Participants: Arthur Nowlin & Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Jessica & Patrick Hill
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000060A
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00:31 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:34 And welcome to "Making It Work." 00:37 Okay, Arthur, I have a scripture for you, all right? 00:40 Now, this is a great scripture. 00:42 This is your favorite? One of them. 00:43 One of them, okay. 00:45 It is better to dwell in the corner of a house, 00:50 than with a brawling woman in a wider house. 00:53 Proverbs 21:9. 00:55 Now Arthur, why did you share this scripture with me 01:00 over the years? 01:01 Because some of the concerns that I had, 01:06 you know, and I needed God to direct my path 01:10 and He showed me that scripture, you know. 01:13 Was I a brawling woman? What do you mean was? 01:20 Okay, okay, okay. 01:21 Let's take it down a minute, I-- 01:23 That means you're seeing some improvement over the years? 01:26 We've been together 25 years. 01:28 Yes. Longsuffering. Okay. 01:30 Long, go back to that longsuffering, 01:32 okay, the fruits of the spirit. 01:33 Fruits of the spirit. But it's been joy. 01:35 It's been joy too, peace. 01:36 Yeah, and there's been plenty of peace. 01:38 There's plenty of peace? Yes, it is. 01:39 Yes, the Lord is good. 01:40 Hallelujah. I'm blessed. 01:42 You're blessed, you're blessed, blessed. 01:43 Absolutely and you are too. 01:45 So when we talk about for better or for worst. 01:47 Our guests today, Patrick and Jessica, 01:50 for better or for worst, lot of conflict, 01:52 but recognizing that they needed help 01:54 came to us for counseling, 01:56 and on their way out to divorce court, 01:59 I'm done, but God-- 02:00 Serious problem. 02:02 Yes, but God, they allowed God to intercede. 02:04 So we want to be able to share this interview 02:08 with our viewing audience on Dare to Dream, 02:10 and we know it's gonna be a blessing, 02:12 but marriage again, it takes work, it takes-- 02:14 Consistent work. 02:15 You know what? I like the word consistency. 02:17 You know consistency and commitment and being, 02:23 just cherishing one another. 02:25 All right, I got three C's. Showing it. 02:26 And showing it, oh, see. 02:28 You can talk it all day long, but you got to walk the talk. 02:31 You got to walk the talk, 02:33 and you do walk the talk, Arthur? 02:34 Yes, I do. You do it also. You know, I appreciate that so. 02:36 I praise the Lord and having that balance, 02:39 so Jessica and Patrick had to find a way to walk the talk, 02:43 or either somebody was gonna walk out that door. 02:46 All right, and we wanted them to know that God was able. 02:50 So join us now with Patrick and Jessica 02:53 for better or for worse 02:55 and thank God as you will see, it got better. 03:01 Patrick and Jessica Hill, 03:03 thank you for being on Making it Work. 03:05 What brought you to counseling at Kim Logan Counseling 03:08 and who made the initial contact? 03:10 I made an initial contact by a friend that had issues 03:14 or what not, you have counseled him 03:17 and the first time we met, I actually I called you guys 03:22 and I talked to you, and I explained my situation, 03:24 when you invited us in for initial intake. 03:28 So we went off to meet her 03:30 and we just had a good experience with you all 03:32 as a partnership to help us out with our marriage 03:35 and something like it helps us see things 03:38 that we couldn't see on our own to workout. 03:40 So that's how that came about. 03:43 Jessica, tell us some of the challenges 03:45 that you have faced in your relationship 03:47 with your husband? 03:49 Well, we had a phase, our biggest challenge was 03:52 with blended families, blending our children together, 03:56 the negativity outside the marriage 03:58 within our peers and family, 04:03 us just coming together and we didn't have a counseling 04:06 before we got married was a big challenge for us. 04:09 All right, so you had no premarital counseling? 04:11 Was it even suggested to you that premarital counseling? 04:13 It wasn't even suggested, we didn't even think about it. 04:15 Our first initial move was to get married. 04:18 It wasn't anything before that, which we should have done. 04:20 Tell us how you and Patrick met? 04:22 This is a wonderful love story, tell us a little bit? 04:25 Well, we met when we were 12, 04:27 we would have phone conversation 04:28 through our, two of our cousins, 04:30 and we didn't see each other until we turned 16 and 17, 04:35 and then we were in love, 04:36 well we thought it was popular if I can say. 04:38 And so we turned 21 04:41 then we broke up for about six years, 04:43 and then we got back together, 04:45 and we knew it was meant to be and then we got married. 