Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
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And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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Welcome to "Making It Work.."
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Welcome back to
"Making It Work."
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Arthur, our topic today
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"Have And To Hold,
For Better Or For Worse."
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What comes to
mind when you hear,
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have to hold, for
better or for worse?
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The marriage vows.
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The marriage vows?
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Yes. Okay.
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It just sounds
so significant now
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and it sounds like
something that I've heard
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at the ceremonies
on a consistent basis.
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So that flashes to
my mind immediately.
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What are some of the
components to have and to hold,
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for better or for worse?
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What do we need
some of the ingredients?
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It starts from
positive communication.
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I agree.
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You know, being friends. Yes.
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And also having
ability to forgive.
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Forgive.
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I also think about spirituality
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and the importance
of having spirituality
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because that to me is
the glue to the relationship.
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Well, today on our program
we have two lovely people,
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man and wife having to
hold for better for worse.
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We want to
welcome to making it work.
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Mr. and Mrs. Dennis and
Sarone Wallace, welcome.
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Thank you. Thank you so much.
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Listen, we want you to
tell us your testimony.
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Will you do that for us?
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Of course.
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All right, tell us how you met?
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Where you went to school?
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Tell us your story.
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Well prior to
meeting her just give you
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a quick little background
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how my mother was
murdered when I was five.
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My father was murdered
when I was six-years-old.
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Grew up in a system pretty much,
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didn't know God,
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didn't know too
much about the Bible.
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At the time I was a
fugitive and Brother Todd
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who I had been introduced
to by Jack and Shelton Bright
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who later became my parents.
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Gave me a opportunity
to work at Camp Wagner
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in Cassopolis, Michigan.
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Okay.
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I got to work
there in the kitchen
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but prior to meeting her
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hired the other day
before he had hired her
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also to work in the kitchen.
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Okay. And I was a supervisor.
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All right.
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Now I recognized her before
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because she also
went to Maranatha
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where her father was the pastor
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Pastor Charles Willis.
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And Maranatha is a
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in Detroit, Michigan, Okay.
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And I was there in East
Lansing group from Barnes
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and I saw her
doing some things up for
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and I was impressed by her.
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Later on I would
see her at Barnes
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for graduation, get
ready for a coronation.
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Okay, so you saw on
different occasions?
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I saw her in
different occasions.
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All right, then
from camp you were on
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and you met each
other and you started dating
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at Oakwood
University, Huntsville, Alabama.
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No, we actually
started dating in Camp Wagner
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and all of these while we
went to Oakwood was because
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I didn't want, I
didn't want her to go down
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and meet any of the smart guys.
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Okay.
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So I jumped on a Greyhound bus,
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duffel bag, a
couple hundred dollars
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and diploma from Oakwood--
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from Mountain
High School to 1.7 GPA,
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no SAT's, no ACT's,
hadn't taken a test and so--
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And you just drove down Oakwood?
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Just drove down Oakwood.
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Someone at the bus station,
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you know, too me
actually took me to the college
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where I took the interest
test and failed it miserably.
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They put me on
academic probation
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and so then she came down
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and I got to reunited
with mine now new girl friend.
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Oh, okay.
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I so happened when
you came down and--
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When you saw him.
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I was ecstatic, I
was happy to see him
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and I just-- week I asked him
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what he had done
already to get in the school,
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where he was
staying, was he in the dorm.
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So I helped him go
through the process of applying
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and getting into helping
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fill out the forms
to get in the school.
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Okay.
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And then once he got into school
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like he said he was
on academic probation
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so then I had showed
him the library on campus
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and how to study,
how to do research,
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how to, you
know, organize his time
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and he made the Dean's
List in the first semester.
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Well, so you dated all the time.
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You both graduate
from Oakwood University?
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Yes, we will I
grew in graduating.
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We had, we had a
child our sophomore,
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our junior year
and my senior year.
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You had children?
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Yeah. Yes.
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That were you married?
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Yes.
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Wait a minute, okay
when did you all get married?
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Summer of--
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July 31st 1993.
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Is that your freshman
year? Was it your freshmen year?
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That was after
our freshmen year.
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So knew that was it
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and you said I'm
gonna marry this man.
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And so, you know,
you had three children.
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All right, but
Dennis you stayed in school
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and you finished your degree.
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All right what
was your degree in?
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Theology.
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You graduated in theology.
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So you graduated in theology.
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Never had any ides
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that this is
something that you want to be?
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No idea.
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Actually I went,
I went to Oakwood,
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I wasn't going
Oakwood to go to school.
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When I was already running
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as I said I was
afraid from the police
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I had already been here hiding
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in the shelter over
there ride down from Barnes--
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In Detroit. In Detroit.
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So you know police
not going to a shelter
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to look for anybody
and they are not checking
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too many collage,
college campus either.
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So you were still on the
run when you were at Huntsville?
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Yes.
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You are still on the
run, you are fugitive?
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Yes.
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Okay, so after you graduated,
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you know, and
Sarone you didn't graduate,
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graduate so after you graduated
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you guys made a
decision to come back here?
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Well, what happened was
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I was working with Eric Thomas.
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We had a-- well he a program
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called Breaking the Cycle
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and I would get on a radio
with him every now and then.
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I was also working
with Mayor Loretta Spencer
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with my-- because
he leaves ministries
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and so we had a
lot of campus things.
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We did a very first
family fun day in Merry Hills
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sat on the way to see committee.
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So we were doing--
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So you have lot
of things going on.
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Right. Okay.
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We are doing some
things in Huntsville
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but if somebody get home sick
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and I told her Detroit is
not a good place for me to be.
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We were expecting to get a call,
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you know, matter of fact
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I was so confident
that I was going to get one.
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I didn't send one resume
out of them in that region.
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So at the time I was
really full of myself,
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you know, Samuel
Thomas told me that
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when they had preached a
new life at Clermont Church.
