Participants: Arthur Nowlin & Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Jeff & Pam Logan
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000052A
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00:30 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:33 And welcome to Making it Work. 00:36 Arthur, I'm so excited, we get to talk about marriage. 00:39 You know, when you think about marriage what comes to mind? 00:42 Work, Kim. A lot of work. 00:43 A lot of work. 00:45 I've heard you say before that divorce is easy 00:47 but marriage takes work. 00:49 What are some things that has to be done to make it work? 00:52 Developing a method of communication 00:54 is important to me. 00:56 Always. Always. Yes. 00:57 And also we are dealing 00:58 with different types of personalities. 01:00 Absolutely. 01:01 And do you think that family origin plays into that? 01:04 It's definitely issue. Okay. 01:08 So today we want to welcome Jeff and Pam 01:11 and we want to look at marriage, 01:14 even on stresses, even in a loving marriage 01:18 because it takes love to make it work. 01:22 Jeff and Pam Logan, 01:24 it's so great to have you on our show. 01:26 You know, actually we've been really, really anticipating 01:30 that you have some wonderful things 01:31 to enlighten us because you left Detroit for a while 01:35 and went to Chicago and, you know, 01:38 I don't know of any other places 01:39 that you may have ventured off to 01:41 but we missed you and now you're back. 01:43 You know, so give us some insight 01:45 on what really brought you back to this area? 01:48 Well, the automotive industry of which, 01:53 you know, I'm a part is a kind of cyclical business 01:57 and from time to time 02:02 in automotive there be a downturn 02:06 and a manufacture will layoff, publications type. 02:10 And publications people can be out of work, 02:14 you know, from time to time. 02:17 You don't do Chicago without a job. 02:21 You come back home. Yes, you do. 02:23 So it was kind of difficult 02:25 as far as finding employment there? 02:27 Well, I have four grandchildren also 02:31 and it was an opportunity in that sense to get back home 02:36 and spend some time with the grandchildren. 02:39 So we did really two things. 02:43 You know, we came home to be with our family 02:46 and our friends but we came home, 02:48 you know, to spend some time with those four little people. 02:51 So, yes, yes, yes. Yes. 02:52 So, Pam, how did that affect you 02:54 as far as making a transition away 02:58 and then making a transition back? 02:59 Well, this is actually the second time. 03:02 We went to Akron for five years 03:04 and then we came back to Detroit. 03:06 Then we went to Chicago for three years 03:08 now we are back. 03:09 So, you know, I go wherever he goes. 03:12 That's so beautiful. Yes. 03:13 One year we had to, he lived-- 03:15 he had an apartment in Fort Wayne for a year 03:18 and I had to see him on the weekends. 03:20 And then Akron I would only see him in the weekends 03:23 for five years. 03:25 So-- 03:26 For five years you did? Yes, five years. 03:28 I was a traveler. Okay. 03:30 So I would leave the house on Monday morning 03:32 and be gone all week staying in hotels 03:35 and then make my way back home Friday afternoon. 03:39 And that's just how the job worked. 03:42 I had like 30 dealerships what I would stop 03:46 and I was a factory rep for these dealers. 03:49 So I was, I got home, you know, as often as I could. 03:53 So we had a great time on the weekends. 03:55 I have his favorite food cooked and have his clothes all washed 03:59 and put in the drawers, iron and hang in the closet. 04:03 And best foods that he wanted. 04:05 We had a good time on the weekend 04:06 but it was, you know, 04:08 it was sometimes it was starting to get old, you know. 04:10 Okay. 04:11 It took, did it take a toll on you eventually, 04:14 you know, with him gone? 04:16 It was five years, that's a lot of time. 04:17 Yeah. And me just with the children. 04:20 Yeah, that was a long time 04:21 and during that time as matter of fact when we moved 04:25 we both had problems with health. 04:28 I was diagnose with lupus shortly after we moved to Akron 04:32 and that was difficult because I had, 04:39 you know, issues with fatigue 04:41 and didn't have him there to help out. 04:44 You know, I was really on my own during the week. 04:46 Okay. 04:47 And girls were kind of little then. 04:49 Yeah, girls, the youngest one was five 04:52 and then Sharon would have been nine. 04:54 What is lupus? 