04:47 Excellent. How many children? 04:49 Has four children. Has four children. 04:51 Pat, did you have a son from previous marriage? 04:54 And Jessica, you have two children 04:57 and then you have a child together. 05:00 Yes. 05:01 I know that is challenging for you. 05:03 Yes, it is. All right. 05:04 Well, basically I guess my question is that what makes? 05:10 What's the good that make you stay together right now, 05:12 you know, because you talked about the challenges, 05:15 so but something is constantly working 05:18 within your relationship to fight for the relationship? 05:22 What, what's the goal? 05:23 Well, first of all, I think praying 05:26 and be able to putting God first, you know. 05:28 Us, I was saying like this is not right to be divorced, 05:33 because we do have our children involved. 05:36 So it won't be fair, you know, to split them out 05:39 or go in a wrong path and not be married and divorced 05:42 'cause that's not what God intend us to be. 05:44 And making sacrifices, 05:46 you have to make a sacrifice for your marriage 05:48 and I do believe, we're soul mates. 05:50 So that's the biggest thing. 05:52 Okay, but-- 05:54 I agree with you 100 percent, when you talk about sacrifices, 05:58 but what was preventing you from coming together, 06:05 and what was causing the dissention 06:08 between the both of you? 06:10 Our biggest issue at that time, we wasn't in charge. 06:13 We, it was just, us together 06:15 and by us going to church now is bringing us closer together 06:18 to see, we're praying together 06:21 and bringing our children to pray together 06:22 is keeping the negativity out of our household now, 06:25 and all the arguments has ceased, 06:28 it's just, we're talking it out, 06:30 there's more communication. 06:32 I think, when you came to counseling 06:35 and then you made a decision, 06:36 we're not coming back, and Patrick, 06:39 you text me, you called, you were crying 06:42 and I reached out to your wife, 06:44 because we're not one to push ourselves, 06:45 it's got to be something an individual wants 06:48 but you reached back to me that time. 06:50 This was a very crucial time, this last period 06:53 and you said, "Okay, I'll come see you, 06:56 I'll talk with you," 06:57 and when you came, you, I had you all hold hands, 07:01 turn to each other, Brother Nowlin was out of town. 07:04 I was tired that day, you just don't know, 07:07 I sat at my desk, remember that session? 07:09 And you all faced each other and you had to share something, 07:12 with your husband and he just still embraced you 07:16 but I kept telling you all along and my husband 07:18 without the power of prayer studying the word of God. 07:22 See going to church, it does what? 07:24 I mean those few hours is just stimulating, 07:27 is good, is motivating, 07:29 but the work conflicting you at home 07:31 and when you're in your secret place with God 07:34 and then allowing that to manifest yourself. 07:37 And that's what it was 07:38 when you started implementing that prayer, 07:41 implementing that power of belief. 07:44 Let's talk about step father, you know, being labeled. 07:49 Do you all have labels in your household? 07:51 Not anymore. We used to. Not anymore. 07:53 We do have, but now, that we embraced in, 07:57 brought it together 07:58 and the whole house our family has a unique works, 08:02 we embraced that now, 08:04 is that now this house has no problem 08:05 where our kids are calling each other 08:06 mother and dad, you know. 08:10 It feels good 'cause I have that glow. 08:13 Yeah, that glow, and AJ, yes. 08:17 It's warming to me, 08:18 not to be called by my first name but dad. 08:22 It's a good feeling. 08:24 Now I could imagine that prior to this experience 08:30 that you're having now. 08:31 How was the mother of your son, 08:37 you know, relating to you as you were transitioning, 08:41 getting the basics and the foundation 08:44 within your immediate household? 08:47 It was a struggle, but she understand 08:50 that my household is my household. 08:53 I run my household and with my son, 08:56 my son had been with me since he was young. 08:58 So it's only quite natural, 09:00 I'm gonna take on that role of being a father 09:03 of this whole household, you know, and I can't, 09:07 she cannot dictate what goes on in the household of my house. 