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and I was associate pastor.
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And he told me I
was gonna be the next EE
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and my head began to swell
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and I was going places preaching
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and people were
being baptized and,
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when I didn't get that
call it just, it crushed me.
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Yeah.
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And so I tried to do things
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outside of the Adventist church,
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so he is doing ministry
and it didn't catch on either.
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So we move back Detroit.
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I was pretty much
you know, had given up.
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I sent out other
resumes nothing happened
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and so I had given up
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and so we were
staying with her parents
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and that didn't work quite well.
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And so my whole life
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a friend from
my old past came by
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and he told me, said man,
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look you know, you
still you always be hustler.
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You know, I
understand what you try to do
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but God don't want you, bro.
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That's what your friend said?
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That's what my friend
said. Well, actually my cousin.
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Okay.
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So--
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And go with his line of work?
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Selling drugs. Selling drugs.
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So I got back into
drug business, Tinto's flat.
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So you're living
with your in-laws?
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Live with in-laws.
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And you have three babies.
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Three babies.
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And your cousin
had indicated to you
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that God doesn't want you, bro?
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Right, and you would just
wouldn't as simple as that.
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See I learned
the book at Oakwood.
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I learned theology at Oakwood.
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I leaned how to be
a preacher at Oakwood.
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I learned how to be
an Adventist at Oakwood
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but I didn't have any faith.
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See I was self sufficient,
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I had been so self
sufficient my whole life.
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I've always been
able to do things,
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so when I got home
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I gave it a chance
okay, trying to get to work,
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try to give her
father and do some things
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and didn't happen.
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Was ready to get
out of the house so,
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I went right back to
doing what I'm used to do
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and we moved out, move
into North Park Towers.
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How?
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And I'm--
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So became very
lucrative for you?
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So my plan was
just to do a little bit
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and then, you know, I
was angry at the church.
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I was mad.
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Because they
didn't give you a call?
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Because I don't get a call.
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So weren't you ashamed.
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You know you
husband was selling drugs?
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You knew.
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Not in the beginning.
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Not in the very beginning.
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Not even in the middle.
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She kind of had
idea of what I was doing
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but it wasn't into I
would like really came clean
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because one thing
I can always tell you
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about my wife is that
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you can't do anything too
bad or too horrible to where
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you know, she'll judge you
or treat you a certain way.
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That was the one
of the reasons why
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when I first came
to church you know,
00:09:05.53\00:09:06.77
comes to
Adventist as a single man,
00:09:06.80\00:09:09.17
you know, you can
like have a choice
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but she was my choice because
she was patient, she waited
00:09:11.20\00:09:15.01
and she showed me what
I thought for Christian--
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I know what a
Christian look like,
00:09:18.92\00:09:20.09
I would have thought
that as it would look like
00:09:20.12\00:09:21.92
would had to look like her.
00:09:21.95\00:09:22.98
Okay so Sarone,
I'm gonna asking this.
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Now you know,
you had three babies,
00:09:24.46\00:09:26.23
you know, your husband is now,
00:09:26.26\00:09:27.73
you know he is
selling drugs did you ever say
00:09:27.76\00:09:29.75
listen, you got to
stop this or I'm gone.
00:09:29.78\00:09:32.26
All right, did
you ever say that?
00:09:32.29\00:09:33.72
That didn't happen until
right before he got arrested.
00:09:33.75\00:09:37.74
Okay, tell me
what happened, Sarone.
00:09:37.77\00:09:39.95
I had been praying
and praying and praying
00:09:39.98\00:09:41.76
going to church without
him, doing all this stuff
00:09:41.79\00:09:45.32
but always pray Lord, save him
00:09:45.35\00:09:47.84
but don't take him away from me.
00:09:47.87\00:09:49.76
Save him but don't hurt him.
00:09:49.79\00:09:52.17
You know, I was
giving God conditions.
00:09:52.20\00:09:54.53
And then about two
weeks he had went through--
00:09:54.56\00:09:59.63
he was not only selling
00:09:59.66\00:10:00.95
but this time he
was using very heavily.
00:10:00.98\00:10:02.69
Using what?
00:10:02.72\00:10:03.75
Cocaine. Cocaine.
00:10:03.78\00:10:05.09
He was using cocaine
very heavily and it was,
00:10:05.12\00:10:07.74
it was just at that
point it got too much for me.
00:10:07.77\00:10:10.84
He will be gone I'll be,
my kids will be at the house
00:10:10.87\00:10:13.93
I will lock them up
00:10:13.96\00:10:15.03
and I be in the car
looking all around for him
00:10:15.06\00:10:16.91
just driving not
knowing where I was going.
00:10:16.94\00:10:19.03
Mercy.
00:10:19.06\00:10:20.09
And I would just be like
okay, and I'll come back home.
00:10:20.12\00:10:23.57
And then two weeks
00:10:23.60\00:10:25.49
prior to him getting
arrested I prayed to Lord,
00:10:25.52\00:10:27.45
I mean, I would
stand in the window
00:10:27.48\00:10:29.13
upstairs
bedroom and I said Lord,
00:10:29.16\00:10:30.47
whatever takes to
save him, save him.
00:10:30.50\00:10:32.21
I don't care
anymore, I just want him safe.
00:10:32.25\00:10:35.23
How by whatever means necessary.
00:10:35.26\00:10:37.30
Mercy.
00:10:37.33\00:10:38.47
So what happened with charge
00:10:38.50\00:10:40.63
that you was
originally running from?
00:10:40.66\00:10:43.94
Well actually in 95
00:10:43.97\00:10:46.19
I was wanting to
leave in Oakwood,
00:10:46.22\00:10:47.83
I left Oakwood,
we came back home.
