Participants: Alanzo Smith, June Smith
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000068
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00:30 Welcome to Marriage In God's Hands.
00:33 I'm Alanzo Smith. And my wife, June. 00:37 We're both licensed Marriage and Family Therapist 00:40 and Mental Health Counselors. 00:43 And we want to talk today about defiance. 00:47 It seems as if when historians come to document our age, 00:53 they're going to be forced to call it an age of defiance. 00:58 Unfortunately, it begins real early. 01:01 We don't just end of with defiant adults. 01:04 If we have children who are disrespectful 01:07 and who refuse to obey rules and/or follow instruction, 01:12 they're likely to grow up to be adults who will defy authority, 01:16 even God's authority. 01:18 The level of defiance these days is appalling. 01:22 We see it in the home, we see it in the school, 01:26 and we see it in society. 01:28 And the fact is, no one wins. 01:32 Let's talk about the home; defiance in the home and the 01:36 level of parental involvement. 01:40 Many times, we find that children are growing up 01:45 in homes where there's very little supervision. 01:48 Where parents leave parenting, pretty much, up to the child. 01:52 It's not unusual in some places, especially in large cities, 01:56 that parents work, and sometimes not just one but two jobs. 02:00 And believe it or not, children are left to either be raised 02:04 by the television or by a neighbor checking in 02:06 once in a while, etc. 02:08 So you have children, a large number of children, 02:11 who are growing up without adequate supervision. 02:14 And these kids just don't know how to respect rules, 02:18 to live within guidelines and limits. 02:21 And so they defy any authority that they perceive 02:25 to be an imposition. 02:27 I was flying on a flight across the Atlantic 02:31 and I was sitting in the window seat. 02:35 And to the aisle was a father, and the middle seat 02:39 was for his daughter. 02:40 She was somewhere between 4 to 5 years of age. 02:45 Anyway, the plane started taxiing out and the stewardess 02:48 came and said to the gentleman, "Could you please buckle your 02:51 daughter up in her seat because we're about to take off. " 02:54 So he lifted up his daughter and put her in the seat 02:58 and she yelled out and screamed, "I don't want to 03:00 sit in the seat. " 03:02 So he put her back in his lap. 03:05 Well the stewardess passed and said, "Sir, we are moving now. 03:09 You have to put the child in her seat. " 03:12 He attempted a second time. And believe me, it was worse. 03:16 The child was kicking and screaming. 03:18 So he again put her right back in his lap. 03:22 Well the stewardess passed and saw what was happening and said, 03:25 "Sir, you have to do that now. " 03:27 And the father looked at the stewardess and he said 03:30 something like this, "Would you please talk to her for me 03:35 because she won't listen to me?" 03:36 And the stewardess said to the girl, "Get out of your dad's lap 03:40 and sit in that seat now. " 03:42 And the little girl got up and sat right in the seat 03:45 without any question. 03:47 So obviously, she was not responding to 03:50 her father's authority. 03:52 And her father relinquished his power when he asked 03:55 the flight attendant to intervene. 03:58 Because what is going on in that child's mind now? 04:01 "Well I don't really have to listen to my father. " 04:04 She's saying, "My father is afraid of me. " 04:06 "My father is intimidated by me. " 04:08 We have to be careful of the subtle messages 04:12 we send to our children when they are very small. 04:15 Because later on in life it plays out when you really 04:17 want to talk to them and they're not listening. 04:19 You know, Alanzo, I think children are sometimes blamed. 04:22 But if a child was never taught what is appropriate, 04:25 the child won't know. 04:27 It seems to me that when children are socialized 04:30 around individuals who are poor role models, 04:33 they adopt certain behaviors. 04:35 And then the child sometimes even then gets celebrated. 04:37 You know, they do something real precocious and the adults 04:40 around them will celebrate it and will act as if, 04:43 "Wow, did you hear what my 2 year old said? 04:45 She's acting like a 20 year old. " 04:47 So now at two, they celebrate her. 04:49 She's reinforced that it's something that the 04:51 adults think is funny. 