Hi, I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
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I'm Arthur Nowlin.
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And welcome to "Making It Work."
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Our topic today
"Multicultural Marriages."
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Arthur, let me
ask you do you think
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that African-American
men, European-American men
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or men in general are
crossing overto other cultures
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because of what reason?
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Well, I don't think it's
just men, I think its people.
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Its people.
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People have a
opportunity to venture out
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and to find out about different
people and different countries
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because of the
technology that's available.
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The internet, smartphones
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so I just think
that it's a chance
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so they can go and
have a relationship--
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Let me ask you--
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Develop good
communication skills.
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Okay, good communication.
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Do you think if you
had to seen my picture
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which would have been
beautiful on the internet
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and you were
doing internet dating
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would you have selected me?
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It's no doubt I
would have select you.
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It is the thing about it is,
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when I had
opportunity to talk to you
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would have still keep you.
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All right, well, good we
didn't meet through the internet
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but he has kept
me as a blessing.
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Truly a blessing.
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Pastor, I want to welcome you
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and your beautiful wife
Vivian to "Making It Work."
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you.
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Listen, I want to go back
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a ittle bit with
you, Pastor Willis.
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Sometime ago you went
through a difficult time.
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Can you share
that with our viewers?
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Yes, I was
married for about a year
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and that didn't quite
workout the way I planed.
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You know, we ended
up getting divorced.
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You know,
pastors in my lifetime,
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you know, my view of what
my life was gonna be about
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I didn't imagined that
I would ever have to go
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through a difficult
experience like that.
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I see.
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So this was unbeknownst to you
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that she was
contemplating divorcing you.
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Well, I knew that
things were gonna start turning
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the corner when I--
she came home one day
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and car smell
like cigarette smoke.
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Oh, okay.
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And as that was the
beginning of the discovery
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that life was very
different in our house for her
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than it was for me.
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I see, I see.
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Were you of the same
persuasion in denomination?
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Absolutely, we belong
to the same faith group,
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I met her in the church and,
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so I believed I
had a good situation.
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I see, so you had
to make a decision?
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I did and really the
decision came to me to make,
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you know, wasn't
that I independently
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wanted to make that decision,
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it was kind of
brought to me that way
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and things happened outside
the bonds of marriage that,
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you know, it didn't
leave me with a lot of choices.
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I see.
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Let me ask being a pastor
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it was probably a
difficult situation for you.
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How did you handle it?
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It was devastating,
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because everybody
is looking up at you,
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you living a public life,
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so I felt the impression
that people were making
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a lot of
assumptions that were not true.
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And so it was difficult
to us to have that face
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and keep that smiling face
while I'm preaching sermon.
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And in fact people didn't know
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what was going on
in my private life
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and I'm still
pastoring and ministering
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and I find myself
crying at the end of sermons
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and things like that,
it was very difficult time.
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We saw you many times and
just we were able to extend
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a hug to you like, you
know, we're praying for you.
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But oh, what a blessing.
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What a
blessing! What a blessing!
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The Lord has for you.
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Yes.
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And the things have been moving
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very, very quickly in your life.
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Well, tell us, Vivian, how
did you meet Pastor Willis?
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We met online.
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You met online?
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Oh, yes.
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All right, and then
what happened just tell us.
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I just want to know, you
know, I want to know everything.
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Well, I was in this site
for trying to find someone
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because sometimes
your circle gets reduced
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you know to charge your space
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and then I live in South Chile
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and I don't get
to go out that much.
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And there are not
"datable men" in my church.
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It's a college so
most of them are young
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and I got to
certain age in my 30s
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so I decided to give a try.
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Give a try. Yes.
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Were you born
and raised in Chile?
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No, I was born in
Wattamolla really.
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Okay. Yes.
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My parents were
missionaries so they move
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every year to
different countries, places--
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So you bring a lot
of wealth and knowledge
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and experience to
this relationship.
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Amen. She is well traveled back.
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Yes, she is. Yes, I'm.
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Yes, we have to keep
her in that lifestyle, okay.
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We often compete about you
know whose traveled the most
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and I think she has been beaten.
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Oh, wow.
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So, pastor, what happened
when you saw her picture?
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What happened?
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I-- her picture
was breathtaking.
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It's really what captured me
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and I ended up
writing her three times
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after she already said
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hey, you know I'm
not really interested.
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I'm looking in
different direction
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and I kept writing
her and I made her laugh
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so she-- she couldn't resist.
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Yeah, that's right.
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What direction
was she looking into?
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I'm not sure
but-- What direction?
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But it wasn't my direction.
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The thing is
that when he wrote me
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and I saw this guy that wrote me
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it didn't have
a picture profile.
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So I thought he was
not serious you know
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he's just those that
who write to any woman.
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So I was like no,
may God bless you.
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And he wrote me the second time
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some weeks later
and again I reject--
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no I didn't
write the second time.
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You didn't write.
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And the third time
he write I say wow,
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this guy must have
some confidence in himself.
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What was in those
emails and those messages?
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Oh, magic, magic magic. Magic.
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I know how to write.
You got to lead at the line.
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Leo thinks it alone.
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But did you ever
upload a picture?
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You know what I
ended up sending her
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an independent
video, independent photos.
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And the reason was because
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they were members of my
church on that same website.
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And so I think it
might have made it
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a little uncomfortable--
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So I didn't want to
put my self out like that.
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Now, Vivian, tell
me what you said to me
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before prior to the program,
if he was serious about you
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what did you tell me him to do?
