Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:00:31.63\00:00:34.83
And welcome to "Making It Work."
00:00:34.86\00:00:37.70
Okay, Arthur, I have a
scripture for you, all right?
00:00:37.73\00:00:40.34
Now, this is a great scripture.
00:00:40.37\00:00:42.14
This is your
favorite? One of them.
00:00:42.17\00:00:43.71
One of them, okay.
00:00:43.74\00:00:45.07
It is better to dwell
in the corner of a house,
00:00:45.11\00:00:50.55
than with a brawling
woman in a wider house.
00:00:50.58\00:00:53.38
Proverbs 21:9.
00:00:53.42\00:00:55.95
Now Arthur, why did you
share this scripture with me
00:00:55.98\00:00:59.99
over the years?
00:01:00.02\00:01:01.36
Because some of the
concerns that I had,
00:01:01.39\00:01:06.86
you know, and I
needed God to direct my path
00:01:06.90\00:01:10.50
and He showed me
that scripture, you know.
00:01:10.53\00:01:13.37
Was I a brawling
woman? What do you mean was?
00:01:13.40\00:01:17.34
Okay, okay, okay.
00:01:20.58\00:01:21.91
Let's take it down a minute, I--
00:01:21.94\00:01:23.55
That means you're seeing
some improvement over the years?
00:01:23.58\00:01:26.85
We've been together 25 years.
00:01:26.88\00:01:28.88
Yes. Longsuffering. Okay.
00:01:28.92\00:01:30.92
Long, go back to
that longsuffering,
00:01:30.95\00:01:32.42
okay, the fruits of the spirit.
00:01:32.45\00:01:33.79
Fruits of the
spirit. But it's been joy.
00:01:33.82\00:01:35.42
It's been joy too, peace.
00:01:35.46\00:01:36.79
Yeah, and there's
been plenty of peace.
00:01:36.83\00:01:38.16
There's plenty of
peace? Yes, it is.
00:01:38.19\00:01:39.53
Yes, the Lord is good.
00:01:39.56\00:01:40.90
Hallelujah. I'm blessed.
00:01:40.93\00:01:42.26
You're blessed,
you're blessed, blessed.
00:01:42.30\00:01:43.63
Absolutely and you are too.
00:01:43.67\00:01:45.00
So when we talk about
for better or for worst.
00:01:45.03\00:01:47.10
Our guests today,
Patrick and Jessica,
00:01:47.14\00:01:50.11
for better or for
worst, lot of conflict,
00:01:50.14\00:01:52.47
but recognizing
that they needed help
00:01:52.51\00:01:54.48
came to us for counseling,
00:01:54.51\00:01:56.54
and on their way
out to divorce court,
00:01:56.58\00:01:59.25
I'm done, but God--
00:01:59.28\00:02:00.92
Serious problem.
00:02:00.95\00:02:02.28
Yes, but God, they
allowed God to intercede.
00:02:02.32\00:02:04.75
So we want to be able
to share this interview
00:02:04.79\00:02:08.16
with our viewing
audience on Dare to Dream,
00:02:08.19\00:02:10.66
and we know it's
gonna be a blessing,
00:02:10.69\00:02:12.13
but marriage again,
it takes work, it takes--
00:02:12.16\00:02:14.33
Consistent work.
00:02:14.36\00:02:15.70
You know what? I
like the word consistency.
00:02:15.73\00:02:17.83
You know consistency
and commitment and being,
00:02:17.87\00:02:22.97
just cherishing one another.
00:02:23.00\00:02:25.04
All right, I got
three C's. Showing it.
00:02:25.07\00:02:26.91
And showing it, oh, see.
00:02:26.94\00:02:28.28
You can talk it all day long,
but you got to walk the talk.
00:02:28.31\00:02:31.68
You got to walk the talk,
00:02:31.71\00:02:33.05
and you do walk
the talk, Arthur?
00:02:33.08\00:02:34.42
Yes, I do. You do it also.
You know, I appreciate that so.
00:02:34.45\00:02:36.95
I praise the Lord
and having that balance,
00:02:36.99\00:02:39.32
so Jessica and Patrick had
to find a way to walk the talk,
00:02:39.35\00:02:43.89
or either somebody was
gonna walk out that door.
00:02:43.93\00:02:46.33
All right, and we wanted
them to know that God was able.
00:02:46.36\00:02:50.03
So join us now
with Patrick and Jessica
00:02:50.07\00:02:53.44
for better or for worse
00:02:53.47\00:02:55.70
and thank God as you
will see, it got better.
00:02:55.74\00:03:01.78
Patrick and Jessica Hill,
00:03:01.81\00:03:03.14
thank you for
being on Making it Work.
00:03:03.18\00:03:05.38
What brought you to counseling
at Kim Logan Counseling
00:03:05.41\00:03:07.98
and who made
the initial contact?
00:03:08.02\00:03:10.69
I made an initial contact
by a friend that had issues
00:03:10.72\00:03:14.66
or what not, you
have counseled him
00:03:14.69\00:03:16.99
and the first time we met,
I actually I called you guys
00:03:17.03\00:03:22.03
and I talked to you, and
I explained my situation,
00:03:22.06\00:03:24.83
when you invited us
in for initial intake.
00:03:24.87\00:03:28.70
So we went off to meet her
00:03:28.74\00:03:30.07
and we just had a good
experience with you all
00:03:30.11\00:03:32.64
as a partnership to
help us out with our marriage
00:03:32.67\00:03:35.24
and something like
it helps us see things
00:03:35.28\00:03:38.18
that we couldn't see
on our own to workout.
00:03:38.21\00:03:40.92
So that's how that came about.