00:10:47.86\00:10:51.36
I was raising some,
00:10:51.39\00:10:53.89
I worked at, I
worked at Westside Chevrolet
00:10:53.92\00:10:56.63
and so we had
Camaro's and a friend of mine
00:10:56.66\00:10:58.84
worked at Ford
Company they had Mustangs.
00:10:58.87\00:11:01.50
So we raced one
night and I ended up
00:11:01.53\00:11:03.84
getting caught the following day
00:11:03.87\00:11:05.98
and I just started running.
00:11:06.01\00:11:07.44
So normally when
I get pulled over
00:11:07.47\00:11:08.88
I would just saying something
they wouldn't let me go.
00:11:08.91\00:11:11.39
This time I just
told them and said look,
00:11:11.42\00:11:12.84
you guys are looking for me.
00:11:12.87\00:11:13.95
My name is Dennis
Wallace. Here's my id.
00:11:13.98\00:11:17.23
He didn't believe
me, he went back there
00:11:17.26\00:11:19.48
and then he was like yeah,
00:11:19.51\00:11:20.77
we've been looking
for you for a long time.
00:11:20.80\00:11:22.89
And so they took me to jail
00:11:22.92\00:11:25.33
and I end up
meeting Elder David Baxter
00:11:25.36\00:11:29.17
who was a court
clerk at the clerk
00:11:29.20\00:11:31.30
and he's also an
elder at the church.
00:11:31.33\00:11:32.80
Okay, hold on.
00:11:32.83\00:11:34.00
So this is the first child or?
00:11:34.03\00:11:35.36
This is the first child.
00:11:35.39\00:11:36.52
The very first
child. First child.
00:11:36.55\00:11:37.97
So now want to say okay.
00:11:38.00\00:11:39.68
I was actually
pregnant with our middle child,
00:11:39.71\00:11:43.00
Steven at the time.
00:11:43.03\00:11:45.03
Now we got to say first child,
00:11:45.06\00:11:46.54
that's the first child
I had when I was with her.
00:11:46.57\00:11:48.29
All right. Right, Okay.
00:11:48.32\00:11:50.69
But with-- Right.
Okay. Right. Right.
00:11:50.72\00:11:52.67
And so that scared me.
00:11:52.70\00:11:55.01
You know, she already
knew what was at stake.
00:11:55.04\00:11:57.49
We discussed
this a thousand times,
00:11:57.52\00:11:59.76
had planned on what
to do, what to put up.
00:11:59.79\00:12:02.22
So-- You had preventive right.
00:12:02.25\00:12:03.90
So we knew that one
day this was gonna happen
00:12:03.93\00:12:06.54
and not just that but I
always want the turn myself in.
00:12:06.57\00:12:09.42
I wanted to just
get it over with.
00:12:09.45\00:12:11.19
So we finally got it over with.
00:12:11.22\00:12:13.48
Like I said Elder
Baxter was a clerk there.
00:12:13.51\00:12:15.34
Her father came
and spoke on my behalf.
00:12:15.37\00:12:18.04
The judge actually
said that you've done more
00:12:18.07\00:12:20.54
on these last
two years at Oakwood
00:12:20.57\00:12:22.28
and you've done your whole life.
00:12:22.31\00:12:24.00
And so we're gonna
continue with the probation
00:12:24.03\00:12:27.26
that you've already
violated several times
00:12:27.29\00:12:29.57
but you have to
go back to Oakwood.
00:12:29.60\00:12:31.18
Wow.
00:12:31.21\00:12:32.41
That was the
stipulation that he had.
00:12:32.44\00:12:33.73
And at the time I was
just a social work major,
00:12:33.76\00:12:36.89
now I'm the theology major.
00:12:36.92\00:12:38.54
Wow.
00:12:38.57\00:12:39.60
So now I've seen
God do some things
00:12:39.63\00:12:41.46
but I'm still not quite sure yet
00:12:41.49\00:12:43.46
so I go back this
time as theology major
00:12:43.49\00:12:45.55
and I'm on fire now.
00:12:45.58\00:12:46.87
You are on fire.
00:12:46.90\00:12:47.97
Vegan, there's I'm studying,
00:12:48.00\00:12:51.83
I'm preacher
everywhere I can go.
00:12:51.86\00:12:53.50
I'm telling
anybody who wants to know
00:12:53.53\00:12:55.63
or even if you
don't want to know.
00:12:55.66\00:12:57.06
We're going in the
parties, we're going everywhere.
00:12:57.09\00:12:58.68
I was like really on
fire at that time of my life.
00:12:58.71\00:13:00.50
Let me stop you.
00:13:00.53\00:13:01.56
For those who don't
know what a vegan is,
00:13:01.59\00:13:02.80
vegan is a individual does
not use any dairy products,
00:13:02.83\00:13:06.03
eat any meat or any
type of poultry any aspects
00:13:06.06\00:13:09.89
especially nothing
is all from the ground.
00:13:09.92\00:13:12.80
All right so you eating
nut, fruits and vegetables,
00:13:12.83\00:13:15.57
all right.
00:13:15.60\00:13:16.64
And so you back at Oakwood.
00:13:16.67\00:13:17.76
Back at Oakwood.
00:13:17.79\00:13:18.82
And you stayed there till
you got your degree there.
00:13:18.85\00:13:20.31
Stay there, got a few jobs,
00:13:20.34\00:13:21.89
got my degree
at Oakwood theology
00:13:21.92\00:13:24.87
like I have say, I
was waiting for a call
00:13:24.90\00:13:26.23
it didn't happen, disappointed.
00:13:26.26\00:13:27.89
And that's why
when you guys came back
00:13:27.92\00:13:29.56
and live with your parents.
00:13:29.59\00:13:30.93
Live with our parents.
00:13:30.96\00:13:32.01
Now I still was
trying to go to church.
00:13:32.04\00:13:33.07
I was still
trying to do somethings.
