Hi, I'm Dr Kim
Logan-Nowlin. I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:00:01.06\00:00:03.34
And welcome to Making It Work.
00:00:03.37\00:00:05.37
The topic of our
program today is...
00:00:36.48\00:00:38.44
Making a Catastrophe.
00:00:38.47\00:00:39.89
We want to
welcome our guest today.
00:00:39.92\00:00:41.85
We have Mr. Rodney
Cooper of Canton, Michigan
00:00:41.88\00:00:44.90
and Mr. Steve Barbra
of Detroit, Michigan.
00:00:44.93\00:00:47.88
Welcome to Making It Work.
00:00:47.91\00:00:49.19
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
00:00:49.22\00:00:50.80
All right, guys,
one of the things
00:00:50.83\00:00:52.12
that I'm really interested in
00:00:52.15\00:00:53.79
and we've talked
about it before is,
00:00:53.82\00:00:56.11
issues dealing with
African-American men.
00:00:56.14\00:00:58.92
You know, and some of the things
00:00:58.95\00:01:00.63
that are taking place
with our African-American men
00:01:00.66\00:01:03.67
is devastating.
00:01:03.70\00:01:06.26
It appears that everywhere I go
00:01:06.33\00:01:09.54
that's a concern with everybody.
00:01:09.57\00:01:11.87
You know, when
we're talking about
00:01:11.90\00:01:13.81
our fathers not being in home.
00:01:13.84\00:01:15.99
African men being incarcerated,
you now, consistently.
00:01:16.02\00:01:20.48
Right now I
think the prison system
00:01:20.51\00:01:22.25
is like 80%
African-American men.
00:01:22.28\00:01:24.86
So you need to
give us some solutions
00:01:24.89\00:01:28.11
on how to deal
with these issues.
00:01:28.14\00:01:31.25
I think sometimes when
we talk about solutions
00:01:31.28\00:01:34.88
we have remedies and formulas
00:01:34.91\00:01:37.36
that take place but
the ultimate solution is
00:01:37.39\00:01:41.01
I would believe for our
African-American young men
00:01:41.04\00:01:45.00
is to seek God first.
00:01:45.03\00:01:46.78
I believe that
seeking God first.
00:01:46.81\00:01:49.04
And a lot of the
times in our homes,
00:01:49.07\00:01:51.83
I've talked with
Steve a lot of the times
00:01:51.86\00:01:53.55
about the gatekeeper.
00:01:53.58\00:01:55.10
When the
gatekeeper leaves the home,
00:01:55.13\00:01:58.71
that means that he is allowed--
00:01:58.74\00:02:00.45
the father has allowed
his home to be left vacant
00:02:00.48\00:02:03.74
without his
presence or his input
00:02:03.77\00:02:07.18
and when the gatekeeper is away,
00:02:07.21\00:02:08.98
the Devil, Satan
himself enters into the home
00:02:09.01\00:02:12.27
and just wreaks havoc
throughout the entire home.
00:02:12.30\00:02:14.87
So those are some those things.
00:02:14.90\00:02:16.22
Right, and I agree with Rodney
00:02:16.25\00:02:18.36
because men especially
young men will seek to mold
00:02:18.39\00:02:22.86
or model
themselves after something.
00:02:22.89\00:02:24.64
You know, we see that so
when the father's not home,
00:02:24.67\00:02:26.50
sometimes or most times
they model after the mother,
00:02:26.53\00:02:29.47
that's in the house alone.
00:02:29.50\00:02:30.69
And we wind up with, you know,
00:02:30.72\00:02:32.54
something we want to
look not little peculiar at.
00:02:32.57\00:02:35.40
So after that if
not then, you know,
00:02:35.43\00:02:38.74
we have the rap,
you know aspect--
00:02:38.77\00:02:40.70
Culture.
00:02:40.73\00:02:41.76
We have like hip-hop culture,
00:02:41.79\00:02:43.27
we have rappers, we
have basketball stars,
00:02:43.30\00:02:46.60
we have political figures,
00:02:46.63\00:02:49.04
all these people that are almost
00:02:49.07\00:02:50.65
push in front of them to say,
00:02:50.68\00:02:52.21
you need to be like this man,
you need to be like that man,
00:02:52.24\00:02:55.12
but the man that
God put there for them
00:02:55.15\00:02:57.33
some model in the first place
00:02:57.36\00:02:58.68
being their father is not there.
00:02:58.71\00:03:01.48
Want to take it back a minute.
00:03:01.51\00:03:03.00
I hear you talking about
responsibility to young men,
00:03:03.03\00:03:06.73
having guarding eyes.
00:03:06.76\00:03:07.87
Can you tell us, who
you are, your history,
00:03:07.90\00:03:10.87
and your
background, and what, you know,
00:03:10.90\00:03:13.58
what empowers you to be able
00:03:13.61\00:03:15.30
to talk about
this with such passion?
00:03:15.33\00:03:17.68
Oh, I think sometimes
when you are brought forth
00:03:17.71\00:03:21.07
when you all came to me
00:03:21.10\00:03:22.91
to actually do
this type of program,
00:03:22.94\00:03:24.75
I think you have to have
some sort of experience in that
00:03:24.78\00:03:27.99
and we just did a
program at our church
00:03:28.02\00:03:30.09
last week on blended families,
00:03:30.12\00:03:31.85
and I have a lot of experience
in that over the past 13 years,
00:03:31.88\00:03:36.30
so being a father
00:03:36.33\00:03:38.53
and being the second
father to some young men
00:03:38.56\00:03:42.07
or and actually in that
situation was a daughter.
00:03:42.10\00:03:44.80
I found myself
having to find solutions
00:03:44.83\00:03:48.53
as Arthur talked about
00:03:48.56\00:03:50.22
and being able to make
decisions for my household,
00:03:50.25\00:03:55.04
and then who to seek,
when I'm making those decision
00:03:55.07\00:03:57.69
instead of trying
to make them on my own,
00:03:57.72\00:04:00.04
I needed to seek the Lord.
00:04:00.07\00:04:01.13
So I just do
that most of the time.
00:04:01.16\00:04:04.28
Okay, but, Rodney,
you have a company.
00:04:04.31\00:04:05.77
Yes, I do.
00:04:05.80\00:04:06.84
And why did you
start this company?
00:04:06.87\00:04:08.11
What's the name of your company?
