Hi, I'm Dr. Kim
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and welcome to Live to be Well.
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How many times have we seen
on Social Media, television,
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children who
are taken by someone
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and come to find
out... it's a parent.
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Well, my guest
today is here to share
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some of the concerns
that they went through
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and the experience
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at the time, she was
like six... seven... years old
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and she was taken by her father.
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I want to talk
about: No More Fears
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and I want to welcome my
guest, Rhiana and Sherese,
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mother and daughter, "Hi. "
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Hi.
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Well, welcome
to Live to be Well,
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thank you for coming on.
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You're welcome.
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How are you doing little one?
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I'm good.
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Well, listen now, let's
talk about how you met Dr. Kim.
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Mom called looking
for a therapist for you
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you know, do you
think it's strange
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for little people
to have a therapist?
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No, because kids can
go through a lot too.
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Oh yes, so, let's talk
about what you went through
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that... the reason
why mom made the call,
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can you tell us
about what happened
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when you first came to see me.
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Well, my mom didn't want my
dad to know that we have moved
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because of some things
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and then, when I told him...
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but I didn't tell
him where we moved
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and then when I
was in second grade,
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he picked me up from
school which was surprising
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and then I went with him
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and then he had said
that I got to call your mama
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and tell her
that... that I got you
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and then she needs to
tell me where you're at
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because... so I
could drop you off.
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So, at that point I
was a little nervous
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because of what
my mama had told me.
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So, then we had went
to the gas station...
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he bought me snacks
and we went to Ballou.
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Then he took me to
the park, we played
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and then we went
to the River Walk
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and stood by the water.
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Then, after that, it
was like eight or seven...
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and we went to go get some food,
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so, when we went
to get some food,
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we went back to the store and
then he let me get some snacks
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so then we went
behind an abandoned store
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and he told me
we could sleep there
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and we slept in a car.
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So then, he had said, "I
got something to tell you"
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and I had said, "I
got something to tell you"
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so then he said that I need to
go drop you off with your mama
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and then, I was like,
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"That's exactly what
I was about to say. "
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And then, that's what happened.
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And then he took you back home.
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So, in your mind,
did you think your father
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was going to take you
away from your mother?
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No, because if I
asked him to bring me back,
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he would have done it.
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But you knew something was wrong
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because you were behind that...
it was an abandoned building?
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Yeah.
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Okay, what did
your mother tell you,
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I mean, when you
went with your father,
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did she ever give
you some type of code
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or to call her if
something went wrong?
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Did you have a cell phone?
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No.
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Could you use your
father's cell phone?
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Yeah.
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Did you get a chance to
talk to your mother that day?
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No.
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Did you ask him
to call your mother?
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He said he was going
to talk to her, so...
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But so, you believed
that but it never happened.
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I... yeah.
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Okay.
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So, do you feel that your father
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would have put
you in a bad situation
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by allowing you to sleep
there behind that building
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because that would
have been pretty dangerous.
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Um... yeah.
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Because you were going
to be sleeping in the car.
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Yeah.
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Okay, had you ever slept
in the car overnight before?
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No, unless I was traveling.
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Okay, unless you were traveling.
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Yeah.
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My goodness, you do know
how to give the right answer,
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now, I've got to come up with
some good questions here for you
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all right, so mom, what
was going through your mind
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when this situation took place?
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Pause.
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Um, I was in total frantic mode
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because I was going
through my normal routine
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got off of work,
went to Latchkey...
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get to the Latchkey room like,
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"Okay, where's Rhiana?"
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And they're like, "She's gone. "
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And it was the kids...
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when I asked, "Who
did she leave with?"
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And they described him.
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And going out of the school...
talking to the staff...
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everyone said,
"They had a feeling"
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you know, where
something was "off"
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but because she was with him
and was freely going with him,
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no one stopped them.
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So, someone had
tried to say, "Hey... "
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And he brushed it off...
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so it was like, "I
knew something was wrong"
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was all their responses,
so he had been blocked,
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so, I went into my
blocked messages in my phone
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and then, that's when
I found out he had her,
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he did leave the voice mail.
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What he was doing
was blackmailing me
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and holding her hostage...
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for me to tell
him where we live.