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I told him come see me.
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Are you serious?
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I am serious.
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Now trying to come
across the you know like--
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Wait a minute,
that's the same thing
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that's been said in
all cultures you know--
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Come see me.
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Come see me. Come check me out.
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Well, we had this talking
going a couple of miles see,
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we're talking--
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how long the flight was, pastor?
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I think it's a six
to eight hour flight.
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Oh, my goodness.
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It's not too bad because
going to Iraq was like 16 hours.
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That was easy. That was easy.
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All right, so were you
nervous? Were you nervous?
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Okay, so how was
this all arranged
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that you were going to
meet in that particular time?
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Well, I ask him to come
and see me on my birthday.
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Oh, you hear that?
Oh, on her birthday.
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Secrets.
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Now, let me--
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you know that's
what we have to do,
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and now let's be
specific what we want.
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Specific. Okay and
then what happened?
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And then he flew, over
there I pick him at the airport
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and I took him to
my little village,
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and he stayed over there.
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He brought the whole bunch
of presents for me, I was wow--
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What kind of
presents? What kind of presents?
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Calvin Klein perfumes.
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Oh, nice. Oh, my goodness.
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I love that.
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And, pastor, what
made you eagerly go?
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I mean, what
sent you on that fire?
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As we were talking in
our communication online
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I realized that
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I wasn't the only one
communicating with her.
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So you know it was a great
race to get to the finish line,
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but there was not a hurry.
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Because there
was a lot to discover
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but I wanted to
se her, I wanted to--
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What was the timeframe?
What was the timeframe
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from being on in--
online and you going?
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I think we talked
maybe five months.
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Okay. Okay.
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So we're talking about some time
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that's involved from the time
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that you were
purging up unto this point.
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Right, from the past
relationships, you know,
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I held to a quote "Tough times
don't last, tough people do."
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So I gave myself a space
of time to heal and detox
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and to build up my
spirit with the Lord
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and I had
encouragement from my parents
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and I made it
through by God's grace.
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And there was trust again?
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That's right. That's right.
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Oh, it's difficult
what you went through.
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Excellent. But
the Lord freed me.
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He freed you. He
freed me, deliver me
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and I was ready
to move on to joy
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and the joy that Lord had.
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So you were looking--
you wanted to be married--
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And have a family. Absolutely.
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And the joy was there.
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That's right.
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So was it love at first sight?
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Well, for me it was.
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All right.
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For her I don't think
so, but for me it was.
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I think she fell
in love with my words.
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Yes, yes. Oh, your words.
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Yes, he brought a lot of joy
speaking about joy to my life.
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It was winter time in Chile
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and every time I read
his messages I would laugh
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and echo of my laugh
would sound all over my house
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you know and I
would sleep by self
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in a farm so I was cold--
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And it was so-- so nice,
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so joyful to a-- I was
looking forward to read
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that message from him everyday.
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You know, we as
women we need letters
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I need the word.
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Send me a letter--
Is that all you need?
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A card, you know, just
like a echo through my house.
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Echo through my house. So--
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So, Kim, when you echo--
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What? I mean its like--
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No, we never gonna go there.
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You know, Pastor,
there are three calls
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you know we
talked about this before.
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There are three,
you know, I say Arthur.
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Yes. Arthur.
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Yes.
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Arthur! Yes, correct.
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Now he don't say
anything, you know,
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we have three calls, okay.
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No, it's been only
one call in our house.
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So-- so you
recognizing they say,
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you know, the first sight,
00:10:02.53\00:10:04.75
first love does it really exists
00:10:04.78\00:10:06.34
you know is that really
true, pastor, you think?
00:10:06.37\00:10:08.56
Well, when I saw her page
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I knew that there was somebody
I needed to get in touch with--
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There was some
communication through her photo
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and how I felt.
00:10:16.70\00:10:18.57
My response was
immediate. Right.
00:10:18.60\00:10:20.70
Excellent. Excellent.
00:10:20.73\00:10:22.27
So where do you go from here?
00:10:22.30\00:10:24.41
Well you know I need a sense
that from our communication
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she was spiritual and I
think that spiritual component
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was very important for me,
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especially from
my past experience
00:10:31.63\00:10:34.35
and as a pastor
you need somebody
00:10:34.38\00:10:36.12
who can gel
with you spiritually.
00:10:36.15\00:10:38.18
Yes.
00:10:38.21\00:10:39.27
And she definitely
revealed that to me
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through our communication,
that was important.
00:10:41.56\00:10:43.60
This and also being the
daughter of missionaries--
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Right.
00:10:47.12\00:10:48.15
You know, she was
already equipped to handle
00:10:48.18\00:10:50.99
the life of a pastor's life.
00:10:51.02\00:10:52.89
Right, I found that she--
she could take the riggers,
00:10:52.92\00:10:56.12
spiritual riggers
that were out there
00:10:56.15\00:10:57.91
and the challenges and she
had her own ministry going.
00:10:57.94\00:11:00.26
So she was a
Sabbath school teacher
00:11:00.29\00:11:02.01
and was very involved in church.
00:11:02.04\00:11:04.41
And, pastor, do
you speak Spanish?
00:11:04.44\00:11:06.06
( speaking in foreign language )
00:11:06.09\00:11:09.32
So I know you're learning.
00:11:09.35\00:11:10.45
Pastor, does that mean a
little or what does it mean?
00:11:10.48\00:11:13.39
It's like sanctification.
It's a work of a lifetime.
