Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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Welcome to "Making It Work."
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Our topic today "Children
Of Incarcerated Parents."
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A very serious topic,
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a topic that's hitting
home more and more everyday.
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Arthur, I want to share
some statistics with you.
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Okay.
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In the United States
in 1999 about two percent
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of our minors more
than 1.5 million children
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had a parent in
state of federal prison.
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Ten percent of
all minor children
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7.3 million children
have a parent in prison,
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jail or on
probation or on parole.
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Amen.
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The source the
National Centre for Children
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and Families in Washington, DC,
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October 31st, 2002.
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Give me some feedback on that.
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It's amazing and at this point,
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I could see that is--
would even get greater.
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We're dealing in some
real difficult economic times
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and people are
willing to take risk.
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Risk their freedom and
the next thing you know
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we're talking
about incarceration.
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Well, this is also
as you said has impacted
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financial stability,
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relationship
with their children.
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Absolutely.
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The children social skills
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and keeping their
children balanced.
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Well, today on our program
we have two special guests,
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Leslie and Maya Hightower.
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Welcome to "Making
It Work." Thank you.
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Hi. How you doing?
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Fine. Good.
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Well, we know
over last few years
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she's been
experiencing some difficulty.
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Why don't you
tell us your story?
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Well, my husband
went to federal prison
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because of selling drugs
and he just put a strain on me
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because I had to do
everything about myself.
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But luckily I have family,
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friends to help me
financially and spiritually.
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And it was kind of difficult
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at first
dealing with my daughter
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'cause she was really
going through some hard times.
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And I felt you
know maybe she needed
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to talk to a
counsellor so I did that
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and it helped her
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and than we got along
and you know lot better.
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Okay, how long did
she see a therapist?
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It was less than a year.
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Just a little while
to get her acclimated to,
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you know, the situation.
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How old was she then? Nine.
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She was nine-years-old.
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Maya, how did you feel,
I mean going to a therapist
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to talk about some of the things
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that you were experiencing?
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Well, I felt sort of, you
know, scared or, you know,
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just little weird or awkward
and but it helped, it did.
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Okay.
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Can you tell me like,
what was some of the things
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that you were dealing
with some of the problems
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that you were encountering?
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Basically just
little hurt and yeah--
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I can understand
that being hurt, you know,
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how did you feel
and when you were told
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that your father was
going to be arrested?
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Well, I wasn't really
told, I was basically, you know,
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there so it was deep.
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It was deep.
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So you were there when
they arrested your father?
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Yes.
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That's a lot for a
little girl to experience.
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Let me ask you, how often
do you talk to your father?
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I usually talk
to him every Sabbath
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or if I don't talk to him
then probably twice a month.
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Twice a month,
was that ever a period
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when you did not
talk to your father?
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What do you mean
didn't talk to him?
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When he was
arrested, was it ever a period
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that you never talk to him
or even after he got arrested
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and he was
sentenced, you continued
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the
communication with your father?
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That's beautiful.
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Leslie, you said one
thing about transition.
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I mean, and I'm
using the word transition,
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I mean at one point
you were living a lifestyle
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that was comfortable for
you and then all of a sudden
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that lifestyle was interrupted.
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How did that impact you?
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It was hard but, you
know, I always knew that
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material things were
not really that important
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when you're dealing with family.
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Family is more
important so-- as long as I had,
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you know, my daughter
and make sure she was okay,
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I was fine.
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That brings up another question.
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If you felt that
the material things
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were not that important to
you and then your husband felt
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that it was
very important to you
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what kind of conflict was
it having within the household?
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It was-- it was a
conflict because I would say,
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you know, its
not is more important
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than you being
home with the family.
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So he felt
opposite so things happened.
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Absolutely, well.
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Okay, Leslie, what
as a mother did you do
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to try to give support?
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'Cause you saw the
anger, you saw her disappointed
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and I'm sure she was
going through some changes.
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What type of
structure did you have to do
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when you talk about transition,
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what did you do to
help pull her back,
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pull her back to you?
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Spend time with her
and you know make sure
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she was surrounded
by positive things.
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Okay, all right.
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I know church is
a great influence
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and your relationship and
I always was said in Maya,
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you know it was so good
to see a smile on her face.
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Even when all this happening,
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I would always see here
smile even your continents.
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What was-- what was
the formula for that?
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The Lord.
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Okay.
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The Lord has really
helped me through a lot of stuff
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so give then
honor and glory to Him.