04:56 It's an autoimmune disease that... 05:02 affects mostly women during childbearing years 05:05 and its, well, your body doesn't recognize self 05:10 and it attacks different organs. 05:13 And when? 05:16 It was like 30 years before went into remission 05:19 and now, I was in remission and I'm out of it again. 05:23 So it goes back and forth. Back and forth. 05:26 But Jeff is very, very, supportive. 05:29 A lot of lupus patients end up getting divorces 05:34 because to have a wife heal all those years it's hard. 05:40 But Jeff was always supportive. Sometimes too much. 05:44 He would get into bed with me rather than help me, 05:48 rather than do laundry. 05:50 Oh, okay. 05:52 I would want him to go do something 05:54 but he want to lie right next to me so he did. 05:58 Well, what were your concerns, you fears, Jeff? 06:02 You know, I've never really talked about my fears. 06:06 Lupus is a type of thing that has no cure. 06:10 And the way the symptoms play out 06:16 is your body devours itself and then you die. 06:22 And so there are moments that you have together 06:28 when you really just want to hear 06:32 what's on her mind, you know. 06:33 Here's a woman who suffers literally all the time 06:38 and sometimes she is in pain and she is not saying anything. 06:43 Sometimes she just feels fatigued 06:46 and she can't move or get up or do anything 06:49 and it has the effect of like the pressure on her 06:55 and I want, I want to respond, 07:00 I want to hear how she is feeling. 07:02 I want to do what she needs but you don't know 07:09 if you're not there when she says it. 07:12 So I just, 07:15 I don't know I follow her pretty closely sometimes 07:21 moving around the house just to, 07:24 you know, see what she's up to, what she is thinking. 07:27 Let me ask you this question and excuse us friend, 07:31 but it was just burning in my mind. 07:33 You know, are you angry, you know, about what transpire? 07:40 No. 07:42 Life is not fair and I know, 07:48 I had some health issues of my own 07:54 and I don't know where they came from. 07:56 I never smoked or, you know, drank 07:59 or anything like that and I lost a lung. 08:03 In Akron. Yes. 08:04 You had known? Yes. Yes. 08:06 He almost died in Akron. 08:07 So I don't know where that came from either. 08:11 It's like either you trust Jesus 08:15 or you don't and if you do 08:18 what are you gonna be mad about? 08:20 So did that make your faith stronger? 08:22 I think it did. I think it did. 08:26 Particularly because of the way I came out of that. 08:30 I had struggled for three years and had two surgeries 08:35 where they spilt you around the middle 08:38 and, you know, they-- 08:40 Operate those lungs. 08:41 Operate on the lung but... 08:44 the second time it wasn't successful either. 08:50 I still had this low grade fever 08:53 that just followed me around. 08:54 It was terrible. And couldn't get rid of it. 08:59 Couldn't shake it and I was underweight 09:02 and I remember just sitting in the bed 09:06 and I prayed a simple prayer. 09:09 Because I was done with surgery. 09:11 I wasn't gonna let them cut me anymore and-- 09:14 He had pneumonia for the third time. 09:18 I coughed and... 09:22 this calcified lymph node 09:26 popped up out of my lung on to a napkin 09:31 and that was it, that was it. 09:33 But before that-- 09:34 Everything behind that was infection and stuff 09:36 and all of that came out and I was-- 09:39 I have been good ever since. 09:40 That was it? That was it. 09:41 But his prayer was this, "Lord, what can you do for me?" 09:47 And he coughed shortly after saying that 09:50 and the obstructer came up. 09:52 It sure did. And that was it. 09:53 He hasn't had a problem with that since. 09:55 So when the doctors went in 09:56 they couldn't get that obstruction out of you? 09:58 Well, they didn't know it was. 10:00 It was at the lower part of his lung in the back 10:04 and they kept scoping him and they could never see it. 10:06 What? Yeah. 10:08 They X-rayed it, they scoped it. 10:11 They did everything except MRI 10:13 because I don't know they didn't do MRI 10:16 but there it was biggest day 10:19 and I saved it for the, in a little pill bottle 10:25 and gave it to him when he came in. 10:27 I said, "I'm good. I'm all right now." 10:30 And he said, "What do you mean?" 10:31 I showed him my little trophy there 10:33 and he look at that and he said, 10:36 "Wow, I've never seen anything like this before." 