Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to "Making It Work."
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When you think about individuals
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who have been incarcerated
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and people have
gone to things Arthur,
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what comes to mind is
once they get out no more bars.
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Don't want to go back.
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In your experience and your work
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with the federal bureau prison
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and those who
have been incarcerated,
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no more bars,
what comes to mind?
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Determination, knowledge,
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higher self-esteem
and most importantly
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a relationship with
God to help them overcome
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maybe some of the difficulties
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that they may be--
may be experiencing.
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But those who return back,
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we have those who stay
and say I'm never going back.
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You know, those who go, come out
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they can't make
it in to going back.
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I think some of the things that
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may draw a person
back to prison is that
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they haven't come to a point
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where they accept themselves
and accept the things that
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that has placed them in
prison in the first place.
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Oh, I see.
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You know, and
that becomes difficult
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because what
happens is a lot of times
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they come out with the same
havocs that got them in there.
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They hang around
some of the same people,
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go back to the same environment.
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So they are
basically sending themselves up
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if they have
not made a decision,
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a decision to
change to their lifestyle.
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So you see, do you
see a lot of this return
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in the process
when you are working
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with the men in
the halfway houses?
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We work with the program
that is pretty successful.
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Okay.
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And you know, I'm really proud
to be a part of that program
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because the success rate
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is higher than someone in prison
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and coming out
that may not have taken
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that program and
left them to a pint
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where they had a void.
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The program that I'm associated
with offers knowledge,
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offers regular
therapy and encourages
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the return--
returning offenders to
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no matter what don't give up.
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Use these tools
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and it will make
your life better.
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I know, I believe God placed
you there Arthur, for a reason
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and He opened the door for
you to be able to minister.
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Well, why don't
you introduce our guest
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and how the two of you met?
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And then I'll talk
about how I met them later on.
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No, well, definitely.
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Ray and I have a standing
relationship since 2008.
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Yes. You know,
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And what has
happened Ray came to me
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through the program
that I just discussed
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and he was willing
to make those changes.
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He came to me with a
lot of determination,
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focus and he was
willing to go in a direction
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that was gonna make him
a better person, literally.
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Oh, we want to welcome
Ray Winns to our program.
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Thank you for
having me on your program.
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Oh, God bless.
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You are looking
now good and desperate.
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Prosperous. Prosperous.
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He made me
prosperous, placing God in me.
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Yes, well, tell us how
you came to meet Mr. Nowlin.
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Well, he shared a
little bit about that.
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But tell us your testimony,
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you know, as a little boy
and how did you come to be,
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the name of the
program "No More Bars."
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How did you end
up going into prison,
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coming out,
going back, coming out.
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Tell us our viewers your story.
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Well, I was a third
generation drug dealer.
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I was born third generational.
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My grandparents
were drug dealers,
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my parents were drug dealers.
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And so from my
early childhood memory
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because of my environment
that's all I wanted to be.
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I was exposed to
actually seeing drugs
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being cooked up and distributed
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by the time I
was nine-years-old.
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What's its like?
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And one of the
main factors of my life
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was I never had ability to read.
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I knew how to count but
I didn't know how to read.
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So we are going through life,
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I never step
foot in high school,
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I was kicked out three
public schools in eighth grade
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because I was caught
with a assault shotgun.
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I founded a gang
when I was 13-years-old.
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So I didn't know how
to identity my feelings
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because I didn't
had ability to read.
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So I acted my feelings out.
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Me and mother and I
was talking about the day
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and I was talking about
my first experience of being
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kicked out of
school was in a first grade
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because I threw a
object at the teacher
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and hit her on her
head and my mother--
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and they kicked me
out because they say
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if she would have turned around
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you could have
hit her on her eye.
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And again just
going to the lifestyle
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of drug dealers,
my father was murdered
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when I was nine-years-old
on my grandmother's porch.
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Prior to that I
seen them this Saturday
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receiving my money
for my Easter suit,
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instead of celebrating
Easter I was mourning
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my father being
murdered on Easter Sunday.
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Easter Sunday.
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And I never celebrated Easter
until about three years ago.
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Wow.
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But then someone had
asked that I had to go,
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so I actually when I
first encountered you,
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me and you discussed a
lot about a lot of my hurts.
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I didn't develop the
ability to read until I was 21.
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Twenty one.
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Was incarcerated at the time?
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Yes, I was incarcerated
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And so just coming in the
city of Detroit gang banging,
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I was convicted of
murder when I was 15-years-old.
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Tried as a adult,
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weighed as a adult
sentenced as a juvenile.
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The victim's mother
and he was a innocent man
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but the victim
mother and his sister say
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we understood the
lifestyle that my son was living
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and my brother was
living and this is a kid.
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There is not gonna
be any rehabilitation
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in a prison system forum.
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Sentenced to as a juvenile,
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go to juvenile the
judge gave me five years.
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I was out in three.
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No rehabilitation
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because I still
didn't had ability to read.
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So coming out when
I'm 18, by the time I'm 19
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I'm selling drugs again,
because this was the lifestyle
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that I was
accustomed to from my parents.
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At this time my mother
had decided to change her life
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around and give
her life to Christ
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but that wasn't something
that I was willing to accept.
