Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:00:30.13\00:00:32.66
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:00:32.69\00:00:34.06
And welcome to Making it Work.
00:00:34.10\00:00:36.33
How you doing, Arthur?
00:00:36.36\00:00:37.70
I'm doing great,
Kim, how about you?
00:00:37.73\00:00:39.07
I'm good.
00:00:39.10\00:00:40.44
I'm excited
about our topic today.
00:00:40.47\00:00:41.80
Okay. One More Drink.
00:00:41.84\00:00:44.31
Remember, we were dating
00:00:44.34\00:00:46.01
or shortly
after we were married,
00:00:46.04\00:00:47.91
I'm sorry, that we were
talking about substance abuse.
00:00:47.94\00:00:51.68
And I said, "I've never
been around substance abuse
00:00:51.71\00:00:55.28
or I don't even
know what that is.
00:00:55.32\00:00:57.39
What is substance abuse?"
00:00:57.42\00:00:58.95
And you turned to me and said,
00:00:58.99\00:01:00.46
"Kim, your
father is a alcoholic,
00:01:00.49\00:01:04.13
that's substance abuse."
00:01:04.16\00:01:05.63
I was just outdone
because I'm thinking,
00:01:05.66\00:01:09.00
you know, heroin,
cocaine, marijuana,
00:01:09.03\00:01:12.33
you know, addictions like that.
00:01:12.37\00:01:14.54
Never thought as a
little girl growing up
00:01:14.57\00:01:16.81
that seeing my father
drink that was substance abuse.
00:01:16.84\00:01:21.11
Let's talk about it.
00:01:21.14\00:01:22.48
Well, I guess, a lot of times,
00:01:22.51\00:01:24.61
people don't have
a clear understanding
00:01:24.65\00:01:26.72
of what's substance abuse.
00:01:26.75\00:01:28.55
And right now,
00:01:28.58\00:01:29.92
we're dealing with
so many different things
00:01:29.95\00:01:33.29
in regards to really
recognizing the problem.
00:01:33.32\00:01:37.46
And I think that's probably
the most essential thing
00:01:37.49\00:01:40.10
that you have to understand
00:01:40.13\00:01:41.83
is that if you're doing
a behavior and it's causing
00:01:41.86\00:01:45.53
a problem in your life and see,
00:01:45.57\00:01:47.17
we have to
understand the problem.
00:01:47.20\00:01:49.27
The problem could
be a health problem.
00:01:49.30\00:01:51.74
It could be a problem in
your attitude and disposition.
00:01:51.77\00:01:57.58
You know, it could cause
you problems in the workplace.
00:01:57.61\00:02:01.55
So when we will see all
these problems occurring,
00:02:01.58\00:02:05.12
then we understand that
something that you're doing
00:02:05.15\00:02:09.92
is causing you to
really get into some issues
00:02:09.96\00:02:14.56
that can prevent you
from having success in life.
00:02:14.60\00:02:17.93
It can definitely
destroy your household.
00:02:17.97\00:02:19.43
I know it definitely
caused my parents to divorce
00:02:19.47\00:02:23.41
because my father did drink.
00:02:23.44\00:02:25.71
And I thank God for
the mother who raised us
00:02:25.74\00:02:29.21
not to use those type of...
00:02:29.24\00:02:33.15
it's just
devastating, substance abuse.
00:02:33.18\00:02:35.15
I never realized
00:02:35.18\00:02:36.52
how devastating
it is to the family.
00:02:36.55\00:02:38.45
Well, in the interview today,
00:02:38.49\00:02:39.82
we will be talking with
Christopher and Cassandra.
00:02:39.85\00:02:44.36
One More Drink,
00:02:44.39\00:02:45.89
and how they both
indulge in alcoholism,
00:02:45.93\00:02:49.60
and how they are trying
now to allow the Holy Spirit
00:02:49.63\00:02:53.57
to get them free from this.
00:02:53.60\00:02:55.47
Let's go to
Cassandra, and Christopher,
00:02:55.50\00:02:58.17
One More Drink.
00:02:58.21\00:03:00.84
Christopher and
Cassandra McCain,
00:03:00.88\00:03:02.88
I want to thank
you for selecting
00:03:02.91\00:03:04.25
Kim-Logan communication
as your counseling clinic
00:03:04.28\00:03:07.02
and providing services.
00:03:07.05\00:03:08.62
Why did you make the
call to come to counseling?
00:03:08.65\00:03:11.29
Actually, I made the call
to come to counseling with you
00:03:11.32\00:03:13.99
because I heard that you
have such a wonderful reputation
00:03:14.02\00:03:17.16
with Christian based
marriages and you're Christian.
00:03:17.19\00:03:20.66
Your Christian based atmosphere
is really what I appreciated.
00:03:20.70\00:03:25.70
And the fact that I've
met you a few years ago,
00:03:25.73\00:03:28.44
I thought you were wonderful,
and I thought you can help me
00:03:28.47\00:03:31.51
in my personal debers,
and then once I got married,
00:03:31.54\00:03:35.04
I thought that you
would be a good asset
00:03:35.08\00:03:36.91
to me and my husband.
00:03:36.95\00:03:38.28
Okay.
00:03:38.31\00:03:39.65
Tell us what's
been going on, you know,
00:03:39.68\00:03:41.02
since we started
therapeutic process
00:03:41.05\00:03:42.68
about eight months ago.
