is that
00:24:01.40\00:24:04.14
this man made a decision
that he wanted to move on,
00:24:04.17\00:24:07.51
and that was his focus,
00:24:07.54\00:24:10.05
he wanted to move
on no matter what.
00:24:10.08\00:24:13.68
Now let's be real. Okay.
00:24:13.72\00:24:16.52
A situation had occurred
00:24:16.55\00:24:18.69
where this man
inherited some money.
00:24:18.72\00:24:21.26
Yes. Right?
00:24:21.29\00:24:22.62
Yes, a great deal of money.
00:24:22.66\00:24:23.99
You know, and
when he and Tonya met
00:24:24.03\00:24:28.56
his bank account was...
00:24:28.60\00:24:30.13
On zero.
00:24:30.17\00:24:31.97
He didn't have any money,
any credit, nowhere to live,
00:24:32.00\00:24:36.10
he was living with his parents,
00:24:36.14\00:24:38.07
and then he meets Tonya
and moves into her home.
00:24:38.11\00:24:41.51
Because Tonya was vulnerable...
00:24:41.54\00:24:43.61
Yes. And willing...
00:24:43.65\00:24:44.98
Yes.
00:24:45.01\00:24:46.35
She saw something
where well maybe, you know,
00:24:46.38\00:24:48.62
"Maybe this man and my
family, we can come together."
00:24:48.65\00:24:53.92
Right, right, right.
00:24:53.96\00:24:55.29
You know, but after
he received the money
00:24:55.32\00:24:59.43
then he made a decision,
"I didn't need Tonya anymore."
00:24:59.46\00:25:02.60
Right, and you see
that happening a lot.
00:25:02.63\00:25:04.90
That's reality. Mmm.
00:25:04.93\00:25:06.87
You know, it's unfortunate
but that's why I say,
00:25:06.90\00:25:09.94
let's look at it
from the real perspective.
00:25:09.97\00:25:13.01
I personally believe
that when the money came,
00:25:13.04\00:25:16.18
he decided he wanted to go.
00:25:16.21\00:25:18.01
So he made this
decision way beforehand...
00:25:18.05\00:25:20.32
Absolutely.
00:25:20.35\00:25:21.68
He was just waiting for
a way or the money to come.
00:25:21.72\00:25:23.65
Yes.
00:25:23.69\00:25:25.02
You know, searching for
peace, how do we find peace?
00:25:25.05\00:25:27.92
And I know my peace
comes from Jesus Christ.
00:25:27.96\00:25:31.23
A peace that
passes all understanding,
00:25:31.26\00:25:33.46
but what are people
looking for in their marriages?
00:25:33.50\00:25:36.36
What are they looking for today?
00:25:36.40\00:25:38.03
They're looking for...
00:25:38.07\00:25:40.14
As one of my clients indicated,
00:25:40.17\00:25:43.54
she just wanted
somebody to be nice to her.
00:25:43.57\00:25:45.57
Okay.
00:25:45.61\00:25:46.94
You know, people
who want to feel like
00:25:46.98\00:25:49.41
somebody really care, and
supportive, and being nice.
00:25:49.44\00:25:53.31
For me the best
thing in the world...
00:25:53.35\00:25:55.02
You can really deal
with a whole lot of issues,
00:25:55.05\00:26:00.09
but if you've got
the support at home
00:26:00.12\00:26:02.22
and you got
somebody that's right there
00:26:02.26\00:26:04.29
who has your back.
00:26:04.33\00:26:05.79
Oh, yeah.
00:26:05.83\00:26:07.16
You know, then
that means success,
00:26:07.20\00:26:09.23
that whatever the outside world
wants to do come on with it
00:26:09.26\00:26:12.73
because I have my
refuge in God and my spouse.
00:26:12.77\00:26:17.57
You know, you
always used to talk about,
00:26:17.61\00:26:19.21
"Kim, I need you
to have my back."
00:26:19.24\00:26:21.01
That was very
hard for me, you know,
00:26:21.04\00:26:23.18
in the middle of our marriage,
you know, 10th, 12th year
00:26:23.21\00:26:26.72
having your back
'cause it was a trust issue.
00:26:26.75\00:26:29.18
And I trusted
you but it was more
00:26:29.22\00:26:31.32
so just really showing you
'cause I was more so concerned
00:26:31.35\00:26:35.62
about having my own back.
00:26:35.66\00:26:37.43
Of course, and, you know,
let's look at the dynamics
00:26:37.46\00:26:39.93
that's involved there, you know.
00:26:39.96\00:26:42.16
We're talking about
from a disrupted home
00:26:42.20\00:26:45.80
and being at a point
where you didn't want to feel
00:26:45.83\00:26:49.17
under any circumstances
00:26:49.20\00:26:50.97
that you couldn't
take care of yourself.
00:26:51.01\00:26:53.38
That's right. You
wanted to be in charge.
00:26:53.41\00:26:55.41
And they're
controlled. Absolutely.
00:26:55.44\00:26:56.98
Even if they're
controlled, but I thank God
00:26:57.01\00:26:58.78
that Tonya did realize that
she could be a better person,
00:26:58.81\00:27:01.88
and behold through Christ Jesus,
00:27:01.92\00:27:04.35
she's involved in a
nonprofit organization
00:27:04.39\00:27:06.82
that she started.
00:27:06.86\00:27:08.19
A serious
relationship with church.
00:27:08.22\00:27:09.56
And she's very
active in our church
00:27:09.59\00:27:11.23
and she loves God,
00:27:11.26\00:27:12.99
and she is now completed
her counseling process,
00:27:13.03\00:27:16.43
and we thank the Lord
that she has found her peace.
00:27:16.46\00:27:18.90
Yes.
00:27:18.93\00:27:20.27
Well, I thank
God for peace again
00:27:20.30\00:27:22.60
that passes all understanding.
00:27:22.64\00:27:23.97
Yes.
00:27:24.01\00:27:25.34
You can find your
peace also through Christ.
00:27:25.37\00:27:26.78
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:27:26.81\00:27:28.44
I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:27:28.48\00:27:29.81
God bless.
00:27:29.84\00:27:31.18