Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to Making it Work.
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You know, Arthur
when you think about
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in today's society
being single, being celibate,
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being a woman, being a pastor.
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What comes to
mind? A lot of work.
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What do you mean?
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Well, basically you're covering
so many different areas.
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And when we break it down,
we're talking about a pastor
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being single and being female,
that's a lot of discipline.
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Because I would
think that a female pastor
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would have to go
through some difficulties
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as far as people respecting her
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and looking at
her as a shepherd.
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So you're saying the challenges
that are presented to her
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and the things
that she has to face,
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but in our
society, we have pastors
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who have fallen from grace.
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Absolutely. You
know, the adultery.
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The marriages and
issues the Church,
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the stealing, theft,
but there's a lot of things.
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You're right, the
eyes are on the shepherd.
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Absolutely. And
it's so important.
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Well, we have a very
special guest for you today.
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And I can call her my
friend, my dear friend.
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But she's the only female pastor
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in the Lake Region Conference
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at the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Once again, the
Lake Region Conference
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is one of the conferences
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within the North
American division
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of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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We would like to
welcome Pastor Tricia Wynn.
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Welcome to Making it
Work. Well, thank you.
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I'm very happy to be here.
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Oh, we are excited. My goodness.
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Well, listen, we want
to hear the whole story.
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How it all began
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and what brought
you to Lake Region?
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Tell our viewers your
testimony, your story.
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Well, my story can
be summarized by saying,
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hearing, praying,
seeking and then following.
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You know, you ask
me what's my story,
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how did I end up
where I am right now.
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And I think that summarizes it.
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I didn't have a
dream of becoming a pastor.
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I didn't think, you
know, I would ever be a pastor.
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I had my own
intentions for my life,
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because it's my life,
right? Yeah, that's right.
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I was going to do
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what I needed
to do with my life.
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I was trained, I was raised
to get a profession or a trade,
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do well in
school, study very hard
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so that you have options,
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so you'll be able
to sustain yourself.
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Be financially stable.
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And so I went
into life thinking,
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"Okay, let me do my best
and do what I needed to do."
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I hear the common theme,
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so I went to-- I did
my best in high school.
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Did very well,
honor roll, you know,
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student body president,
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and I could go into
any university I wanted to.
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But then, through
a series of events
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and divine intervention,
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God led me to go to
Andrew's University.
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But when I went, I went
to study physical therapy.
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What? Yeah, of course.
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Because I wanted a profession
that was in the health field
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and that would
give me the flexibility
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to have a family one day.
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Okay. All right. All right.
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And so off I went
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'cause, you know,
this is my dream after all.
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While I was in Andrew's I
was involved with the BSCF,
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that's the Black
Student Christian Form.
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I was religious vice
in my sophomore year.
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And put a tent on
campus, had a great tent
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evangelistic meeting
with a couple very well--
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pastors are doing very well
right now in their ministries.
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And I didn't know what
God had in mind for me.
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You know, got accepted in
the physical therapy program.
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Did that, enjoyed it.
Became class chaplain.
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Didn't know what
God had in mind for me.
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Graduated, did very well.
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In physical
therapy? Yeah, I did.
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I did very well,
undergrad summa cum laude,
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graduated very well, great
GPA physical therapy program.
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Passed my boards both
into practice in Michigan
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and back in
Canada where I'm from,
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and ended up going
back home to Canada
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so that I could
be with my family.
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Yes.
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I'd been away from them for,
you know, it was five years.
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Very close-knit
family, I'm the youngest.
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I wanted to be with my family.
So I went back, practice.
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Within the first
year of practicing,
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I hear God calling
me to something else.
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I couldn't believe it.
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One morning, I
would go to the chapel
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of the hospital I
worked in, in the morning
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and present my
patients before the Lord.
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And one morning I
went in, and I as entered,
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I felt the deep
impression from the Lord,
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"This isn't it." I
could have fell on the floor.
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I got upset, I said,
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"Well, I just spent
five years in school
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and if this isn't it,
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You're gonna have
to tell me what it is,
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because I'm not asking."
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And I walked out of there.
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Can you believe that?
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Deep down
inside, I knew it wasn't.
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And God was calling
me to something else.
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And so I waited.
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In less than a year,
God made it plain to me
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that He was calling me
into theology, study theology.
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Oh, what did that mean?
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So I deepened my, you
know, my devotional experience.
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I went online, got
some online courses.
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Anyway, that wasn't it.
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Became personal
ministries leaders at my church.
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I said, "There you
go, Lord, I'm serving you.
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That's what you
wanted, right?" That wasn't it.
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Ended up back at
Andrew's University,
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this time in the seminary.
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When I got there,
I had so much peace.
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I couldn't understand it.
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But this time, I said,
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"Okay, Lord, you want
me to go back to school,
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you're going to
have to pay for it."
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All right. Can you imagine that?
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I said, "There you go,
Lord, I'm not taking a loan.
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You take care of it."
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And I want you
to know that He did.
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He did. He did.