00:13:33.10\00:13:34.60
Her father was
trying to, you know,
00:13:34.63\00:13:36.70
he would allow me to
speak at different places
00:13:36.73\00:13:38.33
and it just, it just wasn't
the same anymore because--
00:13:38.36\00:13:41.80
Okay, so when you
started back in the world
00:13:41.83\00:13:44.94
and you need to
start doing those things
00:13:44.97\00:13:48.42
how long did that last?
00:13:48.45\00:13:49.64
Did you get charge
or did something happen
00:13:49.68\00:13:52.46
and you get
arrested for something else?
00:13:52.49\00:13:56.02
No, actually what happened was
00:13:56.05\00:13:58.94
this guy kept calling me
over and over and over again
00:13:58.97\00:14:01.42
and you know in
the game that I was in,
00:14:01.45\00:14:03.13
you know, first of all no.
00:14:03.16\00:14:05.93
Once I told you no, that
wasn't gonna happen it was no.
00:14:05.96\00:14:08.34
He wanted me to come
out to a certain location
00:14:08.37\00:14:10.36
he wanted to
bring something with me.
00:14:10.39\00:14:12.03
I just told my wife she
just told me, that's it.
00:14:12.06\00:14:15.24
So I had to get rid
of mostly everything
00:14:15.27\00:14:18.41
and I had here's
something else in the basement
00:14:18.44\00:14:20.64
but I had got
mostly really everything
00:14:20.67\00:14:22.70
and I wasn't reopen anymore.
00:14:22.73\00:14:25.40
You told I'm getting
rid off of the cocaine now.
00:14:25.43\00:14:26.52
Yeah, I was getting rid of all.
00:14:26.55\00:14:27.85
So the cocaine was in the house
with your wife and children.
00:14:27.88\00:14:30.16
Well, no, I had-- well sometimes
00:14:30.19\00:14:31.87
it was but I had and I
was like in brief moments
00:14:31.90\00:14:34.73
where I had to stop and go.
00:14:34.76\00:14:36.59
I had places that I would,
00:14:36.62\00:14:39.61
you know, keep
drugs, I don't have drugs
00:14:39.64\00:14:41.83
and I never tried to
00:14:41.86\00:14:44.28
and that's when I guess sloppier
00:14:44.31\00:14:46.05
toward the end
because I was sniffing
00:14:46.08\00:14:47.54
so much cocaine myself that,
00:14:47.57\00:14:50.46
you know, my whole
face would just be,
00:14:50.49\00:14:51.79
would just be numb.
00:14:51.82\00:14:53.10
And I never
thought I had a problem
00:14:53.13\00:14:54.83
because to me it was all mine
00:14:54.86\00:14:57.17
and so I would just put more cut
00:14:57.20\00:14:59.18
on the people
stuff that I was selling.
00:14:59.21\00:15:00.37
So your relationship with
the Lord had deteriorated?
00:15:00.40\00:15:03.75
Slowly by slowly, I will
start to coming to church
00:15:03.78\00:15:06.85
and I have my
region up everywhere.
00:15:06.88\00:15:08.54
On the one night I went got
three tattoos done at one night
00:15:08.57\00:15:11.70
hoping that her
father was gonna say some.
00:15:11.73\00:15:13.43
I was looking for
someone to say something to me.
00:15:13.47\00:15:15.30
I didn't want to as for help.
00:15:15.33\00:15:16.78
I will pull up to
our church music blast
00:15:16.81\00:15:19.06
and had a truck then and,
you know, different kinds.
00:15:19.09\00:15:21.43
I would just pull up with
music blasting and smoking weed
00:15:21.46\00:15:24.11
hoping someone
would say something to me.
00:15:24.14\00:15:26.22
And no one ever did, Dennis?
00:15:26.25\00:15:27.56
No.
00:15:27.59\00:15:28.62
I came up one time
with blood all over my shirt
00:15:28.65\00:15:31.37
and you know, I mean,
00:15:31.40\00:15:33.56
I was really hoping as someone
would say something to me.
00:15:33.59\00:15:36.67
People were just afraid.
00:15:36.70\00:15:38.04
Where was the blood from?
00:15:38.07\00:15:39.10
Something in--
00:15:39.13\00:15:40.16
I had jumped on a
couple guys on them,
00:15:40.19\00:15:42.99
Blackhawk 7, street hawk 7,
well, I got into what 12 rage
00:15:43.02\00:15:45.62
and they are pulling
the car and just, okay.
00:15:45.65\00:15:50.04
All right, now I got
to get you over to now
00:15:50.07\00:15:51.83
you went to the guy, you didn't,
00:15:51.86\00:15:54.68
because we only
have about 10 min.
00:15:54.71\00:15:56.31
We got to get in 10 minutes.
00:15:56.34\00:15:57.68
So tell me what has happened
00:15:57.71\00:16:00.01
that caused you to get arrested?
00:16:00.04\00:16:01.40
Let's get to this.
00:16:01.43\00:16:02.46
Okay, well happy to
call give me the calls
00:16:02.49\00:16:04.13
I had been arrested.
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.50
She gave me ultimatum that money
00:16:05.53\00:16:07.00
I was suppose to start a rehab.
00:16:07.03\00:16:08.32
so the guy kept calling me back,
00:16:08.35\00:16:09.73
calling me back and
he was an informant.
00:16:09.76\00:16:12.73
I don't know
really was at the time
00:16:12.76\00:16:14.81
he was an informant
00:16:14.84\00:16:15.95
and he worked for
the sonic tasks force.
00:16:15.98\00:16:18.95
By the time I
come back out there
00:16:18.98\00:16:20.91
they had new everything
and all they really want was
00:16:20.94\00:16:23.20
my phone because everything
was inside of my phone.
00:16:23.23\00:16:26.01
They knew I had drugs on me
00:16:26.04\00:16:27.45
but they really
wasted interesting that.
