Hi, I'm Dr. Kim
Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to Making it Work.
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Arthur, I'm so excited, we
get to talk about marriage.
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You know, when you think about
marriage what comes to mind?
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Work, Kim. A lot of work.
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A lot of work.
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I've heard you say
before that divorce is easy
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but marriage takes work.
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What are some things that
has to be done to make it work?
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Developing a
method of communication
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is important to me.
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Always. Always. Yes.
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And also we are dealing
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with different
types of personalities.
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Absolutely.
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And do you think that
family origin plays into that?
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It's definitely issue. Okay.
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So today we want to
welcome Jeff and Pam
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and we want to look at marriage,
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even on stresses,
even in a loving marriage
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because it takes
love to make it work.
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Jeff and Pam Logan,
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it's so great to
have you on our show.
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You know, actually we've
been really, really anticipating
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that you have
some wonderful things
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to enlighten us because
you left Detroit for a while
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and went to
Chicago and, you know,
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I don't know of any other places
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that you may
have ventured off to
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but we missed you
and now you're back.
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You know, so
give us some insight
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on what really
brought you back to this area?
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Well, the
automotive industry of which,
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you know, I'm a part is
a kind of cyclical business
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and from time to time
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in automotive
there be a downturn
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and a manufacture will
layoff, publications type.
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And publications
people can be out of work,
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you know, from time to time.
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You don't do
Chicago without a job.
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You come back home. Yes, you do.
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So it was kind of difficult
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as far as
finding employment there?
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Well, I have four
grandchildren also
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and it was an opportunity
in that sense to get back home
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and spend some time
with the grandchildren.
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So we did really two things.
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You know, we came
home to be with our family
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and our friends
but we came home,
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you know, to spend some time
with those four little people.
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So, yes, yes, yes. Yes.
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So, Pam, how did that affect you
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as far as making
a transition away
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and then making
a transition back?
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Well, this is
actually the second time.
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We went to Akron for five years
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and then we
came back to Detroit.
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Then we went to
Chicago for three years
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now we are back.
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So, you know, I
go wherever he goes.
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That's so beautiful. Yes.
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One year we had to, he lived--
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he had an apartment
in Fort Wayne for a year
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and I had to see
him on the weekends.
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And then Akron I would
only see him in the weekends
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for five years.
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So--
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For five years you
did? Yes, five years.
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I was a traveler. Okay.
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So I would leave the
house on Monday morning
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and be gone all
week staying in hotels
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and then make my way
back home Friday afternoon.
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And that's just
how the job worked.
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I had like 30
dealerships what I would stop
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and I was a factory
rep for these dealers.
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So I was, I got home, you
know, as often as I could.
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So we had a great
time on the weekends.
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I have his favorite food cooked
and have his clothes all washed
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and put in the drawers,
iron and hang in the closet.
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And best foods that he wanted.
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We had a good
time on the weekend
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but it was, you know,
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it was sometimes it was
starting to get old, you know.
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Okay.
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It took, did it take a
toll on you eventually,
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you know, with him gone?
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It was five years,
that's a lot of time.
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Yeah. And me just
with the children.
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Yeah, that was a long time
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and during that time as
matter of fact when we moved
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we both had
problems with health.
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I was diagnose with lupus
shortly after we moved to Akron
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and that was
difficult because I had,
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you know, issues with fatigue
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and didn't have
him there to help out.
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You know, I was really
on my own during the week.
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Okay.
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And girls were
kind of little then.
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Yeah, girls, the
youngest one was five
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and then Sharon
would have been nine.
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What is lupus?
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It's an
autoimmune disease that...
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affects mostly women
during childbearing years
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and its, well, your
body doesn't recognize self
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and it attacks different organs.
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And when?
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It was like 30 years
before went into remission
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and now, I was in remission
and I'm out of it again.
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So it goes back and
forth. Back and forth.
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But Jeff is
very, very, supportive.
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A lot of lupus
patients end up getting divorces
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because to have a wife
heal all those years it's hard.
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But Jeff was always
supportive. Sometimes too much.
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He would get into bed
with me rather than help me,
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rather than do laundry.
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Oh, okay.
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I would want him
to go do something
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but he want to lie
right next to me so he did.
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Well, what were your
concerns, you fears, Jeff?
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You know, I've never
really talked about my fears.
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Lupus is a type of
thing that has no cure.
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And the way the
symptoms play out
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is your body devours
itself and then you die.
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And so there are
moments that you have together
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when you really
just want to hear
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what's on her mind, you know.
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Here's a woman who
suffers literally all the time
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and sometimes she is in pain
and she is not saying anything.
