Participants: Willie Oliver, Elaine Oliver
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000064
|
00:30 Welcome to Marriage In God's Hands.
00:32 I'm Willie Oliver, Director of Family Ministries 00:34 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church in North America. 00:37 I'm Elaine Oliver, Willie's partner in ministry 00:39 and a Marriage and Family Consultant 00:41 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church in North America. 00:44 We're delighted you can join us today. 00:47 God's plan for marriage is that it be joyful, 00:51 warm, compassionate, and organized. 00:55 Today we want to speak with you on a topic we've titled 00:59 "Leadership in Marriage. " 01:02 The truth of the matter is, Willie, is that many marriages 01:04 are not experiencing this joy, the compassion, the warmth 01:08 that you spoke about. 01:10 And I think a lot of the issues that many couples are 01:13 dealing with is, perhaps, unmet expectations, 01:16 confusion as to our roles in marriage. 01:20 And perhaps we're not doing it God's way. 01:24 And God is very clear in the Bible about His plan 01:27 for marriage and our roles in marriage. 01:31 In the book of Proverbs 17:22, the word of God says: 01:45 A joyful heart... 01:46 It is obvious that God wants us to be joyful. 01:50 As His people, He wants us to be happy, He wants us to be joyful, 01:54 He wants us to rejoice. 01:56 Because when people are joyful, they're happy. 01:59 And when they're happy, they're healthy. 02:01 And when they're healthy, they project an image of God 02:04 that God wants represented to the world. 02:08 Well, let's take a look then at what this plan is, 02:12 and what exactly is God talking about, and what are these roles 02:15 that are going to help us experience this joy in marriage. 02:19 What does it look like? 02:21 So Ellen White has this to say in The Adventist Home 02:24 about leadership in marriage. 03:08 So, Ellen White here is talking about roles 03:11 and what is the role of the father and the mother. 03:14 Specifically in this passage, she's speaking about 03:16 the role of the father. 03:18 And one of the highlights of this text, of this passage 03:23 is that it says, "The husband and father is the 03:26 head of the home. " 03:28 Well what does that mean? 03:29 What does it mean to be the head of the home? 03:32 Does it mean to be boss? 03:34 Does it mean to call the shots? 03:36 Does it mean to have the last word? 03:38 Exactly what does it mean? 03:40 Well, it also says when we look at the passage that 03:46 the wife is expecting to have love and sympathy 03:49 from her husband. 03:51 Love and sympathy. 03:52 And help with raising the children. 03:56 So, sometimes in our society, in different cultures 04:01 around the world, there are notions that are mores 04:06 of that particular society. 04:08 And in many cultures around the world as we've traveled, 04:11 we see that children are relegated to women. 04:17 And women are the ones who have the oversight 04:20 of what happens to the children. 04:21 And yet, we see here that the servant of God is saying 04:25 that fathers should help their wives to raise the children. 04:29 Why? The children need the influence of a man. 04:33 God intended it that way and He made it so. 04:36 What's really interesting is that she goes on to say, 04:39 even though she's saying that fathers should help 04:42 in the training of their children, she makes it clear 04:45 that fathers are equally responsible 04:48 for the training of the children. 04:50 So it's not just the mom's responsibility, and we know 04:53 just by virtue of biology that often times the initial training 04:59 of the children falls on the mom. 05:01 Perhaps because as moms, sometimes we take that 05:06 leadership role in the rearing of our children. 05:09 But this is saying, this passage is saying that fathers, too, 05:14 are to have a part. 05:15 So I think that's really good for women and mom's 05:19 to understand as well, that we need to be sure that we allow 05:24 fathers to be involved in the training of our children. 05:28 I like to underscore as we continue, the whole notion of 05:32 the husband providing love and sympathy for his wife. 05:36 And the reason I think this is important is because 05:39 many times in marriage, relationships are rough. 05:42 You know, they're a little crude. 