Hi, I am Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to Making It Work.
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Today, we're going to
talk to a very special guest.
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She wears many, many
hats. She's many roles.
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But today she is here
to talk about parenting,
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role reversal, and the impact
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it has had on her life.
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Welcome Joanne Tolson Fuller.
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How are you today? I'm good.
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Thank you so much
for having me today.
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Oh, you're very welcome.
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I love you
personally because you take care
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of the outer side of
me and my inner soul.
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You're my cosmetologist
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and, you know, my
beauty care specialist.
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But you've gone through
some things in this last year,
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year and half.
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Joanne, tell us your story
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'cause no one knows
your story like you.
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Tell us about
what has happen to you
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and your parents?
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Well, I've lost
both of my parents.
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My mother began
the stages of dementia.
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You know, I had
so many names for it,
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back then it used to
be senility, dementia,
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some people used
to call it spell,
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but she went through
her stage of dementia
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and I was the first one
to notice it in the family
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because I guess,
because I'm not there,
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I didn't live with
them, where my brother
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that lives in Chicago with
them and my dad didn't see it
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but I saw it.
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And so it took them
a while to get on board
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as far as
realizing what was going on
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and seeking help.
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But during that time
that I've noticed it,
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she wouldn't make
little statements like
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my cranium is not working today.
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That was her favorite statement.
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When she
couldn't remember things
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or when things
got her frustrated,
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you know, she would say,
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"My cranium is
not working today."
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And...
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Of course it progressed
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because my dad wouldn't take her
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to the hospital
or to the doctors.
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He felt like there was
nothing wrong with her,
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it was just old age.
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And so, finally
things did got to the point
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where she would
drive and get lost.
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And we had one
incident where she took--
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My dad had her
doctor's appointment
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and it was
raining and she told him,
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"I'm going to go and see
if the car windows are up."
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And he gave her the
keys, and she went to the car
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and when he came out
from his doctor's appointment,
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she could not be found.
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So my brother calls me
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because they
couldn't find her anywhere.
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And he calls me and I told him
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what, did you put
out a Amber Alert.
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And so a lot of
people think Amber Alert
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is only for
children, but it's not.
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So I have to tell him
to put out a Amber Alert
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because she does not know.
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I'm sure she does not
know where she is going.
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She probably
thought she was going back
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to Wisconsin or something
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because she started
talking about home a lot.
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Going home, she started
talking about her parents.
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And she started talking about
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her brothers and
sisters, they were 12 of them,
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but she was talking about
them as they were younger.
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And so, we put out a Amber Alert
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and they found
her 24 hours later
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in a small town in Indiana.
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And the police
had to chase her down.
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They had to shoot the tires out,
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so that she would stop driving.
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And even when they
shot the tires out,
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she got out of the car
and just started running.
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And so thank God
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that, you know,
nothing happened to her,
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that nobody else
found her that you know.
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And then when my dad and brother
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finally drove from Chicago
to this little town in Indiana,
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she came out, you know,
they had her in the back
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and she came out and was like,
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"Hey, what's going on,
you know, what you're doing?"
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I mean she really had
no-- She did not remember
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what she had done.
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And that was the turning
point for my dad to really,
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okay, you know, what?
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This is what you need to do.
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And it was a
struggle for all of us,
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but it was really
a struggle for him
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because, you know,
this was his life mate
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for over 50
years, for over 50 years.
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And what I did was I
started looking up information
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for dementia and Alzheimer's,
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and got into contact
with Alzheimer's Association.
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And they offered
free classes everywhere.
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And so my
girlfriend started noticing
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some things about her mom.
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And we decided that we would
go to these classes together.
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So we went to these,
there was a six week period
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and we went to these
classes together for six weeks
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to learn about Alzheimer's,
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to learn how to work
with Alzheimer's patients.
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How to deal with them,
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you know, because a
lot of people I found
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and I found this with my dad
that I have to really tell him,
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you don't have to
correct her all the time
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because she is at her own world.
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But she is telling a lie.
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Well, but she
doesn't know that is a lie,
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you know, so you can't
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but because then it
makes them frustrated
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and that's when
they start getting angry,
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so I've learned from
the Alzheimer's Association
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that there is their own world.
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So you don't always
have to correct them.
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You know, if they
say, the sky is red,
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and you know the sky is blue.
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Okay. Okay.
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No, can't you
see the sky is blue.
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It frustrates them
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and that's when
a lot of the anger
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and a lot of the
confusion for them comes out.
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And sometimes it sends them
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spiraling down even to worse.
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So Alzheimer's Association
really helped me a lot
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and they continue
to send information,
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like I said
their classes are free.
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They are free.