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Sometimes she
just feels fatigued
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and she can't move
or get up or do anything
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and it has the effect
of like the pressure on her
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and I want, I want to respond,
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I want to hear
how she is feeling.
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I want to do what she
needs but you don't know
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if you're not
there when she says it.
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So I just,
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I don't know I follow
her pretty closely sometimes
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moving around the house just to,
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you know, see what she's
up to, what she is thinking.
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Let me ask you this
question and excuse us friend,
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but it was just
burning in my mind.
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You know, are you angry,
you know, about what transpire?
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No.
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Life is not fair and I know,
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I had some
health issues of my own
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and I don't know
where they came from.
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I never smoked
or, you know, drank
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or anything like
that and I lost a lung.
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In Akron. Yes.
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You had known? Yes. Yes.
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He almost died in Akron.
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So I don't know where
that came from either.
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It's like either you trust Jesus
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or you don't and if you do
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what are you gonna be mad about?
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So did that make
your faith stronger?
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I think it did. I think it did.
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Particularly because of
the way I came out of that.
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I had struggled for three
years and had two surgeries
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where they spilt
you around the middle
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and, you know, they--
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Operate those lungs.
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Operate on the lung but...
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the second time it
wasn't successful either.
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I still had this low grade fever
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that just followed me around.
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It was terrible. And
couldn't get rid of it.
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Couldn't shake it
and I was underweight
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and I remember
just sitting in the bed
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and I prayed a simple prayer.
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Because I was done with surgery.
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I wasn't gonna let
them cut me anymore and--
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He had pneumonia
for the third time.
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I coughed and...
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this calcified lymph node
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popped up out of
my lung on to a napkin
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and that was it, that was it.
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But before that--
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Everything behind that
was infection and stuff
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and all of that
came out and I was--
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I have been good ever since.
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That was it? That was it.
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But his prayer was this,
"Lord, what can you do for me?"
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And he coughed
shortly after saying that
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and the obstructer came up.
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It sure did. And that was it.
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He hasn't had a
problem with that since.
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So when the doctors went in
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they couldn't get that
obstruction out of you?
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Well, they didn't know it was.
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It was at the lower
part of his lung in the back
00:10:00.36\00:10:03.97
and they kept scoping him
and they could never see it.
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What? Yeah.
00:10:06.87\00:10:08.20
They X-rayed it, they scoped it.
00:10:08.24\00:10:11.24
They did everything except MRI
00:10:11.27\00:10:13.81
because I don't
know they didn't do MRI
00:10:13.84\00:10:16.54
but there it was biggest day
00:10:16.58\00:10:19.95
and I saved it for
the, in a little pill bottle
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and gave it to
him when he came in.
00:10:25.39\00:10:27.39
I said, "I'm good.
I'm all right now."
00:10:27.42\00:10:30.03
And he said, "What do you mean?"
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I showed him my
little trophy there
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and he look at that and he said,
00:10:33.83\00:10:36.40
"Wow, I've never seen
anything like this before."
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But literally came
right up out of my mouth.
00:10:40.44\00:10:43.61
I was coughing
00:10:43.64\00:10:44.97
and the whole
abscess just collapsed
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and I was good
within hours after that.
00:10:49.54\00:10:52.58
The fever went
away. That was good to go.
00:10:52.61\00:10:55.68
No problem since.
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I get out the
next day didn't it?
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I go get out the next
day. Everything you do.
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Yeah. Yeah, they let me out.
00:11:01.16\00:11:02.89
But I was actually thinking
00:11:02.92\00:11:04.26
that I was gonna
have a funeral in Akron
00:11:04.29\00:11:06.86
and ship his body here
and have another funeral.
00:11:06.90\00:11:08.23
You already planning it? Yes.
00:11:08.26\00:11:10.63
Because he said, I'm not
gonna let them operate again
00:11:10.67\00:11:13.10
and he had
pneumonia for the third time.
00:11:13.13\00:11:15.40
He was not
responding to the antibiotics.
00:11:15.44\00:11:20.38
So...
00:11:20.41\00:11:21.74
And instead of a funeral
we had a celebration of life.
00:11:24.45\00:11:29.55
You know, how do you explain
00:11:29.58\00:11:32.92
or express your
love for each other?
00:11:32.95\00:11:35.12
How would, you know,
00:11:35.16\00:11:36.76
tell someone about
your love for each other?
00:11:36.79\00:11:39.66
Well, the way I
show him that I love him
00:11:39.69\00:11:42.56
like I tell my grandchildren
is what I do for you.
00:11:42.60\00:11:45.80
So I spoiled him.
00:11:45.83\00:11:47.60
I really do and
he calls his drawers,
00:11:47.64\00:11:50.97
magic drawers
because they are always full.