00:03:42.72\00:03:44.29
Tell us what's been
going on in the relationship.
00:03:44.32\00:03:47.26
There's been some new
events that we have to address.
00:03:47.29\00:03:49.66
What's been going on?
00:03:49.69\00:03:51.06
Well, one of the newer things
00:03:51.09\00:03:53.09
that we really
need to address today
00:03:53.13\00:03:55.66
is our alcoholism
that's what I'm gonna call it,
00:03:55.70\00:03:59.63
and this is gonna be honest.
00:03:59.67\00:04:01.57
My husband and I, we drink.
00:04:01.60\00:04:03.20
Sometimes we drink together,
00:04:03.24\00:04:05.01
and sometimes,
we drink separately.
00:04:05.04\00:04:08.41
Even on my job,
00:04:08.44\00:04:09.78
I may have a drink after
work or maybe on my lunch hour.
00:04:09.81\00:04:13.78
But sometimes, I feel
as though I'm stressed,
00:04:13.82\00:04:16.35
and it can be
any number of drinks.
00:04:16.38\00:04:19.52
I see.
00:04:19.55\00:04:20.89
Christopher, what about you?
00:04:20.92\00:04:23.49
How would you define a marriage,
00:04:23.53\00:04:24.89
and define your life right now?
00:04:24.93\00:04:27.16
Well, as far as my
drinking is concerned,
00:04:27.20\00:04:32.17
it's kind of went over.
00:04:32.20\00:04:37.04
I indulge a little too much.
00:04:37.07\00:04:39.37
I do a little too much partying.
00:04:39.41\00:04:41.48
Okay.
00:04:41.51\00:04:42.84
You know, and it's kind
of ran into my marriage,
00:04:42.88\00:04:48.32
and this... kind of
knocking it off balance.
00:04:48.35\00:04:52.92
When you first
started counseling,
00:04:52.95\00:04:54.29
there was no
drinking when I first met you,
00:04:54.32\00:04:55.66
and then what has
happened to trigger
00:04:55.69\00:04:57.99
the change in the behavior?
00:04:58.03\00:04:59.43
Well, I guess the struggles
that I go through in life,
00:04:59.46\00:05:02.33
you know, I've been through
a lot of things in my life
00:05:02.36\00:05:06.20
that I wasn't willing to...
00:05:06.23\00:05:09.67
..really commit up to.
00:05:09.70\00:05:14.78
I couldn't really face
00:05:14.81\00:05:17.38
a lot of my
demons from the back.
00:05:17.41\00:05:20.68
So but I mean, I've
been able to face it.
00:05:20.72\00:05:24.09
I keep running
back into it, you know.
00:05:24.12\00:05:26.79
So that was another reason
that I was, we were able to,
00:05:26.82\00:05:32.99
me and my wife was
able to get together
00:05:33.03\00:05:34.46
and to come to you to
maybe find a better solution.
00:05:34.50\00:05:39.67
Okay.
00:05:39.70\00:05:41.04
Your wife called me, I'm
sorry, your wife called me.
00:05:41.07\00:05:43.44
You're supposed to
pick up her from work.
00:05:43.47\00:05:45.47
She came home,
00:05:45.51\00:05:46.94
you were intoxicated,
passed out on the floor.
00:05:46.98\00:05:49.64
Yeah. Let's talk about that.
00:05:49.68\00:05:51.05
I don't really know what to say
00:05:55.88\00:05:57.65
because it was just
another one of number of events
00:05:57.69\00:06:00.89
that I was going through.
00:06:00.92\00:06:03.09
Sometimes, I sit
home, and I guess I just...
00:06:03.12\00:06:09.36
once again, go
back in my thoughts
00:06:09.40\00:06:11.33
or some of the things I've did.
00:06:11.37\00:06:13.60
And I also look at this.
00:06:13.64\00:06:18.37
This is really
basic when I look at.
00:06:18.41\00:06:22.14
I have a criminal past.
00:06:22.18\00:06:24.91
And in my past, you know,
00:06:24.95\00:06:29.18
I didn't sold
drugs, I didn't did drugs,
00:06:29.22\00:06:34.06
I didn't got
caught off with this,
00:06:34.09\00:06:36.76
I didn't rob
banks, and, you know,
00:06:36.79\00:06:39.43
and I had to go do sometime.
00:06:39.46\00:06:42.73
And I did a lot
of years in my life
00:06:42.76\00:06:44.63
since I was 12 years
old, I've been doing time.
00:06:44.67\00:06:47.24
So this is basically all
I really knew in my life.
00:06:47.27\00:06:51.44
So now I didn't got with
this woman here, my wife,
00:06:51.47\00:06:56.44
and she is helping me
stay on this path here.
00:06:56.48\00:07:00.95
And, you know, this is
longest I've ever been home,
00:07:00.98\00:07:03.25
period, in my life.
00:07:03.28\00:07:05.65
This is longest I've been home.
00:07:05.69\00:07:07.02
How long have you been home?
00:07:07.06\00:07:08.39
I've been home three years now,
00:07:08.42\00:07:09.76
what, a little over three years?
00:07:09.79\00:07:11.16
Three years now, but I mean,
00:07:11.19\00:07:13.73
I wasn't home,
never home three months.
00:07:13.76\00:07:17.37
I was gone. I'm out of there.
00:07:17.40\00:07:19.77
You know, I just did 22 years
in my life in penitentiary.