00:11:13.42\00:11:18.10
That's good. So, Vivi,
tell us your interests.
00:11:18.13\00:11:21.81
You know, what are your hopes
and aspirations for yourself?
00:11:21.84\00:11:25.43
You know what
do you enjoy doing?
00:11:25.46\00:11:27.26
I right now enjoy being a mom.
00:11:27.29\00:11:29.10
Yeah. Excellent.
00:11:29.13\00:11:30.18
And a wife, yes.
00:11:30.21\00:11:31.46
You have beautiful
Amanda. How old is Amanda?
00:11:31.49\00:11:33.56
She's five months old.
00:11:33.59\00:11:35.01
Five months. Oh,
that's beautiful.
00:11:35.04\00:11:37.04
Are you looking
forward for other children?
00:11:37.07\00:11:38.91
Yes, we are.
00:11:38.94\00:11:40.20
Excellent. Excellent.
00:11:40.23\00:11:41.61
Blessing. They are blessing.
00:11:41.64\00:11:42.98
Just one. Just one.
00:11:43.01\00:11:44.98
One more has to snug
that in one more, uno.
00:11:45.01\00:11:49.52
What you really like
about, you know, your husband?
00:11:49.55\00:11:51.78
Tell us what you
really find unique about him.
00:11:51.81\00:11:55.08
I think that--
00:11:55.11\00:11:57.28
he has a talent
from God speaking.
00:11:57.31\00:12:00.30
The Word, delivering the Word.
00:12:00.33\00:12:02.44
Delivering the
Word. Yes, I love that.
00:12:02.47\00:12:05.41
I fell in love of that
00:12:05.44\00:12:08.18
and I think that's
one of his strength
00:12:08.21\00:12:10.43
that I really admire.
00:12:10.46\00:12:12.16
Well, I agree with that
with her doing 50 percent.
00:12:12.19\00:12:15.66
It is appreciated.
00:12:15.69\00:12:16.73
All right, very talented.
00:12:16.76\00:12:18.83
Pastor, what's
something unique about Vivian
00:12:18.86\00:12:20.49
that you have grown
to recognize in her?
00:12:20.52\00:12:22.86
I think you could probably sense
00:12:22.89\00:12:24.58
or hear but it's just
her spirit you know --
00:12:24.61\00:12:26.45
Yeah. She has
this congenial spirit.
00:12:26.48\00:12:28.67
And it just transmits and
it just calms me you know--
00:12:28.70\00:12:32.50
Now you said a
key word. You did--
00:12:32.53\00:12:35.11
Don't say it.
00:12:35.14\00:12:36.17
It calms now. I'm not saying it.
00:12:36.20\00:12:37.31
In fact, he
started. It calms you, right.
00:12:37.34\00:12:39.67
Correct. You
know, especially I mean
00:12:39.70\00:12:41.49
when you deal with the riggers
of what goes on as a pastor
00:12:41.52\00:12:47.45
and in our social society today.
00:12:47.48\00:12:50.05
You need that congenial
spirit when you come home.
00:12:50.08\00:12:52.29
We do.
00:12:52.32\00:12:53.38
And Ellen G. White
speaks about that consistently
00:12:53.41\00:12:55.41
Ellen G. White
the famous author.
00:12:55.44\00:12:58.51
That we've used in within,
00:12:58.54\00:12:59.94
the Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:12:59.97\00:13:01.34
however the Bible says that
a soft answer turns away wrath.
00:13:01.37\00:13:05.73
That's right.
00:13:05.76\00:13:06.83
And it's really, really
important and you know what--
00:13:06.86\00:13:08.52
What does it--
00:13:08.55\00:13:09.98
It says, don't start.
00:13:10.01\00:13:11.18
I'm not starting.
Can you say it to me?
00:13:11.21\00:13:13.58
A soft answer turns away
wrath. But it's a working wrath.
00:13:13.61\00:13:18.17
See you're
talking years of marriage
00:13:18.20\00:13:20.63
and newly weds but
it shouldn't matter.
00:13:20.66\00:13:22.85
We should work on our
communication all the time.
00:13:22.88\00:13:24.53
That's right.I'm
willing to work on mine's, Kim.
00:13:24.56\00:13:27.95
Oh, thank you, dear.
00:13:27.98\00:13:29.21
All right, you
know let's talk about
00:13:29.24\00:13:31.03
some of the
trappings of internet dating,
00:13:31.06\00:13:33.66
some of the concerns.
00:13:33.69\00:13:35.42
Well, you know that you
don't know what to expect,
00:13:35.45\00:13:37.34
you don't know
what you gonna get
00:13:37.37\00:13:38.77
and she took a risk
by inviting me there
00:13:38.80\00:13:41.20
but certainly there was a risk
for me to travel over there.
00:13:41.23\00:13:43.80
She could have looked at
me one time and said hey,
00:13:43.83\00:13:46.16
I don't want to be you
know involve with you at all
00:13:46.19\00:13:48.71
so I would have been
stuck in that country,
00:13:48.74\00:13:50.80
you know, but I would
say that there's a great risk
00:13:50.83\00:13:53.36
for the ladies out there
as well just to be cautious
00:13:53.39\00:13:55.80
and know what you get
00:13:55.83\00:13:56.92
because people don't always
present what they really are.
00:13:56.95\00:13:59.86
Yes, so you had
to be very careful.
00:13:59.89\00:14:01.42
Very careful. So how long--
00:14:01.45\00:14:03.73
how many times did
you go back to Chile?
