Participants: Arthur Nowlin (Host), Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Leon Jones
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000042A
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00:01 My name is Arthur Nowlin
00:02 and welcome to "Making It Work." 00:37 Hi, I'm, Arthur Nowlin 00:39 and as you can see I'm without Kim today. 00:42 Well, we have a special guest and our special guest-- 00:46 his name is Leon Jones. 00:48 And, Leon, 00:49 we are so happy to have you here on Making It Work. 00:53 It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 00:55 Well, today what we want to do 00:57 is just talk about who Leon Jones is 01:00 and can you help us by giving us some insight. 01:03 Well, you've already said I'm Leon Jones. 01:05 I'm from Detroit, Michigan, grew up in Detroit area 01:07 but lot of people don't know I was south in formal of years. 01:12 Meaning from birth to may be seven or eight-- 01:18 What part of the south? 01:19 My parents are from a little town 01:21 that is not even on the map any more Alma, Georgia 01:24 surrounded that not too far from Waycross-- 01:28 I can remember vividly we had animals, we had a farm. 01:32 Really? 01:34 You know, I've always been adventurous 01:35 into the falling and hopping. 01:39 When I come home one day and I was full of mud 01:41 but yeah we-- I mean, we had chickens 01:43 and it was just so very, very small town. 01:46 I was telling my wife that this morning 01:48 that I want to take her down there. 01:50 She may not want to come back, you know. 01:53 I beg my people wanting that town, that's so small. 01:56 But you feeling a heart pain and that's significant 01:58 because you still remember that 02:00 after all these years, you know. 02:02 We falling in heart pain of life, 02:04 you know, but thank God for our Savior. 02:06 He can clean us up. Oh, that's great. 02:08 That's good, good segue. Yeah. 02:10 Well, you know, what is it that-- 02:12 what are some of the things that you do right now? 02:15 Well, most people know me for musically. 02:19 A lot of people don't know me personally. 02:21 They I guess, the music they think they know the person 02:26 but I'm a family man, I love my children, 02:30 I love my wife and I love people. 02:36 I've had a second chance in life 02:38 and so I relish the fact 02:41 that the Creator has offered me the opportunity 02:44 to use the ability, that He has entrusted to me 02:47 to have impact... music and I'm just a strong believer 02:51 that whatever ability one has 02:54 when you connect with the Creator, 02:56 Creator He expects you to use it 02:59 to be impactful where ever you find yourself. 03:01 And so... 03:04 I love to travel, I'm a runner, I love staying in shape, 03:09 I love reading and I love the philosophy 03:13 that, "He who reads the most leads the most." 03:15 All right, that's great. So I enjoy reading. 03:17 Tell us about the second chance. 03:19 What did you really mean? 03:21 What I mean was... 03:23 as most children sometime when they are over there, 03:26 as they grow up they see role models 03:29 that are real role models and I wasn't any different. 03:34 I was in a big city, in this case Detroit 03:36 and what I deem success was guys hustling on the street, 03:42 that type thing. 03:44 Although I was, you know, singing in the... 03:47 you know, music world I found myself 03:50 venturing off into some things and ended up in trouble 03:54 that landed me in prison 03:56 at a very, very early age for arm robbery 04:02 and was sentenced to 10 to 15 years. 04:05 And upon arriving there 04:08 I've realized quickly that in my mind 04:11 I didn't belong there 04:14 but I took advantage of that opportunity to find out 04:16 as you asked me earlier earlier who am I, 04:20 and I think most people are afraid of themselves. 04:22 And so I began to delve inside myself 04:25 with the help of God to find out 04:27 that when I was in His image 04:29 so that's saying a lot until He gave me dominion. 04:35 And I began to weigh those things 04:39 and to say to myself what are my controls are. 04:42 Where am I going? 