00:11:51.01\00:11:56.71
So I plan from the
very beginning to spoil him
00:11:56.75\00:12:00.08
and I did.
00:12:00.12\00:12:01.45
You know--
00:12:01.48\00:12:02.82
Wait a minute. Wait
a minute. You go ahead.
00:12:02.85\00:12:05.55
I tried at once, you
know, where he came home
00:12:05.59\00:12:08.56
I was expecting a baby
right, our last baby Aaron
00:12:08.59\00:12:11.86
and he said, he had a vision
and I was lying in the bed.
00:12:11.89\00:12:14.86
I said, I need to do something.
I'm eight months pregnant.
00:12:14.90\00:12:17.57
I said, oh, I'm gonna
pull everything in his closet,
00:12:17.60\00:12:20.67
I'm gonna do with the drawers
00:12:20.70\00:12:22.04
but it look like
SAKS Fifth Avenue.
00:12:22.07\00:12:24.11
He said, when he
walked up the steps he said,
00:12:24.14\00:12:25.94
I knew you were in my closet.
00:12:25.97\00:12:29.04
And I, and I'm
eight months pregnant
00:12:29.08\00:12:31.11
doing all these things.
00:12:31.15\00:12:32.48
Now ask me did I
get spoiled by that
00:12:32.51\00:12:35.68
because I mean,
that was a one time,
00:12:35.72\00:12:37.65
one time event and nothing
else happened after that.
00:12:37.69\00:12:41.72
No spoiling or--
00:12:41.76\00:12:43.19
He got a baby, you know.
00:12:43.22\00:12:46.46
So let me ask
you this, you know,
00:12:46.49\00:12:48.56
in spoiling him, you know,
00:12:48.60\00:12:51.53
do you in turn spoil your
wife as a reciprocated to her?
00:12:51.57\00:12:57.71
I feel very happy. Yeah.
00:12:57.74\00:13:00.28
I suppose to say I
don't know quite with it.
00:13:00.31\00:13:03.01
Looks like I watch
her, I'm attentive.
00:13:03.04\00:13:07.12
I try to see
things that she needs.
00:13:07.15\00:13:10.15
I try to get things
for her that she likes.
00:13:10.19\00:13:14.26
I maintain her car meticulously
00:13:17.89\00:13:20.56
so that she never
has trouble with it.
00:13:20.60\00:13:22.76
We have own cars so,
00:13:22.80\00:13:24.70
you know, its necessary
to pay attention to them
00:13:24.73\00:13:28.00
so that they stay reliable.
00:13:28.04\00:13:29.84
You put gas in her tank? I do.
00:13:29.87\00:13:32.14
Sometimes. I do.
00:13:32.17\00:13:33.68
I do it all the time.
00:13:33.71\00:13:36.01
When was last time you
put some gas in my tank?
00:13:36.04\00:13:38.61
Right before I went to Orlando.
00:13:38.65\00:13:40.22
You did. He did.
00:13:40.25\00:13:41.92
Prior to that it
was 20 years ago.
00:13:41.95\00:13:44.09
You know, they
forget. They forget.
00:13:44.12\00:13:47.46
They won't forget.
00:13:47.49\00:13:48.92
Though I remind him, you know,
00:13:48.96\00:13:50.93
whatever I think he is
not doing I'll tell him.
00:13:50.96\00:13:54.33
Really?
00:13:54.36\00:13:55.70
She doesn't
think if it is nagging?
00:13:55.73\00:13:57.20
She does nagging?
00:13:57.23\00:13:58.73
Because you know what,
00:13:58.77\00:14:00.70
she has so many
different little things
00:14:00.74\00:14:02.74
that she needs help with.
00:14:02.77\00:14:06.88
If she goes out in
the cold her hands will--
00:14:06.91\00:14:11.08
I have Raynaud's. Yeah.
00:14:11.11\00:14:13.31
So, so I want to--
00:14:13.35\00:14:15.12
What are Raynaud's? I
want t o pump the gas.
00:14:15.15\00:14:16.99
I want to keep her warm.
00:14:17.02\00:14:18.35
Like it chills
the arteries constrict
00:14:18.39\00:14:22.42
and the blood won't flow.
00:14:22.46\00:14:23.79
Yes. Really? Yeah, so, yeah.
00:14:23.83\00:14:25.66
And I have five of
my elders to do so.
00:14:25.69\00:14:27.86
I'm exhausted and I
have a lot of pain with that.
00:14:27.90\00:14:30.73
She is a little,
she is, you know,
00:14:30.77\00:14:33.13
those little ceramic plants
00:14:33.17\00:14:36.20
that they have
that are real fragile.