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They will teach you
how to do everything.
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Excuse me.
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So how long did this process go?
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I mean, you know, when
you first recognized it
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and then as it progressed
how, what was the time span?
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It was probably
about three or four years.
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Okay.
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To the point that she passed.
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Most probably four years.
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And here is your
father, you're PK, pastor kid,
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a preacher's kid, and you know,
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I remember your mom being
our Sabbath school teacher,
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church, in the
church, I mean just busy,
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camp meeting at that corner
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at the Lake
Region Camp going out,
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you know with her sister.
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And to see or to
have your brother call you
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and say, okay, we found mom,
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you know, did you have to
start going back and forth.
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What were your
responsibilities all over this?
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I did mainly with my mom
because once they realized
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and she did, they did finally
put her on some medications
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which helped to
keep her a little calm.
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You know, I tell to anyone,
my mother to be lethargic,
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to be, you know, like she is--
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you know because some
people, they can't function.
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And they just put
them on so much medication,
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but we just wanted her
to stay calm and to be,
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so that we could work with her.
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And so, once they found out,
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I didn't have to
go back as often,
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but what I did with my
brother is that I told him,
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he could call me
anytime, day or night.
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You know, because I
was like his release.
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And but I would go
back and kind of help in,
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and just to keep my face in.
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The hardest part was
when it got to the point
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where she didn't know who I was.
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And basically she didn't know
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who a lot of us
were, didn't know.
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What point was that?
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When Alzheimer's
started really progressing,
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who are you again
and ask, you know,
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you ask a question.
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Do you have children?
Yeah, I have children.
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Well, and then, but
she is looking at you like
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who are you, you know.
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So and then even my
dad, I guess it had regressed
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or back to the point
where they were like dating.
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So he would try to
get her ready for bed
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or something like that.
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You can't be
doing that. I can't--
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You're not
supposed to be in my house,
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you know, that kind of
stuff. So it was like, okay.
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And there was one time I came up
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and had cooks for
them and was washing dishes
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and my dad told her, okay,
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well, can I get
you ready for bed?
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Well, who is going to do
it because you can't do it.
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And he said, look behind you,
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look and see who is
behind you and he was like...
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She looked behind and you mean
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that lady is
going to put me to bed.
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That lady. That lady.
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And another time
I went and she had--
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she was walking around
with my picture in her hand.
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And because we put
all of our pictures
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on her mirror in her bedroom.
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And so she-- I guess
she had taken it down,
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was walking around the house
with my picture in her hand.
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And finally one evening,
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we were just
sitting in the living room,
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talking and everything.
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She looked at the picture
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and she just
threw it in the corner.
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And I mean that just
kind of like, that crushed me.
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You know, and everybody
was looking at me like,
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okay, what is she going to do?
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But I didn't react.
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I didn't react
because she didn't know
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what she was doing, you know.
00:10:08.30\00:10:10.61
And, you know, so
you through those things,
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so I really--
It's heart wrenching
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to see your parents.
00:10:15.21\00:10:17.25
You know, you think they're
going to be there forever.
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You know, we know
their life is not forever
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but when it comes to the
point that you gonna lose them
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or you're losing them,
this is heart wrenching.
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Absolutely. Had
your father had a stroke?
00:10:29.79\00:10:32.09
You said he had
multiple strokes,
00:10:32.13\00:10:33.46
as your father
passed away also recently.
00:10:33.50\00:10:36.36
Did he had any
strokes during the time
00:10:36.40\00:10:38.97
your mom was ill?
00:10:39.00\00:10:40.34
No, he didn't.
00:10:40.37\00:10:41.70
Actually God kept him,
kept him really healthy.
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All together. Yes, he did.
00:10:45.11\00:10:47.01
And he took care of her.
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There was no way that
she is going to a home.
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No way. No way.
00:10:52.91\00:10:54.25
That wasn't even--
That wasn't even an option.
00:10:54.28\00:10:55.85
That wasn't even an option.
00:10:55.88\00:10:57.82
And so, we went and we
had to take carpeting up
00:10:57.85\00:11:00.72
in the house and you know,
00:11:00.76\00:11:02.42
put chairlifts up
to go up the stairs,
00:11:02.46\00:11:07.00
brought chairs that could--
00:11:07.03\00:11:08.50
the ones that
can help you get up.
00:11:08.53\00:11:12.07
We just really
just changed the house
00:11:12.10\00:11:13.90
so that she could
function in the house.
00:11:13.94\00:11:17.74
And but there was no way
00:11:17.77\00:11:19.11
that he was going to
put her in a nursing home.
00:11:19.14\00:11:21.61
So at this point the
whole family is devastated.