04:44 Where am I heading, existing in and of itself 04:46 and so when answering those questions 04:50 I was able to take responsibility, 04:54 ownership of that wrongs that I've done 04:59 and build on that and say to myself, 05:01 once I was released I would have impact 05:05 and God has afforded me to do that. 05:07 It must have been pretty devastating though 05:10 when you first entered into prison during that time, 05:13 you know, as a young man 05:15 and that was kind of a harsh sentence 05:18 that you would-- you were facing at that point. 05:21 How long did you stay there? 05:22 Five years. 05:24 I was released on a special parole. 05:25 Excellent. 05:26 They over turned my case against on good behavior 05:29 and at that time they had 05:31 what they call the parole time track. 05:33 I had to go through a job rehab, 05:35 I had to learn a trade with my hands 05:39 and that trade is welding. 05:41 I learned MIG, TIG and Arc. Me too. 05:43 Yes, and... 05:45 then I went to some other program 05:47 and there I went back to school and so they realize 05:53 and counselor, he says, man, you don't belong here. 05:56 I want to transfer you. 05:58 And so a thought to transfer not knowing 06:01 that God hand was there and as soon as I arrived in 06:04 Muskegon the gentlemen said 06:06 that we're gonna submit a proposal 06:09 to get you out of here. 06:11 And so it went through, I was released 06:15 and I have been back now in a charge. 06:20 I've gone back to encourage men and women across country-- 06:23 A prison ministry? Yes. 06:24 Okay. 06:26 You know, well, how did your family 06:27 handle this situation while you were gone? 06:29 Of course, they were devastated and I think 06:33 when I look back over it my dad and I-- 06:36 we had a tumultuous relationship... 06:42 and I think that drew us closer to one and other. 06:45 I mean, I didn't realize it but, you know, he visited me, 06:50 he didn't-- I mean, he told that he love me, 06:55 that I was a son and, you know, all those things 06:58 and that that counts 07:00 when you are in a situation like that. 07:02 And so I have very good support on both sides. 07:06 Excellent. 07:07 It's really a specialty when you have 07:09 the support of your dad, 07:11 you know, especially after making a few mistakes 07:15 and then to have him come in and say, I love you. 07:18 That must have really meant a lot to you? 07:20 Right. 07:21 And he-- they got me one of the best lawyers 07:23 who is now deceased and... 07:26 in line one of my call they did what they could do 07:30 and, you know, those things go a long way for a young man 07:37 that was in my situation. 07:39 So you indicated that you at different times 07:44 will go back to the prisons but to minister 07:47 to some of the people that are there now. 07:49 You know, how do you feel when you do something like that? 07:51 I mean, you can put yourself in that situation. 07:54 Well, initially, you know, it brought joy to me 07:57 because I-- I was in that situation 08:01 but then as you continue do it over years 08:04 for me it became to depressing because when I was seeing guys 08:08 repeat offenders I mean, when I say repeat offenders 08:12 I'm talking about men, you know, 40 some 50-years-old 08:18 and has made a career out of, 08:21 you know, they become institutionalize. 08:23 Some people can't break their cycle 08:25 so, I feel fortunate that I was not able to go back 08:30 and they say, man, I really appreciate what you did 08:33 and how you continue to reach out to us so 08:36 and we've done this all over country. 08:37 There was a gentleman by the name of Chuck Colson 08:40 who was involved in Watergate and he started 08:44 what we know now as Prison Fellowship 08:47 and he started the program Angel Tree 08:49 where they bring gifts to the men's children, 08:53 men and women children who are incarcerated. 08:55 And so-- I mean, we go all over the world 08:58 with this type thing 09:00 and what I like about Chuck Colson is 09:01 he will bring in high profile entertainers and athletes, 09:05 Michael Jordon, people don't know that 09:06 about Michael Jordon but he will go to prisons. 09:09 Mike Singletary, 09:12 some of the San Francisco 49ers and Dallas Cowboys 09:16 and we would play basketball 09:18 against some of the inmates there 09:20 and he had all, I mean, high level entertainers. 09:24 I mean, we had a, we would have a great time. 09:27 So it was like a learning experience. 