Participants: Arthur Nowlin & Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Donald
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000056A
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00:31 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:33 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 00:34 And welcome, to making it work. 00:37 Arthur, when you think about loss, I think about you. 00:42 You've been blessed to have a beautiful family. 00:46 But over the years, since we've been married, 00:48 you've lost your three brothers. 00:50 Why don't you tell us, you lost your entire family, 00:52 who did you loose? 00:54 I lost each one of my brothers 00:55 my two older brothers and my younger brother. 00:58 You know, my sister who had passed away some years 01:02 when I was in college. 01:03 But-- 01:05 And your mother and father also deceased. 01:06 Yes. 01:07 So when you think about loss, how do you feel 01:09 you know being the younger one still living 01:11 and when you reflect, when you have a brother 01:14 who has a birthday 01:16 and I see you at home sometimes, 01:17 it's where you're reflecting. 01:19 Well, you know, I would think that 01:21 I would always reflect on those dates. 01:24 You know, but I had to redirect the sadness. 01:30 Yes. 01:31 And, and get motivated 01:33 because, I wanted to most importantly 01:36 not linger just on grief alone, 01:39 what I wanted to also do is use it to empower me 01:43 to make me more conscious of doing something positive. 01:50 Now, I like that word empower, you know, that hits me, 01:52 we talk about being empowered, get up, get moving. 01:55 Not just allow yourself to just dive that person, 01:59 all of us have a difficult time when you lose a loved one. 02:02 Well, we were blessed to interview Donald. 02:05 And our topic is growing through the pain. 02:09 And it was hard because, he lost his mother 02:12 and he came to me 02:14 for one aspect of counseling his relationship. 02:17 But throughout the holiday months, 02:19 throughout that timeframe, his mother passed. 02:22 But was so interesting I lost my mom. 02:26 So, I had to counsel him 02:27 while I'm dealing with my own grief. 02:29 That was something. 02:31 Yes, it's difficult and how did you do it? 02:33 I did it by the grace of God, "The Lord is my shepherd, 02:36 I shall not want." 02:38 Psalms 23:1 it's not my will but God's will God's will. 02:41 You know, and I had to allow myself to be moved 02:44 and decrease so God could increase. 02:47 But another thing you had to do, 02:48 or that you felt that was probably mandatory for you 02:52 is that you had to separate yourself. 02:55 I did, I had to move myself out of the way. 02:57 Well, let's listen to Donald, growing through the pains. 03:02 You know, Donald, for the last six months, 03:04 we've been working really diligently 03:06 with your counseling and loss of your mom, 03:09 bereavement counseling. 03:11 Let's talk about that, you know. 03:14 Why did you decide to come to counseling? 03:17 When I started I was having issues with relationships 03:23 and what not and I finally got the courage to say, 03:30 I need help or somebody to talk to about my situation. 03:37 And I had to say you've been very open, very transparent. 03:41 Your mom passed recently, you know. 03:42 Let's talk about her relationship? 03:44 Yeah, my mom, three years ago was diagnosed 03:48 with stomach cancer 03:49 and they didn't give us too many options 03:52 where my mom being at the time she was diagnosed, 03:55 she was 80 years old. 03:57 But my mom was a fighter. 03:59 And that's what I guess, that's where I get my strength 04:05 from most of the time 04:06 and she fought a good fight for three years 04:09 and it was this past December at the Sunday, 04:16 she had two major, two major strokes 04:21 and a seizure and it got her real weak. 04:24 And she was in the hospital, she was fighting 04:27 and she was paralyzed on her right side, 04:31 and she couldn't talk. 04:34 And I would go see her every day, 04:37 and she will look at me, and she know I was there, 04:40 she squeezed my hand 04:41 but I could tell that she wasn't, 04:44 she didn't like me seeing her in that way and. 04:48 It's just-- 04:50 It was just difficult. It was difficult, yeah. 04:52 It's all right. Take your time, take your time. 04:54 When you got the call from your niece. 04:57 She called you. 04:59 And you were sitting in the parking lot. 05:00 You were there but and she had already passed. 