Music...
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Pastor Bohr: Let's pray...
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"Our Father and our God,
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we come before Your holy throne
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because we need
help now as we study
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this very important subject
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titled: Reflections
on Ecumenical Charity.
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I ask, Lord, that You will
give me the words to speak...
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that You will give the
Viewers willingness of heart
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and that Lord, when
all is said and done,
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we might hear Your
voice and only Your voice
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and we thank You for
the promise of Your presence
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and we claim that promise
in the precious name of Jesus,
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amen. "
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In our last Presentation,
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we saw that since the 1960s
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there has been an increasing
ecumenical relationship
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between Protestants and
the Roman Catholic Papacy.
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Whereas before this,
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Protestants were
extremely suspicious
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of the
aspirations of the Papacy...
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since then, the ice has melted
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and Protestants are
feeling increasingly comfortable
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in uniting with the Papacy.
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We noticed in our
last study together
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that the election
of John F. Kennedy
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in the early 1960s
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helped the ice to melt between
Protestants and Catholics.
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We also notice that Vatican
Council 2 opened the door
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for Protestants to be observers
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and Protestants came
to be more comfortable
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with the Papacy
than ever before.
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Ellen White wrote
some very wise words
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in the book: Great
Controversy page 566.
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This is how it reads.
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On screen...
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So, Ellen White discerned
the signs of the times.
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She states that Protestants
were tampering with the Papacy,
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they made
compromises and concessions
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that even surprised
the Roman Catholic Papacy
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and that we need to
definitely let the world know
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about the dangers to
civil and religious liberty
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of this Union.
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Now, in our Study
today, we're going to notice
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five other elements
that have led to Protestants
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feeling comfortable with
the Roman Catholic Papacy.
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Those five are: The
adaption of liberal ideas,
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False charity...
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Union in common
points of doctrine...
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A common subjective experience
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and a Change in
prophetic hermeneutics.
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If Protestantism stood on the
firm platform of Bible truths,
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Protestantism could never
merge with Roman Catholicism.
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The freedoms that we
enjoy today in the United States
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in American Society
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are the result of the
spirit of Protestantism.
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These freedoms that we enjoy
include a strong work ethic,
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freedom of speech...
freedom of the Press...
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freedom of enterprise...
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freedom of assembly...
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freedom to ask
the Civil Government
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to redress grievances...
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freedom of conscience
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and freedom of religion.
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But all this...
according to Bible prophecy
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will disappear in
the course of time
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when Protestants and Papists
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join together with the
Civil Powers of the world,
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to oppress the conscience
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as happened
during the 1260 years
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in the past Papal supremacy.
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So, let's go to
these five elements
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or five aspects
that have led protestants
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to draw closer to the Papacy.
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First, the
adoption of liberal ideas.
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The critical question is:
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How could Protestants
ever unite with the Papacy
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when their
principles and practices
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are in stark contrast
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to the principles and practices
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of the Roman Catholic Church?
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One way in which
Protestants will come together
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with Catholics is by
adopting liberal ideas.
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I want to read this
statement that we find in
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in Review and
Herald, June 1, 1886
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where Ellen White wrote,
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"Catholicism is the religion
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that Protestants are
beginning to look upon
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with so much favor,
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and which will eventually
be united with Protestantism.
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This union will not take place,
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however, by a
change in in Catholicism;
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for Rome never changes.
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She claims infallibility.
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Protestantism will change... "
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and now comes the key portion,
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"The adoption of
liberal ideas on its part... "
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that is... in the
part of Protestants...
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"will bring it where it can
clasp the hand of Catholicism. "
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Of special note in this
quotation is the expression,
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"liberal ideas. "
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What did Ellen G. White
mean when she spoke about
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the adoption of
liberal ideas by Protestants
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that would lead to a
union with the Papacy?
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Ellen White uses the word
"liberal" in different ways...
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some ways positive
and some ways negative.
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If we notice in the Seventh-day
Adventist Bible Commentary
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volume 6 page 1103,
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we find a
quotation from Ellen White
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where she instructs
ministers to be liberal.
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Now, you might think
that that is talking about
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ministers becoming
liberal in their theology.
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No, she's using
the word "liberal"
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in the sense that we need to be
faithful in our stewardship...
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we need to be
faithful in giving.
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This is how it reads,
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"A responsibility rests
upon the ministers of Christ
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to educate the
churches to be liberal. "
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Clearly, not
theologically liberal
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but liberal in their giving.
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Ellen White also
used the word "liberal"
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in the sense of the foundation
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upon which the
United States was built.
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Those liberal principles upon
which this country was built
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and in the context,
she's speaking about
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the Declaration
of Independence...
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the Constitution
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and the Bill of Rights.
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In Great Controversy page 442,
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she used the word "liberal"
to speak about the generous
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principles upon which
the United States was built.
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I read... speaking about this
beast of Revelation 13:11-18.
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On screen...
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So, she uses
"liberal" and "peaceful"
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to refer to the
foundation of the United States.
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It means that the principles
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upon which this
country was built
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were very generous principles.
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So, she uses the word "liberal"
in a positive sense there.
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However, Ellen White
also uses the expression
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in a negative sense.
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The expression "liberal ideas. "
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In Ministry of Healing
page 129, Ellen White wrote,
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"The progress of reform
depends upon a clear recognition
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of fundamental truth.
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While, on the one hand,
00:09:10.85\00:09:13.08
danger lurks in
a narrow philosophy
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and a hard cold orthodoxy... "
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that would be the
emphasis on bare doctrine
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without a
relationship with Christ...
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she then talks of
the other extreme...
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"on the other hand
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there is a great danger
in a careless liberalism. "
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Going to the
other extreme saying,
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"Well, I have a
relationship with Christ,
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I don't have to
worry about my behavior. "
00:09:38.31\00:09:40.11
So, you have two extremes:
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the extreme right
and the extreme left.
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Ellen White also wrote
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in Volume 20 of
Manuscript Releases page 71,
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the following about
the word "liberalism"
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in its negative sense.
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"Sinners are continually crying,
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'You are too
narrow, so narrow. '
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'Liberalism,' cry the lawless;
00:10:01.53\00:10:04.80
'bring not your
claims of law upon us. '
00:10:04.83\00:10:07.90
'The religion of
Christ,' says another
00:10:07.94\00:10:10.11
'is too hard, I
cannot be a Christian;
00:10:10.14\00:10:12.64
it involves too much. '"
00:10:12.67\00:10:14.54
Some people say,
"Deliver us from the law...
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deliver us from doctrine...
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deliver us from
everything that restrains us
00:10:19.48\00:10:21.05
and let us be liberal. "
00:10:21.08\00:10:23.79
So, 'liberal' in this sense
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refers to
theological flexibility
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that allows Christians
to accommodate the Bible
00:10:29.09\00:10:32.53
to the whims of
culture or science so called
00:10:32.56\00:10:36.46
in the name of
diversity... inclusiveness...
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theological pluralism
00:10:40.37\00:10:42.64
without regard to
Biblical principles
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and doctrines.
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In some Protestant churches,
00:10:47.38\00:10:50.01
this idea of
liberalism or liberal ideas
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has led to accommodating
the Biblical story of creation
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and the worldwide flood
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to the discoveries
of Science, so called.
00:11:01.26\00:11:04.43
It has also led to
the ordination of women...
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to the
ordination of Gay clergy...
00:11:07.66\00:11:10.53
to confusion when
it comes to gender
00:11:10.57\00:11:13.23
and the
approval of Gay marriage.
00:11:13.27\00:11:15.90
Now, there's another
factor that has led Protestants
00:11:15.94\00:11:20.24
to feel more comfortable
with Roman Catholicism.
00:11:20.28\00:11:24.51
First, it's the idea that you
can be theologically liberal...
00:11:24.55\00:11:29.82
no doctrine.
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The second point that we find
00:11:31.65\00:11:34.22
is what is
called: False Charity.
00:11:34.26\00:11:36.89
Ellen White used this
other expression to describe
00:11:36.93\00:11:40.60
the demise of the
protest of Protestantism.
00:11:40.63\00:11:44.13
She referred to Protestants'
liberality as false charity
00:11:44.17\00:11:51.07
or what we today
call: Political Correctness.
00:11:51.11\00:11:55.64
It means turning a blind eye
00:11:55.68\00:11:58.11
to those who practice open sin
00:11:58.15\00:12:00.78
for fear of offending them.
00:12:00.82\00:12:03.39
That's what we call:
Political Correctness.
00:12:03.42\00:12:06.12
Don't say anything
that might offend someone
00:12:06.15\00:12:08.82
even if what they
are doing is wrong.
00:12:08.86\00:12:11.09
In Great Controversy page 571,
00:12:11.13\00:12:14.46
Ellen White wrote
about this expression,
00:12:14.50\00:12:17.80
"False Charity"
00:12:17.83\00:12:19.17
which would
bring Roman Catholics
00:12:19.20\00:12:20.67
and Protestants together.