00:04:08.14\00:04:09.17
The name of the
company is, The Cooper Agency
00:04:09.20\00:04:11.18
and we do for the
Detroit Public Schools
00:04:11.21\00:04:14.35
and surrounding
areas, intervention programs.
00:04:14.38\00:04:17.04
What are those
intervention programs?
00:04:17.07\00:04:18.82
We deal with
conflict resolution,
00:04:18.85\00:04:21.13
cultural competency.
00:04:21.16\00:04:22.63
When you're talking
about cultural competency,
00:04:22.66\00:04:24.76
our teachers in
the educational arena
00:04:24.79\00:04:28.13
don't necessarily
know how to deal with
00:04:28.16\00:04:31.82
as they call it the urban child,
00:04:31.85\00:04:33.68
so The Cooper Agency goes
in and trains teachers on.
00:04:33.71\00:04:37.75
How to make connections,
00:04:37.78\00:04:38.99
I think that's the biggest
thing making connections.
00:04:39.02\00:04:41.48
Our students are
failing standardized tests
00:04:41.51\00:04:45.15
because they can't get the word.
00:04:45.18\00:04:46.99
They're failing
because the teachers
00:04:47.02\00:04:49.09
are not making
connections with students
00:04:49.12\00:04:51.69
and when you're able to
make connections with students,
00:04:51.72\00:04:53.88
I think students
see through all of that
00:04:53.91\00:04:57.00
and they begin to
connect with you too,
00:04:57.03\00:04:58.57
and that enables them to learn,
00:04:58.60\00:05:00.19
so I've been doing that now for
00:05:00.22\00:05:01.95
probably the last
year and a half now.
00:05:01.98\00:05:04.35
With the
situation that happened.
00:05:04.38\00:05:06.01
Yeah, and I
understand that perspective,
00:05:06.04\00:05:08.10
you know, but still we
also deal with knowing them
00:05:08.13\00:05:11.77
not making the connection,
00:05:11.80\00:05:13.40
we deal with them not
wanting to make a connection.
00:05:13.43\00:05:16.73
You know, because
this is at a point now,
00:05:16.76\00:05:18.42
I think a lot of
teachers are frustrated,
00:05:18.45\00:05:20.63
when we're
talking about dealing with
00:05:20.66\00:05:22.42
you know, African-American males
00:05:22.45\00:05:24.68
and especially
if they don't have
00:05:24.71\00:05:27.07
some stability in the household.
00:05:27.10\00:05:29.11
We deal with lot of
issues where they really
00:05:29.14\00:05:32.38
have a hard time
addressing those issues.
00:05:32.41\00:05:35.66
And maybe because of some
medical reasons like ADHD,
00:05:35.69\00:05:40.31
instead of saying that
they need to be medicating,
00:05:40.34\00:05:43.12
can we really have
them evaluated just to deter
00:05:43.15\00:05:45.80
if they have
ADHD or if they don't.
00:05:45.83\00:05:51.30
I again, I continue
to talk with educators
00:05:51.33\00:05:54.93
and principals
throughout this region.
00:05:54.96\00:05:58.36
And it is not the children,
00:05:58.39\00:06:00.61
I think and it's
not the children,
00:06:00.64\00:06:02.34
they are going to learn,
00:06:02.37\00:06:03.40
these children
have been learning
00:06:03.43\00:06:05.92
historically for
the past 40 or 50 years,
00:06:05.95\00:06:08.17
they've been the same child.
00:06:08.20\00:06:09.69
Now, we can say that
they've changed differently,
00:06:09.72\00:06:11.68
but have our methods change,
00:06:11.71\00:06:13.08
so I think that we as educators
00:06:13.11\00:06:15.45
and as we as
adults need to revamp
00:06:15.48\00:06:18.96
how it is that we
are presenting ourselves
00:06:18.99\00:06:21.02
to our students,
00:06:21.05\00:06:22.08
so that they'll be able to learn
00:06:22.11\00:06:23.34
and that also
helps me as a parent
00:06:23.37\00:06:25.71
and this entire ball of wax
00:06:25.74\00:06:28.39
when we talk about
the educational system.
00:06:28.42\00:06:30.01
Well, I see, Barber,
tell us your background
00:06:30.04\00:06:33.25
and also you know you
are men's ministry leader
00:06:33.28\00:06:36.59
for the Lake Region Conference.
00:06:36.62\00:06:38.46
Of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:06:38.49\00:06:39.98
can you tell us about your
background, and your history?
00:06:40.01\00:06:42.83
Well, my background
is almost the identical
00:06:42.86\00:06:45.61
of probably 80% of
some of your viewers
00:06:45.64\00:06:47.86
they gonna be watching,
00:06:47.89\00:06:49.46
which is I grew up
with a father not in home.
00:06:49.49\00:06:52.42
And my mentorship
was really lacking,
00:06:52.45\00:06:55.81
you know, in the beginning,
I wasn't a troubled child,
00:06:55.84\00:06:58.29
but I was withdrawn child.
00:06:58.32\00:06:59.78
You know, I did not
know how to respond to men,
00:06:59.81\00:07:01.86
I did not know
how to get in there
00:07:01.89\00:07:03.45
and, you know,
talk about basketball,
00:07:03.48\00:07:06.09
talk about sports,
talk about man things.
00:07:06.12\00:07:08.80
I would always
be in the background
00:07:08.83\00:07:10.21
holding up a wall,
00:07:10.24\00:07:11.30
I was afraid to
talk to a young lady,
00:07:11.33\00:07:13.77
I'm afraid to approach the boy,
00:07:13.80\00:07:15.33
you know, the
fellows and just shoot the--
00:07:15.36\00:07:17.39
shoot the
proverbial, you know, words.
00:07:17.42\00:07:19.35
Right.
00:07:19.38\00:07:20.41
And you know, it hindered me,
00:07:20.44\00:07:22.68
but I had a lot of
mentors, strong mentors
00:07:22.71\00:07:27.36
that actually decided
they wanted to take me
00:07:27.39\00:07:29.33
under their wing, one of
them being William Slayton,
00:07:29.36\00:07:32.21
great man-- great man here.
00:07:32.24\00:07:34.65
He is a older man,
he'd always see me.
00:07:34.68\00:07:36.72
If he saw me
leaning up against the wall,
00:07:36.75\00:07:38.11
he'd always come up,
00:07:38.14\00:07:39.56
pull me up off the
wall with his words,
00:07:39.59\00:07:41.14
you know, just talking
it's all standing out straight,
00:07:41.17\00:07:42.99
as then I go talk
among these pretty young--
00:07:43.02\00:07:45.02
pretty young girls up in here.
