Hi, I'm Dr Kim Logan Nowlin.
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I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to Making It Work.
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Once again we are
excited about the program
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that we like to bring to
you through Making It Work.
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The question is how are you
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making it work
everyday in your life?
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How are you weathering
the storms in your life?
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Well, that takes
us to our guests.
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And, Arthur, I'm
excited, you know.
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Arthur, how you
doing by the way?
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I'm doing great.
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You know, you got a
different look today.
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Yeah, I'm-- I just
thought I'd be, a little flashy.
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Is that flashy? I thought so.
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With the blue and a tan. Right.
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You look good.
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It's a look that I started.
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I'm on a biker's jacket.
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Check me out, with the zippers.
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Yeah, you need
some work on that,
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but probably get through it.
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I don't know what it is, I
got to always have some work,
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you know, but anyway
that's going to talk.
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We're weathering some storms.
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Yes, definitely.
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Well, listen, I
want to welcome again
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some dear friends of
mine that I've known in the--
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within the city of
Detroit and I'm excited.
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Excellent.
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I want to welcome a
mother and son team tonight.
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And, Hai Snipes,
and, Devian Trotter,
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welcome to Making It Work.
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Thank you. Excellent.
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How you guys
doing? We're doing good.
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You know, this has
been a long time coming.
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Yes. A change is going to come.
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Yes.
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You know, well, listen,
we want to know your story.
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You know, heard bits and
pieces throughout the years,
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but now I pretended
for you to tell your story
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about your son and then,
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Devian, where you are
in your life right now.
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And your spirituality
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and where you are in the church.
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I'm going to turn to
it over to the two of you.
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Okay, um, name is
Hai Snipes like she said
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and I was a single parent.
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I was a mom that
didn't want to be a mom.
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Mm-hmm.
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When I found out I
was pregnant with my son,
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I'm gonna hold his
hand because he's my heart
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and I'm glad he's here,
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my mother pleaded
with me to keep Devian.
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And I wasn't trying
to know God at that time.
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Even though I'm a
third day-- third--
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Seventh-day Adventist.
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Generation? Generation, yes.
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I was 21 years old.
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I really didn't like men
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because of the relationship
I had with my father.
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I had no respect for guys.
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I looked at them
as less than women
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because I'm such a strong woman.
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So when I became pregnant
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I felt not so
much as disappointed,
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I felt it's
something I couldn't do.
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But that's where
God reached to me
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because when I
decided to have Devian,
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I gave him to Lord
when I got pregnant.
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Even though I got
pregnant out of wedlock
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which goes against
everything that we believe in.
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And I believed that God
blessed me with me Devian,
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a male, to teach
me how to love a man.
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So when I had, Devian,
it was-- it's a long story.
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He's been such a blessing,
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he was such a great kid
growing up, easy to raise.
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I knew his father
wouldn't be there,
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so I asked God to be his father.
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And He took care of Devian
all these years and blessed me.
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Even though Kim
knows a lot bit about me
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speaking at camp meeting,
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I'm going through
my second divorce.
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And it's funny it's a year later
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and I'm still going
through the divorce.
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But it's been a
blessing because it gave me
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an intimate
relationship with the Man, God.
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And it taught me to have
an experience and a testimony
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because like I
said, it's-- it's--
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I know it's a program
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that I have a
long story to tell,
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but the only thing I can say is,
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God is so good and
how He does stuff for us
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and how He takes
us through things.
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And through my journey in
life having my child on my own,
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being on my own,
taking care of myself
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going through to
failed marriages,
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I have a new sense of freedom.
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I went through a six
year period of being ill.
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I had pre
diabetes, Hashimoto's disease
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which for a lot of
people is thyroid disease.
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I had a stroke in my sleep.
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I went through cancer
scares, cervical cancers,
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breast cancer scares,
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but it only drew me
closer and closer to God.
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People always say,
"Oh, I feel sorry for you."
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Don't feel sorry for
me say, praise God, for me
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because I'm coming
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and I'm coming strong
with what my testimony is.
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So as far as life storms
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instead of us asking God
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to help us through the storms,
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I asked Him to help
us stand in the storm
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because that's
when you learn the best.
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We can go through
books, I can read the Bible,
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I can go through
school, I'm educated,
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but life's experience
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is what give you your
testimony to tell people.
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I can read every book there
is, but if I'd never lived it,
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I would never be able to
tell you where I'm coming from.
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So everything
that I've gone through,
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I'm at the point I am now.
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I never went to school
to be a doctor, I'm a nurse.
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I never went to
school to counsel people,
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but the Lord has guided me
to start counselling women.
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I told Dr Kim when I
talked to her the other day
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that nine years ago
at this very church,
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I can't remember
the pastor's name,
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but I think he was
the assistant pastor.
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Very, very nice gentleman.
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And a young lady named
Tawny, I remember her name.
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And my mom was like,
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"I'm gonna send them over to you
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to help you to quit smoking."
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And at that time of
course, like I said,
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I wasn't trying to
know God, I knew God,
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but I wasn't trying to know God.
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And when he tried to
help me quit smoking,
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I came to the
church and he looked at me
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and he said,
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"You're going to be
ministering to young women."