04:52 But then when the same child performs that behavior 04:56 at 15 or 20, the child gets punished. 05:00 It's no longer funny. 05:01 We have to go back to the Bible. 05:03 It says, "Train up a child in the way he should grow. 05:06 And when he's old, he will not depart from it. " 05:09 Parents, you have to understand. 05:11 You cannot love your child so much that you are afraid 05:15 to do the training. 05:16 The training that is not done during those golden tender years 05:20 will later on have negative effects and 05:24 negative repercussions. 05:25 So we're encouraging you, we're admonishing you. 05:28 Love has boundaries and love has structure 05:33 and love has limits. 05:35 And to quote one author, "Love must be tough. " 05:38 So you have to administer love with toughness in it. 05:43 The Bible also talks about honoring your parents; 05:46 honoring your mother and your father. 05:49 It is not cool to disrespect your parents. 05:52 In fact, it is unacceptable that a child would disrespect 05:56 their parent. 05:57 So I appeal to all children and young people 06:01 who might be watching this discussion, 06:04 that you know it is your God given obligation 06:07 to respect your parents in the Lord. 06:09 Because that's what He expects of you. 06:11 And have you noticed that the age is getting lower and lower 06:18 that parents are bringing them into counseling for help now. 06:22 We're not talking about 10 and 11 and 12 year olds now. 06:26 We're talking about 6, 5, or 4. 06:29 Parents are just throwing your hands up in the air and saying, 06:33 "I give up, I just cannot manage. 06:36 I just cannot handle it. " 06:37 And we're saying you have to start at an early age. 06:43 Not at 3 or 4. 06:44 If not, you're going to miss it. 06:46 It is necessary that we all take responsibility 06:51 for raising children. 06:52 But we must do it appropriately. 06:55 You know in some cultures, we use the term "spoiling a child," 07:00 simply meaning very little supervision, 07:02 we give into every demand, and the child seems 07:05 to have their way. 07:06 In counseling, we say the child is "parentified". 07:09 The child literally becomes the parent. 07:13 We're talking about defiance. 07:14 And we look at defiance in the home. 07:17 But it's not just the children who are defiant in the home. 07:22 Husbands are defiant, wives are defiant. 07:26 So how might a husband display defiance in the family? 07:33 And you wonder why is it that children get defiant when they 07:36 live around adults who behave inappropriately. 07:39 Now a husband could be defiant if he totally disregards 07:43 the rules of the home and acts as if he's a law unto himself; 07:47 he isn't accountable to his family 07:49 or especially to his wife. 07:51 And the child, obviously, will observe that. 07:54 "I am a man, I do what I want. 07:57 I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. 08:00 I go when I feel like, I come in when I please. 08:03 I don't have to explain to anyone because I'm the man. " 08:08 That's a defiant attitude and it has negative consequences 08:12 and negative repercussions. 08:15 And if someone has to be telling themselves that 08:17 they're the man, isn't there a problem there? 08:19 Well I've had several incidents where women call and they 08:23 would say, "Dr. Smith, I really have a problem in my marriage. 08:26 I know we need help. 08:28 I have asked my husband time and time again to come in 08:31 for counseling and he refuses because he says, 08:35 'What can they tell me that I don't know?' 08:37 Or, 'You have the problem, you go for help. '" 08:39 Or, "I don't need anybody to tell me what 08:41 to do about my problem, how to run my problem. " 08:44 That would be defiant. 08:47 But we also have it on the part of the wife. 08:49 She can be defiant too. 08:51 You know, it's like she could be disrespectful to her husband. 08:56 She could be the type of wife who feels that she earns her 08:59 own money and no one should tell her what to do, 09:03 she wants to do her own thing. 09:04 Defiance is manifested in that way as well. 09:09 Now what are some of the consequences? 09:11 What happens when all this rumbling and jumbling 09:14 is going on in the home? 09:16 Well you know, it's going to spill out in a very 09:18 negative way to the family. 09:20 What's going to happen is that you're going to find 09:23 a lot of conflict erupting, developing, in the family. 09:29 Because if the father is defiant or the wife is defiant or 09:34 if the children are defiant, may God help that home. 09:37 So there will be a lot of disrespect that is experienced 09:42 by each other. 