00:11:21.64\00:11:25.25
Oh, yeah.
00:11:25.28\00:11:26.61
You know, and it's
like the more information
00:11:26.65\00:11:29.82
that came out, you
know, the more you recognized
00:11:29.85\00:11:32.49
that there was really
nothing that could be done.
00:11:32.52\00:11:35.72
But in the meanwhile
00:11:35.76\00:11:38.83
they were also
providing you with medication.
00:11:38.86\00:11:43.40
Right. To help.
00:11:43.43\00:11:45.27
What actually did
the medication do?
00:11:45.30\00:11:47.84
The medication, one medication
just kept her kind of calm.
00:11:47.87\00:11:51.31
One medication was also supposed
00:11:51.34\00:11:53.54
to slow the
advancement of this Alzheimer's.
00:11:53.58\00:11:57.85
It was supposed to slow it down.
00:11:57.88\00:11:59.21
It would not take it way.
00:11:59.25\00:12:01.75
It would not even
make her go back to,
00:12:01.78\00:12:05.95
it would just
kind of slow it down.
00:12:05.99\00:12:07.92
And there's a lot--
00:12:07.96\00:12:09.29
there are lot of
medications out there,
00:12:09.32\00:12:10.93
but you have to pick and choose.
00:12:10.96\00:12:14.53
You really do because
like what are the medications
00:12:14.56\00:12:16.73
they want to put
her on caused fainting.
00:12:16.77\00:12:20.74
Now, my dad was
80 something also,
00:12:20.77\00:12:24.81
so if she faints in the house,
so if you take her somewhere,
00:12:24.84\00:12:27.41
she faints, who is
going to pick her up.
00:12:27.44\00:12:30.35
That was one of the major
side effects of the medicine.
00:12:30.38\00:12:34.98
So we decided not to
put her on that medicine.
00:12:35.02\00:12:38.92
But there are lot of different.
And you have to ask questions.
00:12:38.95\00:12:42.39
You know, lot of doctors
got a little upset with those
00:12:42.42\00:12:46.13
because we'd ask
questions and why,
00:12:46.16\00:12:49.73
and, well, we don't that.
00:12:49.76\00:12:51.60
Well, I'm your doctor.
00:12:51.63\00:12:53.17
What do you mean
you don't want it?
00:12:53.20\00:12:54.57
But we still ask.
We still have a choice.
00:12:54.60\00:12:57.77
So you have to ask questions.
00:12:57.81\00:12:59.27
You have to stand
up for your loved ones.
00:12:59.31\00:13:05.85
Did you also receive
like assistance from...?
00:13:05.88\00:13:10.09
Yes. Okay.
00:13:10.12\00:13:11.45
Yes, we did receive
assistance that came in,
00:13:11.49\00:13:14.06
three to four times a week.
00:13:14.09\00:13:15.76
And they would make
sure that she, you know,
00:13:15.79\00:13:17.33
she was taken care
of, that she was bathed
00:13:17.36\00:13:19.96
and they would cook,
clean, light cleaning,
00:13:20.00\00:13:24.73
maybe even do some light
laundry, stuff like that.
00:13:24.77\00:13:27.54
And that really helped my dad.
00:13:27.57\00:13:30.37
And then of
course my brother would
00:13:30.41\00:13:31.94
who, he still lives in Chicago.
00:13:31.97\00:13:34.04
He also went over to help.
00:13:34.08\00:13:36.31
So it was-- it's
a lot of work but...
00:13:36.34\00:13:40.35
And you still maintained
your business here in Detroit.
00:13:40.38\00:13:43.69
You're married,
you have a son. Yes.
00:13:43.72\00:13:46.19
And you're women's
ministry leader of the church.
00:13:46.22\00:13:49.86
Yes.
00:13:49.89\00:13:51.23
You know, music
committee, lot of hats you wear.
00:13:51.26\00:13:55.03
You know, and, you
know, your own spirituality.
00:13:55.06\00:13:59.60
How did it impact
your spirituality?
00:13:59.63\00:14:01.64
It was hard. It was hard.
00:14:01.67\00:14:03.87
It was rough.
00:14:03.91\00:14:06.74
Actually, it was like,
00:14:06.78\00:14:09.54
you know, how some
times you get so busy
00:14:09.58\00:14:12.05
that it's almost
you have no time for God
00:14:12.08\00:14:15.05
but I would find myself praying
00:14:15.08\00:14:16.42
while I was on the road a prayer
00:14:16.45\00:14:18.69
because it's like you don't
have time to sit and study.
00:14:18.72\00:14:21.89
You don't have time to just
00:14:21.92\00:14:23.83
and so actually it was
after my mother passed.
