Participants: Arthur Nowlin & Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Christopher and Cassandra
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000059A
|
00:30 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:32 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 00:34 And welcome to Making it Work. 00:36 How you doing, Arthur? 00:37 I'm doing great, Kim, how about you? 00:39 I'm good. 00:40 I'm excited about our topic today. 00:41 Okay. One More Drink. 00:44 Remember, we were dating 00:46 or shortly after we were married, 00:47 I'm sorry, that we were talking about substance abuse. 00:51 And I said, "I've never been around substance abuse 00:55 or I don't even know what that is. 00:57 What is substance abuse?" 00:58 And you turned to me and said, 01:00 "Kim, your father is a alcoholic, 01:04 that's substance abuse." 01:05 I was just outdone because I'm thinking, 01:09 you know, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, 01:12 you know, addictions like that. 01:14 Never thought as a little girl growing up 01:16 that seeing my father drink that was substance abuse. 01:21 Let's talk about it. 01:22 Well, I guess, a lot of times, 01:24 people don't have a clear understanding 01:26 of what's substance abuse. 01:28 And right now, 01:29 we're dealing with so many different things 01:33 in regards to really recognizing the problem. 01:37 And I think that's probably the most essential thing 01:40 that you have to understand 01:41 is that if you're doing a behavior and it's causing 01:45 a problem in your life and see, 01:47 we have to understand the problem. 01:49 The problem could be a health problem. 01:51 It could be a problem in your attitude and disposition. 01:57 You know, it could cause you problems in the workplace. 02:01 So when we will see all these problems occurring, 02:05 then we understand that something that you're doing 02:09 is causing you to really get into some issues 02:14 that can prevent you from having success in life. 02:17 It can definitely destroy your household. 02:19 I know it definitely caused my parents to divorce 02:23 because my father did drink. 02:25 And I thank God for the mother who raised us 02:29 not to use those type of... 02:33 it's just devastating, substance abuse. 02:35 I never realized 02:36 how devastating it is to the family. 02:38 Well, in the interview today, 02:39 we will be talking with Christopher and Cassandra. 02:44 One More Drink, 02:45 and how they both indulge in alcoholism, 02:49 and how they are trying now to allow the Holy Spirit 02:53 to get them free from this. 02:55 Let's go to Cassandra, and Christopher, 02:58 One More Drink. 03:00 Christopher and Cassandra McCain, 03:02 I want to thank you for selecting 03:04 Kim-Logan communication as your counseling clinic 03:07 and providing services. 03:08 Why did you make the call to come to counseling? 03:11 Actually, I made the call to come to counseling with you 03:14 because I heard that you have such a wonderful reputation 03:17 with Christian based marriages and you're Christian. 03:20 Your Christian based atmosphere is really what I appreciated. 03:25 And the fact that I've met you a few years ago, 03:28 I thought you were wonderful, and I thought you can help me 03:31 in my personal debers, and then once I got married, 03:35 I thought that you would be a good asset 03:36 to me and my husband. 03:38 Okay. 03:39 Tell us what's been going on, you know, 03:41 since we started therapeutic process 03:42 about eight months ago. 03:44 Tell us what's been going on in the relationship. 03:47 There's been some new events that we have to address. 03:49 What's been going on? 03:51 Well, one of the newer things 03:53 that we really need to address today 03:55 is our alcoholism that's what I'm gonna call it, 03:59 and this is gonna be honest. 04:01 My husband and I, we drink. 04:03 Sometimes we drink together, 04:05 and sometimes, we drink separately. 04:08 Even on my job, 04:09 I may have a drink after work or maybe on my lunch hour. 04:13 But sometimes, I feel as though I'm stressed, 04:16 and it can be any number of drinks. 04:19 I see. 04:20 Christopher, what about you? 04:23 How would you define a marriage, 04:24 and define your life right now? 04:27 Well, as far as my drinking is concerned, 04:32 it's kind of went over. 04:37 I indulge a little too much. 04:39 I do a little too much partying. 