09:10 It's the way I listed up, 09:12 they're are the co-parent and we were not. 09:14 It's just not, that will cause stress within our family 09:18 because, she's stepping on my wife's toes 09:22 and you know and that's, 09:24 I felt like that's not acceptable 09:29 because that's making my wife look at me 09:32 of not being here so much of, you know what I'm saying, 09:37 I have a role of my son 09:38 because she felt like that's her backbone, 09:42 and I feel like to have to get down, 09:44 and standing up their way. 09:45 So it's good now. 09:47 This look good, I'm sorry, go ahead. 09:49 Jessica, here is his manners that's coming into the house 09:54 and he is placed in a position, 09:57 where he is the leader of your household 09:59 and you have children. 10:02 How did you adjust to that? 10:05 Because, you know, to me, 10:06 when somebody is like taking care of their children 10:10 for any period of time, 10:12 then somebody else comes into the household, 10:14 you still have certain, I guess rules 10:18 and certain things that you expect, 10:21 so tell me about that part? 10:23 It was hard 10:25 because I was playing a mother and father for so long, 10:28 and once my husband came along, 10:30 I still want to play mother and father, 10:32 but I want to play mother and father, 10:34 plus one which was with our oldest son. 10:37 So I want to do it all, 10:38 but now that my husband is here, 10:41 I can fall back and I can't let him 10:45 take control and make some rules 10:48 and you know sometimes I want to object, 10:50 but I have to sit back and let him do it 10:52 because my son, our son, the seven year old, 10:55 I want him to be raised as a man. 10:58 I want my husband to help him become that man. 11:01 So I have to have my husband do it for me. 11:03 So it becomes a little bit less stressful for you. 11:07 Yes, yes because it was stressful giving that, 11:11 you know, he is very hyper. 11:12 My husband can handle certain things 11:14 I can't handle them, my husband can. 11:16 So and disciplinary, 11:18 he can give him different idea versus me, so. 11:21 Let's talk about paradigm shift, 11:23 the paradigm shift. 11:25 We think about something that you have in place 11:28 but if it's not working, when did you shift that? 11:30 All right and coming to counseling, 11:33 we've been able to put some paradigm shifts into place. 11:36 Let's talk about one of the areas 11:38 that was really causing a lot of strain was the finances, 11:42 and how Patrick's working a lot of hours 11:45 but both spending, taking trips, 11:47 doing things and recognizing 11:50 we've got to come together on our finances. 11:52 How has that improved? 11:54 Yes, actually improved, we opened a new account 11:59 at the credit union, 12:00 and we're putting money away every week 12:02 and it's like, you know, it's actually going good. 12:06 It's not in compliance as of now. 12:09 Yeah, we've budgeted, 12:11 we made sure we put our tithes and offerings away, 12:13 take that off tab and we're making sure, 12:17 we do things as needed, not as I want. 12:20 As more, as more, as a need. 12:22 Can you say that one more time? More as a need. 12:24 And that is the one. That is the one. 12:26 I just want us, let the church say amen. 12:29 And if we do have a trip that's coming up we save 12:32 and it's not that we, we're going paycheck to paycheck. 12:35 We're saving as we go 12:37 and we know that we have something to do in ahead time, 12:40 we're putting money aside 12:41 for not just throwing our whole check into it, so. 12:45 Who are you people? 12:47 I'm loving this, and I don't take any credit, 12:49 Arthur and I, just thank God that you've taken the counsel, 12:53 the advice, and through the word of God 12:55 and wanting to save your marriage. 12:57 You are not the people 12:59 who walked in here two years ago, 13:00 and I thank God. 13:01 Where do we go from here, 13:03 where we go in as far as your marriage 13:05 and your relationship? 13:07 Marriage and we want to keep working at it, 13:09 keep prayer in it, keep going to church, 13:12 paying our tithes and offerings, 13:14 and doing the saving to our goal till we-- 13:16 Meet our goal. Till we meet our goal. 13:18 Once we've made our goal, we'll make a new one. 13:20 All right. 13:22 So you have different goals? Yes. 13:24 Okay, so 13:26 what are some new challenges now in a relationship? 13:30 I mean everything is coming together, 13:32 we recognize that, but even in the best of homes, 13:36 there are still challenges. 