00:03:40.95\00:03:43.15
Jessica, tell us
some of the challenges
00:03:43.18\00:03:45.12
that you have faced
in your relationship
00:03:45.15\00:03:47.12
with your husband?
00:03:47.16\00:03:49.06
Well, we had a phase,
our biggest challenge was
00:03:49.09\00:03:52.29
with blended families,
blending our children together,
00:03:52.33\00:03:56.43
the negativity
outside the marriage
00:03:56.46\00:03:58.60
within our peers and family,
00:03:58.63\00:04:03.00
us just coming together
and we didn't have a counseling
00:04:03.04\00:04:06.54
before we got married
was a big challenge for us.
00:04:06.57\00:04:09.08
All right, so you had
no premarital counseling?
00:04:09.11\00:04:11.11
Was it even suggested to
you that premarital counseling?
00:04:11.15\00:04:13.25
It wasn't even suggested,
we didn't even think about it.
00:04:13.28\00:04:15.45
Our first initial
move was to get married.
00:04:15.48\00:04:17.99
It wasn't anything before
that, which we should have done.
00:04:18.02\00:04:20.82
Tell us how you and Patrick met?
00:04:20.86\00:04:22.66
This is a wonderful love
story, tell us a little bit?
00:04:22.69\00:04:25.33
Well, we met when we were 12,
00:04:25.36\00:04:27.06
we would have phone conversation
00:04:27.10\00:04:28.70
through our, two of our cousins,
00:04:28.73\00:04:30.83
and we didn't see each
other until we turned 16 and 17,
00:04:30.87\00:04:35.00
and then we were in love,
00:04:35.04\00:04:36.40
well we thought it
was popular if I can say.
00:04:36.44\00:04:38.81
And so we turned 21
00:04:38.84\00:04:41.18
then we broke up
for about six years,
00:04:41.21\00:04:43.78
and then we got back together,
00:04:43.81\00:04:45.15
and we knew it was meant
to be and then we got married.
00:04:45.18\00:04:47.35
Excellent. How many children?
00:04:47.38\00:04:49.82
Has four
children. Has four children.
00:04:49.85\00:04:51.75
Pat, did you have a
son from previous marriage?
00:04:51.79\00:04:54.79
And Jessica, you
have two children
00:04:54.82\00:04:57.73
and then you
have a child together.
00:04:57.76\00:05:00.10
Yes.
00:05:00.13\00:05:01.46
I know that is
challenging for you.
00:05:01.50\00:05:02.96
Yes, it is. All right.
00:05:03.00\00:05:04.73
Well, basically I guess my
question is that what makes?
00:05:04.77\00:05:09.97
What's the good that make
you stay together right now,
00:05:10.01\00:05:12.61
you know, because you
talked about the challenges,
00:05:12.64\00:05:15.48
so but something
is constantly working
00:05:15.51\00:05:18.58
within your relationship
to fight for the relationship?
00:05:18.61\00:05:22.25
What, what's the goal?
00:05:22.28\00:05:23.92
Well, first of
all, I think praying
00:05:23.95\00:05:26.12
and be able to
putting God first, you know.
00:05:26.15\00:05:28.59
Us, I was saying like this
is not right to be divorced,
00:05:28.62\00:05:33.40
because we do have
our children involved.
00:05:33.43\00:05:36.23
So it won't be fair,
you know, to split them out
00:05:36.26\00:05:39.23
or go in a wrong path and
not be married and divorced
00:05:39.27\00:05:42.54
'cause that's not
what God intend us to be.
00:05:42.57\00:05:44.74
And making sacrifices,
00:05:44.77\00:05:46.11
you have to make a
sacrifice for your marriage
00:05:46.14\00:05:48.01
and I do
believe, we're soul mates.
00:05:48.04\00:05:50.48
So that's the biggest thing.
00:05:50.51\00:05:52.15
Okay, but--
00:05:52.18\00:05:54.82
I agree with you 100 percent,
when you talk about sacrifices,
00:05:54.85\00:05:58.49
but what was preventing
you from coming together,
00:05:58.52\00:06:05.36
and what was
causing the dissention
00:06:05.39\00:06:08.80
between the both of you?
00:06:08.83\00:06:10.83
Our biggest issue at that
time, we wasn't in charge.
00:06:10.87\00:06:13.34
We, it was just, us together
00:06:13.37\00:06:15.60
and by us going to church now
is bringing us closer together
00:06:15.64\00:06:18.71
to see, we're praying together
00:06:18.74\00:06:21.28
and bringing our
children to pray together
00:06:21.31\00:06:22.94
is keeping the negativity
out of our household now,
00:06:22.98\00:06:25.71
and all the
arguments has ceased,
00:06:25.75\00:06:28.35
it's just, we're talking it out,
00:06:28.38\00:06:30.25
there's more communication.
00:06:30.29\00:06:32.02
I think, when you
came to counseling
00:06:32.05\00:06:35.02
and then you made a decision,
00:06:35.06\00:06:36.62
we're not coming
back, and Patrick,
00:06:36.66\00:06:39.49
you text me, you
called, you were crying
00:06:39.53\00:06:42.16
and I reached out to your wife,
00:06:42.20\00:06:44.27
because we're not
one to push ourselves,
00:06:44.30\00:06:45.80
it's got to be
something an individual wants
00:06:45.83\00:06:48.60
but you reached
back to me that time.
00:06:48.64\00:06:50.67
This was a very
crucial time, this last period
00:06:50.71\00:06:53.58
and you said,
"Okay, I'll come see you,
00:06:53.61\00:06:56.11
I'll talk with you,"
00:06:56.14\00:06:57.55
and when you came, you,
I had you all hold hands,
00:06:57.58\00:07:01.58
turn to each other,
Brother Nowlin was out of town.
