Participants: Arthur Nowlin & Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Pat
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000054A
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00:30 Hi, I am Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. And I am Arthur Nowlin.
00:34 And welcome to Making It Work. 00:37 Arthur, I have something to tell you. 00:39 Okay. The word is lying. 00:43 And. 00:44 Did you do something that I'm not aware of? 00:48 Well, long time ago, remember? I don't think you remember. 00:50 I told you that I pay the mortgage and I didn't 00:55 and I took the mortgage payment and I bought something 00:58 and you were so nice and calm, but that-- 01:02 I was devastated. Yes. You were devastated. 01:04 But you did in a calm manner. 01:06 Absolutely, 01:07 it's only because of my relationship with the Lord. 01:10 And I praise God for that, 01:11 but that lie could have destroyed our household. 01:13 It was on the verge. 01:15 It was on the verge, really, that one little lie. 01:17 Absolutely. 01:18 Okay, because-- 01:20 And, you know, to be honest with you, 01:21 you are still making it up. I'm still making it up for you. 01:26 I'm trying to make it work. Yeah. 01:27 Well, when you think about lying though, 01:30 it can destroy a relationship. 01:33 It can destroy families, it can destroy a lifetime of work, 01:37 I remember in high school, 01:39 I attended Adelphian Academy in Holly, Michigan, 01:41 a Seventh-day Adventist boarding school 01:44 and under our word seniors, S-E-N-I-O-R, 01:49 we had to list different sentences, 01:52 and under I, I wrote down my irritation 01:56 and it stated that building relationships 01:59 over a two, three, four year period 02:02 or lifetime and how one lie destroys it. 02:07 Well, we want you to visualize 02:09 or go with this as we talk to Pat. 02:12 You know, Arthur, Satan is the author of deception. 02:17 Absolutely. 02:18 He is the father of lies, 02:19 but God is the author and finisher of our faith. 02:21 Yes. 02:23 And in this interview, we want you to go with us 02:26 as Pat talks about her relationship 02:28 with her husband and how lies and desertion 02:32 and all these things took place in her marriage. 02:34 But also, we want to talk about her victory. 02:37 Her victory, we do. 02:38 You know, and that's really important, 02:40 even in the midst of what Satan may try to do. 02:42 Yes. 02:44 God will help us to find a resolution 02:46 and be victorious. 02:48 Well, let's join Pat being a victim of lies. 02:54 Pat, I have been really very proud of you, 02:57 how you had been moving forward in your therapy process. 03:01 Let's talk about some of the changes you have made. 03:04 We talk about behavior, cognitive behavior, 03:07 changing the way we think and view our behavior. 03:10 And so, I want us to review. 03:12 What brought you 03:14 to Kim Logan Communications Counseling 03:16 and can you talk a little bit about that? 03:18 Yes, Dr. Kim, I started to process 03:21 'cause I realized I really need a help. 03:24 I was very strained in my marriage 03:26 and I was seeking avenues to find some relief 03:29 and some processes where we could move forward, 03:33 so I looked in the regular internet 03:36 and found a counseling session near my house 03:40 and I went and I-- 03:42 I went before and I request a mail, 03:47 maybe to give me a different perspective 03:49 'cause I have had previous counseling before 03:52 regarding the same issues in the marriage. 03:54 So I said, well, I'm gonna try it again, 03:56 and I may flip it in try a mail. 03:58 So I went and I started counseling sessions 04:03 with this particular individual 04:05 and things seems to be starting really good. 04:08 He was like, I'm doing assessment, we're gonna, 04:11 you know, workout some things and I was feeling like really, 04:13 you know, happy like, promising like, 04:15 thank God, help is coming, you know. 04:17 Yes, yes, yes. 04:19 And month after month, you know, I was hopeful, 04:22 just being hopeful every month and one particular session 04:27 that stood out with me was when he said okay. 04:32 Okay, hold on, wait a minute, you know, we have been, 04:34 you know, going through this for nine months 04:35 and when he said nine months, 04:39 I could have like fell to the floor, like really, 04:42 like nine months of my life I have been here 04:44 and you haven't given me any tool 04:47 to overcome the situation. 