13:39 Well, I can say one of my challenges 13:40 is taking over things, 13:44 this life for instance moving something 13:47 and I don't know whose it is. 13:49 That's my big thing, I would grab something 13:52 and I tell somebody and my wife would remind me, 13:56 you know, this is the cutest things, 13:58 if they want some there, 14:00 you know is enough to respect for almost and to acts now 14:05 whose is this, you know, what are you doing, 14:07 are you gonna move it, how you gonna do it, 14:09 now I take it upon myself and just move it out of the way 14:11 or throw it away, 14:13 that's the behavior that I have is pick some up, 14:15 I see that is laying around or something, 14:18 I just throw it away. 14:19 Oh, that's something like Kim does. 14:23 See now, we'll say about Patrick. 14:25 Patrick is-- 14:26 I'm OCD, okay? 14:28 An over compulsive disorder, 14:30 but Patrick likes things in order, 14:32 likes things clean, he come in, 14:33 hang your coat up, 14:34 then you do, do that, and then your shoes, 14:36 things like that and, Jess, we used to talk about this, 14:39 you know you get mad at me sometimes. 14:40 You know but he likes things always in order 14:43 and everything, isn't that wonderful? 14:44 Yeah, yeah. 14:46 You know, I mean-- 14:48 Why you say, uh, um, uh? 14:50 No, because, now the roles are very changing, 14:53 because now, I have to get on help about moving his stuff 14:57 and keeping his stuff. 14:58 What? What happened Patrick? I had my moments. 15:03 It's a lot more so now than before. 15:06 I'm moving his stuff, until you know, 15:08 tell them about stuff-- 15:09 Well, what? 15:11 See, see, roles changed. Yeah. 15:12 You bet, this role will never change, 15:14 you know that. 15:16 And that's where we have a problem, 15:18 because you need some help. 15:20 You know, I'm thinking you really need to talk to, 15:23 can you give her a session, you know? 15:26 I think the balance of it is that, 15:28 there's no room for me because I am OCD, 15:32 so I tried to leave something alone, you know, 15:35 I try to do this or that, I'm changing in my office 15:38 and, but I still got to keep things in order, 15:40 but that's just how I run my life. 15:43 He is a part of that life. 15:44 He loves it, 'cause he has a built in house keeping. 15:47 Well, let's talk about, 15:48 since you brought up organizational skills 15:51 and you know that's seems to be a issue 15:54 in most household is being organized, 15:56 one person is organizing, 15:58 the other person is not, you know. 16:00 When we talk about that, 16:01 we have to make allowances to recognize 16:05 one person maybe a little bit more organized 16:07 than the other, 16:09 but we can nurture that person 16:12 in the way that we assist him to improve, 16:16 you know and to get on to the same page. 16:19 You all keep nurturing. Yeah, keep nurturing. 16:21 Unfortunately, in some situations patience, 16:26 patience is required 16:27 and a lot of times we overlooked the patience. 16:31 Would you say I'm right or wrong? 16:34 You're right, 'cause she's been very patient with me lately. 16:37 She's been very patient like today 16:38 I came here this morning from work 16:42 and there was a pair of tennis shoes 16:44 sitting on the couch, 16:46 so I grabbed the tennis shoes, I said, you know what, 16:49 they're probably here for a reason, 16:51 I would axe, she's like you okay, you okay. 16:55 She identified that I looked and understand, 17:00 and I asked before touched it. 17:02 I just say, I'm glad you did that 17:05 because that's what I've been preaching to you about 17:07 and she'd say you can put those on floor, yeah there were-- 17:10 Who were they? 17:11 It was my, one of my granddaughter shoes, 17:13 I took them up banging, 17:15 and I had no intentions of moving on, 17:17 but our weekend was very busy, so I had forgotten one, 17:21 when I was seeing them doing it, I was, you know, 17:22 I was gonna mention 'cause I meant to take them down now. 17:24 But it wouldn't matter, it didn't matter 17:26 if he did take them down, because that was my intention. 17:28 So you know, he is trying a little bit and that's great. 17:32 Okay, Jess. Let's get a little into it. 17:35 Your parents have spoiled you. 17:38 You know, how does that work with you and Patrick 17:42 because you're, you know, 17:44 really love your parents about living, 17:45 they're there for you, the children, 17:47 they're there for Patrick too, 17:49 but does that pour into your home with Patrick? 17:53 My spoilness? 17:54 I guess, because, yes, because I end up spoiling him. 17:57 He's the more spoiled person than I am. 17:58 Wow! 17:59 I rather spoil him and my children 18:01 and I come last. 18:04 Is that Patrick? 18:05 I already know the answer to that, 18:06 already know, already know. 18:08 She keep over my gym shoe habit. 