Participants: Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000089B
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00:01 We're back.
00:02 We are talking about some really big issues 00:05 that are destroying marriages today. 00:07 We've already talked about pornography and an affair. 00:12 Lets talks today about addictions. 00:15 We're talking here primarily about 00:16 drug and alcoholic addiction, 00:18 the different types of addictions. 00:19 But those are the main things that we want to discuss today. 00:22 Absolutely. 00:23 This again, 00:25 is a detrimental effect upon marriages because actually, 00:28 alcoholics divorce at four times the rate of those 00:30 who are not alcoholics. 00:32 Wow. 00:33 And there seems to be direct co-relation between 00:35 the amount of alcohol you consume 00:37 and your likelihood of divorce. 00:39 Even if you're not an alcoholic, 00:42 if you just drink socially, 00:43 there's a direct correlation between 00:45 alcohol consumed and likelihood of divorce. 00:47 It is not interesting, 00:49 even when it's not an alcoholic? 00:50 Yeah, the more you drink 00:51 the more likely you are to be divorced. 00:53 Well, and I think we talk about actual addiction, 00:56 we're talking about a situation where it's hard to be 00:59 in a relationship with that person. 01:01 Marriage to an alcoholic or an addict 01:03 is not a truly a marriage. 01:04 No, its not. 01:06 And the reason 01:07 that I would say that is because 01:09 this person will make choices that will not make any sense. 01:12 They will choice the drug of the choice 01:14 over the marriage every time, 01:16 they'll choose it over their children, 01:18 over their Job, 01:20 over thing that makes absolutely no sense. 01:23 But that's because this has such a strong hold on them, 01:26 you know. 01:28 And so it's very hard to be in a relationship with a person 01:30 whose judgment is so impaired. 01:33 The drug of choice becomes more important than the marriage. 01:36 It becomes more important than their own health, 01:38 it becomes more important than their relationship to God. 01:40 It is the most important thing in the world to them. 01:43 And you can't be in a marriage with someone 01:45 who has that kind of priority set. 01:47 It's very difficult. 01:49 And that doesn't mean that the addict 01:51 or the alcoholic is a bad person. 01:53 No, not at all. 01:54 It doesn't mean that they are unloved by God, 01:56 it doesn't mean any of that. 01:57 What does it mean is, 01:59 it shows how strong a hold this can help on an individual. 02:02 That's right. 02:03 You know, Satan gets hold of people 02:05 in a lot of different ways, 02:06 this happens to be the way 02:08 that he is able to grasp that particular person. 02:11 And there is a lot of hard ache 02:13 they goes through this experience, 02:15 not just for the person married to the addict or the alcoholic, 02:19 but to the children 02:20 and for the addict and the alcoholic themselves. 02:22 Themselves. Yeah, that is destructive. 02:24 Now, there are some stages 02:26 that usually takes place in the life of a family, 02:28 someone whose married to an alcoholic or an addict. 02:31 Let me share what these. 02:32 The first stage is usually denial. 02:33 Oh, he just drink too much at the Christmas party, 02:35 he won't do it again. 02:36 But when he or she does again and again 02:38 then there are attempts to eliminate the problem, 02:41 usually by begging, by threatening, by cajoling. 02:44 But when those fail, 02:46 and you see that problem persist 02:47 then the family usually falls into disorganization and chaos. 02:51 Children begin to act out, 02:53 the relationship itself starts to fall apart, there's this... 02:56 So the family is just a disaster at that point? 02:58 And absolute disaster. 03:00 Then there's a reorganization 03:01 in spite of the addiction or the alcoholism. 03:05 So the alcoholism still exists. 03:08 It still exists. 03:09 But they reorganize around it? 03:11 There's a reorganization, 03:12 but it's an unhealthy reorganization. 03:13 Okay. 03:15 Usually, around form of love we call co-dependency, 03:17 which is a rescuing and being rescued form, 03:20 its a very sick form of love, 03:22 but I've never worked with the spouse 03:25 of an addict of an alcoholic 03:27 who was not a co-dependent. 