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So I left my mother
when I seeking this way.
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So when I come
home at the age of 18
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I'm back selling drugs.
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I'm going out of
town selling drugs.
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I was convicted over
drug case in Lansing.
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Spent a year in
the country jail there
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but still without the
ability to be able to read.
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So what I do, I come back home
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I'm back selling drugs
again to my same environment.
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By this time I'm 20,
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21 I was
charged with kidnapping,
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or drugs and
injustice, drug trafficking.
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And my daughter
was-- her mom was pregnant
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at the time and I was
resort to my kidnapping
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because I had to
start trial on August 22nd
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and my daughter was--
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mother was having a
C-section August 22nd.
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So I'm like
either see my child born
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or go and start trial.
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So I bonded him out of the jail
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and put them in a
basement, tied them up
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and went to see my
daughter being born.
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Okay, go back. You did what?
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I went to-- I went
bonded him out of jail
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The witness?
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The witness so he
won't have to file--
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Against you? Against me.
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Took him to the house,
tied him up in a basement
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and went to the hospital
to see my daughter born.
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Do you have any
idea that he was--
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He had no idea.
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Okay. He thought you--
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He thought that I
was doing him a favor
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because I bonded him out.
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And so it was just me
being off into the streets.
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This is the lifestyle
that I was accustomed to.
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So after I see my
daughter born what I didn't know
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they had launched a
federal investigation on me.
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So when in go to court
I see my daughter born,
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I'm thanking I got this.
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I know he is in
my basement tied up
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and going to do the
courtroom my lawyer say
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and I don't know why
you hid him about to revoke
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your bond like
you are for kidnap.
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I say, ah.
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He say, yeah, you bond
the witness out of jail.
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They found tied
up in your basement.
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They actually
was raiding my house
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because they know I
was schedule for court.
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So as a result of
it I went on a run.
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Show you how even
my thought process was
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my daughter was two weeks
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and I had her
mom on a run with me.
00:09:14.63\00:09:18.09
So by this time I
went back to our old house,
00:09:18.12\00:09:25.32
trusted someone they told on me,
00:09:25.35\00:09:27.61
I ended up going to
the state penitentiary
00:09:27.64\00:09:29.53
but as a result of it
00:09:29.56\00:09:32.19
my deceptiveness and
my street manipulation
00:09:32.22\00:09:35.43
when they charged
me with the kidnap
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and I'm thinking well,
00:09:36.86\00:09:38.01
money can always get
you out of these situations.
00:09:38.04\00:09:41.23
So I hired my
cousin who is an attorney
00:09:41.26\00:09:44.08
and it was a loophole in a case.
00:09:44.11\00:09:47.61
The mere fact that
I told the individual,
00:09:47.64\00:09:50.15
I'm gonna tie you up
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so you won't testify against me.
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Do you have a problem with it?
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And he said, no I
don't have a problem with it
00:09:55.15\00:09:56.83
but I don't
think it's necessary.
00:09:56.87\00:09:58.27
So therefore it was
no longer kidnapping.
00:09:58.30\00:10:00.44
He volunteered but that was God
00:10:00.47\00:10:02.89
trying to put His hands on
me but me just being ignorant.
00:10:02.92\00:10:05.60
I'm thinking it's me,
00:10:05.63\00:10:07.32
you know, so I went to prison
00:10:07.35\00:10:10.47
ended up receiving
two to five altogether.
00:10:10.50\00:10:13.57
Came home, first day
out, I'm back selling drugs.
00:10:13.60\00:10:17.17
I wasn't even out two hours.
00:10:17.20\00:10:18.96
Selling drugs. Selling drugs.
00:10:18.99\00:10:20.92
Selling drugs not
even-- but at this time
00:10:20.95\00:10:24.72
this when I was exposed
and I say exposed to the fact
00:10:24.75\00:10:26.86
that I couldn't read by
a Mexican friend of mine.
00:10:26.89\00:10:30.39
So I had the
ability to read at this time
00:10:30.42\00:10:34.13
but my mindset wasn't changed.
00:10:34.16\00:10:37.27
I'm learning to
read but I'm still like,
00:10:37.30\00:10:39.25
I got to get out here
and get to this money.
00:10:39.28\00:10:40.46
I got to get out here
and get to this money.
00:10:40.49\00:10:41.70
I'm planning this
whole two and half years
00:10:41.73\00:10:43.48
because think
about it, -- by this time
00:10:43.51\00:10:46.26
So the only thing
I'm doing is like okay,
00:10:46.29\00:10:47.61
when I get out I'm
really gonna be good.
00:10:47.64\00:10:49.36
I'm really gonna be
better. And so I was out.
00:10:49.39\00:10:53.00
And as a result of coming
home from the state penitentiary
00:10:53.03\00:10:56.99
I was indicted by the
federal government, right,
00:10:57.02\00:11:03.69
for a case that they had
already been investigating
00:11:03.72\00:11:07.94
they is already investigating
so when that took place
00:11:07.97\00:11:13.45
I then went to the
federal penitentiary,
00:11:13.48\00:11:15.48
play guilty to found me
in possession of firearms.