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That's a good point
because you both, you know,
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you and your husband
were raised in the church
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and then all of a
sudden something happened
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and split came.
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Did you have any idea
or did you sense anything
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that was causing this diversity
between the both of you?
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I know the devil
is busy in, you know,
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he really cares about the family
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so he started to do
things to try to keep I guess
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the lifestyle that he wanted.
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So that's what happened.
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So bringing it
back to the relation
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with you and your
husband and the marriage,
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you were in a marriage.
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How long have you been married?
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I can't remember
the exact year now
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but it was got married in 92.
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92, so being in a situation
where you have a relationship
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and then it begins
to deviate you know,
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how you dealt with
your own self as a women
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being married, your
husband is incarcerated
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and I know at
times you are lonely,
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you need that relationship,
how have you cope with that?
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Stay busy and you
know focus on the Lord
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and I'm in school so that helps
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to take up the extra
time that I have on my hands.
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Now you are in
school, what are you studying?
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Surgical technology.
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Okay. Why that field?
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It's-- to give me a
good presence of a stability
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and financial stability.
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And that's what you
need for your daughter,
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you and your daughter.
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Maya, I'm thinking you know,
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dad is not in home,
you can't touch him,
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you can't go to
the store with him
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or he can't
wrestle with you now that.
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Is that hard for
you deal within times.
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At times it is hard but
then you just got to think--
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keep thinking
positive and think that
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he will be home soon
and keep praying about him.
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Okay.
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And when is his date of release?
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March or six months after that.
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Of 2012. 2012.
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Okay.
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You know Maya,
did your grade slip,
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did your grades fall?
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I'm not sure.
Did my grades fall?
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During this time?
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Not-- not really.
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So grade stayed well.
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Did you and mom, did
mom have to, you know,
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Maya, don't do this.
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Maya, stop this.
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Maya, did you try to
use this as a excuse to be,
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you know, disobedient?
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It might have
been pretty well for me
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at the beginning but calm down.
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You came to your senses?
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All right, that's a good thing
to come to your sense, right.
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All right.
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Can you give me some
idea of probably would have--
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would be one of
the career fear fields
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that you've
chosen for yourselves.
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Something that you thought about
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being when you graduated
from college or high school.
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I thought about being a nurse
or a sports medicine doctor.
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Okay. Okay, I
guess you can make it.
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All right, that's great.
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Now have you
been to the facility
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where your father is
to see him in person?
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Yes. Tell us about that.
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Well, it's
different. It's different.
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And you just basically
check in you got to take off
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a lot to you know, and
you just walk back into the--
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they take you in going
through the thing and--
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The security.
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The security after
you pass that thing
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you are walking outside sort of
and you see the tall bars there
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and then you walk
into the-- it's a room.
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And it's a pretty big size
room and there is lots of chairs
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and there's
little outside opening
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where you can like
go outside and sit.
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All right.
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Also one thing, you have
the opportunity to hug him
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and touch him and it's
not a glass or partition
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that's separating you.
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You know, you get a
chance to get that good hug
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and before you
leave and stuff like that.
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Yeah. That's excellent.
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What do you all talk about?
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Can you share that with
us, what do you talk about?
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We talk about
school and life at home.
00:10:54.73\00:11:01.39
And we talk about
when he comes back.
00:11:01.42\00:11:04.71
Well, some of the things
that he wants to do for you,
00:11:04.74\00:11:07.05
when he comes back.
00:11:07.08\00:11:09.24
Oh, no, the basics
anytime and the ropes
00:11:09.27\00:11:14.53
what he asked to do before
he came out, stabilize again.
00:11:14.56\00:11:20.60
Has he apologized to you?
00:11:20.63\00:11:23.13
Did he said, he
was sorry or anything?
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Okay, how did
that make you feel?
00:11:25.68\00:11:29.20
It makes me feel,
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it helps like, it helps comfort.
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Very good, very good.
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You know, Maya,
everything in life and Leslie,
00:11:34.42\00:11:36.38
and I've learned
that in with Arthur,
00:11:36.41\00:11:38.29
in our own family even
with God we have choices.
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It comes down to
the right choices
00:11:42.40\00:11:44.23
or the wrong choices.
00:11:44.26\00:11:45.98
And you have to
look at your lives today
00:11:46.01\00:11:48.52
as what you have to
do to make right choices.
00:11:48.55\00:11:51.83
What would you say to a mother
or parent going through this
00:11:51.86\00:11:55.22
because we also have
women who are incarcerated?