05:04 What did that do to you 05:06 that you were not able to be there 05:08 at those last few moments. 05:10 It really hurt and once I finally got enough courage 05:17 to get out of the car and go into the rehab center 05:20 and I went, I stood at the door. 05:23 And I just looked at her and I said, 05:26 "Never in my life that I think that this will happen." 05:30 My mom was so strong, 05:32 and I thought my mom would bury me, 05:34 I thought my mom will be around forever. 05:37 And I just, I went over. 05:39 And I just looked at her and I started crying 05:42 and I was telling her, I need you, I need you. 05:46 Autumn needs you. 05:48 And Autumn is your little girl. 05:50 Autumn is my daughter. 05:51 She loved Autumn. She loved Autumn. 05:52 Okay. 05:54 And I kept saying mom, get up I need you and me, 05:59 I'm the baby. 06:00 I'm the youngest of eight, four boys and four girls. 06:03 And my sisters were there telling me, 06:06 we can't do no more and she's not hurting any more 06:10 and that's the part that I really didn't get 06:14 because I was selfish. 06:16 And I wanted my mom still here. 06:19 Even though it was for the better 06:22 that she is not hurting anymore. 06:25 You know in bereavement counseling 06:26 one of the important aspects of it. 06:28 And we've talked about it in your treatment plan 06:30 and setting goals to get through this 06:33 is not to be in denial. 06:36 And recognizing that she has passed 06:39 and you've been able to say that. 06:41 Can you say that my mom has passed? 06:45 I can say it, but I still don't believe it. 06:53 The other day I was going to sell my our cell phones 06:57 and I'm real upset with myself, I'm just trying to find 07:00 one of my old voice mails from her 07:02 just to hear a voice again because it's been so long. 07:06 And I just want to hear her. 07:08 She used to leave sending me mail, "Hey, it's your mom. 07:10 Give me a call." 07:12 And just, I just want to hear 07:14 one of those messages one more time. 07:17 It's like so much, that I wish I could say it 07:20 those two weeks, what I did say it 07:23 but she couldn't say it back to me 07:25 but she looked at me. 07:26 And I knew she knew how I felt. 07:29 And I know how she felt about me. 07:31 One aspect that coming into counseling. 07:34 You have been a great son. 07:36 You were, you would go buy and get her oatmeal 07:38 and take it to her. 07:39 Every day on your way and you are a police officer 07:44 and recognizing how busy you were, 07:46 but you always took time for your mother. 07:48 But part number, another aspect of the counseling 07:52 being able to get through the denial having no regrets. 07:55 Do you have any regrets with your mom? 07:59 I don't really have any regrets. 08:02 I was there like all my brothers and sisters said 08:05 you was the good son, you did all you could for her 08:08 and she's proud of you. 08:11 That is as to this day it's still hard 08:14 to come to grips with it. 08:16 I've drove in to our house several times. 08:20 And I maybe I parked in the driveway, 08:23 but I can't get out of the car and go in. 08:26 So my mom passed December 19th, 2014 08:30 and I still haven't been in her house. 08:34 And that may be one of our exercise, 08:38 a part of our treatment plan 08:39 that I may have to go with you, 08:41 you know, and help you to go through this process. 08:44 Because it's gonna be crucial that you're able to do this. 08:47 It's been three months, 08:48 and we have to start making certain steps 08:51 in order for you to see the measurement, 08:53 and we talk about zero to ten. 08:55 We talk about it often in our counseling session. 08:58 Where are you with this? 08:59 So, right now with your mom's passing, 09:02 where are you on a scale of zero to ten 09:04 in measurement with your counseling. 09:07 With my counseling I understand maybe a seven. 09:10 Okay, all right, so we're making some progress. 09:12 We're making progress. 09:13 And you're still coming, that's the key. 09:15 A lot of people give up, Donald. 09:17 A lot of people stop coming and you have not, 09:20 so you have to recognize that you are still in this. 09:23 And you're still grieving. 09:25 You just recently lost your mom, 09:26 it's not something that you can get over overnight 09:29 and I'm not trying for you to forget about mom. 09:33 But there are those who are here living with you 09:36 such as Stephanie and Autumn, 09:38 and we have to focus on the living. 