Participants: Tom Waters, Alane Waters
Series Code: MGH
Program Code: MGH000022
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00:01 A promise
00:03 to love 00:06 in good times 00:08 and bad 00:11 for richer 00:14 or poorer 00:17 forsaking all others 00:19 as long as 00:21 you both shall live 00:25 MARRIAGE In God's Hands 00:26 Marriage Heart to Heart with Tom and Alane Waters 00:31 Welcome to Marriage Heart to Heart! 00:33 We're Tom & Alane Waters with Restoration International 00:36 Today we're going to be talking about 00:39 when counseling is necessary. 00:41 We want to look at three vital keys in counseling 00:43 so we hope that you have a paper and pencil. 00:46 So is counseling necessary sometimes? 00:49 It is, sometimes necessary! 00:51 You know, the sad thing is, is that many people 00:54 go to too many of the wrong people to get counseling 00:57 when it really isn't necessary. 01:00 They just really want to tell their story to somebody. 01:04 So we want to talk about today when it's necessary 01:08 and how to go about getting the right kind of counsel 01:11 when it is necessary. 01:13 You know, sometimes honey, people feel inadequate. 01:16 They just don't feel like they're equipped, 01:18 that the problems may not be all that big 01:20 and every problem is resolvable through Christ. 01:23 But some people feel inadequate or they feel 01:27 the pain is too great, the hurt is too deep. 01:31 Some people don't feel that they can express themselves right. 01:37 I remember a couple that came to, 01:40 actually came to me at one of our family camps. 01:44 And I remember the desperation in his voice 01:48 and he said: " I feel like we need counseling!" 01:53 He was desperate to get help and he said: 01:56 "But I don't wan to break the sacred circle!" 01:59 "I know that there is a sacred circle around every home!" 02:03 And he said: "I want to be sensitive not to do that!" 02:07 And so he said: "I feel like we need counseling 02:09 but I don't know if my wife really wants to get counseling 02:14 and I'm afraid of going outside of that family circle! 02:19 I'm afraid of breaking it by going to someone! " 02:22 He said: "Can you tell me what should I do?" 02:26 And I said: "Well, I certainly respect you 02:29 for not wanting to break that sacred circle! " 02:31 Too many people today are breaking that sacred circle, 02:34 unnecessarily bringing friends and family 02:37 in that can't really help them! 02:39 I said: "But if you are at a point 02:40 in your marriage where you 02:42 are not finding the answers and things are going to 02:46 what we call the fatal cycle and the communication 02:50 is getting more and more difficult. " 02:52 Then I said: " If you're gong to break that sacred circle 02:55 from within then you need to consider that it may be 02:59 time to get Godly principled counsel. " 03:04 So he said: "Well, I'm going to go back and talk to my wife!" 03:06 Well, a few hours later, as you remember honey, 03:10 he came back and he said: "We need time together!" 03:13 "Can we set an appointment?" So we 03:15 we set up an appointment and we began to 03:19 share with this couple. And within the first, probably 03:23 few minutes, ten minutes maybe of sharing together 03:27 this woman began to share with us 03:32 that not only was she about to break 03:36 that sacred circle, 03:38 she had already planned her suicide. 03:42 And this was not going to be an attempt! 03:44 It was well planned out! 03:47 Her husband did not have any idea how far 03:51 she had gone in this process and how desperate they were. 03:55 But I thank the Lord that He was sensitive 03:58 that they needed help! 03:59 So that utter helplessness that she experienced 04:02 and that I think he experienced, 04:05 led them to seek counsel. Even though it's not comfortable 04:08 to open up your weaknesses and your problems to someone else. 04:11 Well, let's talk about three areas 04:14 that we need to be sensitive to when we seek counseling. 04:18 This is very important! You know, so often, 04:21 when people want to share about the problems in their marriage 04:26 it's all to tell about how bad the other person is. 04:30 And that is one of the most important keys in counseling 04:35 is that you don't go to the counselor 04:37 to put the other person down! You go to the counselor 04:40 to seek a solution and a resolution. 04:42 - Yes, the story must come out! - That's right! 04:46 But it's not going there to tell all my side of the story; 04:50 to gain sympathy for myself! 