00:07:19.80\00:07:23.20
You know, so,
and then I come home,
00:07:23.24\00:07:25.01
and I'm trying to get a job,
00:07:25.04\00:07:26.37
and stuff and then I hear,
00:07:26.41\00:07:27.98
"Oh, no, we can't get you a job
because of your criminal past."
00:07:28.01\00:07:31.71
You know, based up on
what I've deal in the past,
00:07:31.75\00:07:34.42
so now, I'm sitting
here, I'm trying to get a job,
00:07:34.45\00:07:36.89
I'm trying to do this.
00:07:36.92\00:07:38.25
You know, as you know,
I was cooking down there,
00:07:38.29\00:07:41.69
and then they
stopped me for a ticket
00:07:41.72\00:07:44.56
for what 20 years ago.
00:07:44.59\00:07:47.56
You know, with them under a
20 something year old ticket,
00:07:47.60\00:07:53.40
I'm now losing my job. Yes.
00:07:53.44\00:07:55.44
You know, and you notice we came
00:07:55.47\00:07:57.81
and talked to you about this.
00:07:57.84\00:07:59.64
So come on, then I go back so,
00:07:59.67\00:08:03.65
yeah, I sit home,
now get me a drink
00:08:03.68\00:08:05.55
because I get
depressed sometimes.
00:08:05.58\00:08:09.25
Yeah.
00:08:09.28\00:08:10.62
You know, and I don't
mean to put it on my marriage,
00:08:10.65\00:08:12.99
but it's just, it
just roll off into it.
00:08:13.02\00:08:17.06
So like I said
sometime, in that idle time
00:08:17.09\00:08:20.06
really brings a lot of
things back on me, you know.
00:08:20.10\00:08:24.20
You said that your wife has been
00:08:24.23\00:08:27.87
like some stability for you.
00:08:27.90\00:08:29.37
Yeah, she is.
00:08:29.40\00:08:30.74
You know, and you've
also acknowledged the fact
00:08:30.77\00:08:35.51
that being home
has been difficult.
00:08:35.54\00:08:38.91
So have you tried
any other alternatives
00:08:38.95\00:08:43.02
outside of drinking?
00:08:43.05\00:08:44.45
You know, to eliminate
some of the feelings of--
00:08:44.49\00:08:48.86
You had to go a little
deeper when you say it,
00:08:48.89\00:08:51.93
try something
else, what do you mean?
00:08:51.96\00:08:53.60
You know, like, have you
become involved in church?
00:08:53.63\00:08:58.87
Have you made a decision
00:08:58.90\00:09:01.34
to get involved into a
community organization?
00:09:01.37\00:09:06.07
Have you attempted to
00:09:06.11\00:09:07.88
get involved
into the organization
00:09:07.91\00:09:11.61
where for returning citizens?
00:09:11.65\00:09:13.92
They can assist you
in finding employment.
00:09:13.95\00:09:17.89
Have you thought
about any training programs?
00:09:17.92\00:09:21.39
Yes, I've, actually,
I've tried all of these.
00:09:21.42\00:09:24.29
Okay.
00:09:24.33\00:09:25.66
All of the above, I have
tried, what do you call it
00:09:25.69\00:09:30.50
He's doing navigation
controls. Michigan Works.
00:09:30.53\00:09:31.87
Okay.
00:09:31.90\00:09:33.23
I went there,
00:09:33.27\00:09:34.60
they sent met to someplace else,
00:09:34.64\00:09:35.97
I went there.
00:09:36.00\00:09:37.34
That's how I ended up
getting the job before.
00:09:37.37\00:09:40.21
You know, I've
gone through them,
00:09:40.24\00:09:42.34
gone through their training.
00:09:42.38\00:09:43.91
You know, I try
to get in college,
00:09:43.95\00:09:47.68
and they would
tell me about something
00:09:47.72\00:09:50.62
that I didn't sign for,
when I was a child, you know.
00:09:50.65\00:09:57.03
Into the military. The draft.
00:09:57.06\00:09:58.56
Okay, I don't
even know about this,
00:09:58.59\00:09:59.93
remember I said,
00:09:59.96\00:10:01.30
"I've been locked up
since I was 12 years old."
00:10:01.33\00:10:02.66
Man, it's so, how I would
know something about this?
00:10:02.70\00:10:04.70
So now we tell
them up, "I'm grown now,
00:10:04.73\00:10:07.64
you tell me
something when I was a child,
00:10:07.67\00:10:09.54
so you're gonna stop me
from further my education
00:10:09.57\00:10:12.74
based upon
something that I was a child,
00:10:12.77\00:10:15.98
you know, so.
00:10:16.01\00:10:17.38
So let me ask,
00:10:17.41\00:10:20.72
I hear what you're
saying about employment.
00:10:20.75\00:10:22.88
You know, that the
center for everybody.
00:10:22.92\00:10:26.19
But let me ask you now,
what's the most important think
00:10:26.22\00:10:32.33
that you need to
change about your life?
00:10:32.36\00:10:34.70
Well, I need to
change the way...
00:10:34.73\00:10:36.23
my thinking.
00:10:36.26\00:10:37.60
Okay.
00:10:37.63\00:10:38.97
Right now, you
know, like I said,
00:10:39.00\00:10:40.80
the way I think now,
00:10:40.84\00:10:42.80
I've been trying
to hold myself down,
00:10:42.84\00:10:45.74
I do a lot of little odd
jobs, and stuff right now.