10:40 But literally came right up out of my mouth. 10:43 I was coughing 10:45 and the whole abscess just collapsed 10:49 and I was good within hours after that. 10:52 The fever went away. That was good to go. 10:55 No problem since. 10:57 I get out the next day didn't it? 10:58 I go get out the next day. Everything you do. 11:01 Yeah. Yeah, they let me out. 11:02 But I was actually thinking 11:04 that I was gonna have a funeral in Akron 11:06 and ship his body here and have another funeral. 11:08 You already planning it? Yes. 11:10 Because he said, I'm not gonna let them operate again 11:13 and he had pneumonia for the third time. 11:15 He was not responding to the antibiotics. 11:20 So... 11:24 And instead of a funeral we had a celebration of life. 11:29 You know, how do you explain 11:32 or express your love for each other? 11:35 How would, you know, 11:36 tell someone about your love for each other? 11:39 Well, the way I show him that I love him 11:42 like I tell my grandchildren is what I do for you. 11:45 So I spoiled him. 11:47 I really do and he calls his drawers, 11:51 magic drawers because they are always full. 11:56 So I plan from the very beginning to spoil him 12:00 and I did. 12:01 You know-- 12:02 Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You go ahead. 12:05 I tried at once, you know, where he came home 12:08 I was expecting a baby right, our last baby Aaron 12:11 and he said, he had a vision and I was lying in the bed. 12:14 I said, I need to do something. I'm eight months pregnant. 12:17 I said, oh, I'm gonna pull everything in his closet, 12:20 I'm gonna do with the drawers 12:22 but it look like SAKS Fifth Avenue. 12:24 He said, when he walked up the steps he said, 12:25 I knew you were in my closet. 12:29 And I, and I'm eight months pregnant 12:31 doing all these things. 12:32 Now ask me did I get spoiled by that 12:35 because I mean, that was a one time, 12:37 one time event and nothing else happened after that. 12:41 No spoiling or-- 12:43 He got a baby, you know. 12:46 So let me ask you this, you know, 12:48 in spoiling him, you know, 12:51 do you in turn spoil your wife as a reciprocated to her? 12:57 I feel very happy. Yeah. 13:00 I suppose to say I don't know quite with it. 13:03 Looks like I watch her, I'm attentive. 13:07 I try to see things that she needs. 13:10 I try to get things for her that she likes. 13:17 I maintain her car meticulously 13:20 so that she never has trouble with it. 13:22 We have own cars so, 13:24 you know, its necessary to pay attention to them 13:28 so that they stay reliable. 13:29 You put gas in her tank? I do. 13:32 Sometimes. I do. 13:33 I do it all the time. 13:36 When was last time you put some gas in my tank? 13:38 Right before I went to Orlando. 13:40 You did. He did. 13:41 Prior to that it was 20 years ago. 13:44 You know, they forget. They forget. 13:47 They won't forget. 13:48 Though I remind him, you know, 13:50 whatever I think he is not doing I'll tell him. 13:54 Really? 13:55 She doesn't think if it is nagging? 13:57 She does nagging? 13:58 Because you know what, 14:00 she has so many different little things 14:02 that she needs help with. 14:06 If she goes out in the cold her hands will-- 14:11 I have Raynaud's. Yeah. 14:13 So, so I want to-- 14:15 What are Raynaud's? I want t o pump the gas. 14:17 I want to keep her warm. 14:18 Like it chills the arteries constrict 14:22 and the blood won't flow. 14:23 Yes. Really? Yeah, so, yeah. 14:25 And I have five of my elders to do so. 14:27 I'm exhausted and I have a lot of pain with that. 14:30 She is a little, she is, you know, 14:33 those little ceramic plants 14:36 that they have that are real fragile. 14:37 You take it over and it will break. 14:39 This is how I have to follow her around 14:42 and make sure that she doesn't break. 14:43 Some days he wants to try make me stop 14:45 but the days when I do that for energy 14:47 I want to do everything. 14:49 So there are days 14:51 when it's just become very difficult, you know. 14:55 Yeah, you have to stay in the bed 14:56 or sit in a chair all day not move. 15:00 Okay, I may ask a question. 15:01 In 38 years you've never had a disagreement? 