00:14:03.76\00:14:05.23
Did Vivian come to-- did
she come to United States?
00:14:05.26\00:14:07.35
I did. Okay.
00:14:07.38\00:14:08.57
I did. Excellent.
00:14:08.60\00:14:09.63
I came at least four
times before we get married.
00:14:09.66\00:14:12.80
Four times? Yes.
00:14:12.83\00:14:14.56
That is amazing.
00:14:14.59\00:14:16.05
So she had an
opportunity to meet my family
00:14:16.08\00:14:18.76
and I went over there
several times as well.
00:14:18.79\00:14:20.99
How did the
family respond to her?
00:14:21.02\00:14:24.00
Oh, I think they
responded very positively.
00:14:24.03\00:14:25.86
You know they also
sensed her spirit as well.
00:14:25.89\00:14:27.58
All right.
00:14:27.61\00:14:28.64
They're open, you
know, to my travels
00:14:28.67\00:14:31.14
and my experiences
and they met Vivian
00:14:31.17\00:14:33.52
and fell in love with her so.
00:14:33.55\00:14:34.77
Well, who wouldn't, pastor?
00:14:34.80\00:14:36.45
Unless knowing you, you know.
00:14:36.48\00:14:38.66
Let me ask you this,
you know, how has you know
00:14:38.69\00:14:42.46
like Arthur
said in the beginning
00:14:42.49\00:14:43.92
multicultural marriages
00:14:43.95\00:14:45.42
because you first
wife was multicultural
00:14:45.45\00:14:46.80
she is on Dominican Republic.
00:14:46.83\00:14:47.86
That's right.
00:14:47.89\00:14:48.92
So what do you think that,
00:14:48.95\00:14:50.38
you know, some
of the challenges--
00:14:50.41\00:14:51.59
are we facing any
different challenges
00:14:51.62\00:14:53.41
because Arthur and I
are both African-American.
00:14:53.44\00:14:55.42
What are the
challenges are there any Pastor,
00:14:55.45\00:14:57.19
that you see in the church?
00:14:57.22\00:14:58.32
I think they are the challenges
are probably the same.
00:14:58.35\00:15:01.06
You still to have
communication issues.
00:15:01.09\00:15:02.83
You still have
wherever geographical issues
00:15:02.86\00:15:07.55
but I think the geographical
issues can be greater
00:15:07.58\00:15:10.37
because of the distance.
00:15:10.40\00:15:11.60
But you have
language challenges as well.
00:15:11.63\00:15:14.28
-But I think we
do pretty well. Okay.
00:15:14.31\00:15:16.54
And your goal is to
learn and be fluent in Spanish?
00:15:16.57\00:15:18.40
That's right.
00:15:18.43\00:15:19.48
And you know I
have a patience spirit
00:15:19.51\00:15:20.93
you know so
00:15:20.96\00:15:22.75
if there's some times
there may be a language barrier
00:15:22.78\00:15:24.90
because of it
how we define words--
00:15:24.93\00:15:26.94
Right. You know
how we define words-
00:15:26.97\00:15:28.42
Interpretation of those words.
00:15:28.45\00:15:29.56
An interpretation of those words
00:15:29.59\00:15:30.76
and how we see our reality.
00:15:30.79\00:15:31.95
Right.
00:15:31.98\00:15:33.05
You know we just have to be
patience and we work together.
00:15:33.08\00:15:35.57
I saw that, we were
blessed to have Vivian to enter
00:15:35.60\00:15:38.38
before a family
life retreat for us.
00:15:38.41\00:15:40.81
And I made a statement
00:15:40.84\00:15:42.93
and I wasn't sure it
was your mother-in-law
00:15:42.96\00:15:44.44
or father-in-law
gave another turn
00:15:44.47\00:15:47.09
and she understood it
and she went keep going,
00:15:47.12\00:15:50.25
keep going and I want to say
publicly you really blessed us,
00:15:50.28\00:15:54.06
we gave you shout
out too, yes we did.
00:15:54.09\00:15:56.96
You know your sister-in-law said
00:15:56.99\00:15:59.74
let's not forget Vivian,
you know, Heather said that.
00:15:59.77\00:16:02.38
I said oh, we all shouted. Yeah.
00:16:02.41\00:16:04.32
But we realize your gifts
and your talents and we hope
00:16:04.35\00:16:07.26
that you would be with
us next year at the retreat.
00:16:07.29\00:16:09.47
Yeah, will be my pleasure.
We're looking forward to it.
00:16:09.50\00:16:11.04
You brought up something I
think is extremely important
00:16:11.07\00:16:13.88
when you were talking
about basically it's the same
00:16:13.91\00:16:19.36
as far as communication
with male or female
00:16:19.39\00:16:23.48
whether it's a
different culture or not.
00:16:23.51\00:16:26.67
You know, you still
dealing with a lot of feelings
00:16:26.70\00:16:29.27
and you grow to
recognize those differences.
00:16:29.30\00:16:32.36
Right.
00:16:32.39\00:16:33.42
So that was something that you--
00:16:33.45\00:16:35.15
did it take you a
certain amount of time
00:16:35.18\00:16:38.15
was it long time
involved, was it less time?
00:16:38.18\00:16:41.34
Well, I think you know a
person needs to be mature
00:16:41.37\00:16:44.60
to get in a situation
like that, to understand
00:16:44.63\00:16:46.63
that there are differences.