09:29 You also talked about... 09:33 the trade of learning particular trade, 09:36 how to be a welder and going to back to school. 09:39 Now that seems to be something right now 09:41 that's diminishing with the many of our prisons-- 09:45 at this point. 09:46 That for longer, viable as it was then. 09:52 I mean, they allowed you to go to college. 09:54 I know who is a friend of mine he is out now, 09:57 he is returning citizens. 09:59 I mean, he had, he obtained his masters degree there 10:03 and he has his own business, runs a floor shop. 10:08 So... 10:10 yes, to answer you question that's no longer there. 10:13 And so if a person doesn't understand 10:18 one, who they are in God, 10:20 two, they don't get some sort of education 10:24 and when I say education I'm talking about... 10:27 understanding who you are 10:29 because there is two kinds of education 10:31 right kind and wrong kind. 10:34 And so I, you know, I encourage people 10:38 to first of all, understand who you are 10:42 and that's when you understand 10:43 that nothing in this world can stop you, put yourself. 10:47 Absolutely. 10:49 Because I've heard of, when you said 10:50 it's two types kinds of education, 10:53 I had a gentlemen that informed that he didn't know 10:55 how to steal a car until he went to prison. 10:57 They sure taught him how to do those things, you know. 11:01 But your mindset that was a really excellent point. 11:04 You have to really be prepared to have the right frame of mind 11:08 and apparently you did, 11:10 you know, and went to support your family 11:11 that was really meaningful. 11:14 Tell me about the music career, you know, what happened there? 11:18 Well, I think the music career and that was just segue. 11:20 Music career is like in an angle you have to be focused. 11:23 I mean, there are a lot of people that didn't attain, 11:25 well they are not focused. 11:27 And in the music world like sports... 11:31 you are pampered from the time you get in 11:35 until the time you are out and so you, I mean, 11:38 you have lawyers to protect you even if you get in trouble. 11:44 They make those things go away 11:46 because they have an investment in you 11:49 and I don't know if you remember 11:50 the act of Robert Downey Jr. 11:52 and I have to tell their story. 11:54 I mean, he was on drugs 11:57 but because of the amount of investment 12:00 that they had in him. 12:01 I mean, they cleaned him up and the rest is history. 12:04 And so, I mean, that's what happened to me, 12:08 that's what happened to most people 12:09 in the entertainment. 12:10 You-- but you have to be focused 12:14 because you have so much coming at you, 12:17 all kinds of people hang on us 12:20 and you don't know the difference between the two 12:23 because your focus is that hour or that 30 minute say, 12:31 you know, and people drive the entertainment as meaning, 12:35 you know, the people saying this, 12:38 you know, so you don't-- in my case 12:41 I will never turn to people the way you stand and sign on 12:43 you talk to people. 12:46 And people by that thinking that they know you, 12:48 so there you will be in a city or in a town, 12:52 they will show up at hotel, 12:54 they find out where you are in the parties 12:57 and so there is and if you are not focused 12:59 you get sucked in to the things that you see on TV 13:03 happening to a lot of entertainers. 13:05 Because you know, when-- 13:06 as you were talking about that one of the things 13:08 I was thinking is that it would be easy for you 13:12 to relapse, you know, and to that environment 13:15 even though, you know, it's not say breaking the law 13:19 but you attract people that do break the law 13:22 and you attract a certain I guess, 13:25 following that could easily lead you astray 13:29 especially someone that's and trying 13:31 to straighten their lives up. 13:34 You see, first of all, 13:36 and that's why I say, it's imperative. 13:38 You know, this in our-- during our interview 13:40 first thing I said was understanding who you are. 13:44 When I'm understanding I'm in God's image 13:48 that right there tells me 13:50 there are certain lines I can't cross. 