Participants: Willie and Wilma Lee
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000031
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00:30 Welcome to Marriage in God's Hands.
00:33 I'm Willie Lee, your host, and our co-host for today is Wilma. 00:38 Wilma Lee. Welcome, and today we're going to talk about 00:43 the marriage dialogue. Welcome, and we're excited 00:47 to have you with us. Of course, we're excited. 00:49 And we hope that you and your spouse are ready to join us 00:53 today. And as we begin, let's go to God in prayer 00:57 and ask Him for His help in our message for today. 01:03 Dear Lord, we are grateful to know that as our Father 01:07 you have already prepared for this day and for our benefit. 01:13 And we pray that you will enter into our dialogue 01:17 so that we'll hear the dialogue of heaven and will know 01:21 that You are with us in our growth toward being like Christ. 01:26 We are thankful that you have given us the promise of the 01:29 Holy Spirit never to leave us alone and to give us 01:33 a Comforter. We rejoice in that promise 01:36 and we thank you in the lovely name of Jesus, 01:39 Amen. Amen. 01:42 It is our custom to dialogue 01:46 because it's something that we 01:47 have been practicing and doing 01:49 for quite a while as a couple. 01:51 And today we are ready to share some things about dialogue 01:56 and what dialogue is all about and the benefit of it. 01:58 And what God has to say about our conversation 02:03 and communication with each other as a couple. 02:07 We make us think that we should 02:09 practice, and don't people just 02:12 talk to each other? Don't couples just talk to each other? 02:15 I'm sure they do, and that's probably not what we are 02:20 really talking about. We are talking about the fact 02:22 that there needs to be more intention in how we talk 02:25 to each other because things can escalate and develop 02:29 into uncomfortable and painful expressions one to another 02:34 if we get into heated arguments or anger takes over. 02:37 We need to be careful to make sure that we can hear each other 02:40 and feel what's coming from one another and be able to converse. 02:46 Because God says in Ephesians 4, and I am reading from the 02:49 New Living Translation, that we ought to be careful about 02:53 how we talk. It says: "Don't sin by letting anger gain 02:57 control over you. Don't let the sun go down while you are still 03:01 angry for anger gives a mighty foothold to the devil. " 03:05 And then it says in verse 29: 03:07 "Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you 03:12 say be good and helpful so that your words will be an 03:16 encouragement to those who hear them. " 03:20 A lot of times our words to each other when we are feeling very 03:24 rough or very hurtful about something that has been done 03:29 or said, sometimes our language does not always come across 03:33 in a way where it's an encouragement. 03:35 But at home you can say anything you want to the people 03:38 you live with because they understand... and so 03:42 you don't really have to be careful about your words. 03:45 Well I think we found out something different, didn't we? 03:47 We certainly did! We found out that at home 03:51 especially... We put on our best behavior a lot of times 03:54 when we are away from each other but we let down our guard 03:57 and we drop any pretense when we are at home, and we just 04:02 let it out... and we end up hurting each other. 04:04 It's not a very encouraging environment. 04:07 And I don't know if you have experienced that in your home 04:09 but in most homes that we have dealt with couples... 04:12 they are really concerned about the kind of conversation 04:15 that they have. So we want to talk about that today. 04:19 Because even in Proverbs the 15th chapter and verse 1 04:23 we are told that we ought to be careful about how 04:28 we talk because we need to make sure that we use soft answers 04:33 to turn away wrath and anger. 04:35 And we can appreciate that because we have learned 04:39 that there is a better way. Well, you know, I think 04:42 that often times in our homes it's like saving the good china 04:47 for company and the good things for company. 04:51 And we do that with the good words and the kind words. 04:54 We only bring those out for company, 04:57 and we forget that those that are near and dear to us 05:00 need to have those fine things brought out and used every day. 05:04 Even when we don't feel near and dear? 05:08 ESPECIALLY when we don't feel near and dear. Exactly! 05:12 We have to remember that God created us in His image, 05:16 so we have to restore that image in our communication as well. 05:21 And that's what we're here to talk about today. 05:24 We're going to get into some of those elements of communication, 05:27 some of those things that we ought to be more careful about 05:31 and intentional about so that our speech and our language 05:36 that we use will help to provide 05:41 an ease of conflict 05:44 and not so much pain and discomfort 05:48 when we are trying to discuss things that are hurting us. 05:51 Well, maybe we ought to begin with dialogue - 05:53 all right, let's do that - 05:54 Because dialogue implies that there are two people involved. 