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And I looked at him like I just
want to quit smoking, you know.
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So it took me to retire
at the age of 36 years old
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and that's few years back,
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I'm nothing
much older than that.
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To get to where I'm at now,
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not only has the
Lord incorporated me,
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ministering and
having a testimony to women.
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There are men coming to
me now because when I say,
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"I didn't like men."
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The first thing people think is,
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"Oh, she likes
women instead of men."
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No, I love men.
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I had no respect
because I didn't have
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the respect for my
father like I should.
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But today I love my father,
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he did the best he
could with what he had.
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And a lot of times
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that we don't get true
forgiveness in our hearts
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then you can't look
past and I always pray.
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And a lot-- I'm a
prayer warrior for 3ABN.
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When I pray, I also
pray that God helps me
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to forgive thoroughly
as He forgives me daily.
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And not only that, I
thank Him for my trials
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because they only
come to make you strong.
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And a lot of
times we look at trials
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as being an
affliction or suffering.
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I said if that's the
kind of God that we have,
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I don't want to serve that God,
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but that's not
the God that I serve.
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The God that I serve is
such a loving and a kind God.
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And I can remember
one day when I was driving
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before I started-- how
I start talking to people,
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I still couldn't tell
you this day, God is good.
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I could hear the
Holy Spirits saying,
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"You need to have compassion."
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And it didn't, you know, bend me
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or make me felt a certain way,
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it just made me realize
that even though I love people,
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I have to be compassionate also
because everybody has a story.
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It's just some of us
don't know how to say it.
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I choose to be one of
them to say it and to say.
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Not only that I can sing
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and my sisters are
coming back singing are--
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You are going to
start singing again?
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Yeah, we're going
to start singing again.
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The Joan sisters, I tell you
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that was the
music back in the day.
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And I lost my
voice for four years.
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I would whisper when I talk.
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And as when I gave my life
to the Lord again, and I said,
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"Lord, this time,"
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a lot of us come to
God with half of a heart.
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We have to come
with a whole heart
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in order for us to be healed.
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And a lot of people when
they come to me they say,
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"Hi, can you pray for me?"
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Or, "Can you do this for me?"
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And I say, "How much are
you willing to give to God?"
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And a lot of people get
scared when they hear that
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and I tell God even after the,
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um, the end of day
or at the end of the day
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when I pray I say,
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even until death
will I follow Christ
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because He did it for me.
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And that's what
we must do daily.
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And like I said, I
know I'm probably jumping
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all over the place as
far as being a single mom.
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But coming from being
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a single mother
has brought me here
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and this is what God
has blessed me with, my son.
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And, I mean, I can talk
on, and on, and on, but...
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He smiles.
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Well, Devian, tell us
about you and all that mama said
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because you've
grown up with her.
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Ah-huh.
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Well, my name is Devian Trotter.
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I'm 20 years old,
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go to Wayne
State University now,
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it's my third year.
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A double major in
psychology and PR.
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I'm also involved
in a couple of things
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and camping including SAABs
00:10:51.08\00:10:52.41
doing African-American
brotherhood which is a peer
00:10:52.45\00:10:54.52
mentoring group
for incoming freshmans
00:10:54.55\00:10:56.58
in different levels of
guys that are in college,
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just to give them a backbone.
00:10:59.22\00:11:00.56
So we show them resources
and different things like that.
00:11:00.59\00:11:02.76
I'm also working in
black male engagement,
00:11:02.79\00:11:05.29
I'm actually really
excited about this one.
00:11:05.33\00:11:07.50
It helps me network
because I do want to do PR.
00:11:07.53\00:11:10.07
It helps me get the backbone
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that I need to be able
to talk to different people.
00:11:11.47\00:11:13.60
But we also going to community
00:11:13.64\00:11:15.14
help out with
different fund raisers
00:11:15.17\00:11:16.57
and different
community service events.
00:11:16.60\00:11:18.44
Get the interviews from
different guys, you know,
00:11:18.47\00:11:21.08
our-- our motto is
share inspire connect.
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It's what we really try to do,
00:11:24.25\00:11:25.61
we try to get all
these guys together
00:11:25.65\00:11:27.35
and share their story.
00:11:27.38\00:11:28.72
And it's for a way to
show that the black male
00:11:28.75\00:11:30.95
is important to
community instead of just being
00:11:30.99\00:11:32.89
portrayed in the media
00:11:32.92\00:11:34.26
where we're just
involved in violence,
00:11:34.29\00:11:36.22
gang banging and
different things like that.
00:11:36.26\00:11:38.56
That's outstanding.
Wow, you live on campus?
00:11:38.59\00:11:40.86
Yes, ma'am. How
you doing on campus?
00:11:40.90\00:11:43.06
I love it, I love it, I love it.
00:11:43.10\00:11:45.43
I'm lived about-- I actually
stay in my fraternity house.
00:11:45.47\00:11:47.00
Is that?
00:11:47.04\00:11:48.37
I can't bail if I stay
in my fraternity house.
00:11:48.40\00:11:49.74
Yeah, all right.
00:11:49.77\00:11:51.11
Sounds like you got
a-- a room with two...