04:48 I know it. 04:50 And I was very quite and I was like, 04:51 well, thank you very much, and when I left his office, 04:56 I went to my car and I began to cry. 04:59 I began to cry and I began to cry, oh, God, 05:02 I said God, I need help, I can't do this, 05:04 this is, I can't move any further, I need help. 05:08 I need some tools to get to my next level of my life 05:12 and I clearly heard the Lord, clearly said call-- 05:19 You had been referred to me 05:22 and I remember someone talking about you sometime ago. 05:27 And it came back to my remembrance 05:29 at in the car when I was crying. 05:30 At that moment. At that moment. 05:33 So I scrambled through my phone, 05:35 I was crying looking through the phone, 05:37 I heard God, I knew it was God, so I took my phone 05:39 and I'm like, they say something weird, 05:41 I don't know her name, but I remember the text, so I-- 05:44 It took me like 30 minutes 05:45 to go through the text to find it. 05:46 Finally found your number and I say, 05:48 I'm just gonna call now, 05:50 and I called and you answered the phone. 05:52 My Lord. 05:53 And I was very surprised, I was like, oh. 05:56 And I said, well, I was just calling, 05:58 I was trying to sound together 06:01 and I was crying to have an effect 06:02 and I was like, I just want to know, 06:04 you know, I need to see you 06:07 and to see if you have any relevancies, 06:09 you know, you said, as a matter of fact, I do. 06:11 I said, I was just wondering if you know, 06:13 you had any time today? 06:15 And I felt glad that may be you heard something beyond that. 06:18 Oh, yes. 06:19 And you said, as a matter of fact, I do, 06:22 and I left one counseling session 06:25 to another the very same day. 06:26 My Lord. Yes. 06:28 And it was one of the best things 06:29 that you ever did, I know that and because not about me, 06:34 but it was about you. 06:35 Let's talk about you, 06:37 when you had this situation with your husband 06:39 when you were arrested. 06:41 Yes, so one of the series of things 06:46 that was unraveling in my marriage 06:49 and I just kept having this hope, 06:53 hope that things were gonna change and I never forget, 06:57 I came home one day 06:59 and I felt the spirit of darkness, 07:01 I just felt that when I came to the house, 07:03 it was like something feels different here, 07:05 and it just turned bad all of a sudden. 07:08 It was like, he was in a different place 07:10 and it was like he just blinked. 07:12 There was so much anger and frustration in him 07:15 and he turned around and he just 07:17 kind of like grab me and to start to push me, 07:21 bang me on refrigerator and I felt threatened 07:24 like, okay, it's something serious here 07:26 and if I don't do something, something is not, 07:28 then something is gonna turn bad 07:31 and the end result to make the long story short, 07:34 I called the police and when they came, 07:39 they looked at him and they looked at me 07:41 and in my struggle protecting myself, yeah, 07:44 there was scratch or something on his face 07:46 and I didn't have anything. 07:47 So they said, well, ma'am I'm sorry, 07:48 you know, he has a scratch and you don't, 07:51 so we are taking you 07:53 and it was like I couldn't believe it, 07:57 like, are you serious? 07:59 This 300 pound man and look at the scenario, 08:03 we're sorry, and I went to jail 08:05 and it was life changing situation. 08:07 How many days you were in jail? A day. 08:10 You were there a day, and after you got out of jail, 08:12 what did you do? 08:14 I directly went, I wasn't going back 08:19 and I went to a family's home 08:25 that was vacant, that, I guess prepared for me, 08:29 for me to, you know, get myself together, 08:32 so I went straight there 08:33 and started the process of healing, 08:36 you know, in that situation, it was very traumatic. 08:38 But in the turn of events, you know, 08:41 your husband started to contact you 08:44 after a period of time, 08:45 and he started courting you and in that, you went back. 08:51 Now, you talk about abuse 08:52 and you hear women all the time, 08:54 being abused but yet don't go back into it. 08:57 Why did you go back, Pat? 09:00 I went back because he was convincing 09:05 and I said to myself, 09:08 does he deserve a second chance. 