Participants: Arthur Nowlin (Host), Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin (Host), Pr. Phillip Willis Jr., Rosco Gray
Series Code: MIW
Program Code: MIW000007
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00:01 Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin.
00:02 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 00:03 Welcome to "Making it Work." 00:38 Our topic today, 00:40 "The Impact of Military and Service." 00:43 Arthur, you served in the Air Force, 00:45 United States Air Force. 00:46 Yes. What year? 00:48 That was in-- 00:50 why did you ask that question, Kim? 00:51 Well, I'm just curious to learn. 00:53 I mean, I mean, that was a long time ago. 00:55 I think it was 1970-- 1970-1973. 00:59 Okay. 01:00 And you also-- you served in Vietnam? 01:03 Served in Vietnam. 01:04 What was the experience then? 01:06 It was quite a different experience for me 01:10 because I was mostly 01:13 in the urban community, 01:17 as far as being involved with different cultures, 01:20 I had never been involved with a lot of different cultures 01:23 and then all of a sudden, 01:25 here I'm thrown into that situation. 01:27 It was mind-boggling at one point. 01:29 Were you drafted or did you join? 01:31 Well, it was kind of strange. 01:32 I was drafted by the army 01:35 because I was on my way to college. 01:36 Okay. 01:37 And the army said-- 01:39 and I wanted to take a year off to build up my finances. 01:43 Sure. 01:44 And I got something from Selective Services 01:48 and they said, well, you took a year off so, 01:51 you are not eligible for us to avoid taking you now. 01:55 So we want to draft you now. 01:58 But while I was in high school, some friends and myself, 02:01 we took a test for the Air Force. 02:04 Well, that test really saved me from going to the military-- 02:07 from the-- to the army at that point. 02:09 Okay. 02:10 So I went into the Air Force. 02:11 I see. Well-- 02:13 Thinking that I was gonna avoid Vietnam at that point. 02:15 I know you saw a lot of devastation, a lot of pain. 02:18 Yes, yes. 02:19 You know, but you also had a great experience. 02:22 What was the great experience? 02:23 That you made it out alive. 02:24 Oh, that was tremendous. 02:25 That was tremendous. 02:27 You're on target today. 02:29 Thank you so much. 02:30 You know, not too many can say that they made it out alive, 02:33 but we are sensitive to the families 02:35 that maybe viewing this program. 02:37 We want to welcome two special guests, 02:39 Pastor Phillip Willis and also elder Roscoe Gray. 02:44 Welcome to our program. Thank you. 02:46 Thank you for coming. Happy to be here. 02:47 Well, I'm gonna just let my husband begin 02:50 to share some information, 02:51 I'm gonna come in a little later. 02:53 Wow, this is very simple. 02:54 This is-- all I need to do is 02:56 bring on some men and then I can take the show. 03:00 Arthur, let's go to the show 03:02 Okay. 03:04 Gentlemen, it's so good to have you here. 03:07 Let's start with you, Roscoe. 03:08 How about telling us 03:11 what part of the military 03:13 were you involved with and also, 03:15 what did you do while you were in the military? 03:19 Well, I was a paratrooper. 03:20 Okay. 03:21 And I was a weapon specialist. 03:23 And the army trained me to be a good shot, 03:27 not to miss. 03:29 And I can shoot everything from a 45, all the way up. 03:34 Excellent. 03:35 Expert at everything that I shot. 03:38 So you were a marksman? 03:40 Expert. 03:41 Okay, that's better than marksman. 03:43 Well, okay. Okay. 03:45 And what branch were you in, pastor? 03:47 Well, I served approximately 15 years so far in the army 03:51 and I'm a chaplain. 03:53 Okay. 03:54 So my job is to minister to the soldiers, 03:56 regardless of their religion or background. 03:59 Excellent, regardless of religion or background. 04:01 That's correct. 04:02 Explain. Tell me, they must be kind of different for you? 04:05 Well, it's nonsectarian. 04:08 We have a pluralistic environment. 04:10 While I'm a Protestant chaplain, 04:11 I'm there to provide religious support for everybody. 04:16 Okay, excellent. 04:18 Now, I want to go back to paratrooper, 04:20 could you explain to me what is a paratrooper? 