00:14:36.24\00:14:37.91
You take it over
and it will break.
00:14:37.94\00:14:39.77
This is how I have
to follow her around
00:14:39.81\00:14:42.21
and make sure
that she doesn't break.
00:14:42.24\00:14:43.88
Some days he wants
to try make me stop
00:14:43.91\00:14:45.75
but the days when
I do that for energy
00:14:45.78\00:14:47.68
I want to do everything.
00:14:47.72\00:14:49.78
So there are days
00:14:49.82\00:14:51.79
when it's just become
very difficult, you know.
00:14:51.82\00:14:55.59
Yeah, you have
to stay in the bed
00:14:55.62\00:14:56.96
or sit in a
chair all day not move.
00:14:56.99\00:15:00.13
Okay, I may ask a question.
00:15:00.16\00:15:01.56
In 38 years you've
never had a disagreement?
00:15:01.60\00:15:05.80
We have never had
a major falling out
00:15:05.83\00:15:07.90
and you have
seven-eight year marriage
00:15:07.94\00:15:09.40
you have this
time of adjustment.
00:15:09.44\00:15:12.64
We didn't have
it. No, we didn't.
00:15:12.67\00:15:14.38
We like two pieces of a pot.
00:15:14.41\00:15:17.88
Yeah. Yeah, but I--
00:15:17.91\00:15:19.71
Can I start following
you around in your way?
00:15:19.75\00:15:22.15
That would drive me crazy.
00:15:22.18\00:15:23.52
I go for golf with you.
00:15:23.55\00:15:25.15
No.
00:15:25.19\00:15:28.59
Well, you asked that.
00:15:28.62\00:15:30.36
Okay, I'll drive
the little cart for you.
00:15:30.39\00:15:32.99
No. No. I'll go with you.
00:15:33.03\00:15:34.66
You can drive me
to the cart of course.
00:15:34.70\00:15:38.30
You know, so no major? No.
00:15:38.33\00:15:40.90
In front of the
children because you know,
00:15:40.94\00:15:42.94
you hear about couples arguing
in front of their children
00:15:42.97\00:15:46.27
and, you know,
how to resolve that.
00:15:46.31\00:15:48.68
So never, you know--
00:15:48.71\00:15:50.51
Well, we go to the mall--
00:15:50.55\00:15:51.88
My kids are so
easily embarrassed.
00:15:51.91\00:15:54.22
So we have the
disagreement in the mall.
00:15:54.25\00:15:55.88
They will say, "Ah, you two."
00:15:55.92\00:15:58.99
And then, you know,
they want to both scatter
00:15:59.02\00:16:01.39
and we just, you know,
00:16:01.42\00:16:03.32
discuss or approach to
it something like that.
00:16:03.36\00:16:05.46
But no, we
haven't, we haven't had a,
00:16:05.49\00:16:07.66
we haven't had a hard time.
00:16:07.70\00:16:09.03
You know, what I
find interesting,
00:16:09.06\00:16:10.40
when we are in church, you know,
00:16:10.43\00:16:11.93
and I'm proud to say that,
00:16:11.97\00:16:13.90
you know, we're members together
00:16:13.94\00:16:15.70
but when Elder
Logan is on the roster
00:16:15.74\00:16:19.31
I will see him look at you.
00:16:19.34\00:16:21.18
Oh, when I turn around
doing some part of the service
00:16:21.21\00:16:23.95
I will catch him looking at you
00:16:23.98\00:16:25.88
and it's just so
beautiful and romantic
00:16:25.91\00:16:28.42
because even in the house of God
00:16:28.45\00:16:31.09
you can see the love.
00:16:31.12\00:16:32.95
And this is why I
wanted you on the program
00:16:32.99\00:16:35.62
because it's genuine
00:16:35.66\00:16:36.99
and that's I'll never seen
since the day I met you all.
00:16:37.03\00:16:39.93
But I have-- I think you
receive it more than that.
00:16:39.96\00:16:42.73
I think yes, there
is love and sensitivity
00:16:42.76\00:16:47.24
but I also think that
00:16:47.27\00:16:49.07
going through some
difficult times together,
00:16:49.10\00:16:51.97
the trials and the
tribulations, you know,
00:16:52.01\00:16:54.68
that creates a certain bond
00:16:54.71\00:16:57.01
that lot of people
never achieve in their lives.
00:16:57.05\00:17:01.28
You know, and you both had
00:17:01.32\00:17:03.55
gone through some
very difficult times.
00:17:03.59\00:17:05.29
Yeah, we did it.
00:17:05.32\00:17:06.65
You know, so that
draws you to even more close.