00:11:55.25\00:11:58.40
What would you say to someone
this has been four years,
00:11:58.43\00:12:01.79
you were nine old
now you are 13, Maya?
00:12:01.82\00:12:04.72
Yes. It's been four years.
00:12:04.75\00:12:06.17
What would you say to
those our viewers today?
00:12:06.20\00:12:08.82
What would you say?
00:12:08.85\00:12:11.87
To always have faith
and to trust in the Lord
00:12:11.90\00:12:17.23
and don't get
angry and just realize
00:12:17.26\00:12:20.64
that everyone
is just a step away
00:12:20.67\00:12:23.74
from doing something
that they might regret.
00:12:23.77\00:12:27.39
So just stay focus on the Lord.
00:12:27.42\00:12:29.76
Focus on the Lord. Maya?
00:12:29.79\00:12:31.96
I say hanging
there 'cause it can rough
00:12:31.99\00:12:35.28
but just praying
while they are in,
00:12:35.31\00:12:37.43
God will work things out.
00:12:37.46\00:12:39.64
Maya, were your
peers supportive to you
00:12:39.67\00:12:41.53
when they found out that
your father was incarcerated
00:12:41.56\00:12:43.94
or did you talk
about it within your peers.
00:12:43.97\00:12:46.94
Yes, I talk to it
with a few friends
00:12:46.97\00:12:49.49
and some of my friends
are in a same situation.
00:12:49.52\00:12:52.63
So yeah, they're
supportive and the school
00:12:52.66\00:12:55.62
that I go to
Pearson One Academy.
00:12:55.65\00:13:00.03
Someone there my friends
father was incarcerated too.
00:13:00.06\00:13:05.21
Is that right? So
he talked to me to--
00:13:05.24\00:13:08.13
And he's
released now? Excellent.
00:13:08.16\00:13:09.66
And he's talked to
you. That's wonderful.
00:13:09.69\00:13:12.67
Leslie, were you angry?
00:13:12.70\00:13:17.50
Oh, yes, a little
bit. Yeah, I was angry.
00:13:17.53\00:13:19.92
How did you get over with that?
00:13:19.95\00:13:23.62
Just knowing that I'm
not perfect in everybody,
00:13:23.65\00:13:26.25
you know, makes
mistakes and just keep--
00:13:26.28\00:13:30.46
keep having the faith.
00:13:30.49\00:13:31.58
That sounds too
easy. It's been lot--
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.45
Come on, you-- you
want to hit a punching bag.
00:13:33.48\00:13:36.43
Did you want to hit somebody?
00:13:36.46\00:13:37.82
I mean, your whole
life has changed now
00:13:37.85\00:13:40.99
and we had
opportunity to visit your home.
00:13:41.02\00:13:43.97
And but-- one thing
I can say about you,
00:13:44.00\00:13:46.63
you would always say
Kim, they're just things.
00:13:46.66\00:13:50.06
You will never
attach to those things
00:13:50.09\00:13:51.51
and I think that is so important
00:13:51.54\00:13:53.74
'cause you have
people who are so attached
00:13:53.77\00:13:56.15
to their homes and
cars and lifestyle.
00:13:56.18\00:13:58.12
Yeah. I mean I understand that.
00:13:58.15\00:13:59.89
You know, you're
right they are people
00:13:59.92\00:14:01.84
who are attached to things.
00:14:01.87\00:14:04.41
But Leslie, was never attached.
00:14:04.44\00:14:06.19
She never gave
us that impression.
00:14:06.22\00:14:07.86
But come on, Les,
come on, did you want--
00:14:07.89\00:14:09.58
I mean, I was-- I
was angry but I just--
00:14:09.61\00:14:13.49
I just you know.
00:14:13.52\00:14:15.11
Maybe I was too
soft. Did you cry?
00:14:15.14\00:14:17.21
Did you cry?
00:14:17.24\00:14:19.38
Did you find
moments of you just--
00:14:19.41\00:14:21.14
I was you know I was
more sad for my girls
00:14:21.17\00:14:24.01
and him than really me myself.
00:14:24.04\00:14:27.40
How did you get
to that point though?
00:14:27.43\00:14:28.60
I mean where you were
more sad for the girls
00:14:28.63\00:14:31.84
and you know and for him.
00:14:31.87\00:14:33.89
You know but how did
you get to that point?
00:14:33.92\00:14:35.67
I mean what was going?
00:14:35.70\00:14:37.05
I understand
that you said earlier
00:14:37.08\00:14:38.93
it was faith that
kept you going through.