00:11:15.51\00:11:18.99
And this time was married
00:11:19.02\00:11:21.84
and they used my wife
00:11:21.87\00:11:23.55
as the only witness
because what they did was
00:11:23.58\00:11:26.43
and I think you remember
this because he was asking me
00:11:26.46\00:11:27.53
because I was so
upset at the time.
00:11:27.56\00:11:30.45
And they charged her
00:11:30.48\00:11:34.62
with purchasing weapons
for me and as a result of that
00:11:34.65\00:11:38.46
because they can make
her testify against me.
00:11:38.49\00:11:40.48
They say, we'll drop the charges
00:11:40.51\00:11:42.50
if you will testify
against your husband.
00:11:42.53\00:11:44.73
So she worked with the federal
government for six months
00:11:44.76\00:11:47.35
on the investigation
00:11:47.38\00:11:48.82
because they were trying to
investigate assault murders.
00:11:48.85\00:11:52.20
And they felt
like if we can get him
00:11:52.23\00:11:55.28
and I never forget I
heard a conversation,
00:11:55.31\00:11:57.82
we can't get him on
murders let's get him over
00:11:57.85\00:11:59.73
whatever we can
which is the guns.
00:11:59.76\00:12:02.10
And as a result of that
00:12:02.13\00:12:03.77
that's how I ended up
in a federal penitentiary.
00:12:03.80\00:12:06.59
When I come home, lo and behold
this is how I met Mr. Nowlin.
00:12:06.62\00:12:10.80
He is my counselor.
00:12:10.83\00:12:12.26
It made him to talk
00:12:12.29\00:12:13.69
and I used to
address some of the issues
00:12:13.72\00:12:16.03
because I was walking
my divorce at the time
00:12:16.06\00:12:18.16
and he used to always tell
me like, you are smart man.
00:12:18.19\00:12:20.95
You are wise man.
00:12:20.98\00:12:22.26
I would give you a
job, you can do this for me.
00:12:22.29\00:12:24.75
And I was like really?
00:12:24.78\00:12:26.93
And we sit in the
groups I started to engage him,
00:12:26.96\00:12:29.37
being interactive
with other group members
00:12:29.40\00:12:31.05
and things like that.
00:12:31.08\00:12:32.23
I never forget it was times
00:12:32.26\00:12:33.41
where I used to
sit on the stairs
00:12:33.44\00:12:35.10
by your office
waiting you to get there
00:12:35.13\00:12:36.78
because I would get
my tern for session.
00:12:36.81\00:12:38.81
And me and him will be in there,
00:12:38.84\00:12:40.05
the session is
supposed to be a hour.
00:12:40.08\00:12:41.97
We may talk for
hour and half, two hours
00:12:42.00\00:12:43.74
and everybody else
in sessions be at hold.
00:12:43.77\00:12:46.52
But I really wanted it
00:12:46.55\00:12:48.72
but I still didn't
know how to get it.
00:12:48.75\00:12:50.95
And now that I
look back I realized it
00:12:50.98\00:12:54.44
you really
couldn't talk Jesus to me
00:12:54.47\00:12:57.21
because of that situations
but we used to talk about
00:12:57.24\00:13:00.27
the God and I
seeing a humble spirit
00:13:00.30\00:13:03.10
and so we went
into setting goals.
00:13:03.13\00:13:07.35
And so I
learned how to set goals
00:13:07.38\00:13:08.75
because I never knew how.
00:13:08.78\00:13:10.64
My only goal was
to be a drug dealer.
00:13:10.67\00:13:13.34
So in 2009 I was
released from the halfway house
00:13:13.37\00:13:18.61
and in 2009 the old murders
that they were investigating
00:13:18.64\00:13:22.41
one of them came upon me.
00:13:22.44\00:13:24.58
Now this time I'm
doing anything but books.
00:13:24.61\00:13:28.14
I was working at a supermarket
00:13:28.17\00:13:30.60
and it was funny how I
ended up getting that job
00:13:30.63\00:13:32.72
because I actually went
to the owners and told them
00:13:32.75\00:13:34.95
I can't get a job.
00:13:34.98\00:13:36.71
I have to start
back selling dope,
00:13:36.74\00:13:38.14
this is my neighborhood,
00:13:38.17\00:13:39.56
the drug that is
gonna be coming here
00:13:39.59\00:13:40.76
is still in our
yard-- selling it back to me.
00:13:40.79\00:13:43.56
So here the
crime rate don't go up
00:13:43.59\00:13:45.24
your business is gonna go down.
00:13:45.27\00:13:46.67
I need a job and say okay. I
said, I don't have any money.
00:13:46.70\00:13:49.33
They said, listen.
00:13:49.36\00:13:51.08
I said my
daughter's birthday coming up
00:13:51.11\00:13:52.97
and I don't have
any money to buy a gift.
00:13:53.00\00:13:54.50
A man went into the store
pull our $150 gave it to me
00:13:54.53\00:13:57.54
and say come back
and get your application.
00:13:57.57\00:13:59.17
I mean, come back and start
get your schedule on Sunday,
00:13:59.20\00:14:02.15
this is on the Thursday.