00:07:45.05\00:07:46.54
No, I'm no-- I don't
know how to introduce.
00:07:46.57\00:07:48.54
You just walk up
and say something
00:07:48.57\00:07:49.89
and that's really all it took
00:07:49.92\00:07:51.03
was the walk up
and say something.
00:07:51.06\00:07:52.32
So social
skills? That's important.
00:07:52.35\00:07:54.59
Exactly and I
didn't know how to do that,
00:07:54.62\00:07:56.78
I didn't have somebody there
to teach me how to do that.
00:07:56.81\00:07:58.99
Okay, let me stop you there,
00:07:59.02\00:08:00.32
you know, Arthur, when
we talk about social skills
00:08:00.35\00:08:03.18
and we talk about
interaction with young men,
00:08:03.21\00:08:06.57
we don't have these kind
of programs in our church.
00:08:06.60\00:08:09.94
You know, we don't see
00:08:09.97\00:08:11.00
these kind of mentorship
programs in our church.
00:08:11.03\00:08:13.28
Why don't we have these
type of programs in the church
00:08:13.31\00:08:15.50
where we can teach social skills
00:08:15.53\00:08:17.48
and prepare them for, you
know, the right of passage.
00:08:17.51\00:08:21.40
Why is that
missing in our church?
00:08:21.43\00:08:22.66
I think it's important
when you think about it,
00:08:22.69\00:08:24.66
Kim, it's a--
00:08:24.69\00:08:26.00
A lot of times we don't have
00:08:26.03\00:08:27.60
the people in
place that are capable,
00:08:27.63\00:08:31.83
I'm really demonstrating
that the mentoring ship
00:08:31.86\00:08:35.46
and then we're talking
about also a time factor
00:08:35.49\00:08:39.77
that's involved, a lot of people
00:08:39.80\00:08:41.47
will put church
programs on a back burner
00:08:41.50\00:08:45.00
and they don't feel that,
they feel that maybe possibly
00:08:45.03\00:08:47.97
they go to church
once a week to deal with
00:08:48.00\00:08:50.07
whatever issue they deal with
00:08:50.10\00:08:51.37
and when they go home
that's it-- that's it,
00:08:51.40\00:08:53.68
but when you talk
about mentoring ship,
00:08:53.71\00:08:55.83
you're talking about 24/7.
00:08:55.86\00:08:58.34
You know, I
mean you may not have
00:08:58.37\00:08:59.74
to deal with that
child in those particular,
00:08:59.77\00:09:01.70
in that particular timeframe.
00:09:01.73\00:09:03.38
But you're talking
about being available.
00:09:03.41\00:09:05.32
You know, especially when
we're dealing with crisis.
00:09:05.35\00:09:08.25
So that's
really important. Okay.
00:09:08.28\00:09:09.94
And what you do as far as
bringing the church together,
00:09:09.97\00:09:14.84
to address issue.
00:09:14.87\00:09:16.86
That's good, it needs
to be done by the males,
00:09:16.89\00:09:21.15
and not just by the females
00:09:21.18\00:09:22.82
'cause a lot of our
programs in the church today,
00:09:22.85\00:09:25.80
I hear about females.
00:09:25.83\00:09:26.94
I'm glad, you said that too
00:09:26.97\00:09:28.09
because, when you say the males,
00:09:28.12\00:09:30.72
you know, you chose
that word so correctly
00:09:30.75\00:09:33.44
because there's a difference
between male boy and man.
00:09:33.47\00:09:36.18
You know and
male is just a child
00:09:36.21\00:09:38.85
who comes out of the
womb and the doctor says
00:09:38.88\00:09:41.07
it's a male child
00:09:41.10\00:09:42.35
because of his gender
specific-- specificity.
00:09:42.38\00:09:46.35
He becomes a boy when he
starts challenging things.
00:09:46.38\00:09:49.09
He becomes a man when
he's securing these things.
00:09:49.12\00:09:51.91
People name you a man,
you can't name yourself a man,
00:09:51.94\00:09:55.68
people identify
with you as being,
00:09:55.71\00:09:57.24
now that's a good man.
00:09:57.27\00:09:58.55
You know, right there
that's a good man over there,
00:09:58.58\00:10:00.67
but if they look at you,
00:10:00.70\00:10:02.09
okay, you still
have some growing to do.
00:10:02.12\00:10:04.17
It's a culture thing.
00:10:04.20\00:10:06.28
In Africa, you know,
when they had the boys
00:10:06.31\00:10:08.58
become men through
the rights of passage.
00:10:08.61\00:10:10.35
All the men laid hands on him
and acknowledge them to be man.
00:10:10.38\00:10:13.47
We don't do that nowadays.
We say you're 21 you're a man.
00:10:13.50\00:10:16.72
You know, the
father leave the home,
00:10:16.75\00:10:18.03
they put this on
incredible pressure on boys,
00:10:18.06\00:10:20.33
they say, you're the
man of the house now.
00:10:20.36\00:10:22.10
He doesn't know what it's like.
00:10:22.13\00:10:23.46
He doesn't know what he's
going to be going through.
00:10:23.49\00:10:25.75
So now that gatekeeper's going,
00:10:25.78\00:10:27.14
he has to make up
or adopts anything
00:10:27.17\00:10:29.25
that he can
perceive to be a man.
00:10:29.28\00:10:31.65
Now where do they adapted from?
00:10:31.68\00:10:33.79
That's being specific,
they adapted from the media,
00:10:33.82\00:10:37.19
from TV, from videos
00:10:37.22\00:10:39.79
and which can
create a major problem.
00:10:39.82\00:10:42.14
I'm not saying all programs
00:10:42.17\00:10:43.78
in the
television programs are bad,
00:10:43.81\00:10:46.05
but a lot of the
things that our youth adopt,
00:10:46.08\00:10:49.42
you know, it seems
to be questionable,
00:10:49.45\00:10:51.17
when which you
agree or disagree?
00:10:51.20\00:10:52.64
I totally agree with that.