09:43 The husband is going to feel disrespected, 09:45 the child feels disrespected. 09:48 In fact, I think on some level that the child becomes defiant 09:52 because they feel disrespected. 09:53 Their needs are not being met on some level 09:55 and so they think, "Well, I'll just not obey the rules. " 09:58 And this creates a certain amount of insecurity. 10:04 If you're living in a family environment where 10:09 the boundaries are blurred, the respect is not there, 10:13 and individuals are very defiant, then you find that 10:16 people don't find the level of security that they need 10:20 in a relationship. 10:21 And children... 10:23 If children are living with their parents and they have 10:25 defiant parents, the children are insecure. 10:29 And that leads to disharmony and disunity in the home. 10:33 And so the entire family breaks down. 10:36 And we could end up with a situation where there's a lot of 10:40 dysfunction; the children acting inappropriately, the father 10:43 acting inappropriately, the mother acting. 10:44 So the dynamics in that family are in total chaos. 10:48 You know, there are certain causative factors that 10:52 cause this kind of a breakdown and defiance within the family. 10:56 When there is no structure or the boundaries are not clear, 11:01 people become defiant, they run over each other, 11:05 and that creates havoc in the relationship. 11:07 So we're saying there needs to be very clear rules. 11:10 There needs to be very clear limits. 11:12 And each member in that family should know 11:15 what those are. 11:16 And sometimes, young people, the reason why you're so defiant 11:19 to your parents is because of your friends; peer pressure. 11:23 I know of a young man who his friends said to him, 11:26 "Oh you can't come because your father isn't going to let you. " 11:30 And he said, "No, I can come. " 11:31 You know, he's trying to show that he doesn't have to 11:34 listen to his parents. 11:35 So sometimes young people, that defiant attitude 11:38 that you're displaying, it is because you want to 11:41 prove to your friend that you are strong, you are tough, etc. 11:45 But you're hurting yourself. 11:46 And unfortunately, there's also social regression. 11:49 The society at large seems to accommodate defiance. 11:53 And so it's almost like, "Well, if I behave this way, 11:56 I won't be the odd ball out. 11:58 Because my neighbor's, everyone I know 12:00 seems to behave like that. " 12:02 And so the child thinks, this is norm. 12:04 You know June, as you said that, I just thought of a concept of 12:11 alliance and coalition. 12:13 Because that is one of the factors. 12:16 When one parent selects a child; one that they love, 12:22 one that is special, they think that is special to them, 12:25 and they form this bonding, it can cause defiance 12:31 in the behavior of the other child. 12:33 So that whatever the causative factors are, it is real. 12:38 Defiance is reality in the home. 12:41 And children suffer, society suffers, 12:44 the church suffers, the schools suffer. 12:47 And when we come back from our break, 12:49 we will talk about defiance in the school 12:53 and defiance in the home. 12:55 And that's a big one. 12:56 Because, you know, what's happening in the school 12:58 and in society at large, we need to spend some time. 13:02 So we want you to come back. 13:04 As a matter of fact, in our next session, 13:07 not only are we going to highlight these, 13:09 but we're going to show parents what to do. 13:12 And we're going to talk to you children and you young people 13:15 and we're going to help you to understand 13:17 how best to behave and to relate to an issue or to relate 13:22 to a problem that you're having. 13:24 I'm excited about the second half. 13:25 So we're saying defiance is never a good thing. 13:28 Never ever a good thing. Yea, that's right. 13:36 There are many How To books available 13:39 but there's one that's free and perfect for every couple. 13:42 "How You Can Build A Better Marriage" 13:44 Bible-based matrimonial advice is given in a light-hearted 13:48 easy to read manner for those contemplating marriage, 13:51 newlyweds, couples in their golden years, 13:54 and everyone in between. 13:56 Simply call or write for your free copy. 14:09 Welcome to Marriage In God's Hands. 14:13 We have been talking about defiance. 