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You didn't take a loan?
Nope. He took care of it.
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And, you know,
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the Lord just led
and gave me peace.
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But I wasn't going to
the seminary to be a pastor.
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Okay. Can you imagine that?
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No, I went to just
be obedient, to study.
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Didn't have an
idea what God was doing.
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Mind you, in those years
of undergrad, in those years,
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even while I was
working in physical therapy,
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I was preaching.
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I was doing a lot of that.
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When I went back to Toronto,
I was preaching all over.
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Okay.
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And went back to the seminary
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and I said, "Well, I don't know,
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I'm not gonna soon that
I'm here to be a pastor.
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I'll just study
and see what happens"
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I graduated in '08, 2008.
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Yes, yes. And I waited.
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I said I'm not gonna go
back to Toronto like I did
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when I finished
physical therapy.
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I wanted to see what
God was saying this time.
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And so I said, "Lord,
until You tell me what to do,
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I'm just gonna stay right here."
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I was blessed to be able to work
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in physical therapy in Michigan,
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at an awesome clinical.
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Okay.
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The best clinic in
southwest Michigan, in fact.
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And how I got that
job is a testimony.
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I continued to work, and
then the Lord impressed me.
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There was a an
opportunity to help teach
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in the physical therapy program.
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Yes, yes.
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The Lord
impressed me to take it.
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I was confused.
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I said, "I'm here
with the seminary,
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what do want me-- you know,
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this doesn't seem like we're
going in the same direction."
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Right, right.
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And I took it.
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And by the end of the semester,
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the last class
before their final exam,
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by this time I knew
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that the Lord was
calling me to pastoral ministry.
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Really? By that time I knew.
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And 20 minutes
before that last class,
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I got a call from
Elder Jerome Davis
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from the Lake
Regional Conference
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asking me to
sit for an interview
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to be a pastor.
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He made it very clear.
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Pastor?
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I said I'd go.
It's been a journey.
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And if you'd
ask me 10 years ago,
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"Do you see
yourself as a pastor?"
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I'd laugh. I
think, no, absolutely not.
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But I'm
blessed. But I'm blessed.
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And what was your first church?
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Shiloh. Shiloh?
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Working as an associate
to Pastor Leeroy Coleman.
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Okay. And now
you're pasturing where?
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Now I'm
pasturing in Indianapolis
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at the
Tabernacle of Hope Church.
00:08:53.93\00:08:56.06
And I have the
Philadelphia Church in Muncie,
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which is 60 miles away.
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Wow, you know so one
Sabbath you'll be at one church
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and then you'll alternate?
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Yeah, it varies a
based on the needs.
00:09:06.47\00:09:08.24
Okay. Varies based on the needs.
00:09:08.28\00:09:10.55
What did your family say?
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When? Now or before.
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And you are going through
this, when God was calling you.
00:09:15.78\00:09:18.02
Well, it was
definitely a tug of war.
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I got to a patch of grey here,
going through this experience.
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It popped up.
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They-- My mom was quiet.
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She didn't say much.
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She knew God was leading
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and she was very
careful not to speak against
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what the Holy
Spirit could be saying.
00:09:36.30\00:09:38.57
My dad tried to hold his words,
00:09:38.61\00:09:42.11
but eventually
was able to express.
00:09:42.14\00:09:46.48
"Could you wait a little longer?
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You just started
working physical therapy.
00:09:47.88\00:09:49.22
Work five years first,
you know, work five years.
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Save some more money,
you know this is a good job."
00:09:52.55\00:09:56.32
You know, but they saw
what God was doing in my life.
00:09:56.36\00:10:00.40
They thought,
wow, what's going on?
00:10:00.43\00:10:01.80
And, you know, she
just up and left and went.
00:10:01.83\00:10:07.37
But they watched.
00:10:07.40\00:10:10.41
They watched,
00:10:10.44\00:10:12.07
and they're my
number one supporters.
00:10:12.11\00:10:14.78
My dad never missed a sermon
00:10:14.81\00:10:16.64
I preached in the Toronto
area when I was living there.
00:10:16.68\00:10:20.18
And they were so happy.
00:10:20.22\00:10:22.18
And they're so proud,
and they're so excited.
00:10:22.22\00:10:24.59
Yeah.
00:10:24.62\00:10:25.95
Now, where is your
dad and your mom from?
00:10:25.99\00:10:27.99
They are from Jamaica.
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Okay.
00:10:29.39\00:10:30.73
Jamaica.
00:10:30.76\00:10:32.09
Look at you. Are
you from Jamaica?
00:10:32.13\00:10:33.90
I'm from Canada, I was
born and raised in Canada.
00:10:33.93\00:10:36.67
First
generation? First generation.
00:10:36.70\00:10:38.20
Okay, okay. Excellent.
00:10:38.23\00:10:39.80
So may hear a lot
of different accents.
00:10:39.83\00:10:43.07
So, Wynn, let me you a question.
00:10:43.10\00:10:44.47
The challenges
that being a pastor,
00:10:44.51\00:10:47.48
being a woman, a
beautiful woman of God.