00:16:46.66\00:16:47.84
Its not fantasy
island, you know,
00:16:47.87\00:16:49.75
people might assume you know
00:16:49.78\00:16:51.12
oh, from somebody different
place you know it's great,
00:16:51.15\00:16:55.29
the reality is that
everybody has challenges
00:16:55.32\00:16:57.64
it's just how you manage them
00:16:57.67\00:16:59.07
and how you
approach those things
00:16:59.10\00:17:00.25
that makes all the
difference you know.
00:17:00.28\00:17:01.40
Right.
00:17:01.43\00:17:02.46
You know we have the
Spirit of God with us
00:17:02.49\00:17:03.71
and we have the spirit
of-- we want to stay together
00:17:03.74\00:17:06.27
and work through things
and the Lord has blessed us--
00:17:06.30\00:17:08.49
And-- So--
00:17:08.52\00:17:09.60
Please, they
want to stay together.
00:17:09.63\00:17:11.19
I agree--- Okay.
00:17:11.22\00:17:12.68
So okay, let's go
back to the first sighting,
00:17:12.71\00:17:15.98
you know.
00:17:16.01\00:17:17.27
It must have been when
you first saw the pastor
00:17:17.30\00:17:20.36
you said oh-- so how
did you respond to that?
00:17:20.39\00:17:24.14
You saw-- Did you embrace?
00:17:24.17\00:17:25.35
Did you all embrace when
you first saw each other?
00:17:25.38\00:17:26.70
One minute
that's not the question.
00:17:26.73\00:17:27.92
That's not the question? No, no.
00:17:27.95\00:17:29.00
What was the question?
00:17:29.03\00:17:30.06
I'm asking is,
was he a shock to you
00:17:30.09\00:17:33.49
that he was African-American?
00:17:33.52\00:17:35.51
But no, she has--
you know didn't pastor,
00:17:35.54\00:17:37.23
you send a video she saw--
00:17:37.26\00:17:38.33
I sent videos. Oh, okay.
00:17:38.36\00:17:39.55
Yes, I know, I had known.
00:17:39.58\00:17:40.75
He is African-American.
00:17:40.78\00:17:42.11
So it's nice
dealing with his culture
00:17:42.14\00:17:44.56
the way he was talking
how he interacted with you
00:17:44.59\00:17:47.86
was that
something different or what?
00:17:47.89\00:17:51.45
No, it was very nice
to talk right with him.
00:17:51.48\00:17:56.17
There were a couple of things
that I do think were cultural
00:17:56.20\00:17:58.80
and they were shocking to me.
00:17:58.83\00:18:01.19
Now we talk on those things
00:18:01.22\00:18:02.99
because I didn't understand
what he was talking about.
00:18:03.02\00:18:06.51
So we had to talk through in.
00:18:06.54\00:18:08.38
Can you give me
example of one thing
00:18:08.41\00:18:10.22
what was shocking
or cultural difference?
00:18:10.25\00:18:16.12
Well--
00:18:16.15\00:18:18.00
That might be too personal.
00:18:18.03\00:18:19.47
It's little personal? Yes.
00:18:19.50\00:18:21.65
Okay.
00:18:21.68\00:18:22.72
Well, you know, we didn't like
he said the language barrier,
00:18:22.75\00:18:26.00
the food barrier--
00:18:26.03\00:18:27.83
are you both
vegetarians or do you--
00:18:27.86\00:18:29.17
Yes.
00:18:29.20\00:18:30.46
You're a vegetarian? Yes.
00:18:30.49\00:18:31.70
But there is a different.
00:18:31.73\00:18:32.90
He said that the same
challenges for every couple.
00:18:32.93\00:18:37.69
I do think they are the same
regarding to him as a person,
00:18:37.72\00:18:41.86
I would say the same
00:18:41.89\00:18:42.96
but as a woman I do
feel the difference.
00:18:42.99\00:18:46.40
You know, I go to a different
church as worshipping style.
00:18:46.43\00:18:51.34
Wow, your worship
style is different.
00:18:51.37\00:18:52.82
Yes, it's different.
00:18:52.85\00:18:53.99
So I did encounter a
different environment,
00:18:54.02\00:18:57.49
but as far as it's him
00:18:57.52\00:18:59.40
I do think it would be the same
challenge with the Latin guy.
00:18:59.43\00:19:03.20
With a Latin guy.
We got to remember.
00:19:03.23\00:19:05.81
He's a Latin guy. Latin guy.
00:19:05.84\00:19:07.15
Is he? Vivian, I love you.
00:19:07.18\00:19:10.75
You're so, you
know, you know what,
00:19:10.78\00:19:12.24
when I first you she
was with a baby quite,
00:19:12.27\00:19:15.41
shy but she didn't know us.
00:19:15.44\00:19:16.60
But she's gotten to know
me, I don't know about you.
00:19:16.63\00:19:18.85
But you know get
to know us but you--
00:19:18.88\00:19:20.86
Because you are
not shy and quite.
00:19:20.89\00:19:22.13
I'm not shy so we can--
00:19:22.16\00:19:23.53
You're pretty boisterous.
00:19:23.56\00:19:24.59
Am I? Yeah.
00:19:24.62\00:19:25.65
Well, you know, Ms.
Vivian, first lady you know
00:19:25.68\00:19:28.89
and we refer to first
lady who is pastor's wives
00:19:28.92\00:19:31.83
as the first lady of the church.
00:19:31.86\00:19:33.55
But I recognize
that you are strong
00:19:33.58\00:19:35.71
and you are vivacious
00:19:35.74\00:19:36.77
and you're not only
beautiful but you are--
00:19:36.80\00:19:38.92
A quiet strength.