00:11:51.14\00:11:55.48
No, just one-- one
other guy lives with me,
00:11:55.51\00:11:57.68
Martin Ray Jayson.
00:11:57.71\00:11:59.08
Okay, how many guys in house?
00:11:59.11\00:12:00.58
We have about 20
guys in the house.
00:12:00.62\00:12:02.65
Really? Yeah.
00:12:02.68\00:12:04.02
Where is the house, is it on...
00:12:04.05\00:12:05.62
It's right on Cass 4251 Cass.
00:12:05.65\00:12:07.86
Right off Wayne State.
00:12:07.89\00:12:09.22
Now in Wayne State campus,
00:12:09.26\00:12:10.66
Wayne State
University is a university
00:12:10.69\00:12:12.59
located in Central Detroit.
00:12:12.63\00:12:14.80
What's that area called now? Uh.
00:12:14.83\00:12:17.40
Midtown, Midtown,
that's what it is, Okay.
00:12:17.43\00:12:19.60
Okay.
00:12:19.63\00:12:20.97
So let me ask you
this, are you dating?
00:12:21.00\00:12:22.80
I'm-- I have female friends,
but not officially dating,
00:12:22.84\00:12:25.57
not officially dating.
00:12:25.61\00:12:26.94
Okay, all right,
so academics first?
00:12:26.98\00:12:29.04
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.
00:12:29.08\00:12:30.45
Well, let's talk
about you and the Lord.
00:12:30.48\00:12:31.98
You know, I've
known you for a long time,
00:12:32.01\00:12:34.05
you've been one of
my precious jewels,
00:12:34.08\00:12:36.79
you know, at camp meeting
00:12:36.82\00:12:38.15
and remember when
you broke your arm.
00:12:38.19\00:12:40.16
Oh, my goodness,
00:12:40.19\00:12:41.52
they brought a big
old screen TV in for me
00:12:41.56\00:12:43.16
to watch in the cabin.
00:12:43.19\00:12:44.59
And I said, "What?"
00:12:44.63\00:12:45.96
I said, "You
broke arm doing-- ".
00:12:45.99\00:12:47.33
"Playing ball."
00:12:47.36\00:12:48.70
You know, but you
bounced back, came back.
00:12:48.73\00:12:50.90
So let's talk about you
00:12:50.93\00:12:52.27
and your
relationship with the Lord.
00:12:52.30\00:12:53.64
You know, I am always
concerned with my young people.
00:12:53.67\00:12:56.64
Where is God in all of this?
00:12:56.67\00:12:58.34
Luckily I just,
I had one roommate,
00:12:58.37\00:13:00.48
who was a atheist.
00:13:00.51\00:13:01.84
He didn't believe in God.
00:13:01.88\00:13:03.21
But I have a new roommate
now who is actually very avid
00:13:03.24\00:13:05.65
and worshipping guy.
00:13:05.68\00:13:07.02
And so bless us so far
because we just sit there
00:13:07.05\00:13:09.22
and have talks right throughout
the night about religions,
00:13:09.25\00:13:11.65
and different
things and aspects.
00:13:11.69\00:13:13.52
So it's been pretty good so far.
00:13:13.56\00:13:14.89
But God has done so much for me.
00:13:14.92\00:13:16.49
If God didn't put my
mom in my life, honestly,
00:13:16.52\00:13:18.76
I probably wouldn't
be in school right now.
00:13:18.79\00:13:20.90
I have thanked God everyday
because I know all the guys
00:13:20.93\00:13:23.03
that came to school
with my freshman year,
00:13:23.06\00:13:24.53
I am the only one left.
00:13:24.57\00:13:25.90
And I'm the only
out of all the guys.
00:13:25.93\00:13:27.70
Yeah, I can
believe that. Really?
00:13:27.74\00:13:29.94
Right. They just
dropped out, quit?
00:13:29.97\00:13:32.17
Dropped out,
financial situations.
00:13:32.21\00:13:34.28
Out of all that I was
able to weather the storm
00:13:34.31\00:13:36.08
and I'm still here.
00:13:36.11\00:13:37.45
Weather the storm.
00:13:37.48\00:13:38.81
So, really I thank God so much
that I was able to have a mom
00:13:38.85\00:13:41.95
that was always in my ear,
even though I wanted to go out
00:13:41.98\00:13:44.59
and party and have fun, do
different things like that,
00:13:44.62\00:13:46.35
she was always in my ear.
00:13:46.39\00:13:47.72
Did you do this? Did
you make sure you do that?
00:13:47.76\00:13:49.42
And she doesn't know
that I actually lie sometimes
00:13:49.46\00:13:52.03
and say I didn't do
something just to make sure
00:13:52.06\00:13:53.70
she still stays on my tail.
00:13:53.73\00:13:55.56
So I am so thankful for that.
00:13:55.60\00:13:57.57
What's your GPA? My
GPA is at 3.2 right now.
00:13:57.60\00:14:00.14
That's excellent.
You better go ahead.
00:14:00.17\00:14:02.14
Do you have your own car?
I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
00:14:02.17\00:14:03.94
Do you have your
own car? Yes ma'am.
00:14:03.97\00:14:05.31
Oh! Yes, ma'am.
00:14:05.34\00:14:06.98
Are you a
responsible driver? I try to be.