00:07:01.62\00:07:04.39
I was tired that
day, you just don't know,
00:07:04.42\00:07:07.06
I sat at my desk,
remember that session?
00:07:07.09\00:07:09.42
And you all faced each other
and you had to share something,
00:07:09.46\00:07:12.56
with your husband and
he just still embraced you
00:07:12.59\00:07:16.16
but I kept telling you
all along and my husband
00:07:16.20\00:07:18.73
without the power of
prayer studying the word of God.
00:07:18.77\00:07:22.00
See going to
church, it does what?
00:07:22.04\00:07:24.34
I mean those few
hours is just stimulating,
00:07:24.37\00:07:27.64
is good, is motivating,
00:07:27.68\00:07:29.01
but the work
conflicting you at home
00:07:29.04\00:07:31.45
and when you're in
your secret place with God
00:07:31.48\00:07:34.42
and then allowing
that to manifest yourself.
00:07:34.45\00:07:37.09
And that's what it was
00:07:37.12\00:07:38.59
when you started
implementing that prayer,
00:07:38.62\00:07:41.29
implementing
that power of belief.
00:07:41.32\00:07:44.19
Let's talk about step
father, you know, being labeled.
00:07:44.23\00:07:49.23
Do you all have
labels in your household?
00:07:49.26\00:07:51.63
Not anymore. We
used to. Not anymore.
00:07:51.67\00:07:53.67
We do have, but
now, that we embraced in,
00:07:53.70\00:07:57.57
brought it together
00:07:57.61\00:07:58.94
and the whole house our
family has a unique works,
00:07:58.97\00:08:02.18
we embraced that now,
00:08:02.21\00:08:03.98
is that now this
house has no problem
00:08:04.01\00:08:05.35
where our kids
are calling each other
00:08:05.38\00:08:06.72
mother and dad, you know.
00:08:06.75\00:08:10.75
It feels good
'cause I have that glow.
00:08:10.79\00:08:13.02
Yeah, that glow, and AJ, yes.
00:08:13.05\00:08:17.39
It's warming to me,
00:08:17.43\00:08:18.79
not to be called by
my first name but dad.
00:08:18.83\00:08:22.20
It's a good feeling.
00:08:22.23\00:08:24.80
Now I could imagine
that prior to this experience
00:08:24.83\00:08:30.24
that you're having now.
00:08:30.27\00:08:31.77
How was the mother of your son,
00:08:31.81\00:08:37.45
you know, relating to you
as you were transitioning,
00:08:37.48\00:08:41.75
getting the
basics and the foundation
00:08:41.78\00:08:44.82
within your immediate household?
00:08:44.85\00:08:47.82
It was a
struggle, but she understand
00:08:47.86\00:08:50.86
that my
household is my household.
00:08:50.89\00:08:53.26
I run my
household and with my son,
00:08:53.29\00:08:56.06
my son had been with
me since he was young.
00:08:56.10\00:08:58.87
So it's only quite natural,
00:08:58.90\00:09:00.47
I'm gonna take on
that role of being a father
00:09:00.50\00:09:03.24
of this whole household,
you know, and I can't,
00:09:03.27\00:09:07.18
she cannot dictate what goes
on in the household of my house.
00:09:07.21\00:09:10.95
It's the way I listed up,
00:09:10.98\00:09:12.58
they're are the
co-parent and we were not.
00:09:12.61\00:09:14.55
It's just not, that will
cause stress within our family
00:09:14.58\00:09:18.89
because, she's
stepping on my wife's toes
00:09:18.92\00:09:22.59
and you know and that's,
00:09:22.62\00:09:24.39
I felt like
that's not acceptable
00:09:24.43\00:09:29.13
because that's
making my wife look at me
00:09:29.16\00:09:32.77
of not being here so much
of, you know what I'm saying,
00:09:32.80\00:09:37.01
I have a role of my son
00:09:37.04\00:09:38.61
because she felt
like that's her backbone,
00:09:38.64\00:09:42.14
and I feel like
to have to get down,
00:09:42.18\00:09:44.28
and standing up their way.
00:09:44.31\00:09:45.71
So it's good now.
00:09:45.75\00:09:47.42
This look good,
I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:09:47.45\00:09:49.58
Jessica, here is his manners
that's coming into the house
00:09:49.62\00:09:54.79
and he is placed in a position,
00:09:54.82\00:09:57.46
where he is the
leader of your household
00:09:57.49\00:09:59.56
and you have children.
00:09:59.59\00:10:02.70
How did you adjust to that?
00:10:02.73\00:10:05.43
Because, you know, to me,
00:10:05.47\00:10:06.80
when somebody is like
taking care of their children
00:10:06.84\00:10:10.07
for any period of time,
00:10:10.11\00:10:12.07
then somebody else
comes into the household,
00:10:12.11\00:10:14.28
you still have
certain, I guess rules
00:10:14.31\00:10:18.28
and certain
things that you expect,
00:10:18.31\00:10:21.05
so tell me about that part?
00:10:21.08\00:10:23.89
It was hard
00:10:23.92\00:10:25.25
because I was playing a
mother and father for so long,
00:10:25.29\00:10:28.42
and once my husband came along,
00:10:28.46\00:10:30.86
I still want to
play mother and father,
00:10:30.89\00:10:32.36
but I want to
play mother and father,
00:10:32.39\00:10:34.40
plus one which was
with our oldest son.
00:10:34.43\00:10:37.30
So I want to do it all,
00:10:37.33\00:10:38.67
but now that my husband is here,
00:10:38.70\00:10:41.50
I can fall back
and I can't let him
00:10:41.54\00:10:45.11
take control and make some rules
00:10:45.14\00:10:48.08
and you know
sometimes I want to object,
00:10:48.11\00:10:50.55
but I have to sit
back and let him do it
00:10:50.58\00:10:52.48
because my son, our
son, the seven year old,
00:10:52.51\00:10:55.72
I want him to
be raised as a man.