00:16:27.48\00:16:29.60
They knew it was
on the phone the--
00:16:29.63\00:16:30.83
The contacts.
00:16:30.86\00:16:31.89
Right. So--
00:16:31.92\00:16:33.57
And they got you?
00:16:33.60\00:16:34.63
Yes.
00:16:34.66\00:16:35.72
Okay, and you were like dubbed
00:16:35.75\00:16:36.87
when they got you
that night or, yes.
00:16:36.90\00:16:38.86
Yes, they
locked me up that night
00:16:38.89\00:16:40.91
and so my life changed.
00:16:40.94\00:16:44.89
I ended up getting sentence
to 10 to 40 years of prison.
00:16:44.92\00:16:48.44
Well, why so much though?
00:16:48.47\00:16:49.98
I mean, why was it 10 to 40?
00:16:50.01\00:16:51.44
Because how much,
because how much it was.
00:16:51.47\00:16:52.92
Your record?
00:16:52.95\00:16:54.00
No, how much drugs I had--
00:16:54.03\00:16:55.11
So it was mandatory.
00:16:55.14\00:16:56.17
Right.
00:16:56.20\00:16:57.23
Oh, God.
00:16:57.26\00:16:58.29
And where was she and,
where were you at this time?
00:16:58.32\00:17:00.06
Did he called you and
tell you what was going on?
00:17:00.09\00:17:01.85
Yeah, I was at home.
00:17:01.88\00:17:02.97
I was going from the comeback
because seems like this is--
00:17:03.00\00:17:04.90
I told it is my last work.
00:17:04.93\00:17:06.40
Yeah, he says
this is my last time.
00:17:06.43\00:17:07.47
He told you that?
00:17:07.50\00:17:08.53
Yeah, and he was coming back
00:17:08.56\00:17:10.13
and I made Rose lay on the couch
00:17:10.16\00:17:12.75
and I got a collect
call and I didn't believe it.
00:17:12.78\00:17:19.21
I didn't believe it.
00:17:19.24\00:17:20.35
Because you just told
God whatever it takes.
00:17:20.38\00:17:21.81
Whatever it takes.
00:17:21.84\00:17:23.10
Well, he said
it was his last one
00:17:23.13\00:17:24.99
and in terms it really
was his last one, you know.
00:17:25.02\00:17:28.79
Well, seriously it really was.
00:17:28.82\00:17:29.92
It was.
00:17:29.95\00:17:31.01
So your phone
rings what happens?
00:17:31.04\00:17:34.88
I just remember
being now I couldn't call--
00:17:34.91\00:17:37.37
I didn't want
to call my parents.
00:17:37.40\00:17:39.07
I didn't know who to call
until I didn't talk to anybody
00:17:39.10\00:17:41.99
I don't think until the next day
00:17:42.02\00:17:44.52
or so what he was like
you better call these people,
00:17:44.55\00:17:46.51
you know, he gave
me a list to call.
00:17:46.54\00:17:48.05
I called his
cousin and, you know,
00:17:48.08\00:17:50.65
I was trying to
figure out where we're gonna
00:17:50.68\00:17:52.69
because I wasn't
working at the time.
00:17:52.72\00:17:53.75
I was in school,
back to school full-time.
00:17:53.78\00:17:56.03
And so can't figure out
00:17:56.06\00:17:57.60
what in the
world we were gonna do.
00:17:57.63\00:17:59.43
Working, you know,
he had a full time job.
00:17:59.46\00:18:02.30
It wasn't like he wasn't working
00:18:02.33\00:18:03.74
he had a full time job
00:18:03.77\00:18:05.16
that he worked 40
hours a week sometimes more.
00:18:05.19\00:18:08.15
So I had to you
know, go up there
00:18:08.18\00:18:09.67
and deal with that and,
I'm dealing with the kids.
00:18:09.70\00:18:12.16
You know, my
youngest was five-years-old.
00:18:12.19\00:18:16.24
So I have five,
six, and seven-year-old.
00:18:16.27\00:18:19.07
So dealing with them and
trying to figure out, you know,
00:18:19.10\00:18:23.84
they didn't go to school
00:18:23.87\00:18:24.92
for almost I
think about two weeks
00:18:24.95\00:18:27.40
till my best friend called me
00:18:27.43\00:18:29.18
and she was
like, what's going on?
00:18:29.21\00:18:30.73
And I said I can get
up. I can't do anything.
00:18:30.76\00:18:32.98
So you became really depressed?
00:18:33.01\00:18:34.66
I became really depressed.
00:18:34.69\00:18:35.94
Okay.
00:18:35.97\00:18:37.03
And she helped out a lot.
00:18:37.06\00:18:40.16
She came in and she
took the kids to school
00:18:40.19\00:18:41.60
for me every day.
00:18:41.63\00:18:43.01
And she had a job
so she was sacrificing
00:18:43.04\00:18:45.97
and then we just went through
the process again the lawyer
00:18:46.00\00:18:50.64
and going through the trial
00:18:50.67\00:18:52.97
and he kept saying
is going to workout,
00:18:53.00\00:18:55.15
I'm coming home, I'm coming home
00:18:55.18\00:18:56.45
and I kept believing
okay you are gonna come home
00:18:56.48\00:18:58.43
and he didn't come home.
00:18:58.46\00:18:59.67
He didn't you feel
when you in the courtroom
00:18:59.70\00:19:02.00
and the judge
said 10 to 40 years?
00:19:02.03\00:19:04.62
I lost it.
00:19:04.65\00:19:06.04
Right there.
00:19:06.07\00:19:07.10
I went out, I heard its
like to go out to courtroom room
00:19:07.13\00:19:10.61
because I really didn't
want him to see me like that.
00:19:10.64\00:19:12.26
We heard all up
and down the hallway.