00:12:20.70\00:12:22.40
She wrote, "As the Protestant
churches have been seeking
00:12:22.44\00:12:25.71
the favor of the world,
00:12:25.74\00:12:27.08
false charity has
blinded their eyes. "
00:12:27.11\00:12:30.81
So, if there's false charity,
there's true charity too.
00:12:30.85\00:12:33.08
"False charity has
blinded their eyes.
00:12:33.11\00:12:35.68
They do not see
00:12:35.72\00:12:37.62
but that it is right to
believe good of all evil... "
00:12:37.65\00:12:40.96
so, for example, saying,
00:12:40.99\00:12:43.86
"Well, you know, it doesn't
matter if a person believes
00:12:43.89\00:12:45.76
that they have a different
gender than male and female,
00:12:45.79\00:12:48.63
you know...
that's... that's fine... "
00:12:48.66\00:12:50.27
or "It doesn't matter if you are
gay or if you are straight...
00:12:50.30\00:12:53.10
or a gay marriage or
a straight marriage...
00:12:53.13\00:12:55.17
it doesn't really
make any difference. "
00:12:55.20\00:12:56.54
So, that's what
she's talking about.
00:12:56.57\00:12:57.91
"They do not see but
that it is right to believe
00:12:57.94\00:13:00.64
good of all evil,
00:13:00.68\00:13:02.38
and as the inevitable result
00:13:02.44\00:13:04.31
they will finally
believe evil of all good. "
00:13:04.35\00:13:07.38
In other places, Ellen
White explained what she meant
00:13:07.42\00:13:10.69
by false charity.
00:13:10.72\00:13:12.69
For example, in a
document that she wrote,
00:13:12.72\00:13:15.92
An Appeal to our Ministers
and Conference Committees,
00:13:15.96\00:13:18.93
written in 1892,
00:13:18.99\00:13:20.83
Ellen White expressed
herself in the following way.
00:13:20.86\00:13:24.07
On screen... 1st paragraph,
00:13:24.10\00:13:55.56
she continues... 2nd paragraph,
00:13:55.60\00:13:57.87
"Those who would cover
evil under false charity... "
00:13:57.90\00:14:01.24
that is:
Political Correctness...
00:14:01.27\00:14:02.64
do not offend anyone...
00:14:02.67\00:14:04.01
"say to the sinner,
00:14:04.04\00:14:05.54
'It shall be well with thee,'
00:14:05.57\00:14:08.01
Charity hates the
sin, but loves the sinner,
00:14:08.04\00:14:11.31
and will warn him
faithfully of his danger,
00:14:11.35\00:14:14.72
pointing him to the Lamb of God
00:14:14.75\00:14:16.99
who taketh away
the sin of the world. "
00:14:17.02\00:14:19.29
In another statement in
Prophets and Kings page 675,
00:14:19.32\00:14:24.63
Ellen White referred to
the work of Ezra and Nehemiah
00:14:24.66\00:14:27.06
in the following words,
00:14:27.10\00:14:28.43
on screen...
00:14:28.46\00:14:57.33
In Acts of the
Apostles page 554, she wrote
00:14:57.36\00:15:01.43
about true charity
and counterfeit charity.
00:15:01.46\00:15:05.53
This is how it reads:
00:15:05.57\00:15:07.34
"You must have charity,"
is the cry heard everywhere,
00:15:07.37\00:15:11.57
especially from those
who profess sanctification.
00:15:11.61\00:15:15.01
However, true
charity is too pure
00:15:15.04\00:15:19.31
to cover an unconfessed sin.
00:15:19.35\00:15:21.65
While we are to love the
souls for whom Christ died,
00:15:21.68\00:15:25.49
we are to make no
compromise with evil.
00:15:25.52\00:15:28.99
We are not to
unite with the rebellious
00:15:29.02\00:15:32.39
and call this charity.
00:15:32.43\00:15:33.93
Notice, "We are not to
unite with the rebellious
00:15:33.96\00:15:36.80
and call this charity.
00:15:36.83\00:15:38.57
God requires His people
in this age of the world
00:15:38.60\00:15:41.84
to stand for the right as
unflinchingly as did John... "
00:15:41.87\00:15:47.51
that is John the Apostle...
00:15:47.54\00:15:48.91
"in opposition to
soul-destroying errors. "
00:15:48.94\00:15:53.68
So, two factors
so far we've studied
00:15:53.72\00:15:56.99
on what brings Protestantism
and Roman Catholicism together.
00:15:57.02\00:16:01.52
Now, let's go to a third.
00:16:01.59\00:16:04.26
Union on uncommon
points of doctrine.
00:16:04.33\00:16:08.53
I want to read two statements
that we find in the book
00:16:08.56\00:16:11.63
Great Controversy.
00:16:11.67\00:16:13.10
The first is on page 444.
00:16:13.13\00:16:15.80
On screen...
00:16:15.84\00:16:44.53
Now, what happens when
you go on to unite on issues
00:16:44.57\00:16:50.17
that we have in common?
00:16:50.21\00:16:51.91
She continues,
00:16:51.94\00:16:53.48
"To secure such a union,
00:16:53.51\00:16:54.91
the discussion of subjects upon
which all were not agreed...
00:16:54.94\00:16:59.65
however important they might
be from a Bible standpoint...
00:16:59.68\00:17:04.29
must necessarily be waived. "
00:17:04.32\00:17:07.06
So, whatever we disagree
on, we just choose to ignore.
00:17:07.09\00:17:10.89
What we agree on, will unite us.
00:17:10.93\00:17:13.90
The second statement
is on the next page...
00:17:13.93\00:17:16.13
Page 445... Great Controversy,
00:17:16.16\00:17:19.27
on screen...
00:17:19.30\00:17:45.16
That's why statements
that have been made by
00:17:45.19\00:17:48.66
great television personalities
causes to have pause.
00:17:48.70\00:17:53.60
For example, Paul Crouch
the founder of TBN once said,
00:17:53.64\00:17:58.51
"I'm not protesting anything,
00:17:58.54\00:18:00.74
I'm deleting the word
"Protestant" from my vocabulary.
00:18:00.78\00:18:04.38
Or what Robert Schuller made
famous by the Crystal Cathedral
00:18:04.41\00:18:08.72
had to say... he said
that he dreamed of the day
00:18:08.75\00:18:12.25
when the Pope would be the
Head of all the Christian world
00:18:12.29\00:18:17.49
and Futurist Jack
Van Impe repeatedly said
00:18:17.53\00:18:22.26
about John Paul the Second,
00:18:22.30\00:18:23.97
"What a man!"
00:18:24.00\00:18:25.33
Now, the fourth
factor that will bring
00:18:25.37\00:18:27.90
Protestants and
Catholics together
00:18:27.94\00:18:30.81
is a common
charismatic experience.
00:18:30.84\00:18:33.68
Probably most readers
00:18:33.71\00:18:36.01
or most people who are
listening to this Presentation
00:18:36.04\00:18:39.65
have heard of Tony Palmer.
00:18:39.68\00:18:41.95
Palmer was an Anglican clergyman
of the Celtic tradition.
00:18:41.98\00:18:46.52
and he was distressed about
the divisions in his church
00:18:46.55\00:18:51.06
and the divisions in
Protestantism in general
00:18:51.09\00:18:54.73
and he yearned for unity
based on a common experience.
00:18:54.76\00:19:00.80
Not even common
doctrines but common experience.
00:19:00.84\00:19:04.77
Television
Evangelist Kenneth Copeland
00:19:04.81\00:19:07.84
invited Palmer to speak
at a Leaders' Convention
00:19:07.88\00:19:11.51
that was held in
February 25, 2014.
00:19:11.55\00:19:15.05
There were 100s of
Leaders gathered together there
00:19:15.08\00:19:18.95
for this Convention
00:19:18.99\00:19:20.32
and there Tony Palmer was
asked to speak to the delegates
00:19:20.36\00:19:26.90
who were present
00:19:26.93\00:19:28.26
and when Tony
Palmer began his talk,
00:19:28.30\00:19:32.97
he said that he had come in
the spirit and power of Elijah
00:19:33.00\00:19:38.47
to bring the hearts of
the sons to the fathers
00:19:38.51\00:19:41.61
and the fathers to the sons.
00:19:41.64\00:19:44.25
In other words, he
had been sent by God
00:19:44.28\00:19:47.85
to unite all
Christians in a common camp.
00:19:47.88\00:19:51.39
In his talk, Palmer
lamented that Martin Luther
00:19:51.42\00:19:56.29
had brought about... as a
result of the Reformation,
00:19:56.32\00:20:00.36
the great divisions that
exist in Protestantism today.
00:20:00.40\00:20:04.40
He referred to
33,000 Denominations
00:20:04.43\00:20:07.17
exists today as the result
of the Protestant Reformation
00:20:07.20\00:20:11.47
and he referred to
diversity as divine
00:20:11.51\00:20:14.98
and division as diabolic.
00:20:15.04\00:20:18.48
Now, Folks,
diversity is not divine
00:20:18.51\00:20:22.38
when it contradicts the Bible
00:20:22.42\00:20:25.22
and division is not diabolic
00:20:25.25\00:20:28.02
when what is being taught is
not in harmony with the Bible.