04:25 Well, a paratrooper is a soldier 04:27 that jumps out of airplanes. 04:30 And it makes you tough, makes you like a bird, 04:34 just feel good just coming out of an airplane. 04:36 So para-- I hear the word "paratrooper"-- 04:39 Like parachute? 04:40 Like a para-- so you have a parachute on, 04:41 they are trained you to do that. 04:43 Were you afraid when you first got there? 04:45 Were you afraid of that? 04:46 Yes, my first jump knocked me out. 04:48 Oh, my, what did you hit? 04:49 I landed wrong. 04:51 You landed wrong but you never did that again? 04:53 No, never did that again. 04:54 So you went into the military, you were single? 04:56 Yes. 04:57 All, right, and also when you first served you were single? 05:00 That's correct. Okay. 05:02 So, how long were you in the military 05:05 before you went overseas? 05:08 I was in about 11 months 05:10 and when I got to jump school, I went to Panama. 05:15 Panama? 05:17 To train for-- 05:18 actually I wanted to be a green beret. 05:19 Oh, really. 05:20 Why would you-- why did you 05:22 want to be a green beret? 05:23 Well, just the toughness. Toughness? 05:26 The number one league in the military? 05:29 Yes, yes, yes, the toughness 05:30 because though in basic you qualify 05:34 to be certain things just like the-- 05:37 You were a fighter then? 05:38 Oh, yes, yes. 05:40 Matter of fact, when I was a kid 05:41 I would jump off buildings. 05:42 Oh, okay. 05:45 Climb tree, jump out of trees. 05:46 You know, play king of the hill, 05:48 did all of that. 05:49 So you dreamt about going into the military? 05:51 No, I didn't dream about it. 05:52 Okay, you didn't dream about it, were you drafted, 05:54 'cause you were drafted. 05:55 Oh, I was drafted. 05:58 I was drafted and might as well, 05:59 while I'm here make the best of. 06:00 All right. 06:01 What was probably the driving force 06:03 to get you involved with the military? 06:05 Oh, me? I needed job. 06:08 I mean, I had gone to school for, 06:10 you know, for the extended period time, 06:12 I'm at the end of my master's degree. 06:14 I was looking to find a church 06:16 and there weren't a whole lot of people 06:17 hiring at that time, 06:18 and I wanted to do something with my career. 06:21 And so I looked at being a missionary 06:23 and I also looked at the military 06:26 and the army said, come on brother, we love you. 06:30 So we got two different circumstances, you know. 06:33 Perspectives. 06:34 Yeah, both of you had opportunity 06:37 to be in combat zones. 06:39 That's right. 06:40 Tell me about that, you first, pastor. 06:43 Well, I went twice. 06:45 And you were in the-- 06:46 I went to Iraq, operation Iraqi Freedom. 06:48 I had the opportunity to deployed twice. 06:51 And there's no experience like being in a war zone. 06:55 Nothing prepares you for it, 06:56 I don't care how much training you have. 06:58 And it just comes from my perspective as a chaplain. 07:00 I know that he went to a whole different level of training, 07:03 being in the special forces, special ops, green beret, 07:06 paratrooper, I didn't have that. 07:08 I'm a chaplain, you know, so I'm there carrying Bibles 07:11 and going to minister and preach sermons 07:13 and help people through the most difficult time 07:15 that life had to throw at you. 07:17 But I didn't anticipate how-- 07:19 the impact that it would have on me. 07:21 So my first tour was really tough 07:24 because bad things were happening all the time 07:26 and by end of that tour 07:27 we ended up losing seven soldiers. 07:29 At any one time we had 1,900 soldiers under our, 07:33 under our purview at the battalion 07:35 that I work with. 07:36 By the time I went the second time 07:37 I was much better prepared. 07:39 Okay. 07:40 You know, and tell me about your combat experience. 07:44 Well, it was really rough. 07:48 From the first day in Vietnam, 07:50 you know, we went to Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam 07:54 and just to see the Vietnamese, 07:56 a lot of guys to-- look scary, 07:58 just see the Vietnamese walk around. 08:00 Is he gonna shoot me, is he gonna shoot me, 08:02 is he gonna poison me, 08:03 he gonna do this, he gonna do that. 08:05 And to go to my base camp at Khe, 08:11 that's when you really get assigned 08:12 to your combat unit 08:14 and I went to the 2nd Battalion 08:17 B Company of the 503rd of 173rd Airborne 08:21 and they are the most decorated unit in Vietnam. 