18:10 You got a gym shoe habit? 18:12 What you're talking about you got a gym show habit? 18:13 Well, explain. Yeah, yeah. 18:16 Everybody is famous, 18:18 I like Jordan's and I love shoes, 18:22 I like different kind of shoes, 18:24 and shoe that come out that I really want. 18:26 So she would come at April first 18:28 that I want, you know. 18:31 I keep surveying, 18:33 it's like a collector's item for me. 18:35 Still, I mean. 18:36 You got a special wall or something where you put-- 18:39 In the corner, he stacks them on top of each other. 18:42 In the box. In the box. 18:45 Really has a lot of them? He has enough. 18:47 He got to wear them, he just looks at them? 18:49 He will have shoes for like three-four months 18:51 before he wear them 18:52 and he has to even get a special outfit, 18:54 or a special hat to go with them. 18:56 It just like what I want to get, you know. 18:57 Women get all this-- 18:59 Don't go there. No, no. Wait a minute. 19:02 I think Patrick has a point there. 19:03 But we don't wear, ask them. 19:05 Right, we're at it at least once or twice, 19:07 three times a night. 19:08 Cover for months. 19:09 Wait a minute, no, no, no, no. 19:11 See, I have to totally disagree with both of you 19:13 because I never can have stuff in our closet 19:16 that she has for six months before she knew it. 19:19 With the tags still wanted? 19:21 So I mean come on, I mean, so I can understand that. 19:26 That right, I just took off an outfit idea, idea that, 19:29 your idea, I'll give you that one. 19:30 I don't wear them, I'm all right. 19:34 You know what happens, now when you come together 19:40 and pray, and you see the power of God 19:43 manifest himself. 19:44 You know, what happens in your home now? 19:46 It's a wonderful feeling, because now, 19:50 we know that God has a, we're walking with him now, 19:54 it's not just by, we're not by ourselves. 19:56 We'd bring the children in, it's me, it's my husband, 20:00 it's everybody. 20:01 You know we have negativity about it 20:02 but we don't worry about everybody else, 20:04 it's just us now as a whole. 20:07 Oh, we have a hard day, right, let's pray. 20:11 You know everyone to expect their 5:30 prayer from me, 20:14 every single morning. 20:16 Every morning. That's amazing. 20:17 That's amazing. 20:18 I've been their therapist, you know, God's given, 20:21 would you've been there too? 20:23 God is good, he juiced us both in a mighty way. 20:27 You know, I mean having some issues 20:30 in dealing with from a man perspective, 20:33 you know, do you feel like that's more pressure on you. 20:39 Yes pressure. 20:40 Pressure, you know, keep it up with the kids is. 20:44 Oh this weekend was a headache. 20:46 Turned out to my self, break out, 20:48 we took them out to splash universe, you know, 20:50 we have eight kids with us. 20:52 That's pressure and all, and, women, 20:56 just so it makes the roll off so easy, 20:59 keeping up with the is kids is hard. 21:02 They can handle it. They can handle it. 21:04 But it's not that I can't handle it 21:07 is like so much pressure, 21:09 you know for as my perspective is, 21:12 I'm going to school, I work midnights 21:15 they want to get out of school, 21:18 I'm picking up my daughter, 21:19 I'm doing other things with them 21:22 and you say, take them today activities doing today. 21:25 It's just so much you have to have in one time 21:29 and it's sometimes is over bearable 21:31 but you stay out to get that off 21:34 with the spirit just keep moving, 21:36 because you know they ain't gonna skip a beat. 21:38 They're not, they're still gonna continue, 21:40 in our last minute what would you say 21:43 to other couples to continue to make it work? 21:46 Keep God in your marriage 21:48 and he will see that you will go, 21:50 you will get everything you need. 21:52 Yeah. 21:53 And prayer is the number one thing. 21:54 That's right. 21:56 Prayer is the number one thing. 21:57 Well, I appreciate you both, we love you both, 21:59 we're gonna continue counseling, 22:00 gonna continue making sure we stay on task, 22:03 so that we don't have any relapse, 22:05 'cause we want to keep making those shifts towards heaven. 22:09 We want to thank you, God bless you, 22:11 and being on making it work. 22:12 Thank you so much. Thank you. 22:17 We were talking about for better or for worse, 22:19 you're talking about how I can integrate, 22:22 my personality with my spouse 22:24 and in this interview with Jessica and Patrick, 22:27 we were able to see some things 22:29 that what's happening 22:30 from the beginning of their marriage 22:32 and also Arthur, 22:33 we got to be careful not to allow the in-laws 22:36 or the out-laws to come in to the relationship. 