00:17:06.69\00:17:10.13
Even the way you talk,
00:17:10.16\00:17:11.89
you know, there is a
sensitivity and a respect
00:17:11.93\00:17:15.16
that I see for each other.
00:17:15.20\00:17:17.57
Now that's the key
for lot of marriages
00:17:17.60\00:17:20.54
and a lot of relationships
00:17:20.57\00:17:22.34
is if you have
respect for each other
00:17:22.37\00:17:25.71
then all the residence
stuff is like you keyed into it.
00:17:25.74\00:17:30.48
You know, I prayed for a husband
00:17:30.51\00:17:35.42
that will love
Jesus more than me
00:17:35.45\00:17:37.39
and then be second
00:17:37.42\00:17:38.75
and that's what He gave me.
00:17:38.79\00:17:40.12
He gave me great guy.
00:17:40.16\00:17:41.49
It's the easiest
thing in the world
00:17:41.52\00:17:43.12
to love this man
00:17:43.16\00:17:45.39
and you see he is so kind
00:17:45.43\00:17:47.60
and he cares about
everybody, he is giving.
00:17:47.63\00:17:50.97
I mean, it's easy.
00:17:51.00\00:17:52.50
I try to Kim that
only time I mean--
00:17:52.53\00:17:53.87
When did you try tell me?
00:17:53.90\00:17:55.40
When did you try tell me?
00:17:55.44\00:17:56.77
You didn't hear describe me?
00:17:56.81\00:18:00.98
You know what, and
obvious he is very kind,
00:18:01.01\00:18:03.75
he is very loving
and giving, you know,
00:18:03.78\00:18:05.28
he brings Chinese home
00:18:05.31\00:18:06.65
because he can't really,
he is not a gourmet chef.
00:18:06.68\00:18:09.28
But I do know that
we've learned some things
00:18:09.32\00:18:14.56
just through observation.
00:18:14.59\00:18:15.92
I think Arthur is right.
00:18:15.96\00:18:17.29
A lot of couples don't
know how to weather the storm
00:18:17.33\00:18:20.53
and they give up.
00:18:20.56\00:18:21.90
And as he was saying
00:18:21.93\00:18:23.26
there are many
divorces with couples
00:18:23.30\00:18:24.63
suffering from lupus or any type
00:18:24.67\00:18:26.63
then they will
walk away from it.
00:18:26.67\00:18:28.54
You know, Arthur was
saying divorce is easy,
00:18:28.57\00:18:30.87
you know, marriage takes work.
00:18:30.91\00:18:33.14
And this is a lot
of work, you know.
00:18:33.17\00:18:35.18
What do you love
about each other?
00:18:35.21\00:18:37.61
What do you really like?
00:18:37.65\00:18:39.05
Are you friends?
00:18:39.08\00:18:40.42
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:18:40.45\00:18:41.85
That's why--
That's why you invited me.
00:18:41.88\00:18:43.22
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:43.25\00:18:44.59
We do not want to
take it for granted.
00:18:44.62\00:18:45.95
I want to ask.
00:18:45.99\00:18:47.32
But they have been
talking the whole show
00:18:47.36\00:18:48.69
and they said they
were loving and kind.
00:18:48.72\00:18:50.06
I mean, doesn't that
make, okay, I will do.
00:18:50.09\00:18:52.13
Do you know what,
you're feeling some pain?
00:18:52.16\00:18:54.96
You know, when you work together
00:18:55.00\00:18:56.33
I'd follow him around.
00:18:56.36\00:18:57.70
But what do you,
00:18:57.73\00:18:59.07
what thing you
like about each other?
00:18:59.10\00:19:01.54
I just like the kind
of person that he is.
00:19:01.57\00:19:04.84
Pam can, she can anticipate
00:19:04.87\00:19:09.11
things that I need.
00:19:09.14\00:19:14.08
Sometimes it's desperation
00:19:14.12\00:19:16.99
because she will look past
00:19:17.02\00:19:22.86
what I'm doing to
what I mean to be doing.
00:19:22.89\00:19:26.39
And she will, she
actually remind me
00:19:26.43\00:19:30.47
about something that I didn't do
00:19:30.50\00:19:32.13
and I know that she reminds
me because I got a great memory
00:19:32.17\00:19:37.37
but I've gotten
even better forgetter.
00:19:37.41\00:19:39.81
So she will remind me of stuff
that she knows I meant to do
00:19:39.84\00:19:44.48
and--
00:19:44.51\00:19:45.85
Well, sometimes I nag him
00:19:45.88\00:19:47.42
because I'm
trying to pull out of him
00:19:47.45\00:19:54.02
where I'm trying to get it.
00:19:54.06\00:19:55.39
He takes the long
time to say something.