09:41 You need to remember all this she gave you, 09:44 all that she put inside of you. 09:46 But at the same time now you must take that 09:49 and be a vessel to do like you do in your job. 09:53 Let's talk about that for a little bit? 09:55 You know, domestic violence, tell us what you do 09:57 for the department of, the police department? 10:00 I've been an investigator dealing with domestic violence 10:04 in the city of Detroit since 2001. 10:10 When citizens make 10:11 domestic violence reports at precincts 10:13 or when police come out. 10:16 They are forwarded to my office. 10:18 And once I receive a report, I contact victims 10:21 and see if they wish to pursuit charges. 10:24 And also give them other avenue such as counseling, 10:29 information on shelters and what not. 10:32 And that's, that's my job basically. 10:36 And you go to court also. 10:37 I'm in court quite a bit. 10:39 You find that women or men change their minds 10:42 and do not want to press charges? 10:45 All the time. 10:46 And you know, it sometimes, it takes me off my square, 10:51 when I really try to help somebody 10:53 and I said, "You reached out. 10:56 I'm here to help you." 10:58 And I get everything going, we show up for court, 11:01 and they have a change of heart. 11:03 Now, what's their reason, what's their answer? 11:06 They apologize, 11:07 they're not going to do it anymore. 11:11 It was a one thing, it was my fault. 11:13 I shouldn't have did this or I shouldn't have did that. 11:16 And then other than take is one incident 11:20 where someone is unfortunately killed 11:22 and we'll have a rush to people want to press charges again 11:26 for maybe a month or two, 11:28 and then it will die down and back to the same thing. 11:32 Okay. 11:33 You know in your counseling process 11:34 is really interesting 11:36 when you started, you came in to deal with relationship. 11:39 Then we had to make a transition 11:41 because mom had passed. 11:43 Dealing with the stress on your job. 11:45 You know, having a little baby, 11:47 how old is your daughter Autumn? 11:49 She is two. All right. 11:50 Let's talk about that, all right. 11:52 Your mom raised you in the church. 11:53 Raised in the church. 11:55 You get involved, you have a relationship, 11:56 you have a child out of marriage, all right. 11:59 You are now dating her mom, 12:02 and now decision has been made to marry. 12:05 All right, are you sure about this decision? 12:08 Yes. 12:09 Marriage is a big step, Donald. 12:11 And we've been talking many months about this. 12:14 And some days you are sure, and some days you're not sure. 12:18 And, you know, I always hold on with my ink pen 12:20 like I'm waiting for that answer. 12:22 Right. So now today, you are sure. 12:25 Tell me why you are sure 12:26 that you are ready to be married? 12:28 It basically goes back to how my mother raised me 12:33 and I know right from wrong 12:35 and I love the young lady that I'm with Stephanie, 12:40 and I also love my daughter. 12:43 And with me, I don't know, 12:46 being having a child later on in life 12:51 I have Autumn when I was 40. 12:54 So, it allowed me to see things, 12:56 I saw things in life. 12:59 And I've done things 13:00 and as well as me and Stephanie, 13:03 we've traveled together 13:04 and it's just got to me 13:10 brought her in my life for a reason, 13:14 especially during a time I lost my mom, 13:17 she was right there by my side. 13:18 She was very supportive. She was. 13:19 Very supportive you know. 13:21 So, let me ask you this in the commitment process. 13:25 What are you committed to, you know, 13:26 not just being a good husband, a good father, you know? 13:30 How does God play a role in your relationship? 13:33 Is it important for you? 13:35 It is important. 13:36 Okay. 13:37 Stephanie has instilled that in me 13:39 and sometimes I don't want to go. 13:44 I'm tired, I'm all day at work. 13:48 And she just will give me a look 13:52 and we don't have to say a word after that 13:54 I get dressed and we go to church. 13:56 So in your relationship recognizing the commitment 14:00 and divorce is not an option here. 14:02 No. 14:04 Divorce is not even going to be an option. 14:06 No, I don't, me personally, I don't believe in that 14:08 and that's why I've never been married 14:10 and I believe when you get married, 14:12 it's forever. 14:14 It's forever. 