00:14:38.96\00:14:41.45
How did you get to
the point where you just
00:14:41.48\00:14:44.58
relinquish those feelings?
00:14:44.61\00:14:46.90
I mean, 'cause like
Kim, was saying you see like,
00:14:46.93\00:14:49.74
you wanted to give him
00:14:49.77\00:14:50.80
a knuckle sandwich or something.
00:14:50.83\00:14:52.07
He said, he was
sorry and you know I just
00:14:52.10\00:14:55.02
couldn't condemn
him because you know
00:14:55.05\00:14:57.96
I had to you know
stand before the Lord too.
00:14:57.99\00:15:00.56
That's right. Very good.
00:15:00.59\00:15:01.62
I just couldn't you know.
00:15:01.65\00:15:03.40
And it's crucial
we as families today
00:15:03.43\00:15:06.35
and how we help to make it work?
00:15:06.38\00:15:08.04
We have to have
a forgiving heart.
00:15:08.07\00:15:09.89
We have to recognize that we
too are sinners saved by grace
00:15:09.92\00:15:15.35
and that we
must have forgiveness
00:15:15.38\00:15:18.16
because we make mistakes.
00:15:18.19\00:15:20.29
I like the one thing about Maya,
00:15:20.32\00:15:22.47
and again this
Maya but her attitude.
00:15:22.50\00:15:25.02
Attitude is everything.
00:15:25.05\00:15:26.59
You know, how you approached
00:15:26.62\00:15:28.23
it when you went
to see your father.
00:15:28.26\00:15:29.55
You walked in there and
you will be angry, right.
00:15:29.58\00:15:32.42
But you didn't, you came in.
00:15:32.45\00:15:34.28
Well, I know you
had to be alone nervous,
00:15:34.31\00:15:35.95
were you nervous?
00:15:35.98\00:15:37.24
I was a little nervous but--
00:15:37.27\00:15:38.91
The first time, how many
times have you been to see him?
00:15:38.94\00:15:42.58
Probably three.
00:15:42.61\00:15:44.03
Three times, all right.
00:15:44.06\00:15:46.25
You know so you get your support
00:15:46.28\00:15:47.93
from your grandparents?
00:15:47.96\00:15:50.93
Your mom's parents
00:15:50.96\00:15:52.17
and recently you
lost your grandfather.
00:15:52.20\00:15:54.68
Again our deepest
condolences of losing,
00:15:54.71\00:15:57.35
you know, your father.
00:15:57.38\00:15:59.06
A rock in the
church, a pillar in a church
00:15:59.09\00:16:01.49
but Brother Chester will
have but at the same time
00:16:01.52\00:16:05.51
being able to look
at how are you gonna
00:16:05.54\00:16:07.05
keep your family together.
00:16:07.08\00:16:08.92
You know because
you moved from your home
00:16:08.95\00:16:10.67
back in with your parents.
00:16:10.70\00:16:12.85
All right, tell us about that.
00:16:12.88\00:16:16.27
That wasn't
difficult but it was--
00:16:16.30\00:16:20.23
I was glad that I
actually moved back
00:16:20.26\00:16:23.18
because and them I
could spend some more time
00:16:23.21\00:16:24.59
with my father before he passed.
00:16:24.62\00:16:26.31
So you know things
work out for a reason.
00:16:26.34\00:16:29.24
Yes, it does and you
were there with your father.
00:16:29.27\00:16:32.27
Yeah, it was
difficult, I can imagine
00:16:32.30\00:16:34.92
because once again
we're talking about
00:16:34.95\00:16:36.59
that transition, you know,
00:16:36.62\00:16:38.78
and now you're
looking at moving your life
00:16:38.81\00:16:42.52
to a different plank.
00:16:42.55\00:16:45.09
So I have to ask this question,
00:16:45.12\00:16:48.94
is there any
possibility of reconciling?
00:16:48.97\00:16:52.06
No. Okay.
00:16:55.18\00:16:56.50
Okay.
00:16:56.53\00:16:58.21
I mean that was my initial,
00:16:58.24\00:17:01.50
I guess hope but well no.
00:17:01.53\00:17:07.05
Okay, and has he
talked to you or you know.
00:17:07.08\00:17:10.93
Oh, we-- we talk. Okay.
00:17:10.96\00:17:12.95
Have you gone
to see him, Leslie?
00:17:12.98\00:17:14.39
No.
00:17:14.42\00:17:15.51
Would that be
hard for you to do?
00:17:15.54\00:17:18.16
No, it wouldn't be hard.