00:14:02.18\00:14:04.07
Me still thinking is
my buffalo mentality,
00:14:04.10\00:14:08.93
yeah, you know, they
better give me a job.
00:14:08.96\00:14:11.34
That will recognize you.
00:14:11.37\00:14:12.56
Real and this
is how I'm feeling.
00:14:12.59\00:14:13.91
Not knowing this
is God blessing me.
00:14:13.94\00:14:16.29
And so as a result of that
00:14:16.32\00:14:18.81
I ended up only working
like three, three days a week,
00:14:18.84\00:14:21.11
two hour days, four hour days
00:14:21.14\00:14:23.14
but I hung in there
and I started getting
00:14:23.17\00:14:25.58
a honest pay check,
the honest pay check.
00:14:25.61\00:14:27.69
So moving forward my mother--
00:14:27.72\00:14:34.67
I went to report
to my federal agent
00:14:34.70\00:14:36.84
and I'm on state
parole at this time
00:14:36.87\00:14:39.44
and my federal agent told me,
00:14:39.47\00:14:40.71
he say, the detectives
came up here looking for you.
00:14:40.74\00:14:44.75
They want to talk to
you about a cold case,
00:14:44.78\00:14:46.28
they said they are
investigating you for murder.
00:14:46.31\00:14:48.93
And so the first
thing I be a street sense.
00:14:48.96\00:14:51.78
Do I have to call?
00:14:51.81\00:14:54.10
He said, it's up to you.
00:14:54.13\00:14:55.85
It's your choice but
I just want you to know
00:14:55.88\00:14:57.83
that they talked
to me and they said
00:14:57.86\00:14:59.48
they have a case
that they are opening
00:14:59.51\00:15:02.43
and you are the
least suspect on a case.
00:15:02.46\00:15:06.91
I became fearful.
00:15:06.94\00:15:08.74
That was the first time
that I actually became scared
00:15:08.77\00:15:11.87
because now I'm
trying to do the right thing
00:15:11.90\00:15:13.95
and I seem my past is
coming back to haunt me.
00:15:13.98\00:15:17.33
And so I'm
crying out to my mother
00:15:17.36\00:15:18.68
and I'm telling her like, mom,
00:15:18.71\00:15:21.49
I'm scared, I
don't know what to do.
00:15:21.52\00:15:23.19
She is like son, pray.
00:15:23.22\00:15:24.25
And I'm like that
stuff not going to work
00:15:24.28\00:15:26.41
and I'm like do you
hear what I'm saying.
00:15:26.44\00:15:27.83
So I gave her I say,
listen, this is how I feel.
00:15:27.86\00:15:31.61
I feel like a bird stuck
in the cage with no way out
00:15:31.64\00:15:35.25
and there's a
hungry cat coming my way
00:15:35.28\00:15:37.75
but the cat can't get in.
00:15:37.78\00:15:39.14
But there is no
way for me to get out.
00:15:39.17\00:15:40.86
So can you
imagine how I'm feeling?
00:15:40.89\00:15:42.16
She keep saying, pray.
00:15:42.19\00:15:43.22
So I called my
aunty and I said aunty,
00:15:43.25\00:15:45.65
can you pray for me?
00:15:45.68\00:15:46.97
And she said, what's going on?
00:15:47.00\00:15:48.32
So I'm telling her situation.
00:15:48.35\00:15:49.38
She said, yeah, but
I need you to pray too.
00:15:49.41\00:15:51.55
And I'm like I
don't know how to pray.
00:15:51.58\00:15:52.76
That's not gonna work.
00:15:52.79\00:15:54.82
And so I called my
other-- who is a pastor
00:15:54.85\00:15:56.98
and I'm like I need
you all to pray for me
00:15:57.01\00:15:58.59
but everybody is
telling me pray for yourself.
00:15:58.62\00:16:01.10
And I'm like that
is not gonna work.
00:16:01.13\00:16:02.69
So my mother and she said son,
00:16:02.72\00:16:04.91
talk to God how you are
talking to me right now.
00:16:04.94\00:16:07.69
And I'll never forget
00:16:07.72\00:16:09.05
I was living on the
Westside with one of my aunts
00:16:09.08\00:16:11.12
I went into the
room and I just prayed.
00:16:11.15\00:16:13.35
And I talked to God
like how we are talking.
00:16:13.38\00:16:14.70
And I say okay,
God, if You are real
00:16:14.73\00:16:16.90
I want to make a deal with You
00:16:16.93\00:16:18.57
and this is the
deal I'm willing to make.
00:16:18.60\00:16:20.45
I won't hurt people no more,
00:16:20.48\00:16:21.77
I won't sell drugs no more,
00:16:21.80\00:16:23.26
I will not be
involved in a madness
00:16:23.29\00:16:25.21
and I believe in
Your son Jesus Christ.
00:16:25.24\00:16:28.18
If this don't work they
may you both know what it is.
00:16:28.21\00:16:32.21
Three weeks later the person
actually committed to murder
00:16:32.24\00:16:35.15
because I couldn't cull on him
00:16:35.18\00:16:36.94
because my street--
they are street cull.