05:58 Ahhh, yes. 06:01 Sometimes we don't talk like the other person has anything 06:05 to say or anything to share. But, yes, dialogue does mean 06:08 that it has to be two people in conversation with each other. 06:12 So that means one person can't go on... and on... 06:16 and on... and on... because you know what happens? 06:20 The other person just kind of clicks off and goes to all the 06:23 pretty places in their head. 06:25 Well, that might be in some temperaments. Of course, 06:29 they may not go to pretty... they may interrupt. 06:31 They may immediately respond in a way that says 06:36 I'm not hearing that. I don't care what you're going to say 06:39 from now on because what you just said was more important 06:43 to me than anything you can say afterwards, 06:45 and I don't like what you say. 06:47 So... But there's a way to control that flow. 06:50 There's a way to bring a measure where there is some equality 06:55 and equity involved in our conversation in that we each 07:00 have a turn, we each have an opportunity to express, 07:02 we each have an opportunity to hear and to be heard. 07:06 So those are very important things, and we want you to 07:10 understand some of them. 07:11 So maybe we need to talk about what happens when you 07:14 communicate effectively. Ah, so effective communication 07:19 is what we're talking about today. 07:21 And I think that's important because that's what God is 07:23 saying. He wants the effect to be that we leave our 07:27 conversations encouraged. That we are not angry so that 07:32 we are allowing the devil to come in and to work our 07:36 temperaments in such a way that we lose control 07:39 and allow sin to take place. Anger is an emotion 07:42 that can be expressed, but it needs to be expressed in a way 07:46 that reflects the image of God. 07:48 Well, let's just talk about the things that happen - right - 07:52 when we communicate. Let's do that. 07:54 People think that being a great 07:56 communicator means that you are able to use words. 08:00 All right. But what I have learned is that words are only 08:04 7% of communication. 08:07 Ah, that's not a whole lot, is it? 08:09 No. If I were having a piece of pie and you offered me 08:13 pie and I only got 7%, I don't think I'd be real pleased. 08:18 So out of 100% of being effective at communicating, 08:22 and to only use words and not realize that there are 08:25 other components, means that we are falling way short 08:30 of being an effective communicator in our 08:33 relationship. And that's what we want to work on. Right. 08:35 And then if you add tone of voice to words, OK, 08:39 you only get... How much do you think? 08:45 Well, I would guess that tone of voice would mean a whole lot 08:48 because sometimes tone does determine whether or not 08:53 I'm on alert or whether I'm lulled to sleep. 08:56 Well, what do you think the percentage would be? 08:58 Well, since I know the percentage, I'm going to 09:01 go ahead and share it. OK! It's going to be something like 09:04 about maybe 36%, somewhere around that. All right. 09:09 36% effectiveness if you use good tone intonation. 09:15 So that when you are angry you hit an angry tone. 09:17 When you're sad, there's a sad tone. 09:19 When you are trying to say something important, 09:22 you elevate the tone. 09:23 And that puts some meaning 09:25 to the words. All right. 09:27 Because tone does... so... 09:28 when you add that up, it only 09:30 comes to what? Less than half! 09:32 Less than half: 45%. 09:34 45% when you are using words and intonation. 09:38 That means there is still something missing from having 09:42 effective communication. So, when you have less than 09:46 half and you want to be 09:48 an effective communicator, 09:50 what do you need? 09:52 Well, let's talk about some of those things. 09:54 I think we are talking about the area of non-verbals: 09:58 those things that take place when you are talking. 10:01 Because some of you are listening to our tone of voice 10:05 right now. You are hearing our words, 10:08 but there is another element. 10:10 You are looking at our expressions. 10:12 You see expressions on our faces. You see body language. 10:16 We are turned toward each other. You see gestures: the use of 10:21 the hands. You see eye contact. Umm hmm. 10:25 Those are things that you don't have to say a word 10:27 but can communicate using those. 10:30 I guess, body position. True. 10:33 I can't turn my back on you right now... 10:35 but I could do this... Oh, my! 10:38 That means that you are closed. 10:41 That means that you are not very happy with what you are hearing. 10:45 True. Is that true? No, of course not. 10:50 So, but it does express that. 10:52 If you don't mean it, then don't do it, right? 10:55 Please. So those are some of the things, 10:58 and we are not going to go through all of them today. 