00:10:55.75\00:10:58.19
I want my husband to
help him become that man.
00:10:58.22\00:11:01.02
So I have to have my
husband do it for me.
00:11:01.06\00:11:03.66
So it becomes a little
bit less stressful for you.
00:11:03.69\00:11:07.40
Yes, yes because it
was stressful giving that,
00:11:07.43\00:11:10.97
you know, he is very hyper.
00:11:11.00\00:11:12.67
My husband can
handle certain things
00:11:12.70\00:11:14.30
I can't handle
them, my husband can.
00:11:14.34\00:11:16.64
So and disciplinary,
00:11:16.67\00:11:18.01
he can give him
different idea versus me, so.
00:11:18.04\00:11:21.91
Let's talk about paradigm shift,
00:11:21.94\00:11:23.81
the paradigm shift.
00:11:23.85\00:11:25.28
We think about
something that you have in place
00:11:25.31\00:11:28.48
but if it's not working,
when did you shift that?
00:11:28.52\00:11:30.85
All right and
coming to counseling,
00:11:30.89\00:11:33.05
we've been able to put
some paradigm shifts into place.
00:11:33.09\00:11:36.73
Let's talk
about one of the areas
00:11:36.76\00:11:38.59
that was really causing a
lot of strain was the finances,
00:11:38.63\00:11:42.50
and how Patrick's
working a lot of hours
00:11:42.53\00:11:45.43
but both spending, taking trips,
00:11:45.47\00:11:47.74
doing things and recognizing
00:11:47.77\00:11:50.31
we've got to come
together on our finances.
00:11:50.34\00:11:52.91
How has that improved?
00:11:52.94\00:11:54.71
Yes, actually improved,
we opened a new account
00:11:54.74\00:11:59.01
at the credit union,
00:11:59.05\00:12:00.38
and we're putting
money away every week
00:12:00.42\00:12:02.38
and it's like, you know,
it's actually going good.
00:12:02.42\00:12:06.15
It's not in
compliance as of now.
00:12:06.19\00:12:09.82
Yeah, we've budgeted,
00:12:09.86\00:12:11.19
we made sure we put our
tithes and offerings away,
00:12:11.23\00:12:13.56
take that off tab
and we're making sure,
00:12:13.60\00:12:17.37
we do things as
needed, not as I want.
00:12:17.40\00:12:20.54
As more, as more, as a need.
00:12:20.57\00:12:22.77
Can you say that one
more time? More as a need.
00:12:22.80\00:12:24.87
And that is the
one. That is the one.
00:12:24.91\00:12:26.27
I just want us, let
the church say amen.
00:12:26.31\00:12:29.08
And if we do have a
trip that's coming up we save
00:12:29.11\00:12:32.35
and it's not that we, we're
going paycheck to paycheck.
00:12:32.38\00:12:35.85
We're saving as we go
00:12:35.88\00:12:37.79
and we know that we have
something to do in ahead time,
00:12:37.82\00:12:40.19
we're putting money aside
00:12:40.22\00:12:41.56
for not just throwing
our whole check into it, so.
00:12:41.59\00:12:45.76
Who are you people?
00:12:45.79\00:12:47.63
I'm loving this, and
I don't take any credit,
00:12:47.66\00:12:49.70
Arthur and I, just thank God
that you've taken the counsel,
00:12:49.73\00:12:53.80
the advice, and
through the word of God
00:12:53.84\00:12:55.57
and wanting to
save your marriage.
00:12:55.60\00:12:57.61
You are not the people
00:12:57.64\00:12:58.97
who walked in
here two years ago,
00:12:59.01\00:13:00.48
and I thank God.
00:13:00.51\00:13:01.91
Where do we go from here,
00:13:01.94\00:13:03.65
where we go in as
far as your marriage
00:13:03.68\00:13:05.58
and your relationship?
00:13:05.61\00:13:07.68
Marriage and we want
to keep working at it,
00:13:07.72\00:13:09.58
keep prayer in it,
keep going to church,
00:13:09.62\00:13:12.32
paying our tithes and offerings,
00:13:12.35\00:13:14.16
and doing the saving
to our goal till we--
00:13:14.19\00:13:16.66
Meet our goal.
Till we meet our goal.
00:13:16.69\00:13:18.93
Once we've made our
goal, we'll make a new one.
00:13:18.96\00:13:20.73
All right.
00:13:20.76\00:13:22.10
So you have
different goals? Yes.
00:13:22.13\00:13:23.97
Okay, so
00:13:24.00\00:13:26.87
what are some new challenges
now in a relationship?
00:13:26.90\00:13:30.64
I mean everything
is coming together,
00:13:30.67\00:13:32.17
we recognize that, but
even in the best of homes,
00:13:32.21\00:13:36.14
there are still challenges.
00:13:36.18\00:13:39.05
Well, I can say
one of my challenges
00:13:39.08\00:13:40.52
is taking over things,
00:13:40.55\00:13:44.32
this life for
instance moving something
00:13:44.35\00:13:47.92
and I don't know whose it is.
00:13:47.96\00:13:49.82
That's my big thing,
I would grab something
00:13:49.86\00:13:52.49
and I tell somebody and
my wife would remind me,
00:13:52.53\00:13:56.53
you know, this is
the cutest things,
00:13:56.56\00:13:58.73
if they want some there,
00:13:58.77\00:14:00.17
you know is enough to respect
for almost and to acts now
00:14:00.20\00:14:05.14
whose is this, you
know, what are you doing,
00:14:05.17\00:14:07.04
are you gonna move
it, how you gonna do it,
00:14:07.08\00:14:09.44
now I take it upon myself
and just move it out of the way
00:14:09.48\00:14:11.78
or throw it away,
00:14:11.81\00:14:13.35
that's the behavior
that I have is pick some up,
00:14:13.38\00:14:15.82
I see that is
laying around or something,
00:14:15.85\00:14:18.19
I just throw it away.