05:44 And instead of providing the kind of support that 05:47 their wives need, men think that all they need to do is 05:50 go to work, make some money, and give money to their wives to 05:55 pay bills, and watch TV and have a cool drink and that's 05:58 all they need to do. 06:00 But it's very clear, it's very clear according to this 06:03 directive from the spirit of prophecy that God expects 06:07 for men to bring love and sympathy. 06:11 By that it means that we are paying attention 06:13 to what's happening to our spouse, 06:15 that we care about what's happening to our spouse. 06:18 That we are compassionate and that we're supportive 06:21 in all the aspects of our family life. 06:24 So in essence then, being the head of the home is not so much 06:29 talking about bossing around, about domineering. 06:33 It's not about who's in charge, per se, but it's about 06:38 fathers and husbands understanding that they are 06:41 to be controlled by the love of God, that they are to fear God. 06:45 That they are suppose to understand God, first of all, 06:50 and convey that love to their wives, to their children. 06:54 Well, what's very important to underscore is that if fathers 06:58 are going to be the kinds of leaders that they need to be 07:01 in their homes, in their families, 07:03 that they need to know God for themselves. 07:05 That if they're going to expose their kids to certain influences 07:08 they need to know how injurious those influences might be 07:12 and choose the right influences to share with their children. 07:15 Because they do have some responsibility here. 07:19 I see this whole notion of what we're talking about today, 07:22 not so much as husbands being in charge, 07:25 as much as husbands giving leadership. 07:27 God calls men to be leaders in their homes, 07:30 to be priests in their homes, to offer guidance, 07:34 to offer love, to offer affection, to offer support. 07:37 And it's much more than just saying, "The buck stops here 07:41 and what I say is what goes. " 07:43 But reflecting the image of God. 07:47 You know, I've heard so many women say that 07:52 they're disappointed that their husbands are not the leaders 07:55 of the home, because they're not leading out in family worship. 07:59 And when we look at this passage we see that it's so much deeper. 08:04 When we read what the word of God has to say in Ephesians 5 08:08 it's so much deeper than just leading out in family worship. 08:12 And I think that we need to be clear about that. 08:15 That it's about loving and nurturing and providing warmth. 08:19 More than just, "Ok, I'm going to call the songs and worship 08:24 or I'm going to call for worship. " 08:25 Also, as we look at this whole issue of leadership, 08:30 we have to talk about the subject of submission. 08:34 And that's a pretty difficult word in contemporary times. 08:38 It's very hard, especially for women to handle 08:41 this word "submission". 08:42 Let's see what the word of God has to say in Ephesians 5:22-24. 09:09 So, we're talking about wives being able to submit to their 09:13 husbands as to the Lord. 09:14 And as I've said earlier, this is a pretty difficult word. 09:17 And I think that if we really study and understand God 09:22 and how egalitarian He is... 09:25 That's a big word, Elaine. 09:26 It is, He's fair. 09:28 You know, when He talks about wives submitting 09:32 to their husbands, He's also talking to husbands and 09:35 saying that husbands should love their wives 09:37 as Christ loved the church. 09:39 So this is a pretty heavy thing that He's asking husbands to do. 09:45 What did Christ do? 09:46 Christ laid down His life for the church. 09:48 What I like is the fact that husbands are head 09:52 of the home or head of the wife as Christ is head of the church. 09:56 So we do have a model as husbands, as men, 09:59 that if we're going to, in fact, take our roles in leadership 10:02 in the family seriously, what we're doing 10:05 is that we're being Christ like, we're being like the Lord. 10:07 Absolutely, so then it makes it a little easier than for 10:12 a wife, for me, to submit to my husband 10:17 if my husband is Christ like. 10:20 And we're submitting to our husbands as we 10:23 submit to the Lord. 10:25 Ellen White has another passage that is found in 10:29 The Adventist Home and page 116, and it says: 11:22 So entire submission here, Elaine, it's saying 11:23 that should be made only to Jesus Christ. 11:25 That while God is asking women to submit to their husbands, 11:28 entire complete submission is only to God. 11:32 Because He is the only one who's holy. 11:33 And because we, as husbands, are imperfect. 11:36 We have to be very careful that the submission is in the context 11:40 of the husband being in Christ. 