09:11 What happened? 09:12 Did something happen that he came to the realization 09:16 of what the event was and he clearly, 09:20 emphatically try to portray that to me 09:22 that I'm a changed man and things are gonna be better 09:26 and I mean, all-out pursuit, like all-out pursuit 09:31 that I have never seen him in the whole time 09:34 since we're married, so I was like okay, he is different-- 09:37 So you saw a new man. 09:38 Yeah, he was like a new man, yeah. 09:40 Okay, but at the same time just lies, deceit, deception. 09:44 It was, it was a strategic, 09:47 I guess plot to draw me back in to that psycho. 09:51 Why do you think he was trying to draw you back in? 09:55 Control, I feel it was a control factor. 09:59 It wasn't genuine, 10:01 the fact that I can control this situation. 10:04 Yes. 10:05 You know, so looking in hindsight. 10:07 Oh, yes. 10:08 You know how many times that we listen 10:09 to different tapes of your recordings 10:12 you would have with your husband 10:14 and you would bring them to the therapeutic setting. 10:17 Then one thing that I am so proud of you 10:20 that changed was the way you communicated. 10:22 If you were over arguing, he would argue, 10:24 he would constantly keep the conversation going 10:27 and he will say, stop, stop, Pat, 10:29 and 'cause you were looking for something from him. 10:32 What were you looking for 10:34 before you learned through this counseling process 10:37 how to change the way you communicated? 10:39 Because now, you became to, you got to a point, 10:42 I don't want to do this anymore, 10:44 I don't have to do this anymore, 10:46 but what were you looking for? 10:47 What were you hoping for 10:48 when you kept going back and forth with him? 10:52 I was looking for acceptance. 10:54 I was looking for him to genuinely love and accept me 10:59 and I didn't get it 11:01 and I started learning different tools 11:04 when I started coming to sessions with you 11:07 and I started view things in a different prospective 11:09 that I've never had before. 11:11 I mean the homework assignments you would give, 11:14 the transparency that we shared 11:16 and just the things I was learning in the sessions 11:20 was life changing. 11:22 And I started to see the change in me 11:25 and I was like, what, I just did that for real. 11:28 I learned that in the book. 11:29 I learned that in the book that they had 11:31 and it was just so exciting, like, oh, wow, 11:34 finally I can break this cycle and I can have control 11:38 and I don't have to be drawn in to that toxic situation. 11:41 Because it was toxic for you, 11:42 because I saw depression, I saw anxiety, I saw stress, 11:46 I saw many, many sessions with the tears 11:49 and you are still searching for that acceptance 11:51 and that approval from him. 11:53 You moved out of the bedroom, tell us about that? 11:56 Yes, so he was getting really, getting really heavy 12:02 and I was like, what, I just, I got to get some reprieve, 12:04 let me just kind of reevaluate the situation, 12:07 so I moved out to try to figure out, 12:09 what next move I'm going to make 12:12 and let me see how he handles this move, 12:16 because he is not seeing my heart, 12:17 he is not feeling what I'm trying to say. 12:20 So I moved out of the bedroom 12:22 and you know, I don't know why I was surprised, 12:26 to my surprise there were no words exchanged. 12:28 Nothing. 12:30 He got up the next morning like, 12:31 it was just a nice sunny day, 12:33 like, it doesn't mean nothing, you mean nothing. 12:35 And how did you feel about that? 12:37 How did that make you feel? 12:40 It cut me, it really cut me, like, you have no value to me, 12:44 not even a question of, are you okay? 12:46 Why did you move out? Wait, what's happening? 