04:41 Okay. 04:42 You know, and it's kind of ran into my marriage, 04:48 and this... kind of knocking it off balance. 04:52 When you first started counseling, 04:54 there was no drinking when I first met you, 04:55 and then what has happened to trigger 04:58 the change in the behavior? 04:59 Well, I guess the struggles that I go through in life, 05:02 you know, I've been through a lot of things in my life 05:06 that I wasn't willing to... 05:09 ..really commit up to. 05:14 I couldn't really face 05:17 a lot of my demons from the back. 05:20 So but I mean, I've been able to face it. 05:24 I keep running back into it, you know. 05:26 So that was another reason that I was, we were able to, 05:33 me and my wife was able to get together 05:34 and to come to you to maybe find a better solution. 05:39 Okay. 05:41 Your wife called me, I'm sorry, your wife called me. 05:43 You're supposed to pick up her from work. 05:45 She came home, 05:46 you were intoxicated, passed out on the floor. 05:49 Yeah. Let's talk about that. 05:55 I don't really know what to say 05:57 because it was just another one of number of events 06:00 that I was going through. 06:03 Sometimes, I sit home, and I guess I just... 06:09 once again, go back in my thoughts 06:11 or some of the things I've did. 06:13 And I also look at this. 06:18 This is really basic when I look at. 06:22 I have a criminal past. 06:24 And in my past, you know, 06:29 I didn't sold drugs, I didn't did drugs, 06:34 I didn't got caught off with this, 06:36 I didn't rob banks, and, you know, 06:39 and I had to go do sometime. 06:42 And I did a lot of years in my life 06:44 since I was 12 years old, I've been doing time. 06:47 So this is basically all I really knew in my life. 06:51 So now I didn't got with this woman here, my wife, 06:56 and she is helping me stay on this path here. 07:00 And, you know, this is longest I've ever been home, 07:03 period, in my life. 07:05 This is longest I've been home. 07:07 How long have you been home? 07:08 I've been home three years now, 07:09 what, a little over three years? 07:11 Three years now, but I mean, 07:13 I wasn't home, never home three months. 07:17 I was gone. I'm out of there. 07:19 You know, I just did 22 years in my life in penitentiary. 07:23 You know, so, and then I come home, 07:25 and I'm trying to get a job, 07:26 and stuff and then I hear, 07:28 "Oh, no, we can't get you a job because of your criminal past." 07:31 You know, based up on what I've deal in the past, 07:34 so now, I'm sitting here, I'm trying to get a job, 07:36 I'm trying to do this. 07:38 You know, as you know, I was cooking down there, 07:41 and then they stopped me for a ticket 07:44 for what 20 years ago. 07:47 You know, with them under a 20 something year old ticket, 07:53 I'm now losing my job. Yes. 07:55 You know, and you notice we came 07:57 and talked to you about this. 07:59 So come on, then I go back so, 08:03 yeah, I sit home, now get me a drink 08:05 because I get depressed sometimes. 08:09 Yeah. 08:10 You know, and I don't mean to put it on my marriage, 08:13 but it's just, it just roll off into it. 08:17 So like I said sometime, in that idle time 08:20 really brings a lot of things back on me, you know. 08:24 You said that your wife has been 08:27 like some stability for you. 08:29 Yeah, she is. 08:30 You know, and you've also acknowledged the fact 08:35 that being home has been difficult. 08:38 So have you tried any other alternatives 08:43 outside of drinking? 08:44 You know, to eliminate some of the feelings of-- 08:48 You had to go a little deeper when you say it, 08:51 try something else, what do you mean? 08:53 You know, like, have you become involved in church? 08:58 Have you made a decision 09:01 to get involved into a community organization? 09:06 Have you attempted to 09:07 get involved into the organization 09:11 where for returning citizens? 09:13 They can assist you in finding employment. 09:17 Have you thought about any training programs? 09:21 Yes, I've, actually, I've tried all of these. 09:24 Okay. 09:25 All of the above, I have tried, what do you call it 09:30 He's doing navigation controls. Michigan Works. 09:31 Okay. 09:33 I went there, 09:34 they sent met to someplace else, 09:36 I went there. 