00:16:36.97\00:16:39.58
The person actually committed
the murder Lord convicted him
00:16:39.61\00:16:42.83
in His conscious
to step up and confess
00:16:42.86\00:16:45.90
and let them know I didn't
have anything to do with it.
00:16:45.93\00:16:48.06
Look at God.
00:16:48.09\00:16:49.28
So as a result of
that I never broke my deal.
00:16:49.31\00:16:53.84
I've been given back,
blessed enough to each job
00:16:53.87\00:16:59.17
after that it just
started getting better.
00:16:59.20\00:17:01.86
And then I was
looking at the youth violence
00:17:01.89\00:17:03.99
when I stayed in Detroit
00:17:04.02\00:17:05.73
and I'm like well, I
have destroyed lives.
00:17:05.76\00:17:07.07
Lord, just prove my
spirit like you can't pay a debt
00:17:07.10\00:17:11.47
about overlooking what you owe.
00:17:11.50\00:17:14.72
You can't pay a
debt by going to prison
00:17:14.75\00:17:17.27
and then coming out here
and be a law abiding citizen.
00:17:17.30\00:17:20.28
You have to pay a
debt by helping rebuild
00:17:20.31\00:17:22.21
which you destroyed.
00:17:22.24\00:17:23.82
And so when He gave me
that nudge in my spirit
00:17:23.85\00:17:26.62
I was still confused.
00:17:26.65\00:17:28.29
I didn't understand.
00:17:28.32\00:17:30.08
Like okay, how can I
rebuild what I destroyed?
00:17:30.11\00:17:33.56
I mean, I'm not getting this.
00:17:33.59\00:17:35.45
Look at these communities,
look at all the violence,
00:17:35.48\00:17:38.93
look at this stuff.
00:17:38.96\00:17:40.08
So me and an
individual was talking
00:17:40.11\00:17:41.64
and I told myself you
know, what I realized now
00:17:41.67\00:17:44.62
what I didn't know yesterday is
00:17:44.65\00:17:46.39
a lot of these
young folks are going up
00:17:46.42\00:17:47.82
because they are
addicted to drugs.
00:17:47.85\00:17:50.05
Drugs that I help
distribute to pregnant women
00:17:50.08\00:17:53.61
so now that's the reason
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.09
why a lot of thing
are the way they are.
00:17:55.12\00:17:57.58
And he say, you know what, Ray,
I never looked it like that.
00:17:57.61\00:18:00.72
And that's when I
took the initiative
00:18:00.75\00:18:02.21
to quit my job,
with just a vision.
00:18:02.24\00:18:04.42
Lord gave me a vision.
00:18:04.45\00:18:06.69
And when I quit my
job I started doing
00:18:06.72\00:18:09.31
volunteer work and
community service with you.
00:18:09.34\00:18:12.09
On up the way county
juvenile facility its like okay,
00:18:12.12\00:18:15.49
and then I
started my own company,
00:18:15.52\00:18:17.76
my own business keep them alive
and it was keep youth alive
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.92
from the spiritual stand
point and a natural stand point.
00:18:20.95\00:18:23.94
And so I just started--
00:18:23.97\00:18:27.47
a lot of people just
started gravitating to me,
00:18:27.50\00:18:29.51
and doors are being kicked
down instead of being open.
00:18:29.54\00:18:33.22
I'm meeting
senators and Congress people
00:18:33.25\00:18:36.19
and things of this nature
and they are like come on,
00:18:36.22\00:18:37.78
we want you to come
and talk to these people.
00:18:37.81\00:18:39.45
Sit down and talk to
us and I was working,
00:18:39.48\00:18:41.30
I was the assistant
director over the facility
00:18:41.33\00:18:44.63
and Congressman
Hansen Clarke walked in,
00:18:44.66\00:18:46.80
and he seen how I was
mentoring the young people
00:18:46.83\00:18:49.31
and he said I
want to do on literacy.
00:18:49.34\00:18:51.83
And I didn't how I was
gonna go about doing this.
00:18:51.86\00:18:55.25
But I need to use you.
00:18:55.28\00:18:58.01
And me being me I'm
like okay, not a problem.
00:18:58.04\00:19:01.14
And as a result of that
I started working for him
00:19:01.17\00:19:06.37
and he utilized me
for the literacy program,
00:19:06.40\00:19:08.96
the "ban the box"
which takes the box off,
00:19:08.99\00:19:12.61
all application
on a national level.
00:19:12.64\00:19:14.50
Are you being convicted--
00:19:14.53\00:19:15.56
have you ever been
convicted of the felony?
00:19:15.59\00:19:18.21
I had so many
politicians reach out to me
00:19:18.24\00:19:21.79
with prevention programs
and things of this nature.
00:19:21.82\00:19:25.05
Now I'm an overseer
00:19:25.08\00:19:27.32
of the youth
ministry in my church.
00:19:27.35\00:19:29.55
And I could deliver.
00:19:29.58\00:19:30.61
And my first lady
00:19:30.64\00:19:31.67
and my pastor
they keep telling me,
00:19:31.70\00:19:33.09
they say, these youth
just gravitate to you.
00:19:33.12\00:19:35.53
What is it, Ray?
