Participants: Arthur Nowlin (Host), Dr Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Ray Winns
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000033
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00:01 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:04 And welcome to "Making It Work." 00:39 When you think about individuals 00:41 who have been incarcerated 00:43 and people have gone to things Arthur, 00:46 what comes to mind is once they get out no more bars. 00:50 Don't want to go back. 00:51 In your experience and your work 00:53 with the federal bureau prison 00:56 and those who have been incarcerated, 00:58 no more bars, what comes to mind? 01:02 Determination, knowledge, 01:09 higher self-esteem and most importantly 01:13 a relationship with God to help them overcome 01:17 maybe some of the difficulties 01:19 that they may be-- may be experiencing. 01:22 But those who return back, 01:25 we have those who stay and say I'm never going back. 01:28 You know, those who go, come out 01:30 they can't make it in to going back. 01:33 I think some of the things that 01:35 may draw a person back to prison is that 01:38 they haven't come to a point 01:40 where they accept themselves and accept the things that 01:44 that has placed them in prison in the first place. 01:47 Oh, I see. 01:48 You know, and that becomes difficult 01:49 because what happens is a lot of times 01:52 they come out with the same havocs that got them in there. 01:58 They hang around some of the same people, 02:00 go back to the same environment. 02:02 So they are basically sending themselves up 02:05 if they have not made a decision, 02:07 a decision to change to their lifestyle. 02:10 So you see, do you see a lot of this return 02:13 in the process when you are working 02:15 with the men in the halfway houses? 02:17 We work with the program that is pretty successful. 02:20 Okay. 02:21 And you know, I'm really proud to be a part of that program 02:25 because the success rate 02:27 is higher than someone in prison 02:31 and coming out that may not have taken 02:34 that program and left them to a pint 02:37 where they had a void. 02:40 The program that I'm associated with offers knowledge, 02:45 offers regular therapy and encourages 02:52 the return-- returning offenders to 02:55 no matter what don't give up. 02:56 Use these tools 02:58 and it will make your life better. 03:00 I know, I believe God placed you there Arthur, for a reason 03:04 and He opened the door for you to be able to minister. 03:07 Well, why don't you introduce our guest 03:09 and how the two of you met? 03:11 And then I'll talk about how I met them later on. 03:14 No, well, definitely. 03:17 Ray and I have a standing relationship since 2008. 03:22 Yes. You know, 03:23 And what has happened Ray came to me 03:28 through the program that I just discussed 03:31 and he was willing to make those changes. 03:35 He came to me with a lot of determination, 03:39 focus and he was willing to go in a direction 03:44 that was gonna make him a better person, literally. 03:47 Oh, we want to welcome Ray Winns to our program. 03:50 Thank you for having me on your program. 03:52 Oh, God bless. 03:53 You are looking now good and desperate. 03:55 Prosperous. Prosperous. 03:56 He made me prosperous, placing God in me. 03:58 Yes, well, tell us how you came to meet Mr. Nowlin. 04:03 Well, he shared a little bit about that. 04:04 But tell us your testimony, 04:06 you know, as a little boy and how did you come to be, 04:10 the name of the program "No More Bars." 04:11 How did you end up going into prison, 04:15 coming out, going back, coming out. 04:17 Tell us our viewers your story. 04:21 Well, I was a third generation drug dealer. 04:23 I was born third generational. 04:25 My grandparents were drug dealers, 04:26 my parents were drug dealers. 04:28 And so from my early childhood memory 04:31 because of my environment that's all I wanted to be. 04:36 I was exposed to actually seeing drugs 04:38 being cooked up and distributed 04:40 by the time I was nine-years-old. 04:41 What's its like? 04:43 And one of the main factors of my life 04:45 was I never had ability to read. 04:49 I knew how to count but I didn't know how to read. 04:52 So we are going through life, 04:55 I never step foot in high school, 04:58 I was kicked out three public schools in eighth grade 05:00 because I was caught with a assault shotgun. 