04:52 And I think this is one of the greatest 04:55 deadly aspects of counseling or sharing, 04:58 thinking that people are going to be getting counsel 05:01 is that they go to share their 05:05 their experience to gain sympathy for the position. 05:08 Why they are in the mess that they're in their marriage. 05:11 And so the most important thing to start with is that 05:14 when we seek counsel from someone else 05:17 that we go there not to gain sympathy for my position 05:22 but we go to really express 05:25 what's happening from our perspective: 05:27 my husband from his perspective. 05:29 And then that individual is seeking to restore. 05:32 I can remember 05:34 one lady who called and she said: 05:39 "We are in trouble! We are in trouble!" 05:42 She and her husband were separated and 05:45 they were now at the point of fighting 05:47 over who's going to have the child. 05:50 And she wanted help, she wanted counseling. 05:52 She was at the end! 05:54 But she started to share all 05:57 her side of the story to gain sympathy 06:00 for why she chose to walk away from her husband. 06:04 And in that situation 06:06 it's very important that the counselor seeks God 06:09 for direction as well! 06:11 And as I was listening to her I said: 06:13 "Do you really love your husband?" 06:16 And there was this pause on the phone. 06:18 "Well, yes I do!" "- Well 06:21 do you really love your husband? "; 06:23 another long pause: 06:25 "Yes I really do!" 06:27 "And you love him but you're in a separation. Now you're ready 06:30 to consider divorce. You're fighting over a child. 06:33 But yet in your heart you still love your husband. " 06:36 And I shared with her this verse that the Lord showed me 06:39 many years ago, that helped to change 06:41 my position in our marriage. And it was a positive 06:45 influence in our marriage. 06:46 It's found in 1 Corinthians 7:14: 06:48 "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife" 06:52 - Amen! - Now that unbelieving husband 06:55 isn't necessarily a husband who isn't of the same faith 06:58 or doesn't believe in God. 07:00 It means a husband who is struggling in his own person, 07:03 in his own Christian walk, that he 07:06 isn't really believing in what God can do! 07:09 If the wife will hold on to the Lord she can be 07:12 a tool in God's Hands to change that situation. 07:15 And that husband can be sanctified or brought 07:19 to the Lord through her influence. 07:21 And as I shared that with her that day 07:24 it was very encouraging and she broke down 07:26 and then she started crying and she says: 07:28 "I really don't even want to be separated from my husband!" 07:30 "I just didn't know what to do! My pain and my hurt is so deep 07:33 and his anger is so intense that we just 07:36 separated for survival! " 07:39 And within just a couple of days she was back in the home 07:41 and they were starting to work through things. 07:44 And it was exciting to see! And I challenged her: 07:46 "Pray for God to do a miracle!" 07:48 She says: "You don't understand!" 07:49 "My husband is a workaholic! He works 12-14 hours a day 07:53 5-6 sometimes 7 days a week! " 07:56 You know, no wonder there's stress in the marriage! 07:59 I said: "Just pray that God will put it in his heart!" 08:02 you know, and I encouraged her to attend 08:04 a family camp meeting. 08:05 She said: "There's no way! When is the next one?" 08:07 I said: "Next week!" "No way is this going to happen!" 08:11 And one week later or it was a little longer than a week 08:13 they were there! He, - That's right! 08:15 The Lord provided the opportunity! 08:17 And they are a very happy couple! 08:20 Yes! It's the joy in seeing people 08:23 responding to proper counsel, 08:27 Biblical Godly counsel, 08:30 giving them hope again. Because I remember when, the first 08:33 time you talked to that lady and how hopeless she felt. 08:37 And then in such a short time, within, you know, 08:41 a couple of weeks to see the testimony that they had 08:44 was so powerful! 08:46 As she was allowing God to deal with her hurt 08:50 it was the encouragement her husband needed 08:52 to deal with his anger. 08:54 And they were both being restored simultaneously. 08:57 And it brought a beautiful relationship! I mean the peace 09:01 and the joy that's in the home, the love 09:03 that radiates between them whenever we see them. I mean 09:05 it's just like, you know those love electrons 09:07 are going back and forward. You can just see it 09:10 in their experience. - Yes! And that's what we want 09:13 other people to recognize. 