00:19:35.56\00:19:36.70
I say, I will show
examples worth a ton of advice.
00:19:36.73\00:19:39.81
I'm an example of change
00:19:39.84\00:19:42.54
and it was funny
because I had to go and do--
00:19:42.57\00:19:45.20
I stopped the violence really
when I was honorary speaker
00:19:45.23\00:19:48.84
and I didn't know
00:19:48.87\00:19:51.14
what this was going to turn out,
00:19:51.17\00:19:52.70
how it's going to
turn out but I ended up
00:19:52.73\00:19:54.91
being with a bunch of
gays that was Muslims.
00:19:54.94\00:19:58.41
But when I and I let them
know that Jesus is my main man
00:19:58.44\00:20:01.44
I don't-- I can't
speak for nobody else
00:20:01.47\00:20:03.47
but this is what I represent.
00:20:03.50\00:20:06.06
They started giving
me their business card
00:20:06.09\00:20:07.47
and told me I'm a perfect
example of transformation.
00:20:07.50\00:20:10.90
Let me ask you a question,
I mean powerful testimony.
00:20:10.93\00:20:14.05
You meet Mr.
Nowlin in a halfway house.
00:20:14.08\00:20:17.13
He encourages you
to go back to school.
00:20:17.16\00:20:19.56
Yes.
00:20:19.59\00:20:20.96
You started school
00:20:20.99\00:20:22.66
at Wayne County
Community College?
00:20:22.69\00:20:24.75
In Detroit,
Michigan, one of the campuses.
00:20:24.78\00:20:28.13
You walk into a
class speech one-on-one
00:20:28.16\00:20:32.27
and there is
this dynamic teacher
00:20:32.30\00:20:35.56
and dynamics speech teacher
00:20:35.59\00:20:38.44
and not knowing that Mr.
Nowlin and this dynamic teacher
00:20:38.47\00:20:43.30
which is me are
husband and wife.
00:20:43.33\00:20:46.94
Now you're talking
about God doing something.
00:20:46.97\00:20:49.27
He is.
00:20:49.30\00:20:50.33
All right, you
were with him most of--
00:20:50.36\00:20:53.44
was that a year
ago, years ago, years ago
00:20:53.47\00:20:56.46
and you walk into my
class out of all the classes
00:20:56.49\00:20:59.94
who teach speech
one of the instructors
00:20:59.97\00:21:02.81
and I was talking-- we
got into a conversation
00:21:02.84\00:21:07.30
and you were
asking me a question.
00:21:07.33\00:21:08.72
I said, well, you
need to talk to my husband
00:21:08.75\00:21:10.93
and I said his
name is Arthur Nowlin
00:21:10.96\00:21:12.30
you're just I
know Mr. Arthur Nowlin.
00:21:12.33\00:21:14.86
I've just called him.
00:21:14.89\00:21:15.92
I said you, Ray Winns,
you just called my office.
00:21:15.95\00:21:18.14
Right.
00:21:18.17\00:21:19.25
And how God just did that.
00:21:19.28\00:21:21.97
Yeah, it was and--
00:21:22.00\00:21:23.03
Was in one of my class. Listen--
00:21:23.06\00:21:25.32
I mean, and I
seriously your class
00:21:25.35\00:21:28.61
I represented your class
well all through the school.
00:21:28.64\00:21:30.91
When lot of people
say, how could you take her?
00:21:30.94\00:21:33.43
I said, because she is
gonna make sure you learn.
00:21:33.46\00:21:35.86
And one of the
things that I've learned
00:21:35.89\00:21:38.13
I'm being on education
but not found to school.
00:21:38.16\00:21:42.24
So I've learned how to
learn what applies to me
00:21:42.27\00:21:46.14
and how I can
utilize where I'm going.
00:21:46.17\00:21:48.55
And so with your
class one of the things
00:21:48.58\00:21:51.61
I personally have to say
00:21:51.64\00:21:53.70
that I took from your
class is the ability to speak.
00:21:53.73\00:21:57.34
Now you must be speakers.
So that's what fits me.
00:21:57.37\00:22:02.90
I learned how to do a outline
00:22:02.93\00:22:04.94
which I never knew
how to do a outline.
00:22:04.97\00:22:06.42
So now I'm working on
outlines as far as my testimony.
00:22:06.45\00:22:11.34
So overall you are
an amazing teacher.
00:22:11.37\00:22:13.60
I don't think.
Can you say it again?
00:22:13.63\00:22:17.86
You know-- Seriously though--
00:22:17.89\00:22:19.27
I appreciate that.
Praise God, praise God.
00:22:19.30\00:22:20.97
And I used to encourage,
try to encourage the students
00:22:21.00\00:22:25.12
telling them
listen, if you stick it out
00:22:25.15\00:22:27.47
she is not as bad as you think.
00:22:27.50\00:22:30.72
She just wants you to learn.
00:22:30.75\00:22:35.98
It's a standing thing with
me if I had taken your class--
00:22:36.01\00:22:40.27
You would have
dropped the class.
00:22:40.30\00:22:41.36
I would have dropped your class.
