Participants: Arthur Nowlin (Host), Dr Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Dennis L. and Sarone Wallace
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000024
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00:01 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:02 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 00:03 Welcome to "Making It Work.." 00:36 Welcome back to "Making It Work." 00:38 Arthur, our topic today 00:41 "Have And To Hold, For Better Or For Worse." 00:43 What comes to mind when you hear, 00:45 have to hold, for better or for worse? 00:47 The marriage vows. 00:48 The marriage vows? 00:49 Yes. Okay. 00:50 It just sounds so significant now 00:53 and it sounds like something that I've heard 00:56 at the ceremonies on a consistent basis. 00:58 So that flashes to my mind immediately. 01:01 What are some of the components to have and to hold, 01:04 for better or for worse? 01:05 What do we need some of the ingredients? 01:07 It starts from positive communication. 01:08 I agree. 01:09 You know, being friends. Yes. 01:11 And also having ability to forgive. 01:14 Forgive. 01:15 I also think about spirituality 01:17 and the importance of having spirituality 01:19 because that to me is the glue to the relationship. 01:21 Well, today on our program we have two lovely people, 01:25 man and wife having to hold for better for worse. 01:28 We want to welcome to making it work. 01:31 Mr. and Mrs. Dennis and Sarone Wallace, welcome. 01:34 Thank you. Thank you so much. 01:36 Listen, we want you to tell us your testimony. 01:39 Will you do that for us? 01:40 Of course. 01:41 All right, tell us how you met? 01:43 Where you went to school? 01:45 Tell us your story. 01:46 Well prior to meeting her just give you 01:48 a quick little background 01:49 how my mother was murdered when I was five. 01:51 My father was murdered when I was six-years-old. 01:53 Grew up in a system pretty much, 01:55 didn't know God, 01:57 didn't know too much about the Bible. 01:59 At the time I was a fugitive and Brother Todd 02:03 who I had been introduced to by Jack and Shelton Bright 02:06 who later became my parents. 02:09 Gave me a opportunity to work at Camp Wagner 02:13 in Cassopolis, Michigan. 02:14 Okay. 02:16 I got to work there in the kitchen 02:17 but prior to meeting her 02:19 hired the other day before he had hired her 02:21 also to work in the kitchen. 02:22 Okay. And I was a supervisor. 02:23 All right. 02:25 Now I recognized her before 02:26 because she also went to Maranatha 02:29 where her father was the pastor 02:30 Pastor Charles Willis. 02:31 And Maranatha is a Seventh-day Adventist Church 02:33 in Detroit, Michigan, Okay. 02:36 And I was there in East Lansing group from Barnes 02:38 and I saw her doing some things up for 02:40 and I was impressed by her. 02:42 Later on I would see her at Barnes 02:44 for graduation, get ready for a coronation. 02:47 Okay, so you saw on different occasions? 02:49 I saw her in different occasions. 02:50 All right, then from camp you were on 02:52 and you met each other and you started dating 02:53 at Oakwood University, Huntsville, Alabama. 02:55 No, we actually started dating in Camp Wagner 02:58 and all of these while we went to Oakwood was because 03:01 I didn't want, I didn't want her to go down 03:03 and meet any of the smart guys. 03:04 Okay. 03:06 So I jumped on a Greyhound bus, 03:09 duffel bag, a couple hundred dollars 03:11 and diploma from Oakwood-- 03:13 from Mountain High School to 1.7 GPA, 03:16 no SAT's, no ACT's, hadn't taken a test and so-- 03:21 And you just drove down Oakwood? 03:23 Just drove down Oakwood. 03:25 Someone at the bus station, 03:27 you know, too me actually took me to the college 03:30 where I took the interest test and failed it miserably. 03:35 They put me on academic probation 03:37 and so then she came down 03:39 and I got to reunited with mine now new girl friend. 