00:20:28.06\00:20:33.43
Tony Palmer said that it's
the glory that unites all of us
00:20:33.46\00:20:38.83
and makes us one.
00:20:38.87\00:20:40.20
The glory is to be one.
00:20:40.24\00:20:41.74
I read now what
he said in his speech
00:20:41.77\00:20:44.74
to this Leaders' Convention.
00:20:44.77\00:20:46.11
"It is the glory
that glues us together...
00:20:46.14\00:20:49.34
not the
doctrine... it's the glory.
00:20:49.41\00:20:53.01
If you accept that the
glory of God is living in me
00:20:53.05\00:20:56.79
and the presence
of God is in you,
00:20:56.85\00:20:59.32
that's all we need
00:20:59.35\00:21:00.72
because God will sort out all
our doctrine later upstairs. "
00:21:00.76\00:21:05.46
So, doctrine
isn't important here...
00:21:05.49\00:21:08.40
some day our differences
will be explained by God
00:21:08.43\00:21:11.37
when we are in the kingdom.
00:21:11.40\00:21:13.07
Then he stated, "Christian unity
00:21:13.10\00:21:15.97
is the basis of our credibility
00:21:16.00\00:21:18.84
because Jesus said
that until we are one,
00:21:18.87\00:21:22.64
the world will not believe.
00:21:22.71\00:21:24.48
Yes, but we need to be
one on the basis of truth
00:21:24.51\00:21:28.82
not on the
basis of a charismatic
00:21:28.85\00:21:31.35
emotional personal experience.
00:21:31.39\00:21:33.86
As we mentioned in our
previous Presentation...
00:21:33.89\00:21:37.39
in 1999, Lutherans and Catholics
00:21:37.43\00:21:40.33
signed a joint declaration
on righteousness by faith.
00:21:40.36\00:21:45.00
Basically, what the
document said is that
00:21:45.03\00:21:48.40
Lutherans and Roman Catholics
00:21:48.44\00:21:50.71
agree on the doctrine
of righteousness by faith.
00:21:50.77\00:21:54.04
Palmer also lamented that
only one other denomination
00:21:54.08\00:21:59.31
had actually signed that
particular joint declaration
00:21:59.38\00:22:04.59
and that was the Methodists
00:22:04.62\00:22:06.62
and then, Palmer went on to say
00:22:06.65\00:22:09.42
to that Convention...
00:22:09.46\00:22:11.79
to the Leaders
in that Convention
00:22:11.83\00:22:13.29
which were leaders of
churches the following:
00:22:13.33\00:22:15.96
"Brothers and Sisters,
00:22:16.03\00:22:17.63
Luther's protest
is over... is yours?"
00:22:17.67\00:22:21.50
He lamented that
no Evangelical church
00:22:21.54\00:22:25.34
had signed the agreement
00:22:25.37\00:22:27.21
and then he said,
"This must be fixed. "
00:22:27.24\00:22:31.18
He also said, "The protest
has been over for 15 years.
00:22:31.21\00:22:37.99
If there is no
longer any protest,
00:22:38.05\00:22:41.02
how can there be
a Protestant Church?
00:22:41.06\00:22:45.79
Maybe now we're
all Catholics again. "
00:22:45.83\00:22:48.16
Interesting...
00:22:48.20\00:22:51.00
so, he's saying, the protest
is over for the last 15 years
00:22:51.03\00:22:54.14
since the joint
declaration was signed.
00:22:54.17\00:22:56.44
If there is no
longer any protest,
00:22:56.47\00:22:58.67
how can there be
a Protestant Church?
00:22:58.71\00:23:00.84
Maybe now, he says...
we are all Catholics again.
00:23:00.88\00:23:04.75
Now, Palmer was a close
friend of Pope Francis the First
00:23:04.81\00:23:09.15
and he visited the Pope
and recorded on his cell phone
00:23:09.18\00:23:13.49
a video to
present to the delegates
00:23:13.52\00:23:16.22
at a Kenneth
Copeland's Convention
00:23:16.26\00:23:19.49
and in this
message that the Pope sent
00:23:19.53\00:23:22.66
on Tony Palmer's cell
phone, were these words,
00:23:22.70\00:23:26.20
"I am yearning that this
separation comes to an end
00:23:26.23\00:23:31.17
and gives us communion.
00:23:31.24\00:23:33.84
I am yearning
for that embrace... "
00:23:33.88\00:23:36.85
and at the end of the
message that the Pope sent
00:23:36.88\00:23:39.71
to the delegates
of this Charismatic
00:23:39.75\00:23:42.02
Pentecostal
Convention, the Pope said this,
00:23:42.05\00:23:45.32
"Please pray for
me... I need your prayers
00:23:45.35\00:23:48.62
and I will pray for you
00:23:48.66\00:23:50.59
but I need your prayers
00:23:50.63\00:23:52.49
and let's pray to the
Lord that He unites us all.
00:23:52.53\00:23:56.63
Come on, we are brothers...
00:23:56.67\00:23:58.60
let's give each
other a spiritual hug
00:23:58.63\00:24:01.37
and let God complete
the work that He has begun
00:24:01.40\00:24:05.01
and this is a miracle...
00:24:05.04\00:24:06.94
the miracle of unity has begun.
00:24:06.98\00:24:09.81
I ask you to bless
me... I bless you...
00:24:09.84\00:24:13.28
from brother to
brother, I embrace you. "
00:24:13.31\00:24:16.69
After Tony Palmer presented
the message from the Pope
00:24:16.75\00:24:20.72
to the members
of the Convention,
00:24:20.76\00:24:22.22
Kenneth Copeland got up...
walked to the stage and said
00:24:22.29\00:24:27.73
several times,
"Glory, glory, glory... "
00:24:27.76\00:24:31.77
and the people stood and clapped
00:24:31.80\00:24:33.44
as Kenneth Copeland
was going up to the stage
00:24:33.47\00:24:37.17
and Copeland said as
he arrived on the stage,
00:24:37.21\00:24:40.84
"We do not know how to
pray for him as we ought. "
00:24:40.88\00:24:43.68
In other words, we don't
know how to pray for the Pope
00:24:43.71\00:24:46.11
as we ought.
00:24:46.18\00:24:47.52
So, then he started
praying in tongues...
00:24:47.55\00:24:49.85
a language that no
one could understand.
00:24:49.88\00:24:52.42
Then he told Tony
Palmer to bring his cell phone
00:24:52.45\00:24:55.32
because Kenneth
Copeland wanted to record
00:24:55.36\00:24:57.73
a message for Francis the First
00:24:57.76\00:25:00.70
and this is the message
that Kenneth Copeland shared.
00:25:00.73\00:25:04.13
"These leaders... " those
who are at the Convention,
00:25:04.17\00:25:07.57
represent literally tens
of thousands that love you. "
00:25:07.60\00:25:12.37
These are
Charismatic Protestants, Folks,
00:25:12.41\00:25:15.18
he's saying, "These
leaders love you... "
00:25:15.21\00:25:17.71
the Pope...
00:25:17.75\00:25:19.41
"that believe
that God is with you...
00:25:19.45\00:25:21.08
and in answer to your request,
we have just prayed for you
00:25:21.12\00:25:24.95
and with you and we
did so in the spirit. "
00:25:24.99\00:25:28.02
In other words... in tongues...
00:25:28.06\00:25:29.89
and then he said
this, "We do bless you...
00:25:29.92\00:25:32.76
we receive your blessings.
00:25:32.79\00:25:34.56
It is very, very important to us
00:25:34.60\00:25:37.03
and we bless you
with all our hearts.
00:25:37.07\00:25:39.73
We bless you
with all our souls...
00:25:39.80\00:25:42.34
we bless you
with all our might. "
00:25:42.37\00:25:44.84
In the Bible, this is
attributed to us blessing God
00:25:44.87\00:25:48.71
and then he continues,
"And we thank you, Sir...
00:25:48.74\00:25:52.51
we thank God for you
00:25:52.55\00:25:54.38
and so, all of
us declare together,
00:25:54.42\00:25:57.35
'Be blessed. '"
00:25:57.39\00:25:59.29
Palmer even referred
00:25:59.32\00:26:01.66
to those Christians
who did not want to unite
00:26:01.72\00:26:04.53
as Spiritual Racism.
00:26:04.56\00:26:07.16
How interesting.
00:26:07.20\00:26:09.70
Now, great
television personalities
00:26:09.73\00:26:13.74
shortly after this
00:26:13.77\00:26:15.70
traveled to the
Vatican to visit the Pope.
00:26:15.74\00:26:17.97
One of those was James Robison
00:26:18.01\00:26:20.71
who has a Program called:
"Life today" on television.
00:26:20.74\00:26:24.08
In 2014, he visited Pope Francis
and this is what he said to him,
00:26:24.11\00:26:29.68
on screen...
00:26:29.72\00:26:47.54
And then, for the
first time in history,
00:26:47.57\00:26:49.80
someone gave the
Pope a high five.