15:05 We have never had a major falling out 15:07 and you have seven-eight year marriage 15:09 you have this time of adjustment. 15:12 We didn't have it. No, we didn't. 15:14 We like two pieces of a pot. 15:17 Yeah. Yeah, but I-- 15:19 Can I start following you around in your way? 15:22 That would drive me crazy. 15:23 I go for golf with you. 15:25 No. 15:28 Well, you asked that. 15:30 Okay, I'll drive the little cart for you. 15:33 No. No. I'll go with you. 15:34 You can drive me to the cart of course. 15:38 You know, so no major? No. 15:40 In front of the children because you know, 15:42 you hear about couples arguing in front of their children 15:46 and, you know, how to resolve that. 15:48 So never, you know-- 15:50 Well, we go to the mall-- 15:51 My kids are so easily embarrassed. 15:54 So we have the disagreement in the mall. 15:55 They will say, "Ah, you two." 15:59 And then, you know, they want to both scatter 16:01 and we just, you know, 16:03 discuss or approach to it something like that. 16:05 But no, we haven't, we haven't had a, 16:07 we haven't had a hard time. 16:09 You know, what I find interesting, 16:10 when we are in church, you know, 16:11 and I'm proud to say that, 16:13 you know, we're members together 16:15 but when Elder Logan is on the roster 16:19 I will see him look at you. 16:21 Oh, when I turn around doing some part of the service 16:23 I will catch him looking at you 16:25 and it's just so beautiful and romantic 16:28 because even in the house of God 16:31 you can see the love. 16:32 And this is why I wanted you on the program 16:35 because it's genuine 16:37 and that's I'll never seen since the day I met you all. 16:39 But I have-- I think you receive it more than that. 16:42 I think yes, there is love and sensitivity 16:47 but I also think that 16:49 going through some difficult times together, 16:52 the trials and the tribulations, you know, 16:54 that creates a certain bond 16:57 that lot of people never achieve in their lives. 17:01 You know, and you both had 17:03 gone through some very difficult times. 17:05 Yeah, we did it. 17:06 You know, so that draws you to even more close. 17:10 Even the way you talk, 17:11 you know, there is a sensitivity and a respect 17:15 that I see for each other. 17:17 Now that's the key for lot of marriages 17:20 and a lot of relationships 17:22 is if you have respect for each other 17:25 then all the residence stuff is like you keyed into it. 17:30 You know, I prayed for a husband 17:35 that will love Jesus more than me 17:37 and then be second 17:38 and that's what He gave me. 17:40 He gave me great guy. 17:41 It's the easiest thing in the world 17:43 to love this man 17:45 and you see he is so kind 17:47 and he cares about everybody, he is giving. 17:51 I mean, it's easy. 17:52 I try to Kim that only time I mean-- 17:53 When did you try tell me? 17:55 When did you try tell me? 17:56 You didn't hear describe me? 18:01 You know what, and obvious he is very kind, 18:03 he is very loving and giving, you know, 18:05 he brings Chinese home 18:06 because he can't really, he is not a gourmet chef. 18:09 But I do know that we've learned some things 18:14 just through observation. 18:15 I think Arthur is right. 18:17 A lot of couples don't know how to weather the storm 18:20 and they give up. 18:21 And as he was saying 18:23 there are many divorces with couples 18:24 suffering from lupus or any type 18:26 then they will walk away from it. 18:28 You know, Arthur was saying divorce is easy, 18:30 you know, marriage takes work. 18:33 And this is a lot of work, you know. 18:35 What do you love about each other? 18:37 What do you really like? 18:39 Are you friends? 18:40 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 18:41 That's why-- That's why you invited me. 18:43 Yeah, definitely. 18:44 We do not want to take it for granted. 18:45 I want to ask. 18:47 But they have been talking the whole show 18:48 and they said they were loving and kind. 18:50 I mean, doesn't that make, okay, I will do. 18:52 Do you know what, you're feeling some pain? 18:55 You know, when you work together 18:56 I'd follow him around. 18:57 But what do you, 18:59 what thing you like about each other? 19:01 I just like the kind of person that he is. 19:04 Pam can, she can anticipate 19:09 things that I need. 19:14 Sometimes it's desperation 19:17 because she will look past 19:22 what I'm doing to what I mean to be doing. 