00:14:23.86\00:14:28.66
And, you know, I was
really going through and--
00:14:28.70\00:14:33.74
I told, I asked God,
you know, You told me
00:14:33.77\00:14:35.64
that You would be a Comforter.
00:14:35.67\00:14:37.41
And I know I haven't
been in the word like
00:14:37.44\00:14:39.04
I should have been and I
know I haven't been studying,
00:14:39.07\00:14:42.58
but you know, I
talked to you everyday
00:14:42.61\00:14:45.58
and even talk and
pray while I'm driving,
00:14:45.61\00:14:47.45
I talk and pray while
I'm working, whatever.
00:14:47.48\00:14:50.02
And, one morning I
got up and I went down
00:14:50.05\00:14:53.52
and I got my
Sabbath school lesson,
00:14:53.56\00:14:55.89
I got two different
versions of the Bible,
00:14:55.92\00:14:57.99
I got the Desire of Ages,
I just and I sat on my bed
00:14:58.03\00:15:01.36
and I was like, okay,
Lord, show me something.
00:15:01.40\00:15:04.30
Something like because I
felt like I was going crazy.
00:15:04.33\00:15:07.54
I felt like I was losing it.
00:15:07.57\00:15:09.27
And it was really just--
I could just hear His voice
00:15:09.30\00:15:13.88
and He just said, "You
need to pull all that away.
00:15:13.91\00:15:17.05
You can't hide
behind all of that.
00:15:17.08\00:15:18.98
You need to
come directly to me."
00:15:19.01\00:15:20.52
I see.
00:15:20.55\00:15:21.88
And I mean,
that morning was just
00:15:21.92\00:15:24.85
and I crawled up at my pillow
00:15:24.89\00:15:28.22
and I held my
pillow and I'm telling you,
00:15:28.26\00:15:31.43
when you hear people say,
00:15:31.46\00:15:32.79
they feel like
they're in the bosom of God,
00:15:32.83\00:15:34.76
I felt like I was
in the bosom of God.
00:15:34.80\00:15:37.10
And I just cried and
cried because I couldn't cry
00:15:37.13\00:15:40.60
because I was so
busy, I couldn't,
00:15:40.64\00:15:42.57
and then my
brothers depended on me,
00:15:42.60\00:15:44.14
I'm the only girl.
00:15:44.17\00:15:45.51
So they depended on me to
do, even with the funeral,
00:15:45.54\00:15:48.18
with everything.
00:15:48.21\00:15:49.54
You know, with my
dad, like the funeral,
00:15:49.58\00:15:51.28
my dad was like
whatever she wants.
00:15:51.31\00:15:54.02
And they would ask questions
and they all will look at me,
00:15:54.05\00:15:57.39
whatever she wants.
00:15:57.42\00:15:58.89
Talking about
you. Talking about me.
00:15:58.92\00:16:00.26
Whatever I want to do.
00:16:00.29\00:16:02.02
Whatever she says, you all do.
00:16:02.06\00:16:04.13
Whatever, you know.
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.69
So everything I felt
like everything was on me.
00:16:05.73\00:16:09.03
So I couldn't break.
00:16:09.06\00:16:11.17
For the services did
you do your mother's hair?
00:16:11.20\00:16:13.40
No. No, but I...
00:16:13.44\00:16:14.77
You step back.
00:16:14.80\00:16:16.14
I did step back with
that, in fact my sister-in-law
00:16:16.17\00:16:18.27
had to make me step back from
00:16:18.31\00:16:19.77
because I also do
obituaries in program,
00:16:19.81\00:16:22.01
lot of desktop
publishing she said no,
00:16:22.04\00:16:24.28
you're not going to do that.
00:16:24.31\00:16:25.65
You gonna be a daughter.
00:16:25.68\00:16:27.02
Today, I'm going to
be your daughter today.
00:16:27.05\00:16:28.38
I didn't sing for her funeral.
00:16:28.42\00:16:30.55
But just-- but what I did,
00:16:30.59\00:16:32.65
I gave her one of my
dresses that she loved,
00:16:32.69\00:16:35.16
and I did have
them put that on her
00:16:35.19\00:16:37.53
and but yeah...
00:16:37.56\00:16:38.93
Did you make that? No.
00:16:38.96\00:16:40.83
She sows also beautifully,
00:16:40.86\00:16:43.33
wedding coordinator
and just everything.
00:16:43.37\00:16:45.73
Oh, she can cook and bake.
00:16:45.77\00:16:47.94
My goodness, I
directed this wedding
00:16:47.97\00:16:50.51
and when I do
weddings, I call on Joanne,
00:16:50.54\00:16:52.84
and she did this
beautiful arrangements
00:16:52.87\00:16:55.24
of all the desserts.