00:26:49.84\00:26:53.07
Of course, James Robison
asked for permission to do this
00:26:53.11\00:26:57.98
before he did it.
00:26:58.01\00:26:59.61
On May 5, 2014 Tony
Palmer was a special guest
00:26:59.65\00:27:04.05
on Robison's Program
00:27:04.09\00:27:05.59
and this is what
Tony Palmer said,
00:27:05.62\00:27:08.26
"Diversity is divine;
00:27:08.32\00:27:10.69
it is division
that is diabolic... "
00:27:10.73\00:27:13.80
and now notice this
superficial theology...
00:27:13.83\00:27:18.07
"Jesus' theology is
that if God is in you,
00:27:18.10\00:27:22.30
and you are in God
00:27:22.34\00:27:24.41
and God is in me
00:27:24.44\00:27:26.47
and I am in God,
00:27:26.51\00:27:28.48
we are one together in God...
00:27:28.51\00:27:31.11
Our sin is that we do
not make our unity visible
00:27:31.15\00:27:35.15
because we allow our
diversities to divide us
00:27:35.18\00:27:39.12
and if we elevate
anything to divide us,
00:27:39.15\00:27:41.89
we are elevating
it above the cross.
00:27:41.92\00:27:45.16
So, whether it is
a doctrine or a dogma
00:27:45.19\00:27:48.36
or an expression,
00:27:48.40\00:27:49.76
if you use that
to divide our unity
00:27:49.80\00:27:53.23
you have elevated that
doctrine or whatever it is
00:27:53.27\00:27:56.94
above the cross.
00:27:56.97\00:27:59.77
Now, we are not saying
'put doctrine aside... '"
00:27:59.81\00:28:02.48
so now he says,
"Well, doctrine is important"
00:28:02.51\00:28:05.11
but the question
is: which doctrines?
00:28:05.15\00:28:06.48
"So now, we are not
saying 'put doctrine aside,
00:28:06.51\00:28:09.62
certainly not!'
00:28:09.68\00:28:11.35
Pope Francis recognizes only
two fundamental doctrines...
00:28:11.39\00:28:14.96
love for God and
love for your neighbor,
00:28:14.99\00:28:18.69
end of doctrine!"
00:28:18.73\00:28:20.40
Another minister that went to
the Vatican shortly after this
00:28:20.43\00:28:24.87
was Joel Osteen...
00:28:24.90\00:28:26.23
one of the prominent television
personalities in the world today
00:28:26.27\00:28:30.71
in the United States today.
00:28:30.74\00:28:32.07
Pope Francis
invited him to meet with him
00:28:32.11\00:28:35.11
in the Vatican.
00:28:35.14\00:28:36.48
After the meeting, Osteen
told a local television station
00:28:36.51\00:28:41.72
the following.
00:28:41.78\00:28:43.22
"I just felt very
honored and very humbled. "
00:28:43.28\00:28:47.96
Here is a Protestant saying,
"I felt honored and humbled
00:28:48.02\00:28:50.76
by being invited to
the Vatican by the Pope. "
00:28:50.79\00:28:54.46
Osteen also met
with Vatican staff
00:28:54.50\00:28:58.53
but before he met
with the Vatican Staff,
00:28:58.57\00:29:01.37
he had this to say.
00:29:01.40\00:29:02.90
On screen...
00:29:02.94\00:29:15.92
Wow! this is a
Protestant speaking.
00:29:15.95\00:29:17.99
Has he forgotten the history
of the Roman Catholic Church?
00:29:18.02\00:29:21.29
Catholic Church
has not changed...
00:29:21.32\00:29:23.02
the Papacy has not changed.
00:29:23.06\00:29:24.59
Osteen met with
Cardinal Pietro Parolin,
00:29:24.63\00:29:29.00
Secretary of
State of the Vatican
00:29:29.03\00:29:31.23
and had dinner with him
00:29:31.27\00:29:33.03
as well as with
other staff members.
00:29:33.07\00:29:35.84
Prior to this meeting,
00:29:35.87\00:29:38.21
Osteen attended a
Mass in St. Peter's Square
00:29:38.24\00:29:42.31
where there were over
100,000 people in attendance
00:29:42.34\00:29:46.41
and then he remarked
after this Service...
00:29:46.45\00:29:50.59
after the Eucharist was taken,
00:29:50.62\00:29:53.15
"Afterward... "
this is Osteen...
00:29:53.19\00:29:55.99
"the Pope spent
an hour and a half
00:29:56.02\00:29:58.73
going through the
crowd with the Pope mobile,
00:29:58.76\00:30:02.43
greeting people;
00:30:02.46\00:30:03.90
it was very heartwarming to
see him caring for people. "
00:30:03.93\00:30:08.50
Osteen went on...
00:30:08.54\00:30:10.81
"I love the fact that he has
made the church more inclusive;
00:30:10.84\00:30:14.78
not trying to make it smaller,
00:30:14.81\00:30:17.21
but to try to make it larger...
00:30:17.25\00:30:19.38
to take everybody in.
00:30:19.41\00:30:21.48
So, that just
resonates with me. "
00:30:21.52\00:30:25.72
Another individual
that went to the Vatican
00:30:25.75\00:30:29.66
shortly after this Convention
of Leaders of Kenneth Copeland
00:30:29.69\00:30:33.96
was Rick Warren.
00:30:34.00\00:30:36.77
This was in 2014, he
was invited to participate
00:30:36.80\00:30:39.87
in a Symposium called:
00:30:39.90\00:30:42.17
The
Complementarity of Man and Woman
00:30:42.20\00:30:44.84
which was an interfaith
meeting in the Vatican.
00:30:44.87\00:30:48.54
This was on December 2, 2014
00:30:48.58\00:30:52.81
that Warren made
the following remarks
00:30:52.85\00:30:55.82
about the
differences in doctrine
00:30:55.85\00:30:57.85
between
Catholics and Protestants.
00:30:57.89\00:30:59.79
I quote, "We have far more
in common than what divides us.
00:30:59.82\00:31:04.89
They would say... " that
is... Catholics would say,
00:31:04.93\00:31:07.83
"We believe in the Trinity...
we believe in the Bible...
00:31:07.86\00:31:10.60
we believe in
the resurrection...
00:31:10.63\00:31:12.50
we believe in salvation
through Jesus Christ. "
00:31:12.53\00:31:15.14
These are the big issues...
00:31:15.17\00:31:17.61
is what is said by Warren.
00:31:17.67\00:31:20.04
He continues, "Sometimes,
Protestants think that Catholics
00:31:20.08\00:31:23.61
worship Mary...
like she's another God
00:31:23.65\00:31:26.45
but that's not
exactly Catholic doctrine.
00:31:26.51\00:31:29.78
People say, 'What
are the saints all about?
00:31:29.82\00:31:33.09
Why are you
praying to the saints?'
00:31:33.12\00:31:36.62
and when you understand
what they mean... " says Warren,
00:31:36.66\00:31:40.26
"by what they are saying,
00:31:40.30\00:31:42.30
there is a whole
lot more commonality.
00:31:42.33\00:31:45.67
Then, he continues.
00:31:45.70\00:31:48.27
There are still
real differences...
00:31:48.30\00:31:50.27
no doubt about that
00:31:50.31\00:31:51.81
but the most
important thing is...
00:31:51.84\00:31:54.21
if you love Jesus... we
are on the same team... "
00:31:54.28\00:31:57.28
imagine Protestants and
Catholics on the same team.
00:31:57.35\00:32:00.32
He continues,
"When it comes to family,
00:32:00.35\00:32:03.22
we are co-workers
in the field in this
00:32:03.25\00:32:06.02
for the protection of
the sanctity of life...
00:32:06.05\00:32:08.12
the sanctity of sex
00:32:08.19\00:32:09.79
and the sanctity of marriage.
00:32:09.82\00:32:12.29
So, there is a great commonality
00:32:12.33\00:32:14.76
and there is no division
on any of those three. "
00:32:14.80\00:32:18.67
Is it true
00:32:18.70\00:32:20.64
that there is more that unites
Protestants with Catholics
00:32:20.67\00:32:25.44
than what divides us?
00:32:25.47\00:32:27.01
The answer, of
course, is a robust "No. "
00:32:27.04\00:32:30.85
The main contribution of Luther
to the Protestant Reformation
00:32:30.88\00:32:35.18
was not righteousness
by faith as many think.
00:32:35.22\00:32:39.12
It was Sola Scriptura
because Luther discovered
00:32:39.15\00:32:43.06
righteousness by faith
as he studied the Bible.
00:32:43.09\00:32:46.90
Now, here's some questions I
would like to ask Protestants.
00:32:46.93\00:32:50.80
"Are Protestants willing
00:32:50.83\00:32:52.97
to accept the idea that the
sacrifice of Jesus on the cross
00:32:53.00\00:32:57.24
was not sufficient
00:32:57.27\00:32:58.61
and that He needs to be
sacrificed anew in every Mass?