00:19:12.29\00:19:14.23
But I let out, it was
just I lost it in the hallway.
00:19:14.26\00:19:18.33
I just cried like
hysterically like a baby
00:19:18.36\00:19:21.94
because I went from
my parent's house to him
00:19:21.97\00:19:24.78
I've never been on my own.
00:19:24.81\00:19:25.88
Never been on your own.
00:19:25.91\00:19:26.96
I didn't know what that meant.
00:19:26.99\00:19:28.66
So now you face
on being on your own.
00:19:28.69\00:19:30.63
With three
children. With three children.
00:19:30.66\00:19:33.56
So what was going
through your mind,
00:19:33.59\00:19:35.07
you know, when the
judge said 10 to 40?
00:19:35.10\00:19:37.43
Well, to me I knew it was over.
00:19:37.46\00:19:41.91
You know, I knew it was over.
00:19:41.94\00:19:43.01
I thought that she was
gonna go and I told her.
00:19:43.04\00:19:45.79
Okay so you felt
that your family was gone
00:19:45.82\00:19:48.33
and everything is complete?
00:19:48.36\00:19:51.22
I have been through the system
before and never like this.
00:19:51.25\00:19:55.28
So it was different
and I want to hear it,
00:19:55.31\00:19:57.67
I want the--I wanted
her to go on with her life.
00:19:57.70\00:20:01.14
But you know it
was like final for me,
00:20:01.17\00:20:04.73
it was I knew I had to,
00:20:04.76\00:20:05.98
I knew it was time to go to war.
00:20:06.01\00:20:07.38
I knew it was time
to get my mind right.
00:20:07.41\00:20:09.27
I could think about the world,
00:20:09.30\00:20:10.93
I could think about home
00:20:10.96\00:20:12.18
and I knew I had to get,
00:20:12.21\00:20:13.76
you know, mentally ready
00:20:13.79\00:20:15.23
for what I was
getting ready to go face, so.
00:20:15.26\00:20:18.41
Did they help you
get clean in prison?
00:20:18.44\00:20:19.95
No.
00:20:19.98\00:20:22.13
Everything that
she found out here--
00:20:22.16\00:20:23.50
It's in this. It's in
this, It's right there.
00:20:23.53\00:20:25.48
Yeah. So you--
00:20:25.51\00:20:26.54
What get me
clean was I was glad,
00:20:26.57\00:20:29.77
I was really
tired at the streets,
00:20:29.80\00:20:31.27
I was really tired.
00:20:31.30\00:20:32.86
And I could still
hear God telling me,
00:20:32.89\00:20:35.13
you know, it wasn't as
easy to do what I was doing
00:20:35.16\00:20:37.41
with the contacts that I
had and it was killing me
00:20:37.44\00:20:39.91
and that lead to more usage,
00:20:39.94\00:20:41.99
trying to numb God's voice,
trying to stop hearing Him.
00:20:42.02\00:20:45.39
You know calling me no one
else supposedly doing this.
00:20:45.42\00:20:47.49
You will something automatically
00:20:47.52\00:20:49.47
and pop in my mind I'm looking--
00:20:49.50\00:20:51.75
I'm still exigent text
I'm like oh, come on man,
00:20:51.78\00:20:54.56
you got to stop doing this so.
00:20:54.59\00:20:56.36
In prison I just got to
the point where I thought,
00:20:56.39\00:20:58.31
you know, well,
maybe God was not for me.
00:20:58.34\00:21:00.32
Maybe I got this wrong
00:21:00.35\00:21:02.49
and I started continuing
study and search and search
00:21:02.52\00:21:06.68
and met a Muslim
brother who was a Sunni
00:21:06.71\00:21:08.63
and he explained to me.
00:21:08.66\00:21:09.69
He said look,
your problem is that
00:21:09.72\00:21:11.31
I shmael was the
first born not Isaac
00:21:11.34\00:21:14.15
and you are
following the wrong one.
00:21:14.18\00:21:16.33
Tell us what a Sunni is.
00:21:16.36\00:21:17.73
A Sunni is Orthodox
Islam, he is a Muslim
00:21:17.76\00:21:20.95
and he studies
and he believes that
00:21:20.98\00:21:25.38
there's only one
god and god is Allah.
00:21:25.41\00:21:28.13
They believe that Jesus is
a good man and a good prophet.
00:21:28.16\00:21:31.25
But wasn't that a conflict you
00:21:31.28\00:21:32.57
being Seventh-day
Adventist and the teachings?
00:21:32.60\00:21:34.27
Well, the only
thing I loved about it was
00:21:34.30\00:21:36.76
imprisoned
Christians are kind of weak,
00:21:36.79\00:21:39.44
we are not kind of they are.
00:21:39.47\00:21:41.34
Muslims tend to
stand up even to anybody
00:21:41.37\00:21:44.05
and then the Sunni
Muslims they include all races,
00:21:44.08\00:21:48.42
all people so that
seem more real to me
00:21:48.45\00:21:51.21
than being nation of Islamic
and all the other things.
00:21:51.24\00:21:54.01
And so the way they pray,
00:21:54.04\00:21:55.64
how they prostrate themselves
on the ground to makes--
00:21:55.67\00:21:58.39
So that empowered you?
00:21:58.42\00:21:59.69
That empowered
me in the cleaning--
00:21:59.72\00:22:00.81
So you saw European-American
that was in prison
00:22:00.84\00:22:04.62
and African-American and Spanish
00:22:04.65\00:22:07.78
speaking in
America, they were Sunni's?
00:22:07.81\00:22:09.63
They were Sunnis.
00:22:09.66\00:22:10.72
So how did this
time you are around
00:22:10.75\00:22:12.79
because now you looking 10 to 40
00:22:12.82\00:22:14.30
but not knowing what
Gods gonna make you to do.