00:10:47.51\00:10:49.88
Thank you. You
know, and being single.
00:10:49.91\00:10:53.28
What are the
challenges are women
00:10:53.31\00:10:55.45
and men facing
today to be celibate?
00:10:55.48\00:10:58.42
Well, you're
asking a loaded question.
00:10:58.45\00:11:00.46
I know. There's a
lot to the question.
00:11:00.49\00:11:02.89
You're asking
what are the challenges
00:11:02.92\00:11:04.59
with being a pastor?
00:11:04.63\00:11:05.99
What are the challenges
with being a single pastor?
00:11:06.03\00:11:08.26
What are the challenges
being a single, celibate pastor?
00:11:08.30\00:11:10.87
How about a pastor
trying to live righteously?
00:11:10.90\00:11:12.40
Come on, now. Thank you, Lord.
00:11:12.43\00:11:15.87
Amen.
00:11:15.90\00:11:17.77
You know, and I think we
had a little conversation
00:11:17.81\00:11:20.78
about this several months ago.
00:11:20.81\00:11:22.61
Yes, we did.
00:11:22.64\00:11:24.31
Because we talked about
the needs, the emotional
00:11:24.35\00:11:27.58
and social needs that a
pack, any individual has
00:11:27.62\00:11:31.45
that must be met
in a healthy way.
00:11:31.49\00:11:33.59
Healthy way. In a healthy way.
00:11:33.62\00:11:35.36
And it's very
important to acknowledge it
00:11:35.39\00:11:36.96
and not repress
it, and not deny it.
00:11:36.99\00:11:40.00
And so one, you
are either challenged
00:11:40.03\00:11:43.67
to make sure you have
a good social support,
00:11:43.70\00:11:48.07
a genuine social support
00:11:48.10\00:11:49.57
with people who
are in your corner.
00:11:49.60\00:11:51.37
Yes.
00:11:51.41\00:11:52.74
Who love you for you,
and who are able to call you
00:11:52.77\00:11:54.68
by your first
name and see you as,
00:11:54.71\00:11:56.68
or see me as Tricia.
00:11:56.71\00:11:58.48
Yes. And know me as Tricia.
00:11:58.51\00:12:00.98
Yes. And love me for Tricia.
00:12:01.02\00:12:03.79
That's right, that's right.
00:12:03.82\00:12:05.99
And so when a single pastor
00:12:06.02\00:12:08.52
or individual is
placed in a position
00:12:08.56\00:12:11.89
where they don't
have a social support.
00:12:11.93\00:12:14.06
That can be a challenge. Okay.
00:12:14.10\00:12:16.46
Do you know
anyone in Indianapolis?
00:12:16.50\00:12:17.97
No.
00:12:18.00\00:12:19.33
Oh, my goodness. No.
00:12:19.37\00:12:21.50
And so that I think
00:12:21.54\00:12:22.97
was the greatest
challenge for me.
00:12:23.00\00:12:24.97
You know, people say,
00:12:25.01\00:12:26.34
"What's the greatest
challenge of being a pastor?
00:12:26.37\00:12:27.98
Is it preparing the sermon?
00:12:28.01\00:12:29.34
Is it ministering to the
sick? Is it doing funerals?
00:12:29.38\00:12:32.48
You know, is it
counseling at midnight hours?
00:12:32.51\00:12:35.08
Is it dealing with
suicide attempts, you know.
00:12:35.12\00:12:37.09
Is it dealing with, you
know, bickering, complaining?"
00:12:37.12\00:12:40.39
No, no, no and no.
00:12:40.42\00:12:42.09
The greatest challenge for me,
00:12:42.12\00:12:44.59
for me was living in a situation
00:12:44.63\00:12:49.56
where I had no
established social support.
00:12:49.60\00:12:53.77
That was the greatest thing.
That was the greatest thing.
00:12:53.80\00:12:56.77
And so first of all,
00:12:56.81\00:12:59.07
acknowledging that
this is a genuine need
00:12:59.11\00:13:02.58
that I have as a
person, and it's a valid need.
00:13:02.61\00:13:07.18
Affirming that and then
asking God to help me identify
00:13:07.22\00:13:11.49
how are we gonna fix this, Lord?
00:13:11.52\00:13:13.89
How am I gonna
make friends here?
00:13:13.92\00:13:17.69
Now, people say,
"Well, you're in the church."
00:13:17.73\00:13:19.56
I think the church is
an awesome opportunity
00:13:19.59\00:13:22.86
for people to meet
their social needs.
00:13:22.90\00:13:24.87
Normally when I was on
the other side the pulpit,
00:13:24.90\00:13:26.67
that was a given.
00:13:26.70\00:13:28.57
But now I'm the pastor,
00:13:28.60\00:13:29.94
so in order to maintain
objectivity, impartiality,
00:13:29.97\00:13:34.68
it requires a certain boundary.
00:13:34.71\00:13:38.68
And so where is my--
where is my Friendship circle.