19:26 And she will, she actually remind me 19:30 about something that I didn't do 19:32 and I know that she reminds me because I got a great memory 19:37 but I've gotten even better forgetter. 19:39 So she will remind me of stuff that she knows I meant to do 19:44 and-- 19:45 Well, sometimes I nag him 19:47 because I'm trying to pull out of him 19:54 where I'm trying to get it. 19:55 He takes the long time to say something. 19:56 She's a little girl. She's a little girl. 19:58 And I want to get to the point. 19:59 And sometimes, you know, 20:01 I wanted to remind him of things 20:02 so I'm asking him all of these questions 20:04 to help him remember 20:05 what he is suppose to doing and stay away. 20:08 Sometimes he its nagging to him. 20:12 It's nagging. Yeah. 20:13 Well, listen already we are out of time 20:16 and you are gonna comeback. 20:17 Will you do that for us? Yes. 20:18 Okay. We got to do another segment. 20:20 So we want to thank you for being on our program. 20:22 Jeff and Pam Logan, endless love. 20:25 God bless you. God bless. 20:26 Thank you. Amen. 20:29 Arthur, that was a wonderful interview. 20:32 Jeff and Pam were excellent. 20:33 And so transparent. Yeah. 20:35 And that's so, 20:36 that's so important in our relationship today. 20:38 Arthur, let's talk about some of the things 20:40 they were dealing with, you know, 20:42 transition in employment, her health issues with lupus 20:46 and just being helpful around the house 20:48 because, you know, being able to get husbands 20:53 to clean the house and getting them involved. 20:55 I don't know about you viewing audience 20:57 its difficult to get Arthur to pick up a broom. 20:59 I tell you, all right. 21:01 You have to go there. 21:02 I just had to go there, all right. 21:04 But how do we begin to help our couples 21:07 and understanding the stressors even in our loving marriage. 21:10 Where is the misconnections? 21:11 Well, I think one of the things that was really important is 21:14 Jeff and Pam recognized that. 21:16 It was absolutely necessary 21:18 that they develop their relationship 21:19 with the Lord. 21:21 You know, through prayer they felt motivated 21:24 that they would get through 21:25 and Jeff and Pam has always been at a point 21:30 where they wanted people to recognize 21:32 that their relationship with God 21:35 is a foundation, you know. 21:37 So that's one thing that's essential. 21:39 And the Bible says "pray without ceasing." 21:42 Absolutely. All right. 21:44 So prayer is our first solution. 21:45 We've got to include God in every step of the way. 21:48 And I want to ask the question, 21:50 do you start your day with prayer as a couple? 21:53 Do you call each other throughout the day, 21:55 even texting a prayer and then coming home 21:58 having family worship together and having prayer together? 22:02 Because sometimes we get, you know, get distracted 22:05 but we cannot forget about the Lord. 22:07 Number two, what can we do? 22:09 I think you really have to recognize 22:12 what the problem really is, you know. 22:14 Because you can't address the problem 22:15 you don't know what it is. 22:17 You don't know what the problem is 22:18 and then we are talking about spinning your wills. 22:21 So its really important that you understand, 22:23 if you have a lack of communication, 22:25 if there are some issues that need to be discussed 22:28 but unfortunately there is anger 22:30 that's preventing you 22:31 from really getting to those issues 22:33 then once again you need to have 22:35 some understanding of how to accomplish that goal. 22:39 You know, the Bible says in 2 Chronicles 7:14, 22:43 "If my people, would humble themselves 22:45 and pray and seek my face." 22:48 Now that's something that Jeff did. 22:50 He humbled himself to help his wife 22:52 even around the house with the chores. 22:55 And we always say the three issues of marriage is 22:58 communication, finance and responsibilities 23:02 within the household, all right. 23:05 And he humbled himself to help her. 23:06 But Jeff it was not difficult for him, you know. 23:10 And why wasn't it difficult for him? 23:12 Is because of his personality. 23:14 Jeff was committed and that's a third thing 23:18 that needs to be brought out, commitment. 23:20 Commitment. 23:21 He needs to really recognize a person 23:24 that's having some negative experience 23:28 they must understand 23:29 that commitment is going to be very important. 