00:22:41.39\00:22:42.47
You know what, I been dropped,
I actually took the incomplete
00:22:42.50\00:22:45.90
but that was actually
because of my schedule.
00:22:45.93\00:22:47.33
Your schedule, we know that.
00:22:47.36\00:22:48.41
I found myself double scheduling
00:22:48.44\00:22:51.37
and I be like, wow,
okay, how did this even happen.
00:22:51.40\00:22:53.61
Wait, listen, listen, Ray.
00:22:53.64\00:22:55.76
Sometimes the Lord
works in mysterious way.
00:22:55.79\00:23:00.54
He blessed you.
00:23:00.57\00:23:01.91
But I'm actually
because of the class--
00:23:01.94\00:23:03.75
to me though
seriously it was easy.
00:23:03.78\00:23:06.64
It was easy because I wanted it.
00:23:06.67\00:23:08.01
I wanted and that
was the difference.
00:23:08.04\00:23:10.02
He braced
students in everything.
00:23:10.05\00:23:12.40
I believe that's
the key to anybody.
00:23:12.43\00:23:15.43
You know, when
you reached the point
00:23:15.46\00:23:18.19
especially with all the
chaos that was in your life
00:23:18.22\00:23:22.88
God was nudging at you
00:23:22.91\00:23:25.40
because He saw
something different from you
00:23:25.43\00:23:28.26
and sometimes we
don't even understand
00:23:28.29\00:23:30.67
and we know real
lives even before we make
00:23:30.70\00:23:33.67
a personal
relationship with the Lord
00:23:33.70\00:23:36.68
sometimes God can
put His hands on us
00:23:36.71\00:23:39.87
and say no, I'm not
gonna send you that way,
00:23:39.90\00:23:41.73
I'm gonna send you this way.
00:23:41.76\00:23:43.35
And all you have to do
just have a willingness
00:23:43.38\00:23:46.32
and you were sick
and tired of being--
00:23:46.35\00:23:49.18
You know what, it was,
I heard you speaking early
00:23:49.21\00:23:52.26
and say God knows
how to get our attention.
00:23:52.29\00:23:53.85
It was one of the things
00:23:53.88\00:23:54.92
where God had
to get my attention
00:23:54.95\00:23:56.48
because again we
are talking about
00:23:56.51\00:23:57.55
something that I
never believed in,
00:23:57.58\00:23:58.75
someone I never believed in.
00:23:58.78\00:24:00.55
And so when it was
time to give my attention
00:24:00.58\00:24:04.07
at that time in my life
00:24:04.10\00:24:06.08
when I was trying
to do the right thing.
00:24:06.11\00:24:08.49
He like, okay,
you're doing the right thing
00:24:08.52\00:24:10.07
but you are doing the
right thing in a wrong way.
00:24:10.10\00:24:12.48
Because you working
but you are not working
00:24:12.51\00:24:16.15
as Me in the work
that you are doing.
00:24:16.18\00:24:18.49
And so when the
cold case came up
00:24:18.52\00:24:22.16
that really like, okay, hold on.
00:24:22.19\00:24:23.24
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:24:23.27\00:24:24.31
I don't want to go back to jail.
00:24:24.34\00:24:25.46
If I want to go back to
jail I wouldn't be working.
00:24:25.49\00:24:27.59
And so like going back
to what you said God knew
00:24:27.62\00:24:33.00
that I was gonna have
to come to Him with a deal
00:24:33.03\00:24:35.19
with a willing heart
and dropped to My knee
00:24:35.22\00:24:38.35
and confess Jesus
is my Lord and Savior.
00:24:38.38\00:24:40.51
He say, okay you know what,
00:24:40.54\00:24:41.59
I know My son better
than he know himself.
00:24:41.62\00:24:44.05
Let Me just get his
attention with this case
00:24:44.08\00:24:47.02
and I know he did not commit.
00:24:47.05\00:24:49.09
It was so much I
could have went through
00:24:49.12\00:24:50.99
because of the things that I did
00:24:51.02\00:24:52.90
but it was
something that I did not do
00:24:52.93\00:24:55.35
but I refused to tell.
00:24:55.38\00:24:57.74
So it was like I'm a
breaking, I'm a breaking
00:24:57.77\00:25:02.18
and I head to crowd
and say okay, God, listen.
00:25:02.21\00:25:04.75
I need You right
now and if You help me
00:25:04.78\00:25:09.54
this is what I'm willing to do.
00:25:09.57\00:25:10.63
And He knew that
was I made that deal
00:25:10.66\00:25:12.71
because the handshake is better
than a contract if I'm booked.
00:25:12.74\00:25:15.50
So I was like
once you I confess,
00:25:15.53\00:25:17.22
okay, I will not do this.
00:25:17.25\00:25:18.84
If you help me He knew my heart
00:25:18.87\00:25:21.03
and at that
moment He had and I mean,
00:25:21.06\00:25:23.22
come one now we
are talking about God.
00:25:23.25\00:25:25.31
How is it we live in
a city of Detroit people
00:25:25.34\00:25:28.24
commit crime all day, every day?
00:25:28.27\00:25:30.30
They commit
murders, they go on assault.