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What?
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And I refused to
tell him where we live
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which is the point of,
when she was stating...
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he was saying to
her, "Where do you live?
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Where we moved...
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He had been in and out...
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six months here...
three months there...
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so,
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I didn't feel like he
needed to know where we lived
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at that point because he
had actually just did something
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in another relationship
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and I didn't
feel that it was safe
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and what he did was wrong
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so, for my own security,
I moved from where we was at
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to not letting him
be known where we were
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but that day he did tell me,
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"Well, you ain't
going to get her back. "
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Kim: He told you that.
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Yeah, "If you don't
tell me where you live,
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then I'm not taking her
to anybody else's house. "
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So, that was the situation.
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So, it was either
tell him where I live
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or stand my ground,
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I called the police...
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the police can't do anything
when you just have a normal...
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General Order...
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like child support order,
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the stipulations
in the General Order
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just says...
"stipulated" or "time"
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or not stipulated...
just a general statement
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basically an
agreement between parents.
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So the police stated...
they couldn't do anything
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until after he had
taken her for over 24 hours.
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Hmmm...
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So, even... wherever he had
her whether it was unsafe or not
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so, he did have her in a car,
making several threats to me
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you know, he would
take her, kill me...
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and let my mama raise her and...
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Kim: He threated to kill you...
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Yeah... yeah...
so, the very next...
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he did eventually take
her to my mother's house
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after about 10:30...
11 o'clock that night
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but the threats that
were made over the phone
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and what he would do and...
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she says, she was
okay sleeping in the car
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and I bet he was
having a breakdown...
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I was at home by myself...
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one of my friends raced
over and came with me...
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I didn't feel like I
had no breath in my body,
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but it was at that
point that I just knew that...
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that my peace was where I live
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and I was not going to
let him know where I lived at
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because I know that he loved her
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so I knew that he was not
going to physically harm her,
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you know,
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so determining the
better of two evils...
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my peace is my home...
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and I have
refused to give that up.
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Kim: And to this day he
doesn't know where you live.
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He does not know where
we are at... to this day...
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So, Rhiana, did he ever
ask you where did you live...
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did he try to get that
information out of you?
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Um, a couple of
times, yeah, but one day...
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like when... it was
like the end of third grade,
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we were leaving... then it
was like this car like his car
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and then it was rolling
down and it just stopped
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so, I was kind of worried
like, was that him or something.
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Hmmm... but was it?
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I don't know.
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No, we don't know,
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so, you've seen your
father since that time.
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Um, yes.
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And there's been no problems,
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have you been
left alone with him?
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Yeah, but my mom was upstairs.
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I mean... so you
were somewhere else,
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not at your home
but somewhere else.
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Yeah, when I was in Florida,
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me and my sister
were talking to him.
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Okay, but, in
Detroit, have you...
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have you seen
him over the last...
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Well, at Christmas.
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At Christmas... were
you left alone with him?
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Yes.
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And nothing happened.
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Shaking her head...
00:09:14.98\00:09:16.32
Did he ask you,
"Where do you live Rhiana,
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where do you live?" Rhiana: No.
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Kim: All right, but you
knew and mommy had told you,
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"Don't ever tell
him where we live. "
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Yes.
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Okay... so, how did... is he...
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was he on the list to
take her out of school?
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Originally, yes, but
the school stated that
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when they went
through the new school year,
00:09:34.24\00:09:36.97
when I had removed
him of off the list,
00:09:37.01\00:09:39.67
that something happened
with their computer systems
00:09:39.71\00:09:44.11
so it had converted back to all
the children's original files.
00:09:44.15\00:09:48.72
No! so his name to
release was on that old System.
00:09:48.75\00:09:54.32
Mom: Right. Kim: Okay.
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Mom: Because I
still... from the beginning...
00:09:55.72\00:09:58.16
I still had sole
guardianship of her.
00:09:58.19\00:10:01.03
But he has rights
as a parent to see her
00:10:01.06\00:10:03.93
so with the school...
00:10:03.97\00:10:05.80
"No, you can't
pick up and drop off. "
00:10:05.83\00:10:08.04
So you have the physical custody
but he has visitation rights.