00:19:38.95\00:19:40.16
She a quiet strength?
00:19:40.19\00:19:41.31
Quiet strength. You
just say it a quiet strength.
00:19:41.34\00:19:42.74
You a quiet strength?
That's another difference.
00:19:42.77\00:19:44.74
I don't feel like first lady,
00:19:44.77\00:19:46.78
because that's one different
that this cultural I guess
00:19:46.81\00:19:50.14
because I'm all
behind scenes you know
00:19:50.17\00:19:53.16
I like to serve very much
but I don't feel like leaving--
00:19:53.19\00:19:57.22
You don't want anyone
to put you in the pedestal?
00:19:57.25\00:19:58.46
No, no, no, not at all.
I really like be behind.
00:19:58.49\00:20:02.83
Behind the scenes. Yes.
00:20:02.86\00:20:04.14
Do you think that,
that may be different
00:20:04.17\00:20:06.27
with African-American women?
00:20:06.30\00:20:08.21
They like
being-- Such as yourself?
00:20:08.24\00:20:10.26
We like, we do.
00:20:10.29\00:20:11.79
That is a
cultural difference we do.
00:20:11.82\00:20:14.25
You like to be upfront?
00:20:14.28\00:20:15.60
Well, I'm narcissistic. Okay.
00:20:15.63\00:20:17.09
Narcissistic, the
behavior represents
00:20:17.12\00:20:18.69
or the terminology
person who is out front
00:20:18.72\00:20:21.99
and is not
afraid of be in public.
00:20:22.02\00:20:23.40
Pastor Willis,
you are narcissistic
00:20:23.43\00:20:24.96
you're not afraid of crowds.
00:20:24.99\00:20:26.03
Not at all.
00:20:26.06\00:20:27.09
Not at all. He loves the camera.
00:20:27.12\00:20:28.45
Amen. He loves people.
00:20:28.48\00:20:29.98
Do you think that
maybe if you acquired
00:20:30.01\00:20:31.90
some help to get you through
that narcissistic personality?
00:20:31.93\00:20:34.85
No, I was born with it.
I am who I am, all right.
00:20:34.88\00:20:39.20
Well, listen this is
good, but then you know
00:20:39.23\00:20:41.56
what they say opposites attract.
00:20:41.59\00:20:42.66
Yes.
00:20:42.69\00:20:43.75
You know Arthur is a quite storm
00:20:43.78\00:20:46.03
he is narcissistic
but he is a quite one.
00:20:46.06\00:20:48.81
You see you are
quite. You think so?
00:20:48.84\00:20:50.47
I know so all right.
00:20:50.50\00:20:52.22
But Vivian, do you like America?
00:20:52.25\00:20:55.57
I do. It's different.
00:20:55.60\00:20:57.08
It's different.
It's very different.
00:20:57.11\00:20:58.15
Very different.
00:20:58.18\00:20:59.26
Yes, I--
00:20:59.29\00:21:00.35
it has a lot of
comfort abilities
00:21:00.38\00:21:02.51
like when you drive through it--
00:21:02.54\00:21:05.27
You like that?
00:21:05.30\00:21:07.33
Yes.
00:21:07.36\00:21:09.00
It's the drive through window--
00:21:09.03\00:21:10.62
We take that for granted.
We take that for granted.
00:21:10.65\00:21:13.51
And the heat is way
better than in our countries.
00:21:13.54\00:21:17.58
The heat system you know?
00:21:17.61\00:21:19.14
Like in Chile
winter time the whole time
00:21:19.17\00:21:21.16
I have my nails and lips purple.
00:21:21.19\00:21:24.25
Purple?
00:21:24.28\00:21:25.33
Yes, and then I had to heat
my house with wood you know.
00:21:25.36\00:21:28.97
And in the
night I put more wood.
00:21:29.00\00:21:31.85
So every thing here is more
comfortable, it's less natural.
00:21:31.88\00:21:37.69
Less relationship with
nature it's more over there.
00:21:37.72\00:21:41.19
So that's something I
miss less relationships still.
00:21:41.22\00:21:44.28
You know lot of
us were girls scouts,
00:21:44.31\00:21:46.14
boys scouts, pathfinders,
00:21:46.17\00:21:47.83
we lived in the woods you know
00:21:47.86\00:21:49.33
so if we had to go back to that,
00:21:49.36\00:21:51.10
he will be all
right, isn't that right?
00:21:51.13\00:21:52.64
Because he is a camper and
then being in the military.
00:21:52.67\00:21:54.86
Well, Kim, I can't see you
living in a wood with nothing--
00:21:54.89\00:21:59.95
I enjoy, I'm like--
00:21:59.98\00:22:02.13
I enjoy my furnace,
00:22:02.16\00:22:03.25
I enjoy being able to
drive through those are nice--
00:22:03.28\00:22:05.65
The heat runs me
out of there, Kim.
00:22:05.68\00:22:07.35
I know, I have
to keep the heat up
00:22:07.38\00:22:08.82
even the summer
time, I told you know.
00:22:08.85\00:22:11.42
I do, I don't know, be
like this is like a child
00:22:11.45\00:22:13.05
I don't know
00:22:13.08\00:22:14.33
but I do agree with you
00:22:14.36\00:22:16.47
that it is important
that in a relationship
00:22:16.50\00:22:18.99
you are able to recognize
that you are different.
00:22:19.02\00:22:21.98
Yeah.
00:22:22.01\00:22:23.22
But your vision is the same.