11:42 And understanding that God is not asking us wives 11:48 to merge their individuality into their husbands. 11:51 And husbands should not expect that of their wives. 11:54 So as we talk about submitting, then this submission 11:58 is really to God. 12:01 And if our husbands are God like, 12:04 then we have a better understanding 12:06 of what submission is. 12:07 Yea, I think it's a mistake to think about the whole issue of 12:11 submission as blind devotion. 12:14 As whole-hearted devotion, blindly suspending all of her 12:20 reasoning resources. 12:24 That women are to submit to their husbands only as their 12:28 husbands are clear, are devoted to the teachings of Christ 12:33 and of being like Christ. 12:36 Because if you're not like Christ, well no women 12:39 should be submitted to you. 12:40 Well, I think as the text illuminates, as we look at 12:46 what the text is saying, and as we talk more about 12:49 what the spirit of prophecy is saying, it makes it clear 12:53 that the submission that God is talking about is very different 12:58 than the way we perceive submission in secular terms. 13:03 Indeed, and in fact, this submission ought to be in 13:07 the context of a relationship, of a loving relationship, 13:11 of a supportive relationship, of one where's their mutual 13:14 caring and mutual forbearance. 13:15 One where they truly want to give honor and glory to God. 13:20 And so, as we look at this topic, 13:22 and we're going to be talking some more about it. 13:24 But right now, we're going to go to break. 13:26 So stick around, stay with us and we will be right back. 13:40 There are many "How To" books available 13:42 but there's one that's free and perfect for every couple. 13:45 "How You Can Build A Better Marriage" 13:47 Bible-based, matrimonial advice is given in a light-hearted, 13:51 easy to read manner for those contemplating marriage, 13:54 newlyweds, couples in their golden years, 13:57 and everyone in between. Call or write for your copy. 14:14 Welcome back to our topic on leadership in marriage. 14:17 We've been having a pretty interesting discussion 14:21 on leadership, on submission. 14:24 And we wanted to go a little further into what the 14:27 spirit of prophecy has to say. 14:29 In Adventist Home, Ellen White says this. 15:17 So what I'm seeing in this passage is that when men require 15:21 complete subjection, submission, subjection of their wives to 15:26 themselves, that they're doing so contrary to what 15:29 scripture is requiring. 15:31 When it's speaking about submission, full submission 15:35 in everything, that everything is as to the Lord. 15:39 One of the things that we need to be mindful of 15:42 as men, as human beings, is that because we're human 15:47 we are not perfect. 15:48 And because we're not perfect, there is a tendency 15:51 to go overboard, to over step our boundaries, 15:56 and to try to annex something that belongs only to God. 16:01 The truth of the matter is, we are under 16:04 the sovereignty of God. 16:06 We are under the rulership of God, both of us 16:08 as husbands and wives. 16:10 When God brings us together, He brings us as one. 16:13 He wants us to be one, one in spirit, 16:16 one in direction, one in purpose, 16:18 leading our family to the heavenly kingdom. 16:21 Not only that, God wants for us in our families to 16:25 reflect His image and to lead people to Him 16:29 because of the love and the joy that we have with one another. 16:33 So to have an individual, your spouse, your wife, 16:37 to be subject to you in everything, 16:39 it sounds a little harsh. 16:41 And basically what the servant of the Lord is saying 16:45 is that this is not exactly what God is saying. 16:47 What He's saying is, He's giving us a model of unity. 16:51 He's giving us a model of understanding 16:54 how the leadership is to be done. 16:56 It's a leadership, it's not rulership. 16:59 It's leadership. 17:00 It's not being boss, it's being a leader. 17:03 Well, and she uses some pretty strong words where she says 17:06 when we interpret it in that way, when we interpret it 17:09 that it means to hold someone subject to you, 17:12 when you interpret it in a way that it is rulership, 17:15 that it is bossing, we're actually doing violence 17:18 to the marriage institution. 17:20 Those are some pretty strong words. 17:22 And I think that she was just so way ahead of her time 17:26 when she wrote these words such a long time ago, 17:30 and they're so relevant to us today in our relationships. 