09:37 That's how I ended up getting the job before. 09:40 You know, I've gone through them, 09:42 gone through their training. 09:43 You know, I try to get in college, 09:47 and they would tell me about something 09:50 that I didn't sign for, when I was a child, you know. 09:57 Into the military. The draft. 09:58 Okay, I don't even know about this, 09:59 remember I said, 10:01 "I've been locked up since I was 12 years old." 10:02 Man, it's so, how I would know something about this? 10:04 So now we tell them up, "I'm grown now, 10:07 you tell me something when I was a child, 10:09 so you're gonna stop me from further my education 10:12 based upon something that I was a child, 10:16 you know, so. 10:17 So let me ask, 10:20 I hear what you're saying about employment. 10:22 You know, that the center for everybody. 10:26 But let me ask you now, what's the most important think 10:32 that you need to change about your life? 10:34 Well, I need to change the way... 10:36 my thinking. 10:37 Okay. 10:39 Right now, you know, like I said, 10:40 the way I think now, 10:42 I've been trying to hold myself down, 10:45 I do a lot of little odd jobs, and stuff right now. 10:48 You know, just to stay above water. 10:51 You know, try to help my wife out here or there, you know, 10:57 but right now its like, 10:59 I get turned down so much on trying to do something, 11:03 I'm getting kind of stuck. 11:05 Even my wife even said, she would like, you know, 11:07 "It's like you just give up at there." 11:12 Say, like I come to you now, I'm trying to get a job, 11:14 and I can't get it here, 11:16 it's like, I just... the life would getting a... 11:19 these people are not trying... 11:21 they're not trying to hire me. 11:22 You know, remember 11:24 one person told me, said, man... 11:28 I mean he told me flat on, he said, 11:30 "The reason they're not hiring you 11:32 is because of your crime." 11:35 He said, "You could've killed somebody, 11:36 and it would've been better than what you did, you know." 11:40 And I had to just... 11:44 it took for me, just accept it. 11:47 I mean... 11:49 Let me ask another question, you know, 11:51 one of the things that you've indicated 11:54 was that you came to therapy 11:56 because you wanted a Christian therapy. 11:59 So how has that helped you in your relationship 12:03 in regards to dealing with aspect that 12:06 your husband is having such a difficult time? 12:09 It helps me greatly because there are times 12:13 where I can forget that I'm a Christian woman. 12:17 And it helps me 12:18 because Dr. Kim would bring me back to a level 12:21 where it helps me to remember that 12:24 we were put on this earth to help others. 12:28 And I appreciate you for that I do. 12:30 Thank you. 12:31 And it has helped 12:33 because she brings me to, sometimes, 12:35 she'll take me to write Bible verses. 12:37 She will take me to the Word, 12:40 and show me where I'm failing as a wife, 12:43 where as a Christian woman. 12:45 And then she will bring me back to the Lord constantly. 12:49 So, we are understanding that, you know, 12:55 what do you think you need to do 12:58 to improve your life at this point? 13:00 Okay, we are understanding that 13:02 you're trying to connect with your Christian world. 13:05 So there is something else that needs to be done 13:07 for you to improve that walk. 13:10 For me, I need to remain focused. 13:13 Okay. And I lack that. 13:16 I've acknowledged that I lack that 100 percent. 13:21 There comes a time 13:22 where I don't want to hear the Word 13:27 because of what he may be going through 13:29 or because of what I may be going through. 13:33 And that's basically I just need to remain focused. 13:37 What assigned the goals 13:38 that you have for your life together, Cassandra? 13:41 We've been talking about our treatment plan 13:44 and looking at our vision board. 13:48 We have six aspects on this vision board. 13:51 God, I know is first, you have a blended family, 13:55 you have a young child with in the home. 13:58 But my concern is when I see that 14:01 you are no longer drinking, 14:03 and then you come into therapy, and you say Dr. Kim, 14:06 and I've always ask you, "Have we had a relapse?" 14:08 "Yes, I'm drinking again." Then what is the trigger? 