00:14:18.22\00:14:19.55
Oh, that's
something like Kim does.
00:14:19.59\00:14:23.53
See now, we'll
say about Patrick.
00:14:23.56\00:14:25.06
Patrick is--
00:14:25.09\00:14:26.59
I'm OCD, okay?
00:14:26.63\00:14:28.60
An over compulsive disorder,
00:14:28.63\00:14:29.96
but Patrick
likes things in order,
00:14:30.00\00:14:31.97
likes things clean, he come in,
00:14:32.00\00:14:33.34
hang your coat up,
00:14:33.37\00:14:34.70
then you do, do
that, and then your shoes,
00:14:34.74\00:14:36.37
things like that and, Jess,
we used to talk about this,
00:14:36.40\00:14:39.01
you know you get
mad at me sometimes.
00:14:39.04\00:14:40.68
You know but he likes
things always in order
00:14:40.71\00:14:43.35
and everything,
isn't that wonderful?
00:14:43.38\00:14:44.91
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:44.95\00:14:46.68
You know, I mean--
00:14:46.72\00:14:48.85
Why you say, uh, um, uh?
00:14:48.88\00:14:50.32
No, because, now the
roles are very changing,
00:14:50.35\00:14:53.86
because now, I have to get
on help about moving his stuff
00:14:53.89\00:14:57.19
and keeping his stuff.
00:14:57.23\00:14:58.56
What? What happened
Patrick? I had my moments.
00:14:58.59\00:15:03.50
It's a lot more
so now than before.
00:15:03.53\00:15:06.27
I'm moving his
stuff, until you know,
00:15:06.30\00:15:08.27
tell them about stuff--
00:15:08.30\00:15:09.80
Well, what?
00:15:09.84\00:15:11.17
See, see, roles changed. Yeah.
00:15:11.21\00:15:12.91
You bet, this
role will never change,
00:15:12.94\00:15:14.88
you know that.
00:15:14.91\00:15:16.24
And that's where
we have a problem,
00:15:16.28\00:15:18.41
because you need some help.
00:15:18.45\00:15:20.32
You know, I'm thinking
you really need to talk to,
00:15:20.35\00:15:23.02
can you give her
a session, you know?
00:15:23.05\00:15:26.02
I think the
balance of it is that,
00:15:26.05\00:15:28.92
there's no room for
me because I am OCD,
00:15:28.96\00:15:32.09
so I tried to leave
something alone, you know,
00:15:32.13\00:15:35.73
I try to do this or
that, I'm changing in my office
00:15:35.76\00:15:38.63
and, but I still got
to keep things in order,
00:15:38.67\00:15:40.77
but that's just
how I run my life.
00:15:40.80\00:15:43.37
He is a part of that life.
00:15:43.41\00:15:44.74
He loves it, 'cause he
has a built in house keeping.
00:15:44.77\00:15:47.41
Well, let's talk about,
00:15:47.44\00:15:48.78
since you brought up
organizational skills
00:15:48.81\00:15:51.68
and you know
that's seems to be a issue
00:15:51.71\00:15:54.22
in most household
is being organized,
00:15:54.25\00:15:56.62
one person is organizing,
00:15:56.65\00:15:58.09
the other person
is not, you know.
00:15:58.12\00:16:00.06
When we talk about that,
00:16:00.09\00:16:01.42
we have to make
allowances to recognize
00:16:01.46\00:16:05.16
one person maybe a
little bit more organized
00:16:05.19\00:16:07.80
than the other,
00:16:07.83\00:16:09.56
but we can nurture that person
00:16:09.60\00:16:12.23
in the way that we
assist him to improve,
00:16:12.27\00:16:16.81
you know and to get
on to the same page.
00:16:16.84\00:16:19.67
You all keep
nurturing. Yeah, keep nurturing.
00:16:19.71\00:16:21.34
Unfortunately, in
some situations patience,
00:16:21.38\00:16:26.25
patience is required
00:16:26.28\00:16:27.88
and a lot of times we
overlooked the patience.
00:16:27.92\00:16:31.42
Would you say
I'm right or wrong?
00:16:31.45\00:16:33.99
You're right, 'cause she's been
very patient with me lately.
00:16:34.02\00:16:37.06
She's been very
patient like today
00:16:37.09\00:16:38.93
I came here this
morning from work
00:16:38.96\00:16:42.23
and there was a
pair of tennis shoes
00:16:42.26\00:16:44.73
sitting on the couch,
00:16:44.77\00:16:46.43
so I grabbed the tennis
shoes, I said, you know what,
00:16:46.47\00:16:49.57
they're probably
here for a reason,
00:16:49.60\00:16:51.01
I would axe, she's
like you okay, you okay.
00:16:51.04\00:16:55.18
She identified that I
looked and understand,
00:16:55.21\00:17:00.05
and I asked before touched it.
00:17:00.08\00:17:02.68
I just say, I'm
glad you did that
00:17:02.72\00:17:05.12
because that's what I've
been preaching to you about
00:17:05.15\00:17:07.82
and she'd say you can put those
on floor, yeah there were--
00:17:07.86\00:17:10.49
Who were they?
00:17:10.53\00:17:11.86
It was my, one of
my granddaughter shoes,
00:17:11.89\00:17:13.80
I took them up banging,
00:17:13.83\00:17:15.23
and I had no
intentions of moving on,
00:17:15.26\00:17:17.03
but our weekend was very
busy, so I had forgotten one,
00:17:17.07\00:17:20.97
when I was seeing them
doing it, I was, you know,
00:17:21.00\00:17:22.40
I was gonna mention 'cause
I meant to take them down now.