13:53 And so with that in my there are certain things 13:57 you are not gonna do, not that they are wrong in 13:59 and of themselves but the appearance of them. 14:02 And so you have to be careful 14:06 that you don't get pulled into everything 14:10 that comes with that. 14:12 You know, because people, whether it's gospel music 14:14 or secular music people are there 14:18 and they catering to you and let's face it out 14:20 and now the most people... 14:23 if you never had that happened to you, 14:26 I mean, you like that, you like going places 14:29 where you step off a plane there is a sign saying, 14:32 Arthur Nowlin, well, I'm transportation. 14:34 You like when you walk into a dressing room, 14:37 people putting your shoes on. 14:39 I mean, but who wouldn't-- but if you are not careful 14:42 you begin to believe that that's who you are. 14:45 Well, definitely no doubt about it. 14:48 Right, and so you get sucked into it. 14:50 You know, and as you say to be grounded in Lord, 14:54 you know, is really significant to avoid that trap 15:00 that Satan has for you. 15:01 You know, trying to pull you back in. 15:04 Another thing, one of the things that I see 15:08 is the different John was-- John was using. 15:12 You know, and use it, you know, so I mean, 15:15 you seen a transition, you know, how do you compare 15:19 the gospel music today well, 15:22 say the gospel music that you grew up with? 15:25 Well, you know, that's a argument, 15:28 that's age old and here again you have to know who you are 15:33 because at the end of the day 15:35 I see chorus made up of same three notes. 15:39 If you play at a church, 15:41 you know, if you play it in a club. 15:43 So my point is, is what I do with the gift 15:48 that God gave me-- you know, how do I take that 15:51 and be impactful in the audience. 15:54 Like the audience is that we play the last 25 years 15:59 well, predominately one white two... 16:04 there were people who 16:06 church was not a regular thing for them 16:11 and so we find ourselves, in some cases 16:14 we stood in front of 80,000 people at the Silverdome, 16:19 then in other cases where you stood in front of 800. 16:22 So... 16:25 you have to be kind of say, of your calling. 16:29 And so I avoid, you know, this argument about 16:33 well, that's not gospel music, you are not doing God's will 16:36 because one, I was not there 16:40 when God told this person what to do. 16:44 Because you can sing 16:45 what you hear people arguing about. 16:48 You can sing "Amazing Grace" all day 16:50 and be so far from God. 16:52 So what's the difference? 16:54 On the other hand you will stand out there and sing, 16:56 "What's going on, my brother" and attract people 17:00 and once you attract them and you say 17:02 it was the Creator who gave me this idea. 17:05 Well, I've seen that way, I mean, with your music 17:10 it seems to be upbeat a little Marvin Gaye, 17:14 you know, or Temptations, you know, and I'm sure 17:17 you must have experienced a lot of different ridicule, 17:21 you know, from different people. 17:22 Yeah, I just at an interview the other day 17:24 and the guy and Mason was there well, interviewing me 17:28 and this whole crew is like, man... 17:32 and it was a guy that I had been trying to touch base 17:34 with just to invest in what I was doing 17:39 and he stopped the interview, he said, 17:40 look, this guy has been chasing me ten years 17:42 and I never knew that his music was like this. 17:47 He says, man, here is my cell phone number, call me. 17:49 We need to talk. 17:50 He said, man, this is straight R&B. 17:54 He says, I know, you catching flight from the church, 17:56 I say, we are from the black church. 17:59 He said, man, this stuff is good. 18:01 So from the time that we started singing 18:06 we were catching that kind of flag but I knew in my heart 18:11 that God had given us His ministry 18:14 and so we continue to deal with it. 18:17 Was it painful? 18:18 yes, it was because we've been playing and singing 18:21 and people take the microphone from me. 18:23 Took the mike from you. Yeah. 18:25 And say, you know, this is the devil's music 18:28 but they didn't realize they did more damage 18:31 to o the people in the audience than they did to us 18:33 because I mean, we later went to the next stage. 18:36 That's what I was about to say. 18:38 It didn't stop you, you kept going. 