00:19:55.42\00:19:56.76
She's a little
girl. She's a little girl.
00:19:56.79\00:19:58.13
And I want to get to the point.
00:19:58.16\00:19:59.69
And sometimes, you know,
00:19:59.73\00:20:01.06
I wanted to remind him of things
00:20:01.10\00:20:02.70
so I'm asking him
all of these questions
00:20:02.73\00:20:04.33
to help him remember
00:20:04.37\00:20:05.70
what he is suppose
to doing and stay away.
00:20:05.73\00:20:08.57
Sometimes he its nagging to him.
00:20:08.60\00:20:12.44
It's nagging. Yeah.
00:20:12.47\00:20:13.81
Well, listen
already we are out of time
00:20:13.84\00:20:15.98
and you are gonna comeback.
00:20:16.01\00:20:17.35
Will you do that for us? Yes.
00:20:17.38\00:20:18.71
Okay. We got to
do another segment.
00:20:18.75\00:20:20.35
So we want to thank you
for being on our program.
00:20:20.38\00:20:22.88
Jeff and Pam
Logan, endless love.
00:20:22.92\00:20:25.05
God bless you. God bless.
00:20:25.09\00:20:26.92
Thank you. Amen.
00:20:26.96\00:20:29.32
Arthur, that was a
wonderful interview.
00:20:29.36\00:20:32.03
Jeff and Pam were excellent.
00:20:32.06\00:20:33.40
And so transparent. Yeah.
00:20:33.43\00:20:35.20
And that's so,
00:20:35.23\00:20:36.56
that's so important in
our relationship today.
00:20:36.60\00:20:38.43
Arthur, let's talk
about some of the things
00:20:38.47\00:20:40.50
they were
dealing with, you know,
00:20:40.54\00:20:42.14
transition in employment,
her health issues with lupus
00:20:42.17\00:20:46.78
and just being
helpful around the house
00:20:46.81\00:20:48.64
because, you know,
being able to get husbands
00:20:48.68\00:20:53.05
to clean the house
and getting them involved.
00:20:53.08\00:20:55.78
I don't know about
you viewing audience
00:20:55.82\00:20:57.82
its difficult to get
Arthur to pick up a broom.
00:20:57.85\00:20:59.75
I tell you, all right.
00:20:59.79\00:21:01.19
You have to go there.
00:21:01.22\00:21:02.56
I just had to go
there, all right.
00:21:02.59\00:21:04.13
But how do we
begin to help our couples
00:21:04.16\00:21:07.76
and understanding the stressors
even in our loving marriage.
00:21:07.80\00:21:10.50
Where is the misconnections?
00:21:10.53\00:21:11.87
Well, I think one of the things
that was really important is
00:21:11.90\00:21:14.00
Jeff and Pam recognized that.
00:21:14.04\00:21:16.10
It was absolutely necessary
00:21:16.14\00:21:18.17
that they develop
their relationship
00:21:18.21\00:21:19.84
with the Lord.
00:21:19.87\00:21:21.21
You know, through
prayer they felt motivated
00:21:21.24\00:21:24.21
that they would get through
00:21:24.25\00:21:25.58
and Jeff and Pam has
always been at a point
00:21:25.61\00:21:30.32
where they wanted
people to recognize
00:21:30.35\00:21:32.52
that their relationship with God
00:21:32.55\00:21:35.19
is a foundation, you know.
00:21:35.22\00:21:37.39
So that's one
thing that's essential.
00:21:37.43\00:21:39.79
And the Bible says
"pray without ceasing."
00:21:39.83\00:21:42.50
Absolutely. All right.
00:21:42.53\00:21:43.97
So prayer is our first solution.
00:21:44.00\00:21:45.80
We've got to include God
in every step of the way.
00:21:45.83\00:21:48.70
And I want to ask the question,
00:21:48.74\00:21:50.41
do you start your day
with prayer as a couple?
00:21:50.44\00:21:53.11
Do you call each
other throughout the day,
00:21:53.14\00:21:55.54
even texting a
prayer and then coming home
00:21:55.58\00:21:58.75
having family worship together
and having prayer together?
00:21:58.78\00:22:02.85
Because sometimes we
get, you know, get distracted
00:22:02.88\00:22:05.19
but we cannot
forget about the Lord.
00:22:05.22\00:22:07.66
Number two, what can we do?
00:22:07.69\00:22:09.16
I think you
really have to recognize
00:22:09.19\00:22:12.03
what the problem
really is, you know.
00:22:12.06\00:22:14.40
Because you can't
address the problem
00:22:14.43\00:22:15.76
you don't know what it is.