00:13:38.71\00:13:40.88
Come on now, come on.
00:13:40.92\00:13:42.25
Where is my support network?
00:13:42.28\00:13:43.99
Where are those
people who are in my corner
00:13:44.02\00:13:45.69
and know me as Tricia
and call me by my first name?
00:13:45.72\00:13:50.59
That is the greatest challenge.
00:13:50.63\00:13:51.96
And my heart goes out, my
colleagues and my friends,
00:13:51.99\00:13:55.76
those who went to school with--
00:13:55.80\00:13:58.80
who find themselves
in a similar situation,
00:13:58.83\00:14:01.77
my heart goes out.
00:14:01.80\00:14:03.14
I'm blessed, I'm in Indy.
You know, it's a little city.
00:14:03.17\00:14:08.38
And, but I have colleagues,
00:14:08.41\00:14:10.68
I have friends who
are in more remote areas.
00:14:10.71\00:14:14.15
Yes. And I fear for them.
00:14:14.18\00:14:17.39
And I suppose
those who are listening
00:14:17.42\00:14:20.26
and who are in a
position of authority
00:14:20.29\00:14:22.76
and a position
of decision-making
00:14:22.79\00:14:24.13
where this is
concerned can understand
00:14:24.16\00:14:26.36
that it's a
genuine need and a concern.
00:14:26.39\00:14:29.26
I fear for them.
00:14:29.30\00:14:31.67
I fear. Yeah.
00:14:31.70\00:14:34.87
Because oftentimes,
00:14:34.90\00:14:36.81
that social need is invalidated.
00:14:36.84\00:14:39.97
It's spiritualized
and people are told,
00:14:40.01\00:14:43.38
"Well, you can
deal with it, pray.
00:14:43.41\00:14:47.25
God can fix it.
He's there with you."
00:14:47.28\00:14:48.68
Yeah, He's there with
you and he's there for you,
00:14:48.72\00:14:50.69
but He made us as social beings.
00:14:50.72\00:14:52.89
And any individual
going into a situation
00:14:52.92\00:14:57.06
where they don't have an
established social support,
00:14:57.09\00:14:59.56
we have to do our
best to help them.
00:14:59.59\00:15:04.00
It's a need and, you know,
00:15:04.03\00:15:05.37
we talk about
ministers who have fallen.
00:15:05.40\00:15:07.67
Yes. I call them
falling soldiers.
00:15:07.70\00:15:10.24
Yes.
00:15:10.27\00:15:11.61
And I think there are a
lot of different reasons
00:15:11.64\00:15:13.64
why this happens.
00:15:13.68\00:15:15.01
Of course, of
course. I'm no judge.
00:15:15.04\00:15:16.38
That's right, that's right.
00:15:16.41\00:15:17.75
But I believe one thing
00:15:17.78\00:15:19.88
we can do to help
prevent it is to make sure
00:15:19.91\00:15:22.08
there's a healthy social
support network in place.
00:15:22.12\00:15:25.09
But wouldn't that also require,
say, the Conference itself
00:15:25.12\00:15:31.59
to make sure that they intervene
00:15:31.63\00:15:34.56
on a regular basis
or they communicate
00:15:34.60\00:15:37.20
to find out what your status is
00:15:37.23\00:15:40.17
and how you are doing
00:15:40.20\00:15:42.37
while you are going
through this process?
00:15:42.40\00:15:44.37
How you were doing,
00:15:44.41\00:15:45.77
I think that's a
good question to ask.
00:15:45.81\00:15:48.68
I sympathize with the Conference
00:15:48.71\00:15:50.05
because they have such--
00:15:50.08\00:15:51.41
It's a heavy responsibility,
those in the administration.
00:15:51.45\00:15:54.48
They have many staff,
00:15:54.52\00:15:56.89
a lot of pastors
with different needs.
00:15:56.92\00:15:59.89
And so, when
they're making a decision
00:15:59.92\00:16:01.79
on where to send someone,
00:16:01.82\00:16:03.36
there's a lot
that weighs into that.
00:16:03.39\00:16:05.89
But I believe
asking "How you're doing?
00:16:05.93\00:16:08.50
How can we help you?
00:16:08.53\00:16:11.97
Is there anything
we can do to help you
00:16:12.00\00:16:14.37
in your transition?"
00:16:14.40\00:16:16.57
I think that would help.
00:16:16.60\00:16:17.97
That's a very valid
question. Thank you, Kim.
00:16:18.01\00:16:20.58
You're very-- you
see, didn't I tell you?
00:16:20.61\00:16:24.18
I try to say focused
00:16:24.21\00:16:25.55
and he just does
something, you know.
00:16:25.58\00:16:27.12
All I said was,
"Thank you, Kim."
00:16:27.15\00:16:28.48
You're welcome, dear, you know.
00:16:28.52\00:16:30.39
So, you know, the next
chapter, marriage, children,
00:16:30.42\00:16:35.09
you know, balancing all of this.