03:43 Oh, okay. 03:44 I so happened when you came down and-- 03:45 When you saw him. 03:47 I was ecstatic, I was happy to see him 03:49 and I just-- week I asked him 03:52 what he had done already to get in the school, 03:54 where he was staying, was he in the dorm. 03:56 So I helped him go through the process of applying 04:00 and getting into helping 04:02 fill out the forms to get in the school. 04:03 Okay. 04:05 And then once he got into school 04:07 like he said he was on academic probation 04:09 so then I had showed him the library on campus 04:12 and how to study, how to do research, 04:14 how to, you know, organize his time 04:18 and he made the Dean's List in the first semester. 04:21 Well, so you dated all the time. 04:23 You both graduate from Oakwood University? 04:26 Yes, we will I grew in graduating. 04:28 We had, we had a child our sophomore, 04:31 our junior year and my senior year. 04:33 You had children? 04:34 Yeah. Yes. 04:35 That were you married? 04:36 Yes. 04:37 Wait a minute, okay when did you all get married? 04:40 Summer of-- 04:41 July 31st 1993. 04:44 Is that your freshman year? Was it your freshmen year? 04:45 That was after our freshmen year. 04:46 So knew that was it 04:48 and you said I'm gonna marry this man. 04:50 And so, you know, you had three children. 04:53 All right, but Dennis you stayed in school 04:55 and you finished your degree. 04:57 All right what was your degree in? 04:58 Theology. 04:59 You graduated in theology. 05:00 So you graduated in theology. 05:01 Never had any ides 05:04 that this is something that you want to be? 05:06 No idea. 05:08 Actually I went, I went to Oakwood, 05:09 I wasn't going Oakwood to go to school. 05:11 When I was already running 05:14 as I said I was afraid from the police 05:16 I had already been here hiding 05:19 in the shelter over there ride down from Barnes-- 05:22 In Detroit. In Detroit. 05:23 So you know police not going to a shelter 05:25 to look for anybody and they are not checking 05:27 too many collage, college campus either. 05:29 So you were still on the run when you were at Huntsville? 05:31 Yes. 05:32 You are still on the run, you are fugitive? 05:33 Yes. 05:34 Okay, so after you graduated, 05:37 you know, and Sarone you didn't graduate, 05:40 graduate so after you graduated 05:41 you guys made a decision to come back here? 05:44 Well, what happened was 05:46 I was working with Eric Thomas. 05:48 We had a-- well he a program 05:50 called Breaking the Cycle 05:52 and I would get on a radio with him every now and then. 05:55 I was also working with Mayor Loretta Spencer 05:57 with my-- because he leaves ministries 06:00 and so we had a lot of campus things. 06:02 We did a very first family fun day in Merry Hills 06:05 sat on the way to see committee. 06:07 So we were doing-- 06:08 So you have lot of things going on. 06:09 Right. Okay. 06:10 We are doing some things in Huntsville 06:11 but if somebody get home sick 06:13 and I told her Detroit is not a good place for me to be. 06:18 We were expecting to get a call, 06:19 you know, matter of fact 06:20 I was so confident that I was going to get one. 06:22 I didn't send one resume out of them in that region. 06:26 So at the time I was really full of myself, 06:28 you know, Samuel Thomas told me that 06:31 when they had preached a new life at Clermont Church. 06:35 and I was associate pastor. 06:37 And he told me I was gonna be the next EE 06:39 and my head began to swell 06:41 and I was going places preaching 06:42 and people were being baptized and, 06:46 when I didn't get that call it just, it crushed me. 06:49 Yeah. 06:50 And so I tried to do things 06:52 outside of the Adventist church, 06:54 so he is doing ministry and it didn't catch on either. 06:56 So we move back Detroit. 06:58 I was pretty much you know, had given up. 07:02 I sent out other resumes nothing happened 07:05 and so I had given up 07:06 and so we were staying with her parents 07:08 and that didn't work quite well. 07:09 And so my whole life 07:11 a friend from my old past came by 07:15 and he told me, said man, 07:16 look you know, you still you always be hustler. 07:19 You know, I understand what you try to do 07:21 but God don't want you, bro. 07:25 That's what your friend said? 07:26 That's what my friend said. Well, actually my cousin. 