18:41 And so, and I think it's, I think to say... 18:46 person's upbringing because you and I can't put that, 18:53 you know, and that's what we try to do. 18:55 Well, God is much bigger than we can ever imagine 18:58 and so we... 18:59 And so you keep going and you keep going. 19:02 You know, this brings us to the point now 19:05 where are you with your music? 19:08 But well, actually before we even ask that question 19:11 25 years of resurrection what happened to, you know? 19:14 Well... 19:17 that was a good time, 19:18 you know, that was a foundation point for me, 19:21 meaning God used that for me to establish relationships 19:25 all over the world because He had a plan 19:28 beyond resurrection with me. 19:32 And so I heard behind the music 19:35 25 years ducking the call of preaching. 19:40 And so... 19:44 situations occur where I found myself, 19:48 it was me and I was burned out from touring, 19:53 you know, frustrated from other things 19:55 that was going on and my dad kept saying, 19:59 God is waiting on you, Leon, but you don't do. 20:02 And so I really didn't know what to do 20:05 and I just started writing and recording songs, 20:08 different stuff, and a friend of mine, 20:10 she just started playing the songs, recorded. 20:14 And people was like, who is that? 20:16 So they started buying the record and I, 20:18 you know, God say, Leon, this is it. 20:20 And so I picked that up and started, 20:25 you know, just doing the solo act and speaking 20:30 and it's working, man. 20:32 Yeah, it really is. 20:34 So that's what I'm seeking with, 20:36 you know, and so that's where-- 20:37 But it must have been hard for you? 20:39 Oh, man, it was like a marriage, man. 20:43 Let's clear for us something 20:44 Resurrection was the singing group 20:46 that you was involved with. 20:47 Did you start that group or? Yeah. 20:49 Yeah, I had-- you know, I was the visionary for the group. 20:52 Okay. 20:53 And it started with men who were incarcerated 20:57 and ex-drug abusers 20:58 that's how we came over the name, Resurrection. 21:00 Excellent. Excellent. 21:02 Then we worked with Kirk Franklin, Fred Hammond, 21:06 Steven Curtis Chapman, Kathy Troccoli, 21:10 East To West, I mean, everybody. 21:12 So it really, it took you all over United States 21:15 and outside of United States as well. 21:17 Yeah. Yeah. That was powerful. 21:18 Brought me some great opportunity and relationships 21:24 that I'm utilizing right now today. 21:26 Okay. 21:27 So back to the question, cry to death, 21:31 tell us about where your ministry is now 21:34 because, because I was driving down the Boulevard, 21:37 it must have been coming from Belle Isle, 21:40 you know, in Detroit 21:41 and at one point Kim and I we were-- 21:43 as we were driving by 21:44 we passed this church and I heard your voice 21:47 and I said, wait a minute, I know that voice 21:49 and you were preaching and singing. 21:51 At that point you were singing and we pulled over and stopped 21:54 then we came in and we came to see 21:58 what you were doing and it was powerful. 21:59 Man, you had this group of people out there 22:02 right on the steps, I mean. 22:04 And that's, that's my passion. 22:06 See I was... 22:09 I was on the way I was but I was backstage 22:12 with being the secular entertainers 22:15 and this guy, there is a group, a very prominent band 22:19 he walked that isles just beside and says, 22:21 man... 22:23 you must be an entertainer. 22:25 I said, how do you know? 22:27 He said, man, you still vibe, man. 22:29 He said, in your spirit you got it. 22:32 I'm saying how do you know? 22:33 He said, man, you still vibe, you know, catching that. 22:37 And so... 22:39 you know, I like people, I like to see people happy. 22:44 And so I try to use what has entrusted to me 22:48 to bring that out and everybody loves music. 22:51 Everybody. 22:52 And so I try to sing about current events, 22:56 you know, what's going on that's why-- 22:58 I mean, that's what Marvin Gaye, 23:00 that's what our records still bought. 23:03 You know, I mean, he took current events 23:06 and set music through it that everybody relate to it. 23:11 And it sound good, as well as you, you know. 23:13 And so that's what I do, I try to be observant 23:17 and Kirk say is by observation, 23:20 you know, you just write Bible is happening. 