03:30 Never once. And I've done... 03:32 Is just the nature of the beast, isn't it? 03:33 I've done drug and alcohol rehab 03:35 in psychiatrist facilities as a Chaplin, 03:38 never once seen anyone married to an alcoholic or an addict 03:40 who was not co-dependent. 03:42 Well, you are trying to fix, 03:43 and you are we trying to rescue them, 03:44 you're trying to make it better, 03:46 and they want that, and they come back to it, 03:49 but then they self-destruct again. 03:51 Absolutely. 03:52 And then you're back, rescuing again. 03:54 Becomes an ugly recycled that repeats itself. 03:57 And then, you began to feel your worth by being rescued 04:00 and the person rescuing feels loving 04:03 because they are rescuing. 04:04 Because they are rescuing. They are rescuing. 04:06 But eventually, once you rescued 04:07 and you're nurturing this person is been rescued, 04:09 feels suffocated by it, 04:11 and so they sabotage the relationship again, 04:14 and spiral once again by using, 04:16 and again they are rescued over and over again. 04:18 It's an exhausting kind of thing. 04:20 It's exhausting; it's a sick way of loving. 04:22 And both people become sick through the process. 04:25 Then, eventually, when that no longer works and eventually, 04:29 even that sick reorganization no longer has an effect, 04:33 there's an attempt to escape. 04:35 The person married to the alcoholic or the addict 04:38 just got to get out. 04:39 And eventually, then there is family reorganization 04:42 usually without the alcoholic or the addict, 04:44 because the divorce will occur unless, 04:47 the alcoholic or the addict gets sober and clean 04:50 and then the family can reorganize around sobriety. 04:53 Yeah. 04:54 And that we would really hope for the people. 04:58 Now those are typical stages, you know, 05:01 the stages may be a little bit different 05:03 from one family to another 05:04 but that's pretty typical. 05:05 You can see that over and over again. 05:07 Yeah. 05:08 And you know, if indeed 05:10 you find yourself in this situation, 05:11 the first thing to do is to admit it. 05:13 That is the first step of every 12 Step program. 05:16 "I got a problem." 05:17 And 12 Step program has been around a long time, 05:19 they've had a lot of success. 05:20 But the very first thing is to say, 05:22 yes, this is going on. 05:23 Right. 05:25 Admit that it's happening, admit that you are the addict, 05:27 you are the alcoholic, and then get help, 05:30 be willing to get help. 05:31 There are lots of agencies they can help, you know, 05:33 Alcoholics Anonymous, Al-Anon/Alateen. 05:36 There is a Christian recovery program 05:38 called Celebrate Recovery, that many Churches conduct. 05:41 12 Step program also 05:43 for narcotics and Narcotics Anonymous (NA). 05:45 So it is another related to AAA. 05:48 Yeah. 05:49 And so but recovery I think talks about 05:50 all kinds of addiction, 05:52 so that's one, you know, that might be helpful, 05:54 you can find some times the local church is doing that. 05:57 AA and NA started out 05:59 as purely Christian programs 06:01 and they've been more secularized through the years, 06:03 they're still a valuable program and valuable aid. 06:07 But Celebrate Recovery is on a bashley Christian 06:10 and it is a very successful program. 06:12 And then refuse to keep the secretes, you know, 06:15 once you uncover those, 06:16 they don't have as much power over you. 06:19 You get in this unhealthy kind of situation 06:21 where everybody is trying to cover it up, 06:23 it's not been really happening. 06:24 Uncover those secrets, 06:26 let them out there and deal with them, 06:28 because they don't hold the power over you 06:30 when you uncover them. 06:32 You're not having to like word any word, 06:33 doesn't have any power. 06:35 It breaks the power 06:36 and it makes recovery a possibility. 06:38 And it helps you realize you are only one 06:40 that's ever experience this. 06:42 You'll find the many, many people 06:44 have come through it, they had the same problem. 06:46 Absolutely. 06:47 Again, the alcoholic, the addict, 06:49 this is not a bad person. 06:50 No. 06:51 This is a broken person. 