05:03 I founded a gang when I was 13-years-old. 05:06 So I didn't know how to identity my feelings 05:08 because I didn't had ability to read. 05:10 So I acted my feelings out. 05:13 Me and mother and I was talking about the day 05:15 and I was talking about my first experience of being 05:17 kicked out of school was in a first grade 05:20 because I threw a object at the teacher 05:23 and hit her on her head and my mother-- 05:25 and they kicked me out because they say 05:26 if she would have turned around 05:28 you could have hit her on her eye. 05:30 And again just going to the lifestyle 05:34 of drug dealers, my father was murdered 05:36 when I was nine-years-old on my grandmother's porch. 05:39 Prior to that I seen them this Saturday 05:41 receiving my money for my Easter suit, 05:45 instead of celebrating Easter I was mourning 05:47 my father being murdered on Easter Sunday. 05:49 Easter Sunday. 05:51 And I never celebrated Easter until about three years ago. 05:53 Wow. 05:54 But then someone had asked that I had to go, 05:56 so I actually when I first encountered you, 05:58 me and you discussed a lot about a lot of my hurts. 06:00 I didn't develop the ability to read until I was 21. 06:03 Twenty one. 06:04 Was incarcerated at the time? 06:05 Yes, I was incarcerated 06:07 And so just coming in the city of Detroit gang banging, 06:12 I was convicted of murder when I was 15-years-old. 06:15 Tried as a adult, 06:16 weighed as a adult sentenced as a juvenile. 06:20 The victim's mother and he was a innocent man 06:24 but the victim mother and his sister say 06:26 we understood the lifestyle that my son was living 06:29 and my brother was living and this is a kid. 06:32 There is not gonna be any rehabilitation 06:34 in a prison system forum. 06:36 Sentenced to as a juvenile, 06:39 go to juvenile the judge gave me five years. 06:43 I was out in three. 06:45 No rehabilitation 06:46 because I still didn't had ability to read. 06:49 So coming out when I'm 18, by the time I'm 19 06:54 I'm selling drugs again, because this was the lifestyle 06:56 that I was accustomed to from my parents. 07:00 At this time my mother had decided to change her life 07:03 around and give her life to Christ 07:04 but that wasn't something that I was willing to accept. 07:07 So I left my mother when I seeking this way. 07:10 So when I come home at the age of 18 07:14 I'm back selling drugs. 07:16 I'm going out of town selling drugs. 07:19 I was convicted over drug case in Lansing. 07:21 Spent a year in the country jail there 07:23 but still without the ability to be able to read. 07:27 So what I do, I come back home 07:29 I'm back selling drugs again to my same environment. 07:32 By this time I'm 20, 07:35 21 I was charged with kidnapping, 07:38 or drugs and injustice, drug trafficking. 07:41 And my daughter was-- her mom was pregnant 07:46 at the time and I was resort to my kidnapping 07:48 because I had to start trial on August 22nd 07:51 and my daughter was-- 07:52 mother was having a C-section August 22nd. 07:55 So I'm like either see my child born 07:58 or go and start trial. 07:59 So I bonded him out of the jail 08:02 and put them in a basement, tied them up 08:03 and went to see my daughter being born. 08:06 Okay, go back. You did what? 08:09 I went to-- I went bonded him out of jail 08:12 The witness? 08:14 The witness so he won't have to file-- 08:15 Against you? Against me. 08:17 Took him to the house, tied him up in a basement 08:20 and went to the hospital to see my daughter born. 08:22 Do you have any idea that he was-- 08:24 He had no idea. 08:25 Okay. He thought you-- 08:26 He thought that I was doing him a favor 08:27 because I bonded him out. 08:30 And so it was just me being off into the streets. 08:33 This is the lifestyle that I was accustomed to. 08:35 So after I see my daughter born what I didn't know 08:39 they had launched a federal investigation on me. 08:41 So when in go to court I see my daughter born, 08:45 I'm thanking I got this. 08:46 I know he is in my basement tied up 08:49 and going to do the courtroom my lawyer say 08:51 and I don't know why you hid him about to revoke 08:52 your bond like you are for kidnap. 