00:10:08.07\00:10:11.64
Originally... now, no...
00:10:11.67\00:10:14.18
now no... now, the court
order is: Supervised Visitation.
00:10:14.21\00:10:18.41
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:10:18.45\00:10:19.78
At a Court approved agency.
00:10:19.81\00:10:23.55
I see... I see.
00:10:23.59\00:10:24.92
So, let me ask
you, what is it like...
00:10:24.95\00:10:28.39
we've had mother
and son raising sons,
00:10:28.42\00:10:31.06
what is it like
being a single mom?
00:10:31.09\00:10:33.73
You know, you... born
and raised in Detroit?
00:10:33.76\00:10:36.06
Yes.
00:10:36.10\00:10:37.43
So, what is it
like raising Rhiana
00:10:37.47\00:10:40.84
and I have the perspective
because I'm her therapist,
00:10:40.87\00:10:44.57
yes... and we've had some
very straight talks, all right,
00:10:44.61\00:10:48.31
before you answer that question,
00:10:48.34\00:10:50.38
what was one of your
mama's main concerns...
00:10:50.41\00:10:53.25
your mother's concern,
00:10:53.28\00:10:54.62
when she brought
you into Counseling
00:10:54.65\00:10:56.38
after the "father
incident," you know,
00:10:56.45\00:10:58.45
what were some of
the concerns she had?
00:10:58.49\00:11:00.46
Sneaking and lying.
00:11:00.49\00:11:02.06
Sneaking and
lying... sneaking what?
00:11:02.09\00:11:05.16
Candy.
00:11:05.19\00:11:06.83
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:06.86\00:11:08.20
Food.
00:11:08.23\00:11:09.56
Food but why... don't be looking
at me like, "food" like, okay
00:11:09.60\00:11:11.93
all right, "Food" all right,
00:11:11.97\00:11:14.37
and lying... why would you lie?
00:11:14.40\00:11:16.60
Because I thought I
would just get in trouble.
00:11:16.64\00:11:20.81
Did you tell her the truth?
00:11:20.84\00:11:22.24
So, it's better
just to tell a lie
00:11:22.28\00:11:24.25
well, you know better now
00:11:24.28\00:11:25.61
that lying is not good,
it just makes things worse
00:11:25.65\00:11:29.65
all right, what about
cleaning up that room?
00:11:29.68\00:11:32.55
Um, I would just... when my mama
told me to clean up my room,
00:11:32.59\00:11:37.79
I just never do it
00:11:37.83\00:11:39.66
and I just start
it and never finish it
00:11:39.69\00:11:43.40
then, I just go to sleep.
00:11:43.43\00:11:45.37
So, what was
that word we learned
00:11:45.40\00:11:47.24
in our therapy
session this past week?
00:11:47.27\00:11:50.34
Po... kay... pro...
pro... ca... cation...
00:11:50.37\00:11:53.41
Procrastination.
00:11:53.44\00:11:55.01
Procrastination...
00:11:55.04\00:11:56.41
Procrastination...
00:11:56.44\00:11:57.78
Procrastination.
00:11:57.81\00:11:59.15
And what does
"Procrastination" mean?
00:11:59.18\00:12:01.12
To never say...
00:12:01.15\00:12:02.98
you go keep doing
it and do it then.
00:12:03.02\00:12:05.39
And it never gets what?
00:12:05.42\00:12:06.79
Done.
00:12:06.82\00:12:08.16
Never gets done... you
keep putting it off, you know,
00:12:08.19\00:12:10.16
and how many times did
mommy say, "Rhiana lazy...
00:12:10.19\00:12:12.49
Rhiana lazy... Dr. Logan, I
need her to have her sessions"
00:12:12.53\00:12:17.43
all right.
00:12:17.47\00:12:18.83
And so, working with you,
00:12:18.87\00:12:22.54
I've seen you have high
moments... low moments...
00:12:22.57\00:12:25.84
and you and I have
gone toe-to-toe, haven't we?
00:12:25.87\00:12:29.11
And you knew you did not want
to make Dr. Logan upset, right?