00:17:22.44\00:17:24.61
But it wouldn't
matter, it didn't matter
00:17:24.64\00:17:25.97
if he did take them down,
because that was my intention.
00:17:26.01\00:17:28.38
So you know, he is trying a
little bit and that's great.
00:17:28.41\00:17:32.65
Okay, Jess. Let's
get a little into it.
00:17:32.68\00:17:35.75
Your parents have spoiled you.
00:17:35.78\00:17:38.39
You know, how does that
work with you and Patrick
00:17:38.42\00:17:42.49
because you're, you know,
00:17:42.52\00:17:44.23
really love your
parents about living,
00:17:44.26\00:17:45.96
they're there for
you, the children,
00:17:45.99\00:17:47.76
they're there for Patrick too,
00:17:47.80\00:17:49.33
but does that pour
into your home with Patrick?
00:17:49.36\00:17:53.00
My spoilness?
00:17:53.03\00:17:54.64
I guess, because, yes,
because I end up spoiling him.
00:17:54.67\00:17:56.97
He's the more
spoiled person than I am.
00:17:57.01\00:17:58.47
Wow!
00:17:58.51\00:17:59.84
I rather spoil
him and my children
00:17:59.87\00:18:01.54
and I come last.
00:18:01.58\00:18:04.21
Is that Patrick?
00:18:04.25\00:18:05.58
I already know
the answer to that,
00:18:05.61\00:18:06.95
already know, already know.
00:18:06.98\00:18:08.32
She keep over my gym shoe habit.
00:18:08.35\00:18:10.35
You got a gym shoe habit?
00:18:10.39\00:18:12.09
What you're talking
about you got a gym show habit?
00:18:12.12\00:18:13.59
Well, explain. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:13.62\00:18:16.56
Everybody is famous,
00:18:16.59\00:18:18.49
I like Jordan's
and I love shoes,
00:18:18.53\00:18:22.60
I like different kind of shoes,
00:18:22.63\00:18:23.97
and shoe that come
out that I really want.
00:18:24.00\00:18:26.67
So she would come at April first
00:18:26.70\00:18:28.34
that I want, you know.
00:18:28.37\00:18:31.01
I keep surveying,
00:18:31.04\00:18:33.14
it's like a
collector's item for me.
00:18:33.17\00:18:35.38
Still, I mean.
00:18:35.41\00:18:36.91
You got a special wall
or something where you put--
00:18:36.95\00:18:39.25
In the corner, he stacks
them on top of each other.
00:18:39.28\00:18:41.98
In the box. In the box.
00:18:42.02\00:18:45.09
Really has a lot of
them? He has enough.
00:18:45.12\00:18:47.92
He got to wear them,
he just looks at them?
00:18:47.96\00:18:49.59
He will have shoes
for like three-four months
00:18:49.62\00:18:51.19
before he wear them
00:18:51.23\00:18:52.73
and he has to even
get a special outfit,
00:18:52.76\00:18:54.40
or a special
hat to go with them.
00:18:54.43\00:18:56.06
It just like what I
want to get, you know.
00:18:56.10\00:18:57.60
Women get all this--
00:18:57.63\00:18:58.97
Don't go there.
No, no. Wait a minute.
00:18:59.00\00:19:02.30
I think Patrick
has a point there.
00:19:02.34\00:19:03.81
But we don't wear, ask them.
00:19:03.84\00:19:05.21
Right, we're at it
at least once or twice,
00:19:05.24\00:19:07.01
three times a night.
00:19:07.04\00:19:08.38
Cover for months.
00:19:08.41\00:19:09.74
Wait a minute, no, no, no, no.
00:19:09.78\00:19:11.11
See, I have to totally
disagree with both of you
00:19:11.15\00:19:13.65
because I never can
have stuff in our closet
00:19:13.68\00:19:16.62
that she has for six
months before she knew it.
00:19:16.65\00:19:19.79
With the tags still wanted?
00:19:19.82\00:19:21.62
So I mean come on, I
mean, so I can understand that.
00:19:21.66\00:19:26.03
That right, I just took
off an outfit idea, idea that,
00:19:26.06\00:19:29.10
your idea, I'll
give you that one.
00:19:29.13\00:19:30.47
I don't wear
them, I'm all right.
00:19:30.50\00:19:34.44
You know what happens,
now when you come together
00:19:34.47\00:19:40.38
and pray, and you
see the power of God
00:19:40.41\00:19:42.98
manifest himself.
00:19:43.01\00:19:44.55
You know, what
happens in your home now?
00:19:44.58\00:19:46.51
It's a wonderful
feeling, because now,
00:19:46.55\00:19:50.49
we know that God has a,
we're walking with him now,
00:19:50.52\00:19:54.02
it's not just by,
we're not by ourselves.
00:19:54.06\00:19:56.79
We'd bring the children
in, it's me, it's my husband,
00:19:56.83\00:19:59.96
it's everybody.
00:20:00.00\00:20:01.33
You know we have
negativity about it
00:20:01.36\00:20:02.86
but we don't worry
about everybody else,
00:20:02.90\00:20:04.70
it's just us now as a whole.
00:20:04.73\00:20:07.14
Oh, we have a hard
day, right, let's pray.
00:20:07.17\00:20:11.74
You know everyone to expect
their 5:30 prayer from me,
00:20:11.77\00:20:14.74
every single morning.
00:20:14.78\00:20:16.11
Every morning. That's amazing.
00:20:16.14\00:20:17.48
That's amazing.