00:14:07.01\00:14:09.51
You try to be. I try.
00:14:09.54\00:14:11.41
Oh, that's so nice.
Did you hear what he said?
00:14:11.45\00:14:14.15
He's a responsible
driver, he is trying to be.
00:14:14.18\00:14:16.32
That's wonderful. I'm
gonna leave that alone.
00:14:16.35\00:14:18.79
I think so.
00:14:18.82\00:14:20.16
And, you know, I'm not gonna--
I got a story to tell you
00:14:20.19\00:14:22.19
but I better leave that alone.
00:14:22.22\00:14:23.56
Alright. You know,
well, let me ask you.
00:14:23.59\00:14:25.73
You know, you were
raised Seventh-day Adventist,
00:14:25.76\00:14:27.23
you're fourth generation.
00:14:27.26\00:14:28.80
Now, you know, I
was in church yesterday
00:14:28.83\00:14:31.53
and Derek
Williams was the speaker.
00:14:31.57\00:14:33.97
And he spoke to the path finders
00:14:34.00\00:14:36.10
and he's now in his
junior year nursing at Andrew's.
00:14:36.14\00:14:39.47
He talked about
ten years of his life.
00:14:39.51\00:14:41.58
How he wasted it but God turned
00:14:41.61\00:14:43.98
what enemy
meant for bad to good.
00:14:44.01\00:14:46.41
But he talked
about us making sure
00:14:46.45\00:14:48.92
that our young people know
Jesus Christ a relationship.
00:14:48.95\00:14:51.42
Then with that they
will accept the Sabbath.
00:14:51.45\00:14:53.76
They will, you know,
return to their roots,
00:14:53.79\00:14:56.16
remembering, you know,
00:14:56.19\00:14:57.76
the standards of
00:14:57.79\00:14:59.13
the Seventh-day
Adventist Church.
00:14:59.16\00:15:00.50
How does that play a
role in your life now?
00:15:00.53\00:15:03.23
Since I was raised Seventh-day
Adventist, I honestly,
00:15:03.26\00:15:06.23
strayed away from it
when I was younger because,
00:15:06.27\00:15:08.60
you know, I wanted to go out
00:15:08.64\00:15:09.97
because all my friends
weren't Seventh-day Adventist.
00:15:10.01\00:15:11.51
Wanted to go out for
Friday nights, you know,
00:15:11.54\00:15:13.31
hang out on Saturday.
00:15:13.34\00:15:14.91
But the repercussions
that I was raised to see
00:15:14.94\00:15:17.58
that doing these things
and not worshipping God.
00:15:17.61\00:15:20.48
You know, if you
don't worship God,
00:15:20.52\00:15:21.85
what are you worshipping?
00:15:21.88\00:15:23.22
The devil.
00:15:23.25\00:15:24.59
So seeing these
things first hand,
00:15:24.62\00:15:25.95
how guys go out to clubs.
00:15:25.99\00:15:27.32
I have been in
situations to where,
00:15:27.36\00:15:28.79
thankfully I was
raised Seventh-day Adventist.
00:15:28.82\00:15:30.96
I didn't go to some
places on a Friday night,
00:15:30.99\00:15:33.09
where my friends had
guns pulled out on them
00:15:33.13\00:15:35.20
and different things like that.
00:15:35.23\00:15:36.56
So me straying away
00:15:36.60\00:15:37.93
and to actually
had to find out myself
00:15:37.97\00:15:39.80
and actually coming back to God
00:15:39.83\00:15:41.17
because I was raised
that in the first place.
00:15:41.20\00:15:43.27
It's a wonderful thing.
00:15:43.30\00:15:44.64
Because as a kid,
you're gonna try to rebel.
00:15:44.67\00:15:46.14
You're not trying to
stay and listen to parents.
00:15:46.17\00:15:48.04
You'll be like,
okay, I'm grown up,
00:15:48.08\00:15:49.48
I'm gonna do what I want to
and nothing is gonna happen.
00:15:49.51\00:15:51.78
But actually being
taught that as a child
00:15:51.81\00:15:53.72
and then being able to
come is a great thing for me.
00:15:53.75\00:15:55.45
I love to see
you at camp meeting.
00:15:55.48\00:15:56.99
When you-- when I
saw you with your mom,
00:15:57.02\00:15:58.55
walking with your mom,
I said, "look at this."
00:15:58.59\00:16:01.29
You know, and I mean,
00:16:01.32\00:16:02.72
where else you gonna
be during camp meeting?
00:16:02.76\00:16:04.46
But at camp meeting, you know.
00:16:04.49\00:16:07.16
Your father, let's talk
about that relationship.
00:16:07.20\00:16:10.20
My father, I
love the man dearly.
00:16:10.23\00:16:12.97
But he tries to be more
of my friend than a father.
00:16:13.00\00:16:16.17
Tries to be on that level
where we talk about things
00:16:16.20\00:16:19.24
that a father and son shouldn't
talk about at a certain age.
00:16:19.27\00:16:22.14
Like, he is more of my friend
during my middle school years
00:16:22.18\00:16:24.65
and high school years
instead of being there,
00:16:24.68\00:16:26.28
being a strict
man I need in my life.