00:10:52.67\00:10:53.73
What we've failed to do,
00:10:53.76\00:10:56.77
when you've talked of mentoring,
00:10:56.80\00:11:00.01
the elongated, the process
00:11:00.04\00:11:03.59
where we begin to
talk to them about
00:11:03.62\00:11:05.63
what it is that they need to do,
00:11:05.66\00:11:07.72
we don't follow up
with that situation,
00:11:07.75\00:11:10.22
so if it's a
program, if it's a whatever
00:11:10.25\00:11:12.11
the 12 step or 12 week program,
00:11:12.14\00:11:14.25
we do those and then on week 13,
00:11:14.28\00:11:16.44
we don't hear or
see more from that,
00:11:16.47\00:11:19.13
we don't-- I'm
trying to think of the word
00:11:19.16\00:11:21.55
the--what happens in
the long period of time,
00:11:21.58\00:11:24.80
should I check back
with you in 6 months.
00:11:24.83\00:11:26.74
The follow up surely with that,
00:11:26.77\00:11:28.53
so that we can have
some type of follow through
00:11:28.56\00:11:32.33
and some feedback
on how you're doing,
00:11:32.36\00:11:34.40
we don't do that, we
cannot leave you all,
00:11:34.43\00:11:36.38
if this right of passage,
now that you're through,
00:11:36.41\00:11:39.05
what now that you've made it
in through this right of passage
00:11:39.08\00:11:42.51
that usually is
it for the mentoring.
00:11:42.54\00:11:44.73
And mentoring is a
long term situation.
00:11:44.76\00:11:48.06
When you
mentoring right of passage,
00:11:48.09\00:11:51.30
I'm really-- I guess,
I'm motivated to think
00:11:51.33\00:11:55.75
that we can implement a program
like that in our churches today
00:11:55.78\00:12:00.25
because some
churches are doing it.
00:12:00.28\00:12:02.61
A lot of
churches are not doing it.
00:12:02.64\00:12:06.14
And it's only
because I seriously believe
00:12:06.17\00:12:09.15
that they don't
hold as being important.
00:12:09.18\00:12:13.23
You know, and that's a
good and powerful program
00:12:13.26\00:12:16.41
when you're dealing
with a young--young child,
00:12:16.44\00:12:19.34
that's crossing over
into a particular age
00:12:19.37\00:12:22.20
and you're providing him
with some type of support
00:12:22.23\00:12:25.56
and to let him know what
options are available to him.
00:12:25.59\00:12:28.74
That's right. Yes.
00:12:28.77\00:12:29.80
Also one of the aspect
that I've come to learn
00:12:29.83\00:12:32.40
because I've been doing men's
ministry for 20 plus years.
00:12:32.43\00:12:35.83
And it's a science that
really needs or ministry
00:12:35.86\00:12:39.74
that really need more ministry.
00:12:39.77\00:12:41.63
The answer toward
is sample, it's Christ.
00:12:41.66\00:12:43.47
It's Jesus Christ. Sure.
00:12:43.50\00:12:44.65
You look at that example
He is all the man you need,
00:12:44.68\00:12:46.99
all the man you need to be.
00:12:47.02\00:12:48.35
Following His
steps. That's right.
00:12:48.38\00:12:50.29
Exactly, but what
we're dealing with
00:12:50.32\00:12:52.11
especially with
men in leadership,
00:12:52.14\00:12:53.76
who wants their
males in leadership.
00:12:53.79\00:12:55.51
Sometimes we're
dealing with hurt individuals,
00:12:55.54\00:12:57.96
sometimes we're dealing with--
with people with great power,
00:12:57.99\00:13:01.12
great responsibility
and great authority,
00:13:01.15\00:13:05.06
but does not have that
approval of the community
00:13:05.09\00:13:08.56
that lay their hands on
and say, you are now a man.
00:13:08.59\00:13:11.01
So what they're doing
is they're winning it,
00:13:11.04\00:13:13.40
and it was okay for me, so
why not let it be okay for--
00:13:13.43\00:13:16.70
for the rest of the
men or let it not be okay
00:13:16.73\00:13:18.76
for the rest of the boys.
00:13:18.79\00:13:20.44
Something, so we have
people-- it's a disconnect,
00:13:20.47\00:13:23.34
they show the
importance of acknowledging
00:13:23.37\00:13:26.14
our young men to be men,
00:13:26.17\00:13:27.26
but also our
grown men to be men.
00:13:27.29\00:13:29.48
I think that we even
go after the grown man
00:13:29.51\00:13:31.97
and say that, we
acknowledge you as a man
00:13:32.00\00:13:34.34
that will relieves
a whole lot of things,
00:13:34.37\00:13:36.11
marriages will be
saved, children would be--
00:13:36.14\00:13:39.16
would have their
father's back in the home,
00:13:39.19\00:13:41.66
it would be so
much-- so much going on.
00:13:41.69\00:13:45.26
A father doesn't
have to have a divorce
00:13:45.29\00:13:46.93
and get kicked out
the home, not to be there.
00:13:46.96\00:13:49.04
You know he can be
spiritually disconnected,
00:13:49.07\00:13:51.18
he can be
emotionally disconnected,
00:13:51.21\00:13:52.67
he could just be a body there.
00:13:52.70\00:13:54.22
And that's what
we have this thing,
00:13:54.25\00:13:55.80
we were talking earlier
about the second commandment,
00:13:55.83\00:13:57.95
on how the
iniquity follows the fathers
00:13:57.98\00:14:00.58
and it follows the children.
00:14:00.61\00:14:01.81
You're right. Into
the third and fourth.
00:14:01.84\00:14:03.08
Oh, yes. That's right.
00:14:03.11\00:14:04.26
That something else
that we need to look at.
00:14:04.29\00:14:06.75
We really need to look at it,
00:14:06.78\00:14:07.96
and I have been
thoroughly convinced
00:14:07.99\00:14:11.52
that men need to
adopt the new name
00:14:11.55\00:14:14.34
and that is cursed breakers
00:14:14.37\00:14:16.09
because men need to acknowledge,
00:14:16.12\00:14:19.34
what it is that's
generational curses in our past
00:14:19.37\00:14:23.76
something that we probably
00:14:23.79\00:14:24.86
didn't have
nothing to do with it.
00:14:24.89\00:14:25.92
That's powerful
though, you know,
00:14:25.95\00:14:27.68
when you're talking
about curse breakers.
00:14:27.71\00:14:29.96
You know, that's really powerful
00:14:29.99\00:14:31.56
and that's
something to consider.