00:16:55.28\00:16:56.61
Remember that
wedding? I remember.
00:16:56.64\00:16:57.98
And it was absolutely fad
00:16:58.01\00:16:59.48
and the wedding
cake was unbelievable,
00:16:59.51\00:17:01.78
delicious, Joanne made that.
00:17:01.82\00:17:03.69
So just multitalented
and we just went to a wedding
00:17:03.72\00:17:07.29
that Joanne coordinated,
00:17:07.32\00:17:08.66
but as she was
in the wedding too.
00:17:08.69\00:17:10.99
And that was a
beautiful wedding.
00:17:11.03\00:17:13.50
That's almost like
a release, you know,
00:17:13.53\00:17:18.07
that do you do so
many things, you know,
00:17:18.10\00:17:21.24
it's like a cover,
as you are indicating,
00:17:21.27\00:17:23.97
you know, you were involved,
couldn't cry, you know, but...
00:17:24.01\00:17:27.08
I couldn't break down.
00:17:27.11\00:17:28.44
You couldn't
break down 'cause...
00:17:28.48\00:17:29.81
I don't have time to break down.
00:17:29.84\00:17:31.18
You were involved in
all these different things,
00:17:31.21\00:17:32.55
you know, but when you
really came to the point
00:17:32.58\00:17:36.38
where you had to release,
you recognized that to God
00:17:36.42\00:17:42.12
delivering a message to
you that you had to go to him
00:17:42.16\00:17:45.53
straightforward, you know,
00:17:45.56\00:17:47.76
without any other distractions.
00:17:47.80\00:17:49.70
He wanted you to
connect with him.
00:17:49.73\00:17:52.00
And how did you feel
at that moment, you know,
00:17:52.03\00:17:54.37
when you did connect?
00:17:54.40\00:17:55.90
I'm telling you, it
was-- and I understand,
00:17:55.94\00:17:59.54
I understand what people say
00:17:59.57\00:18:02.64
that you're in
the bosom of Jesus
00:18:02.68\00:18:05.28
because that's how I felt.
00:18:05.31\00:18:06.72
I felt like I was,
00:18:06.75\00:18:08.08
I felt literally
like he'd wrapped me up
00:18:08.12\00:18:11.92
and I was just
in his chest crying,
00:18:11.95\00:18:14.22
just in His bosom just crying.
00:18:14.26\00:18:16.12
I mean because I had developed
00:18:16.16\00:18:20.20
high blood
pressure and diabetes.
00:18:20.23\00:18:22.56
What? After my mother passed.
00:18:22.60\00:18:24.00
What?
00:18:24.03\00:18:25.37
Never, never had any
issues with that, never.
00:18:25.40\00:18:29.54
And then up until last-- Well,
00:18:29.57\00:18:32.14
last year they were
getting ready to take me off
00:18:32.17\00:18:34.88
of all the medicine
and then my dad passed.
00:18:34.91\00:18:38.11
And then your dad
passed. So it flared up again.
00:18:38.15\00:18:40.42
Okay. Mercy.
00:18:40.45\00:18:42.65
Yeah. So...
00:18:42.68\00:18:44.02
Was there a difference
in the way you responded,
00:18:44.05\00:18:47.42
you know, when
your mother passed
00:18:47.46\00:18:49.32
and your dad passed?
00:18:49.36\00:18:50.69
I was a daddy's girl. Okay.
00:18:50.73\00:18:52.06
Yes, she was. I
was a daddy's girl.
00:18:52.09\00:18:54.53
So that was, that was hard.
00:18:54.56\00:18:58.27
That was really,
really, really, really hard.
00:18:58.30\00:19:01.20
And with my dad, I
was really on the road
00:19:01.24\00:19:05.67
because now it was
just my brother there
00:19:05.71\00:19:08.81
taking care of my dad
00:19:08.84\00:19:10.28
and he had a
stroke and gone to rehab
00:19:10.31\00:19:15.58
and had come home
00:19:15.62\00:19:17.22
and but they found
an area in his brain
00:19:17.25\00:19:20.26
that was inoperable
00:19:20.29\00:19:21.86
and they said that he
would continue to have strokes
00:19:21.89\00:19:24.76
and he would--
00:19:24.79\00:19:26.13
if he had surgery, he would die.
00:19:26.16\00:19:28.20
He wouldn't make it.
00:19:28.23\00:19:29.56
He wouldn't make it
through the surgery.
00:19:29.60\00:19:30.93
So that was-- that
was really, really hard.