07:28 Okay. 07:29 So-- 07:30 And go with his line of work? 07:32 Selling drugs. Selling drugs. 07:34 So I got back into drug business, Tinto's flat. 07:36 So you're living with your in-laws? 07:39 Live with in-laws. 07:40 And you have three babies. 07:42 Three babies. 07:43 And your cousin had indicated to you 07:48 that God doesn't want you, bro? 07:50 Right, and you would just wouldn't as simple as that. 07:52 See I learned the book at Oakwood. 07:56 I learned theology at Oakwood. 07:57 I leaned how to be a preacher at Oakwood. 07:59 I learned how to be an Adventist at Oakwood 08:01 but I didn't have any faith. 08:03 See I was self sufficient, 08:05 I had been so self sufficient my whole life. 08:06 I've always been able to do things, 08:08 so when I got home 08:09 I gave it a chance okay, trying to get to work, 08:11 try to give her father and do some things 08:14 and didn't happen. 08:15 Was ready to get out of the house so, 08:17 I went right back to doing what I'm used to do 08:20 and we moved out, move into North Park Towers. 08:24 How? 08:25 And I'm-- 08:26 So became very lucrative for you? 08:28 So my plan was just to do a little bit 08:30 and then, you know, I was angry at the church. 08:32 I was mad. 08:33 Because they didn't give you a call? 08:35 Because I don't get a call. 08:36 So weren't you ashamed. 08:37 You know you husband was selling drugs? 08:38 You knew. 08:40 Not in the beginning. 08:41 Not in the very beginning. 08:42 Not even in the middle. 08:45 She kind of had idea of what I was doing 08:48 but it wasn't into I would like really came clean 08:52 because one thing I can always tell you 08:54 about my wife is that 08:56 you can't do anything too bad or too horrible to where 09:01 you know, she'll judge you or treat you a certain way. 09:04 That was the one of the reasons why 09:05 when I first came to church you know, 09:06 comes to Adventist as a single man, 09:09 you know, you can like have a choice 09:11 but she was my choice because she was patient, she waited 09:15 and she showed me what I thought for Christian-- 09:18 I know what a Christian look like, 09:20 I would have thought that as it would look like 09:21 would had to look like her. 09:23 Okay so Sarone, I'm gonna asking this. 09:24 Now you know, you had three babies, 09:26 you know, your husband is now, 09:27 you know he is selling drugs did you ever say 09:29 listen, you got to stop this or I'm gone. 09:32 All right, did you ever say that? 09:33 That didn't happen until right before he got arrested. 09:37 Okay, tell me what happened, Sarone. 09:39 I had been praying and praying and praying 09:41 going to church without him, doing all this stuff 09:45 but always pray Lord, save him 09:47 but don't take him away from me. 09:49 Save him but don't hurt him. 09:52 You know, I was giving God conditions. 09:54 And then about two weeks he had went through-- 09:59 he was not only selling 10:00 but this time he was using very heavily. 10:02 Using what? 10:03 Cocaine. Cocaine. 10:05 He was using cocaine very heavily and it was, 10:07 it was just at that point it got too much for me. 10:10 He will be gone I'll be, my kids will be at the house 10:13 I will lock them up 10:15 and I be in the car looking all around for him 10:16 just driving not knowing where I was going. 10:19 Mercy. 10:20 And I would just be like okay, and I'll come back home. 10:23 And then two weeks 10:25 prior to him getting arrested I prayed to Lord, 10:27 I mean, I would stand in the window 10:29 upstairs bedroom and I said Lord, 10:30 whatever takes to save him, save him. 10:32 I don't care anymore, I just want him safe. 10:35 How by whatever means necessary. 10:37 Mercy. 10:38 So what happened with charge 10:40 that you was originally running from? 10:43 Well actually in 95 10:46 I was wanting to leave in Oakwood, 10:47 I left Oakwood, we came back home. 10:51 I was raising some, 10:53 I worked at, I worked at Westside Chevrolet 10:56 and so we had Camaro's and a friend of mine 10:58 worked at Ford Company they had Mustangs. 