00:10:45.77\00:10:48.64
You know, just
to stay above water.
00:10:48.68\00:10:51.88
You know, try to help my wife
out here or there, you know,
00:10:51.91\00:10:57.32
but right now its like,
00:10:57.35\00:10:59.89
I get turned down so much
on trying to do something,
00:10:59.92\00:11:03.26
I'm getting kind of stuck.
00:11:03.29\00:11:05.09
Even my wife even said,
she would like, you know,
00:11:05.13\00:11:07.80
"It's like you
just give up at there."
00:11:07.83\00:11:12.23
Say, like I come to you
now, I'm trying to get a job,
00:11:12.27\00:11:14.64
and I can't get it here,
00:11:14.67\00:11:16.14
it's like, I just...
the life would getting a...
00:11:16.17\00:11:19.84
these people are not trying...
00:11:19.87\00:11:21.21
they're not trying to hire me.
00:11:21.24\00:11:22.64
You know, remember
00:11:22.68\00:11:24.01
one person told me, said, man...
00:11:24.05\00:11:28.02
I mean he told
me flat on, he said,
00:11:28.05\00:11:30.39
"The reason
they're not hiring you
00:11:30.42\00:11:32.09
is because of your crime."
00:11:32.12\00:11:34.99
He said, "You
could've killed somebody,
00:11:35.02\00:11:36.73
and it would've been better
than what you did, you know."
00:11:36.76\00:11:40.63
And I had to just...
00:11:40.66\00:11:44.63
it took for me, just accept it.
00:11:44.67\00:11:47.90
I mean...
00:11:47.94\00:11:49.27
Let me ask another
question, you know,
00:11:49.30\00:11:51.87
one of the things
that you've indicated
00:11:51.91\00:11:54.11
was that you came to therapy
00:11:54.14\00:11:56.71
because you wanted
a Christian therapy.
00:11:56.75\00:11:59.51
So how has that helped
you in your relationship
00:11:59.55\00:12:03.39
in regards to
dealing with aspect that
00:12:03.42\00:12:06.35
your husband is
having such a difficult time?
00:12:06.39\00:12:09.32
It helps me greatly
because there are times
00:12:09.36\00:12:13.03
where I can forget
that I'm a Christian woman.
00:12:13.06\00:12:17.27
And it helps me
00:12:17.30\00:12:18.73
because Dr. Kim would
bring me back to a level
00:12:18.77\00:12:21.94
where it helps
me to remember that
00:12:21.97\00:12:24.07
we were put on this
earth to help others.
00:12:24.11\00:12:28.04
And I appreciate
you for that I do.
00:12:28.08\00:12:30.25
Thank you.
00:12:30.28\00:12:31.61
And it has helped
00:12:31.65\00:12:33.28
because she
brings me to, sometimes,
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.78
she'll take me to
write Bible verses.
00:12:35.82\00:12:37.89
She will take me to the Word,
00:12:37.92\00:12:40.52
and show me where
I'm failing as a wife,
00:12:40.56\00:12:43.22
where as a Christian woman.
00:12:43.26\00:12:44.99
And then she will bring me
back to the Lord constantly.
00:12:45.03\00:12:49.76
So, we are
understanding that, you know,
00:12:49.80\00:12:55.24
what do you think you need to do
00:12:55.27\00:12:58.11
to improve your
life at this point?
00:12:58.14\00:13:00.58
Okay, we are understanding that
00:13:00.61\00:13:02.58
you're trying to connect
with your Christian world.
00:13:02.61\00:13:05.05
So there is something
else that needs to be done
00:13:05.08\00:13:07.88
for you to improve that walk.
00:13:07.92\00:13:10.59
For me, I need
to remain focused.
00:13:10.62\00:13:13.76
Okay. And I lack that.
00:13:13.79\00:13:16.83
I've acknowledged that
I lack that 100 percent.
00:13:16.86\00:13:21.16
There comes a time
00:13:21.20\00:13:22.53
where I don't
want to hear the Word
00:13:22.56\00:13:26.97
because of what he
may be going through
00:13:27.00\00:13:29.84
or because of what I
may be going through.
00:13:29.87\00:13:33.01
And that's basically I
just need to remain focused.
00:13:33.04\00:13:37.08
What assigned the goals
00:13:37.11\00:13:38.78
that you have for your
life together, Cassandra?
00:13:38.81\00:13:41.78
We've been talking
about our treatment plan
00:13:41.82\00:13:44.82
and looking at our vision board.
00:13:44.85\00:13:48.09
We have six aspects
on this vision board.
00:13:48.12\00:13:51.33
God, I know is first,
you have a blended family,
00:13:51.36\00:13:55.56
you have a young
child with in the home.
00:13:55.60\00:13:58.23
But my concern
is when I see that
00:13:58.27\00:14:01.20
you are no longer drinking,
00:14:01.24\00:14:03.07
and then you come into
therapy, and you say Dr. Kim,
00:14:03.10\00:14:06.11
and I've always ask
you, "Have we had a relapse?"
00:14:06.14\00:14:08.41
"Yes, I'm drinking again."
Then what is the trigger?
00:14:08.44\00:14:12.45
Because I refuse to
believe it is a source,
00:14:12.48\00:14:16.18
but you've told
just of accountable,
00:14:16.22\00:14:18.55
and you can't blame Christopher
00:14:18.59\00:14:20.46
for your decision
making, or your choices.