00:22:14.33\00:22:16.00
Well, I'm
looking at just 10 to 40
00:22:16.03\00:22:17.11
and I'm just
trying to do my time,
00:22:17.14\00:22:18.36
trying to stay out of way.
00:22:18.39\00:22:20.48
You know 10 years is a long time
00:22:20.51\00:22:22.87
but that's just a minimum
00:22:22.90\00:22:24.24
and I knew that my
tail being lonely in there
00:22:24.27\00:22:26.59
with my temper and it
pops that I kept get into
00:22:26.62\00:22:29.10
I was gonna get in trouble.
00:22:29.13\00:22:30.43
And Sarone, what
was going on at home
00:22:30.46\00:22:32.07
with you and the
children? We made a promise.
00:22:32.10\00:22:33.77
You made a
promise, what was that?
00:22:33.80\00:22:34.85
I promised to take
care of her in there
00:22:34.88\00:22:36.92
and for her to
take care of me on here.
00:22:36.95\00:22:39.41
I won't put you in a situation
00:22:39.44\00:22:40.85
where you lose me
for any more times.
00:22:40.88\00:22:42.78
Don't put me in a
situation out there where,
00:22:42.81\00:22:45.38
you know something
else has to happen.
00:22:45.41\00:22:47.52
So we promised to
take care of each other
00:22:47.55\00:22:50.13
and to make sure
that no matter what happen
00:22:50.16\00:22:53.42
at the end of this we will
go, we'll be gonna be all right.
00:22:53.45\00:22:56.70
Did you take the
children to see them?
00:22:56.73\00:22:58.68
Yeah, not as much
as he wanted me to
00:22:58.71\00:23:02.16
or there was time
00:23:02.19\00:23:03.48
because we were
still going through issues.
00:23:03.51\00:23:05.66
There were things
that weren't resolved.
00:23:05.69\00:23:07.14
Were you angry?
I was very angry.
00:23:07.17\00:23:09.82
I was very angry. You was.
00:23:09.85\00:23:11.55
I was very angry and very hurt
00:23:11.58\00:23:14.99
and it wasn't
what I signed up for.
00:23:15.02\00:23:20.46
I knew he had been on the run.
00:23:20.49\00:23:21.70
I don't know if I was naive.
00:23:21.73\00:23:25.32
I had to leave Detroit.
00:23:25.35\00:23:26.73
I had to go
where my parents were.
00:23:26.76\00:23:28.42
I moved way into an apartment
00:23:28.45\00:23:30.59
I couldn't afford,
lost that apartment.
00:23:30.62\00:23:33.13
Want to live with my
parents, now its four of us
00:23:33.16\00:23:36.07
living with my parents in
a three-bedroom apartment.
00:23:36.10\00:23:40.01
Now let me ask you this, okay,
00:23:40.04\00:23:43.10
you get out alone,
you didn't do 10 years.
00:23:43.13\00:23:45.28
No. Okay.
00:23:45.31\00:23:46.34
You know what happened.
00:23:46.37\00:23:47.44
You have five
minutes to tell us.
00:23:47.47\00:23:48.50
Okay, what happened was,
00:23:48.53\00:23:49.59
you know I ended up
denouncing Islam because,
00:23:49.62\00:23:52.81
you know, as after
further study I found out
00:23:52.84\00:23:55.02
that prior to take shahada
00:23:55.05\00:23:58.10
that I was worsening for
them Allah could not bless me
00:23:58.13\00:24:00.62
so as I look back my life--
00:24:00.65\00:24:02.11
What's shahada?
00:24:02.14\00:24:03.78
It's like an oath or prayer
they keep take to come in.
00:24:03.81\00:24:06.39
Okay.
00:24:06.42\00:24:08.47
It's like accepting
Jesus in your heart, you know.
00:24:08.50\00:24:10.86
So anyway
finding out I denounced,
00:24:10.89\00:24:15.28
I said I want to be a Christian.
00:24:15.31\00:24:17.99
Got into a situation where
you know, they had to move me.
00:24:18.02\00:24:23.20
Accepted Christianity
four-time, promise God
00:24:23.23\00:24:25.72
that when I got out
that-- my first promise was that
00:24:25.75\00:24:29.01
when I get out is not
let me out to have changed.
00:24:29.04\00:24:31.86
So now that He
had worked with me
00:24:31.89\00:24:33.78
and I had
promised Him that no matter
00:24:33.81\00:24:35.91
what I do when I get out that,
00:24:35.94\00:24:37.51
you know, I was gonna
tell everybody I could
00:24:37.54\00:24:39.79
about who He has been to me,
00:24:39.82\00:24:42.08
that if you just
give me my family
00:24:42.11\00:24:43.24
because Sarone
had filed for divorce.
00:24:43.27\00:24:46.98
And so at the end and I decide--
00:24:47.01\00:24:49.19
I trusted I would do
anything whatever it is
00:24:49.22\00:24:51.37
but I have to
have my children back.
00:24:51.40\00:24:53.36
I found out that
three out of four children
00:24:53.39\00:24:55.14
who are having
conservative parent
00:24:55.17\00:24:56.98
become conservative themselves.
00:24:57.01\00:24:58.22
I have four children so
I had to choose which one.
00:24:58.25\00:25:00.32
I said none.
00:25:00.35\00:25:01.68
So I had to
think about my things,
00:25:01.71\00:25:03.52
there were some things
I had to do differently,
00:25:03.55\00:25:04.95
I had to man up.
00:25:04.98\00:25:06.43
I had to recreate myself,
00:25:06.46\00:25:08.61
I had to think
about my thinking change
00:25:08.64\00:25:10.14
my choice points
and after first thing
00:25:10.17\00:25:12.40
I need to do I needed to
come back and date my girl.