00:16:26.31\00:16:28.18
And I'm thankful for my
mom, she was my mom and dad.
00:16:28.22\00:16:31.05
And he was there
almost like a friend.
00:16:31.09\00:16:33.69
So you know what?
00:16:33.72\00:16:35.06
Let me call dad
because I have a situation
00:16:35.09\00:16:37.19
where a friend can talk to.
00:16:37.23\00:16:38.56
Where that something happened
and I need a parent to talk to,
00:16:38.59\00:16:40.26
I will call my mom,
00:16:40.30\00:16:41.63
no matter what
the situation was.
00:16:41.66\00:16:43.06
You are so articulate.
Did mom mandate that from you?
00:16:43.10\00:16:46.27
Yeah, mom did.
00:16:46.30\00:16:47.77
Yeah mom is still
there even in her age.
00:16:47.80\00:16:49.67
And hasn't it paid off
00:16:49.70\00:16:51.04
and especially in the
field of public relations.
00:16:51.07\00:16:52.81
It has. Yes, ma'am.
00:16:52.84\00:16:54.21
And being able to
greet and meet people.
00:16:54.24\00:16:56.48
Because first
impressions are lasting.
00:16:56.51\00:16:57.85
Yeah.
00:16:57.88\00:16:59.21
And being a African
America male, psychology,
00:16:59.25\00:17:00.92
what do you
want to do with that?
00:17:00.95\00:17:02.28
Excuse me, I hate to interrupt.
But can I ask a question?
00:17:02.32\00:17:06.86
I mean, you were
just so engrossed.
00:17:06.89\00:17:08.76
I was waiting.
00:17:08.79\00:17:10.13
I'm sorry, I will
come back to my question.
00:17:10.16\00:17:12.59
You know. Hilarious.
00:17:12.63\00:17:13.96
Alright? Thank you very much.
00:17:14.00\00:17:15.33
I appreciate that.
00:17:15.36\00:17:16.70
I hope this question is dynamic.
00:17:16.73\00:17:18.07
Go ahead. You
know, I just want to...
00:17:18.10\00:17:19.43
you talked about a
father being a friend.
00:17:19.47\00:17:22.60
You know, could you
relate to the friendship.
00:17:22.64\00:17:28.74
And within that did you
see him trying to be a father
00:17:28.78\00:17:33.05
within that friendship at all?
00:17:33.08\00:17:34.75
With that friendship,
he basically talked to me
00:17:34.78\00:17:37.42
a level to where it
wasn't father and son
00:17:37.45\00:17:39.22
or child and parent.
00:17:39.25\00:17:40.59
Okay.
00:17:40.62\00:17:41.96
He talked to me like I was
at his age and on his level.
00:17:41.99\00:17:43.53
Even if it was involving
women or anything of the aspect,
00:17:43.56\00:17:46.36
some things I shouldn't,
00:17:46.39\00:17:47.73
didn't need to hear at that age.
00:17:47.76\00:17:49.10
Okay.
00:17:49.13\00:17:50.47
In middle school, you did
not need to hear these things.
00:17:50.50\00:17:51.83
And so as you got
older, you realized
00:17:51.87\00:17:54.60
that was not the
type of relationship
00:17:54.64\00:17:56.10
you really wanted.
00:17:56.14\00:17:57.47
Yes, sir.
00:17:57.51\00:17:58.84
Have you ever talked to him
00:17:58.87\00:18:00.21
about what type of
relationship you do want?
00:18:00.24\00:18:01.71
I mean, when I do talk to
him, it's really not about that.
00:18:01.74\00:18:05.31
I just talk to him because
I stay in contact with him
00:18:05.35\00:18:07.12
because of my brothers.
00:18:07.15\00:18:08.48
And I have four
younger brothers.
00:18:08.52\00:18:09.85
So I try to be the role model
00:18:09.88\00:18:11.22
and do all these things
in community and be involved.
00:18:11.25\00:18:13.02
When I do actually
get and talk to my father,
00:18:13.05\00:18:15.59
it's really not that pleasant
00:18:15.62\00:18:17.89
where it should be a
father and son relation.
00:18:17.93\00:18:19.76
It's just basically
us just being friends.
00:18:19.79\00:18:22.10
How does that make you feel?
00:18:22.13\00:18:24.27
At this point in my life,
00:18:24.30\00:18:25.80
it really doesn't
make me feel too bad.
00:18:25.83\00:18:27.54
It just means I need to step up
00:18:27.57\00:18:29.00
and be a better
father than I saw.
00:18:29.04\00:18:30.57
Okay.
00:18:30.61\00:18:31.94
That means I need
to be a better man
00:18:31.97\00:18:33.31
and make sure I'm
there for my younger brothers
00:18:33.34\00:18:34.68
so they don't have to go
through the same thing I did.
00:18:34.71\00:18:36.08
Okay. How old are your brothers?
00:18:36.11\00:18:37.48
Ha from thirteen to eight, four.
00:18:37.51\00:18:39.98
It's four of them.
00:18:40.02\00:18:41.35
Two twins and
then two other boys.
00:18:41.38\00:18:43.05
Really?
00:18:43.08\00:18:44.42
They have the same
mom, all the same mom?