00:14:31.59\00:14:34.69
I want to go back to
something that you said earlier,
00:14:34.72\00:14:37.85
you know, and
that was in regards
00:14:37.88\00:14:39.69
to females raising
male child-- children.
00:14:39.72\00:14:43.89
You know, I've
seen where females
00:14:43.92\00:14:47.80
have been successful
in raising male children,
00:14:47.83\00:14:50.69
so I mean, when
I think about it,
00:14:50.72\00:14:54.08
there are certain
values that anybody
00:14:54.11\00:14:57.90
can have to
implement in a child's rearing.
00:14:57.93\00:15:00.92
Yes. Yes.
00:15:00.95\00:15:02.12
So I mean, if a female may
00:15:02.15\00:15:05.07
not have the male
present in the home,
00:15:05.10\00:15:07.41
but if she
demonstrate the good values,
00:15:07.44\00:15:09.71
the good character and--
00:15:09.74\00:15:11.36
and if she's also
wise enough to recognize
00:15:11.39\00:15:14.92
that she may need
support, you know, I say,
00:15:14.95\00:15:17.80
that they can be
raised to be really great,
00:15:17.83\00:15:21.85
powerful and
studious in all those areas
00:15:21.88\00:15:25.49
where he's going to
be a successful child.
00:15:25.52\00:15:27.44
Dr. Ben Carson is
the perfect example.
00:15:27.47\00:15:29.62
He was raised
by his mother. Yes.
00:15:29.65\00:15:31.22
He's a phenomenal person,
00:15:31.25\00:15:33.21
but the thing is where God
puts man and woman together,
00:15:33.24\00:15:36.24
and name that very good.
00:15:36.27\00:15:37.75
Absolutely.
00:15:37.78\00:15:38.83
Who are we to
say, what is there to.
00:15:38.86\00:15:40.33
Where could Ben Carson had been
00:15:40.36\00:15:41.69
if his father had been there.
00:15:41.72\00:15:43.38
You know, we want to give
the acknowledgement of every--
00:15:43.41\00:15:46.50
of the-- not the complete,
00:15:46.53\00:15:49.35
but the raising and the rearing
00:15:49.38\00:15:50.77
of the children
by a single parent,
00:15:50.80\00:15:51.90
who have the fathers or mothers
00:15:51.93\00:15:53.66
positive role
models in the front--
00:15:53.69\00:15:55.25
I give all credits to my mother.
00:15:55.28\00:15:56.36
Amen, I applaud you,
00:15:56.39\00:15:57.60
I give all credits
to my father, amen,
00:15:57.63\00:15:59.10
I applaud you, but
what would have been
00:15:59.13\00:16:01.92
if God had been in the center
00:16:01.95\00:16:04.62
and the husband
and wife cohesion,
00:16:04.65\00:16:08.79
you know, would have been there.
00:16:08.82\00:16:10.74
How much more?
00:16:10.77\00:16:11.80
How long-- you say, I
give credit to my father.
00:16:11.83\00:16:14.43
Well, how long did it take you
to give credit to your father
00:16:14.46\00:16:16.85
because he was out at home?
00:16:16.88\00:16:18.19
My father? Yeah.
00:16:18.22\00:16:19.60
It's a-- it's took years. Yeah.
00:16:19.63\00:16:21.06
I have a 7 year old daughter
and I think she turned two
00:16:21.09\00:16:25.67
before the process of
forgiving him was complete.
00:16:25.70\00:16:29.13
Because he didn't
want-- he walked away
00:16:29.16\00:16:32.46
when I was-- when I was four,
00:16:32.49\00:16:34.32
the divorce was
final was when I was seven,
00:16:34.35\00:16:36.19
you know, it took a lot longer
back then to get a divorce.
00:16:36.22\00:16:39.23
So I didn't know,
when I was hurting,
00:16:39.26\00:16:42.48
you know, I was really hurting
in that-- in that situation.
00:16:42.51\00:16:45.13
When you know, he will
want to come by and pick us up,
00:16:45.16\00:16:48.38
but he never did.
00:16:48.41\00:16:49.55
You know, I
remember one time he came by,
00:16:49.58\00:16:51.24
we want him to get
a Mother's Day gift
00:16:51.27\00:16:52.72
for our mom, he went out,
we brought her a nice watch,
00:16:52.75\00:16:55.20
came back, and
presented it to her,
00:16:55.23\00:16:57.97
happy Mother's Day.
00:16:58.00\00:16:59.32
Years later my mother told me
00:16:59.35\00:17:01.55
I gave him the
money for that watch
00:17:01.58\00:17:03.07
so you wouldn't be
disappointed on him
00:17:03.10\00:17:05.67
not buying some
before he had no money.
00:17:05.70\00:17:08.08
You know-- you
know, today's society,
00:17:08.11\00:17:10.38
you find that women are
stepping up to the plate,
00:17:10.41\00:17:13.57
they have to because
the men are in prison,
00:17:13.60\00:17:16.28
they are not in the forefront.
00:17:16.31\00:17:19.11
However there are
lot of good mothers
00:17:19.14\00:17:21.95
in raising their
sons and like he said,
00:17:21.98\00:17:24.53
Ben Carson is a prime example
00:17:24.56\00:17:26.79
and there are many, many more.
00:17:26.82\00:17:28.44
But at the same time
we do need our fathers
00:17:28.47\00:17:31.73
or mentorship
programs, our pastors, good men.
00:17:31.76\00:17:35.81
Kind hearted man, sensitive men
00:17:35.84\00:17:38.48
to be able to see.
00:17:38.51\00:17:39.79
If you see a void,
00:17:39.82\00:17:41.16
to be able to step up
and say, feel that boy.
00:17:41.19\00:17:44.30
You know, I
shouldn't have to have someone
00:17:44.33\00:17:46.13
to come up with
some special program
00:17:46.16\00:17:47.61
to tell me there's a void here,
I see this child every week.
00:17:47.64\00:17:51.68
I need to feel that boy,
00:17:51.71\00:17:53.00
go to that mother
and say, what can I do?
00:17:53.03\00:17:54.80
Doesn't the Bible
say? That's right.
00:17:54.83\00:17:56.34
That we have to
take care of those
00:17:56.37\00:17:58.16
who are widowed and those--
The widows and the fatherless.
00:17:58.19\00:17:59.83
Yes, and the father
that's-- that's the word of God.
00:17:59.86\00:18:02.77
So why we're
sitting back waiting for?
00:18:02.80\00:18:04.77
Why we're sitting back
waiting for, gentlemen?