08:54 I say, ah. 08:55 He say, yeah, you bond the witness out of jail. 08:57 They found tied up in your basement. 08:59 They actually was raiding my house 09:00 because they know I was schedule for court. 09:03 So as a result of it I went on a run. 09:09 Show you how even my thought process was 09:12 my daughter was two weeks 09:14 and I had her mom on a run with me. 09:18 So by this time I went back to our old house, 09:25 trusted someone they told on me, 09:27 I ended up going to the state penitentiary 09:29 but as a result of it 09:32 my deceptiveness and my street manipulation 09:35 when they charged me with the kidnap 09:36 and I'm thinking well, 09:38 money can always get you out of these situations. 09:41 So I hired my cousin who is an attorney 09:44 and it was a loophole in a case. 09:47 The mere fact that I told the individual, 09:50 I'm gonna tie you up 09:51 so you won't testify against me. 09:53 Do you have a problem with it? 09:55 And he said, no I don't have a problem with it 09:56 but I don't think it's necessary. 09:58 So therefore it was no longer kidnapping. 10:00 He volunteered but that was God 10:02 trying to put His hands on me but me just being ignorant. 10:05 I'm thinking it's me, 10:07 you know, so I went to prison 10:10 ended up receiving two to five altogether. 10:13 Came home, first day out, I'm back selling drugs. 10:17 I wasn't even out two hours. 10:18 Selling drugs. Selling drugs. 10:20 Selling drugs not even-- but at this time 10:24 this when I was exposed and I say exposed to the fact 10:26 that I couldn't read by a Mexican friend of mine. 10:30 So I had the ability to read at this time 10:34 but my mindset wasn't changed. 10:37 I'm learning to read but I'm still like, 10:39 I got to get out here and get to this money. 10:40 I got to get out here and get to this money. 10:41 I'm planning this whole two and half years 10:43 because think about it, -- by this time 10:46 So the only thing I'm doing is like okay, 10:47 when I get out I'm really gonna be good. 10:49 I'm really gonna be better. And so I was out. 10:53 And as a result of coming home from the state penitentiary 10:57 I was indicted by the federal government, right, 11:03 for a case that they had already been investigating 11:07 they is already investigating so when that took place 11:13 I then went to the federal penitentiary, 11:15 play guilty to found me in possession of firearms. 11:19 And this time was married 11:21 and they used my wife 11:23 as the only witness because what they did was 11:26 and I think you remember this because he was asking me 11:27 because I was so upset at the time. 11:30 And they charged her 11:34 with purchasing weapons for me and as a result of that 11:38 because they can make her testify against me. 11:40 They say, we'll drop the charges 11:42 if you will testify against your husband. 11:44 So she worked with the federal government for six months 11:47 on the investigation 11:48 because they were trying to investigate assault murders. 11:52 And they felt like if we can get him 11:55 and I never forget I heard a conversation, 11:57 we can't get him on murders let's get him over 11:59 whatever we can which is the guns. 12:02 And as a result of that 12:03 that's how I ended up in a federal penitentiary. 12:06 When I come home, lo and behold this is how I met Mr. Nowlin. 12:10 He is my counselor. 12:12 It made him to talk 12:13 and I used to address some of the issues 12:16 because I was walking my divorce at the time 12:18 and he used to always tell me like, you are smart man. 12:20 You are wise man. 12:22 I would give you a job, you can do this for me. 12:24 And I was like really? 12:26 And we sit in the groups I started to engage him, 12:29 being interactive with other group members 12:31 and things like that. 12:32 I never forget it was times 12:33 where I used to sit on the stairs 12:35 by your office waiting you to get there 12:36 because I would get my tern for session. 