12:49 You know, he want always the status quo, 12:51 everything is good. 12:53 And then even after moving out, you move back in 12:57 and you move back in to the master bedroom, 13:01 he moved out. 13:02 Yes, he didn't skip a beat, so I came, he was like, 13:08 you know let's not be like this, 13:09 then come on let's work it out, let's pray, 13:12 let's get some kind of tool, let's get counseling together, 13:15 I'm going by myself, let's just do something, 13:17 nope it's you, and I'm like wow. 13:20 So, I have thought maybe, okay, well, maybe if I just show him, 13:23 you know, when he comes back from work, 13:24 I'll be just be back in the room 13:26 like, let's just talk it out or let's come together 13:30 and I never forget that day, like another cut he came in 13:34 and he felt that I was in a room, 13:35 he cut on the light to double check 13:37 and he see me, he look and he cut off the light 13:40 and slammed the door and he never came back, 13:44 so I was like wow, okay, this is a new thing, 13:49 so I will come to counseling sessions 13:50 and get more information. 13:52 How to deal with another disappointment, 13:55 another situational rejection. 13:58 'Cause I didn't want you to have a setback 13:59 because again, it was so easy 14:01 to just go back into that level of depression, 14:04 that we have been pulling so hard to get you out off. 14:07 I even bought my husband into as part of one of the tools 14:11 to help you to be able talk about from a male perspective. 14:14 How did that help you? 14:15 That was pivotal for me 14:18 to not only get a perspective from a woman, 14:22 but yet that male perspective that I was looking for 14:25 when I initially went 14:26 to the other counseling session, it worked. 14:29 It's like he heard my heart, 14:33 it's like he felt what my husband was going through, 14:36 but yet he allowed me 14:39 to kind of process my thoughts to say, 14:41 well listen, you know, there comes the time 14:44 that you have to make a decision 14:47 and if that was real and it was very really well 14:49 like, you know, 14:50 he doesn't wanted to as you can't make anybody. 14:52 No, you can't. 14:54 You know, you can't make anyone love you, 14:56 you can't make anyone, you know, get the tools 14:59 and anything in life to be successful, 15:01 too much is given much is required. 15:03 That's it. Let's assess some of your tools, okay? 15:06 Your tools are how you communicate 15:08 with yourself now? 15:10 How you listen to yourself now? 15:12 How important does that play a role in your life now 15:14 in your healing? 15:16 It's absolutely essential, like I'm not scared of-- 15:20 Sometimes I'll be scared 15:21 to listen to the voice inside of me 15:24 'cause I was such in a bad place, 15:26 I was hurting so much like, how do I get out of this? 15:32 And now I can sit in a room with total silence 15:37 and have such joy and peace and I was like, 15:41 I was telling you one session before I said, 15:43 Dr. Kim, I sat in the room 15:45 with tears coming down my face of joy. 15:49 I hadn't felt that in such a long time. 15:52 Years of hoping, years of rejection, 15:54 years of, you know, condense any words in, 15:58 you know, just so many years of that 16:01 and to just be able to have the strength to come out, 16:04 you know, this is exciting. 16:07 I know you had to-- 16:09 you made a decision to move out of your home 16:12 and he even helped pack your things up. 16:15 Let's talk about that? 16:16 Yes, so I made a clear decision to move out. 16:19 The Lord spokes to me clearly and I caught him 16:24 and I told him, you know what my decision was. 16:26 I said, you know, I understand that you are doing some things 16:29 that you feel that you need to do with your life 16:32 and I just want to let you know I'm doing the same, 16:34 so when you get back, I won't be here. 16:36 And his response was, okay girl! 16:39 Okay girl. Okay girl! 16:41 Like... 16:42 Like you're just pals. Yeah, pals co-worker. 16:45 And I was like, okay. 16:47 And when I came to get the remainder of my things, 16:51 he had already had it all packed and ready for me 16:55 and I was like, wow, thank you. 16:57 And I took my things 16:59 and I knew that there was turning of events, 17:01 there was the end. 17:03 Have you seen him since? No. 17:05 Okay. No communication? Not a call, not anything. 17:09 Not anything. 17:10 When you look at your communication process 17:12 or your counseling process and you look at him today, 17:16 what do you see in his behavior! 17:19 You know, avoidance, denial-- 17:22 Yes, absolutely. 17:23 Do you see those type of characteristics 17:25 and the behavior itself, 17:27 when we talk about cognitive behavioral therapy? 