11:01 So we raced one night and I ended up 11:03 getting caught the following day 11:06 and I just started running. 11:07 So normally when I get pulled over 11:08 I would just saying something they wouldn't let me go. 11:11 This time I just told them and said look, 11:12 you guys are looking for me. 11:13 My name is Dennis Wallace. Here's my id. 11:17 He didn't believe me, he went back there 11:19 and then he was like yeah, 11:20 we've been looking for you for a long time. 11:22 And so they took me to jail 11:25 and I end up meeting Elder David Baxter 11:29 who was a court clerk at the clerk 11:31 and he's also an elder at the church. 11:32 Okay, hold on. 11:34 So this is the first child or? 11:35 This is the first child. 11:36 The very first child. First child. 11:38 So now want to say okay. 11:39 I was actually pregnant with our middle child, 11:43 Steven at the time. 11:45 Now we got to say first child, 11:46 that's the first child I had when I was with her. 11:48 All right. Right, Okay. 11:50 But with-- Right. Okay. Right. Right. 11:52 And so that scared me. 11:55 You know, she already knew what was at stake. 11:57 We discussed this a thousand times, 11:59 had planned on what to do, what to put up. 12:02 So-- You had preventive right. 12:03 So we knew that one day this was gonna happen 12:06 and not just that but I always want the turn myself in. 12:09 I wanted to just get it over with. 12:11 So we finally got it over with. 12:13 Like I said Elder Baxter was a clerk there. 12:15 Her father came and spoke on my behalf. 12:18 The judge actually said that you've done more 12:20 on these last two years at Oakwood 12:22 and you've done your whole life. 12:24 And so we're gonna continue with the probation 12:27 that you've already violated several times 12:29 but you have to go back to Oakwood. 12:31 Wow. 12:32 That was the stipulation that he had. 12:33 And at the time I was just a social work major, 12:36 now I'm the theology major. 12:38 Wow. 12:39 So now I've seen God do some things 12:41 but I'm still not quite sure yet 12:43 so I go back this time as theology major 12:45 and I'm on fire now. 12:46 You are on fire. 12:48 Vegan, there's I'm studying, 12:51 I'm preacher everywhere I can go. 12:53 I'm telling anybody who wants to know 12:55 or even if you don't want to know. 12:57 We're going in the parties, we're going everywhere. 12:58 I was like really on fire at that time of my life. 13:00 Let me stop you. 13:01 For those who don't know what a vegan is, 13:02 vegan is a individual does not use any dairy products, 13:06 eat any meat or any type of poultry any aspects 13:09 especially nothing is all from the ground. 13:12 All right so you eating nut, fruits and vegetables, 13:15 all right. 13:16 And so you back at Oakwood. 13:17 Back at Oakwood. 13:18 And you stayed there till you got your degree there. 13:20 Stay there, got a few jobs, 13:21 got my degree at Oakwood theology 13:24 like I have say, I was waiting for a call 13:26 it didn't happen, disappointed. 13:27 And that's why when you guys came back 13:29 and live with your parents. 13:30 Live with our parents. 13:32 Now I still was trying to go to church. 13:33 I was still trying to do somethings. 13:34 Her father was trying to, you know, 13:36 he would allow me to speak at different places 13:38 and it just, it just wasn't the same anymore because-- 13:41 Okay, so when you started back in the world 13:44 and you need to start doing those things 13:48 how long did that last? 13:49 Did you get charge or did something happen 13:52 and you get arrested for something else? 13:56 No, actually what happened was 13:58 this guy kept calling me over and over and over again 14:01 and you know in the game that I was in, 14:03 you know, first of all no. 14:05 Once I told you no, that wasn't gonna happen it was no. 14:08 He wanted me to come out to a certain location 14:10 he wanted to bring something with me. 14:12 I just told my wife she just told me, that's it. 14:15 So I had to get rid of mostly everything 14:18 and I had here's something else in the basement 14:20 but I had got mostly really everything 14:22 and I wasn't reopen anymore. 