12:38 And me and him will be in there, 12:40 the session is supposed to be a hour. 12:42 We may talk for hour and half, two hours 12:43 and everybody else in sessions be at hold. 12:46 But I really wanted it 12:48 but I still didn't know how to get it. 12:50 And now that I look back I realized it 12:54 you really couldn't talk Jesus to me 12:57 because of that situations but we used to talk about 13:00 the God and I seeing a humble spirit 13:03 and so we went into setting goals. 13:07 And so I learned how to set goals 13:08 because I never knew how. 13:10 My only goal was to be a drug dealer. 13:13 So in 2009 I was released from the halfway house 13:18 and in 2009 the old murders that they were investigating 13:22 one of them came upon me. 13:24 Now this time I'm doing anything but books. 13:28 I was working at a supermarket 13:30 and it was funny how I ended up getting that job 13:32 because I actually went to the owners and told them 13:34 I can't get a job. 13:36 I have to start back selling dope, 13:38 this is my neighborhood, 13:39 the drug that is gonna be coming here 13:40 is still in our yard-- selling it back to me. 13:43 So here the crime rate don't go up 13:45 your business is gonna go down. 13:46 I need a job and say okay. I said, I don't have any money. 13:49 They said, listen. 13:51 I said my daughter's birthday coming up 13:53 and I don't have any money to buy a gift. 13:54 A man went into the store pull our $150 gave it to me 13:57 and say come back and get your application. 13:59 I mean, come back and start get your schedule on Sunday, 14:02 this is on the Thursday. 14:04 Me still thinking is my buffalo mentality, 14:08 yeah, you know, they better give me a job. 14:11 That will recognize you. 14:12 Real and this is how I'm feeling. 14:13 Not knowing this is God blessing me. 14:16 And so as a result of that 14:18 I ended up only working like three, three days a week, 14:21 two hour days, four hour days 14:23 but I hung in there and I started getting 14:25 a honest pay check, the honest pay check. 14:27 So moving forward my mother-- 14:34 I went to report to my federal agent 14:36 and I'm on state parole at this time 14:39 and my federal agent told me, 14:40 he say, the detectives came up here looking for you. 14:44 They want to talk to you about a cold case, 14:46 they said they are investigating you for murder. 14:48 And so the first thing I be a street sense. 14:51 Do I have to call? 14:54 He said, it's up to you. 14:55 It's your choice but I just want you to know 14:57 that they talked to me and they said 14:59 they have a case that they are opening 15:02 and you are the least suspect on a case. 15:06 I became fearful. 15:08 That was the first time that I actually became scared 15:11 because now I'm trying to do the right thing 15:13 and I seem my past is coming back to haunt me. 15:17 And so I'm crying out to my mother 15:18 and I'm telling her like, mom, 15:21 I'm scared, I don't know what to do. 15:23 She is like son, pray. 15:24 And I'm like that stuff not going to work 15:26 and I'm like do you hear what I'm saying. 15:27 So I gave her I say, listen, this is how I feel. 15:31 I feel like a bird stuck in the cage with no way out 15:35 and there's a hungry cat coming my way 15:37 but the cat can't get in. 15:39 But there is no way for me to get out. 15:40 So can you imagine how I'm feeling? 15:42 She keep saying, pray. 15:43 So I called my aunty and I said aunty, 15:45 can you pray for me? 15:47 And she said, what's going on? 15:48 So I'm telling her situation. 15:49 She said, yeah, but I need you to pray too. 15:51 And I'm like I don't know how to pray. 15:52 That's not gonna work. 15:54 And so I called my other-- who is a pastor 15:57 and I'm like I need you all to pray for me 15:58 but everybody is telling me pray for yourself. 16:01 And I'm like that is not gonna work. 16:02 So my mother and she said son, 16:04 talk to God how you are talking to me right now. 16:07 And I'll never forget 16:09 I was living on the Westside with one of my aunts 16:11 I went into the room and I just prayed. 16:13 And I talked to God like how we are talking. 16:14 And I say okay, God, if You are real 16:16 I want to make a deal with You 16:18 and this is the deal I'm willing to make. 16:20 I won't hurt people no more, 16:21 I won't sell drugs no more, 16:23 I will not be involved in a madness 16:25 and I believe in Your son Jesus Christ. 