00:14:20.49\00:14:23.16
So I need to know, why
are you back drinking again
00:14:23.19\00:14:26.70
and we worked so
hard to stop drinking.
00:14:26.73\00:14:30.47
Frustrated.
00:14:30.50\00:14:32.30
I get very
frustrated because of finances.
00:14:32.33\00:14:36.10
I get frustrated
because it could be
00:14:36.14\00:14:38.57
something happening on
my job, mainly finances
00:14:38.61\00:14:44.61
because with me primarily
being the sole support,
00:14:44.65\00:14:48.12
it does get frustrating.
00:14:48.15\00:14:50.79
So this week,
we're working on again,
00:14:50.82\00:14:53.25
staying focused.
00:14:53.29\00:14:54.62
Yeah. Did you ever drink today?
00:14:54.66\00:14:56.76
Today, I haven't
drank this morning.
00:14:56.79\00:14:58.16
I didn't stutter,
did you ever drink today?
00:14:58.19\00:15:00.76
Hell, I'm not gonna
stutter, yes, I did.
00:15:00.80\00:15:03.00
Christopher,
did you drink today?
00:15:03.03\00:15:04.90
Yes, I did. Okay, why?
00:15:04.93\00:15:08.40
Because I don't know
what type of questions are...
00:15:08.44\00:15:11.37
what's gonna be
asked coming on the show.
00:15:11.41\00:15:14.04
I was scared.
00:15:14.08\00:15:15.54
Why were you scared
when we walked through
00:15:15.58\00:15:16.95
and we talked about it?
00:15:16.98\00:15:18.31
We went talking about
it but we also deal with,
00:15:18.35\00:15:20.62
how to approach matters...
00:15:20.65\00:15:22.32
Absolutely.
00:15:22.35\00:15:23.69
in a positive, in a
spiritual, and Godly manner?
00:15:23.72\00:15:25.92
My phone is always
available to you, you know that,
00:15:25.95\00:15:29.42
but I think
that's another excuse.
00:15:29.46\00:15:31.56
No, that was really just
00:15:31.59\00:15:34.66
the anxiety of
coming and saying,
00:15:34.70\00:15:36.93
"Wow, I'm about to go
on TV and discuss my life."
00:15:36.97\00:15:41.10
And I said,
"Okay, I need a drink
00:15:41.14\00:15:43.00
before I do this."
00:15:43.04\00:15:44.37
Did you pray before you came?
00:15:44.41\00:15:45.74
No, no.
00:15:45.77\00:15:47.11
So, I'll take a
drink, but I won't pray.
00:15:47.14\00:15:49.51
Tell me how
does that make sense?
00:15:49.54\00:15:51.95
And especially, what
we've been working on.
00:15:51.98\00:15:54.02
Yes, in a Christian house hold,
00:15:54.05\00:15:55.85
it doesn't make
sense that it doesn't.
00:15:55.88\00:15:59.59
Well, like I said, I did
it, and I kind of before idea.
00:15:59.62\00:16:03.32
I think one of the things
00:16:03.36\00:16:04.79
that has to be
taken into account
00:16:04.83\00:16:07.73
also is behavior.
00:16:07.76\00:16:10.40
When you're used to doing
something for a period of time,
00:16:10.43\00:16:13.67
you know, that behavior
is like engrained in us.
00:16:13.70\00:16:17.97
And it's easier for us
00:16:18.01\00:16:22.68
to fall back on
negative behavior.
00:16:22.71\00:16:25.78
And we're talking about
00:16:25.81\00:16:27.18
it was easier for
you to take a drink,
00:16:27.22\00:16:30.69
to pitch yourself
in a state of being
00:16:30.72\00:16:33.15
where you felt that
you'll be more relaxed,
00:16:33.19\00:16:36.29
and you'll be able
to handle situation
00:16:36.32\00:16:38.89
of being upfront, you know.
00:16:38.93\00:16:40.46
Yes.
00:16:40.50\00:16:42.20
That's understandable.
00:16:42.23\00:16:43.83
But my concern is
if this is something
00:16:43.87\00:16:48.00
that you guys want
to do as far as changing
00:16:48.04\00:16:51.84
the way you
deal with situations,
00:16:51.87\00:16:53.98
even though you're dealing
with a difficult situation.
00:16:54.01\00:16:56.64
Being unemployed is
something significant.
00:16:56.68\00:17:02.05
And it could be heartbreaking.
00:17:02.08\00:17:04.25
But what one thing I wanted
to do is I want to acknowledge
00:17:04.29\00:17:07.42
that I admire the fact
that you're still trying,
00:17:07.46\00:17:11.06
you're still doing
something, you're out there,
00:17:11.09\00:17:13.96
and you're not just lying down.
00:17:14.00\00:17:15.76
There may be occasions
when you drink too much
00:17:15.80\00:17:18.83
and it causes you
to be in a stupor,
00:17:18.87\00:17:21.57
you know, that's
unacceptable behavior.
00:17:21.60\00:17:24.37
And I'm saying that to you
00:17:24.41\00:17:25.74
because you're better than that.