09:15 You can have a marriage that's heart to heart! 09:18 Don't let the Devil tell you that 09:20 it only works for other people, and it can't happen for me 09:23 and my problems are too difficult, 09:26 because there is Life Changing Power 09:30 in the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Power to change your situation 09:34 and to give you solutions to the difficulties that you're facing! 09:38 The second area that we need to talk about is 09:42 "Alright! We need to seek counseling!" 09:46 So, where do we go for counseling? 09:48 I remember one couple that called and they said: 09:52 "You know? We are so afraid of counseling! 09:56 We know the kind of work that your ministry does. 09:59 And we know of some of the results that 10:02 God has blessed with. " 10:04 But they said: "We went to 10:07 our Pastor unfortunately. 10:09 And we thought that we were going to get Godly counsel 10:12 and one week later we came to Church and we find out 10:16 that nearly the entire Church knew the inside story 10:20 of our pain and suffering! " 10:22 That is tragic! 10:24 So, realize that if you've come to a place 10:28 that you need counseling, that you need to then go to someone 10:32 who's going to provide you unbiased counseling. 10:37 They're not your friend and they're going to take your side 10:39 and they're going to say: "Yes! Your husband, your wife or 10:41 or whatever is terrible and you ought to get rid of them!" 10:44 Because we hear a lot of people stories and many times 10:48 they're coming saying: 10:49 "You know, everybody in my Church is telling me 10:52 that I need to get rid of husband! " 10:54 "You're the first person that's telling me 10:56 that there's a solution and that I don't have to get rid of 10:59 my husband! " So you want to go to an unbiased counselor 11:04 in someone that you can be confident 11:07 is not going to tell your story to the other people around. 11:12 Now, there may be times when there may be a family member 11:15 who can truly take that position 11:17 and be unbiased - That's right! 11:19 but it's not very often that that happens. 11:21 And so that's very important that the person 11:24 that is being sought for counseling 11:27 that person has a walk with God and they only 11:30 give counsel based of the principles of God's Word. 11:34 Otherwise we are subject to man's ideas, man's wisdom, 11:38 man's philosophies and psychology 11:41 that always lead to a dead end street! 11:44 They may bring about some 11:46 external changes in the marriage but 11:48 the deeper heart work isn't there! That deep heart work 11:51 only comes from Jesus Christ! And that's why it's important 11:54 that we seek a Christian counselor! 11:58 So, the third area is that it comes from Biblical principles. 12:03 You know, I found that even in counseling with people 12:07 who may not see things exactly the same way or even be 12:12 of our faith or even be calling themselves Christians, 12:17 those people are desirous of what God's Word offers! 12:21 And if we bring that to them in a very personal practical way 12:26 they can see first hand the Power of God's 12:28 Life Changing Word! 12:30 So the first area was: 12:33 "Don't go to a counselor to get sympathy!" 12:35 "Don't go to someone to get sympathy!" 12:37 That's right! - Find a Godly counselor 12:40 who's going to use the third aspect, the third key 12:44 Biblical principles for that counseling! 12:46 Ok! so it's not for self pity and sympathy. 12:50 It's finding someone that you can have confidence in 12:53 that's got a demonstrated walk with God 12:56 and is abiding with those principles. 12:59 And then you can see that the counsel that 13:01 they're going to share it's coming from those principles, 13:04 from the principles of God's Word. 13:06 Those three things are very powerful and we've seen 13:10 the effect of those things in many, many peoples lives. 13:14 We need to take a break now! 13:16 When we come back we're going to be talking about 13:19 more of the things that we can experience 13:22 if we need counseling, that can make the life changing 13:25 difference so that we can have a marriage heart to heart! 13:28 Stay with us! We'll be right back! 13:39 There are many "How to?" books available, 13:41 but there's one that's free and perfect for every couple: 13:44 how you can "Build a Better Marriage". 13:47 Bible-based, matrimonial advice 13:49 is given in a lighthearted, easy-to-read manner, 13:52 for those contemplating marriage, 13:53 newlyweds, couples in their golden years, 13:56 and everyone in-between. 