16:28 If this don't work they may you both know what it is. 16:32 Three weeks later the person actually committed to murder 16:35 because I couldn't cull on him 16:36 because my street-- they are street cull. 16:39 The person actually committed the murder Lord convicted him 16:42 in His conscious to step up and confess 16:45 and let them know I didn't have anything to do with it. 16:48 Look at God. 16:49 So as a result of that I never broke my deal. 16:53 I've been given back, blessed enough to each job 16:59 after that it just started getting better. 17:01 And then I was looking at the youth violence 17:04 when I stayed in Detroit 17:05 and I'm like well, I have destroyed lives. 17:07 Lord, just prove my spirit like you can't pay a debt 17:11 about overlooking what you owe. 17:14 You can't pay a debt by going to prison 17:17 and then coming out here and be a law abiding citizen. 17:20 You have to pay a debt by helping rebuild 17:22 which you destroyed. 17:23 And so when He gave me that nudge in my spirit 17:26 I was still confused. 17:28 I didn't understand. 17:30 Like okay, how can I rebuild what I destroyed? 17:33 I mean, I'm not getting this. 17:35 Look at these communities, look at all the violence, 17:38 look at this stuff. 17:40 So me and an individual was talking 17:41 and I told myself you know, what I realized now 17:44 what I didn't know yesterday is 17:46 a lot of these young folks are going up 17:47 because they are addicted to drugs. 17:50 Drugs that I help distribute to pregnant women 17:53 so now that's the reason 17:55 why a lot of thing are the way they are. 17:57 And he say, you know what, Ray, I never looked it like that. 18:00 And that's when I took the initiative 18:02 to quit my job, with just a vision. 18:04 Lord gave me a vision. 18:06 And when I quit my job I started doing 18:09 volunteer work and community service with you. 18:12 On up the way county juvenile facility its like okay, 18:15 and then I started my own company, 18:17 my own business keep them alive and it was keep youth alive 18:20 from the spiritual stand point and a natural stand point. 18:23 And so I just started-- 18:27 a lot of people just started gravitating to me, 18:29 and doors are being kicked down instead of being open. 18:33 I'm meeting senators and Congress people 18:36 and things of this nature and they are like come on, 18:37 we want you to come and talk to these people. 18:39 Sit down and talk to us and I was working, 18:41 I was the assistant director over the facility 18:44 and Congressman Hansen Clarke walked in, 18:46 and he seen how I was mentoring the young people 18:49 and he said I want to do on literacy. 18:51 And I didn't how I was gonna go about doing this. 18:55 But I need to use you. 18:58 And me being me I'm like okay, not a problem. 19:01 And as a result of that I started working for him 19:06 and he utilized me for the literacy program, 19:08 the "ban the box" which takes the box off, 19:12 all application on a national level. 19:14 Are you being convicted-- 19:15 have you ever been convicted of the felony? 19:18 I had so many politicians reach out to me 19:21 with prevention programs and things of this nature. 19:25 Now I'm an overseer 19:27 of the youth ministry in my church. 19:29 And I could deliver. 19:30 And my first lady 19:31 and my pastor they keep telling me, 19:33 they say, these youth just gravitate to you. 19:35 What is it, Ray? 19:36 I say, I will show examples worth a ton of advice. 19:39 I'm an example of change 19:42 and it was funny because I had to go and do-- 19:45 I stopped the violence really when I was honorary speaker 19:48 and I didn't know 19:51 what this was going to turn out, 19:52 how it's going to turn out but I ended up 19:54 being with a bunch of gays that was Muslims. 19:58 But when I and I let them know that Jesus is my main man 20:01 I don't-- I can't speak for nobody else 20:03 but this is what I represent. 20:06 They started giving me their business card 20:07 and told me I'm a perfect example of transformation. 20:10 Let me ask you a question, I mean powerful testimony. 20:14 You meet Mr. Nowlin in a halfway house. 20:17 He encourages you to go back to school. 