14:25 You told I'm getting rid off of the cocaine now. 14:26 Yeah, I was getting rid of all. 14:27 So the cocaine was in the house with your wife and children. 14:30 Well, no, I had-- well sometimes 14:31 it was but I had and I was like in brief moments 14:34 where I had to stop and go. 14:36 I had places that I would, 14:39 you know, keep drugs, I don't have drugs 14:41 and I never tried to 14:44 and that's when I guess sloppier 14:46 toward the end because I was sniffing 14:47 so much cocaine myself that, 14:50 you know, my whole face would just be, 14:51 would just be numb. 14:53 And I never thought I had a problem 14:54 because to me it was all mine 14:57 and so I would just put more cut 14:59 on the people stuff that I was selling. 15:00 So your relationship with the Lord had deteriorated? 15:03 Slowly by slowly, I will start to coming to church 15:06 and I have my region up everywhere. 15:08 On the one night I went got three tattoos done at one night 15:11 hoping that her father was gonna say some. 15:13 I was looking for someone to say something to me. 15:15 I didn't want to as for help. 15:16 I will pull up to our church music blast 15:19 and had a truck then and, you know, different kinds. 15:21 I would just pull up with music blasting and smoking weed 15:24 hoping someone would say something to me. 15:26 And no one ever did, Dennis? 15:27 No. 15:28 I came up one time with blood all over my shirt 15:31 and you know, I mean, 15:33 I was really hoping as someone would say something to me. 15:36 People were just afraid. 15:38 Where was the blood from? 15:39 Something in-- 15:40 I had jumped on a couple guys on them, 15:43 Blackhawk 7, street hawk 7, well, I got into what 12 rage 15:45 and they are pulling the car and just, okay. 15:50 All right, now I got to get you over to now 15:51 you went to the guy, you didn't, 15:54 because we only have about 10 min. 15:56 We got to get in 10 minutes. 15:57 So tell me what has happened 16:00 that caused you to get arrested? 16:01 Let's get to this. 16:02 Okay, well happy to call give me the calls 16:04 I had been arrested. 16:05 She gave me ultimatum that money 16:07 I was suppose to start a rehab. 16:08 so the guy kept calling me back, 16:09 calling me back and he was an informant. 16:12 I don't know really was at the time 16:14 he was an informant 16:15 and he worked for the sonic tasks force. 16:18 By the time I come back out there 16:20 they had new everything and all they really want was 16:23 my phone because everything was inside of my phone. 16:26 They knew I had drugs on me 16:27 but they really wasted interesting that. 16:29 They knew it was on the phone the-- 16:30 The contacts. 16:31 Right. So-- 16:33 And they got you? 16:34 Yes. 16:35 Okay, and you were like dubbed 16:36 when they got you that night or, yes. 16:38 Yes, they locked me up that night 16:40 and so my life changed. 16:44 I ended up getting sentence to 10 to 40 years of prison. 16:48 Well, why so much though? 16:50 I mean, why was it 10 to 40? 16:51 Because how much, because how much it was. 16:52 Your record? 16:54 No, how much drugs I had-- 16:55 So it was mandatory. 16:56 Right. 16:57 Oh, God. 16:58 And where was she and, where were you at this time? 17:00 Did he called you and tell you what was going on? 17:01 Yeah, I was at home. 17:03 I was going from the comeback because seems like this is-- 17:04 I told it is my last work. 17:06 Yeah, he says this is my last time. 17:07 He told you that? 17:08 Yeah, and he was coming back 17:10 and I made Rose lay on the couch 17:12 and I got a collect call and I didn't believe it. 17:19 I didn't believe it. 17:20 Because you just told God whatever it takes. 17:21 Whatever it takes. 17:23 Well, he said it was his last one 17:25 and in terms it really was his last one, you know. 17:28 Well, seriously it really was. 17:29 It was. 17:31 So your phone rings what happens? 17:34 I just remember being now I couldn't call-- 17:37 I didn't want to call my parents. 