00:19:30.97\00:19:35.24
So I was on the road a lot then
00:19:35.27\00:19:37.17
because I didn't want my brother
00:19:37.21\00:19:38.64
to have to deal with that.
00:19:38.67\00:19:41.11
My youngest
brother lives in Toronto.
00:19:41.14\00:19:43.68
And he is one who does
not deal with that very well.
00:19:43.71\00:19:48.78
His thing is, I will give
you what you need, you know,
00:19:48.82\00:19:54.22
and you know, he
loves so we don't push him.
00:19:54.26\00:19:56.83
We don't push him.
00:19:56.86\00:19:58.19
We know that if could
deal with it he would be there.
00:19:58.23\00:20:00.93
We just kept him
up on information.
00:20:00.96\00:20:03.47
But I would go to
Chicago and help my brother
00:20:03.50\00:20:06.13
with my dad a lot.
00:20:06.17\00:20:07.74
So when you were doing this,
00:20:07.77\00:20:09.10
I mean as you are at
church most of the time.
00:20:09.14\00:20:11.97
That was
always, I mean sometimes
00:20:12.01\00:20:13.34
I would drive down Saturday,
00:20:13.38\00:20:14.88
come back Monday, drive down
00:20:14.91\00:20:17.05
because or drive down Monday,
00:20:17.08\00:20:18.85
come back Wednesday
00:20:18.88\00:20:20.35
and schedule appointments around
00:20:20.38\00:20:22.35
you know, schedule
my work appointments
00:20:22.38\00:20:24.05
around all of that
00:20:24.09\00:20:25.69
because sometimes
I needed to be there
00:20:25.72\00:20:27.16
during the week to take care
of business from my brother.
00:20:27.19\00:20:31.19
Sometimes I would take a train,
00:20:31.23\00:20:32.83
so that I wouldn't
have to drive if I was tired
00:20:32.86\00:20:35.06
or so it was a
lot, it was stressful.
00:20:35.10\00:20:40.20
And especially when he
started having the strokes
00:20:40.24\00:20:42.40
after that first one.
00:20:42.44\00:20:44.87
You could see the decline.
00:20:44.91\00:20:46.88
And we knew it, we
knew that the time was short
00:20:46.91\00:20:51.55
because I didn't
want my dad to suffer
00:20:51.58\00:20:53.28
and I pray that my
dad would not suffer
00:20:53.31\00:20:55.78
and he will not be hooked up
00:20:55.82\00:20:58.42
and he didn't want that either.
00:20:58.45\00:20:59.92
Okay.
00:20:59.95\00:21:01.29
So during this
time it was really busy
00:21:01.32\00:21:04.13
and we had women's
retreat in Wisconsin
00:21:04.16\00:21:07.13
and then after that I had a gown
00:21:07.16\00:21:11.47
that I had to finish
up for this lady and so,
00:21:11.50\00:21:14.80
you know, I said, Lord, I
hope it doesn't sound selfish
00:21:14.84\00:21:17.37
because I knew and I said,
if you give me two more weeks
00:21:17.41\00:21:22.11
so because I can't
leave these people hang here.
00:21:22.14\00:21:24.35
So you had a feeling,
00:21:24.38\00:21:26.28
a sense that it was coming soon.
00:21:26.31\00:21:28.62
I did.
00:21:28.65\00:21:30.05
And he gave me two
more weeks till the day.
00:21:30.09\00:21:33.86
What? Yes.
00:21:33.89\00:21:36.09
So you have not
'cause you ask not.
00:21:36.12\00:21:38.83
Because I couldn't leave--
00:21:38.86\00:21:40.20
I couldn't leave
these people hang here
00:21:40.23\00:21:41.66
and that's how I felt,
00:21:41.70\00:21:43.03
but he gave two
more weeks till the day.
00:21:43.06\00:21:45.07
So you weren't with your father?
00:21:45.10\00:21:46.43
We were with my
father. When he passed.
00:21:46.47\00:21:48.44
We all were in his room
00:21:48.47\00:21:49.80
when they took him
off the ventilator.
00:21:49.84\00:21:52.14
And we got there on
Friday and they told us
00:21:52.17\00:21:55.04
that there was
no brain function.
00:21:55.08\00:21:57.15
But it was funny
that when I got there...
00:21:57.18\00:22:03.92
And I said, "Dad, I'm here."
00:22:03.95\00:22:06.09
He started shaking.
00:22:06.12\00:22:07.52
And like he was trying to,
trying to get up as toughen
00:22:07.56\00:22:10.53
and the nurses looked
and, you know, I told him,
00:22:10.56\00:22:13.96
"Okay, calm down, calm down."