14:15 Now, seeing and working in domestic violence yourself, 14:18 how do you handle your temper, you know, you have a toddler, 14:22 you are engaged to be married? 14:25 How do you deal with your own communication 14:26 and your personality because you're different? 14:30 It's hard and I mean, dealing with work 14:35 and I'm constantly trying to help people. 14:38 And, you know, I come home and I say, 14:41 well, guess what happened to me today. 14:43 I guess what happen and you know I tried it. 14:46 That was one of my things, I never try to bring work home. 14:51 But sometimes it wears on you real hard 14:54 like the people I really want to help 14:57 and out of the people that I help 15:01 maybe out of ten, maybe two will go all the way. 15:06 We see this thing all the way through trial or circuit court 15:09 and certain scene and what not. 15:11 So, before I'll leave the department, 15:15 I really want to increase that number. 15:18 Yes. Yes. 15:20 How has counseling helped? 15:21 You know, it's not about me, it's God. 15:23 God sent you here to Kim Logan Communication. 15:26 How has counseling helped you? 15:28 Counseling has helped me. 15:30 It has mellowed me. 15:33 It kind of humbled me. 15:34 I mean, because for one, 15:37 I always thought I don't need this. 15:41 If someone goes to counseling, they have issues, 15:44 they've got problems, they're crazy, 15:46 all of the above. 15:48 And it got to a point in my relationship 15:51 where I needed this 15:54 and I don't have no regrets. 15:57 Well, I appreciate that and I know 15:59 that God has received all the glory. 16:02 Where do we go now? 16:03 You know, we've been dealing with mom, 16:05 we're still dealing with the bereavement process 16:09 and your relationship. 16:11 Are you going to receive premarital counseling? 16:13 I am. All right. 16:15 We are. Yes. 16:16 All right, I'm glad to hear that. 16:18 What is the most important aspect 16:22 for your daughter Autumn? 16:23 What are your concerns for her? 16:26 My concerns for her as she gets older 16:30 is to have a strong family around her 16:37 because we're not going to have anymore children, 16:41 and I just want her to see what a close knit family is 16:46 and to know that we're behind her 16:49 and, you know, just, just behind her 16:53 to do great things. 16:55 Tell our viewers what Autumn does at night. 16:58 You know, how she will go through the whole process 17:00 not to go to bed? 17:02 Autumn doesn't want to go to bed at a time, 17:04 so when it's time for bed, we brush her teeth, 17:08 we wash her face, read her a book, 17:12 sometimes two books, say our prayers. 17:15 And she gets in a bed and then she says, 17:18 "Daddy socks off." 17:21 I don't want socks on, so she takes her socks off. 17:24 We lay down, 17:26 "Daddy, nose, I have a nose running." 17:29 So I can never get out of her, I said, "Look Autumn, 17:34 Daddy don't want to sleep on the floor every night." 17:36 You sit right there by her crate, her bed. 17:38 She says, "Daddy down, Daddy, Daddy lay down. 17:41 Daddy lay down," for two years old. 17:43 "Daddy lay down." 17:45 And she'll stick her hand now and say, "Hold Autumn hand." 17:49 Oh, giving orders. Yes. 17:51 And so you find yourself, you know. 17:53 She puts me to sleep. 17:54 She puts you to sleep? 17:55 Yeah. 17:57 Stephanie watches on the monitor and say, 17:58 oh, she just watches you till you go to sleep. 18:01 She will patch her head and she will roll over 18:04 and then she will go sleep. 18:05 'Cause she knows, she knows. 18:06 I love the part when you say, "Going to get cover" 18:08 because she knows, you're not coming back. 18:10 She says, because I don't sleep. 18:13 I've no cover on the floor, she's under the cover, 18:15 that's okay, Autumn, goodnight. 18:16 She says, "Daddy go get cover." 18:19 I say, "Yeah." 18:21 She says, "Okay, Daddy, I love you." 18:22 Oh. 18:24 So, she doesn't know I'm not coming back. 18:25 I know you would be devastated 18:27 if a man put his hands on your daughter. 18:28 Yes. 18:30 And being a police officer and what you see every day 18:33 to the type of person you want her to become, 18:36 and the type of person 18:37 you would like for her to someday date, 18:39 who will honor her and cherish her. 18:41 And that will come from your example, all right. 18:44 When we talk about also your goals, 18:47 your vision for your life. 18:49 What's next for you your vision, you know, 18:52 for your career aspirations for Donald? 