00:16:35.12\00:16:37.16
I wanted it. You want--
00:16:37.19\00:16:38.66
I did. And I still do. Oh, okay.
00:16:38.69\00:16:40.86
I know you looked at
me like, so you know.
00:16:40.90\00:16:42.23
So you've changed,
okay, so you still do.
00:16:42.26\00:16:44.90
I still do. Yes.
00:16:44.93\00:16:46.47
I still do.
00:16:46.50\00:16:47.84
When I made the decision
to go into physical therapy,
00:16:47.87\00:16:50.61
I did it for this reason.
00:16:50.64\00:16:51.97
I said, "It gives me the
flexibility to have a family."
00:16:52.01\00:16:54.84
Yeah, I was considering
being a doctor and all this,
00:16:54.88\00:16:57.98
but I said, no,
physical therapy.
00:16:58.01\00:16:59.58
I can have, you
know, I can work part time.
00:16:59.61\00:17:01.58
I can have my own clinic
00:17:01.62\00:17:03.05
or I don't have to
have my own clinic.
00:17:03.08\00:17:05.19
And now I'm a pastor.
00:17:05.22\00:17:06.65
Who would have thought?
But yes, I still want a family.
00:17:06.69\00:17:09.69
Yes, I still want to be married.
00:17:09.72\00:17:11.46
Any old relationships
or new relationships
00:17:11.49\00:17:14.96
that you may be, I
don't know, talking to?
00:17:15.00\00:17:19.37
You are exploring to see if I'm,
00:17:19.40\00:17:21.60
am I engaged, am I pursuing.
00:17:21.64\00:17:24.87
I'm currently single. Okay.
00:17:24.91\00:17:26.57
Yeah, single and
not dating. Yeah, okay.
00:17:26.61\00:17:28.58
Okay, so therefore,
00:17:28.61\00:17:30.08
now I haven't
gone into this question
00:17:30.11\00:17:31.48
about internet dating,
00:17:31.51\00:17:33.18
but if you are watching
this broadcast, this program
00:17:33.21\00:17:37.82
and you would
like more information,
00:17:37.85\00:17:40.86
see, that's how you
do that, God is able.
00:17:40.89\00:17:43.46
You don't know who is
watching this broadcast.
00:17:43.49\00:17:46.49
He'll be able to
see you and then say,
00:17:46.53\00:17:48.36
you know, and reach out.
00:17:48.40\00:17:49.73
Can he reach out?
Can he reach out for you?
00:17:49.76\00:17:51.10
But please, send a picture.
00:17:51.13\00:17:55.17
And bio, because
we're gonna investigate
00:17:55.20\00:17:57.31
before we pass it on, okay.
00:17:57.34\00:17:59.37
You got to get through us
first, all right, you know.
00:17:59.41\00:18:02.58
So being able to
look at, you know,
00:18:02.61\00:18:06.08
this social network today,
what do you think about that?
00:18:06.11\00:18:09.58
You know, would you consider,
you know, internet dating?
00:18:09.62\00:18:12.75
I'm open, you know.
Oh, you see what she says?
00:18:12.79\00:18:15.09
She's open. Okay, you're funny.
00:18:15.12\00:18:17.96
I'm open.
00:18:17.99\00:18:19.33
I'm realistic in the
fact that a lot of times
00:18:19.36\00:18:23.57
we are not getting out
enough to meet different people.
00:18:23.60\00:18:25.77
Right. That's the truth.
00:18:25.80\00:18:27.20
My preference is to meet someone
00:18:27.24\00:18:31.47
that I kind of
have a knowledge of.
00:18:31.51\00:18:33.71
For example, you know, Dr.
Kim and Mr. Arthur, if you'd--
00:18:33.74\00:18:38.08
You said, "Hey,
I know somebody."
00:18:38.11\00:18:39.55
That I feel comfortable
with because I know, you know,
00:18:39.58\00:18:41.68
you have a background
check on the individual.
00:18:41.72\00:18:43.05
That's right.
00:18:43.08\00:18:44.42
It is a little more,
00:18:44.45\00:18:45.79
you have to be a
little more cautious.
00:18:45.82\00:18:47.49
It's like meeting a
stranger on the road, you know.
00:18:47.52\00:18:49.89
You don't know who
they are. Absolutely.
00:18:49.92\00:18:51.26
You just have to take your time.
00:18:51.29\00:18:52.69
But I'm open. You
got to be realistic.
00:18:52.73\00:18:54.76
You got be realistic, did
you hear that, what pastor said?
00:18:54.80\00:18:58.20
You know. Pastor
is very intelligent.
00:18:58.23\00:19:01.27
And you know what? I
was about to say that.
00:19:01.30\00:19:03.97
See, a lot of times, I mean,
00:19:04.01\00:19:05.77
you have the
whole package, you know.
00:19:05.81\00:19:08.18
You have brains, beauty,
you have the spirituality.
00:19:08.21\00:19:11.58
You walk with
the Lord, you know.
00:19:11.61\00:19:13.38
And you know she's a preacher?