08:24 Wow. 08:25 Three Presidential Unit Citations, 08:28 that's when I was there 08:30 and we have 11 Medal of Honor winners of the 173rd. 08:33 Yes, there were. 08:34 Now, were you a Seventh-day Adventist? 08:37 No, I was not. I was a 50/50. 08:38 Okay, so you didn't really have a Christian home? 08:43 I used to go to church Christmas, Easter. 08:44 Okay. Okay. 08:45 That was it. Go check out a girlfriend or two. 08:48 Oh, okay, all right. 08:50 So what about you? 08:51 You are a Seventh-day Adventist. 08:53 Absolutely. 08:54 And you know, how did that-- 08:56 Impact me? Yes. 08:57 I was a believer and you know, I trusted in the Lord but, 09:01 you know, as he was an expert in weapons, 09:03 the only weapon that I had was my Bible and my faith. 09:07 That's great. 09:08 It became evident, the level at which 09:13 my weapon could be their asset or disadvantage. 09:16 When I was riding on a mission with one of the soldiers 09:18 and they said, hey chaplain, 09:19 we know that you are here, we love you, 09:21 but if that weapon, the 50 cal goes down 09:24 with the gunner on the top of that truck, 09:26 are you gonna be able to get up there and help us out? 09:29 And so, you know, there was a huge-- 09:30 So that question was proposed to you? 09:32 It was proposed to me and there's a politically 09:34 correct answer and then there's the answer 09:36 that those soldiers want to hear 09:38 and as their chaplain, 09:39 you're an asset as far as 09:41 you can make a difference for them 09:44 and I didn't want to be just a lucky charm 09:46 but I wanted to be a valuable asset, 09:49 spiritually, emotionally and physically for them. 09:52 Did ever get to that point where you had to get on the 50? 09:54 No. 09:55 And you know, just by way of regulation, 09:57 chaplains are noncombatants, 09:58 so we are not to carry weapons 10:00 or to even be seen with one. 10:02 And that's the right answer all the time. 10:03 Okay. 10:05 But I had a different discussion 10:06 with those guys in that truck. 10:09 You know, as I listen, 10:11 can you image the impact this had on their families, 10:15 their mothers, their siblings, relatives. 10:19 How did this impact your families 10:21 when you had to leave? 10:24 Well, it devastated my mother, 10:28 because you're going from Detroit to Vietnam, 10:32 about 16,000 miles away 10:35 and your whole outcome of life changes. 10:38 Instead of living in the house or beds, 10:40 you're sleeping on the ground. 10:42 Not one day, every day. 10:45 Every day. 10:46 And you carried your house on your back, in your rucksack. 10:50 Your helmet was your bathtub. 10:52 Wow. 10:53 Everything, so you really -- 10:54 it was a grunt out there in the in the jungles. 10:56 I feel sorry for you guys, because I mean-- 10:59 Our Air Force-- 11:01 I didn't have none of that. Actually you know-- 11:04 You seen any action? 11:05 Well, yes. 11:06 Actually I mean, we've been bombed quite a bit 11:09 but we had running water, we had-- 11:12 Wow. 11:13 We had bathrooms and, 11:15 you know, it was just different. 11:17 I had a place like I'm living here 11:19 and I didn't had to sleep on the ground 11:21 but we were getting bombed quite frequently 11:24 and so that was the only negative point. 11:26 I was on the parameters of-- 11:29 we were getting shot at and bombed. 11:31 Well, I had a trenching tool. 11:32 You know trenching tool is? 11:33 No. A small shovel. 11:34 No. Yeah, wasn't that small shovel? 11:36 That was my bathroom. Okay. 11:38 You used it quite a bit. 11:39 Oh, I had to, I had to. 11:41 Yes, take it out and strike it in the ground 11:42 and do your thing. 11:43 You had to survive? 11:44 I had to survive. You had to survive. 11:47 And you had running water? 11:48 Yeah, we had running water I had to survive with that. 11:50 Now if we had water we had to put 11:53 a little peel in our canteen before we drink the water, 11:56 purification type. 11:57 Oh, we saw those peels and I just felt 11:59 so bad for you guys. 12:01 So you didn't have to use the peel? 12:03 No. 12:04 It was a different time and era though. 