00:18:04.80\00:18:06.70
Well, like I said
before a lot of times--
00:18:06.73\00:18:08.20
I'm sorry, Cooper. Okay.
00:18:08.23\00:18:09.26
Yeah.
00:18:09.29\00:18:10.50
We're dealing with
hurt individuals again.
00:18:10.53\00:18:12.43
You know, what's to say that--
00:18:12.46\00:18:14.88
the mother has not
been hurt by Leroy Jenkins,
00:18:14.91\00:18:18.57
just you know, just saying name.
00:18:18.60\00:18:20.50
And she is repulsed or
angry at all men Bitter.
00:18:20.53\00:18:25.30
Yeah. At all men.
00:18:25.33\00:18:27.58
So when I want to come
and say, hey, you, sir--
00:18:27.61\00:18:30.13
let me tell you, show
you how to tie, tie a tie.
00:18:30.16\00:18:32.70
I can show him how to tie a tie.
00:18:32.73\00:18:34.73
You know, I can do this.
00:18:34.76\00:18:35.88
We have, we did a program
at our church for a while
00:18:35.91\00:18:39.28
and a woman
say, I raised my son,
00:18:39.31\00:18:41.47
he's a good man
and I acknowledge him,
00:18:41.50\00:18:43.77
he doesn't need a father.
00:18:43.80\00:18:45.56
And I said, well,
every man needs a father.
00:18:45.59\00:18:49.88
I said, a man cannot
raise a daughter by himself
00:18:49.91\00:18:52.64
and she be complete so a woman
cannot raise a son by herself
00:18:52.67\00:18:57.30
and he be complete.
00:18:57.33\00:18:58.75
She knows how to
show him how to give love,
00:18:58.78\00:19:02.16
but the woman's
job, the wife's job,
00:19:02.19\00:19:04.44
a mother's job is to
show the son by observance,
00:19:04.47\00:19:07.46
how to receive
love from husband.
00:19:07.49\00:19:09.12
So if you had not
begun your healing,
00:19:09.15\00:19:11.56
your daughter was two years old,
00:19:11.59\00:19:12.89
you have a son now,
you have a male child.
00:19:12.92\00:19:14.46
Yes.
00:19:14.49\00:19:15.54
Is your father in his life
and is are you and your father,
00:19:15.57\00:19:20.68
you know, in a
relationship now where,
00:19:20.71\00:19:23.02
you know this
curse can be broken.
00:19:23.05\00:19:24.93
Okay, well, my father has died,
00:19:24.96\00:19:26.58
my father has
passed when my daughter
00:19:26.61\00:19:29.60
was about three years old.
00:19:29.63\00:19:30.80
He had multiple
myeloma, he never saw her,
00:19:30.83\00:19:33.46
but I had begun the process
00:19:33.49\00:19:34.97
when my wife was pregnant
with her to actually heal that.
00:19:35.00\00:19:38.72
He was down in
Florida and I was up here
00:19:38.75\00:19:41.99
and he wanted to-- and
he didn't reach out to me,
00:19:42.02\00:19:46.35
I reached out to him.
00:19:46.38\00:19:47.70
I said somebody
has to do, you know,
00:19:47.73\00:19:49.32
more somebody has to be
the-- the bigger person.
00:19:49.35\00:19:52.28
And not to be vain
about a little bit,
00:19:52.31\00:19:55.17
but I called him
00:19:55.20\00:19:57.64
and I have a two
hour conversation with him
00:19:57.67\00:19:59.36
and myself on in the car.
00:19:59.39\00:20:01.44
Not about, I
want to forgive you,
00:20:01.47\00:20:03.16
I want to tell,
we're just-- just talked.
00:20:03.19\00:20:05.95
We just talk about anything,
the weather down in Florida,
00:20:05.98\00:20:08.81
how things are going up here,
00:20:08.84\00:20:10.72
you know, you're going
to be a grandfather again
00:20:10.75\00:20:13.78
this and a lot, but
we talked for two hours
00:20:13.81\00:20:16.31
after that I felt so
much more comfortable
00:20:16.34\00:20:18.70
that I was able to
videotape my daughter.
00:20:18.73\00:20:21.81
You know, mid night
feedings, her learning to crawl,
00:20:21.84\00:20:24.78
just looking
around eyes wide open
00:20:24.81\00:20:26.45
and I will send
him the videotapes.
00:20:26.48\00:20:28.42
That made his
day. That made his day.
00:20:28.45\00:20:31.27
He will call back almost
crying because he's like,
00:20:31.30\00:20:35.14
she's so
beautiful, she's so this,
00:20:35.17\00:20:37.28
she needs to
know her grandfather,
00:20:37.31\00:20:38.94
I said, yeah, I agree with it,
but trying to get down her dad,
00:20:38.97\00:20:41.66
things are a little
tight here we're trying to do
00:20:41.69\00:20:43.40
and I'll just
send him videotapes.
00:20:43.43\00:20:45.18
When the Pistons
won the championship,
00:20:45.21\00:20:46.87
I send him a
baseball cap and t-shirt,
00:20:46.90\00:20:49.10
he was in the hospital
having a cancer treatment.
00:20:49.13\00:20:51.40
He said, that brighten him up,
00:20:51.43\00:20:53.79
you know, as
soon as he saw that,
00:20:53.82\00:20:55.03
he put the hat on,
00:20:55.06\00:20:56.14
he had his wife
put the shirt on him
00:20:56.17\00:20:58.53
because he didn't
have the strength to do it.
00:20:58.56\00:20:59.93
He just sat there grinning.
00:20:59.96\00:21:02.92
What I need to do is to go back
00:21:02.95\00:21:05.85
to what we discussed earlier.
00:21:05.88\00:21:07.63
Sure.
00:21:07.66\00:21:08.69
Solutions, you know,
what kind of solutions
00:21:08.72\00:21:11.46
can we come up with?
00:21:11.49\00:21:12.84
We've got to be willing
00:21:12.87\00:21:15.14
when you talk of
mentoring programs
00:21:15.17\00:21:17.18
and we've got to be available.
00:21:17.21\00:21:19.18
A solution is being available,
you talk of leadership roles,
00:21:19.21\00:21:23.66
those that are in leadership
positions within the church,
00:21:23.69\00:21:26.89
the solution is
stepping up and stepping out
00:21:26.92\00:21:29.38
and becoming very transparent.