14:12 Because I refuse to believe it is a source, 14:16 but you've told just of accountable, 14:18 and you can't blame Christopher 14:20 for your decision making, or your choices. 14:23 So I need to know, why are you back drinking again 14:26 and we worked so hard to stop drinking. 14:30 Frustrated. 14:32 I get very frustrated because of finances. 14:36 I get frustrated because it could be 14:38 something happening on my job, mainly finances 14:44 because with me primarily being the sole support, 14:48 it does get frustrating. 14:50 So this week, we're working on again, 14:53 staying focused. 14:54 Yeah. Did you ever drink today? 14:56 Today, I haven't drank this morning. 14:58 I didn't stutter, did you ever drink today? 15:00 Hell, I'm not gonna stutter, yes, I did. 15:03 Christopher, did you drink today? 15:04 Yes, I did. Okay, why? 15:08 Because I don't know what type of questions are... 15:11 what's gonna be asked coming on the show. 15:14 I was scared. 15:15 Why were you scared when we walked through 15:16 and we talked about it? 15:18 We went talking about it but we also deal with, 15:20 how to approach matters... 15:22 Absolutely. 15:23 in a positive, in a spiritual, and Godly manner? 15:25 My phone is always available to you, you know that, 15:29 but I think that's another excuse. 15:31 No, that was really just 15:34 the anxiety of coming and saying, 15:36 "Wow, I'm about to go on TV and discuss my life." 15:41 And I said, "Okay, I need a drink 15:43 before I do this." 15:44 Did you pray before you came? 15:45 No, no. 15:47 So, I'll take a drink, but I won't pray. 15:49 Tell me how does that make sense? 15:51 And especially, what we've been working on. 15:54 Yes, in a Christian house hold, 15:55 it doesn't make sense that it doesn't. 15:59 Well, like I said, I did it, and I kind of before idea. 16:03 I think one of the things 16:04 that has to be taken into account 16:07 also is behavior. 16:10 When you're used to doing something for a period of time, 16:13 you know, that behavior is like engrained in us. 16:18 And it's easier for us 16:22 to fall back on negative behavior. 16:25 And we're talking about 16:27 it was easier for you to take a drink, 16:30 to pitch yourself in a state of being 16:33 where you felt that you'll be more relaxed, 16:36 and you'll be able to handle situation 16:38 of being upfront, you know. 16:40 Yes. 16:42 That's understandable. 16:43 But my concern is if this is something 16:48 that you guys want to do as far as changing 16:51 the way you deal with situations, 16:54 even though you're dealing with a difficult situation. 16:56 Being unemployed is something significant. 17:02 And it could be heartbreaking. 17:04 But what one thing I wanted to do is I want to acknowledge 17:07 that I admire the fact that you're still trying, 17:11 you're still doing something, you're out there, 17:14 and you're not just lying down. 17:15 There may be occasions when you drink too much 17:18 and it causes you to be in a stupor, 17:21 you know, that's unacceptable behavior. 17:24 And I'm saying that to you 17:25 because you're better than that. 17:28 In spite of what you may have experienced, 17:31 in spite of the difficulties that you faced, 17:34 you still can be a over comer, 17:36 but one of the things 17:38 that stands out for me is the fact, 17:41 and being overcoming, that means, 17:43 that you have to change the way you think, 17:46 and you have to put the work. 17:48 The work is really important, 17:50 put the work in to make your life better. 17:53 That's not a easy process. 17:56 But it is a process that can happen 17:59 if you become determined. 18:00 Your spirituality is really significant. 18:03 See if you put that to the forefront, 18:06 then that would also help you deal with the drinking. 18:10 And some people may have difficulty in doing that 18:15 because once again, the past behavior is, 18:20 when I reach a stressful situation, 18:24 then I need something to help me 18:26 deal with that stress. 18:28 Do you understand what I'm saying? 18:30 I'm gonna grants with you, absolutely. 18:32 Okay. 18:34 How can Arthur and I in this therapeutic process 18:38 help you to make it work? 18:41 Because we are here to help you make it work, 18:43 and if you continue on the same path, 18:45 it's not gonna work. 18:47 It's going to be destructive. 