12:06 No, I was just about to say you where, 12:09 we-- you know, 12:10 I guess I had to say that I was a low visor 12:13 because I knew I didn't want to go and be a grunt. 12:16 Okay. 12:17 And I knew that Air Force-- 12:18 You all knew that term, you used that term? 12:20 Yes, and I knew Air Force was my way out of that. 12:22 Oh, I see. 12:23 I didn't anticipate that I was ever going to Vietnam. 12:26 But you did go to Vietnam. 12:28 After my first year in the military. 12:29 Wow, and when you had got word 12:32 that you're going to Vietnam, what did that do to your-- 12:34 It was out breaking because it was some dynamics 12:37 that really went up to that. 12:39 My brother who was already in the military, 12:42 he was in the army and he was stationed in Germany 12:44 and he was the one that really 12:46 convinced me to go to Air Force. 12:47 He said, if you got an opportunity, go to Air Force. 12:49 So you know, I had to go to Vietnam, right. 12:51 And when I finally joined the Air Force, 12:55 I felt pretty comfortable and pretty safe about that, 12:58 I'm not going to Vietnam. 12:59 After my first year in military 13:01 that's the first place they sent me was to Vietnam. 13:04 You know, so I wrote my brother a letter 13:06 with some few choices words, 13:07 you know, I had to re-pen them later. 13:10 Because you ended up going. 13:12 Pastor, what was it like when you had to tell 13:14 your parents and your sisters and you were leaving? 13:17 How did they feel? 13:18 I think, you know, my father having spent time 13:20 in the Air Force like yourself, he was very supportive. 13:23 My mom was supportive too but she was heartbroken. 13:27 She had lost her brother in the army 13:29 through an experience and I'm her only son. 13:32 So that was very hard for them deal with. 13:35 I can imagine. 13:36 And I carried their burden with me 13:37 because you don't want to be that guy 13:40 to bring heartbreak to your mom, you know. 13:43 Was any a time when you were 13:44 out of communication with your family? 13:46 You know, being that it was a more modern experience, 13:48 they had internet and that-- 13:50 so I tried to stay in pretty much 13:53 solid communication with them 13:54 but you didn't want to tell them everything 13:56 because you didn't want them to worry. 13:58 Sure. 13:59 You know, it's just very difficult. 14:00 I'm about to go on a mission and this maybe my last message. 14:03 Right. Right. Oh, no, no. 14:04 You we never did that, you know, so-- 14:06 What about post-traumatic stress disorder 14:08 and dealing with issues as that, 14:10 Arthur, let's talk about post-traumatic stress disorder. 14:12 Well, before we get to the post-traumatic stress, 14:14 there's one thing that I want to talk about. 14:16 I wanted to talk about the combat experience itself. 14:19 So you were injured while you were over there, 14:23 tell us about that. 14:25 Well, let me tell you a little story. 14:30 I was out on patrol, 14:31 a point man was shot right to the throat. 14:34 What? 14:35 And for three days we had to carry the soldier, 14:38 'cause, you know the army motto, 14:40 never leave a soldier behind. 14:43 And this is about a 175- 80 pound of dead weight 14:47 plus all your-- 14:48 For three days? 14:50 Yeah, for three days until we had to go to our rendezvous 14:53 for the choppers to come pick us up 14:56 And we got back to our base camp, 14:59 writing love letters, Sergeant Reinpi our squad lead, 15:03 he said, when you go back on the tour, 15:06 you are on the point. 15:08 Now I'll remind you that in my squad 15:10 I was the only black 15:13 and yet I outranked all the other whites there. 15:16 So I was this token guy to have to guard on the point. 15:21 Now the point, you are about 20 meters 15:24 ahead of your squad of the-- whatever the case is. 15:29 And every day, you know, what I said, 15:32 if I get shot at, I'm gonna kill this guy. 15:35 You was gonna kill your squad leader? 15:37 I was gonna kill my squad-- I'll kill him 15:39 because I was his token guy. 15:41 And every day he would say, Gray, you did a good job. 15:44 Oh, blankey-blank, using choice words. 15:49 Second day, man, I'm proud, you did a good job, 15:51 blankety-blank. 