00:17:18.19\00:17:19.78
Okay, but this is
not about you right now,
00:17:19.81\00:17:22.35
it's about your
daughter and her relationship.
00:17:22.38\00:17:25.66
I wanted to share
something else with you
00:17:25.69\00:17:27.59
and I think it'll be
very important for you
00:17:27.62\00:17:29.06
to know this too, Maya.
00:17:29.09\00:17:32.41
"Since 1997, the
frequency of contact between
00:17:32.44\00:17:36.80
children and their parents
in federal prison has dropped,
00:17:36.83\00:17:40.87
has dropped.
00:17:40.90\00:17:42.13
Monthly contact has
decreased by 23 percent."
00:17:42.16\00:17:45.30
So I'm so happy to hear
00:17:45.33\00:17:47.59
that you have
gone to see your father
00:17:47.62\00:17:50.42
and that is by the
Research and Advocacy
00:17:50.45\00:17:52.93
for Reform, February 2009.
00:17:52.96\00:17:56.14
Statistically it has dropped.
00:17:56.17\00:17:58.24
Children are no longer in
contact with their parents.
00:17:58.27\00:18:01.14
They have cut them off.
00:18:01.17\00:18:02.62
Excuse me for interrupting.
00:18:02.65\00:18:03.93
Another aspect has to
be involved with that.
00:18:03.96\00:18:06.02
Here what you are
saying, we got our statistics
00:18:06.05\00:18:08.89
but as I work
with this population
00:18:08.92\00:18:12.46
I also recognize
that a lot of the fathers
00:18:12.49\00:18:17.33
that maybe in a particular area
00:18:17.36\00:18:20.28
where their children or families
00:18:20.31\00:18:22.38
were are sent to long distance,
00:18:22.41\00:18:26.05
long distances
away from the family.
00:18:26.08\00:18:28.65
We're talking about
people that may go to Virginia
00:18:28.68\00:18:32.10
or Kansas City for
London or so different areas
00:18:32.13\00:18:36.01
which can be
taxing on the family
00:18:36.04\00:18:38.31
and difficult for
them to make that contact.
00:18:38.34\00:18:40.84
So that's one of the reasons
that I can see that drop.
00:18:40.87\00:18:43.82
Right.
00:18:43.85\00:18:44.88
Well, we have to take
in all the considerations.
00:18:44.91\00:18:47.70
I want to also say
having incarcerated parents
00:18:47.73\00:18:50.48
also results in school behavior.
00:18:50.51\00:18:52.63
But Maya, you said
that your performances
00:18:52.66\00:18:54.89
have been good as well as
00:18:54.92\00:18:56.88
social contacts
didn't much in shame.
00:18:56.91\00:19:00.49
Is there any shame or
guilt that you're feeling?
00:19:00.52\00:19:02.81
Probably I feel--
probably say at the beginning.
00:19:05.71\00:19:08.49
At the beginning.
00:19:08.52\00:19:10.07
Okay.
00:19:10.10\00:19:11.29
That's really
good to because also
00:19:11.32\00:19:13.92
in some of the
research that I have to looked
00:19:13.95\00:19:16.09
at it indicated that
a lot of the children
00:19:16.12\00:19:20.96
in their
opportunity to show displeasure
00:19:20.99\00:19:27.00
and what occur
what they would do
00:19:27.03\00:19:29.88
is not perform in school.
00:19:29.91\00:19:33.52
They will rebel
and that's a concern
00:19:33.55\00:19:37.45
because sometimes what
happens is the children
00:19:37.48\00:19:40.49
will follow a
path of a rebellion
00:19:40.52\00:19:43.53
and that will cost
up to look at things
00:19:43.56\00:19:46.11
in a real negative way.
00:19:46.14\00:19:48.38
But what's really important
is that you some behavior
00:19:48.41\00:19:52.24
and you addressed that behavior.
00:19:52.27\00:19:54.78
Almost definitely
and then with you,
00:19:54.81\00:19:56.85
now you're 10 years
and we don't want you
00:19:56.88\00:20:00.12
looking for love in
all the wrong places.
00:20:00.15\00:20:01.84
Daughter love their fathers.
00:20:01.87\00:20:03.71
Daughter need their fathers,
they need their parents.