18:50 Absolutely, I'm gonna agree with you there as well. 18:52 So to answer your question, I think it's the best 18:56 that we continue in marital counseling with, 19:00 actually, the both of you. 19:03 As far as you and I want to wind up, 19:05 I still think we need to continue 19:07 our sessions together because you do help me. 19:10 There are times where, where am I drinking, 19:14 my drinking does become, 19:18 what's the word I'm looking for, 19:19 it becomes overwhelming even to me. 19:22 However, I do control my drinking. 19:25 And when I feel I've drank a little bit too much, 19:28 I'll put it down. 19:29 But we want to get to a point 19:31 where there is no alcoholism in the household, 19:34 not even having genitive with your own lives, you know. 19:37 Do you love each other? 19:39 Yes, I do. Absolutely, I love my husband. 19:40 You love each other? You love each other? 19:42 See, let me interject and say this. 19:46 See, my thing is this, 19:48 I need more of a spiritual awakening. 19:50 You know, we can go on and on, 19:54 and without the spirituality in my life, 19:58 what I've got in my life, 20:00 you know, on the front, 20:05 nothing is gonna really work for me. 20:07 So and then I can go here, I can go to this church, 20:11 go to that church, and go to this church, 20:13 what if I'm not filling them, 20:16 it's not really doing nothing for me, you know. 20:19 So it's like, when we see here 20:21 and we talk and we be so serious, 20:22 when you and I, we will be talking. 20:25 Okay, I can feel you better, you know, 20:29 than me going somewhere else. 20:32 I would be like, "What's your gender?" 20:35 You know, it's slight lately not really... 20:38 Or maybe what we can recommend one-on-one with you and Arthur, 20:42 and then also, a spiritual component 20:44 where I can help you, like a Bible study. 20:46 Right. 20:48 You know, a therapeutic Bible study, 20:49 to give you scriptures 20:50 that's gonna empower you, Christopher. 20:52 That gonna enhance your life and what God has called you. 20:55 We've been put here for a purpose. 20:57 And you all have a purpose in this life, 20:59 a great purpose. 21:01 And God wants to extend 21:02 that purpose throughout mankind. 21:05 But we can pick our own worst enemies. 21:07 But we're not going to look at that, 21:08 we're gonna look at 21:09 how we are measuring our self right now. 21:12 So on a scale, wait a minute, 0 to 10, 21:14 where are we therapeutically, right now? 21:16 Where are we? 21:17 So we all know where we're starting, 21:18 where we have a minute left, where are we? 21:21 For you and I, 21:22 I feel on our one-on-one sessions, 21:25 we are on at an eight. 21:27 And as far as our group therapy, 21:28 or marital status therapy, we are ground zero. 21:32 All right. 21:33 And we need to move forward. 21:34 I just think it's really important from what you said, 21:37 you know, and connecting with the spirituality, 21:40 it's really important that they work. 21:42 Remember, this is that the true emphasis 21:45 of you changing the behavior is going to take a lot of work. 21:50 And you have to make your mind up 21:53 that in spite of what you may face, 21:55 I'm not going to revert back to the old behavior 21:59 and that's calling, constant checking in, 22:02 and doing what's required to save your lives. 22:05 That's what it boils down to and your family's life. 22:07 Right. 22:09 Well, listen, we want to thank you both 22:10 for being with us on making it work 22:12 and we're going to be here for you, 22:14 we will see you this week for your counseling session. 22:17 God bless you both. 22:19 Thank you. Thank you. 22:20 Thank you. Definitely. 22:22 Thank you, Dr. Kim. You're welcome. 22:26 Arthur Christopher and Cassandra really shared 22:30 a lot of information with us, and with the audience. 22:31 Yes. Solutions. 22:33 What do we need to look at to try to help 22:36 our families and couples dealing with substance abuse? 22:40 Well, we have to understand the origin of the problem. 22:45 You know, when we think about this substance abuse issue, 22:50 what's causing them, and what's going on 22:54 to really make them focus on that? 22:58 The only way that they can find and relieve 23:01 is to do a certain things. 