00:25:30.33\00:25:32.49
Here it is I'm in a situation
being charged with a murder
00:25:32.52\00:25:35.23
I did not commit, even
though I had knowledge of
00:25:35.26\00:25:38.06
I'm not willing to
testify against it.
00:25:38.09\00:25:40.11
The person he is
not even a suspect,
00:25:40.14\00:25:43.00
God convicts him to come
00:25:43.03\00:25:45.49
and confess to a
crime he did not commit.
00:25:45.52\00:25:47.53
No, I'm not gonna tell
them that was nothing but God.
00:25:47.56\00:25:51.36
That was nothing but God.
00:25:51.39\00:25:52.46
And that's why it's so important
00:25:52.49\00:25:53.56
when you are in a situation
you turn it over to God
00:25:53.59\00:25:56.85
and you leave it there.
00:25:56.88\00:25:58.12
The Holy Spirit is the
one that convicts the heart.
00:25:58.15\00:26:01.15
Amen.
00:26:01.18\00:26:02.23
And you pray and all
guy needs to do is pray
00:26:02.26\00:26:05.37
and live and
come out of that rut
00:26:05.40\00:26:09.20
and God will turn
things around for us.
00:26:09.23\00:26:11.62
And then the process
of turning things around
00:26:11.65\00:26:14.52
it's not just
at a moderate pace,
00:26:14.55\00:26:18.05
so a slow pace.
00:26:18.08\00:26:19.36
It turns in around like
its just it boom, boom, boom
00:26:19.39\00:26:22.64
one thing is
happening after an another.
00:26:22.67\00:26:24.41
It will be so funny
because like me and you
00:26:24.44\00:26:27.04
we even tried to schedule--
we mean by in last two weeks
00:26:27.07\00:26:30.42
it was like go for our schedules
00:26:30.45\00:26:34.05
and to God be the glory,
00:26:34.08\00:26:35.63
that's what I was
telling my patient
00:26:35.66\00:26:36.69
because Friday made him
had quite a few meetings
00:26:36.72\00:26:40.53
and this was the
first time made him
00:26:40.56\00:26:41.94
actually walked hand in
hand outside the church.
00:26:41.97\00:26:44.95
And one of the
things that I told him
00:26:44.98\00:26:46.05
I said man,
Lord put in my spirit
00:26:46.08\00:26:47.42
because I've
never submitted to man,
00:26:47.45\00:26:49.25
never submitted to leadership.
00:26:49.28\00:26:51.11
But one of the things
that I'm willing to do
00:26:51.14\00:26:52.93
now is I'm not
gonna swallow this prayer
00:26:52.96\00:26:54.76
I'm gonna spit it out
00:26:54.79\00:26:56.63
and I'm gonna
submit to leadership.
00:26:56.66\00:26:59.71
You be my leader
and he said, wow.
00:26:59.74\00:27:02.76
He say and I said the only thing
00:27:02.79\00:27:03.85
that I need you to
be is be a father to me.
00:27:03.88\00:27:06.63
He said, I'm your spiritual dad.
00:27:06.66\00:27:07.75
I said, no, could the spirit,
00:27:07.78\00:27:09.01
sometime I not want
to deal my foolishness.
00:27:09.04\00:27:11.10
I need you to
be a natural father
00:27:11.13\00:27:12.59
is why because I
don't have a father.
00:27:12.62\00:27:14.47
And he said, you
have it son, you have it.
00:27:14.50\00:27:16.61
And so just than
a course of two days
00:27:16.64\00:27:19.37
my life has just prospered.
00:27:19.40\00:27:23.02
Well, I tell you,
well, we got about 30 seconds
00:27:23.05\00:27:25.42
and, you know,
what would you say
00:27:25.45\00:27:27.41
to someone in a
few words to say,
00:27:27.44\00:27:29.64
you know, no more bars?
00:27:29.67\00:27:32.63
You got to give
your life to Christ.
00:27:32.66\00:27:34.08
You got to acknowledge Christ.
00:27:34.11\00:27:35.46
If you don't acknowledge
that you will see bars.
00:27:35.49\00:27:38.50
I mean, seriously you have
to-- I mean, like seriously.
00:27:38.53\00:27:42.08
And how do you know you
will, just give Him a change.
00:27:42.11\00:27:45.23
That's it.
00:27:45.26\00:27:46.87
Well, we want you
to give God a chance
00:27:46.90\00:27:48.80
because He is waiting for
you and you don't have to go
00:27:48.83\00:27:51.71
through any
difficulty, no more bars.
00:27:51.74\00:27:55.16
Well, listen, I'm Kim Logan
00:27:55.19\00:27:56.84
and I want to thank Ray
Winns for being with us.
00:27:56.87\00:27:59.08
Thank you all for having me.
00:27:59.11\00:28:00.50
I'm Arthur Nowlins and I really
appreciate you've been here
00:28:00.53\00:28:03.28
and that's just monumental.
00:28:03.31\00:28:04.53
Thank you.
00:28:04.56\00:28:05.60
Thank you for joining us
00:28:05.63\00:28:06.75
on another episode
of "Making It Work."
00:28:06.78\00:28:09.10
God bless.
00:28:09.13\00:28:10.61