15:53 I would bless him out. 15:55 Around the fourth day out on the field 15:58 I'm out there just all of sudden 16:00 you hear the little tweak, 16:03 we hear something like that 16:04 because you train, by training in Panama, 16:09 listening pulse out there all night 16:11 listening for different sounds you heard a little-- 16:14 Oh, you heard it? 16:16 I heard it, because my ears were well trained to sound. 16:22 So I get down, low crawled about 12-15 meters 16:26 and all of sudden that man shows up 16:29 I just pulled the trigger. 16:31 Wow. 16:32 Shot him right in the face. 16:35 And I had a shotgun at the time, 16:37 I'd walk and point in the bush. 16:39 One shot, pulled up my 45 16:42 and start lineup the area and used all seven clips I had. 16:46 Every grenade I had I threw at him. 16:48 That was my goodness, I'm out of everything 16:51 but at the end of that little fire fight 16:53 there were four guys dead 16:56 and we get back to our fire support base 16:59 and the word came that, 17:01 Gray, the old man want to see you. 17:03 Now the old man, you know, it's a captain. 17:06 I said, oh, my goodness 17:07 I'm gonna be court-martialed and going to jail 17:10 and everything for being-- insubordinate of my, 17:14 to my sergeant. 17:16 I gonna see the captain, he said, Gray, 17:19 I understand the problem you had out on the field. 17:22 He said, Sergeant White put you in before the bronze star 17:25 and here's your corporal stripes. 17:27 My, my, my. 17:29 So you got your bronze star? 17:30 Yeah, that's how I got a bronze star. 17:32 Excellent. Excellent. 17:34 Well, see I bet lot of people didn't know that. 17:36 I didn't know that. It was that. 17:37 And you got the purple heart as well, right? 17:41 Not only that, the commendation medal, 17:45 purple heart. 17:48 Wow. 17:49 Now were you injured during that time 17:50 when you were out in the wilderness or combat? 17:53 No, this was during the-- now after I leave '75 17:57 Thanksgiving '67, 17:58 we lost oh-- as we ended, 18:01 a 141 paratroopers were killed during this fire big fighting. 18:06 The good Lord blessed me not to get one scratch on me 18:09 but you round up by bodies. 18:12 And you have a lot of soldier today who would not celebrate 18:16 Thanks giving as because of that. 18:17 Is that right? 18:18 I went across a guy fired in the Wal-Mart. 18:22 He had a one semi-third patch up. 18:24 I said, hey trooper. 18:26 He said, airborne, you know, 18:28 and he started telling me the story. 18:31 We sat, reminiscing, he was in the same battalion 18:34 I was in Vietnam. 18:36 Matter of fact, he called me this morning 18:39 and they also done a documentary of all the guys 18:42 who served 173rd because you don't see 18:44 too many guys that's alive that served 173rd. 18:49 Wow. 18:51 While I went to the 173rd in May of '67, 18:55 they had 45 paratroopers their couplings over-ran 18:59 and all of them were starting to hit twice. 19:02 And down at Fort Campbell-- 19:04 Executions. Was all executions. 19:06 Oh, my goodness. 19:08 While now, pastor, you have a story or two 19:11 what you've seen and can you gonna share something with us? 19:14 Yes, I would say a month end to my tour in Iraq, 19:18 on my first tour at the end of 2004 19:20 all the way to the end of 2005, 19:23 I was in my office 19:24 preparing for my message for the following-- 19:26 for the morning, 19:28 Sunday morning and my chaplain assistant 19:30 ran to my office and said, 19:32 chaplain there's a C-130 down the airfield and you know, 19:35 I just kind of went into a space of shock 19:38 because nothing prepares you for that. 19:40 But I merely fell back on my training 19:43 and grab my body armor and my Kevlar 19:46 and my chaplain's kit and jumped in the vehicle 19:50 and ran out to the field with her. 19:51 And when I got there, 19:52 there were bodies lying on the ground, 19:57 and you could smell the JP-8 fuel 19:59 from the burning helicop-- from the burning C-130. 20:03 The medics were attending to the bodies. 20:05 I saw the pilots drifting around 20:07 with that 1,000 mile steer. 20:09 They were lost. 20:10 And you know it comes a point and time, 20:12 what do you do as a chaplain? 