00:19:13.42\00:19:15.38
I know she's a
preacher. I've heard her.
00:19:15.42\00:19:17.02
You can, you--
00:19:17.05\00:19:18.55
I'm gonna tell you,
now you know Dr. Kim.
00:19:18.59\00:19:21.56
But this is a
preacher, one woman of God.
00:19:21.59\00:19:23.79
I got up at 6
a.m. in the morning
00:19:23.83\00:19:26.39
at camp meeting, and
camp meetings are time
00:19:26.43\00:19:29.00
when we all come
together two weeks in June,
00:19:29.03\00:19:31.77
and we come
together to fellowship
00:19:31.80\00:19:33.57
there within the
Lake Region Conference.
00:19:33.60\00:19:35.47
They have camp
meetings all over the world.
00:19:35.50\00:19:37.37
And I wanted to hear
this great woman of God
00:19:37.41\00:19:41.48
and I was not disappointed.
00:19:41.51\00:19:43.24
I followed her all
the way to the cafeteria.
00:19:43.28\00:19:44.88
Yes, I did, because
I wanted to meet her.
00:19:44.91\00:19:46.38
I didn't know, I had
not had the pleasure.
00:19:46.41\00:19:48.88
So, and it truly
has been a blessing.
00:19:48.92\00:19:51.35
But I want to go
back to something.
00:19:51.39\00:19:53.19
You know, when you look at,
00:19:53.22\00:19:55.42
you know, your church
today, what needs are there?
00:19:55.46\00:20:00.00
And do people receive
your wisdom, your suggestion,
00:20:00.03\00:20:03.97
your leadership,
being a young woman?
00:20:04.00\00:20:06.77
Well, needs are there, you know.
00:20:06.80\00:20:08.14
I think the church,
00:20:08.17\00:20:09.50
at least the
church that I'm pasturing,
00:20:09.54\00:20:10.87
are looking for, they
are open for new ideas.
00:20:10.91\00:20:14.08
They are open for
a fresh perspective.
00:20:14.11\00:20:16.68
They want to grow.
They want to be relevant.
00:20:16.71\00:20:20.08
And so when I look at my
church and identify the needs,
00:20:20.12\00:20:23.59
I always say this,
the needs in the church
00:20:23.62\00:20:25.89
are synonyms with the
needs in the world right now.
00:20:25.92\00:20:29.09
What's going on in the
world and in our society,
00:20:29.12\00:20:32.69
you can pick it, you know,
00:20:32.73\00:20:34.13
just take a sampling
and throw it in your church.
00:20:34.16\00:20:36.30
That's what's going
on, everything there.
00:20:36.33\00:20:38.57
And so, yes, you have,
you have a lot of needs--
00:20:38.60\00:20:44.37
Ranging from dealing with,
00:20:44.41\00:20:49.18
you know, the
teenager issues where,
00:20:49.21\00:20:51.45
you know, people,
they are experimenting
00:20:51.48\00:20:52.88
with their sexuality.
00:20:52.91\00:20:54.38
They are pushing the boundaries,
00:20:54.42\00:20:56.48
is what's going on there.
00:20:56.52\00:20:57.95
Dealing with homes,
marriage and family issues,
00:20:57.99\00:21:02.86
what's going with
the relationships.
00:21:02.89\00:21:04.23
You see, at church,
people are very good at smiling
00:21:04.26\00:21:07.56
and putting on
that Sabbath grin.
00:21:07.60\00:21:09.76
Oh, yes.
00:21:09.80\00:21:11.13
You know, that church
grin, everything is going on,
00:21:11.17\00:21:13.20
and they're very
active and very busy.
00:21:13.23\00:21:15.17
I'm like, "How is
everything going with you?
00:21:15.20\00:21:17.87
How is your spouse?" You know.
00:21:17.91\00:21:22.28
And they are really
open to fresh ideas.
00:21:22.31\00:21:24.58
And so in terms of them
being open to new ideas,
00:21:24.61\00:21:26.28
I'm blessed
with my congregation.
00:21:26.31\00:21:28.78
Everywhere I've
gone, be it Shiloh,
00:21:28.82\00:21:30.89
Tabernacle of Hope or
my Philadelphia Church
00:21:30.92\00:21:33.69
in Muncie,
Indiana, they are open.
00:21:33.72\00:21:35.89
This is that, "Okay,
well, we can give it a try.
00:21:35.92\00:21:38.36
Let's give it a try.
Let's give it a try."
00:21:38.39\00:21:40.36
And so, that's been a blessing.
00:21:40.40\00:21:44.07
You know, with youth, I
definitely, I definitely feel
00:21:44.10\00:21:48.97
that probably is your
major challenge, you know.
00:21:49.00\00:21:53.27
Because we are always saying
that we need to get more youth
00:21:53.31\00:21:57.18
into the church, you know.
00:21:57.21\00:21:58.88
We want our church to thrive
00:21:58.91\00:22:01.38
and that one way
of that happening
00:22:01.42\00:22:03.89
is to have our young people
00:22:03.92\00:22:05.49
be involved into the
different ministries.