13:59 Simply call or write for your free copy 14:00 of this amazing little booklet, a handy little tool 14:03 to help build a better marriage. 14:15 Welcome back! As we're talking about 14:18 when we need counseling 14:20 what do we do? 14:24 I want to just share with you that 14:26 one of the modern psychologies that's out there, 14:29 that's very prevalent 14:31 wants you to rehearse all these things all these things 14:34 that you've gone through. We were at another of our 14:37 family camp meetings and a couple came to us 14:41 and she was having a terrible time working through 14:45 the past. She had been sexually abused as a child 14:48 and in her teenage years. 14:51 And the counseling that she was receiving 14:53 was only making her more fearful, 14:55 it was only making it more alive in her mind 14:58 and more difficult to trust her husband, who was not 15:01 the one that she needed to be distrusting at all! 15:05 He was trying in every way to work through this and 15:07 tenderly bring her through. 15:09 And, you can remember, as we sat with them 15:12 that evening, talking together alone, 15:15 that she was going through a terrible trauma. 15:18 And part of the reason was because of the counseling 15:21 that she had been going through was asking her 15:25 to dig up all the past. Now, the "motives" were good! 15:29 Ok? Dig up all the past, write out as much of it as she could 15:34 remember, then burn it! 15:40 Now, 15:41 that may sound very good but I wanna tell you 15:43 that I've dealt with more than a few 15:45 that have come from this kind of psychological philosophy 15:51 that we need to bring this stuff all up, 15:53 get it out on the paper, 15:55 process it and burn it! 15:58 But I want to ask you something 'cause 16:00 I know that's true from my wife. 16:02 If she makes a shopping list, a grocery list let's say 16:06 to go to town what do you think happens 16:09 if she walks out the door and forgets her grocery list? 16:13 Here's the question: 16:16 Do you remember better because you've written it down? 16:19 Or would you've been better off not having a list at all 16:23 and never writing anything down? 16:24 What happens in that situation? 16:26 We always remember better what we write down! 16:28 - That's right! - I mean all through school 16:30 we're taught to take notes so we remember what we've heard. 16:32 - That's right! - And so this idea of 16:34 writing everything that's been bad in your life 16:37 and write it down how you felt about it and who 16:40 the people were and what happened in detail 16:42 only brings it very vivid. It has to be relived, relived, 16:47 relived in the mind! - That's right! 16:49 And it's not easily forgotten! 16:52 And I know that it made it difficult for this lady 16:56 because all of the distrust of the past, 17:01 because of the pain she went through and the trauma 17:03 she went through with men made it very difficult 17:05 for her to believe that her husband really loved her! 17:09 Because she had never experienced true love! 17:11 All through childhood and her teenage years 17:14 prior to her marriage she never experienced 17:16 pure holy love a man would give a woman. 17:20 And so, it made it very difficult for her to believe 17:22 it was possible. And the battle was very great in her mind. 17:26 That's right! 17:28 Well, let's talk about the Biblical principle 17:30 because we believe that God's Word has a solution 17:35 to every problem. 17:37 It has a principle or a group of principles that we can go to 17:41 to help formulate what do we do in these situations. 17:46 Philippians 3 the 13th and 14h verses says that 17:51 "forgetting those things which are behind" 17:54 - Doing what? - Forgetting them! 17:56 Don't recall them! Don't bring them back! 17:58 - Don't rehearse them! - Don't rehearse them! 18:00 But "forgetting those things which are behind, 18:03 and reaching forth unto those things which are before" 18:07 What would that mean? 18:09 "Reaching forth unto the things which are before"? 18:11 That means looking for the new things that in thins case 18:16 her husband was trying to offer her. 18:19 - The reality of what - That's right! 18:21 he had in his heart for her! He truly loved her! 18:24 The past, he wasn't interested in her past! 18:26 He loved her for who she was! - That's right! 18:29 And that's where she had to put her thoughts! 