17:30 Would you recommend therapy for your own husband 17:33 to say you need some help? 17:34 Absolutely. Why? 17:37 Because that behavior will have an end result, 17:42 a repetition of the things that may be his core fear 17:48 of being abandoned 17:50 and you are actually making that repetition 17:53 by your behavior and not seeing the end result of your behavior 17:57 is causing these things to happen, 17:58 it's not just happening and you have to, 18:01 you know, have accountability for your actions. 18:03 Yes, accountability. 18:04 Yes, and unfortunately that was a challenge for him. 18:07 Okay. Are you depressed now? 18:11 Absolutely not. I have joy unspeakable. 18:14 Are you angry? Not at all. 18:17 Are you disappointed in the way your life has turned 18:20 and the direction it's going in now? 18:24 I'm actually humbled by it. 18:26 You know, just, when I actually just stepped out on God 18:30 and knowing that He was speaking to me, 18:33 it was like a new door, it's like, 18:35 I just had a visual of like doors flying open, 18:39 you know, it's just, 18:40 you know, it just started to change immediately 18:45 when I just stepped out. 18:46 Yes. 18:48 And I just really believe that, 18:49 that's what God was waiting for. 18:51 Where do we go now in your opinion 18:53 'cause this is about you in your counseling process? 18:56 Where would you like to go next, 18:58 because we had a long journey 19:00 getting you from that first day to today? 19:03 What's next for Pat? A continuation. 19:06 I mean, you still need the counsel 19:10 'cause it's still a process 19:12 and you have to walk out the process. 19:15 And, you know, you can't get too zealous, 19:17 you have to continue to see God, 19:19 seek the counsel of the God puts before you, 19:21 so that you can continue in the things that God wants. 19:24 And I am there like, it's not into him, 19:26 like, Dr. Kim, I am calling you like, when is my next session, 19:30 it does not end here, like, you know, it's been such a-- 19:33 You would go but we are connected. 19:34 Yes. We are connected. 19:36 Well, I have to say that, do the process, 19:38 both my husband and I know, we are so proud of you, we, 19:41 you know, the light is in your eyes, 19:42 the glow is in your voice. 19:45 The way you speak about your relationship 19:46 with Jesus Christ, being your all in all. 19:49 What would you say to someone going through 19:52 what you have come out of? 19:53 What would you say? 19:55 I would say to anyone that's going through a situation 19:59 that's dark, that you cannot see your way. 20:02 I will say to you, if you can just turn your face, 20:06 if you can just your face to the one 20:09 that can give you that path, the path of righteous, 20:12 that path that you can see a brighter day. 20:15 And lot of people are scared because they don't know 20:18 what that unknown is and it's very, it's real. 20:21 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's real. 20:22 But when you can just turn your face 20:24 and believe that things are gonna get better, 20:28 that's what I will say. 20:29 It will. It will, it will. 20:30 Well, Pat, as we continue the journey 20:33 and in counseling is, events will happen, 20:36 things will come up and you have my commitment, 20:39 you have our commitment here, that we will be there for you 20:43 and now as we close out this process 20:45 of going into the divorce, 20:47 we will go to divorce care counseling 20:49 and I will be here for you. 20:51 I wan to thank you for sharing your testimony, 20:53 your story and letting people know, 20:56 that God will see you through. 20:57 Thank you sweetheart. 20:59 God bless you. Thank you. 21:00 Thank you. 21:02 Arthur, all the things that Pat has gone through. 21:06 Wow. 21:07 But God is bringing her through. 21:08 God is a good God. 21:10 Her relation, you know, Pat continued to demonstrate 21:14 a sense of commitment to save her marriage 21:18 more than anything else. 21:19 She found us and she wanted to make sure 21:24 she was doing everything that she could possibly do 21:26 to assist in trying to resolve the differences. 21:30 She was committed. 21:31 Oh, she was more than committed. 