00:22:05.52\00:22:09.29
How are they
responding to you, you know,
00:22:09.32\00:22:12.59
when you are not
much older than they are?
00:22:12.63\00:22:15.00
Thank you, Would you
like to be my friend forever?
00:22:15.03\00:22:17.97
You knew what to say. I know.
00:22:18.00\00:22:19.87
I got you, didn't I, Baby. What?
00:22:19.90\00:22:23.41
Pastor, thank you.
00:22:23.44\00:22:25.47
But in terms of the youth
00:22:25.51\00:22:26.88
and how they're
responding to me,
00:22:26.91\00:22:28.48
we have a very good dialogue.
00:22:28.51\00:22:29.84
Okay.
00:22:29.88\00:22:31.21
You see, they are very familiar
00:22:31.25\00:22:32.58
with the
mandatory reporting laws
00:22:32.61\00:22:37.39
and so they are open with me
00:22:37.42\00:22:38.75
as far as they feel they can be.
00:22:38.79\00:22:43.66
They write to me. Okay.
00:22:43.69\00:22:47.76
I can pull them aside
and say "How're you doing?"
00:22:47.80\00:22:50.57
And they'll be
very honest with me.
00:22:50.60\00:22:54.07
And sometimes
they don't have to say
00:22:54.10\00:22:55.90
very much but I know.
00:22:55.94\00:22:59.17
And I had them
over once to my place.
00:22:59.21\00:23:03.98
I have a pool
in, where I live in.
00:23:04.01\00:23:06.48
We had a pool
party and I barbequed.
00:23:06.51\00:23:07.88
I was just in my cap in my head
00:23:07.92\00:23:10.52
and my barbeque tongs,
and I was just one of them.
00:23:10.55\00:23:13.09
They loved it so much.
00:23:13.12\00:23:14.56
And they asked,
"When is the next time?
00:23:14.59\00:23:16.69
Can we come over
again, can we do that again?"
00:23:16.73\00:23:18.06
I said, absolutely.
00:23:18.09\00:23:19.43
I said, when you guys,
whenever they are doing
00:23:19.46\00:23:21.36
a social outing,
I want to be there.
00:23:21.40\00:23:23.16
And so I asked my youth leaders
00:23:23.20\00:23:24.87
to make sure that they tell me.
00:23:24.90\00:23:27.07
I'm not doing it
because I feel obligated.
00:23:27.10\00:23:30.37
I do 'cause I want to. Right.
00:23:30.41\00:23:31.74
I want to be around them.
I want to hang out with them.
00:23:31.77\00:23:34.38
And I'm blessed that
they feel they can come to me.
00:23:34.41\00:23:37.08
But they know that they
can only come as just near.
00:23:37.11\00:23:39.58
They know that if they
tell me certain things,
00:23:39.61\00:23:43.18
I have to report.
00:23:43.22\00:23:45.15
And I know that the young people
00:23:45.19\00:23:46.52
are pushing the limits.
00:23:46.55\00:23:50.79
But I also know that they
listen to me when I preach.
00:23:50.83\00:23:52.89
I know they do.
00:23:52.93\00:23:54.56
Because they are
reciting to me what was said.
00:23:54.60\00:23:57.17
That's good.
00:23:57.20\00:23:58.53
In the AY Program the other day,
00:23:58.57\00:24:00.37
the young people put it on,
00:24:00.40\00:24:01.74
and one of the questions
was what the sermon title was.
00:24:01.77\00:24:05.17
And my young people knew
during our evangelistic series,
00:24:05.21\00:24:09.88
during the quiz time, it
was one of my young people
00:24:09.91\00:24:13.28
that got all the answers right.
00:24:13.31\00:24:15.58
Really? Wow.
00:24:15.62\00:24:16.95
And I think that youthfulness
helps in terms of us
00:24:16.99\00:24:21.09
being able to
relate to each other.
00:24:21.12\00:24:22.49
Yes.
00:24:22.52\00:24:23.86
And I love them. I love them.
00:24:23.89\00:24:25.26
I think another thing
that works to your advantage,
00:24:25.29\00:24:28.50
as far as being at
Tabernacle of Hope,
00:24:28.53\00:24:31.97
is the fact the founder
of the church was female.
00:24:32.00\00:24:35.90
Absolutely.
00:24:35.94\00:24:37.61
And they have such a
love for Pastor Judy.
00:24:37.64\00:24:41.28
Oh, yes.
00:24:41.31\00:24:42.64
Pastor Judy Crawford,
and they are very open
00:24:42.68\00:24:44.11
to female leadership.
00:24:44.15\00:24:45.48
And we have
strong female leaders
00:24:45.51\00:24:47.28
and elders at that church.
00:24:47.32\00:24:48.78
That's right. Yes, you do.
00:24:48.82\00:24:50.19
We've had the
privilege of being there
00:24:50.22\00:24:52.15
with Pastor Tricia,
00:24:52.19\00:24:53.52
and she was at the
Philadelphia Church.