14:16 We have looked at defiance in the home 14:18 and now we're going to look at defiance in the school 14:22 and the society. 14:23 My wife, June, is with me. 14:26 June, talk to us about defiance in the school. 14:29 You have worked with the school system in trying to help 14:32 some of these defiant students. 14:34 What have you come upon and share it with us here. 14:37 It is such a sad thing to see teachers who are committed 14:42 to help children grow and learn and become good citizens 14:45 and certainly good people. 14:48 But their job is challenged because they have what 14:52 we consider defiant children. 14:54 As you rightly said, I work with several schools in 14:57 New York City and we try to help children adapt to understand 15:01 that they must obey rules and follow the instructions. 15:05 But it is a work in progress. 15:08 There's a high level of lack of respect for teachers these days. 15:14 I lift my hat off to all those of you who are 15:19 teachers out there because it's indeed a challenge. 15:22 I have taught school before a couple of years myself and 15:26 when I did, times have changed. 15:29 You know, I was talking to a 10 year old boy 15:32 and they had asked me to help him with whatever was 15:36 going on with him. 15:37 And he sat in my office and he looked at me and he said, 15:41 "Dr. Smith, you see me? 15:44 My teacher is afraid of me. " 15:47 So I said, "Why would your teacher be afraid of you?" 15:49 And he said, "Well, my teacher is afraid of me because 15:53 I told her that if she should talk to me in a way that 15:58 I don't like it, I will box her. " 16:01 So I wrinkled my brow and I said, "Box her?" 16:04 He said, "Yes, I told her clearly I will box her. 16:08 And I explained to her that if when I box her and 16:11 she doesn't like it and she goes home and she tells 16:14 her husband and he comes," this little 10 year old boy 16:17 said, "I will box him too. " 16:20 That's where we have reached now. 16:23 Now in his mind, he thought that was appropriate behavior. 16:27 And somewhere there, it is telling me that this child 16:31 has problems. 16:32 Now teachers, principles, and all school personnel 16:38 deal with this daily. 16:40 And yet, children are expected to learn, perform, and pass. 16:47 My appeal to parents is, if your child is considered defiant 16:52 and if your teacher is complaining and bringing 16:55 to your attention that this behavior is occurring, 16:58 that your duty and responsibility is to go 17:02 into the school and to investigate what is going on 17:05 and to get to the source, to the bottom of it. 17:07 If you take the position which many parents take, 17:11 which is to be defensive and to try to encourage the 17:15 child's behavior, then your child is going to be 17:18 worse off for it. 17:19 And the defiance is being played out in many areas. 17:24 We see children not doing their homework. 17:27 We see them doing a lot of talking in class and being the 17:33 class clown, cracking a joke so that the others laugh 17:36 and then they get serious. 17:38 We see children skipping or cutting classes or turning up 17:43 late for their class. 17:45 And it just seems to be getting worse and worse. 17:49 And here's what we need to say to our families listening, 17:54 that it did not start in the school. 17:58 Sometimes we blame the school environment that they're in. 18:02 Sometimes we blame their friends and sometimes even the teacher. 18:06 And to some extent, you might be right. 18:08 But I'm saying, parents, you have to go back 18:11 to the basic; the home. 18:12 Because as it says, "Except the Lord build the home, 18:16 they labor in vain that built it. " 18:18 And that's important. 18:19 You have to go back to the basic of setting up a firm structure 18:24 within the home so that the children will act better 18:29 when they're in this school environment. 18:31 Now I think it is important to understand that children 18:35 are not born defiant. 18:37 And that if a child comes to school and is acting out, 18:41 as we call it, and seems to be totally disrespectful and 18:45 disregarding all the school's rules or of the supervision 18:48 of the teachers and the adults in the building, 18:50 then something is wrong. 18:51 And usually it is something very wrong. 18:55 So you're saying it's a learned behavior? 18:57 I am saying that many times what is happening is that 19:00 the child is wounded. 19:01 And it is possible that this defiant child is merely reacting 19:06 to very sad encounters, or trauma even, 19:10 that they have experienced. 