17:34 One of the things that I think that we need to be very 17:36 careful of is that we don't allow our traditions 17:39 and our cultural mores to transcend the word of God. 17:45 Because so often we say, "Well, that's the way it's been done 17:48 in our culture. " 17:49 Well, what is God's culture? 17:51 That's what I like, you know. 17:53 We travel around the world and we do workshops 17:56 in different places and, invariably, someone will ask, 17:59 "Well, how do you do it in America?" 18:00 And our response usually is, "Well, how we do it in America 18:03 is not the most important thing. " 18:05 Because lots of people do it in different ways in America 18:08 and it's not going so well in most places. 18:11 What we want to do is what the word of God says. 18:13 We want to live our lives in marriage, in relationships, 18:17 based on God's word. 18:18 And so as we look at God's word, as we allow it to lead us, 18:22 as we allow it to inform our negotiating of marital roles 18:29 in that relationship, we have to go beyond just what we learned 18:33 in our culture's growing up. 18:35 In most cultures around the world, and we have a tendency 18:38 of highlighting certain cultures and saying 18:41 that men rule with an iron fist, well in almost every culture 18:44 in the world, men tend to just over step their boundaries 18:48 and just think that they're more than what 18:50 God has asked them to do. 18:51 It is important that if we're going to be people of God, 18:54 that we do it God's way. 18:56 What God is saying is that we should love one another. 18:58 We should have sympathy for each other. 19:00 We should build each other up. 19:03 So if I love my wife as I love myself, it means that I 19:08 would never take a hammer and hit my fingers 19:11 or hurt myself. 19:12 Because it hurts. 19:14 So when you hurt, I hurt. 19:16 And what I want to be sure of is that whatever I say, 19:20 whatever I do, is not going to cause you any harm. 19:23 But it's going to affirm you, it's going to let you know 19:28 that I care about you, it's going to let you know 19:30 and communicate to you that we are one, 19:33 that we are an "us", that we belong to each other 19:37 and want to give honor and glory to God. 19:40 So if I were to broaden the definition of submission then, 19:43 we're broadening it to say that we, as husbands and wives, 19:48 are to love and respect our spouses. 19:54 And if we are looking out for the best interest of the other, 19:58 then we will experience the joy in marriage 20:01 that God intends for us to experience. 20:03 And there won't be as much confusion as to our roles 20:07 in marriage because once we're living under God's way, 20:12 then it becomes a little bit more clear how we decipher 20:16 the simple things as to who's going to 20:18 change the baby's diaper, who's going to take out the garbage. 20:22 You know, those actually become trivial when we get a clearer 20:26 understanding of what God is saying about leadership, 20:29 about headship, about submission in the Bible. 20:32 I think that it's very important that we get to the place 20:36 where we learn to operationalize the text, the biblical text. 20:40 How do we live our lives each day under 20:42 the shadow of the text or under the light 20:45 of the text, if you will? 20:46 Many times in many cultures, we feel that women 20:51 have to take care of the inside and the men 20:54 take care of the outside. 20:55 And it all depends on who has more talent. 20:57 While it's important that we, and we believe strongly 21:02 that whoever eats needs to know how to cook. 21:04 You know, if you know how to eat you should know how to cook. 21:07 If you wear clothes, you should know how to wash them and 21:10 how to iron them. 21:11 And mind you, we may alternate depending on who has the time. 21:17 I remember in our early marriage, whoever got home first 21:22 at the end of the day would make dinner. 21:25 And it wasn't a big deal for us. 21:27 I mean, I loved you, I wanted to make sure we had a good meal 21:30 and if I was there before you got there, I made the meal. 21:33 And if you were there before I got there, you made the meal. 21:36 and we both enjoyed what we had to offer to our relationship. 21:40 So when we look at marriage as a unit, as a whole, 21:43 we recognize that what we're trying to do is to build 21:46 something together. 21:48 When we are building together and we are one, 21:50 it's not about preeminence. 21:52 It's about giving leadership and finding joy and happiness 21:57 and warmth and support and affirmation. 