00:22:23.25\00:22:24.34
Right, the important key that
we find out was the commonality
00:22:24.37\00:22:27.85
and that was
very, very important
00:22:27.88\00:22:30.30
building our relationship.
00:22:30.33\00:22:31.68
To find those things
that we had in common
00:22:31.71\00:22:33.59
and that's what we build upon.
00:22:33.62\00:22:35.25
Pastor, do you go
back on internet and say,
00:22:35.28\00:22:36.50
she is mine.
00:22:36.53\00:22:37.71
Ah, no I never did.
00:22:37.74\00:22:40.19
You know, what, you
wanted to stay humble. right?
00:22:40.22\00:22:42.52
I think I had to
take her profile down so--
00:22:42.55\00:22:44.29
Oh, that was it. That was it.
00:22:44.32\00:22:46.02
Take that profile down.
Now where was the wedding?
00:22:46.05\00:22:49.03
It was in Chicago.
00:22:49.06\00:22:50.09
It was in
Chicago. Oh, that's nice.
00:22:50.12\00:22:53.00
And also after it
when was Amanda born?
00:22:53.03\00:22:56.44
She was born one year later.
00:22:56.47\00:23:00.50
A year later. A
little less than one year.
00:23:00.53\00:23:02.22
So, pastor, you were
ready to really marriage,
00:23:02.25\00:23:04.41
to have a child let's do this.
00:23:04.44\00:23:06.19
Well, I think
that is a part of the,
00:23:06.22\00:23:07.51
you know, be fruitful multiple.
00:23:07.54\00:23:09.42
That what it is.
00:23:09.45\00:23:10.59
We were just
following the biblical example.
00:23:10.62\00:23:12.48
Yeah, what it is all
right. But remember, one more.
00:23:12.51\00:23:15.49
How did your military background
00:23:15.52\00:23:21.47
sort of blend in
with your marriage?
00:23:21.50\00:23:23.87
Well, I think it had a big part
to play in terms of my ability
00:23:23.90\00:23:26.98
and desire to travel
and have that exposure.
00:23:27.01\00:23:29.67
I wasn't afraid
to go to Chile as--
00:23:29.70\00:23:32.01
as supposed to going
to Iraq or anywhere else.
00:23:32.04\00:23:34.46
So it didn't matter it was just
00:23:34.49\00:23:35.83
get on the
plane and going there.
00:23:35.86\00:23:37.53
You know, so for
some people it a huge gap
00:23:37.56\00:23:41.70
you know to make that leap.
00:23:41.73\00:23:43.85
But it wasn't for me. Wow.
00:23:43.88\00:23:45.99
That was something you know.
00:23:46.02\00:23:47.17
So you just
made the arrangements
00:23:47.20\00:23:49.25
and found a flight?
00:23:49.28\00:23:50.81
That's right.
00:23:50.84\00:23:51.94
You see at the end of the day
00:23:51.97\00:23:53.07
my idea was if
it doesn't work out,
00:23:53.10\00:23:56.06
I just had a
tremendous experience
00:23:56.09\00:23:57.65
that I don't have
many friends that could say
00:23:57.68\00:23:59.29
that they had
the same experience.
00:23:59.32\00:24:00.60
That's true. -I got a
chance to go to Chile.
00:24:00.63\00:24:02.70
I would've
probably never gone to Chile
00:24:02.73\00:24:04.84
if it wasn't for Vivian.
00:24:04.87\00:24:06.45
Wow. That's fantastic.
00:24:06.48\00:24:07.65
Yeah, it was amazing. Yes.
00:24:07.68\00:24:09.16
She took me up to
the Andes Mountains.
00:24:09.19\00:24:11.01
Wow. Oh, no.
00:24:11.04\00:24:12.19
Yes, she did. She did.
00:24:12.22\00:24:13.68
I know that was breathtaking.
00:24:13.71\00:24:15.14
She was an adventurer lady
00:24:15.17\00:24:16.26
so and I fell in love
with that part of her too.
00:24:16.29\00:24:18.99
An adventurer again is a program
00:24:19.02\00:24:22.21
in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:24:22.24\00:24:24.22
that service before you reach
a level of the pathfinders.
00:24:24.25\00:24:26.55
Right.
00:24:26.58\00:24:27.62
So again out in the wilderness,
doing a lot of camping,
00:24:27.65\00:24:30.81
being able to learn what
plants we can and cannot eat.
00:24:30.84\00:24:33.18
But that's little truth--
00:24:33.21\00:24:34.44
That's what you-- grew up.
00:24:34.47\00:24:36.66
What he just said has to say
00:24:36.69\00:24:38.94
that she is
adventurous as an adult.
00:24:38.97\00:24:41.06
Outgoing. Oh, I see.
00:24:41.09\00:24:43.39
We have to go to the mountains
00:24:43.42\00:24:45.15
that's gonna be
really suffering.
00:24:45.18\00:24:46.64
I'm looking forward to it.
00:24:46.67\00:24:47.74
You can't wear high heels
going up to the mountains.
00:24:47.77\00:24:50.32
You know well, that's okay.
00:24:50.35\00:24:51.98
I just have to go in--
I'll go barefoot if I have to,
00:24:52.01\00:24:56.06
all right.
00:24:56.09\00:24:57.50
Yea of little faith, all right.
00:24:57.53\00:24:59.80
I just want to know
one more thing you know
00:24:59.83\00:25:02.27
that may lead to
something else, can Vivian cook?