23:24 And people want to hear a story, 23:25 you know, and they enjoy 23:27 hearing a story of what somebody 23:29 it was down on the ground count it out 23:32 and then all of a sudden here you come right back up again 23:35 resurrected, you know. 23:37 That's powerful. 23:38 What about relationships along the way? 23:40 Oh, man, you make all kind of relationships 23:43 as we said earlier that people-- 23:45 One on one relationships. 23:46 Yeah, one on one relationship. 23:49 I'm currently man, I have-- 23:51 I think I have a best marriage in the world. 23:53 Excellent. 23:55 And God knows as better, you know, I said, 23:59 my dad when he first saw my wife he told me, 24:02 son, look, I've never been in your, like that. 24:07 He says, but... 24:10 that's the one when God has chosen you 24:13 and, you know, we think our parents 24:16 though mostly tell us but and he was right. 24:20 Even my mom, everybody that saw, and so... 24:25 I couldn't be, you know, happier. 24:28 And her name? Deborah. 24:30 We have two beautiful children, boys, 24:33 and God has who we say He is. 24:37 I mean, that I have come to know that 24:40 in a very, very significant way just in the past few months. 24:45 I mean, things are not going down. 24:48 You know, you know that's God. 24:50 So-- 24:51 Well, one of the things that I was thinking by 24:53 is you were talking about your marriage is, 24:57 what happens when Leon is down and you just, 25:00 you pull on that relationship between you and Deborah 25:03 or, you know, as it was going to, your knees and praying. 25:07 You know, but what motivates you? 25:11 When things are going down, when they are down for me 25:15 I try not to transmit it on to my family 25:20 but of course, she and I we can talk, 25:24 you know, and of course she listens, I listen 25:29 and you know, things begin to turn around and I think, 25:35 you know, when we talk about one on one relationships 25:37 people don't do enough of that. 25:39 We live in a world where we are busy, 25:41 we all have smartphones 25:44 and that we really don't communicate, you know. 25:48 It's easier to text somebody something 25:52 than they say it to their face. 25:54 You know, so and that's what people are into now 25:58 and so I like the, you know, the old school way. 26:02 You know, we say, honey, I love you 26:04 although I can text you 26:06 but I think people like that one on one. 26:09 And so that relationships are difficult. 26:12 I mean, you and your wife 26:13 you all are experts in that field. 26:15 I mean, that's why you see so many damage relationships, 26:18 people don't want to work that way. 26:19 Wow. It's work. 26:21 It's constant work, you know, and I can't put-- 26:25 I don't even want to go there so much where, you know. 26:27 You did, and I'm saying is the things 26:30 you never really think about. 26:32 You come in and you may squeeze it-- 26:34 There you go. 26:35 They may not do it that way. 26:37 I mean, you all get to going back and forth. 26:40 When you think about it then, 26:41 you know, why did I waste that in. 26:43 It was just toothpaste. 26:45 And so when people learn how to... 26:50 work on... 26:53 being the best person you could be 26:57 in out loving your slivering and other it works, man. 27:03 Let me ask you one final question 27:06 in a short time that we have. 27:07 We have about a minute. 27:10 What would you like to leave our listening audience 27:14 which to inspire them or to give them 27:19 a touch of who Leon really relies on? 27:23 Well, this one thing, this one caller 27:25 I ever professed in callers told me this, 27:29 God... 27:31 has forwarded man and woman a gift of salvation 27:35 so we can understand our limitations. 27:37 Amen. Say that again. 27:39 God has given man and woman the gift of salvation 27:44 so we could truly understand our own limitations. 27:47 Man, you are a preacher. 27:49 You are truly a preacher. 27:51 It's a blessing that Leon is here with us. 27:54 Leon, I want to thank you for being here. 27:57 You've been a truly a blessing for all of us 27:59 and I just want to encourage you 28:01 as you continue on in your ministry. 28:03 And I want to thank you the listening audience 28:06 for watching "Making It Work." |
Revised 2015-10-05