06:53 Everyone we're talking about 06:54 with this big issues are broken people. 06:56 They are not terrible people, 06:57 these are the people for whom Christ died. 06:58 That's right. 07:00 People who loved by him. 07:01 And He is standing there, 07:02 waiting and willing to help with this. 07:04 So I don't think we say, all right, 07:06 go to a program and that your whole solution. 07:08 No. 07:09 You go to a program with God's help, 07:11 with him right there besides you, 07:13 walking through every moment with you. 07:15 And with all of the 12 Step program 07:17 there's this spiritual component 07:18 and that's how makes them successful. 07:20 That's why they succeed. 07:21 That's it, the spiritual compounded is key. 07:23 There's one more issue that we need to talk about, 07:26 and again, it's one of those that 07:28 no one likes to talk about. 07:30 And the churches especially 07:31 doesn't like to talk about this. 07:33 We hate to admit that it exists in the church. 07:35 Yeah, it's just shameful that it doesn't exist. 07:37 We hate to admit it but it does exist. 07:40 And this one is called Spousal Abuse. 07:42 Right. 07:43 We need to talk about abuse 07:44 because its going on in every segment of the society 07:48 and the church is no exceptions. 07:50 No exceptions. 07:51 We've heard a lot about it in the news 07:52 in the last couple of years, 07:54 really, with professional athletes 07:57 and things like that, 07:58 some of the stars in Hollywood that you hear of 08:00 that have Spousal Abuse situation. 08:02 And you know, isn't it nice 08:04 that the sporting organizations, 08:07 the professional organizations are now taking 08:10 very proactive steps regarding this 08:12 and saying, by the way, 08:13 if you're convicted of spousal abusive, 08:15 there are penalties from your work over this. 08:17 Yeah. 08:19 You know, may be the motivation for this 08:21 is public pressure and money. 08:23 And may be it's not just that they are good people doing this 08:27 but at least they are doing it. 08:29 And may be they are almost leading 08:33 the rest of the society at times in this. 08:35 We need to take this proactive stands 08:36 or even more so in the church. 08:38 We do. 08:40 And I think one of the things 08:41 that we need to do is to understand it. 08:42 Yeah. What is spousal abuse? 08:44 Well, it has such a wide range that sometimes 08:47 we don't acknowledge what's going on. 08:50 It starts on one end if we continuum, 08:53 down at this lower end of the continuum 08:56 it may be just cruel remarks, 08:59 it may be jokes that the spouse experience, 09:02 but then it continues on 09:03 and it goes to isolation 09:06 where you try to isolate that person 09:08 from family and friends, 09:10 you know, keep them in a box. 09:12 It goes to financial imprisonment 09:14 where they can't really get out of this situation 09:16 because they can't afford it, 09:17 they can't manage, they don't have any resources. 09:21 It goes on, 09:22 there's great emotional abuse with verbal abuse, 09:26 it can go then to the physical abuse. 09:29 When you get all the way, 09:30 and there are still many more steps, 09:31 when you get all the way to the other end, 09:33 it's actually homicide. 09:34 Homicide. 09:35 So when you realize that this, it's abuse all the way through, 09:40 we got to be able to acknowledge 09:42 and recognize that it's going on. 09:43 And no one wants to recognize that. 09:46 If you are abuser, 09:47 you don't want to be recognize it, 09:48 if you are the one being abused, 09:50 you don't want to recognize it, because if you are abusive, 09:52 you don't want to recognize that you are hurting 09:55 the people you love the most. 09:56 Yeah. 09:58 And if you are the victim, you don't want to admit 10:01 that you are some weak little victim, 10:03 as I've heard them call themselves, 10:04 "I can't take care of myself." 10:06 Well, that's exactly what one woman said me. 10:08 She says, "I'm not a some weak little thing 10:10 that can't take care of myself." 10:11 And yet, she showed every sign of abuse. 10:15 In her case, it wasn't physical abuse 10:16 so you couldn't see a black eyes or a bruise. 