00:17:25.77\00:17:28.01
In spite of what you
may have experienced,
00:17:28.04\00:17:31.08
in spite of the
difficulties that you faced,
00:17:31.11\00:17:34.12
you still can be a over comer,
00:17:34.15\00:17:36.52
but one of the things
00:17:36.55\00:17:38.05
that stands out
for me is the fact,
00:17:38.09\00:17:41.56
and being
overcoming, that means,
00:17:41.59\00:17:43.63
that you have to
change the way you think,
00:17:43.66\00:17:46.23
and you have to put the work.
00:17:46.26\00:17:48.33
The work is really important,
00:17:48.36\00:17:50.00
put the work in to
make your life better.
00:17:50.03\00:17:53.60
That's not a easy process.
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.97
But it is a
process that can happen
00:17:56.00\00:17:58.97
if you become determined.
00:17:59.01\00:18:00.58
Your spirituality
is really significant.
00:18:00.61\00:18:03.68
See if you put
that to the forefront,
00:18:03.71\00:18:06.41
then that would also help
you deal with the drinking.
00:18:06.45\00:18:10.85
And some people may
have difficulty in doing that
00:18:10.89\00:18:15.36
because once again,
the past behavior is,
00:18:15.39\00:18:20.10
when I reach a
stressful situation,
00:18:20.13\00:18:24.37
then I need something to help me
00:18:24.40\00:18:26.47
deal with that stress.
00:18:26.50\00:18:28.74
Do you
understand what I'm saying?
00:18:28.77\00:18:30.27
I'm gonna grants
with you, absolutely.
00:18:30.31\00:18:32.94
Okay.
00:18:32.97\00:18:34.31
How can Arthur and I in
this therapeutic process
00:18:34.34\00:18:38.31
help you to make it work?
00:18:38.35\00:18:40.98
Because we are here
to help you make it work,
00:18:41.02\00:18:43.52
and if you
continue on the same path,
00:18:43.55\00:18:45.95
it's not gonna work.
00:18:45.99\00:18:47.56
It's going to be destructive.
00:18:47.59\00:18:50.49
Absolutely, I'm gonna
agree with you there as well.
00:18:50.53\00:18:52.93
So to answer your
question, I think it's the best
00:18:52.96\00:18:56.53
that we continue in
marital counseling with,
00:18:56.56\00:18:59.97
actually, the both of you.
00:19:00.00\00:19:03.27
As far as you and
I want to wind up,
00:19:03.30\00:19:05.74
I still think
we need to continue
00:19:05.77\00:19:07.38
our sessions together
because you do help me.
00:19:07.41\00:19:10.91
There are times
where, where am I drinking,
00:19:10.95\00:19:14.45
my drinking does become,
00:19:14.48\00:19:18.12
what's the word I'm looking for,
00:19:18.15\00:19:19.49
it becomes
overwhelming even to me.
00:19:19.52\00:19:22.12
However, I do
control my drinking.
00:19:22.16\00:19:24.99
And when I feel I've
drank a little bit too much,
00:19:25.03\00:19:28.16
I'll put it down.
00:19:28.20\00:19:29.80
But we want to get to a point
00:19:29.83\00:19:31.17
where there is no
alcoholism in the household,
00:19:31.20\00:19:34.40
not even having genitive
with your own lives, you know.
00:19:34.44\00:19:37.87
Do you love each other?
00:19:37.91\00:19:39.57
Yes, I do.
Absolutely, I love my husband.
00:19:39.61\00:19:40.94
You love each
other? You love each other?
00:19:40.98\00:19:42.51
See, let me
interject and say this.
00:19:42.54\00:19:46.68
See, my thing is this,
00:19:46.72\00:19:48.05
I need more of a
spiritual awakening.
00:19:48.08\00:19:50.89
You know, we can go on and on,
00:19:50.92\00:19:54.42
and without the
spirituality in my life,
00:19:54.46\00:19:58.23
what I've got in my life,
00:19:58.26\00:20:00.43
you know, on the front,
00:20:00.46\00:20:05.33
nothing is gonna
really work for me.
00:20:05.37\00:20:07.04
So and then I can go
here, I can go to this church,
00:20:07.07\00:20:11.24
go to that church,
and go to this church,
00:20:11.27\00:20:12.97
what if I'm not filling them,
00:20:13.01\00:20:16.34
it's not really doing
nothing for me, you know.
00:20:16.38\00:20:19.15
So it's like, when we see here
00:20:19.18\00:20:21.48
and we talk and
we be so serious,
00:20:21.52\00:20:22.92
when you and I,
we will be talking.
00:20:22.95\00:20:25.55
Okay, I can feel
you better, you know,
00:20:25.59\00:20:29.19
than me going somewhere else.
00:20:29.22\00:20:32.46
I would be like,
"What's your gender?"
00:20:32.49\00:20:35.00
You know, it's
slight lately not really...
00:20:35.03\00:20:38.30
Or maybe what we can recommend
one-on-one with you and Arthur,
00:20:38.33\00:20:42.00
and then also, a
spiritual component
00:20:42.04\00:20:44.24
where I can help
you, like a Bible study.
00:20:44.27\00:20:46.68
Right.
00:20:46.71\00:20:48.04
You know, a
therapeutic Bible study,
00:20:48.08\00:20:49.41
to give you scriptures
00:20:49.44\00:20:50.78
that's gonna
empower you, Christopher.
00:20:50.81\00:20:52.25
That gonna enhance your life
and what God has called you.
00:20:52.28\00:20:55.32
We've been put
here for a purpose.
00:20:55.35\00:20:57.52
And you all have a
purpose in this life,
00:20:57.55\00:20:59.59
a great purpose.