20:19 Yes. 20:20 You started school 20:22 at Wayne County Community College? 20:24 In Detroit, Michigan, one of the campuses. 20:28 You walk into a class speech one-on-one 20:32 and there is this dynamic teacher 20:35 and dynamics speech teacher 20:38 and not knowing that Mr. Nowlin and this dynamic teacher 20:43 which is me are husband and wife. 20:46 Now you're talking about God doing something. 20:49 He is. 20:50 All right, you were with him most of-- 20:53 was that a year ago, years ago, years ago 20:56 and you walk into my class out of all the classes 20:59 who teach speech one of the instructors 21:02 and I was talking-- we got into a conversation 21:07 and you were asking me a question. 21:08 I said, well, you need to talk to my husband 21:10 and I said his name is Arthur Nowlin 21:12 you're just I know Mr. Arthur Nowlin. 21:14 I've just called him. 21:15 I said you, Ray Winns, you just called my office. 21:18 Right. 21:19 And how God just did that. 21:22 Yeah, it was and-- 21:23 Was in one of my class. Listen-- 21:25 I mean, and I seriously your class 21:28 I represented your class well all through the school. 21:30 When lot of people say, how could you take her? 21:33 I said, because she is gonna make sure you learn. 21:35 And one of the things that I've learned 21:38 I'm being on education but not found to school. 21:42 So I've learned how to learn what applies to me 21:46 and how I can utilize where I'm going. 21:48 And so with your class one of the things 21:51 I personally have to say 21:53 that I took from your class is the ability to speak. 21:57 Now you must be speakers. So that's what fits me. 22:02 I learned how to do a outline 22:04 which I never knew how to do a outline. 22:06 So now I'm working on outlines as far as my testimony. 22:11 So overall you are an amazing teacher. 22:13 I don't think. Can you say it again? 22:17 You know-- Seriously though-- 22:19 I appreciate that. Praise God, praise God. 22:21 And I used to encourage, try to encourage the students 22:25 telling them listen, if you stick it out 22:27 she is not as bad as you think. 22:30 She just wants you to learn. 22:36 It's a standing thing with me if I had taken your class-- 22:40 You would have dropped the class. 22:41 I would have dropped your class. 22:42 You know what, I been dropped, I actually took the incomplete 22:45 but that was actually because of my schedule. 22:47 Your schedule, we know that. 22:48 I found myself double scheduling 22:51 and I be like, wow, okay, how did this even happen. 22:53 Wait, listen, listen, Ray. 22:55 Sometimes the Lord works in mysterious way. 23:00 He blessed you. 23:01 But I'm actually because of the class-- 23:03 to me though seriously it was easy. 23:06 It was easy because I wanted it. 23:08 I wanted and that was the difference. 23:10 He braced students in everything. 23:12 I believe that's the key to anybody. 23:15 You know, when you reached the point 23:18 especially with all the chaos that was in your life 23:22 God was nudging at you 23:25 because He saw something different from you 23:28 and sometimes we don't even understand 23:30 and we know real lives even before we make 23:33 a personal relationship with the Lord 23:36 sometimes God can put His hands on us 23:39 and say no, I'm not gonna send you that way, 23:41 I'm gonna send you this way. 23:43 And all you have to do just have a willingness 23:46 and you were sick and tired of being-- 23:49 You know what, it was, I heard you speaking early 23:52 and say God knows how to get our attention. 23:53 It was one of the things 23:54 where God had to get my attention 23:56 because again we are talking about 23:57 something that I never believed in, 23:58 someone I never believed in. 24:00 And so when it was time to give my attention 24:04 at that time in my life 24:06 when I was trying to do the right thing. 24:08 He like, okay, you're doing the right thing 24:10 but you are doing the right thing in a wrong way. 24:12 Because you working but you are not working 24:16 as Me in the work that you are doing. 24:18 And so when the cold case came up 24:22 that really like, okay, hold on. 24:23 Wait, wait, wait, wait. 24:24 I don't want to go back to jail. 24:25 If I want to go back to jail I wouldn't be working. 