00:32:58.64\00:33:02.64
Are Protestants
willing to accept
00:33:02.68\00:33:05.41
that some persons
will go to purgatory
00:33:05.45\00:33:08.48
to purge sins that
Jesus already forgave
00:33:08.52\00:33:11.45
when they
accepted Him as savior?
00:33:11.49\00:33:14.32
Are Protestants
willing to accept the idea
00:33:14.36\00:33:17.66
of bowing before idols
00:33:17.69\00:33:19.46
in violation of
the second commandment?
00:33:19.49\00:33:21.43
Are Protestants willing to
accept the primacy of the Pope
00:33:21.46\00:33:25.87
as a visible sovereign
of the Christian world?
00:33:25.90\00:33:29.84
Are Protestants
willing to accept the idea
00:33:29.87\00:33:33.78
that Mary is
the mother of God...
00:33:33.81\00:33:35.34
that she was conceived
without original sin...
00:33:35.38\00:33:38.35
that she never sinned
actually during her lifetime...
00:33:38.38\00:33:41.68
that she
ascended bodily to heaven
00:33:41.72\00:33:44.32
and that she now
intercedes for us?
00:33:44.35\00:33:47.39
Are Protestants
willing to accept
00:33:47.46\00:33:49.52
the practice of
canonizing saints?
00:33:49.56\00:33:51.59
Are Protestants
willing to accept the idea
00:33:51.63\00:33:54.96
that the Bible is not our
only rule of faith and practice
00:33:55.00\00:33:58.70
but also tradition
needs to be considered as part
00:33:58.73\00:34:03.10
of the way in which we determine
00:34:03.14\00:34:05.87
what is true
doctrine and what is not.
00:34:05.91\00:34:09.21
Are Protestants
willing to accept the idea
00:34:09.24\00:34:12.68
of the Catholic
Church that indulgences
00:34:12.71\00:34:16.08
can earn you
time out of purgatory
00:34:16.12\00:34:19.72
if you actually purchase
an indulgence from the Church?
00:34:19.75\00:34:24.76
Are Protestants
willing to accept the idea
00:34:24.79\00:34:27.76
that it's all right to
confess your sins to a priest
00:34:27.80\00:34:31.53
instead of confessing your
sins to God through Christ.
00:34:31.57\00:34:35.70
There are two doctrines
that virtually all Protestants
00:34:35.74\00:34:39.51
and Catholics share
00:34:39.57\00:34:40.91
and these are not the
doctrines that were mentioned
00:34:40.94\00:34:43.85
by Rick Warren.
00:34:43.91\00:34:45.55
They are the doctrine
that Sunday is the day of rest
00:34:45.58\00:34:49.22
which the Bible says
it's the seventh-day Sabbath
00:34:49.25\00:34:52.89
and the other is the
idea that when a person dies,
00:34:52.92\00:34:56.46
their soul leaves the body
and goes to heaven or to hell.
00:34:56.52\00:35:00.10
Those doctrines
are held in common
00:35:00.13\00:35:02.56
virtually by every
single Roman Catholic
00:35:02.60\00:35:05.73
and every single Protestant.
00:35:05.77\00:35:07.60
Now, let's talk for a
few moments about Ulf Eckman
00:35:07.64\00:35:12.41
and you're probably
wondering who he is.
00:35:12.44\00:35:14.01
An interesting article appeared
00:35:14.04\00:35:16.44
in the online edition
of of Christianity Today
00:35:16.48\00:35:20.12
on March 10, 2014.
00:35:20.18\00:35:23.39
The title of the
article was this:
00:35:23.42\00:35:25.89
Sweden's Pentecostal Mega
Pastor converts to Catholicism.
00:35:25.92\00:35:32.39
The sub-title of
the article read:
00:35:32.43\00:35:35.53
He stuns his Word of Life
mega church in Sunday's sermon.
00:35:35.56\00:35:41.04
He's crossing the Tiber.
00:35:41.07\00:35:43.64
The article
explained the following:
00:35:43.71\00:35:47.01
"Just who is Ulf Eckman?"
00:35:47.04\00:35:51.11
Here's the answer.
00:35:51.15\00:35:53.15
On screen...
00:35:53.18\00:36:21.01
So what reason did this
Charismatic preacher give
00:36:21.04\00:36:24.61
for leaving Protestantism
00:36:24.65\00:36:26.98
and joining the
Roman Catholic Church?
00:36:27.02\00:36:28.92
Here's his explanation.
00:36:28.95\00:36:30.85
On screen...
00:36:30.89\00:36:49.34
In other words, Protestants
are to blame for the fractures
00:36:49.37\00:36:53.88
in Protestantism
in the Christian world
00:36:53.91\00:36:56.95
and then he stated that
he would dedicate his time
00:36:56.98\00:37:02.32
to try to unite Protestants
and Christian religions
00:37:02.35\00:37:07.66
into one common body.
00:37:07.72\00:37:10.06
This is what he said.
00:37:10.09\00:37:12.36
"It really challenged our
Protestant prejudices... "
00:37:12.39\00:37:16.16
so he's saying that
Protestants are prejudiced
00:37:16.20\00:37:18.50
against Catholics.
00:37:18.53\00:37:19.87
He really challenged
our Protestant prejudices
00:37:19.90\00:37:22.64
and we realize
that we in many cases
00:37:22.70\00:37:26.51
did not have any basis
for our criticism of them.
00:37:26.54\00:37:30.61
So, in other
words, all of the blame
00:37:30.65\00:37:32.25
is the Protestant prejudices
not Roman Catholic doctrine.
00:37:32.28\00:37:36.55
It continues...
00:37:36.58\00:37:38.15
"We needed to know
the Catholic faith better.
00:37:38.19\00:37:41.46
This led us to realize
00:37:41.49\00:37:43.26
that it was
actually Jesus Christ
00:37:43.29\00:37:45.66
who led us to unite
with the Catholic Church. "
00:37:45.69\00:37:49.16
He continued...
00:37:49.20\00:37:50.57
"We have seen a great love for
Jesus and a sound theology... "
00:37:50.60\00:37:56.34
what is it based on?
00:37:56.37\00:37:58.57
"a sound theology
founded on the Bible
00:37:58.64\00:38:03.01
and classic dogma... "
00:38:03.04\00:38:05.65
in other words... tradition.
00:38:05.68\00:38:07.02
He's saying...
not the Bible alone
00:38:07.05\00:38:08.68
but the Bible and tradition.
00:38:08.72\00:38:10.35
He continued...
00:38:10.39\00:38:11.95
"We have experienced the
richness of sacramental life.
00:38:11.99\00:38:14.66
We have seen the logic
00:38:14.72\00:38:16.59
in having a solid
structure for priesthood
00:38:16.62\00:38:19.33
that keeps the
faith of the church
00:38:19.36\00:38:21.33
and passes it on from
one generation to the next. "
00:38:21.36\00:38:24.90
In other words, he's saying,
00:38:24.93\00:38:26.27
"I believe in apostolic
succession not only of Scripture
00:38:26.30\00:38:28.90
but also of oral tradition.
00:38:28.94\00:38:31.01
He continued,
00:38:31.04\00:38:32.37
"We have met on an
ethical and moral strength
00:38:32.41\00:38:35.48
and consistency
00:38:35.51\00:38:37.95
that dare to face up
to the general opinion,
00:38:37.98\00:38:41.22
and a kindness toward
the poor and the weak... "
00:38:41.25\00:38:44.45
so, notice...
00:38:44.49\00:38:46.39
"We have met an
ethical and moral strength
00:38:46.45\00:38:49.02
in the Catholic Church
00:38:49.06\00:38:50.39
and consistency that dare to
face up to the general opinion,
00:38:50.43\00:38:54.83
and a kindness toward
the poor and the weak.
00:38:54.86\00:38:57.03
And, last but not least,
00:38:57.07\00:38:58.77
we have come in contact
with the representatives
00:38:58.80\00:39:01.87
for millions of
charismatic Catholics
00:39:01.90\00:39:05.11
and we have seen
their living faith. "
00:39:05.14\00:39:08.28
We could go on describing
the overtures of the Papacy
00:39:08.34\00:39:12.35
and Protestants
towards one another.
00:39:12.41\00:39:15.05
We could speak, for
example, about Francis the First
00:39:15.08\00:39:19.12
visiting the church of the
Waldensians in Torre Pellice
00:39:19.15\00:39:23.73
the very Waldenses that
were persecuted mercilessly
00:39:23.76\00:39:28.30
by the Roman Catholic Church.
00:39:28.33\00:39:29.86
Now, recently, Francis
the First celebrated communion
00:39:29.90\00:39:36.77
or the Eucharist with
Protestants in Geneva...
00:39:36.81\00:39:41.61
the place where John Calvin
carried on the Reformation.
00:39:41.64\00:39:46.41
I want to read from
a notice that I found
00:39:46.48\00:39:51.62
regarding this particular
celebration of Communion.