18:55 Donald, like to eventually one day get promoted 18:59 to the rank of detective 19:01 which basically what I'm doing now 19:04 but I have a title of police officer. 19:07 I do detective work. 19:09 And our new chief instituted a rank of detective. 19:12 So they're in a process of selecting 19:15 and appointing people for the rank of detective. 19:18 Yes, yes. That's exciting. Yes. 19:21 You know, I know when I first-- When you first came in, 19:23 I ask you do you carry a weapon? 19:24 You say, yes, you do 19:26 and I remember all of for like months I never saw it 19:28 and one day I saw it. 19:30 And you covered it up 19:31 and I was like I felt so safe you know. 19:34 But I know you put your weapon away 19:36 when you're not on duty. 19:38 Have you ever been in a situation 19:39 where you had to use your weapon off duty? 19:43 No, and I'm very thankful of that. 19:45 There has been a couple of occasions 19:50 where I thought something was about to happen, you know. 19:53 It's just your senses of a police officer, 19:55 you just, it's training that always sticks with you. 20:00 You just sense something about to happen 20:02 and luckily it was defused for not mistake him. 20:09 It just so happen to be a squad car in area. 20:11 That was a blessing. Yes. 20:13 Let me suggest why I see us going in counseling. 20:16 Recognizing that in our behavior change, 20:20 you've made certain decisions 20:21 to come to counseling to be able to recognize, 20:25 that your mother has left this earth. 20:29 And now, moving to the point 20:30 where we have to accept her passing. 20:32 We're going to have to maybe take an alley 20:34 to go to the house and be able to walk on that porch. 20:38 Take those steps, so that you can begin to recognize 20:41 and you're not a man who is not afraid to cry, 20:44 I've seen your tears. 20:45 And so, that's a part of your healing. 20:47 The other aspect is being able to work through 20:51 all the things you're doing for your future marriage, 20:55 so that we don't have any relapses. 20:57 And then we will close out. 21:00 I will always be here for you. 21:01 Yes, yeah, okay. 21:03 Yeah, okay, long as you say you will always be there. 21:05 I'll always be. 21:07 Feels so wonderful to have been drawn to you. 21:11 Oh, praise God, Donald. Thank you so much. 21:13 Well listen, our time is over but I just want to thank you, 21:16 I thank you for all your commitment, 21:19 your hard work. 21:20 And I see the measurement from zero to seven, 21:22 so let's keep going, all right. 21:24 Let's keep going. Thank you, Donald. 21:25 God bless you. Thank you. 21:31 And the Bible's says in 2 Chronicles 20:15. 21:36 "For the battle is not mine, it is the Lord." 21:39 Let me say that again, 2 Chronicles 20:15, 21:42 look that up, "For the battle is not mine, 21:45 it is the Lord." 21:47 And when we think about pain that we go through, 21:49 we have to recognize, 21:50 God will not put more on us than what we can bear. 21:53 Amen, Arthur? Amen. 21:55 And I think about Donald 21:57 and all that he has gone through 21:58 and what he went through, 21:59 and how he has to still survive. 22:01 You know, being a police officer, 22:03 every day he has to deal with some type of loss 22:06 and seeing it. 22:07 And I think there was one of the things 22:09 that was really bothering him. 22:12 He was having difficulty separating the two. 22:16 And sometimes when you're going through 22:18 a grieving processes and you're still in a job, 22:21 it could be a little bit taxing you know. 22:23 Most definitely. 22:25 In many cases, I really do believe 22:27 that you definitely need some time off of work, 22:31 especially losing someone 22:33 that's extremely close to you, you know. 22:35 Like losing his mother, you know. 22:37 And again like I said earlier, 22:38 Donald had recently lost his mother. 22:41 And then a few weeks later I lost my mother. 22:44 And it was very difficult coming back 22:46 because I really didn't want to start seeing patients 22:49 or clients again right away. 22:51 And but God said that the battle is not yours, 22:54 Kim, it is mine. 22:55 And so, I called Donald. 22:57 Well, Donald has been calling me. 22:58 I really need a therapy session, 23:00 I really need to see you. 23:01 And I had to really pray, I had to pray, Arthur, 23:04 and to go back into my office, and start seeing clients. 