24:27 And so like going back to what you said God knew 24:33 that I was gonna have to come to Him with a deal 24:35 with a willing heart and dropped to My knee 24:38 and confess Jesus is my Lord and Savior. 24:40 He say, okay you know what, 24:41 I know My son better than he know himself. 24:44 Let Me just get his attention with this case 24:47 and I know he did not commit. 24:49 It was so much I could have went through 24:51 because of the things that I did 24:52 but it was something that I did not do 24:55 but I refused to tell. 24:57 So it was like I'm a breaking, I'm a breaking 25:02 and I head to crowd and say okay, God, listen. 25:04 I need You right now and if You help me 25:09 this is what I'm willing to do. 25:10 And He knew that was I made that deal 25:12 because the handshake is better than a contract if I'm booked. 25:15 So I was like once you I confess, 25:17 okay, I will not do this. 25:18 If you help me He knew my heart 25:21 and at that moment He had and I mean, 25:23 come one now we are talking about God. 25:25 How is it we live in a city of Detroit people 25:28 commit crime all day, every day? 25:30 They commit murders, they go on assault. 25:32 Here it is I'm in a situation being charged with a murder 25:35 I did not commit, even though I had knowledge of 25:38 I'm not willing to testify against it. 25:40 The person he is not even a suspect, 25:43 God convicts him to come 25:45 and confess to a crime he did not commit. 25:47 No, I'm not gonna tell them that was nothing but God. 25:51 That was nothing but God. 25:52 And that's why it's so important 25:53 when you are in a situation you turn it over to God 25:56 and you leave it there. 25:58 The Holy Spirit is the one that convicts the heart. 26:01 Amen. 26:02 And you pray and all guy needs to do is pray 26:05 and live and come out of that rut 26:09 and God will turn things around for us. 26:11 And then the process of turning things around 26:14 it's not just at a moderate pace, 26:18 so a slow pace. 26:19 It turns in around like its just it boom, boom, boom 26:22 one thing is happening after an another. 26:24 It will be so funny because like me and you 26:27 we even tried to schedule-- we mean by in last two weeks 26:30 it was like go for our schedules 26:34 and to God be the glory, 26:35 that's what I was telling my patient 26:36 because Friday made him had quite a few meetings 26:40 and this was the first time made him 26:41 actually walked hand in hand outside the church. 26:44 And one of the things that I told him 26:46 I said man, Lord put in my spirit 26:47 because I've never submitted to man, 26:49 never submitted to leadership. 26:51 But one of the things that I'm willing to do 26:52 now is I'm not gonna swallow this prayer 26:54 I'm gonna spit it out 26:56 and I'm gonna submit to leadership. 26:59 You be my leader and he said, wow. 27:02 He say and I said the only thing 27:03 that I need you to be is be a father to me. 27:06 He said, I'm your spiritual dad. 27:07 I said, no, could the spirit, 27:09 sometime I not want to deal my foolishness. 27:11 I need you to be a natural father 27:12 is why because I don't have a father. 27:14 And he said, you have it son, you have it. 27:16 And so just than a course of two days 27:19 my life has just prospered. 27:23 Well, I tell you, well, we got about 30 seconds 27:25 and, you know, what would you say 27:27 to someone in a few words to say, 27:29 you know, no more bars? 27:32 You got to give your life to Christ. 27:34 You got to acknowledge Christ. 27:35 If you don't acknowledge that you will see bars. 27:38 I mean, seriously you have to-- I mean, like seriously. 27:42 And how do you know you will, just give Him a change. 27:45 That's it. 27:46 Well, we want you to give God a chance 27:48 because He is waiting for you and you don't have to go 27:51 through any difficulty, no more bars. 27:55 Well, listen, I'm Kim Logan 27:56 and I want to thank Ray Winns for being with us. 27:59 Thank you all for having me. 28:00 I'm Arthur Nowlins and I really appreciate you've been here 28:03 and that's just monumental. 28:04 Thank you. 28:05 Thank you for joining us 28:06 on another episode of "Making It Work." 28:09 God bless. |
Revised 2015-05-14