00:39:51.65\00:39:56.52
"In a first...
since the Reformation era,
00:39:56.56\00:39:59.89
Protestants are
said to receive Communion
00:39:59.93\00:40:03.23
during a Catholic Mass...
00:40:03.26\00:40:05.47
this is...
Protestants at a Catholic Mass
00:40:05.50\00:40:08.87
at a historic cathedral
in Geneva, Switzerland,
00:40:08.90\00:40:12.54
John Calvin's adopted home.
00:40:12.57\00:40:15.41
Emanuel Fuchs, President of
the Protestant Church in Geneva,
00:40:15.44\00:40:20.72
and a Pastor in Saint Pierre
00:40:20.75\00:40:23.15
added that the
invitation indicates that
00:40:23.18\00:40:26.19
and now, his words are quoted,
00:40:26.22\00:40:28.32
"The climate in
Geneva is extremely favorable
00:40:28.36\00:40:32.03
and fruitful with the
Roman Catholic Church. "
00:40:32.06\00:40:35.70
You know, John
Calvin... so to speak
00:40:35.73\00:40:39.40
must be rolling in his
grave when this is taking place.
00:40:39.43\00:40:42.14
The article continues,
00:40:42.17\00:40:45.14
"We have made notable
progress in terms of Ecumenism
00:40:45.17\00:40:49.31
especially with the joint
declaration signed in 2017
00:40:49.34\00:40:53.45
which recognizes our
respective ministries.
00:40:53.48\00:40:56.72
As Pope Francis said,
00:40:56.75\00:40:59.79
'Ecumenism is
achieved by walking... '"
00:40:59.82\00:41:03.63
this is still
Emanuel who is speaking.
00:41:03.66\00:41:07.40
"As Pope Francis said,
00:41:07.43\00:41:09.33
'Ecumenism is
achieved by walking. '
00:41:09.36\00:41:11.40
We are trying to
walk together in the hope
00:41:11.43\00:41:14.00
that when we have
made enough progress,
00:41:14.04\00:41:16.60
the obstacles that seem
to us today insurmountable
00:41:16.64\00:41:20.18
will no longer be. "
00:41:20.21\00:41:22.98
The article continues saying,
00:41:23.04\00:41:25.01
"In addition to Castle
Church in Wittenberg, Germany,
00:41:25.08\00:41:29.45
where it is said
that Martin Luther
00:41:29.48\00:41:31.59
posted his 95
Theses to the door in 1517,
00:41:31.65\00:41:36.39
St. Pierre Reformed
Protestant Church in Geneva... "
00:41:36.42\00:41:40.16
that's Calvin's church...
00:41:40.20\00:41:41.53
"is considered one
of the most iconic sites
00:41:41.56\00:41:44.47
of the Protestant Reformation. "
00:41:44.53\00:41:46.53
Unbelievable Folks...
00:41:46.57\00:41:48.60
now, what is Satan's strategy?
00:41:48.64\00:41:51.31
Satan's strategy
is to attack the Bible
00:41:51.34\00:41:55.54
and Satan has attacked the
Bible in two different ways.
00:41:55.58\00:42:00.15
The reason why
Protestantism will end up
00:42:00.22\00:42:03.42
in the arms of the Papacy
00:42:03.45\00:42:04.79
is that it has
forsaken the Bible
00:42:04.82\00:42:07.22
as the absolute
standard of truth.
00:42:07.26\00:42:09.59
It has become liberal
or politically correct
00:42:09.62\00:42:13.56
practicing false charity.
00:42:13.60\00:42:15.83
Many, in Protestantism,
tolerate open sins
00:42:15.86\00:42:19.77
such as Gay marriage...
00:42:19.80\00:42:21.74
Gender confusion...
00:42:21.77\00:42:23.71
Gay clergy.
00:42:23.74\00:42:25.07
Post-modern thinking has
infiltrated Protestantism
00:42:25.11\00:42:28.98
like an infectious disease
00:42:29.01\00:42:30.91
and the consequence
has been disastrous.
00:42:30.95\00:42:33.95
Now, Satan has attacked the
Bible in two different ways.
00:42:33.98\00:42:37.19
During the period
of Papal dominion...
00:42:37.22\00:42:39.92
during the 1260 years...
00:42:39.95\00:42:41.76
Satan hid the
Bible from the people...
00:42:41.82\00:42:45.66
kept it in a language
that they could not read
00:42:45.69\00:42:47.96
and forbade its reading.
00:42:48.00\00:42:49.83
But in these days,
00:42:49.86\00:42:51.77
where there is education
and great enlightenment,
00:42:51.80\00:42:55.47
he uses a different strategy.
00:42:55.50\00:42:57.71
I'm going to
read now a statement
00:42:57.74\00:42:59.57
that we find in
Great Controversy page 51.
00:42:59.61\00:43:02.58
It says, "Satan knew well
00:43:02.61\00:43:06.01
that the Holy
Scriptures would enable men
00:43:06.05\00:43:09.25
to discern his deceptions
and withstand his power.
00:43:09.28\00:43:12.92
It was by the word that
even the Savior of the world
00:43:12.95\00:43:16.79
had resisted his attacks.
00:43:16.83\00:43:18.69
At every assault,
00:43:18.73\00:43:20.43
Christ presented the
shield of eternal truth,
00:43:20.46\00:43:22.76
saying, 'It is written. '
00:43:22.80\00:43:24.83
To every
suggestion of the adversary,
00:43:24.87\00:43:27.60
He opposed the wisdom
and power of the world.
00:43:27.64\00:43:30.61
In order for Satan to
maintain his sway over men,
00:43:30.64\00:43:33.98
and establish the authority
of the Papal usurper... "
00:43:34.01\00:43:37.05
now she's
speaking about the past...
00:43:37.08\00:43:38.78
he must keep them in
ignorance of the Scriptures.
00:43:38.81\00:43:42.02
The Bible would exalt God
00:43:42.05\00:43:44.39
and place finite men
in their true position;
00:43:44.42\00:43:47.66
therefore its sacred truths must
be concealed and suppressed. "
00:43:47.69\00:43:52.19
Because if
people read the Bible,
00:43:52.23\00:43:53.56
they would see very clearly
that God deserves our praise
00:43:53.60\00:43:59.00
and our respect... not man...
00:43:59.03\00:44:01.07
the statement continues...
00:44:01.10\00:44:03.04
"For hundreds of years
00:44:03.10\00:44:04.97
the circulation of
the Bible was prohibited.
00:44:05.01\00:44:08.54
The people were
forbidden to read it
00:44:08.58\00:44:10.85
or to have it in their houses,
00:44:10.88\00:44:12.48
and unprincipled
priests and prelates
00:44:12.51\00:44:15.62
interpreted its teachings
to sustain their pretensions.
00:44:15.65\00:44:19.45
Thus the Pope came to be
almost universally acknowledged
00:44:19.49\00:44:23.63
as the
vicegerent of God on earth,
00:44:23.66\00:44:26.19
endowed with
authority over church and state.
00:44:26.23\00:44:29.23
The detector of
error... " that is the Bible...
00:44:29.26\00:44:31.93
"having been removed,
00:44:31.97\00:44:33.44
Satan worked
according to his will. "
00:44:33.47\00:44:36.91
So, Satan's first strategy
was to hide the Bible...
00:44:36.97\00:44:42.24
forbid the Bible...
00:44:42.28\00:44:43.61
keep it in a language
that people did not understand.
00:44:43.65\00:44:46.35
That way... people would be
ignorant of its doctrines...
00:44:46.38\00:44:49.48
they would be ignorant of the
life that God wants us to live
00:44:49.52\00:44:52.55
and of the true doctrines
that He wanted us to believe.
00:44:52.59\00:44:56.02
But then, Satan has another
strategy for this day and age
00:44:56.06\00:44:59.43
because Satan can no
longer forbid the Bible
00:44:59.46\00:45:02.36
in this enlightened society.
00:45:02.40\00:45:04.93
Satan can now no
longer keep it in a language
00:45:04.97\00:45:07.84
that people can't read,
00:45:07.87\00:45:09.20
so he has to change his strategy
00:45:09.24\00:45:11.14
in order for people not
to believe the Bible message
00:45:11.17\00:45:14.61
and what is his method now?
00:45:14.64\00:45:16.31
In the book Great
Controversy page 572,
00:45:16.34\00:45:20.08
Ellen White wrote,
00:45:20.12\00:45:21.45
"A day of great
intellectual darkness
00:45:21.48\00:45:24.32
has been shown to be favorable
00:45:24.35\00:45:26.45
to the success of the Papacy. "
00:45:26.49\00:45:28.52
That's the past...
during Papal dominion.
00:45:28.56\00:45:30.53
"It will yet be
demonstrated... "
00:45:30.56\00:45:32.96
now, here comes
the second strategy...
00:45:32.99\00:45:34.33
"It will yet be demonstrated
00:45:34.36\00:45:36.53
that a day of great intellectual
light is equally favorable
00:45:36.56\00:45:41.80
for its success.
00:45:41.84\00:45:43.84
In past ages... "
00:45:43.87\00:45:45.77
now she refers to what was
done with the Bible in the past.