00:20:59.62\00:21:01.06
And God wants to extend
00:21:01.09\00:21:02.56
that purpose throughout mankind.
00:21:02.59\00:21:04.99
But we can pick
our own worst enemies.
00:21:05.03\00:21:07.20
But we're not
going to look at that,
00:21:07.23\00:21:08.56
we're gonna look at
00:21:08.60\00:21:09.93
how we are
measuring our self right now.
00:21:09.96\00:21:12.07
So on a scale,
wait a minute, 0 to 10,
00:21:12.10\00:21:14.64
where are we
therapeutically, right now?
00:21:14.67\00:21:16.17
Where are we?
00:21:16.20\00:21:17.54
So we all know
where we're starting,
00:21:17.57\00:21:18.91
where we have a
minute left, where are we?
00:21:18.94\00:21:21.58
For you and I,
00:21:21.61\00:21:22.94
I feel on our
one-on-one sessions,
00:21:22.98\00:21:25.08
we are on at an eight.
00:21:25.11\00:21:26.98
And as far as our group therapy,
00:21:27.02\00:21:28.78
or marital status
therapy, we are ground zero.
00:21:28.82\00:21:32.02
All right.
00:21:32.05\00:21:33.39
And we need to move forward.
00:21:33.42\00:21:34.76
I just think it's really
important from what you said,
00:21:34.79\00:21:37.76
you know, and connecting
with the spirituality,
00:21:37.79\00:21:40.13
it's really
important that they work.
00:21:40.16\00:21:42.60
Remember, this is
that the true emphasis
00:21:42.63\00:21:45.50
of you changing the behavior
is going to take a lot of work.
00:21:45.53\00:21:50.31
And you have to
make your mind up
00:21:50.34\00:21:53.34
that in spite of
what you may face,
00:21:53.38\00:21:55.81
I'm not going to revert
back to the old behavior
00:21:55.84\00:21:59.45
and that's calling,
constant checking in,
00:21:59.48\00:22:02.45
and doing what's
required to save your lives.
00:22:02.48\00:22:05.05
That's what it boils down
to and your family's life.
00:22:05.09\00:22:07.82
Right.
00:22:07.86\00:22:09.19
Well, listen, we
want to thank you both
00:22:09.22\00:22:10.93
for being with
us on making it work
00:22:10.96\00:22:12.66
and we're going
to be here for you,
00:22:12.69\00:22:14.46
we will see you this week
for your counseling session.
00:22:14.50\00:22:17.60
God bless you both.
00:22:17.63\00:22:18.97
Thank you. Thank you.
00:22:19.00\00:22:20.87
Thank you. Definitely.
00:22:20.90\00:22:22.27
Thank you, Dr.
Kim. You're welcome.
00:22:22.30\00:22:26.47
Arthur Christopher and
Cassandra really shared
00:22:26.51\00:22:30.11
a lot of information with
us, and with the audience.
00:22:30.15\00:22:31.48
Yes. Solutions.
00:22:31.51\00:22:33.75
What do we need to
look at to try to help
00:22:33.78\00:22:36.79
our families and couples
dealing with substance abuse?
00:22:36.82\00:22:40.06
Well, we have to understand
the origin of the problem.
00:22:40.09\00:22:45.16
You know, when we think about
this substance abuse issue,
00:22:45.19\00:22:50.80
what's causing
them, and what's going on
00:22:50.83\00:22:54.10
to really make
them focus on that?
00:22:54.14\00:22:58.71
The only way that
they can find and relieve
00:22:58.74\00:23:01.11
is to do a certain things.
00:23:01.14\00:23:03.41
To smoke cigarettes, to
drink alcohol, to use drugs,
00:23:03.45\00:23:09.28
then we need to
really understand,
00:23:09.32\00:23:11.12
what's the motivation for them
00:23:11.15\00:23:12.99
to change to do that behavior,
00:23:13.02\00:23:15.49
instead of dealing with issues
from a different perspective.
00:23:15.52\00:23:18.66
What are the gateway
drugs? What are gateway drugs?
00:23:18.69\00:23:20.90
Well, gateway drugs is
drugs that would lead you
00:23:20.93\00:23:23.97
into doing harder drugs,
such as heroin and cocaine.
00:23:24.00\00:23:30.81
But, you know, right
now there's a dispute about
00:23:30.84\00:23:35.31
cigarettes being a gateway drug
00:23:35.34\00:23:37.35
or marijuana
being a gateway drug.
00:23:37.38\00:23:39.65
Right.
00:23:39.68\00:23:41.02
Because there's some concerns
right now with the way that
00:23:41.05\00:23:45.52
the popularity
of using marijuana
00:23:45.55\00:23:48.09
has continued to grow.
00:23:48.12\00:23:50.73
We're talking about
some people saying that,
00:23:50.76\00:23:52.99
it's used from a
disable purposes.
00:23:53.03\00:23:55.96
And so, that it's not
really a gateway drug.
00:23:56.00\00:23:58.43
When you say disabled purposes,
00:23:58.47\00:23:59.80
you're talking
about medical use.
00:23:59.83\00:24:01.17
Medical use,
that's really a big thing,
00:24:01.20\00:24:02.74
medical marijuana is
really, really something bad.
00:24:02.77\00:24:07.81
It's caused a lot of concern,
00:24:07.84\00:24:10.48
but it's also been
accepted by a lot of states that
00:24:10.51\00:24:17.42
who have moved towards
accepting medical marijuana.