00:22:15.80\00:22:17.13
You don't know
what the problem is
00:22:17.17\00:22:18.50
and then we are talking
about spinning your wills.
00:22:18.53\00:22:21.37
So its really
important that you understand,
00:22:21.40\00:22:23.64
if you have a
lack of communication,
00:22:23.67\00:22:25.64
if there are some issues
that need to be discussed
00:22:25.67\00:22:28.24
but unfortunately there is anger
00:22:28.28\00:22:30.01
that's preventing you
00:22:30.05\00:22:31.38
from really
getting to those issues
00:22:31.41\00:22:33.15
then once again you need to have
00:22:33.18\00:22:35.75
some understanding of
how to accomplish that goal.
00:22:35.78\00:22:39.12
You know, the Bible
says in 2 Chronicles 7:14,
00:22:39.15\00:22:43.32
"If my people,
would humble themselves
00:22:43.36\00:22:45.16
and pray and seek my face."
00:22:45.19\00:22:48.10
Now that's
something that Jeff did.
00:22:48.13\00:22:50.10
He humbled
himself to help his wife
00:22:50.13\00:22:52.67
even around the
house with the chores.
00:22:52.70\00:22:55.00
And we always say the
three issues of marriage is
00:22:55.04\00:22:58.77
communication,
finance and responsibilities
00:22:58.81\00:23:02.54
within the household, all right.
00:23:02.58\00:23:05.15
And he humbled
himself to help her.
00:23:05.18\00:23:06.82
But Jeff it was not
difficult for him, you know.
00:23:06.85\00:23:10.69
And why wasn't it
difficult for him?
00:23:10.72\00:23:12.65
Is because of his personality.
00:23:12.69\00:23:14.82
Jeff was committed
and that's a third thing
00:23:14.86\00:23:18.03
that needs to be
brought out, commitment.
00:23:18.06\00:23:20.20
Commitment.
00:23:20.23\00:23:21.56
He needs to
really recognize a person
00:23:21.60\00:23:24.83
that's having some
negative experience
00:23:24.87\00:23:28.00
they must understand
00:23:28.04\00:23:29.37
that commitment is
going to be very important.
00:23:29.40\00:23:32.24
And then you need to take action
00:23:32.27\00:23:34.74
and whatever is required for you
00:23:34.78\00:23:36.44
to improve the situation.
00:23:36.48\00:23:38.65
Okay, so I can
recognize what the problem is
00:23:38.68\00:23:41.95
but at the same time
if I don't move forward
00:23:41.98\00:23:44.42
because the Bible said,
"Faith is dead without works."
00:23:44.45\00:23:47.02
So if I'm not moving
forward is just doing nothing.
00:23:47.06\00:23:50.93
I'm not making any progress.
00:23:50.96\00:23:52.59
So now I take
then say action steps.
00:23:52.63\00:23:54.33
You have to understand,
I have to do something.
00:23:54.36\00:23:57.57
And unfortunately a lot of times
00:23:57.60\00:24:00.70
when people are going through
some real difficult times
00:24:00.74\00:24:03.34
in their relationship
00:24:03.37\00:24:04.97
then they fail to really exhibit
00:24:05.01\00:24:07.64
some method of change, you know.
00:24:07.68\00:24:10.91
I need to change my behavior
00:24:10.95\00:24:13.01
and they become
stagnant in a relationship.
00:24:13.05\00:24:15.45
So they become a changed agent.
00:24:15.48\00:24:17.22
Yes. All right.
00:24:17.25\00:24:18.59
Making sure that I'm
responsible for this.
00:24:18.62\00:24:20.96
I've got to hold
myself accountable.
00:24:20.99\00:24:22.32
Most important.
00:24:22.36\00:24:23.69
So accountability can definitely
00:24:23.73\00:24:25.49
be a solution holding myself.
00:24:25.53\00:24:26.86
You know, and not
just demonstrate silence
00:24:26.90\00:24:30.67
and hoping that
the issue will go away.
00:24:30.70\00:24:33.44
If I don't really address,
I don't pay any attention
00:24:33.47\00:24:36.57
just go and anticipate,
this won't go away but its not.
00:24:36.60\00:24:39.47
And we just
walking past each other
00:24:39.51\00:24:41.21
and not addressing the issues
00:24:41.24\00:24:43.08
and now we are no
longer husband and wife,
00:24:43.11\00:24:44.91
husband and wife
00:24:44.95\00:24:46.28
but we are
strangers living together.
00:24:46.31\00:24:47.65
Well, see Pam and
Jeff they continue
00:24:47.68\00:24:50.69
to show their
commitment towards each other.
00:24:50.72\00:24:52.92
They willing to work on it.