19:11 So a child, for example, who has experienced abuse, 19:15 whether it is physical or sexual abuse, 19:18 they have very little power over sometimes the perpetrator. 19:22 And so they usually manifest their upset this way; 19:26 by defying, by reacting in a very negative way and in a 19:31 defensive way in order to protect themselves. 19:34 So I'm hearing you saying that there are reasons, 19:38 whether it's biological, psychological, emotional, 19:42 whatever, but there are reasons at times 19:45 why some children are defiant. 19:48 For example, when a child doesn't feel special, 19:52 doesn't feel that they are special. 19:54 And that feeling could start with their parents. 19:56 And where we spoke about alliance and coalition, 19:59 because their sibling, the parents treat them in a 20:03 special way and give them more, and what have you, 20:06 and this child feels isolated and so they develop this 20:09 defiant nature, this defiant attitude. 20:11 So it's important for parents to treat all their children equally 20:16 and to treat all special no matter which one is doing 20:18 well in school, they all should be treated special. 20:22 Now children are basically wonderful individuals. 20:25 They are, I consider them adorable. 20:28 There is nothing else as joyful as being around 20:31 a group of happy children. 20:33 Their laughter just invigorates you. 20:35 But when a child is hurt, when a child is feeling 20:39 emotional pain, usually what happens is they get defiant, 20:44 they resent their experience. 20:47 And so because they can't find their own answers 20:50 and their own resolution to their difficulties, 20:53 they act out in the ways that we often see them. 20:56 So one of the things that tends to happen when that occurs 20:59 is that the child experiences what we consider deficiencies. 21:03 They have, whether it's emotional or even cognitive, 21:07 they just don't perform well because they're preoccupied 21:10 with their emotional pain. 21:12 And so they don't follow up on their assignments, 21:14 they don't pay attention because they simple can't concentrate. 21:17 A child that is being abused or being molested sexually 21:22 is in a very traumatic experience. 21:25 And often they have nowhere to go because they don't think they 21:29 can or that they will be believed. 21:31 And so they just act out their rage. 21:33 So parents should understand, based on what you're 21:37 telling us now, parents should understand that there are 21:41 times when there are unresolved issues with the child. 21:45 And the behavior that you're getting at home and the 21:50 behavior you're getting at school is not necessarily 21:53 that the child wants to be defiant but that there are 21:57 some other issues that are going on there, unresolved issues. 22:01 And maybe what the parent needs to do is to see 22:03 how they might get help for this child. 22:07 Therein lies the answer. 22:08 I think what tends to happen is that most times we 22:11 come down hard on the child and we punish the child. 22:16 Or label the child. 22:17 Or the child gets expelled from school when the child is 22:20 really crying out for help. 22:22 That's how I perceive a defiant child; as a cry for help. 22:25 Because again children are usually lovely, wonderful, 22:29 happy, joyous people. 22:31 So when they are traumatized and they think that this is 22:35 going to be their life forever, then they act in very 22:38 disorganized ways. 22:41 Poor role models play an important part, 22:46 even though it's a negative one, in a child's defiance. 22:50 Because sometimes children see something and they don't like 22:55 what they see. 22:56 Parents may think that their child doesn't know 23:00 and may be doing something in secret. 23:03 And that child could discover it. 23:05 And because of that, the child is acting out. 23:08 They want to tell the other parent but they're afraid to, 23:12 maybe of the consequences, whatever is going on. 23:15 And so they don't. 23:16 But dealing with this, bottling it up inside, 23:19 keeping it can manifest itself in other defiant behavior. 23:24 Realistically, while all this is true, there's some children 23:29 who are just pert. 23:31 They just did not get the right instruction, the right limits, 23:36 the right boundaries were not established. 23:38 And so the child never learned what is appropriate and 23:40 what is acceptable. 23:41 And so they just get by with doing everything 23:44 that they want on demand. 