00:24:53.56\00:24:56.22
And we were there that morning,
00:24:56.26\00:24:57.99
but she made sure
00:24:58.03\00:24:59.36
she came back for that
AY Program, welcomed us
00:24:59.39\00:25:02.60
and it was just
a wonderful time.
00:25:02.63\00:25:05.00
And, you know, and I
remember receiving calls
00:25:05.03\00:25:09.90
and I said to them,
00:25:09.94\00:25:11.27
'cause we have a
good relationship with,
00:25:11.31\00:25:12.64
'cause we've been
there so many times.
00:25:12.67\00:25:14.01
Loved your church, we love
it. We love Tabernacle of Hope.
00:25:14.04\00:25:16.08
We look forward to
coming to visit Philadelphia.
00:25:16.11\00:25:18.38
But I say, just,
00:25:18.41\00:25:19.78
we just rest in the
Lord, trust in the Lord.
00:25:19.81\00:25:23.02
God is sending you a jewel
00:25:23.05\00:25:24.99
and you are going to,
and receive her and, oh,
00:25:25.02\00:25:28.26
when the calls came back to me,
00:25:28.29\00:25:29.89
you know, "Dr. Kim,
we cannot tell you."
00:25:29.92\00:25:32.89
When I saw them at
camp meeting, your members,
00:25:32.93\00:25:35.06
they were just tearful
how God had blessed them.
00:25:35.10\00:25:39.80
Let's talk about Pastor Judy.
00:25:39.83\00:25:41.47
And, she was the pastor,
00:25:41.50\00:25:46.01
well, before it was
another pastor in between.
00:25:46.04\00:25:49.38
But Pastor Judy was--
Tell us about Pastor Judy.
00:25:49.41\00:25:51.85
Pastor Judy was
a Bible counselor
00:25:51.88\00:25:56.08
in the area of Indianapolis.
00:25:56.12\00:25:59.29
And she raised up that
church through ministry,
00:25:59.32\00:26:05.19
feeding the poor,
reaching out to the community
00:26:05.23\00:26:08.10
and raised up that church.
00:26:08.13\00:26:09.46
And her family was
very good to support her.
00:26:09.50\00:26:13.17
She was then
given the responsibility
00:26:13.20\00:26:15.84
of pasturing the church.
00:26:15.87\00:26:19.77
She passed in 2005, June 2005.
00:26:19.81\00:26:24.98
And I don't think
it's by coincidence,
00:26:25.01\00:26:26.48
interestingly, that
was the very same time
00:26:26.51\00:26:28.05
I went to the
seminary, that very same week.
00:26:28.08\00:26:33.25
Anyway, she passed
00:26:33.29\00:26:35.39
and her memory lives on
because of the work she did,
00:26:35.42\00:26:39.46
not only in the
Tabernacle of Hope,
00:26:39.49\00:26:40.83
but in the community.
00:26:40.86\00:26:42.20
When I got to the
Indianapolis area,
00:26:42.23\00:26:45.13
and I was at a Starbucks,
you know, a little cafe,
00:26:45.17\00:26:49.60
I met a pastor, not
of our denomination.
00:26:49.64\00:26:54.91
Who knew her. Who knew her.
00:26:54.94\00:26:57.88
And so, her legacy lives on.
00:26:57.91\00:27:01.18
You know, we have
about 54, it's almost over.
00:27:01.22\00:27:03.89
Wow. I know.
00:27:03.92\00:27:05.25
It goes so fast. Yes.
00:27:05.29\00:27:06.99
I just want to say, Pastor,
that you are truly a friend
00:27:07.02\00:27:10.89
and we want to thank
you for coming all the way
00:27:10.93\00:27:12.56
from Indianapolis to be with us.
00:27:12.59\00:27:15.46
Last 30 seconds, what
can you say to our families?
00:27:15.50\00:27:17.97
Give us hope. Well,
this is what I'd say.
00:27:18.00\00:27:22.17
God loves you so very much
and He wants to lead your life.
00:27:22.20\00:27:29.94
But you have to let
Him. Let Him be your Lord.
00:27:29.98\00:27:34.75
And you won't be disappointed.
00:27:34.78\00:27:36.95
"Seek ye first
the kingdom of God
00:27:36.99\00:27:41.49
and all His righteousness,
00:27:41.52\00:27:43.19
and all these
things will be added unto."
00:27:43.22\00:27:45.79
Be it your family, your career,
00:27:45.83\00:27:48.90
your finances,
your social status.
00:27:48.93\00:27:51.07
Seek God first. Seek Him first.
00:27:51.10\00:27:53.47
Well, I want to thank Pastor
Tricia Wynn for being with us.
00:27:53.50\00:27:57.97
Thank you.
00:27:58.01\00:27:59.34
I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:27:59.37\00:28:01.68
Continue to Making it Work.
00:28:01.71\00:28:03.28
God Bless. God bless.
00:28:03.31\00:28:04.65