18:31 Yes! And then it goes on and it says: 18:34 "I press toward the mark for the prize 18:37 of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. " 18:42 It's Christ that will help us go through this process. 18:45 And it is for the prize and of course, this verse 18:49 talks about the ultimate prize that's out there for us, 18:52 the eternal life, receiving the Crown of Life. 18:55 But it's also talking about a process here 18:58 that we can experience, that we can go through together 19:01 with the Lord. He will help us forget! 19:04 And one of the ways that He helps us forget 19:06 is He gives us better thoughts to think! 19:08 - That's right! - He gives us a new way of 19:10 of dealing with instead of living in the old lies 19:13 He gives us the truth of the present circumstances 19:16 that we can build up on and grow into. 19:19 That's why I think He tells us through the Apostle Paul 19:22 that we need to think on those things that are 19:25 pure, holy, just good and lovely. 19:29 That's what we need to spend our time dwelling on. 19:31 It doesn't mean that we ignore real needs 19:34 but some of the old past, the things that we failed in. 19:37 Or that we'd been taken advantage of 19:40 or ravaged by in the past. 19:42 We can leave those thoughts behind and 19:45 choose to think on what is truth, what is reality! 19:49 And for her, for her reality was 19:52 her husband really loved and cared for her! 19:54 And she developed trust in him. 19:56 And she developed respect for him as a man! 19:59 And their marriage grew beautifully! 20:00 And she trusted him! 20:02 And you could see the difference. I mean they just 20:04 blossomed as a couple when that took place! 20:07 It's so beautiful because it's nice 20:09 to be able to tell the end of these stories. Because 20:12 these are real people. These are not stories that we've 20:15 read in a book or heard on a tape. These are real people 20:18 that we know who's lives have been 20:22 eternally changed because of the principles of God's word; 20:26 because they weren't just going for counseling 20:30 to get sympathy. They were coming to receive 20:34 Biblical Godly counseling. They were coming to have 20:38 a confidence that the person that they were talking to, 20:41 that we were not going to share this with anyone else 20:45 as we never do! And so there's hundreds of people 20:49 that would fit this description that we're making right now. 20:52 But these people never have to be concerned 20:56 that their names will ever be used or that they will be 20:58 identified by any particular things that they went through. 21:02 So it's nice to be able to tell the end of these stories 21:04 and to know what that couple and their families 21:07 are experiencing today. Because there's hope 21:10 in the Gospel of Jesus Christ! - There is! There's hope! 21:13 There's power and there's peace! 21:16 And then we experience that joy that God 21:19 wants us to experience in our marriages. 21:21 - Amen! - And that's what's exciting! 21:22 You know, you don't just have to write it down 21:23 though, to remember it, to have it cause those things. 21:26 I remember one woman. Well, this is happened 21:29 more than a few times. You know she, 21:31 she and her husband were in difficulties. And they were 21:34 trying to work it out and then 21:36 they would make progress and then they would, 21:38 she would fall back in some of her old ways of thinking. 21:41 And they were really struggling. 21:42 And finally a dear friend of theirs convinced them to seek 21:46 this particular individual to counsel with. 21:49 And the person came with good recommendations. 21:52 Now, it's interesting that the lady, 21:55 the wife in this situation had a caution. 21:57 And I want to highlight this! 21:58 She wasn't quite comfortable with it 22:00 But because her dear friend suggested 22:02 that she get counseling, she put her trust in that friend 22:05 instead of in the cautions that God had given her. 22:08 So they proceeded with the counseling. 22:11 And at the end of that she said: 22:13 "All he wanted to know is what happened!" 22:15 "What did you go through? How did you feel 22:19 when these were taking place in your life? " 22:22 And at the end of it all she got physically ill 22:27 from having to again relive that past that was so ugly 22:32 and so demoralizing to her. 22:34 She got physically ill and instead of it 22:39 helping her husband to understand where she came from 22:41 because of her response and just having to relive it 22:45 it created a bigger golf between them. 22:47 And they've had to, you know, recover from that 22:51 and begin again, you know. 22:54 There's been things in your past that I don't know about; 22:56 there's been things in my past that you don't know about. 