10:19 It was emotional abuse that was so bad 10:22 that it was stressing her entire life. 10:24 It's important to recognize 10:26 that abuse is not just about violence. 10:28 The key of the abuse is the power and control. 10:32 Any relationship that is based on power and control 10:35 rather than love and partnership 10:37 is by definition an abusive relationship. 10:40 And that's not just marriage relationship, it's friendship, 10:43 it's work relationship, church relationship, 10:47 entire congregation can be abusive. 10:49 Because, if they're based on power and control, 10:52 I'm going to control the minutiae of your life 10:55 and I'm going to enforce this 10:57 rather than just uplift Christ and say, 10:59 there's a better way to live, if I'm enforcing it, 11:01 if it is about power and control 11:03 it becomes abusive by nature. 11:05 Well, in a marriage relationship 11:07 there are some red flag statements 11:09 that you hear from time to time. 11:10 There are things like, well, if you'd behave better, 11:13 I wouldn't have to treat you this way. 11:16 And that's said over and over 11:18 and the sad thing is people start believing it. 11:21 They start to believe that must be true of me, 11:23 I'm causing this by my baby behavior. 11:27 Oh, I don't deserve anything better than this. 11:28 Yeah. 11:30 And you're told that you don't deserve anything better. 11:31 In fact, another of the red flag statement says, 11:35 "If I didn't keep you around, no one would ever want you. 11:38 You're just lucky that I even let you live here." 11:40 Right. 11:41 "If I got rid on you, you would be out on the street 11:44 because there is no one that would want you." 11:45 Right. 11:47 And it seems so outlandish and yet, people believe it. 11:52 The victim begins to believe that about themselves. 11:55 Right. 11:57 Those are the red flags. 11:58 And I think that if indeed you find yourself in this situation 12:02 and you're the one who is been victimize, 12:04 the first step is to admit it. 12:07 And like you said, 12:08 it seems like that would be easy to admit 12:10 and obvious, but it is not. 12:11 It's not. 12:12 You don't want to be seen as a victim 12:14 and don't want to be seen 12:15 if you are the abuser as abusing the people. 12:18 You, basically as the abuser lost 12:20 the power of compassion. 12:22 You lost the ability to have compassion on your spouse 12:25 or on another person. 12:26 Or even on yourselves. 12:27 Yes. 12:29 And an abuser, again, is not a bad person, 12:30 but this is a person who's lost touch with their core values. 12:34 And by losing that touch 12:37 and by losing the ability 12:38 to have compassion for themselves and others 12:40 they engage and behave 12:41 as they never thought possible for them to engage in. 12:43 And so the first step is to admit it, 12:45 the second step may be to get some help. 12:47 Get help. 12:48 Yeah, there is help available. 12:50 You know, they are hotlines that you can call. 12:54 You can Google and find... 12:55 A National hotline or local hot line. 12:57 Absolutely. 12:59 Be willing to do that, 13:00 it's very hard, it is very hard. 13:03 It's something that people, 13:04 they feel like they have failed 13:06 or they feel they are afraid. 13:07 Yeah. 13:09 You may need a safety plain if you are in a physical... 13:10 physically abusive situation. 13:12 Having the safety plan can be key. 13:13 And I think that there's also a work 13:15 that friends and churches can do here. 13:18 That's right. 13:19 And that is by helping people safe, 13:22 recognize when abuse takes place. 13:24 Open our eyes. 13:25 Open our eyes 13:26 and help develop safety plans for someone, 13:28 be a resource for them 13:30 so that they don't have-- 13:31 the bottom line is it's not God's plan 13:33 for you to live that way. 13:35 You are not a more spiritual person 13:36 because you allow someone to beat you up 13:38 or to degrade you, or to belittle you. 13:41 God has a better plan. 13:43 Because, this, the abuser has abrogated their marriage vows, 13:48 they have failed to keep those vows 13:50 and it's placed you and your children at risk. 13:52 We need to help. 13:53 Those are few of the big issues. 13:55 The key is let's deal with them 13:56 because you need to be madly in love with one another. |
Revised 2016-06-09