23:46 Do you think that some parents today are kind of afraid 23:52 of their children, afraid to correct them? 23:57 Is it an Eli syndrome? 23:59 I think that some of that is true, but I think the family 24:01 itself, the family form and structure has been so eroded. 24:05 You know, the original nuclear family, it very rarely exists. 24:09 So we have all different kinds of family forms existing. 24:12 And what tends to happen is because of these dynamics 24:15 that are occurring in our families parents are sometimes 24:18 very guarded about how they administer punishment 24:21 or set discipline. 24:22 Because they think; one, the child is already hurting 24:25 because of the divorce that occurred or because of the 24:27 problems in the relationship. 24:28 So they just allow most of the behavior that could 24:32 be considered dysfunctional to go by. 24:35 So if someone is listening to us, and I know you are, 24:38 and you might find that you have a defiant child 24:41 or a defiant home, and so you might be asking this question, 24:45 "Well, what can we do? 24:47 My child is defiant, what can we do? 24:50 Where do we start, where do we go from here?" 24:53 Our first message would be, start early. 24:56 And a mother might be pregnant at this moment. 25:01 We're saying to that mother, start early. 25:04 Do not wait until you see the problem to try to get help. 25:07 Try to start very early. 25:11 You know, we often say that everyone, before they 25:15 learn to drive or can drive, they must get a license. 25:18 But yet so many people just have children and they're not 25:21 capable of parenting and appropriately 25:24 training their child. 25:25 And so unfortunately, many children are brought into homes 25:28 where there isn't adequate supervision. 25:30 So yes, parents, if you do have children that you're 25:34 responsible for, you really do need to start early 25:37 and to make sure they're guided. 25:38 Let me make sure I'm hearing you clearly. 25:40 They must learn to drive first before they get a license. 25:44 Right. Okay. 25:46 And then they go drive. 25:49 So parents must do some training before they can expect 25:54 to have good children. 25:55 You can't just want good children and you 25:57 don't do the training. 25:59 That's so important. 26:00 But don't you think also that if there's a problem, 26:05 because sometimes genuinely there's a problem, 26:07 if there's a problem then they should genuinely 26:09 seek to get help? 26:10 They should. 26:11 But I think that when you think about parenting, 26:13 you also have to put it into perspective of the society. 26:15 Because I think we also have so many breakdowns in our 26:19 social structure that it spills over into our homes. 26:22 Look what's happening in society. 26:24 If you have problems with the home, it's spills over 26:26 into the church and it spills over into the school 26:30 and then into the society at large. 26:32 And look what's happening in the society; 26:34 the drugs, the alcohol. 26:35 And all of these are coming way back from the home. 26:39 Defiance is never ever a good thing. 26:42 If it starts in the home, try your best to do something 26:46 to quell it, to put a check mark on it. 26:49 Defiance in the school is also dangerous to the growth 26:53 and development of the child. 26:55 Because what's going to happen? It spills out into the society. 26:58 In short, what's we're saying; 27:00 defiance is never ever a good thing. 27:03 Do something about it. 27:04 The Bible speaks of a king, Nebuchadnezzar to be exact, 27:08 who was very defiant. 27:10 And his grandson, Belshazzar, was the same. 27:13 As a matter of fact, Belshazzar gave the order to bring 27:16 in those golden vessels. 27:17 And he drank from them, which he knew he should not have. 27:21 And as a result of his defiance, God visited him in His wrath 27:25 and he lost his kingdom. 27:26 We must learn a lesson from Belshazzar. 27:29 That is to say, do not be defiant. 27:31 Do not be defiant to your parents, 27:33 do not be defiant to your spouse, 27:35 do not be defiant to the society. 27:37 And most of all, do not be defiant to your God. 27:41 Families can grow and families can be strengthened, 27:44 but each of need to be cooperative. 27:46 We need to work together, love each other, 27:49 and care for each other. 27:51 May God bless you and your family 27:52 as you grow stronger and stronger. 27:56 Remember, marriage is forever, by God's grace. |
Revised 2014-12-17