17:39 I didn't know who to call until I didn't talk to anybody 17:42 I don't think until the next day 17:44 or so what he was like you better call these people, 17:46 you know, he gave me a list to call. 17:48 I called his cousin and, you know, 17:50 I was trying to figure out where we're gonna 17:52 because I wasn't working at the time. 17:53 I was in school, back to school full-time. 17:56 And so can't figure out 17:57 what in the world we were gonna do. 17:59 Working, you know, he had a full time job. 18:02 It wasn't like he wasn't working 18:03 he had a full time job 18:05 that he worked 40 hours a week sometimes more. 18:08 So I had to you know, go up there 18:09 and deal with that and, I'm dealing with the kids. 18:12 You know, my youngest was five-years-old. 18:16 So I have five, six, and seven-year-old. 18:19 So dealing with them and trying to figure out, you know, 18:23 they didn't go to school 18:24 for almost I think about two weeks 18:27 till my best friend called me 18:29 and she was like, what's going on? 18:30 And I said I can get up. I can't do anything. 18:33 So you became really depressed? 18:34 I became really depressed. 18:35 Okay. 18:37 And she helped out a lot. 18:40 She came in and she took the kids to school 18:41 for me every day. 18:43 And she had a job so she was sacrificing 18:46 and then we just went through the process again the lawyer 18:50 and going through the trial 18:53 and he kept saying is going to workout, 18:55 I'm coming home, I'm coming home 18:56 and I kept believing okay you are gonna come home 18:58 and he didn't come home. 18:59 He didn't you feel when you in the courtroom 19:02 and the judge said 10 to 40 years? 19:04 I lost it. 19:06 Right there. 19:07 I went out, I heard its like to go out to courtroom room 19:10 because I really didn't want him to see me like that. 19:12 We heard all up and down the hallway. 19:14 But I let out, it was just I lost it in the hallway. 19:18 I just cried like hysterically like a baby 19:21 because I went from my parent's house to him 19:24 I've never been on my own. 19:25 Never been on your own. 19:26 I didn't know what that meant. 19:28 So now you face on being on your own. 19:30 With three children. With three children. 19:33 So what was going through your mind, 19:35 you know, when the judge said 10 to 40? 19:37 Well, to me I knew it was over. 19:41 You know, I knew it was over. 19:43 I thought that she was gonna go and I told her. 19:45 Okay so you felt that your family was gone 19:48 and everything is complete? 19:51 I have been through the system before and never like this. 19:55 So it was different and I want to hear it, 19:57 I want the--I wanted her to go on with her life. 20:01 But you know it was like final for me, 20:04 it was I knew I had to, 20:06 I knew it was time to go to war. 20:07 I knew it was time to get my mind right. 20:09 I could think about the world, 20:10 I could think about home 20:12 and I knew I had to get, 20:13 you know, mentally ready 20:15 for what I was getting ready to go face, so. 20:18 Did they help you get clean in prison? 20:19 No. 20:22 Everything that she found out here-- 20:23 It's in this. It's in this, It's right there. 20:25 Yeah. So you-- 20:26 What get me clean was I was glad, 20:29 I was really tired at the streets, 20:31 I was really tired. 20:32 And I could still hear God telling me, 20:35 you know, it wasn't as easy to do what I was doing 20:37 with the contacts that I had and it was killing me 20:39 and that lead to more usage, 20:42 trying to numb God's voice, trying to stop hearing Him. 20:45 You know calling me no one else supposedly doing this. 20:47 You will something automatically 20:49 and pop in my mind I'm looking-- 20:51 I'm still exigent text I'm like oh, come on man, 20:54 you got to stop doing this so. 20:56 In prison I just got to the point where I thought, 20:58 you know, well, maybe God was not for me. 21:00 Maybe I got this wrong 21:02 and I started continuing study and search and search 21:06 and met a Muslim brother who was a Sunni 21:08 and he explained to me. 21:09 He said look, your problem is that 21:11 I shmael was the first born not Isaac 21:14 and you are following the wrong one. 21:16 Tell us what a Sunni is. 21:17 A Sunni is Orthodox Islam, he is a Muslim 21:20 and he studies and he believes that 21:25 there's only one god and god is Allah. 