00:12:29.14\00:12:32.71
So, I appreciate it
because you went home
00:12:32.78\00:12:35.48
Sunday... I saw you... Sunday,
00:12:35.52\00:12:37.52
you know, for a therapy session,
00:12:37.55\00:12:39.42
you went home
and you cleaned up.
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.26
Now, you recently came from
somewhere, where did you go?
00:12:41.29\00:12:44.53
To Florida.
00:12:44.56\00:12:46.06
You went to Florida...
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.43
and mom came home
and your room was a mess
00:12:47.46\00:12:50.57
but she still let
you go what... what...
00:12:50.63\00:12:53.17
isn't that a
great mom? Rhiana: Yes.
00:12:53.20\00:12:55.67
But you think mom's going to
continue to let you do things
00:12:55.70\00:13:00.78
if you don't obey her?
00:13:00.81\00:13:02.14
Rhiana: No. Kim: No...
00:13:02.18\00:13:03.51
and do you think it
pleases God? Rhiana: No.
00:13:03.55\00:13:06.08
And you and I... we
talk a lot about the Lord
00:13:06.11\00:13:08.82
and what the Lord
expects of our children,
00:13:08.85\00:13:11.55
"Suffer the little children"
00:13:11.59\00:13:13.15
I have a Scripture for you,
00:13:13.19\00:13:14.69
"For He has not given
me the spirit of fear,
00:13:14.72\00:13:18.19
but of love, power
and a sound mind. "
00:13:18.23\00:13:21.13
2nd Timothy 1:7.
00:13:21.16\00:13:23.00
God does not want
you to live in fear.
00:13:23.03\00:13:25.43
He doesn't want you
to look down the block
00:13:25.47\00:13:27.87
or worry about
someone taking you
00:13:27.90\00:13:29.40
but He does want you
to have a sound mind.
00:13:29.47\00:13:32.24
Can you tell me what it
means to have a sound mind?
00:13:32.27\00:13:34.51
No.
00:13:34.54\00:13:36.44
Okay, so God
gives you a good mind,
00:13:36.48\00:13:39.05
that means He wants
you to make good decisions,
00:13:39.11\00:13:42.18
so, a "sound mind" means
you're not all over the place
00:13:42.22\00:13:45.89
all right, some people will say,
00:13:45.92\00:13:47.72
"I'm not functioning... "
00:13:47.79\00:13:49.66
some people will say,
00:13:49.69\00:13:51.49
"Well, you're crazy
to be going to therapy. "
00:13:51.53\00:13:53.66
Do you think it's
crazy to go to the therapist?
00:13:53.70\00:13:55.76
No.
00:13:55.80\00:13:57.27
No, because... what good...
what is my role in your life?
00:13:57.30\00:14:01.20
To make me better in life.
00:14:01.24\00:14:03.91
Oooh, I like that answer...
00:14:03.94\00:14:06.54
I'll just get a blurb
over the couch, all right.
00:14:06.57\00:14:09.51
To make you better
but I can't do it...
00:14:09.54\00:14:12.18
I'm just a vessel for the Lord,
it's between you and the Lord
00:14:12.21\00:14:17.05
you have to
surrender to the Lord
00:14:17.09\00:14:18.62
and you have to be obedient
00:14:18.65\00:14:20.39
because the Bible says to
honor thy father and thy mother
00:14:20.42\00:14:23.49
so that your days
may be long upon the land
00:14:23.53\00:14:27.46
that the Lord
thy God giveth thee.
00:14:27.50\00:14:28.83
That is a command...
so, God wants you to obey
00:14:28.86\00:14:31.87
so, do you ever talk back to mom
or did you used to... used to?
00:14:31.90\00:14:35.40
Well, I never talked back
00:14:35.44\00:14:37.77
but I just get like an
attitude and start stomping.
00:14:37.81\00:14:41.34
And you're
stomping... and then you can...
00:14:41.38\00:14:43.18
oh, I have never seen anybody
who can roll their eyes like you
00:14:43.21\00:14:46.05
"Oooh, can you do that for me?"
00:14:46.08\00:14:47.65
Like, hmmm...
hmmm... you're getting...
00:14:47.68\00:14:50.29
oh wait... oh
Rhiana, this is you...
00:14:50.35\00:14:53.32
Kim is demonstrating the look...