22:59 It doesn't have to change our love for one another! 23:02 And it's not because it wouldn't be a willingness 23:04 to share that past. But we've said to leave that past behind 23:08 if it's not necessary 23:10 for building the future that we need. 23:11 - That's right! - It's not because we've been 23:13 hiding it from each other or that we refuse to talk about it. 23:18 So, we need to challenge you 23:20 again as we've been challenged ourselves 23:23 and as we have been able to encourage other people. 23:26 We need to challenge you that today, if you find 23:29 yourself in a problem that seems unsolvable, 23:35 that you feel like there's, you know, 23:37 "We're just not getting past this! What do we do?" 23:41 Well, stop going to people that can't help you! 23:45 Stop going to friends that will only support your side! 23:48 Stop going just for sympathy to say: 23:52 "I want you to see it my way!" 23:54 All those things won't help you! 23:56 If you find yourself in need of counsel 24:00 then the first thing that you need 24:02 is to let the Lord have your heart to begin with. 24:07 Because if He has your heart 24:11 then He has the position to heal your heart. 24:15 If all you wanna do is change the other person 24:18 it's very difficult, because God wants to change us first. 24:21 Or he wants to begin changing us 24:24 while He then can be changing both of us 24:26 at the same time. 24:28 So we encourage that you start first with the Lord. 24:32 And if you feel that you need help beyond God 24:35 and the Word, that written Word that's there 24:38 then pray earnestly that God will direct you 24:42 to just the person that you need to counsel with. 24:45 And again, go to that person and make sure 24:49 that your story, your experience, your 24:54 situation will be confidential. 24:57 And make sure that they are going to take 25:01 an unbiased position in counseling with you. 25:04 - That's right! - As well as they are going 25:06 to share with you principles from the word of God 25:09 on finding the true solution to heal your marriage. 25:13 That's right! 25:15 Well, He is the Solution! 25:18 - He is the Mighty Counselor! - Amen! 25:22 And He is the one that wants to give us the best! 25:25 He may have to use somebody else! 25:27 But He wants to be our Counselor! 25:30 And I think it would be fitting for us as we 25:32 close this program to go to the Mighty Counselor 25:37 And if you find yourself in a difficult position 25:40 maybe you can enter into this pray with us 25:42 for that Mighty Counselor to begin to make 25:45 the difference in your life! 25:46 So we pray together? 25:48 Father in Heaven we do thank You for 25:51 the assurance that You are the God of all flesh. 25:55 And there's nothing too hard for You! 25:58 That You do have the solution to every problem. 26:01 And we come to You for the many people 26:05 today. Maybe someone who's viewing this program, who is 26:10 desperately in need of Your Saving Power; 26:16 Lord, if they need that Power, 26:19 may You work in their hearts and may You connect them 26:21 if necessary, with someone who can be a tool in Your Hands 26:26 for their restoration! In Jesus name Amen! 26:32 Well, next time we get together, 26:34 and we hope that you'll be joining us next time, 26:37 we're going to be talking about something 26:39 that's a lot of fun! 26:41 - Keeping our love alive! - That's right! 26:44 - It's fun isn't it? - It is! It's one of my most 26:46 favorite topics! 26:49 Keeping love alive! 26:51 You know, we want you 26:53 to have a marriage that's heart to heart. 26:56 And we know that the missing link for us 27:00 was having a relationship with God 27:05 that was heart to heart first! 27:07 We cannot not hold on God! 27:09 We cannot separate God from our marriage 27:12 and expect to have a marriage that's heart to heart. 27:15 So, next time we're together we're going to be talking about 27:18 the ways that we can keep love alive! 27:22 As we keep that love alive with our Heavenly Father, 27:25 with our Personal Saviour 27:28 we will be able to keep love alive in our marriage! 27:32 We have a marriage that's heart to heart! 27:35 And we want you to have a marriage that's heart to heart! 27:40 So we hope we'll see you next time! 27:42 Keeping love alive! 28:27 Captioning and translations by Christian Media Services |
Revised 2014-12-17