00:21:29.41\00:21:32.31
Making availing yourself to say,
00:21:32.34\00:21:35.02
I know what you've gone through
and I am going to step up
00:21:35.05\00:21:39.94
and make a connection with you
00:21:39.97\00:21:41.72
so that I can
begin mentoring you.
00:21:41.75\00:21:44.44
And what mentoring means
00:21:44.47\00:21:45.50
and the word I was looking
for was the sustainability.
00:21:45.53\00:21:48.11
We've got to be able
to see the sustainability,
00:21:48.14\00:21:50.68
when I talk with you in 5 years
and that's the greater reward,
00:21:50.71\00:21:55.29
so the solution is
surely seek God and I mean,
00:21:55.32\00:21:58.84
really earnestly seek God.
00:21:58.87\00:22:01.02
And the next, one
of the next things
00:22:01.05\00:22:02.76
is to make yourself available.
00:22:02.79\00:22:05.00
We have gotten become--
00:22:05.03\00:22:06.72
we've become so
distracted with worldly things
00:22:06.75\00:22:11.31
that right in our churches,
right up under our noses,
00:22:11.34\00:22:13.80
our children are
turning to the world,
00:22:13.83\00:22:15.98
instead of turning to
Man of God or even ladies,
00:22:16.01\00:22:18.65
women of God too,
actually see what we can do.
00:22:18.68\00:22:22.34
And the one thing that
Steve talked about that
00:22:22.37\00:22:24.17
that I wanted to piggyback
on what is happening with us
00:22:24.20\00:22:26.83
is we can't find
solutions because,
00:22:26.86\00:22:30.85
we are harboring
what has taken place.
00:22:30.88\00:22:34.51
We have not recognized or
made the acknowledgement that--
00:22:34.54\00:22:37.71
okay, that did happen
to me, that did happen
00:22:37.74\00:22:40.68
but I need to now
make the connection
00:22:40.71\00:22:42.27
with the Lord and
say, Lord help me with this
00:22:42.30\00:22:44.80
as I move forward
in raising that child.
00:22:44.83\00:22:47.47
I would have to
disagree with you.
00:22:47.50\00:22:49.08
A woman can raise
a child by herself
00:22:49.11\00:22:52.52
with God though
and a father can raise
00:22:52.55\00:22:54.96
his daughter with
God, but he has to--
00:22:54.99\00:22:57.97
we talked in my sermon at
this past week of let that go,
00:22:58.00\00:23:01.65
connect with God, and He knows
00:23:01.68\00:23:03.69
what's going on
with your situation.
00:23:03.72\00:23:05.71
And allow me to move forward.
00:23:05.74\00:23:07.27
Give me the ability
to raise this situation.
00:23:07.30\00:23:10.48
So availability, seeking God,
00:23:10.51\00:23:12.90
those are two solutions
that I could say right now,
00:23:12.93\00:23:15.89
we're doing that.
00:23:15.92\00:23:16.95
You know, how many times
00:23:16.98\00:23:18.01
we have to make ourselves
available, we're parents.
00:23:18.04\00:23:20.30
And no matter how
old our children become,
00:23:20.33\00:23:23.05
we have to still make
ourselves available to them.
00:23:23.08\00:23:25.92
We have to make
ourselves available
00:23:25.95\00:23:27.17
as parents in this relationship
00:23:27.20\00:23:29.48
so that they
have a firm foundation
00:23:29.51\00:23:31.76
and children need that.
00:23:31.79\00:23:33.18
Children need to
see the stability,
00:23:33.21\00:23:34.68
I agree with Barber.
00:23:34.71\00:23:36.33
We talked about the stability
00:23:36.36\00:23:37.77
and the longevity
of our relationship.
00:23:37.80\00:23:40.66
We got to give
our children hope,
00:23:40.69\00:23:42.06
we got to give our families hope
00:23:42.09\00:23:44.00
and this is why the church
00:23:44.03\00:23:45.21
is so important to
have different roles
00:23:45.24\00:23:47.72
and leadership set.
00:23:47.75\00:23:49.26
And so when they-- you know, I--
00:23:49.29\00:23:50.56
I guarantee you when Justin's,
00:23:50.59\00:23:52.64
Justin sees you on that pulpit,
00:23:52.67\00:23:54.56
he is just filled with
pride to see you serve.
00:23:54.59\00:23:57.51
Your children's did, I
know, how Aaron is with us.
00:23:57.54\00:24:01.05
You know those are my
parents serving God's church.
00:24:01.08\00:24:04.51
They're in leadership.
00:24:04.54\00:24:06.02
And In process of
being in leadership,
00:24:06.05\00:24:09.05
what happens is so
many people get caught up
00:24:09.08\00:24:11.17
in the leadership perspective.
00:24:11.20\00:24:13.47
And they forget
about-- Your child.
00:24:13.50\00:24:14.92
Yeah, they forget about them.
00:24:14.95\00:24:16.29
You know, you don't
demonstrate the nurturing,
00:24:16.32\00:24:20.07
the sensitivity, the
caring that they require.
00:24:20.10\00:24:23.86
So I mean, that's what
happened to a lot of us.
00:24:23.89\00:24:26.49
We get caught up
and being this person
00:24:26.52\00:24:28.99
and many times--
00:24:29.02\00:24:30.16
The people get caught up.
00:24:30.19\00:24:31.27
We get caught up to the point
where we could be this person,
00:24:31.30\00:24:34.20
and give other people advice
and we forget about our family.
00:24:34.23\00:24:38.17
And we just said that last time,
00:24:38.20\00:24:39.58
we must continue to
nurture our children.
00:24:39.61\00:24:42.16
I say we're good in my,
00:24:42.19\00:24:43.66
Arthur and I took family
life and we allow our family
00:24:43.69\00:24:47.61
and we allow our
children look by the ways,
00:24:47.64\00:24:49.50
you know, our family
is whatever is in need.
00:24:49.53\00:24:52.15
So I agree with that.
00:24:52.18\00:24:53.71
I think what has
happened we also see this.
00:24:53.74\00:24:56.62
Once there's truth being given,
00:24:56.65\00:24:58.44
when we begin to provide
truth to our young people,
00:24:58.47\00:25:01.44
we've got to understand
00:25:01.47\00:25:02.58
that the devil
comes right behind us.