21:28 They believe that Jesus is a good man and a good prophet. 21:31 But wasn't that a conflict you 21:32 being Seventh-day Adventist and the teachings? 21:34 Well, the only thing I loved about it was 21:36 imprisoned Christians are kind of weak, 21:39 we are not kind of they are. 21:41 Muslims tend to stand up even to anybody 21:44 and then the Sunni Muslims they include all races, 21:48 all people so that seem more real to me 21:51 than being nation of Islamic and all the other things. 21:54 And so the way they pray, 21:55 how they prostrate themselves on the ground to makes-- 21:58 So that empowered you? 21:59 That empowered me in the cleaning-- 22:00 So you saw European-American that was in prison 22:04 and African-American and Spanish 22:07 speaking in America, they were Sunni's? 22:09 They were Sunnis. 22:10 So how did this time you are around 22:12 because now you looking 10 to 40 22:14 but not knowing what Gods gonna make you to do. 22:16 Well, I'm looking at just 10 to 40 22:17 and I'm just trying to do my time, 22:18 trying to stay out of way. 22:20 You know 10 years is a long time 22:22 but that's just a minimum 22:24 and I knew that my tail being lonely in there 22:26 with my temper and it pops that I kept get into 22:29 I was gonna get in trouble. 22:30 And Sarone, what was going on at home 22:32 with you and the children? We made a promise. 22:33 You made a promise, what was that? 22:34 I promised to take care of her in there 22:36 and for her to take care of me on here. 22:39 I won't put you in a situation 22:40 where you lose me for any more times. 22:42 Don't put me in a situation out there where, 22:45 you know something else has to happen. 22:47 So we promised to take care of each other 22:50 and to make sure that no matter what happen 22:53 at the end of this we will go, we'll be gonna be all right. 22:56 Did you take the children to see them? 22:58 Yeah, not as much as he wanted me to 23:02 or there was time 23:03 because we were still going through issues. 23:05 There were things that weren't resolved. 23:07 Were you angry? I was very angry. 23:09 I was very angry. You was. 23:11 I was very angry and very hurt 23:15 and it wasn't what I signed up for. 23:20 I knew he had been on the run. 23:21 I don't know if I was naive. 23:25 I had to leave Detroit. 23:26 I had to go where my parents were. 23:28 I moved way into an apartment 23:30 I couldn't afford, lost that apartment. 23:33 Want to live with my parents, now its four of us 23:36 living with my parents in a three-bedroom apartment. 23:40 Now let me ask you this, okay, 23:43 you get out alone, you didn't do 10 years. 23:45 No. Okay. 23:46 You know what happened. 23:47 You have five minutes to tell us. 23:48 Okay, what happened was, 23:49 you know I ended up denouncing Islam because, 23:52 you know, as after further study I found out 23:55 that prior to take shahada 23:58 that I was worsening for them Allah could not bless me 24:00 so as I look back my life-- 24:02 What's shahada? 24:03 It's like an oath or prayer they keep take to come in. 24:06 Okay. 24:08 It's like accepting Jesus in your heart, you know. 24:10 So anyway finding out I denounced, 24:15 I said I want to be a Christian. 24:18 Got into a situation where you know, they had to move me. 24:23 Accepted Christianity four-time, promise God 24:25 that when I got out that-- my first promise was that 24:29 when I get out is not let me out to have changed. 24:31 So now that He had worked with me 24:33 and I had promised Him that no matter 24:35 what I do when I get out that, 24:37 you know, I was gonna tell everybody I could 24:39 about who He has been to me, 24:42 that if you just give me my family 24:43 because Sarone had filed for divorce. 