00:25:12.43\00:25:15.09
I needed to date her,
00:25:15.12\00:25:16.31
I needed to show her
that I'm not the same person
00:25:16.34\00:25:18.87
that I could be
the man that she met
00:25:18.90\00:25:20.88
and I was gonna-- and I told,
00:25:20.91\00:25:22.57
I said you can
keep your boyfriend.
00:25:22.60\00:25:23.86
But you got out
when? You got out--
00:25:23.89\00:25:26.00
Hey, guys, we got three minutes.
00:25:26.03\00:25:27.43
You got out--
00:25:27.46\00:25:28.51
So what was the decision,
00:25:28.54\00:25:30.43
I mean, want probation office--
00:25:30.46\00:25:32.00
Well, the law changed.
00:25:32.03\00:25:33.48
Oh yeah.
00:25:33.51\00:25:34.54
Oh, yeah, the law changed.
00:25:34.57\00:25:35.60
That was the cocaine law.
00:25:35.63\00:25:36.96
You're right the
drug law changed in 93.
00:25:36.99\00:25:38.69
Yeah, okay.
00:25:38.72\00:25:40.08
Oh, 2000.
00:25:40.11\00:25:41.32
It changed and so
everything was different now,
00:25:41.35\00:25:46.33
you know, he didn't
have to do the full 10 years,
00:25:46.36\00:25:49.08
you know, he only
had to do the five.
00:25:49.11\00:25:50.44
So I say God rewrote the
law for me. I always say He did.
00:25:50.47\00:25:52.84
Yes, He did. Yes, He did.
00:25:52.87\00:25:54.39
He allowed me to
get out a little earlier
00:25:54.42\00:25:55.91
or five years earlier
and I've been able to do
00:25:55.94\00:25:58.86
some wonderful
things since I've been home.
00:25:58.89\00:26:00.23
I've been preaching everywhere.
00:26:00.26\00:26:02.17
We have our own little
program, "He Said, She Said"
00:26:02.20\00:26:05.02
that we do for
marriage, you know, counseling.
00:26:05.05\00:26:06.99
We have our program Third Doubt,
00:26:07.02\00:26:09.10
Transition Home
using God's Gifts,
00:26:09.13\00:26:11.09
Education Discipleship of
these understanding in trust.
00:26:11.12\00:26:14.30
I know and I'm so happy
that the children doing well
00:26:14.33\00:26:17.23
because I see them
with you out and about.
00:26:17.26\00:26:18.96
We have about a minute Sarone,
tell me what you doing now?
00:26:19.03\00:26:21.71
You said you finish
your undergrad in accounting?
00:26:21.74\00:26:23.70
Yes, I did. What
are you doing now?
00:26:23.73\00:26:25.71
I'm working on my Masters
in Business Administration
00:26:25.74\00:26:27.39
with a concentration
00:26:27.42\00:26:28.48
in international
business and corporate finance.
00:26:28.51\00:26:30.31
That is
wonderful. And Dennis, you?
00:26:30.34\00:26:32.12
Case manager at Southwest
Solutions supportive services
00:26:32.15\00:26:35.12
for veterans and families.
00:26:35.15\00:26:36.50
I'm also working on
my masters my MSW at USC
00:26:36.53\00:26:39.27
with a concentration
on Veteran Affairs.
00:26:39.30\00:26:41.00
And USC is what?
00:26:41.03\00:26:42.19
University of
Southern California.
00:26:42.22\00:26:44.42
Oh, wow. That is wonderful.
00:26:44.45\00:26:46.81
Excellent.
00:26:46.84\00:26:47.87
Well, we talk about have and to
00:26:47.90\00:26:49.15
why didn't you leave
Sarone, you could have left
00:26:49.18\00:26:51.84
for better for worse you
could have left, why not?
00:26:51.87\00:26:55.47
I thought about it, I
did the paperwork to do it
00:26:55.50\00:26:58.53
and then God said no.
00:26:58.56\00:27:00.53
He came home, my
husband reclaimed me
00:27:00.56\00:27:03.62
and God put us back together
00:27:03.65\00:27:06.01
and said this is what I meant,
00:27:06.04\00:27:08.02
you guys said for ever
and I think if the vows
00:27:08.05\00:27:11.98
that no man put us
that means even us.
00:27:12.01\00:27:14.64
We want you to
tell our viewers today,
00:27:14.67\00:27:16.78
how to make it work?
00:27:16.81\00:27:18.74
What do they need to do
in these last 30 seconds?
00:27:18.77\00:27:21.07
You have to love
her, pass your vows,
00:27:21.10\00:27:24.52
past the vows and be
committed to your commitment,
00:27:24.55\00:27:27.80
that's it and got to be
committed beyond your vows.
00:27:27.83\00:27:30.56
Sarone?
00:27:30.59\00:27:31.72
Forgiveness.
00:27:31.75\00:27:33.63
Forgiveness and unconditional,
unconditional love.
00:27:33.66\00:27:37.97
Well, to have into whole
are they closing remarks?
00:27:38.00\00:27:40.75
Well, I think we are blessed
00:27:40.78\00:27:43.70
to have this
couple with us today.
00:27:43.73\00:27:46.11
I think the
opportunity is there for anybody
00:27:46.14\00:27:49.37
to overcome
tragedy and difficulty.
00:27:49.40\00:27:52.34
The Lord has spared your life
for a moment just like this.
00:27:52.37\00:27:56.37
So I encourage you
00:27:56.40\00:27:57.53
and I really support both of you
00:27:57.56\00:28:00.62
in everything that you do.
00:28:00.65\00:28:02.35
Well, listen, we
love you, God bless you.
00:28:02.38\00:28:05.00
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:28:05.03\00:28:06.48
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:28:06.51\00:28:07.54
To have and to hold,
make it work. God bless you.
00:28:07.57\00:28:10.25
Make it work.
00:28:10.28\00:28:11.31