00:24:52.95\00:24:54.69
Though and don't
forget about their children.
00:24:54.72\00:24:56.49
You know, even now you could see
00:24:56.52\00:24:58.43
how their commitment,
00:24:58.46\00:25:00.06
their spirit, their relationship
00:25:00.10\00:25:02.26
is even brought out in a
way that they have children.
00:25:02.30\00:25:05.47
And they have grandchildren.
00:25:05.50\00:25:06.84
And they have grandchildren
to present themselves.
00:25:06.87\00:25:08.60
Oh, definitely.
00:25:08.64\00:25:09.97
I think that crucial
aspect or part of their relation
00:25:10.01\00:25:14.08
they love each other.
00:25:14.11\00:25:15.64
The love is genuine.
00:25:15.68\00:25:17.28
And they understand
what family really means.
00:25:17.31\00:25:19.95
You know, what is
the essence of family?
00:25:19.98\00:25:22.35
How do we really,
really demonstrate that?
00:25:22.38\00:25:25.35
And that's what we are.
00:25:25.39\00:25:26.92
We need to
recognize that family.
00:25:26.96\00:25:29.92
Without family there is nothing.
00:25:29.96\00:25:31.49
So support. Absolutely.
00:25:31.53\00:25:32.89
You need to be a
support to each other.
00:25:32.93\00:25:34.80
I think in marriage
and being married to you,
00:25:34.83\00:25:36.56
Arthur, being
able to show support,
00:25:36.60\00:25:39.10
showing understanding,
showing love, sensitivity.
00:25:39.13\00:25:42.37
Why is sensitivity so important
00:25:42.40\00:25:44.21
or can be a crucial
solution in marriage?
00:25:44.24\00:25:46.51
The way you say things,
00:25:46.54\00:25:48.01
the way you use
your nonverbal cues
00:25:48.04\00:25:52.25
is really important
00:25:52.28\00:25:53.62
because even
though if you don't speak
00:25:53.65\00:25:56.12
but if you demonstrate
anger by rolling your eyes
00:25:56.15\00:26:00.59
or turning away
or not giving contact
00:26:00.62\00:26:04.46
in a respectful manner.
00:26:04.49\00:26:06.53
Then that can be irritating.
00:26:06.56\00:26:08.30
You know, its like
I'm trying to talk to you
00:26:08.33\00:26:10.20
and you're
trying to read something
00:26:10.23\00:26:11.63
or you're reading newspaper
00:26:11.67\00:26:13.07
and you are not even giving
me the eye contact that I need.
00:26:13.10\00:26:16.20
Eye contact lets
me know that you care,
00:26:16.24\00:26:18.27
you're concerned
and you're in tuned.
00:26:18.31\00:26:20.78
I think being in
tuned with your spouse
00:26:20.81\00:26:23.98
and in your marriage is crucial
00:26:24.01\00:26:25.85
and being able to relate to them
00:26:25.88\00:26:27.62
and being able to understand
how they are proceeding.
00:26:27.65\00:26:30.22
So, you know, be
mindful of your tone,
00:26:30.25\00:26:33.09
take it down a
notch, be mindful.
00:26:33.12\00:26:35.66
Listening is crucial in
a healthy, loving marriage.
00:26:35.69\00:26:39.76
And I think that
understanding how to listen,
00:26:39.79\00:26:42.73
everyone doesn't
know how to listen.
00:26:42.76\00:26:44.23
Listening along with once
again the ability to recognize
00:26:44.27\00:26:49.24
where the problem exists
00:26:49.27\00:26:51.61
and making a commitment
to change the problem.
00:26:51.64\00:26:55.24
Say it to yourself,
00:26:55.28\00:26:56.61
"I'm going to make a difference.
00:26:56.64\00:26:58.05
I'm not going to be the same."
00:26:58.08\00:27:00.35
And that means that
you are taking a action.
00:27:00.38\00:27:03.69
You want to do
something different.
00:27:03.72\00:27:05.19
You want to
improve the situation
00:27:05.22\00:27:06.92
and so you are not just
gonna let something continuing
00:27:06.96\00:27:10.69
to hover over your relationship
00:27:10.73\00:27:12.33
and prevent you from
having a good marriage.
00:27:12.36\00:27:15.16
Having a good marriage.
00:27:15.20\00:27:16.60
Well, listen I like
that and I just hope and pray
00:27:16.63\00:27:19.43
that these
solutions will help you.
00:27:19.47\00:27:21.64
I'm Dr. Kim
Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:27:21.67\00:27:24.54
And thank you for
joining us on Making It Work.
00:27:24.57\00:27:27.41
God bless.
00:27:27.44\00:27:28.78