24:47 And so at the end and I decide-- 24:49 I trusted I would do anything whatever it is 24:51 but I have to have my children back. 24:53 I found out that three out of four children 24:55 who are having conservative parent 24:57 become conservative themselves. 24:58 I have four children so I had to choose which one. 25:00 I said none. 25:01 So I had to think about my things, 25:03 there were some things I had to do differently, 25:04 I had to man up. 25:06 I had to recreate myself, 25:08 I had to think about my thinking change 25:10 my choice points and after first thing 25:12 I need to do I needed to come back and date my girl. 25:15 I needed to date her, 25:16 I needed to show her that I'm not the same person 25:18 that I could be the man that she met 25:20 and I was gonna-- and I told, 25:22 I said you can keep your boyfriend. 25:23 But you got out when? You got out-- 25:26 Hey, guys, we got three minutes. 25:27 You got out-- 25:28 So what was the decision, 25:30 I mean, want probation office-- 25:32 Well, the law changed. 25:33 Oh yeah. 25:34 Oh, yeah, the law changed. 25:35 That was the cocaine law. 25:36 You're right the drug law changed in 93. 25:38 Yeah, okay. 25:40 Oh, 2000. 25:41 It changed and so everything was different now, 25:46 you know, he didn't have to do the full 10 years, 25:49 you know, he only had to do the five. 25:50 So I say God rewrote the law for me. I always say He did. 25:52 Yes, He did. Yes, He did. 25:54 He allowed me to get out a little earlier 25:55 or five years earlier and I've been able to do 25:58 some wonderful things since I've been home. 26:00 I've been preaching everywhere. 26:02 We have our own little program, "He Said, She Said" 26:05 that we do for marriage, you know, counseling. 26:07 We have our program Third Doubt, 26:09 Transition Home using God's Gifts, 26:11 Education Discipleship of these understanding in trust. 26:14 I know and I'm so happy that the children doing well 26:17 because I see them with you out and about. 26:19 We have about a minute Sarone, tell me what you doing now? 26:21 You said you finish your undergrad in accounting? 26:23 Yes, I did. What are you doing now? 26:25 I'm working on my Masters in Business Administration 26:27 with a concentration 26:28 in international business and corporate finance. 26:30 That is wonderful. And Dennis, you? 26:32 Case manager at Southwest Solutions supportive services 26:35 for veterans and families. 26:36 I'm also working on my masters my MSW at USC 26:39 with a concentration on Veteran Affairs. 26:41 And USC is what? 26:42 University of Southern California. 26:44 Oh, wow. That is wonderful. 26:46 Excellent. 26:47 Well, we talk about have and to 26:49 why didn't you leave Sarone, you could have left 26:51 for better for worse you could have left, why not? 26:55 I thought about it, I did the paperwork to do it 26:58 and then God said no. 27:00 He came home, my husband reclaimed me 27:03 and God put us back together 27:06 and said this is what I meant, 27:08 you guys said for ever and I think if the vows 27:12 that no man put us that means even us. 27:14 We want you to tell our viewers today, 27:16 how to make it work? 27:18 What do they need to do in these last 30 seconds? 27:21 You have to love her, pass your vows, 27:24 past the vows and be committed to your commitment, 27:27 that's it and got to be committed beyond your vows. 27:30 Sarone? 27:31 Forgiveness. 27:33 Forgiveness and unconditional, unconditional love. 27:38 Well, to have into whole are they closing remarks? 27:40 Well, I think we are blessed 27:43 to have this couple with us today. 27:46 I think the opportunity is there for anybody 27:49 to overcome tragedy and difficulty. 27:52 The Lord has spared your life for a moment just like this. 27:56 So I encourage you 27:57 and I really support both of you 28:00 in everything that you do. 28:02 Well, listen, we love you, God bless you. 28:05 I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin. 28:06 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 28:07 To have and to hold, make it work. God bless you. 28:10 Make it work. |
Revised 2015-05-11