00:20:17.51\00:20:18.85
I've been their therapist,
you know, God's given,
00:20:18.88\00:20:21.78
would you've been there too?
00:20:21.82\00:20:23.15
God is good, he juiced
us both in a mighty way.
00:20:23.18\00:20:27.92
You know, I mean
having some issues
00:20:27.96\00:20:30.56
in dealing with
from a man perspective,
00:20:30.59\00:20:33.86
you know, do you feel like
that's more pressure on you.
00:20:33.90\00:20:39.20
Yes pressure.
00:20:39.23\00:20:40.67
Pressure, you know,
keep it up with the kids is.
00:20:40.70\00:20:44.57
Oh this weekend was a headache.
00:20:44.61\00:20:46.54
Turned out to
my self, break out,
00:20:46.57\00:20:48.24
we took them out to
splash universe, you know,
00:20:48.28\00:20:49.98
we have eight kids with us.
00:20:50.01\00:20:52.55
That's pressure
and all, and, women,
00:20:52.58\00:20:56.85
just so it makes
the roll off so easy,
00:20:56.89\00:20:59.69
keeping up with
the is kids is hard.
00:20:59.72\00:21:02.66
They can handle
it. They can handle it.
00:21:02.69\00:21:04.86
But it's not
that I can't handle it
00:21:04.89\00:21:07.66
is like so much pressure,
00:21:07.70\00:21:09.46
you know for as
my perspective is,
00:21:09.50\00:21:12.53
I'm going to
school, I work midnights
00:21:12.57\00:21:15.50
they want to get out of school,
00:21:15.54\00:21:18.41
I'm picking up my daughter,
00:21:18.44\00:21:19.77
I'm doing other things with them
00:21:19.81\00:21:22.18
and you say, take them
today activities doing today.
00:21:22.21\00:21:25.05
It's just so much you
have to have in one time
00:21:25.08\00:21:29.95
and it's
sometimes is over bearable
00:21:29.98\00:21:31.75
but you stay out to get that off
00:21:31.79\00:21:34.22
with the spirit
just keep moving,
00:21:34.26\00:21:36.76
because you know they
ain't gonna skip a beat.
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.73
They're not, they're
still gonna continue,
00:21:38.76\00:21:40.43
in our last
minute what would you say
00:21:40.46\00:21:43.37
to other couples to
continue to make it work?
00:21:43.40\00:21:46.74
Keep God in your marriage
00:21:46.77\00:21:48.60
and he will see
that you will go,
00:21:48.64\00:21:50.71
you will get
everything you need.
00:21:50.74\00:21:52.11
Yeah.
00:21:52.14\00:21:53.48
And prayer is
the number one thing.
00:21:53.51\00:21:54.84
That's right.
00:21:54.88\00:21:56.21
Prayer is the number one thing.
00:21:56.24\00:21:57.58
Well, I appreciate you
both, we love you both,
00:21:57.61\00:21:59.05
we're gonna continue counseling,
00:21:59.08\00:22:00.95
gonna continue
making sure we stay on task,
00:22:00.98\00:22:03.59
so that we don't
have any relapse,
00:22:03.62\00:22:05.35
'cause we want to keep making
those shifts towards heaven.
00:22:05.39\00:22:09.26
We want to thank
you, God bless you,
00:22:09.29\00:22:11.16
and being on making it work.
00:22:11.19\00:22:12.59
Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:22:12.63\00:22:14.03
We were talking about
for better or for worse,
00:22:17.93\00:22:19.90
you're talking
about how I can integrate,
00:22:19.93\00:22:22.00
my personality with my spouse
00:22:22.04\00:22:24.81
and in this interview
with Jessica and Patrick,
00:22:24.84\00:22:27.58
we were able to see some things
00:22:27.61\00:22:29.54
that what's happening
00:22:29.58\00:22:30.91
from the
beginning of their marriage
00:22:30.95\00:22:32.28
and also Arthur,
00:22:32.31\00:22:33.68
we got to be careful
not to allow the in-laws
00:22:33.72\00:22:36.69
or the out-laws to
come in to the relationship.
00:22:36.72\00:22:39.05
Absolutely it.
00:22:39.09\00:22:40.69
You know sometimes,
just a little difficult.
00:22:40.72\00:22:42.36
Why?
00:22:42.39\00:22:43.73
You know because
out-laws and in- laws,
00:22:43.76\00:22:46.06
as you indicated
they, really are motivated
00:22:46.09\00:22:49.83
to get involved in relationship,
00:22:49.86\00:22:51.40
because they want to make
sure everything is going well.
00:22:51.43\00:22:55.37
Unfortunately it can
'cause some problems, you know.
00:22:55.40\00:22:58.74
Let me say this,
it is very important
00:22:58.77\00:23:01.44
to our viewing
audience on day to dream,
00:23:01.48\00:23:04.05
try not, try not to
allow your relationship,
00:23:04.08\00:23:08.98
and what goes on
in your household
00:23:09.02\00:23:10.75
to be given to your
other family members,
00:23:10.79\00:23:14.32
because once the
healing process begins,
00:23:14.36\00:23:17.49
then they're gonna
look at your partner
00:23:17.53\00:23:19.39
in a different way.
00:23:19.43\00:23:20.76
But, you know,
this sounds great,
00:23:20.80\00:23:23.06
you know and I
don't disagree with it,
00:23:23.10\00:23:26.60
but a lot of times
when you're talking about
00:23:26.63\00:23:29.80
someone that has been close
to their parents for longtime.
00:23:29.84\00:23:34.24
Jessica, yes.
00:23:34.28\00:23:35.61
You know and then
we're talking about
00:23:35.64\00:23:37.31
every decision
that they've made,
00:23:37.35\00:23:39.85
that they
involved their parents.