23:03 To smoke cigarettes, to drink alcohol, to use drugs, 23:09 then we need to really understand, 23:11 what's the motivation for them 23:13 to change to do that behavior, 23:15 instead of dealing with issues from a different perspective. 23:18 What are the gateway drugs? What are gateway drugs? 23:20 Well, gateway drugs is drugs that would lead you 23:24 into doing harder drugs, such as heroin and cocaine. 23:30 But, you know, right now there's a dispute about 23:35 cigarettes being a gateway drug 23:37 or marijuana being a gateway drug. 23:39 Right. 23:41 Because there's some concerns right now with the way that 23:45 the popularity of using marijuana 23:48 has continued to grow. 23:50 We're talking about some people saying that, 23:53 it's used from a disable purposes. 23:56 And so, that it's not really a gateway drug. 23:58 When you say disabled purposes, 23:59 you're talking about medical use. 24:01 Medical use, that's really a big thing, 24:02 medical marijuana is really, really something bad. 24:07 It's caused a lot of concern, 24:10 but it's also been accepted by a lot of states that 24:17 who have moved towards accepting medical marijuana. 24:22 Legalizing it. Yes. 24:23 Accepting it as something 24:25 that's viable for their communities. 24:27 So how do we get around this, you know, 24:29 when we have our families 24:31 who are truly seeking God's will, 24:33 but yet at the same time, they have these urges to drink? 24:36 They have the desire to drink or use different aspects that 24:41 will lead to the destruction of their family. 24:43 As we saw, what's going on with Christopher and Cassandra. 24:45 Well, once again, 24:47 we have to understand the origin of the problem. 24:50 In a lot of cases, we're talking about peer pressure, 24:53 you know, I mean, we're talking about people 24:56 that maybe in middle school that start drinking 24:59 because they are surrounded 25:02 by people that drink, go in their household 25:05 or their relationships with their peers. 25:10 They could be challenged, you know, 25:12 you haven't done this, you know. 25:14 Have you ever participated in drinking beer or wine, 25:19 you know, you can go from one aspect 25:21 to up to another level 25:23 where, you know, before you know it, 25:25 that person may be drinking on a consistent basis. 25:29 I thank the Lord that my... 25:30 the Lord delivered my father, 25:32 you know, before he passed away of alcoholism. 25:36 But I saw how it impacted his life. 25:39 The damage. 25:40 The damage it did to him physically and emotionally. 25:42 That was done, you know, poor decision making, you know, 25:47 we're talking about and your particular family unit 25:51 that the alcohol had been, was devastating 25:56 that it cost divorce. 25:57 It cost divorce. 25:59 It caused poor relationship 26:00 between your mother and your father. 26:03 She just got to a point 26:04 where she couldn't accept that behavior anymore 26:07 because your father had made poor decisions. 26:10 So with Cassandra, she's at a point, 26:12 you know, where, "I want to stop," you know, 26:14 that's why she sought our counseling. 26:16 And Christopher, he's trying but he'll go two or three days, 26:20 and then you relapse. 26:21 What causes the relapse? 26:22 Well, let's look at Christopher from a different perspective. 26:25 We're talking about Christopher 26:27 indicating on the show that he was an alcoholic 26:32 because of his association with his criminal background. 26:39 And not feeling that the support 26:42 that he was getting 26:44 was going to be something that he can overcome. 26:47 So he continued to drink. 26:48 I see, so again having the ability to trust 26:52 in a lot of Proverbs 3:5, and six. 26:54 "Trust in the Lord with all thy heart 26:55 and lean not to thy own understanding. 26:58 And in all that ways acknowledge Him, 27:00 He should direct that path." 27:01 What should Cassandra do now? What is her role now? 27:06 Well, because Cassandra is also drinking. 27:09 She needs to stop drinking. 27:11 She needs to make a decision, you know. 27:13 And then and she needs to insist 27:16 that Christopher also make a decision to stop drinking. 27:22 Well, it is our desire for all of us to live holy 27:26 and good lives for Christ. 27:27 Work hard. 27:28 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. 27:30 I'm Arthur Nowlin. 27:31 God bless. |
Revised 2016-06-02