20:14 Do you minister to them from the spiritual needs 20:17 or do you go to the immediate needs of the physical stuff? 20:20 Well, the physical stuff 20:21 was being taken care of by the medics. 20:23 So I knew my responsibility was to minister to those people 20:26 and get their minds in a right place. 20:28 Help the medics so that they could do their job effectively 20:31 and then try to minister to those soldiers 20:33 who were hurting and wounded. 20:34 And so as they were escorting the bodies to the litter, 20:38 on the litter to the helicopters, 20:39 the medevac helicopters, 20:40 I ran with them and pray with them and encourage them. 20:44 And then there was an individual 20:45 on the ground completely naked. 20:46 They didn't know what was wrong with him 20:47 and they stripped all of his clothes, 20:49 why is this soldier unconscious. 20:50 And as I walked up, I'm not quite sure 20:52 if the medics knew I was a chaplain 20:54 because you get all that stuff on 20:56 but it was almost as if they, 20:57 you know, the Red Sea parted when I came up and I-- 20:59 I came up they stop doing what they were doing 21:02 and I knelt down and, 21:04 you know, it is at that point of time 21:06 when the doctors have done all that they can do. 21:08 You know, where sometimes God shows up 21:11 and He used me to pray for that person. 21:14 And the Lord blessed 21:16 and not one person died from that experience. 21:18 Wow. 21:19 But that was my introduction to war and it was after that, 21:22 that bad stuff started happening all the time. 21:24 IED's were blown out 21:26 which is improvised explosive devices. 21:28 We're transportation maintenance 21:29 so we are out on the road constantly. 21:31 You know, it was not a linear war 21:33 so the war was all around us. 21:35 We were getting mortared every day 21:37 but going out outside the wire 21:40 which is off of the base as you know, 21:43 we were always constantly getting attacked. 21:45 And-- but it was 21:47 from those type of experiences 21:48 and I-- and you know, 21:50 there's a generational gap 21:52 between the battles and the wars 21:54 that we are in this same room but I also got a bronze star 21:59 but it was quite different experience, you know, 22:02 my journey being shot at and blown up, 22:04 then actually carrying a weapon 22:06 and having to defend my own life. 22:08 I'm sitting there waiting for the other guys to do it 22:10 while I take care their mental, spiritual welfare. 22:13 That's amazing. 22:14 You know, that both of you have bronze stars, 22:16 we didn't know that before the show. 22:18 And you know, it's really tremendous, 22:21 I mean, our country owns both of you a lot of debt. 22:25 One of the things 22:26 that I would like to ask you about is coming back home. 22:31 Coming back home was different for you, 22:34 as a Vietnam vet, because in myself, 22:37 it was different. 22:38 But coming back home for you was more of a celebration. 22:43 Absolutely. 22:45 Welcoming a hero. 22:46 Yes, indeed. 22:48 For you and me it was like being degraded 22:52 and like how dare you participate in that war? 22:56 I mean, I've had an experience 22:57 when I was-- when I studied 22:59 at University of Michigan, 23:01 I went out on a date with this girl. 23:03 As we were talking, 23:06 we were talking about our backgrounds 23:08 and I say, well, you know, 23:10 I just recently got out of military and she paused, 23:13 she said, did you go to Vietnam? 23:15 I said, yes, and she got up and left. 23:18 You know, because that's what they thought. 23:20 Right. 23:21 You know, I saw her next day 23:22 she wanted to apologize and I left. 23:25 So it was just-- 23:28 we came home to a lot of negativity. 23:33 How was that for you? 23:36 I came home with lot of guilt. 23:38 The guilt was killing all those people in 'Nam. 23:42 And when I got wounded in 'Nam, 23:47 the devastating part of it is that 23:50 I was the third person on patrol. 23:54 Sergeant White said-- 23:55 So you weren't on the point during this time? 23:57 Oh, no, no, I was up there in rank a little bit, 24:02 the experience, and we had a dog with us, 24:06 you know, and the dog was on the alert. 