00:20:03.74\00:20:06.29
So mom is serving two roles,
your father is incarcerated
00:20:06.32\00:20:09.92
but he not he is not deceased
and he is not dead in your life
00:20:09.95\00:20:13.44
but as you
develop and as you grow,
00:20:13.47\00:20:16.42
I want to encourage you Maya,
00:20:16.45\00:20:18.22
to continue to focus on
what God needs you to do
00:20:18.25\00:20:21.47
and not look
for anyway to escape
00:20:21.50\00:20:23.59
what is around you
00:20:23.62\00:20:25.10
or try to
manipulate your situation
00:20:25.13\00:20:27.46
but address your life in
honest and godly manner and,
00:20:27.49\00:20:31.03
and continue to
talk to your mom.
00:20:31.06\00:20:32.65
Do you have a good
relationship with your mother?
00:20:32.68\00:20:36.27
And I see how close you are.
00:20:36.30\00:20:37.33
Oh, what do you expect
00:20:37.36\00:20:38.45
her momma sitting
right next to her.
00:20:38.48\00:20:41.67
But I know what I know
for a fact that you have
00:20:41.70\00:20:44.00
a good
relationship with your mom
00:20:44.03\00:20:46.18
and you love your mother.
00:20:46.21\00:20:47.24
You know, you love your father?
00:20:47.27\00:20:49.10
Yeah.
00:20:49.13\00:20:50.41
Okay, you tell him
that when you talk to him?
00:20:50.44\00:20:53.08
Okay, are you ever loss of words
00:20:53.11\00:20:56.12
what to say to
him when you see him
00:20:56.15\00:20:58.44
or talk to him on the phone?
00:20:58.47\00:20:59.77
Sometimes.
00:20:59.80\00:21:01.53
Yes, I think
that's a legitimate.
00:21:01.56\00:21:02.88
You know, why do you think
00:21:02.91\00:21:03.94
that is that you
are in loss of words?
00:21:03.97\00:21:06.82
Just because you
know, it's not personal,
00:21:06.85\00:21:09.82
I'm not always like
a phone found person.
00:21:09.85\00:21:12.65
So--
00:21:12.68\00:21:13.71
That's a good point.
00:21:13.74\00:21:15.48
You really impressing
me because you seem to be
00:21:15.51\00:21:18.36
handling this whole
situation really, really well.
00:21:18.39\00:21:22.07
And I have to really,
really encourage you to continue
00:21:22.10\00:21:26.76
to look to a real bright future.
00:21:26.79\00:21:28.53
I like the way you communicate,
00:21:28.56\00:21:29.95
you have a real good
positive communication skills
00:21:29.98\00:21:33.19
and I know ever see you see
where you are loss for words.
00:21:33.22\00:21:38.96
So it was kind of hard
for me to really believe.
00:21:38.99\00:21:41.09
There are
certain times, you know,
00:21:41.12\00:21:42.15
I have some to
say on a telephone.
00:21:42.18\00:21:44.65
And, Maya, let me ask you,
00:21:44.68\00:21:46.63
what do you and
your mom do together?
00:21:46.66\00:21:48.08
What kind of things
you all share together?
00:21:48.11\00:21:51.27
We talk and you
know we can go places.
00:21:51.30\00:21:55.72
Okay, you both play basketball.
00:21:55.75\00:21:57.93
You know and you
both and you play tennis?
00:21:57.96\00:22:01.21
Do you like tennis?
Always ready for tennis.
00:22:01.24\00:22:03.15
I love tennis. Every
show I talk about tennis.
00:22:03.18\00:22:05.91
I love getting
into tennis this summer.
00:22:05.94\00:22:07.60
I haven't seen Kim,
play tennis in years.
00:22:07.63\00:22:10.15
He's at the golf course.
00:22:10.18\00:22:12.28
When is the last
time you play though?
00:22:12.31\00:22:13.37
But he is at the
golf-- on the Wii.
00:22:13.40\00:22:15.38
When is the last
time you played tennis?
00:22:15.41\00:22:17.43
On the Wii. I
play it on the Wii.
00:22:17.46\00:22:18.76
I play on the Wii all the time.
00:22:18.79\00:22:20.31
All right, why
doesn't the Wii count?
00:22:20.34\00:22:22.21
That means 'cause
you're not on the court.
00:22:22.24\00:22:24.27
I'm on the court.
Isn't that on the court?
00:22:24.30\00:22:26.19
That is serious game on the Wii
00:22:26.22\00:22:28.68
but a lot of things
that you share together
00:22:28.71\00:22:31.48
that is crucial
to the relationship.
00:22:31.51\00:22:33.92
Maya, I have another
question I want to ask you.