00:18:44.45\00:18:45.79
All the same mom.
00:18:45.82\00:18:47.16
And this is your
father's second wife?
00:18:47.19\00:18:48.69
Yeah, my father's
first wife, she passed away.
00:18:48.72\00:18:51.03
Oh, she did. Okay.
00:18:51.06\00:18:52.83
So do you give them?
Do you hang out with them?
00:18:52.86\00:18:57.87
I try as much as possible
but with school and work
00:18:57.90\00:19:00.24
keeps me pretty occupied.
00:19:00.27\00:19:01.80
So I need to do a
lot more and being like,
00:19:01.84\00:19:04.01
more involved and
I try to call them.
00:19:04.04\00:19:06.21
But I need to do
a lot more. Okay.
00:19:06.24\00:19:07.98
So I try to make
more room for them.
00:19:08.01\00:19:09.34
Okay.
00:19:09.38\00:19:10.71
Let me ask, you have had
two marriages and you said,
00:19:10.75\00:19:14.25
you know, you had
problems with both of them.
00:19:14.28\00:19:20.39
What were the things
that stood out the most
00:19:20.42\00:19:23.93
in your
relationship with these men?
00:19:23.96\00:19:27.00
I had to look
with inside myself.
00:19:27.03\00:19:29.70
Because a lot of time they
say you attract what you are.
00:19:29.73\00:19:32.93
Mm-hmm.
00:19:32.97\00:19:35.57
And as being a wounded
woman, I attracted wounded men.
00:19:35.60\00:19:40.54
So the men that I
chose were like my father.
00:19:40.58\00:19:46.31
And when I got
into the relationship,
00:19:46.35\00:19:50.55
I really didn't have the
respect that I should have.
00:19:50.59\00:19:53.36
I never mistreated or
said bad things, verbatim,
00:19:53.39\00:19:59.76
I would say verbatim.
00:19:59.79\00:20:01.23
You know, but I would probably
be demeaning in my, you know,
00:20:01.26\00:20:06.33
actions and different thing
00:20:06.37\00:20:07.90
especially with
this last marriage.
00:20:07.94\00:20:10.57
You know, I often pray
that he one day forgives me
00:20:10.61\00:20:13.81
as I've forgiven him.
00:20:13.84\00:20:15.71
But it was a, excuse
me, a terrible marriage.
00:20:15.74\00:20:22.88
Terrible, terrible marriage.
00:20:22.92\00:20:24.25
How long where you
married the second time?
00:20:24.29\00:20:27.02
We were, we have
been together 10 years.
00:20:27.06\00:20:29.02
We are married seven years now
because we are still married.
00:20:29.06\00:20:31.99
And we are still in the
process of divorcing, you know,
00:20:32.03\00:20:35.36
they say that absence
make the heart grow fonder.
00:20:35.40\00:20:39.53
It's not always so absence
gave me a chance to really,
00:20:39.57\00:20:43.64
really learn how to love.
00:20:43.67\00:20:45.54
You know, I understand what
that appeal means to love God
00:20:45.57\00:20:48.51
with all your heart
and then love yourself
00:20:48.54\00:20:50.88
and your neighbors as yourself.
00:20:50.91\00:20:53.01
So it gave me a
different prospective.
00:20:53.05\00:20:55.12
So if God, when he
does bust me again,
00:20:55.15\00:20:59.19
I know, you know,
and I will understand
00:20:59.22\00:21:02.19
what it is to have a
relationship with a man now.
00:21:02.22\00:21:06.13
Women, love them all day long.
00:21:06.16\00:21:08.23
Men on the other hand,
he is still working on me,
00:21:08.26\00:21:10.73
I'm a work in progress.
00:21:10.77\00:21:12.10
I was listening to somebody say
one day, which was my cousin.
00:21:12.13\00:21:15.97
She said, "We've been
endorsed for a night joy
00:21:16.00\00:21:18.71
comes in the morning.
00:21:18.74\00:21:20.08
We just don't
know which morning."
00:21:20.11\00:21:21.74
So I'll just wait.
00:21:21.78\00:21:23.11
You know until that time
comes but as if right now,
00:21:23.14\00:21:26.31
I am at peace and I am content
and I can now look at a male
00:21:26.35\00:21:32.12
as respectful because
I respect God so much.
00:21:32.15\00:21:36.76
One final question.
00:21:36.79\00:21:40.16
Never thought about
reconciling on, you know,
00:21:40.20\00:21:42.90
with this relationship?
00:21:42.93\00:21:44.27
Oh, no. No. Not
until so, I bet no.
00:21:44.30\00:21:46.20
Okay. I'm loving life.
00:21:46.23\00:21:48.90
Did you all go to
counseling? Yes, several times.
00:21:48.94\00:21:52.01
Because he has-he
has-- I went to therapy.
00:21:52.04\00:21:57.05
He has very,
very serious problems.
00:21:57.08\00:21:59.61
You know, so it's something
that I think the God is just...
00:21:59.65\00:22:04.82
he's still working things out.
00:22:04.85\00:22:07.29
You know, but he had get me
to the point where not so much,
00:22:07.32\00:22:12.83
divorce was
eminent for me years ago.