00:22:14.00\00:22:16.13
And I just
started rubbing his hair
00:22:16.16\00:22:18.10
and he just calmed right down.
00:22:18.13\00:22:19.97
And the nurses were like,
"There's no brain function."
00:22:20.00\00:22:24.87
And so, you know, he just--
seriously, he just relaxed.
00:22:24.91\00:22:32.61
And so we met with the doctors,
00:22:32.65\00:22:35.78
all of us met with
the doctors on Saturday
00:22:35.82\00:22:39.02
and they took
him off, they said,
00:22:39.05\00:22:40.56
they're going to take him
off the life support on Sunday.
00:22:40.59\00:22:43.16
And they took him off
life support at 2 o'clock
00:22:43.19\00:22:47.50
on that Sunday.
00:22:47.53\00:22:49.26
And we stayed
near the whole time
00:22:49.30\00:22:52.40
and he left
about 30 minutes later.
00:22:52.43\00:22:55.90
Hmm. Yeah.
00:22:55.94\00:22:57.97
And that was, that was
hard, that was-- that was rough.
00:22:58.01\00:23:02.04
That was really
rough. I'm telling you.
00:23:02.08\00:23:04.68
Did you get a
opportunity to grieve, you know?
00:23:04.71\00:23:08.48
You know, I thank God
for my sister-in-law Pam.
00:23:08.52\00:23:14.29
She really was
there. She really was there.
00:23:14.32\00:23:18.46
My oldest brother,
you know, he was, okay,
00:23:18.49\00:23:20.96
look out to this
doctor, that doctor.
00:23:21.00\00:23:22.73
And you know, we have
to tell him just relax,
00:23:22.76\00:23:25.40
everything is going to work out.
00:23:25.43\00:23:28.60
And thank God that
they really stepped up
00:23:28.64\00:23:31.47
because I told them
00:23:31.51\00:23:32.84
that I couldn't do
this by myself this time.
00:23:32.87\00:23:34.91
You can't leave
everything on me.
00:23:34.94\00:23:36.88
It was too much.
That was too much.
00:23:36.91\00:23:39.05
And what was the timeframe
00:23:39.08\00:23:40.42
between your
mother and your father?
00:23:40.45\00:23:41.78
Almost three
years. Three years apart.
00:23:41.82\00:23:43.65
Almost three
years, so it's close.
00:23:43.69\00:23:45.49
And the church
family was there for you?
00:23:45.52\00:23:46.92
Oh, my goodness, I was shocked,
00:23:46.96\00:23:48.29
about whole bus
load came up to Chicago.
00:23:48.32\00:23:50.73
No. Really.
00:23:50.76\00:23:52.09
Yeah. Yeah, for the funeral.
00:23:52.13\00:23:54.20
And it was nice. It was nice.
00:23:54.23\00:23:58.30
Yeah, but that's,
00:23:58.33\00:23:59.67
that's your
parents are the hardest,
00:23:59.70\00:24:02.57
you know, they say children,
and I know children are,
00:24:02.60\00:24:05.57
I know that but...
00:24:05.61\00:24:07.81
Yeah.
00:24:07.84\00:24:09.18
I felt like my dad
was my support system.
00:24:09.21\00:24:11.41
He was always there for me.
00:24:11.45\00:24:13.28
I could talk to him
about anything, you know,
00:24:13.31\00:24:17.02
and he would listen
whether he agree with it or not.
00:24:17.05\00:24:19.72
He may haven't even
agree with everything
00:24:19.75\00:24:21.62
but he would listen.
00:24:21.66\00:24:23.09
And there were times when
I-- I wasn't in the church,
00:24:23.12\00:24:27.66
I had left the church.
00:24:27.70\00:24:29.16
And my mother
and I weren't talking
00:24:29.20\00:24:31.73
and he used to
write me little letters,
00:24:31.77\00:24:36.07
you know, I love you,
you're still my daughter.
00:24:36.10\00:24:39.01
You know, that I
don't like your lifestyle
00:24:39.04\00:24:41.64
but you're still
the child of God,
00:24:41.68\00:24:43.78
and I still love you.
00:24:43.81\00:24:45.18
And just send me
little cards and stuff.
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.32
And I know she
didn't know, you know,
00:24:47.35\00:24:49.25
because she would have been made
00:24:49.28\00:24:51.35
that he was
communicating with me
00:24:51.39\00:24:52.89
but he was my rock.
00:24:52.92\00:24:55.22
He was very intelligent man.
00:24:55.26\00:24:56.99
And I know he wasn't perfect.
00:24:57.03\00:24:59.03
You know, I know
that, but that was my dad.
00:24:59.06\00:25:03.93
That was my dad. He was...