22:00 Because those virtues, those values help us to be 22:05 what God wants us to be. 22:07 And we need to do away with the power plays 22:11 because it's not about jockeying for power. 22:13 It's about empowering one another. 22:15 If we want to have great marriages, then we need to look 22:19 at ways in which we can empower one another. 22:22 So again, you know, you used cooking as an example. 22:25 There are many homes where wives love to cook. 22:29 Actually, we have friends where the husband loves to cook 22:32 and he does all the cooking. 22:34 So depending on what your gifts are, don't be afraid 22:38 to bring that gift to the table because there's some societal 22:43 notion that says, "If I do the cooking, I'm a weak man. " 22:47 Or, "If I do the cooking, I'm a disempowered woman. " 22:51 We need to put aside the secular notions, these worldly notions, 22:57 not allow them to infiltrate our marriages. 23:00 Because God is very clear, and God's plan if for us to have 23:05 great marriages. 23:06 God's plan is for us to have unity in our marriages. 23:09 And so what matters here then is that everything that we do in 23:13 marriage, be to build each other up so that we have the 23:17 kind of family that can represent Jesus Christ. 23:20 After all, that's what God wants. 23:21 And whether we cook or clean, whether we work and whoever 23:26 gets a job in these days with the economy being what it is. 23:29 Whoever can hang on to a job is what we are going to need 23:33 because we're going to have to pay rent, we're going to 23:35 have to pay mortgage, we're going to buy food, and 23:38 get these kids to church school. 23:40 Well, there's so much wonderful counsel in The Adventist Home. 23:45 Ellen White has more to say on this topic. 24:38 So what God is saying then is that if the husband is not 24:41 following the ways of the Lord, he certainly, most certainly, 24:46 is not as Christ is to the church. 24:50 And has no right to give that kind of direction because 24:54 to give direction, he must be directed by the spirit of God. 24:58 Correct, and just to further illuminate that, if husbands are 25:04 thinking that they are suppose to be in control of their wives 25:08 and they are not submitting to God, then of course, they 25:13 would have a misunderstanding of what the text is saying. 25:17 So what the text is saying is that, or the passage, 25:20 is that men need to be subject to God. 25:22 They need to be intimate with God. 25:25 They need to be under the rulership of God 25:28 so that they can give the kind of leadership 25:31 God expects of them in the family. 25:34 If I'm not under the rulership of God, if I've not accepted the 25:37 spirit of God in my own life and I'm not living that out each day 25:41 that's going to be pretty difficult. 25:43 So, I think it's clear that what God intends for us 25:48 as husbands and wives, and specifically we're speaking here 25:51 about husbands, and you know, she goes on to talk about 25:55 husbands should not be rough or egotistical or harsh 25:59 in the home. 26:00 I think that we should also add to that, that wives also 26:07 need to learn how to be kind and loving and gentle 26:12 and respectful of their husbands. 26:13 Again, we talk about that mutuality in the relationship. 26:17 Because we started out by saying that God wants us to 26:21 experience joy and warmth and compassion 26:25 in the marriage relationship. 26:27 Because when we have joy in the marriage, again, and there's 26:31 warmth and there's compassion, there is joy and there's a way 26:34 to give honor and glory to God and reflect the image of God 26:38 to the world, which we've been called to do 26:40 as Christian families. 26:41 Well, here's another text, 1 Peter 3:7. 27:03 This is pretty awesome you know, and it's kind of scary too. 27:06 And basically it's saying, if you don't treat your wife right, 27:08 God's not going to listen to you. 27:10 If you don't do what God expects of a Godly man to do 27:14 in your family, God's not going to listen to you. 27:16 I don't know about you, but I certainly want God, 27:19 I want God to listen to me and I want to know that when 27:21 I take my petitions to Him, that He's going to answer my prayer. 27:26 You know, this is hard stuff. 27:28 But there's a promise of success. 27:30 Philippians 4:13, "I can do all things through Christ 27:35 who give me strength. " 27:37 If we trust God, we read His word, 27:39 we're under His rulership, our families will be just fine. 27:43 God bless you. |
Revised 2014-12-17