00:22:33.95\00:22:37.94
Women and young
ladies are going to prison
00:22:37.97\00:22:40.75
and they say due to
the fact and this again
00:22:40.78\00:22:43.93
is the Bureau of
Justice Statistics in 2005,
00:22:43.96\00:22:48.96
young ladies and
women are going to prison
00:22:48.99\00:22:52.21
because they're finding
themselves getting in trouble.
00:22:52.24\00:22:54.57
My father is in
prison, my mother's in prison.
00:22:54.60\00:22:56.85
So they're
repeating the behavior
00:22:56.88\00:22:59.47
because it's something--
they're using this as an excuse
00:22:59.50\00:23:03.21
to not function or to do well.
00:23:03.24\00:23:05.68
What can you say
to those individuals?
00:23:05.71\00:23:09.53
That's a good question.
00:23:09.56\00:23:11.11
You know, how to help
them as they're on point.
00:23:11.14\00:23:13.04
Look at you, you're
not out there you know,
00:23:13.07\00:23:17.09
destroying
property mommy is not being
00:23:17.12\00:23:19.83
called to the
school every three days.
00:23:19.86\00:23:21.97
You haven't been
arrested for any vandalism
00:23:22.00\00:23:24.33
or problems or
doing drugs and alcohol.
00:23:24.36\00:23:26.95
You know, why is it or
what can you say to them
00:23:26.98\00:23:30.68
just say, you know I
heard you say, stay focus,
00:23:30.71\00:23:33.46
stay with God.
00:23:33.49\00:23:34.72
But what's keeping
you out of trouble?
00:23:34.75\00:23:37.97
Me.
00:23:38.00\00:23:39.21
Your momma said, you already.
00:23:39.24\00:23:40.88
That's right, you know--
00:23:40.91\00:23:42.51
Is that desire inside of you
00:23:42.54\00:23:44.13
that you want to
prove statistics wrong
00:23:44.16\00:23:46.42
that you are not
gonna be a statistics
00:23:46.45\00:23:48.70
and become like
you know other children
00:23:48.73\00:23:50.97
who end up in
prison, because their parents
00:23:51.00\00:23:53.50
were in prison.
00:23:53.53\00:23:54.87
I think also you
had to look at it from
00:23:54.90\00:23:57.72
another perspective which is,
00:23:57.75\00:24:00.76
we're talking
about economic status,
00:24:00.79\00:24:04.31
we're talking
about community status.
00:24:04.34\00:24:07.28
If someone is
in that environment
00:24:07.31\00:24:11.11
then we're looking
at a strong possibility
00:24:11.14\00:24:13.81
that they may succumb
to that type of lifestyle.
00:24:13.84\00:24:18.77
Maya, is not really
in that environment.
00:24:18.80\00:24:21.77
We're talking about
Maya has a lot of support
00:24:21.80\00:24:24.07
and that's really the
key to this entire situation.
00:24:24.10\00:24:28.54
Maya, has a strong
support system with her parents,
00:24:28.57\00:24:31.84
her family, her church family,
00:24:31.87\00:24:34.57
her school and she's always
doing some, she's is active.
00:24:34.60\00:24:38.29
She is not really
missing out on a lot of things.
00:24:38.32\00:24:40.81
Well, then I got to--
I got to stop you there
00:24:40.84\00:24:42.67
because her father
was raised in the church.
00:24:42.70\00:24:45.70
Mother and father
had successful business.
00:24:45.73\00:24:47.90
He was nothing was deprived him.
00:24:47.93\00:24:50.71
But it was a choice he made.
00:24:50.74\00:24:52.37
You know I so you
have to look at the fact
00:24:52.40\00:24:54.39
that these are choices
that are made by individuals.
00:24:54.42\00:24:56.61
Yes, but with them
we're talking about once again
00:24:56.64\00:24:59.44
and I don't want to, you know,
00:24:59.47\00:25:00.69
really debate with
you in regards to that.
00:25:00.72\00:25:03.37
I'm just-- what I'm saying
is that Maya support system
00:25:03.40\00:25:07.86
and her-- her that
support is offering her
00:25:07.89\00:25:13.55
the tools that's required for
her to be successful in life.
00:25:13.58\00:25:17.59
And then we're
talking about constant support
00:25:17.62\00:25:19.99
and once again, you had a mother
00:25:20.02\00:25:22.83
who is able to
recognize particular behavior
00:25:22.86\00:25:25.96
and do something about it.
00:25:25.99\00:25:27.53
Well, I'm glad for mothers,
they say the one that rocks
00:25:27.56\00:25:30.77
the cradle rules the world.