00:25:02.30\00:25:06.50
Oh, she is a great
cook. She is a great cook.
00:25:06.53\00:25:08.71
That's good.
00:25:08.74\00:25:09.79
And you know here's
something really unique
00:25:09.82\00:25:12.15
because you know she has
her cultural aspects her skills,
00:25:12.18\00:25:16.73
cultural skills
in terms of the beans
00:25:16.76\00:25:19.10
and the rice and that.
00:25:19.13\00:25:20.46
But she also wanted
to learn what I liked.
00:25:20.49\00:25:23.58
And so she started
that progress in making
00:25:23.61\00:25:27.72
foods that I liked and
she is good on both sides.
00:25:27.75\00:25:30.83
He taught me how
to make stir fry,
00:25:30.86\00:25:34.65
and couple of makings.
00:25:34.68\00:25:37.22
She is pretty
good at lasagna too.
00:25:37.25\00:25:38.74
Lasagna. Scrambled eggs.
00:25:38.77\00:25:40.12
Scrambled eggs. You didn't
have scramble eggs in Chile?
00:25:40.15\00:25:43.31
Not that way.
00:25:43.34\00:25:44.72
Not that way. Okay.
The way he likes it.
00:25:44.75\00:25:46.93
You put little cheese in it,
00:25:46.96\00:25:47.99
little pepper,
onions and tomatoes--
00:25:48.02\00:25:50.07
Spinach.
00:25:50.10\00:25:51.21
Oh, spinach. I
use that for omelets.
00:25:51.24\00:25:52.43
Mushrooms. A whole meal pack.
00:25:52.46\00:25:56.00
Well, listen we
will be right back
00:25:56.03\00:25:58.35
with Pastor Philip Willis
00:25:58.38\00:25:59.58
and his beautiful wife
Vivian right after this.
00:25:59.61\00:26:02.29
Pastor, one of the things
that I was thinking about,
00:26:13.77\00:26:16.24
how do you relate to
her friends and how the--
00:26:16.27\00:26:20.53
do you right to
the pastor's friends?
00:26:20.56\00:26:25.06
Well, I have met
some of his friends
00:26:25.09\00:26:27.35
and there is no problem.
00:26:27.38\00:26:30.13
His friends are my friends.
00:26:30.16\00:26:31.42
All right. Yes.
00:26:31.45\00:26:33.18
It's the same way to
her friends I got to know.
00:26:33.21\00:26:36.27
I started to know
some of her friends,
00:26:36.30\00:26:37.82
get to meet some of her
friends down from Chile.
00:26:37.85\00:26:40.10
And a few of them came
up for the wedding as well.
00:26:40.13\00:26:42.23
So we get along pretty well.
00:26:42.26\00:26:43.59
Yes. Yes.
00:26:43.62\00:26:44.75
Everybody support of them?
00:26:44.78\00:26:46.06
Yes. Everyone support.
00:26:46.09\00:26:47.48
You know, I'm looking forward
00:26:47.51\00:26:48.72
to be in Facebook
friends with you, Vivian.
00:26:48.75\00:26:50.22
Okay.
00:26:50.25\00:26:51.29
On Facebook with pastor
and I love the pictures,
00:26:51.32\00:26:53.81
I love--
00:26:53.84\00:26:54.91
that's how I
found about the baby.
00:26:54.94\00:26:56.09
The both announcement
I saw pictures of Amanda.
00:26:56.12\00:26:58.70
I cannot tell you
00:26:58.73\00:26:59.77
how much it is meant to
have you both here today
00:26:59.80\00:27:02.05
and the challenges that
we all face in our marriages
00:27:02.08\00:27:05.17
and in our relationships
and our friendships.
00:27:05.20\00:27:07.34
Don't lose side of who you are,
00:27:07.37\00:27:08.96
as Vivian is not
lost side of who she is.
00:27:08.99\00:27:11.39
She brings a lot
to this relationship
00:27:11.42\00:27:13.21
and so does pastor.
00:27:13.24\00:27:14.85
Being able to recognize
00:27:14.88\00:27:15.95
who he is in his
cultural differences
00:27:15.98\00:27:18.39
but they have the same vision
00:27:18.42\00:27:20.13
and they want to
work together and be one.
00:27:20.16\00:27:22.78
That's excellent point.
00:27:22.81\00:27:24.89
And most importantly I think
00:27:24.92\00:27:26.81
when you recognize that
you want to stay on a same team
00:27:26.84\00:27:29.83
that you bring God into
it, prayer is really important.
00:27:29.86\00:27:33.68
When you run into any
trials and tribulations
00:27:33.71\00:27:35.77
this gonna be really, really
important that you stress,
00:27:35.80\00:27:39.73
your prayer life
00:27:39.76\00:27:41.01
and that you continue to
move forward no matter what.
00:27:41.04\00:27:44.07
Well, listen, we
want to thank you both.
00:27:44.10\00:27:45.50
Will you come back
again? Yes, thank you.
00:27:45.54\00:27:47.16
Sure, thank you for having us.
00:27:47.19\00:27:48.43
It's a privilege. Excellent.
00:27:48.46\00:27:50.14
We want to thank you, our
viewers because without you
00:27:50.17\00:27:52.93
we wouldn't know
how to make it work.
00:27:52.96\00:27:54.70
I'm Dr. Kim Logan-Nowlin.
00:27:54.73\00:27:56.04
And I'm Arthur Nowlin.
00:27:56.07\00:27:57.10
Keep making it work.
00:27:57.13\00:27:58.42