23:32 And then you need to take action 23:34 and whatever is required for you 23:36 to improve the situation. 23:38 Okay, so I can recognize what the problem is 23:41 but at the same time if I don't move forward 23:44 because the Bible said, "Faith is dead without works." 23:47 So if I'm not moving forward is just doing nothing. 23:50 I'm not making any progress. 23:52 So now I take then say action steps. 23:54 You have to understand, I have to do something. 23:57 And unfortunately a lot of times 24:00 when people are going through some real difficult times 24:03 in their relationship 24:05 then they fail to really exhibit 24:07 some method of change, you know. 24:10 I need to change my behavior 24:13 and they become stagnant in a relationship. 24:15 So they become a changed agent. 24:17 Yes. All right. 24:18 Making sure that I'm responsible for this. 24:20 I've got to hold myself accountable. 24:22 Most important. 24:23 So accountability can definitely 24:25 be a solution holding myself. 24:26 You know, and not just demonstrate silence 24:30 and hoping that the issue will go away. 24:33 If I don't really address, I don't pay any attention 24:36 just go and anticipate, this won't go away but its not. 24:39 And we just walking past each other 24:41 and not addressing the issues 24:43 and now we are no longer husband and wife, 24:44 husband and wife 24:46 but we are strangers living together. 24:47 Well, see Pam and Jeff they continue 24:50 to show their commitment towards each other. 24:52 They willing to work on it. 24:54 Though and don't forget about their children. 24:56 You know, even now you could see 24:58 how their commitment, 25:00 their spirit, their relationship 25:02 is even brought out in a way that they have children. 25:05 And they have grandchildren. 25:06 And they have grandchildren to present themselves. 25:08 Oh, definitely. 25:10 I think that crucial aspect or part of their relation 25:14 they love each other. 25:15 The love is genuine. 25:17 And they understand what family really means. 25:19 You know, what is the essence of family? 25:22 How do we really, really demonstrate that? 25:25 And that's what we are. 25:26 We need to recognize that family. 25:29 Without family there is nothing. 25:31 So support. Absolutely. 25:32 You need to be a support to each other. 25:34 I think in marriage and being married to you, 25:36 Arthur, being able to show support, 25:39 showing understanding, showing love, sensitivity. 25:42 Why is sensitivity so important 25:44 or can be a crucial solution in marriage? 25:46 The way you say things, 25:48 the way you use your nonverbal cues 25:52 is really important 25:53 because even though if you don't speak 25:56 but if you demonstrate anger by rolling your eyes 26:00 or turning away or not giving contact 26:04 in a respectful manner. 26:06 Then that can be irritating. 26:08 You know, its like I'm trying to talk to you 26:10 and you're trying to read something 26:11 or you're reading newspaper 26:13 and you are not even giving me the eye contact that I need. 26:16 Eye contact lets me know that you care, 26:18 you're concerned and you're in tuned. 26:20 I think being in tuned with your spouse 26:24 and in your marriage is crucial 26:25 and being able to relate to them 26:27 and being able to understand how they are proceeding. 26:30 So, you know, be mindful of your tone, 26:33 take it down a notch, be mindful. 26:35 Listening is crucial in a healthy, loving marriage. 26:39 And I think that understanding how to listen, 26:42 everyone doesn't know how to listen. 26:44 Listening along with once again the ability to recognize 26:49 where the problem exists 26:51 and making a commitment to change the problem. 26:55 Say it to yourself, 26:56 "I'm going to make a difference. 26:58 I'm not going to be the same." 27:00 And that means that you are taking a action. 27:03 You want to do something different. 27:05 You want to improve the situation 27:06 and so you are not just gonna let something continuing 27:10 to hover over your relationship 27:12 and prevent you from having a good marriage. 27:15 Having a good marriage. 27:16 Well, listen I like that and I just hope and pray 27:19 that these solutions will help you. 27:21 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin. 27:24 And thank you for joining us on Making It Work. 27:27 God bless. |
Revised 2016-04-04