11:00 But we have to learn that these parts of, 11:04 of I guess, effective communication 11:07 - umm hmm - all add up to 55%. 11:11 So a person can actually watch your non-verbals 11:16 and determine far more than listening to your words 11:20 or your intonation of voice. 11:22 And the interesting thing about non-verbals is that 11:26 if they contradict what you are saying, 11:29 people believe the non-verbals. 11:31 Ahhh. And you know why that is? 11:33 Because you can't control your non-verbals. 11:36 That's right. Non-verbals come out of who you are 11:40 deep inside. They're actually an autonomic 11:45 response of our system. And our brain makes our body 11:51 do certain things that we don't even think about. 11:55 We don't even plan it... but they happen. 11:57 I remember one time my wife told me that I was sighing 12:03 every time certain people were talking. 12:06 Whenever that person talked that I would sigh deeply. 12:10 Loudly, loudly... and loudly. 12:12 I didn't even realize I was doing it! 12:14 But that was my response - yes - to that person 12:18 and the way that they were communicating. Yes. 12:21 And I didn't want to give myself away but I was 12:25 giving myself away because I wasn't stopping to think. 12:29 Fortunately, that person didn't read non-verbals. 12:33 Well, I had to think about what I was feeling about that person 12:37 as well because it was coming through in a non-verbal way. 12:40 And it happens with us. So these are some of the things 12:43 we are going to talk about, and we want you to realize 12:46 that as we talk about these things that we are going to 12:48 apply them to communication between husbands and wives. 12:54 Spousal conversations sometimes have all these elements in them, 12:59 and they take on a greater meaning than we think. 13:03 So, we want you to be prepared. So if that other person 13:08 in your spousal relationship is not there, 13:11 tell them to come to watch and to hear and to understand 13:17 what we are sharing. Because it takes two people 13:19 to have couple dialogue. And after you are sitting down 13:24 comfortably, we'll be right back and, with Wilma, we'll continue 13:28 to talk about effective communication. 13:39 There are many how-to books available, but there's one 13:42 that's free and perfect for every couple: 13:44 How You Can Build A Better Marriage. 13:47 Bible-based matrimonial advice is given in a light-hearted, 13:51 easy-to-read manner for those contemplating marriage, 13:54 newlyweds, couples in their golden years, 13:57 and everyone in between. Simply call or write for your 14:00 free copy of this amazing little 14:02 booklet - a handy little tool 14:03 to help build a better marriage. 14:16 Welcome back to Marriage in God's Hands. 14:19 We've been talking about 14:21 the marriage dialogue 14:23 and, as we have been talking about effective communication, 14:28 we have talked about what the Bible has to say about that. 14:31 But we are also talking about the elements or the components 14:34 of effective communication. And just to review briefly, 14:37 we have been labeling some of those as verbal, 14:42 non-verbal - um hmm. Verbal includes tone of voice 14:47 as well as words. Um-hmm. And they all go to make up 14:51 when you put it together with non-verbal, what we call 14:55 effective communication... being 100% effective 14:57 in your communication. But the one thing we haven't said 15:01 is how we can communicate effectively, sometimes more 15:07 effectively, by just using non-verbals and what it... 15:10 what it really says about us when we are being effective 15:14 with non-verbals. Let's talk about that for just a moment 15:18 before we go on. Because it is possible 15:22 as a person in the couple dialogue, 15:28 that the person who is not talking can be a very effective 15:32 communicator with non-verbals. 15:35 That's true. And that means that 15:37 you are listening attentively 15:40 without adding anything to the conversation. 15:44 That's right. And sometimes, especially in the couple 15:47 dialogue, one thing that we hadn't mentioned, 15:50 even though we talked about the eye contact and the 15:53 body position. We talked about gestures, facial expressions, 15:57 and so on. But one thing we didn't talk about was touch. 16:01 And sometimes touch says a lot too that's non-verbal 16:05 when you're a couple and talking. And the person who's 16:09 listening and touching, with good eye contact, 16:13 and with all of the correct body positioning, expresses 16:18 something. What is that that you express to me when you are 16:22 listening to me right now with all of those non-verbals? 16:25 That you are important to me. That I care about you. 16:28 And that I want to know what you're feeling. 16:31 All right. And that makes it very effective and 16:34 you might want to do that and look at that in your own 16:38 relationship when you are in conversation and talking about 16:42 something that is meaningful. We're not talking about 16:45 communication on a level that is a little bit more trite... 