00:45:45.84\00:45:48.68
"In past ages,
00:45:48.71\00:45:50.25
when men were without God's Word
00:45:50.28\00:45:52.71
and without the
knowledge of the truth,
00:45:52.75\00:45:55.08
their eyes were blindfolded,
00:45:55.12\00:45:57.79
and thousands were ensnared,
00:45:57.82\00:46:00.46
not seeing the net
spread for their feet. "
00:46:00.49\00:46:03.53
Now she goes to this generation.
00:46:03.56\00:46:05.19
"In this generation
00:46:05.23\00:46:07.13
there are many
whose eyes become dazzled
00:46:07.16\00:46:10.07
by the glare of
human speculations,
00:46:10.13\00:46:13.13
'science falsely so called;'
00:46:13.20\00:46:15.64
they discern not the net,
00:46:15.67\00:46:18.01
and walk into it as
readily as if blindfolded.
00:46:18.04\00:46:22.51
On screen...
00:46:22.54\00:47:06.42
I hope you're
understanding what is happening.
00:47:06.45\00:47:09.19
Satan, today, does
not forbid the Bible...
00:47:09.22\00:47:11.86
he undermines the authority
and trustworthiness of the Bible
00:47:11.89\00:47:16.60
in the minds of people.
00:47:16.63\00:47:18.20
That's the reason why
they say, "Well, you know...
00:47:18.23\00:47:20.84
we must believe Evolution
instead of Creation... "
00:47:20.87\00:47:23.44
that's why they
say, "Well, the flood...
00:47:23.47\00:47:25.47
that was some local
flood in Mesopotamia...
00:47:25.51\00:47:27.48
it wasn't a global flood... "
00:47:27.51\00:47:28.84
They say, "Well, it doesn't
matter what gender you believe,
00:47:28.88\00:47:31.25
we know that God said
that there were two genders
00:47:31.28\00:47:33.28
at the beginning but we
can't trust that record. "
00:47:33.31\00:47:35.45
They say, "Well, you
know, Gay marriage is fine
00:47:35.48\00:47:37.65
because, you know,
we know the Bible says
00:47:37.72\00:47:39.75
that a man and a
woman were married by God,
00:47:39.79\00:47:41.79
but who can trust that story?"
00:47:41.82\00:47:43.32
So, Satan can do as much
00:47:43.36\00:47:45.66
by undermining the
authority of the Bible
00:47:45.69\00:47:48.10
as he can do by
forbidding the Bible
00:47:48.13\00:47:50.53
and keeping it in a language
that people cannot understand.
00:47:50.57\00:47:54.94
Now, there's a fifth point that
we need to take into account
00:47:54.97\00:47:59.31
that will bring Protestants
and Catholics together.
00:47:59.34\00:48:03.35
The Protestant
Reformers unanimously
00:48:03.38\00:48:07.65
believed that the Papacy
00:48:07.68\00:48:09.58
was the promised
Antichrist of Scripture.
00:48:09.62\00:48:12.15
They believe that the
Harlot of Revelation 17
00:48:12.19\00:48:14.69
was the Roman Catholic Papacy.
00:48:14.72\00:48:16.52
They believed
that the Man of Sin
00:48:16.56\00:48:18.26
in 2nd
Thessalonians 2 was the Papacy.
00:48:18.29\00:48:20.86
Many of them believed that the
Little Horn of Daniel chapter 7
00:48:20.90\00:48:24.63
was a symbol of the Papacy.
00:48:24.67\00:48:26.53
They believed that in 1st John
00:48:26.57\00:48:28.54
the Antichrist
that's referred to
00:48:28.57\00:48:30.81
was a
representation of the Papacy.
00:48:30.84\00:48:33.07
In other words,
all of these prophecies
00:48:33.11\00:48:35.28
they believed to represent
the Roman Catholic Papacy.
00:48:35.31\00:48:39.08
But after the
Protestant Reformation,
00:48:39.11\00:48:42.22
the Council of Trent took
issue with all of the doctrines
00:48:42.25\00:48:46.35
that were being
taught by the Protestants.
00:48:46.39\00:48:47.96
And the Council of Trent
00:48:47.99\00:48:49.76
actually, what they did, was
reaffirm Roman Catholic doctrine
00:48:49.79\00:48:54.60
as against the
Protestant doctrines.
00:48:54.63\00:48:57.10
That wasn't going
to be very successful.
00:48:57.13\00:49:00.37
So, two Roman
Catholic scholars...
00:49:00.40\00:49:03.34
one by the name
of Luis de Alcazar
00:49:03.37\00:49:05.67
and the other
one... Francisco Ribera
00:49:05.71\00:49:08.14
established two forms
of interpretive prophecy
00:49:08.18\00:49:11.68
that would deflect the finger
that pointed toward the Papacy
00:49:11.71\00:49:16.25
from this System of the Papacy.
00:49:16.28\00:49:20.26
Luis de Alcazar established
what is known as Preterism.
00:49:20.29\00:49:24.76
The idea that the Antichrist
prophecies that were spoken of,
00:49:24.79\00:49:29.93
the Little Horn of Daniel 7
00:49:29.96\00:49:31.30
represented an individual
called Antiochus Epiphanes
00:49:31.33\00:49:34.27
who lived 165
years before Christ.
00:49:34.30\00:49:37.87
That's the
Little Horn of Daniel 7.
00:49:37.91\00:49:39.57
And as far as the beast
of Revelation chapter 13,
00:49:39.61\00:49:42.41
well, you know, the
beast of Revelation 13
00:49:42.44\00:49:44.68
was probably Nero
00:49:44.71\00:49:46.05
because there was this
tradition that Nero was killed
00:49:46.08\00:49:48.25
and then, you know,
00:49:48.28\00:49:49.62
he was going to
resurrect to life again.
00:49:49.65\00:49:51.49
So, the Antichrist
arose in the distant past...
00:49:51.52\00:49:56.02
it has nothing
to do with us today.
00:49:56.06\00:49:57.86
By the way, this is the
exact interpretation of prophecy
00:49:57.89\00:50:01.43
that has been embraced by
liberal Protestant churches...
00:50:01.46\00:50:04.97
the great mainline churches.
00:50:05.00\00:50:06.50
If you find the word
"United" attached to the church,
00:50:06.53\00:50:10.74
most likely, they
believe in Preterism.
00:50:10.77\00:50:13.98
However, another
Roman Catholic Scholar
00:50:14.01\00:50:17.21
by the name of
Francisco Ribera...
00:50:17.25\00:50:18.75
both of these were Spaniards...
00:50:18.78\00:50:20.22
established another rival
system of interpreting prophecy.
00:50:20.25\00:50:23.79
It's known as Futurism.
00:50:23.82\00:50:25.65
His idea was...
no, no, no, no...
00:50:25.72\00:50:27.86
the Antichrist hasn't risen yet.
00:50:27.89\00:50:29.99
The Antichrist is going
to rise in the future...
00:50:30.03\00:50:32.89
in a re-built Jerusalem
temple, he's going to sit.
00:50:32.93\00:50:36.06
So, Protestants...
Conservative Protestants...
00:50:36.10\00:50:39.23
Charismatic Protestants...
00:50:39.27\00:50:41.50
Evangelicals... many of them
00:50:41.54\00:50:43.71
embraced the idea
00:50:43.77\00:50:45.64
that the
Antichrist has not come yet.
00:50:45.67\00:50:47.68
He's going to
arise in the future.
00:50:47.74\00:50:49.71
And the theory is...
00:50:49.74\00:50:51.41
there's going to be a
rapture of the church...
00:50:51.45\00:50:53.08
and then, after the rapture,
00:50:53.18\00:50:54.75
a nasty individual
is going to appear...
00:50:54.78\00:50:57.59
first three and half
years, he's not really nasty...
00:50:57.62\00:51:00.06
he behaves pretty
well towards the Jews
00:51:00.09\00:51:02.16
but then, after the
first three and a half years...
00:51:02.22\00:51:04.43
in the middle of
the great tribulation...
00:51:04.49\00:51:06.06
when the church is
already raptured to heaven,
00:51:06.09\00:51:09.10
then he's going to be
seen as the Antichrist.
00:51:09.13\00:51:12.07
He's going to build this
great big statue of himself...
00:51:12.13\00:51:14.80
command everybody to
worship the statue...
00:51:14.84\00:51:17.97
he is going to put a
tattoo on the right hand
00:51:18.01\00:51:21.11
or on the
foreheads of his followers
00:51:21.14\00:51:24.15
and whoever does
not worship this image
00:51:24.18\00:51:26.58
and does not receive
the Mark of the Beast,
00:51:26.61\00:51:28.98
will not be able to buy or sell
00:51:29.02\00:51:31.42
or... even
worse... will be killed.
00:51:31.45\00:51:33.79
So, where are Protestants today
looking for the fulfillment
00:51:33.82\00:51:38.46
of the Antichrist prophecies?