23:08 Then not only that, we see like two or three more people 23:11 who just lost their mother so it made me 23:14 really focus on God's ability to heal. 23:17 And not just wallowing in my own sadness. 23:19 Well, I think with Donald, it was basically, here he is, 23:23 he is in a very difficult position as a police officer, 23:28 and he see people that are going through tragedies 23:32 on a consistent basis. 23:34 And then to separate that, that's extremely difficult. 23:37 Even with you, I mean to the point 23:39 where you have people coming to you 23:41 that may be in grief state of being. 23:45 And yet, you had to acknowledge the fact that you lost someone, 23:51 but you have to move yourself out of the way. 23:53 Now, that's the key. 23:54 You know, are you able to do that and do it successfully. 23:57 All right. All right. 23:58 If you're not able to do it successfully, 24:00 then you're causing more stress, 24:02 then you can go into depression. 24:04 That can really affect your judgment. 24:06 That's a good... that's a very good point. 24:08 I remember one lady came in right after Donald, 24:10 and I was sitting in my office. 24:12 And she began to speak. 24:14 And as I was listening, 24:15 I was doing just like this listening to her. 24:17 She said, "But you don't understand. 24:19 You don't understand, everyone says they understand, 24:21 but you don't understand." 24:23 And I say, "What don't I understand?" 24:24 "You don't know what it feels like to lose your mother." 24:26 And I looked at her. 24:28 And I said, "My mom passed 12 days ago." 24:31 And she just, "Oh, I'm so sorry, Dr. Logan." 24:35 I said, "That's okay you didn't know." 24:36 But I do understand. 24:38 So, that was the tool I was able to use to help her 24:41 because going through it myself same thing with Donald 24:45 helping him not only recognize 24:47 but not to isolate himself is very important 24:50 is that this is a very important solution 24:54 that we have to look at. 24:55 Don't isolate yourself as you're going through 24:58 the grief process because it's easy to just cut everyone off. 25:01 Well, once again we're talking about isolation, 25:04 and we're also talking about being able to recognize, 25:08 it is not just that easy. 25:10 You may not be able to see what's going on in your life. 25:14 You know, you may be struggling 25:15 and think that you're still productive 25:17 and you're not really productive 25:19 but you have people around you, 25:20 they have noticed that there's a difference 25:23 in the things that you do. 25:25 So, I mean, it was really important 25:29 that Donald made the decision, 25:31 you know, to discuss the situation with you, 25:34 even though he originally came to you for another reason. 25:37 That's right. 25:39 And that the death of his mom occurred 25:41 while he was in therapy. 25:43 But yet, he allowed himself to release the information. 25:47 Yes, he was very transparent and wanted the help. 25:50 He cried many times. 25:52 You know, crying is healthy, it's good, it's healing. 25:55 God gave us tears to release our pain. 25:58 Another solution, Arthur, in dealing with grief. 26:00 Well, I think basically, it's to have a support system. 26:04 Excellent, excellent. 26:05 You know, and that's really important too, 26:07 whether it be the church or somebody that's really close to 26:11 that can offer you some legitimate support. 26:14 We're not talking about somebody that, 26:16 you know, that say they understand. 26:18 But really they're really tied up 26:21 with what's going on in their own life 26:22 and they really can't really listen to you. 26:26 Okay, I understand the grief that you may be experiencing. 26:29 So you have to be careful and pick 26:31 the right support system, 26:32 a support system that's going to allow you 26:35 to feel like somebody else is really caring 26:38 about what's going on in your life. 26:40 And there's no better support system than God. 26:43 Seeking the Holy Spirit, again seeking 26:45 first the kingdom of God in all His righteousness, 26:48 and all things shall be added. 26:49 I want to read this scripture to you. 26:51 You have your Bibles with you right now. 26:54 Jeremiah 29:11, "For I know the thoughts 26:58 that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, 27:02 thoughts of peace, and not evil, 27:04 to give you hope in the latter end." 27:06 God wants nothing but the best. 27:08 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. 27:10 I'm Arthur Nowlin. 27:11 God bless. |
Revised 2016-04-21