21:33 She loved her husband, but he didn't love her. 21:36 He became confused about something and you know, 21:39 we are talking about a man that showed commitment 21:43 towards the people that he work with 21:46 and sensitivity towards the people that he work with, 21:50 but when he came home, he became ice cold. 21:53 He disconnected totally from Pat. 21:54 Yes. 21:56 And then, she didn't even see it coming. 21:57 No. 21:58 You know, how does that happen, you live with someone 22:01 and you don't even recognize the signs 22:04 that they are about to move out of the home 22:07 or divorce you? 22:08 Well, you know, it, it can happen that way 22:11 because you feel comfortable with who you are. 22:16 You know that you are doing the right things, 22:18 so you may not see it coming. 22:21 But what really stands out is the fact that this man 22:25 made a decision that he want to leave the bedroom. 22:29 He didn't want to be involved with her in anyway whatsoever. 22:32 He wanted to cut her off as far as financially. 22:36 You know, so it was really something 22:38 that caused a lot of tension and frustration and mostly-- 22:44 well, we have to look at the fact 22:45 that she didn't know how to handle it. 22:47 She didn't. 22:49 You know, I remember when I got a call, 22:50 I got a call from her 22:52 and I was in the office by myself that day 22:55 and Pat was crying and she said, 22:58 "She was sitting in her therapist's parking lot." 23:01 And she says, "I need help." 23:04 She said, "I need Jesus Christ." 23:06 She says, "I have a therapist who does not pray with me 23:09 and I was referred to you, Dr. Kim, 23:12 I was referred to you and your husband." 23:14 That day, I had an opening, 23:17 normally I don't have an opening in my schedule 23:19 and the Lord interceded on her behalf 23:22 and the Lord allowed her to come. 23:24 The Bible says in, John 14:1, 23:27 "Let not your heart beat troubled, 23:29 if you believe in God, believe also in me, 23:32 for in my Father's house there are many mansions." 23:35 So, she trusted God 23:37 and, Arthur, your favorite scripture. 23:38 Proverbs 3:5. Yes. 23:42 And we are talking about trusting in the Lord 23:44 with all thy heart 23:46 and most importantly acknowledge him. 23:48 That's right. And he would direct your path. 23:50 And so the key is, Pat did not lean on herself, 23:53 she leaned on God. 23:54 Let's talk about the solutions. What did we advise Pat to do? 23:57 What can we do to help our couples? 23:58 We told Pat that we wanted her 24:00 to look at how to get with herself and most-- 24:06 and recognize that she can only do 24:08 what she can do to improve the relationship, 24:11 but don't lose who she is as an individual. 24:14 That's excellent. 24:15 Also holding herself accountable 24:17 to get busy in her own life. 24:18 She had a beauty salon, 24:20 been able to motivate herself to become more creative. 24:23 And most of all 24:24 she never stopped worshiping God. 24:26 She didn't stop worshiping God, but she also continued 24:30 to reach out to her husband and she kept getting rejected. 24:33 Right. 24:35 And therefore she had to move forward. 24:36 Do you know they attend the same church? 24:38 They attend the same church. 24:39 They still attend the same church. 24:40 Yes, they do. You know. 24:42 And so I-- 24:43 and helping her not to hate and be angry. 24:44 You cannot hate anyone. 24:47 You must forgive, because in order for God 24:49 to forgive you, we must forgive others. 24:51 You know, what was another ironic thing 24:53 that had occurred with that relationship, 24:56 was in fact that, when he made a decision 24:58 or when Pat made a decision to move out of the house, 25:01 he assisted her. 25:02 Yes, he did. 25:04 He helped her pack, 25:05 he helped her get everything out, 25:06 he was nice, he was kind and she said thank you. 25:10 Now, she has moved into her own new place 25:13 and she has no regrets because she knows she did everything 25:16 that she could do. 25:17 And her business is thriving. It is thriving. 25:20 Again, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, 25:22 and lean not unto thine own understanding. 25:24 In all thy ways acknowledge Him, 25:27 and He shall direct your path. 25:29 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin. 25:31 God bless. |
Revised 2016-04-11