00:25:03.97\00:25:09.60
And I remember, I remember
00:25:09.64\00:25:11.27
you being a little girl at Burns
00:25:11.31\00:25:13.21
when Pastor Tolson was installed
00:25:13.24\00:25:15.24
and I'll never forget that.
00:25:15.28\00:25:16.88
We had such a good team lecture.
00:25:16.91\00:25:19.21
We had Marshall T.
00:25:19.25\00:25:20.58
Kelly, we had, you
know, Elder, Pastor Tolson.
00:25:20.62\00:25:25.59
We had the Nelsons,
Sis Alice Drawbridge,
00:25:25.62\00:25:29.89
I mean growing up in a
church where there was support
00:25:29.92\00:25:32.96
and love and people around
you that you could, you know,
00:25:32.99\00:25:36.90
role models that
you can count on.
00:25:36.93\00:25:39.43
So coming back to the church,
00:25:39.47\00:25:42.10
I know it made
your father very happy.
00:25:42.14\00:25:43.91
He was. He was, he was ecstatic.
00:25:43.94\00:25:48.68
Look, in the next
minute and 17 seconds,
00:25:48.71\00:25:53.31
what could you say to
our listening audience
00:25:53.35\00:25:56.75
to help them deal with grief
such as what you've dealt with?
00:25:56.79\00:26:01.62
Talk about it.
Don't keep it inside.
00:26:01.66\00:26:06.43
Like I'll say it
again I've cleared up again
00:26:06.46\00:26:08.46
with my blood
pressure and diabetes,
00:26:08.50\00:26:12.60
and also develop sciatica
00:26:12.63\00:26:15.67
and for some
reason a herniated disc.
00:26:15.70\00:26:17.94
One morning I just
woke up and couldn't walk.
00:26:17.97\00:26:22.48
So talk to someone,
00:26:22.51\00:26:24.01
I'm in therapy right
now dealing with the loss.
00:26:24.05\00:26:29.12
And so many people once they
experience devastating loses,
00:26:29.15\00:26:34.19
they do, they make
rash decisions and...
00:26:34.22\00:26:39.59
one thing my therapist
told me was don't do anything
00:26:39.63\00:26:43.93
because I was
ready to get divorced.
00:26:43.97\00:26:46.07
I was ready-- I was
ready to go out back hard.
00:26:46.10\00:26:48.64
I was going to move. Everything.
00:26:48.67\00:26:52.21
She said, don't leave the house,
00:26:52.24\00:26:55.21
don't back hard,
and forget about that,
00:26:55.24\00:26:57.95
forget about movement...
00:26:57.98\00:27:01.08
until till we get
some issues together
00:27:01.12\00:27:04.02
but lot of people do things
00:27:04.05\00:27:05.89
when they're grieving
because you're reaching,
00:27:05.92\00:27:09.99
you're looking for
something, your, you know,
00:27:10.03\00:27:13.29
and you're looking
for something to satisfy
00:27:13.33\00:27:16.30
or to make you feel better,
00:27:16.33\00:27:18.10
but you got to
heal from the inside.
00:27:18.13\00:27:20.94
And our churches need to develop
00:27:20.97\00:27:22.30
some grief counseling,
00:27:22.34\00:27:25.84
maybe some support groups,
00:27:25.87\00:27:29.31
so that we know, 'cause I know
00:27:29.34\00:27:31.21
that I'm not the only one
00:27:31.25\00:27:32.58
that's going through this.
00:27:32.61\00:27:33.95
I don't feel alone in that area,
00:27:33.98\00:27:35.88
but we need to bring
those people together,
00:27:35.92\00:27:38.39
so that we can,
so that we can heal.
00:27:38.42\00:27:40.86
Because until we
heal, a lot of times
00:27:40.89\00:27:43.49
when we don't go for ourselves
00:27:43.53\00:27:45.23
and we can't help other people
like we want to or should.
00:27:45.26\00:27:49.16
Oh, wow, this has been amazing.
00:27:49.20\00:27:52.40
I just want to thank Joanne
for coming, my dear friend.
00:27:52.43\00:27:55.30
But I just want to
say that we can make it
00:27:55.34\00:27:59.04
and God can continue
to help us making it work.
00:27:59.07\00:28:01.68
Amen. Yes, He can.
00:28:01.71\00:28:03.04
And you have Joanne.
00:28:03.08\00:28:04.41
I'm Dr. Kim Logan
Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:28:04.45\00:28:06.28
We want to thank Joanne Tolson
00:28:06.31\00:28:07.88
for being with us
on Making It Work.
00:28:07.92\00:28:09.82
God bless. God bless.
00:28:09.85\00:28:11.75