24:08 You know, when the dog is on the alert 24:10 you have to call in the headquarter, 24:12 let them know that the dog is on the alert 24:15 and they give you some feedback, 24:18 be caution, do this, do this. 24:20 So we had to take our weapons off safety 24:25 and put them on semi-automatic 24:27 because we knew that something was happening. 24:30 So I was the third person in line, 24:33 Sergeant White said, move towards the rear 24:36 to cover the rear flank. 24:39 And as soon as I did that, we was ambushed. 24:44 I mean, they came from everywhere 24:47 and out of 14 of us on patrol, 24:49 11 of us was killed. 24:52 All 14 of us was wounded, 24:54 I mean, was hit and I'm one of the three guy that survived, 24:58 I'm in better shape than the other two. 25:01 When I was hit, I was shot through the, 25:05 through the side, 25:06 the bullet came out my bellybutton, 25:10 one bullet went through my left thigh. 25:13 But the devastating part about it, 25:15 when I looked at my hand, my finger was gone. 25:18 Then I felt this warm stuff, 25:21 you know, just on my legs 25:23 that all my guts was blown up 25:25 and I just said oh, my goodness 25:28 this is my last day on earth. 25:30 You know, you could just see the guys all around, 25:34 just fallen and crying 25:36 and crying for their mother and kin. 25:38 These are 19, 20 year old kids, you know. 25:41 I was 19, I got shot. 25:44 Nineteen years old. Nineteen years old. 25:46 Like a child. 25:47 And yet we go and kill, 25:49 but when we came home back in six weeks, 25:52 couldn't buy beer, you couldn't do this, 25:55 you couldn't do that 25:56 but you're old enough to go and kill. 25:57 Right. Right. 25:58 That was one of things 25:59 that was talked about quite frequently. 26:01 Yes. 26:03 You know, that you're old enough to go to the military 26:05 and go fight but you're not own enough 26:07 to come back and vote 26:08 or go to a liquor store or do anything. 26:11 Yeah, couldn't do anything. 26:12 You know, for those who were drinking liquor 26:14 it was just something that they used 26:17 as some type of political ploy 26:20 Well, we only have about two minutes left 26:22 but we'll be right back 26:23 with a little bit more information 26:25 about service and the military. 26:38 Arthur, I wanted to talk about in closing, 26:40 to go back to post-traumatic stress disorder. 26:42 Okay. 26:43 Pastor, let's talk about post-traumatic stress 26:45 and what it's done to the people 26:47 who have come back home. 26:49 Post-traumatic stress is a serious issue 26:51 that America has to deal with 26:53 because you have hundreds of thousands of soldiers. 26:55 It's less than one percent of the population 26:57 but there is hundreds of thousands of soldiers 26:59 that are left to deal and grapple 27:01 with their experience over there. 27:03 Post-traumatic stress is very high. 27:05 I talked to some World War II veterans 27:07 and they say we didn't really had to deal with that too much 27:09 because we were trying to get a job 27:11 but the impact that it's left 27:14 with the soldiers today is really a detoxification. 27:18 How to reestablish relationships, 27:19 how to go back and work in McDonald's, 27:22 mopping floors when you were ruling a world over here? 27:24 And so you have folks 27:25 that are having difficulty in their marriages. 27:28 I heard the other day that 18 soldiers 27:30 a month are committing suicide. 27:33 This is a psychological impact that's left with them 27:36 when they find that there's no other route 27:38 to manage their problems 27:40 and they are checking themselves out on life. 27:42 And as a chaplain, 27:43 it's been my responsibility to educate them. 27:46 When you are dealing with the worst experience 27:49 that you ever thought you could imagine, 27:52 how do you sustain in the worse 27:55 that life has to throw at you? 27:57 And so we try to teach soldiers the methods of survival. 28:00 Okay. Okay. 28:02 Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about and so much-- 28:06 will you come back and be with us again? 28:07 Yes. 28:08 Because, I mean, there's so much more 28:09 we need to talk about. 28:11 Listen, I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin. 28:13 And I'm Arthur Nowlin. 28:14 And thank you for joining us 28:15 on another program of "Making it Work." |
Revised 2015-04-27