00:22:12.86\00:22:15.90
It's just now I had
to step out on faith.
00:22:15.93\00:22:20.84
And when I stepped out on faith
00:22:20.87\00:22:22.30
because I had grounds
for divorce years ago.
00:22:22.34\00:22:24.71
Okay.
00:22:24.74\00:22:26.07
It's just now, I am the
one that walked and said,
00:22:26.11\00:22:28.14
"Okay let's do this."
00:22:28.18\00:22:29.51
And I don't
encourage anybody to divorce
00:22:29.54\00:22:31.71
because there is ways
that you can work things out
00:22:31.75\00:22:34.58
but my marriage is not workable.
00:22:34.62\00:22:38.89
Because I don't, you
know, I don't want it anymore.
00:22:38.92\00:22:41.46
You know, I wanna live
my life and do it right.
00:22:41.49\00:22:45.66
This wasn't right. You know, so.
00:22:45.69\00:22:48.13
How did your
relationship impact your son?
00:22:48.16\00:22:51.13
What did he see?
What did he overhear?
00:22:51.17\00:22:54.14
He looked at
mom as being strong.
00:22:54.17\00:23:00.54
I don't-- I asked him.
00:23:00.58\00:23:02.34
I said, "Do you, how did
you feel about your step dad?"
00:23:02.38\00:23:04.91
And he said, "I don't
feel anyway because I never,
00:23:04.95\00:23:07.92
ever put him down to the point
that he is not a still a man."
00:23:07.95\00:23:11.75
But that question would have
to probably be posed to him,
00:23:11.79\00:23:15.42
because I
really don't, you know.
00:23:15.46\00:23:17.29
Well, Devian, how
did it impact you?
00:23:17.33\00:23:19.53
It showed me first hand
how to act in a relationship
00:23:19.56\00:23:23.00
and how you should treat women.
00:23:23.03\00:23:24.37
Especially from a
man's point of view.
00:23:24.40\00:23:26.40
Honestly, there is certain
boundaries and certain ways
00:23:26.43\00:23:29.64
you should handle things,
especially in a relationship.
00:23:29.67\00:23:32.41
If things can't work by
itself, of course, go to,
00:23:32.44\00:23:35.31
speak to a psychologist.
00:23:35.34\00:23:36.68
It's what I like to do.
00:23:36.71\00:23:38.05
I like to talk to people and
actually talking with my mom.
00:23:38.08\00:23:39.41
I love talking with her.
00:23:39.45\00:23:40.78
It's actually pushed me to
go this way, the way I am gong.
00:23:40.82\00:23:43.52
I am actually
talking and just learning
00:23:43.55\00:23:44.92
how the human mind works.
00:23:44.95\00:23:46.29
How we react to things.
00:23:46.32\00:23:47.66
All the way down from
how you make a decision
00:23:47.69\00:23:49.16
from picking a certain
color to be your favorite color.
00:23:49.19\00:23:51.46
All the way to far up
as being a serial killer.
00:23:51.49\00:23:54.36
What makes you snap?
What makes you think that way?
00:23:54.40\00:23:56.80
So one thing from
seeing her relationships
00:23:56.83\00:23:59.10
is being a man first of all,
00:23:59.13\00:24:01.90
especially being a
God given strong man,
00:24:01.94\00:24:05.17
and just accepting what's going
to happen and it just overcome.
00:24:05.21\00:24:08.08
I can see you as a psychologist.
00:24:08.11\00:24:09.91
Your tone, you
know, your eye contact.
00:24:09.94\00:24:14.18
You don't frighten people,
people will open up to you.
00:24:14.22\00:24:18.89
You've got that gift from
the Lord, do you know that?
00:24:18.92\00:24:21.06
Yes, ma'am.
00:24:21.09\00:24:22.42
You know, and
you have to use it.
00:24:22.46\00:24:24.03
I mean, you have to
go out with your Ph.D.
00:24:24.06\00:24:25.39
You know that? You
know I'm gonna be on you.
00:24:25.43\00:24:26.76
Yes, ma'am. You know.
00:24:26.80\00:24:28.13
Yes, ma'am. That's a blessing.
00:24:28.16\00:24:30.07
God is preparing you
with such a great way.
00:24:30.10\00:24:32.87
You know, let's
talk about, you know,
00:24:32.90\00:24:36.57
where are you worshipping now?
00:24:36.60\00:24:37.94
Where are you?
00:24:37.97\00:24:39.31
I go to Liberty
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:24:39.34\00:24:40.68
which is in Belleville.
00:24:40.71\00:24:42.21
We went from a, I believe
it is a apostolic church.
00:24:42.24\00:24:45.65
We used to have a
church but they sold the church
00:24:45.68\00:24:48.38
and this-- there
was eight of us there.
00:24:48.42\00:24:51.59
The Belleville church? Mm-hmm.
00:24:51.62\00:24:53.36
They sold that church? Yes.
00:24:53.39\00:24:54.72
Church on sector road? Yeah.
00:24:54.76\00:24:56.09
They sold it.
00:24:56.12\00:24:57.46
And the church
is called Liberty?
00:24:57.49\00:24:58.83
Liberty
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:24:58.86\00:25:00.20
And who is the pastor there?