22:39 Absolutely it. 22:40 You know sometimes, just a little difficult. 22:42 Why? 22:43 You know because out-laws and in- laws, 22:46 as you indicated they, really are motivated 22:49 to get involved in relationship, 22:51 because they want to make sure everything is going well. 22:55 Unfortunately it can 'cause some problems, you know. 22:58 Let me say this, it is very important 23:01 to our viewing audience on day to dream, 23:04 try not, try not to allow your relationship, 23:09 and what goes on in your household 23:10 to be given to your other family members, 23:14 because once the healing process begins, 23:17 then they're gonna look at your partner 23:19 in a different way. 23:20 But, you know, this sounds great, 23:23 you know and I don't disagree with it, 23:26 but a lot of times when you're talking about 23:29 someone that has been close to their parents for longtime. 23:34 Jessica, yes. 23:35 You know and then we're talking about 23:37 every decision that they've made, 23:39 that they involved their parents. 23:43 Then all of a sudden you get married, 23:46 and you want to give a little of that power 23:49 to the person that you married, that might be a conflict. 23:52 And the reason why we have 23:53 such a conflict in the beginning 23:55 because they didn't have Jesus Christ 23:56 as a third Am aspect. 23:58 Right. 24:00 Christ, then the relationship is served, 24:02 what was the major conflict of Jessica 24:05 letting go of her father, her mother, 24:08 because every time they're together 24:09 in to a difficult situation she got her parents. 24:11 But she it was trust okay. 24:13 Trust in Patrick? 24:14 Yes, trusting her husband, you know to do the right thing, 24:19 you know, I guess apparently, 24:21 there were some mistakes that were made. 24:22 Patrick made some mistakes, yes. 24:24 And from that point, the trust, 24:28 it was difficult for her to really 24:31 give him complete trust in their relationship. 24:35 So how do we regain the trust? 24:37 How do we do that? That's a process. 24:38 It is a process, and it takes time. 24:39 You know, it takes time but in the process, 24:42 the most important thing that you have to do 24:44 is understand that it takes time, 24:46 and then you have to be willing to work, 24:48 you have to pray about the relationship consistently, 24:51 we're talking about establishing 24:53 a different way of dealing with the situation. 24:57 So praying about it, 24:59 getting involved with each other, 25:02 trusting each other, is the goal, 25:05 the long term goal, 25:07 but we have to set up some short term goals 25:09 to get to that long term goal. 25:10 I like that, you know, 25:12 'cause sometime we want to jump up 25:13 right to the long term, without taking the baby steps. 25:16 They're now attending church together with their children, 25:19 studying the word. 25:21 Jessica is no longer arguing, and fighting, and fussing, 25:26 her blood pressure is down. 25:28 Marriages, 25:30 when you're not dealing with it in the right way 25:32 it can cause you to become very ill. 25:34 And, listen also think about Patrick, 25:37 you know, I mean, 25:38 after making some mistakes in the relationship, 25:41 and then trying to get to a point 25:45 where he could present himself as the leader of the family, 25:50 as someone that can be trusted, you know. 25:53 So that was a process 25:54 but now he feels more comfortable, 25:56 and more motivated to work through it. 25:59 So in becoming the spiritual leader, 26:01 that's a high calling on a man's life, 26:03 and be able to hold that responsibility or that title. 26:07 I think that Patrick also recognizes 26:09 he's married to a strong woman. 26:11 Arthur, now you saw some characteristics in Jessica, 26:15 you know, being a strong and being, you know, 26:18 forth right and just being that woman, Amen. 26:21 There's nothing wrong with being a strong woman. 26:24 Amen. 26:25 You know the problem occurs when the projection 26:30 of being strong in every aspect of the relationship 26:34 can create problems. 26:36 It's like dealing with your husband 26:38 to continue to submit or not. 26:40 I feel that we must submit, unto the Lord, both of us. 26:44 The Bible says in Psalms 119:133, 26:49 "order my steps, in the word 26:51 and let not any iniquity have dominion over me." 26:54 I thank God that now Jessica and Patrick 26:57 are realizing that God is the key. 26:59 I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin. 27:01 And thank you for being with us on "Making it work" |
Revised 2016-06-23