00:25:02.61\00:25:04.46
So as you are ministering
00:25:04.49\00:25:06.01
and as we are
ministering right behind that,
00:25:06.04\00:25:08.93
he is like, yeah, go serve
the people outside your church
00:25:08.96\00:25:12.63
while she is in her room.
00:25:12.66\00:25:14.16
Crying about something
that you have not dealt with--
00:25:14.19\00:25:16.98
Go through that true.
00:25:17.01\00:25:18.18
From four years ago
that she is upset with you
00:25:18.21\00:25:20.42
and that gatekeeper you've--
00:25:20.45\00:25:22.46
yeah, you're serving,
but you've left your home.
00:25:22.49\00:25:24.42
I know I've left my home
00:25:24.45\00:25:25.62
and I'm not
dealing with an issue
00:25:25.65\00:25:28.35
with my wife from years ago
00:25:28.38\00:25:30.42
that we can't seem to
get in the right direction
00:25:30.45\00:25:33.72
and in the family
has the cloud over,
00:25:33.75\00:25:36.07
and then that same situation
comes into to our church
00:25:36.10\00:25:38.29
so it becomes a trickle down
00:25:38.32\00:25:39.81
a family
sometimes not realizing.
00:25:39.84\00:25:41.62
When we look at
you know. We see cycle.
00:25:41.65\00:25:43.20
Inability to communicate
00:25:43.23\00:25:45.29
and I think one of
you guys were saying
00:25:45.32\00:25:47.43
that we have to be transparent?
00:25:47.46\00:25:49.23
Yes.
00:25:49.26\00:25:50.29
You know, and that's
so important especially
00:25:50.32\00:25:52.33
when we're
talking to our children.
00:25:52.36\00:25:54.52
Let them know
that we made mistakes,
00:25:54.55\00:25:56.99
so they don't have
this false pretense of who--
00:25:57.02\00:26:00.11
who they think we really are.
00:26:00.14\00:26:02.30
You know, so it's a
real consistent balance,
00:26:02.33\00:26:05.88
so you know, you
guys have to be commended
00:26:05.91\00:26:08.76
because I know you--
00:26:08.79\00:26:09.85
you both are
constantly on the battlefield.
00:26:09.88\00:26:13.81
Yes.
00:26:13.84\00:26:15.78
And it's not
something that's going away.
00:26:15.81\00:26:18.70
No. No.
00:26:18.73\00:26:19.76
You know, you know,
we got to be innovative
00:26:19.79\00:26:21.68
and come up with some
new ideas consistently
00:26:21.71\00:26:25.01
and it takes a special drive,
00:26:25.04\00:26:27.58
a special motivation for
you to deal with these issues
00:26:27.61\00:26:31.69
and most
importantly to be consistent at.
00:26:31.72\00:26:34.96
I want to say, your consistency,
00:26:34.99\00:26:37.51
I want to say that both
these gentlemen are married,
00:26:37.54\00:26:40.20
they have children,
they have responsibilities,
00:26:40.23\00:26:43.53
they have their
individual businesses,
00:26:43.56\00:26:45.53
they are very
faithful to God's church
00:26:45.56\00:26:48.39
and they're here with
us today on Making It Work.
00:26:48.42\00:26:50.47
Because they're
trying to Making It Work.
00:26:50.50\00:26:53.14
Closing comments in
our last two minutes.
00:26:53.17\00:26:56.44
Go, Steve. Yeah, just--
00:26:56.47\00:26:58.85
Okay, we want to
really focus on the gatekeeper
00:26:58.88\00:27:01.96
and the curse breaker--
00:27:01.99\00:27:03.22
Now it's time to build up
men instead of tearing men down.
00:27:03.25\00:27:06.94
We need to uplift and we need
to support men and their ideas,
00:27:06.97\00:27:11.47
and their drive,
and their passions,
00:27:11.50\00:27:12.92
and their ministry.
00:27:12.95\00:27:14.10
Because every
man has a ministry.
00:27:14.13\00:27:15.41
Every man is a minister,
you know, of his house.
00:27:15.44\00:27:17.70
When God come--
00:27:17.73\00:27:18.98
when Christ comes in
the clouds of great glory,
00:27:19.01\00:27:21.08
who is He going to come to,
to say, where is that treasure?
00:27:21.11\00:27:23.40
Where is that investment?
00:27:23.43\00:27:24.49
Where is that
stewardship that I gave you?
00:27:24.52\00:27:26.97
That to entrust to me, you know,
00:27:27.00\00:27:29.73
Joseph was made the
chief steward of Egypt.
00:27:29.76\00:27:32.43
Christ made us chief
stewards of our homes
00:27:32.46\00:27:34.40
in our
communities, in our churches.
00:27:34.43\00:27:35.73
We must maintain that. Exactly.
00:27:35.76\00:27:37.40
Sure.
00:27:37.43\00:27:38.76
We are trying to
continue to provide that need
00:27:38.79\00:27:44.29
and that's what all
this is when we talk about
00:27:44.32\00:27:46.18
these things in our churches,
00:27:46.21\00:27:47.73
there's a need that we
have to first deal with.
00:27:47.76\00:27:50.71
Once I provide the need
00:27:50.74\00:27:52.86
then I'm gonna
give you some word,
00:27:52.89\00:27:54.05
and that means the word of God.
00:27:54.08\00:27:55.38
So if you're
hungry in our communities,
00:27:55.41\00:27:57.39
around our churches if you're
hungry and you need a meal,
00:27:57.42\00:28:00.24
we want to give you
that, but once you come in,
00:28:00.27\00:28:02.67
we've got to reach out
making ourselves available,
00:28:02.70\00:28:05.40
extend ourselves a little bit.
00:28:05.43\00:28:06.91
We've been kind of
laying back in the spiritual cut
00:28:06.94\00:28:09.70
for some time and now
there needs to be some dealings
00:28:09.73\00:28:13.66
with our community and
get the word of God out there.
00:28:13.69\00:28:16.26
Well, we definitely
got a lot to cover in this.
00:28:16.29\00:28:18.86
Well, listen that we hope,
00:28:18.89\00:28:20.10
that you have
gained some information
00:28:20.13\00:28:21.88
that's going to help you
and pull your family together.
00:28:21.91\00:28:25.21
Listen, I'm Dr Kim Logan Nowlin.
00:28:25.24\00:28:26.95
I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:28:26.98\00:28:28.03
And continue to Making It Work.
00:28:28.06\00:28:29.73
God bless you.
00:28:29.76\00:28:31.25