00:25:00.23\00:25:01.56
We have no pastor currently
00:25:01.60\00:25:03.60
but we have our column
of motivational speaker.
00:25:03.63\00:25:07.07
I'm sure I will be up
there speaking shortly
00:25:07.10\00:25:09.07
but we have no pastor.
00:25:09.10\00:25:10.84
We had 2 pastors within
the last, maybe 2 years.
00:25:10.87\00:25:15.41
And we can't really keep them
because they are trying to do
00:25:15.44\00:25:17.55
the Cherry Hills
church and several churches.
00:25:17.58\00:25:20.45
So because we are such a small
flock they are probably like,
00:25:20.48\00:25:23.75
"Hey, you know, I wanna go to."
00:25:23.79\00:25:25.69
You know, but that's
where God to me can reach,
00:25:25.72\00:25:28.59
in small groups.
00:25:28.62\00:25:30.46
Oh, right.
00:25:30.49\00:25:31.83
You know, so we just
have a guy, his name is Alan.
00:25:31.86\00:25:34.03
Hi, Alan.
00:25:34.06\00:25:35.50
He speaks and he
speaks very well.
00:25:35.53\00:25:37.83
Oh, praise God.
00:25:37.87\00:25:39.70
You know, your
mother, wow, what a pillar.
00:25:39.73\00:25:43.91
And sister Young.
00:25:43.94\00:25:45.51
And you have
other aunts and uncles?
00:25:45.54\00:25:47.44
Yes.
00:25:47.48\00:25:48.81
How large is the
family? It was nine of them.
00:25:48.84\00:25:52.21
And my aunt Sharon passed away.
00:25:52.25\00:25:58.69
My mom is roughly,
like, in the middle.
00:25:58.72\00:26:02.32
But if you see
them, you'll smile
00:26:02.36\00:26:04.93
because some of
them are my color
00:26:04.96\00:26:07.76
and some of them
are my son's color.
00:26:07.80\00:26:09.13
So they look at us like,
Okay, you're Joans people.
00:26:09.16\00:26:13.67
Yeah but it's different.
00:26:13.70\00:26:15.20
You know, we're all
but we are coming together,
00:26:15.24\00:26:18.11
and it's a lot of women.
00:26:18.14\00:26:20.41
A lot of women. You
do have a lot of women?
00:26:20.44\00:26:22.78
Yes.
00:26:22.81\00:26:24.15
In the family, in relationship
to spirituality and God,
00:26:24.18\00:26:31.02
what is your hope?
00:26:31.05\00:26:32.39
You know, talk to the
camera, I want you to have
00:26:32.42\00:26:34.09
about a minute to go.
00:26:34.12\00:26:35.89
Both of you, take us out.
00:26:35.92\00:26:38.43
What do people need
to know about having
00:26:38.46\00:26:40.53
this type of
relationship and making it work?
00:26:40.56\00:26:44.50
First of all.
00:26:44.53\00:26:45.87
I would say be truthful
and honest about everything
00:26:45.90\00:26:50.74
because God already knows.
00:26:50.77\00:26:55.14
And love people unconditionally.
00:26:55.18\00:26:58.71
Don't put stipulations on people
00:26:58.75\00:27:01.95
because a person makes
you feel the certain way.
00:27:01.98\00:27:04.82
Just love them unconditionally
and take it to God,
00:27:04.85\00:27:07.26
God will help you
work out everything.
00:27:07.29\00:27:09.66
I have learned that. Amen.
00:27:09.69\00:27:11.03
Devian, what do you say?
00:27:11.06\00:27:12.39
Even though I'm not a parent
yet, this is for the parents,
00:27:12.43\00:27:15.40
be involved in your kid's
life because you never know
00:27:15.43\00:27:18.17
what's gonna make or
break them in the future.
00:27:18.20\00:27:20.64
No matter if it's
finances, relationships,
00:27:20.67\00:27:23.30
or different
things of that aspect.
00:27:23.34\00:27:25.04
If you have somebody strong
00:27:25.07\00:27:26.41
that's in your
corner no matter what,
00:27:26.44\00:27:28.14
there is nothing
you can't overcome.
00:27:28.18\00:27:29.51
Wow.
00:27:29.54\00:27:31.01
Well, Arthur, I am so
glad you are in my corner.
00:27:31.05\00:27:32.95
I'm in your corner,
sweetheart. And I'm in yours.
00:27:32.98\00:27:35.08
Oh, then I can beat
anything. I know that's right.
00:27:35.12\00:27:38.25
Pull through this, you guys.
00:27:38.29\00:27:39.62
Listen, I want to thank
you both for being with us.
00:27:39.65\00:27:41.32
Thank you. Thank you.
00:27:41.36\00:27:42.69
We love you and we continue,
we're gonna look forward
00:27:42.72\00:27:44.06
to even greater things ahead.
00:27:44.09\00:27:45.43
Yes. Yes.
00:27:45.46\00:27:46.80
Well, I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Authur Nowlin.
00:27:46.83\00:27:48.40
And thank you for
joining us on Making It Work.
00:27:48.43\00:27:50.47
God bless. God bless.
00:27:50.50\00:27:52.33