00:14:53.36\00:14:56.26
oh... I'd be like... "Ooooh"
00:14:56.32\00:14:59.16
it takes everything in me
to power the Lord not to get up
00:14:59.19\00:15:02.90
because I don't
want to get a case,
00:15:02.93\00:15:04.27
I don't want a case, okay,
00:15:04.30\00:15:05.63
you know,
00:15:05.67\00:15:07.00
so, I mean...
00:15:07.04\00:15:08.44
so, where did you learn to
do your eye movement like that?
00:15:08.50\00:15:12.37
Rhiana: Well...
well... Kim: Be honest.
00:15:12.41\00:15:16.95
In school, it's a whole
bunch of bullying and stuff
00:15:16.98\00:15:20.72
so, I kind of had
to stick up for myself.
00:15:20.75\00:15:23.42
Oh really? So, rolling
your eyes is one of them?
00:15:23.45\00:15:26.35
Yeah.
00:15:26.39\00:15:27.72
Really, does that
help... does that work?
00:15:27.76\00:15:29.42
Yeah, because people
will be talking about
00:15:29.46\00:15:31.36
your family members and
you just want to walk away
00:15:31.39\00:15:35.26
but then, they
keep talking about...
00:15:35.30\00:15:36.77
"You're scared" and stuff.
00:15:36.80\00:15:38.13
So you just give them
that look... that "Rhiana look"
00:15:38.17\00:15:40.30
do you have a reputation
in school for that look?
00:15:40.34\00:15:42.57
No.
00:15:42.60\00:15:43.94
Now, let's talk
about an incident,
00:15:43.97\00:15:47.11
Mom, let's go back,
00:15:47.14\00:15:48.48
remember the
incident with the "B" word...
00:15:48.51\00:15:52.15
and you got a
text... oh my goodness...
00:15:52.18\00:15:55.88
now, in schools
today... back in our day...
00:15:55.92\00:15:59.55
it used to be... you know,
00:15:59.59\00:16:01.22
"What's up girl?"
"How you doing girl?"
00:16:01.26\00:16:03.39
"What... " you
know, "You're my girl"
00:16:03.43\00:16:05.53
now, it's "What's up mmm... "
00:16:05.56\00:16:08.86
"What's up... "
00:16:08.93\00:16:10.50
so, you saw this
text from a mother
00:16:10.53\00:16:12.17
that Rhiana had sent
the word back to the girl
00:16:12.20\00:16:17.21
but the girl had texted Rhiana,
but the girl was smart...
00:16:17.24\00:16:20.38
she deleted her
message... all right,
00:16:20.41\00:16:22.44
now we're
talking... what grade here?
00:16:22.51\00:16:24.51
She deleted hers too
00:16:24.55\00:16:26.68
but not before the
mama got the screen shot...
00:16:26.72\00:16:29.12
All right then, she
screams at you, all right,
00:16:29.18\00:16:31.49
so, do they use this kind
of language in your school?
00:16:31.52\00:16:35.29
They curse a lot?
00:16:35.32\00:16:36.66
Yeah, it started like,
at the end of second grade.
00:16:36.69\00:16:40.70
What?
00:16:40.76\00:16:42.10
You started
hearing these bad words.
00:16:42.13\00:16:43.73
Nodding her head.
00:16:43.77\00:16:45.10
And you knew
they were bad words.
00:16:45.13\00:16:47.17
You know, but would you use it
00:16:47.24\00:16:49.24
even in a text, on
your mother's phone?
00:16:49.27\00:16:51.47
Because she...
00:16:51.51\00:16:52.84
Was it on your phone
or your mother's phone?
00:16:52.87\00:16:54.68
My phone... she just
kept calling me that word.
00:16:54.71\00:16:56.51
So you felt... the only
way you could defend yourself
00:16:56.54\00:16:59.55
was to call her back that word.
00:16:59.58\00:17:01.92
Yeah.
00:17:01.95\00:17:03.28
Yeah, do you think
the Lord was pleased?
00:17:03.32\00:17:05.05
No.
00:17:05.09\00:17:06.42
Do you think the Lord likes
us to use profanity or curse?