16:49 not as deeply involved with one another. 16:53 But we're talking about expressing feelings... 16:57 not opinions about the world. 17:01 Not an idea of just talking to pass the time away 17:07 but communicating about what's going on inside of me 17:11 that I need to share with you so that you will know who I am 17:14 and what I'm feeling. So, what's the difference between sharing 17:19 opinions and feelings? Well, I think sharing opinions 17:23 and feelings... opinions are important because 17:25 they tell what we feel about the world. 17:29 But when I share my feelings, it shares who I really am 17:33 and what is going on inside of me - 17:37 not my expression about what's going on somewhere else. 17:41 And it's important in communicating to one another 17:44 that we as a couple, as a married couple, 17:48 that we actually are putting our fingers on how we're feeling 17:53 about each other and about the relationship that we have. 17:56 Well, when things are happening how do I know when I'm sharing 18:02 a feeling and not an opinion? 18:04 Well, you are going to have to tell me that because you must 18:07 express what's going on in you. 18:10 Well, if I say "I think, " um-hmm, 18:13 something's happening, is that an opinion or is that a feeling? 18:18 It sounds like an opinion to me. 18:19 If you are thinking about something, then that's just 18:23 something intellectual. Hmmm. But when you say "I feel... " 18:27 or "I am, " then you are telling me about something that you are. 18:33 Oh, so there is a difference even in the words that are used 18:37 - yes - when you express feelings and opinions. 18:42 That's right. But there's another set of words, too, 18:45 that are often used by couples 18:49 that create an ineffective environment for good 18:54 communication, and that's when I tell you what you ought to be 19:00 feeling and what you ought to be doing. 19:02 And... Oh, you mean you can't preach to me? 19:05 Oh, well why yes, we even do that. We even read the Bible 19:09 and say: "This is what God tells you to do. " 19:11 But once again, I think the words - the word differences - 19:15 that when I am expressing I need to use "I " phrases: 19:19 Oh... "I feel, " "I am. " 19:21 instead of words that connote or that express "YOU. " 19:26 "YOU " is sort of kind of an accusatory. 19:28 It's like putting the finger in the face and 19:31 telling you what you ought to be doing 19:33 and what you're doing wrong. Hmmm, I don't like that. 19:37 It's not a very good thing, is it? No! 19:39 So we need to stay away when we are expressing feelings 19:44 from telling the person what they ought to be doing 19:48 but rather expressing what I'm feeling as a result of what's 19:52 happening or what's being said. I guess this goes back to where 19:55 we talk about practice, because I remember when we were first 20:00 introduced to dialogue, and I did practice. 20:04 Here we go with temperaments again. 20:06 And I remember practicing what I was going to say to you 20:11 and how you were going to respond, I hoped. 20:16 And what I was going to say in response so that when 20:19 we were together I'd know how to do this dialogue thing. 20:25 And, of course, you know you are very, usually predictable. 20:31 Thank you, I guess. So your part was pretty good, 20:36 but then I didn't always get my part real well. 20:40 And I remember you saying to me one time: 20:42 "But this is not dialogue. " 20:44 And I remember saying: "I don't want to dialogue. 20:47 I just want to tell you what I feel. " 20:51 But eventually I learned that being able to share what I felt 20:56 in a very calm way and talking about what I really felt 21:01 and not expressing opinions was very effective. 21:05 And that you didn't do this when I began to talk about 21:10 my feelings. Because I realized when I learned to read 21:14 non-verbals that sometimes I was making you do this 21:18 rather than do this. And that does make a difference, 21:23 doesn't it? Yes, it does! 21:24 A lot of times you might find out in your relationships 21:28 and in your communication, if you are watching 21:31 and listening to your partner, your spouse, 21:36 if the reaction is not a good reaction, 21:39 you might discuss well what's happening, what's going on 21:42 that you feel. What are you feeling right now? 21:44 The use of feeling words is better to use than, as it says 21:49 in the 29th verse of Ephesians 5, 21:52 using abusive language. A lot of times we fall into the habit 21:56 of using abusive language. God says that's not good. 22:00 And the language of the Bible expresses that as brought out 22:03 so well in the New Living Translation 22:05 that we can be abusive to our spouses if we are using 22:10 language that is abusive or attitudes or emotions that 22:14 are abusive or treating the other person unkindly 22:18 and less than encouraging. So we need to be careful about that. 22:21 Well, I don't know if it's always abusive or less than 22:27 encouraging. I think that because our society is of such, 22:31 sometimes it's frightening 22:34 because, you know, I'm planted 22:37 pretty close to the water and so tears run pretty freely. 