00:51:38.49\00:51:40.00
They are looking
to the distant past
00:51:40.03\00:51:42.83
and they are
saying, "These prophecies
00:51:42.86\00:51:45.80
were fulfilled
over 2,000 years ago
00:51:45.83\00:51:48.74
with Antiochus Epiphanes.
00:51:48.77\00:51:50.47
They have nothing to
do with current events. "
00:51:50.51\00:51:53.27
And as far as
Conservative Protestants...
00:51:53.31\00:51:55.51
"Well, you know, basically
00:51:55.54\00:51:58.18
the Antichrist will rise
after the church is gone...
00:51:58.21\00:52:00.95
after the Rapture...
00:52:00.98\00:52:02.32
and it's going to
happen in the Middle East.
00:52:02.35\00:52:04.19
So, we don't have
to worry about that
00:52:04.22\00:52:06.86
because that's going to
take place after we're gone. "
00:52:06.89\00:52:09.22
So, what has Satan done?
00:52:09.26\00:52:11.19
He has shifted the traditional
Protestant interpretation
00:52:11.23\00:52:16.93
of the Reformers
00:52:16.97\00:52:18.30
from showing that the
Papacy is the Antichrist
00:52:18.33\00:52:21.94
to the past...
Antiochus Epiphanes
00:52:21.97\00:52:25.21
or to a nasty
individual in the future.
00:52:25.24\00:52:27.68
Not only that,
00:52:27.74\00:52:29.31
but we find in Revelation
chapter 13 and verses 11 to 18,
00:52:29.34\00:52:33.15
that the United States
will play a very important role
00:52:33.18\00:52:36.99
in end-time prophecy.
00:52:37.02\00:52:38.35
That's the beast
that rises from the earth.
00:52:38.39\00:52:40.49
He has two horns like a lamb...
00:52:40.52\00:52:42.36
that is... he has
some Christ-like appearance
00:52:42.39\00:52:45.33
but he speaks like a dragon.
00:52:45.36\00:52:47.10
Now, we don't have time
to get into a full exposition
00:52:47.13\00:52:49.90
of this prophecy
00:52:49.93\00:52:51.40
but this beast represents
the United States of America.
00:52:51.43\00:52:54.00
And so, as you
read Revelation 13,
00:52:54.04\00:52:56.91
you have the beast
that rises from the sea...
00:52:56.94\00:52:59.24
clearly a
symbol of the Papacy...
00:52:59.27\00:53:01.68
then, you have the
beast that rises from earth...
00:53:01.71\00:53:04.35
clearly a symbol of the
United States of America.
00:53:04.38\00:53:06.95
Protestantism can't see it.
00:53:07.02\00:53:09.45
Catholicism can't see it
00:53:09.48\00:53:11.85
because they're
looking to the future
00:53:11.89\00:53:14.39
or to the past
00:53:14.42\00:53:15.76
for the Antichrist
prophecy to be fulfilled
00:53:15.79\00:53:17.99
and they are not looking in Rome
00:53:18.06\00:53:21.56
and in the United States.
00:53:21.60\00:53:23.43
This makes it much easier for
Protestants to join Catholics
00:53:23.47\00:53:27.20
because if Protestants
don't believe that the Papacy
00:53:27.24\00:53:29.74
is the Antichrist,
00:53:29.77\00:53:31.27
then there's
really no big obstacle
00:53:31.31\00:53:32.87
for Protestants to
unite with Roman Catholics.
00:53:32.91\00:53:36.04
Now, in this Series,
we have been talking about
00:53:36.08\00:53:39.11
Sabbath and Sunday.
00:53:39.18\00:53:40.75
Really, in the
book of Revelation,
00:53:40.78\00:53:43.69
the Seal of God
is His holy Sabbath
00:53:43.72\00:53:46.25
and Sunday is the
Mark of the Beast.
00:53:46.29\00:53:48.76
That is... when people
realize that the seventh day
00:53:48.79\00:53:53.36
is the Sabbath
00:53:53.40\00:53:54.73
and they know that that's true,
00:53:54.76\00:53:56.83
but they insist on
still keeping Sunday
00:53:56.87\00:53:59.43
in harmony with tradition,
00:53:59.47\00:54:00.80
at that time, individuals will
receive the Mark of the Beast.
00:54:00.84\00:54:05.47
Yet, those who are
willing to abide by God's Word,
00:54:05.51\00:54:09.81
keep the seventh-day Sabbath,
00:54:09.84\00:54:11.61
even at the risk of not
being able to buy or sell...
00:54:11.65\00:54:14.48
even at the risk of
losing their lives...
00:54:14.52\00:54:17.02
they will
receive the Seal of God
00:54:17.09\00:54:19.35
to go into the final conflict.
00:54:19.39\00:54:21.62
Now, Great
Controversy, 565 and 566
00:54:21.66\00:54:25.56
speaks about the
desire of the Papacy
00:54:25.59\00:54:29.43
to ascend to the
throne of the world again.
00:54:29.46\00:54:32.03
Ellen White wrote,
00:54:32.07\00:54:33.40
on screen...
00:54:33.44\00:55:32.86
When Ellen White refers to a
fierce and determined conflict
00:55:32.89\00:55:36.93
to regain the
throne of the world,
00:55:36.97\00:55:38.90
she's not talking
about a military conflict,
00:55:38.93\00:55:41.47
she's talking about the
Papacy uniting with Protestants
00:55:41.50\00:55:46.94
and trying to get the
civil powers of the world
00:55:46.98\00:55:50.48
to implement their agenda.
00:55:50.55\00:55:52.71
Ellen White gave
the best description
00:55:52.75\00:55:55.35
that I have ever
read on the Papacy.
00:55:55.38\00:55:57.92
I would like to read that
now as we bring this to a close.
00:55:57.95\00:56:01.59
Great Controversy page 571,
00:56:01.62\00:56:04.49
"It is part of her policy... "
00:56:04.53\00:56:07.40
that is... of
the Papacy's policy
00:56:07.43\00:56:09.30
to assume the character
00:56:09.33\00:56:11.30
which will best
accomplish her purpose;
00:56:11.33\00:56:14.00
but beneath the variable
appearance of the chameleon
00:56:14.04\00:56:18.67
she conceals the invariable
venom of the serpent. "
00:56:18.71\00:56:23.38
Do you know what a chameleon is?
00:56:23.41\00:56:26.01
A chameleon is a
lizard that changes colors
00:56:26.05\00:56:28.68
depending on the
environment where it is.
00:56:28.72\00:56:30.69
You know, if it's
on a green environment,
00:56:30.72\00:56:33.25
it looks green.
00:56:33.29\00:56:34.62
If it's on a brown
environment, it looks brown.
00:56:34.66\00:56:37.13
It changes colors
to camouflage itself.
00:56:37.16\00:56:41.10
The Roman Catholic
Papacy is the Antichrist...
00:56:41.13\00:56:44.10
camouflaged... so that
people really can't see it.
00:56:44.13\00:56:47.04
"Once again, it is a part of our
policy to assume the character
00:56:47.07\00:56:50.71
which will best
accomplish our purpose
00:56:50.74\00:56:52.71
but beneath the variable
appearance of the chameleon,
00:56:52.77\00:56:56.14
she conceals the invariable
venom of the serpent. "
00:56:56.18\00:56:59.55
You might be
saying, "Pastor Bohr,
00:56:59.58\00:57:02.28
you're crazy when you
say that Sabbath and Sunday
00:57:02.45\00:57:04.49
is going to be the big
issue at the end of time.
00:57:04.52\00:57:06.52
That's what we've
studied in this Series.
00:57:06.55\00:57:08.46
Jesus once said
to His disciples,
00:57:08.49\00:57:11.66
"Behold, I have
told you this beforehand
00:57:11.69\00:57:14.43
that when it
occurs, you might believe. "
00:57:14.46\00:57:17.20
Now, I don't know if
it will be in my lifetime,
00:57:17.23\00:57:19.80
but what we have
studied in this Seminar
00:57:19.83\00:57:22.94
will take place
in the United States
00:57:22.97\00:57:26.04
and in the world
00:57:26.07\00:57:27.41
and when it transpires,
00:57:27.44\00:57:29.04
if you are
living... you will say,
00:57:29.08\00:57:31.48
"Certainly, Pastor Bohr
when he preached these things
00:57:31.51\00:57:35.65
from the Word of
God... was right. "
00:57:35.68\00:57:38.32
And even more
importantly than being right,
00:57:38.35\00:57:41.16
is... choosing to
be on the right side
00:57:41.19\00:57:44.89
in this final controversy...
00:57:44.93\00:57:46.63
that we will
choose the Seal of God
00:57:46.66\00:57:48.90
instead of the
Mark of the Beast...
00:57:48.93\00:57:50.27
that we will choose to
live by every word that proceeds
00:57:50.30\00:57:53.87
out of the mouth of God
00:57:53.90\00:57:55.24
and not by the
traditions of man...
00:57:55.27\00:57:57.51
this will be the great
test that we will have to face.
00:57:57.54\00:58:02.14
God bless you.
00:58:02.18\00:58:03.55