00:24:17.45\00:24:21.99
Legalizing it. Yes.
00:24:22.02\00:24:23.36
Accepting it as something
00:24:23.39\00:24:25.23
that's viable for
their communities.
00:24:25.26\00:24:27.53
So how do we get
around this, you know,
00:24:27.56\00:24:29.60
when we have our families
00:24:29.63\00:24:31.23
who are truly
seeking God's will,
00:24:31.27\00:24:33.37
but yet at the same time,
they have these urges to drink?
00:24:33.40\00:24:36.64
They have the desire to drink
or use different aspects that
00:24:36.67\00:24:41.04
will lead to the
destruction of their family.
00:24:41.08\00:24:43.21
As we saw, what's going on
with Christopher and Cassandra.
00:24:43.24\00:24:45.95
Well, once again,
00:24:45.98\00:24:47.45
we have to understand
the origin of the problem.
00:24:47.48\00:24:49.98
In a lot of cases, we're
talking about peer pressure,
00:24:50.02\00:24:53.56
you know, I mean,
we're talking about people
00:24:53.59\00:24:56.06
that maybe in middle
school that start drinking
00:24:56.09\00:24:59.39
because they are surrounded
00:24:59.43\00:25:02.03
by people that
drink, go in their household
00:25:02.06\00:25:05.33
or their
relationships with their peers.
00:25:05.37\00:25:10.57
They could be
challenged, you know,
00:25:10.61\00:25:12.67
you haven't done this, you know.
00:25:12.71\00:25:14.94
Have you ever participated
in drinking beer or wine,
00:25:14.98\00:25:19.61
you know, you can
go from one aspect
00:25:19.65\00:25:21.45
to up to another level
00:25:21.48\00:25:23.95
where, you know,
before you know it,
00:25:23.99\00:25:25.85
that person may be
drinking on a consistent basis.
00:25:25.89\00:25:28.99
I thank the Lord that my...
00:25:29.02\00:25:30.69
the Lord delivered my father,
00:25:30.73\00:25:32.69
you know, before he
passed away of alcoholism.
00:25:32.73\00:25:36.06
But I saw how it
impacted his life.
00:25:36.10\00:25:39.00
The damage.
00:25:39.03\00:25:40.37
The damage it did to him
physically and emotionally.
00:25:40.40\00:25:42.64
That was done, you know,
poor decision making, you know,
00:25:42.67\00:25:47.51
we're talking about and
your particular family unit
00:25:47.54\00:25:51.91
that the alcohol had
been, was devastating
00:25:51.95\00:25:56.55
that it cost divorce.
00:25:56.58\00:25:57.95
It cost divorce.
00:25:57.99\00:25:59.32
It caused poor relationship
00:25:59.35\00:26:00.96
between your
mother and your father.
00:26:00.99\00:26:03.56
She just got to a point
00:26:03.59\00:26:04.93
where she couldn't
accept that behavior anymore
00:26:04.96\00:26:07.40
because your father
had made poor decisions.
00:26:07.43\00:26:10.20
So with
Cassandra, she's at a point,
00:26:10.23\00:26:12.13
you know, where, "I
want to stop," you know,
00:26:12.17\00:26:14.30
that's why she
sought our counseling.
00:26:14.34\00:26:16.14
And Christopher, he's trying
but he'll go two or three days,
00:26:16.17\00:26:20.04
and then you relapse.
00:26:20.08\00:26:21.41
What causes the relapse?
00:26:21.44\00:26:22.78
Well, let's look at Christopher
from a different perspective.
00:26:22.81\00:26:25.61
We're talking about Christopher
00:26:25.65\00:26:27.82
indicating on the show
that he was an alcoholic
00:26:27.85\00:26:32.92
because of his association
with his criminal background.
00:26:32.95\00:26:39.69
And not feeling that the support
00:26:39.73\00:26:42.73
that he was getting
00:26:42.76\00:26:44.20
was going to be
something that he can overcome.
00:26:44.23\00:26:47.00
So he continued to drink.
00:26:47.04\00:26:48.67
I see, so again
having the ability to trust
00:26:48.70\00:26:52.07
in a lot of
Proverbs 3:5, and six.
00:26:52.11\00:26:54.31
"Trust in the
Lord with all thy heart
00:26:54.34\00:26:55.84
and lean not to
thy own understanding.
00:26:55.88\00:26:58.01
And in all that
ways acknowledge Him,
00:26:58.05\00:27:00.02
He should direct that path."
00:27:00.05\00:27:01.58
What should Cassandra do
now? What is her role now?
00:27:01.62\00:27:06.25
Well, because
Cassandra is also drinking.
00:27:06.29\00:27:09.66
She needs to stop drinking.
00:27:09.69\00:27:11.83
She needs to make
a decision, you know.
00:27:11.86\00:27:13.90
And then and she needs to insist
00:27:13.93\00:27:16.43
that Christopher also make
a decision to stop drinking.
00:27:16.46\00:27:22.90
Well, it is our desire
for all of us to live holy
00:27:22.94\00:27:25.97
and good lives for Christ.
00:27:26.01\00:27:27.54
Work hard.
00:27:27.58\00:27:28.91
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:27:28.94\00:27:30.28
I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:27:30.31\00:27:31.65
God bless.
00:27:31.68\00:27:33.01