22:41 And I think that maybe you were a bit frightened by the tears? 22:46 Well, that's another part of feeling. 22:51 Tears do express feeling. 22:53 Yes. And sometimes it is 22:55 threatening more than abusive 22:58 um-hmm - to the other person 22:59 because they want to own the tears, and sometimes 23:02 the ownership of the tears truly are the person who is 23:06 crying. And not necessarily caused by another individual 23:11 who is talking to them. So, those are the things that need 23:14 to be discussed. A couple of other elements 23:17 that I think are important because time is involved 23:20 in this. Setting aside the right amount of time 23:22 with not having interference or interruption. 23:26 That's back to your intimate relationship. That's right. 23:29 We're going back to creating an intimate environment. 23:33 Also, not cutting the person off before they are finishing 23:37 what they are saying. Not trying to finish their thoughts 23:41 or trying to think of what you're going to say 23:45 rather than listening to what's being said. 23:48 These are things we have learned - yes - 23:50 that have helped us to be more effective - yes - in listening 23:54 as well as in sharing. And, of course, that sharing 23:57 is not talking so long that the other person never has a chance 24:02 to reflect what they just heard - true - so that you can know 24:06 that you are being heard. And I think that when we go back 24:10 to looking at the equation of the sacred circle 24:14 and the relationship that one has with God, 24:17 God says: "Be still and know that I am God. " 24:21 Because you need to listen to Him first. 24:25 That's how you learn how to listen. 24:27 And so you learn that skill by listening to what God has to say 24:31 to you. So then you can bring that to learning how to listen 24:34 to your spouse. 24:36 You've just shared something that's very important. 24:38 And I don't know if you intentionally did that, 24:42 but I need to share that with others. 24:45 And that is: communicating is a skill that can be learned. 24:50 It is not automatic. 24:52 It is not because you go to church and you love God that you 24:55 will have it. You need to be intentional about learning 24:59 good communication skills because a lot of things we learn 25:05 in the families of origin. Um-hmm. Sometimes we learn 25:09 the wrong way of communication or ineffective communication. 25:14 And we just think that however it was done in my family, 25:18 or the way I'm used to doing it, is going to be OK. 25:21 But then you bring two people together from two different 25:24 families, two different sets of expectations, 25:26 BAM! Then we've got explosions and we've got difficulty. 25:31 And it's a block and a barrier to creating the kind of 25:34 environment that is a loving, encouraging environment - yes - 25:38 in marriage. Yes! And that's what we want to achieve. 25:41 And really, that's one of the other advantages of 25:45 pre-marriage education because this is the place to learn 25:48 effective communication skills for couples. 25:51 And it's also a good precursor to understanding 25:56 that when we are on an understanding level 25:58 or if we are having difficulty there's always one conversation 26:02 that will help in all of our communication, 26:05 and that is talking to God. 26:07 Why don't we do that right now? Why don't we? 26:09 Thank you, Lord, for hearing us and knowing us 26:13 as your children who are trying to live a life of marriage 26:17 according to Your will. 26:18 Help us to be more responsive to each other 26:21 as marriage partners in our communication. 26:25 And may we develop those skills according to Your Holy Spirit's 26:29 power. And thank you, Lord, for not only hearing 26:33 but thank you, Lord, for speaking to us. 26:36 And thank you for sharing Your love with us. 26:39 We pray in the lovely name of Jesus, Amen and Amen. 26:45 There are some things that we have discussed that perhaps 26:48 need to be discussed in your home... in your marriage. 26:52 And remember the sacred circle. 26:54 These are things that ought to be taken into the 26:58 private setting of your private place as husband and wife. 27:03 Discussions of this type should not be in front of the children. 27:08 They should not be out in front of public or those who are 27:12 outside of that sacred circle. 27:13 You and the Lord must work on these things. 27:16 We have found that effective. Yes, because often times 27:20 when you work on things together with the Lord 27:23 He speaks to you in ways you can't even begin to imagine. 27:28 That's right. And if you're listening, you'll be able to 27:31 hear and to pass along what you've learned to your spouse. 27:35 We thank you so much for being with us. 27:38 We hope we've been helpful, and we know that your 27:41 communication will be more effective. God bless you. |
Revised 2014-12-17