00:25:30.80\00:25:33.50
You know, well, listen
I think it's so important
00:25:33.53\00:25:36.38
that you know we're
able to look at situations,
00:25:36.41\00:25:40.10
look at different perspectives,
00:25:40.13\00:25:41.98
be able to help
our viewers understand
00:25:42.01\00:25:43.91
because again this is a
not-- this is not a easy topic,
00:25:43.94\00:25:48.35
it's not easy as especially
00:25:48.38\00:25:49.98
because we know
them both so well
00:25:50.01\00:25:52.61
and we have
watched this situation
00:25:52.64\00:25:54.40
up close and personal.
00:25:54.43\00:25:56.21
We have prayed for you,
we have had the opportunity
00:25:56.24\00:25:59.22
to take your
daughter with us on trips.
00:25:59.25\00:26:02.44
As you extended
yourself to our daughter Micah,
00:26:02.47\00:26:04.69
many, many times.
00:26:04.72\00:26:05.75
That's my buddy,
she got my buddy.
00:26:05.78\00:26:07.71
You got my buddy.
00:26:07.74\00:26:08.94
You know so-- we
do things when we go
00:26:08.97\00:26:12.46
and we explore things
and I have never at any time
00:26:12.49\00:26:16.67
and I want you to know that
try to pin up against the wall
00:26:16.70\00:26:20.22
and say to her, what's
going on with her father?
00:26:20.25\00:26:23.05
What's going on at home?
00:26:23.08\00:26:24.55
Because I see
her as a individual
00:26:24.58\00:26:27.08
and I respect
her as a individual.
00:26:27.11\00:26:29.65
And you are more
than this situation,
00:26:29.68\00:26:32.15
do you realize that?
00:26:32.18\00:26:33.72
You are Maya Hightower.
00:26:33.75\00:26:35.33
You are more than
what this experience
00:26:35.36\00:26:37.61
but it's what you
bring out of this experience.
00:26:37.64\00:26:40.33
That's all of us is what we
bring out of this experience.
00:26:40.36\00:26:42.53
It's what she
learned from this experience.
00:26:42.56\00:26:44.67
She's learned
something that she can pass
00:26:44.70\00:26:46.91
on to other people.
00:26:46.94\00:26:47.97
Oh, definitely.
00:26:48.00\00:26:49.36
Whether she be a
nurse or she may even chose
00:26:49.39\00:26:52.52
to move to another
area like law enforcement
00:26:52.55\00:26:56.30
or be a lawyer in
some particular way,
00:26:56.33\00:26:58.53
prosecuting
attorney or defense attorney
00:26:58.56\00:27:01.09
because of your experience
00:27:01.12\00:27:02.87
with the prison
system and the legal system.
00:27:02.90\00:27:06.52
That must have been
devastated to be in the home
00:27:06.55\00:27:09.67
and somebody come
in and take your father
00:27:09.70\00:27:12.06
out of the home in handcuffs.
00:27:12.09\00:27:14.14
It was that
difficult for you? Yeah.
00:27:14.17\00:27:17.21
And you never want to have
that experience happened to you?
00:27:17.24\00:27:19.92
Now that's a learned lesson.
00:27:19.95\00:27:22.45
Listen, we'll be right
back with more information
00:27:22.48\00:27:26.10
on "Children of Incarcerated
Parents" in a few minutes.
00:27:26.13\00:27:29.31
Welcome back to
"Making It Work."
00:27:41.92\00:27:44.35
Leslie and Maya,
we want to thank you
00:27:44.38\00:27:46.25
both for being our guests.
00:27:46.28\00:27:47.48
It's been great, great.
00:27:47.51\00:27:48.80
And all the
information you've given,
00:27:48.83\00:27:50.93
we want you to know that
there's hope for your family.
00:27:50.96\00:27:53.88
Don't give up even
if the relationship
00:27:53.91\00:27:56.72
is un-reconcilable as
a decision only you God
00:27:56.75\00:28:00.33
and your spouse can make.
00:28:00.36\00:28:01.86
But remember keep God first
00:28:01.89\00:28:04.35
and remember to
help your children.
00:28:04.38\00:28:06.99
Thank you, our viewers.
00:28:07.02\00:28:09.05
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:28:09.08\00:28:10.83
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:28:10.86\00:28:12.21
Let's continue
to "Make It Work."
00:28:12.24\00:28:14.37
God bless.
00:28:14.40\00:28:15.52