00:23:39.88\00:23:43.45
Then all of a
sudden you get married,
00:23:43.49\00:23:46.05
and you want to give
a little of that power
00:23:46.09\00:23:49.06
to the person that you married,
that might be a conflict.
00:23:49.09\00:23:52.46
And the reason why we have
00:23:52.49\00:23:53.83
such a conflict in the beginning
00:23:53.86\00:23:55.20
because they
didn't have Jesus Christ
00:23:55.23\00:23:56.77
as a third Am aspect.
00:23:56.80\00:23:58.80
Right.
00:23:58.83\00:24:00.17
Christ, then the
relationship is served,
00:24:00.20\00:24:02.54
what was the major
conflict of Jessica
00:24:02.57\00:24:05.17
letting go of her
father, her mother,
00:24:05.21\00:24:08.04
because every
time they're together
00:24:08.08\00:24:09.94
in to a difficult
situation she got her parents.
00:24:09.98\00:24:11.81
But she it was trust okay.
00:24:11.85\00:24:13.48
Trust in Patrick?
00:24:13.52\00:24:14.85
Yes, trusting her husband,
you know to do the right thing,
00:24:14.88\00:24:19.15
you know, I guess apparently,
00:24:19.19\00:24:21.02
there were some
mistakes that were made.
00:24:21.06\00:24:22.89
Patrick made some mistakes, yes.
00:24:22.92\00:24:24.69
And from that point, the trust,
00:24:24.73\00:24:28.16
it was difficult
for her to really
00:24:28.20\00:24:31.63
give him complete
trust in their relationship.
00:24:31.67\00:24:35.24
So how do we regain the trust?
00:24:35.27\00:24:37.04
How do we do
that? That's a process.
00:24:37.07\00:24:38.47
It is a process,
and it takes time.
00:24:38.51\00:24:39.91
You know, it takes
time but in the process,
00:24:39.94\00:24:42.44
the most important
thing that you have to do
00:24:42.48\00:24:44.15
is understand
that it takes time,
00:24:44.18\00:24:46.92
and then you have
to be willing to work,
00:24:46.95\00:24:48.85
you have to pray about
the relationship consistently,
00:24:48.88\00:24:51.79
we're talking about establishing
00:24:51.82\00:24:53.62
a different way of
dealing with the situation.
00:24:53.66\00:24:57.26
So praying about it,
00:24:57.29\00:24:59.89
getting
involved with each other,
00:24:59.93\00:25:02.10
trusting each
other, is the goal,
00:25:02.13\00:25:05.07
the long term goal,
00:25:05.10\00:25:07.04
but we have to set
up some short term goals
00:25:07.07\00:25:09.37
to get to that long term goal.
00:25:09.40\00:25:10.74
I like that, you know,
00:25:10.77\00:25:12.11
'cause sometime
we want to jump up
00:25:12.14\00:25:13.48
right to the long term,
without taking the baby steps.
00:25:13.51\00:25:16.34
They're now attending church
together with their children,
00:25:16.38\00:25:19.55
studying the word.
00:25:19.58\00:25:21.22
Jessica is no longer arguing,
and fighting, and fussing,
00:25:21.25\00:25:26.12
her blood pressure is down.
00:25:26.15\00:25:28.32
Marriages,
00:25:28.36\00:25:30.73
when you're not dealing
with it in the right way
00:25:30.76\00:25:32.83
it can cause you
to become very ill.
00:25:32.86\00:25:34.56
And, listen also
think about Patrick,
00:25:34.60\00:25:37.30
you know, I mean,
00:25:37.33\00:25:38.93
after making some
mistakes in the relationship,
00:25:38.97\00:25:41.84
and then trying
to get to a point
00:25:41.87\00:25:44.97
where he could present himself
as the leader of the family,
00:25:45.01\00:25:50.41
as someone that can
be trusted, you know.
00:25:50.45\00:25:53.11
So that was a process
00:25:53.15\00:25:54.78
but now he feels
more comfortable,
00:25:54.82\00:25:56.62
and more motivated
to work through it.
00:25:56.65\00:25:59.29
So in becoming
the spiritual leader,
00:25:59.32\00:26:01.22
that's a high
calling on a man's life,
00:26:01.26\00:26:03.56
and be able to hold that
responsibility or that title.
00:26:03.59\00:26:07.43
I think that
Patrick also recognizes
00:26:07.46\00:26:09.76
he's married to a strong woman.
00:26:09.80\00:26:11.53
Arthur, now you saw some
characteristics in Jessica,
00:26:11.57\00:26:15.70
you know, being a
strong and being, you know,
00:26:15.74\00:26:18.41
forth right and just
being that woman, Amen.
00:26:18.44\00:26:21.74
There's nothing wrong
with being a strong woman.
00:26:21.78\00:26:24.15
Amen.
00:26:24.18\00:26:25.51
You know the problem
occurs when the projection
00:26:25.55\00:26:30.19
of being strong in every
aspect of the relationship
00:26:30.22\00:26:34.66
can create problems.
00:26:34.69\00:26:36.39
It's like
dealing with your husband
00:26:36.42\00:26:38.46
to continue to submit or not.
00:26:38.49\00:26:40.90
I feel that we must submit,
unto the Lord, both of us.
00:26:40.93\00:26:44.80
The Bible says
in Psalms 119:133,
00:26:44.83\00:26:49.37
"order my steps, in the word
00:26:49.40\00:26:51.24
and let not any
iniquity have dominion over me."
00:26:51.27\00:26:54.71
I thank God that
now Jessica and Patrick
00:26:54.74\00:26:57.41
are realizing
that God is the key.
00:26:57.45\00:26:59.08
I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:26:59.11\00:27:01.65
And thank you for being
with us on "Making it work"
00:27:01.68\00:27:04.05