00:17:06.45\00:17:09.42
Rhiana: No.
00:17:09.46\00:17:10.79
Kim: No, those
are not God's words,
00:17:10.83\00:17:12.16
you know, those...
00:17:12.19\00:17:13.53
He doesn't like
those words at all.
00:17:13.56\00:17:15.10
We have a lot of words
in the dictionary, right?
00:17:15.13\00:17:17.57
If this was a dictionary, "Wow!
look at all these great words"
00:17:17.60\00:17:20.90
okay, I'm going to give
you a word... you ready?
00:17:20.94\00:17:23.81
Okay, the word is
"affable" can you say that word?
00:17:23.84\00:17:26.64
"Affable. "
00:17:26.68\00:17:28.01
Have you ever heard
that word? Rhiana: No.
00:17:28.04\00:17:29.38
Kim: Okay,
affable means likeable.
00:17:29.41\00:17:31.55
Isn't that a great word?
00:17:31.58\00:17:32.91
Nodding head.
00:17:32.95\00:17:34.28
So, I will say,
"Rhiana, you are so affable. "
00:17:34.32\00:17:37.12
Okay, but you're
going to saying it back,
00:17:37.19\00:17:39.59
"Dr. Kim, you're so affable. "
00:17:39.62\00:17:41.39
"Dr. Kim, you're so affable... "
00:17:41.42\00:17:43.12
Oh, thank you so
much, I agree with that.
00:17:43.16\00:17:45.06
Okay, I'm going to
give you another word.
00:17:45.09\00:17:46.96
"Rhiana, at times, your
mother can be very pensive. "
00:17:47.00\00:17:51.23
You know, just think
a minute, "Pensive. "
00:17:51.27\00:17:54.50
Stress.
00:17:54.54\00:17:55.87
Well, you know
that will do it, okay.
00:17:55.90\00:17:59.41
Yes, because you
know you can stress her,
00:17:59.47\00:18:03.11
you're such a little person
to bring such thoughts sometimes
00:18:03.14\00:18:06.58
but "Pensive" means "Quiet"
00:18:06.61\00:18:08.88
so, when you see
your mother get quiet,
00:18:08.92\00:18:11.79
that's a red flag isn't it?
00:18:11.82\00:18:13.25
What happens when your mother
gets quiet and shuts down?
00:18:13.29\00:18:17.09
Um, I just feel like,
"Okay, maybe there's a 'yes'."
00:18:17.13\00:18:20.90
Really?
00:18:20.93\00:18:22.26
Hmmm... hmmm...
but when she's upset...
00:18:22.30\00:18:24.93
But then, when she gives me a
look, I just go up to my room.
00:18:24.97\00:18:28.07
What does her look look like?
00:18:28.10\00:18:30.04
The look.
00:18:30.07\00:18:31.81
That's mama's look?
00:18:31.84\00:18:34.78
Can you look at the camera,
look over the camera right there
00:18:34.81\00:18:37.25
look at this camera right
here and give us that look.
00:18:37.28\00:18:38.68
Laughter.
00:18:38.71\00:18:40.05
That's mama's look, huh?
00:18:40.08\00:18:41.98
Nodding.
00:18:42.02\00:18:43.52
Okay, so you know, "I
need to leave mom alone
00:18:43.55\00:18:46.29
and go to my room
and be still" all right.
00:18:46.32\00:18:49.09
Why were you taking food,
00:18:49.12\00:18:50.89
I mean, you can have
food, you live there,
00:18:50.93\00:18:53.76
that's your
home, mom feeds you...
00:18:53.80\00:18:55.86
Because I just needed a snack.
00:18:55.90\00:18:57.67
You decided to take
it because you wanted it.
00:18:57.70\00:19:00.37
Yeah.
00:19:00.40\00:19:01.74
But it got out of hand
00:19:01.77\00:19:03.10
because you started
taking mama's peanuts,
00:19:03.14\00:19:04.47
going into her purse...
00:19:04.51\00:19:05.91
you started doing
all kinds of things,
00:19:05.94\00:19:07.94
just helping
yourself to everything...
00:19:07.98\00:19:09.88
mummy couldn't lay anything
down with you trying to eat it
00:19:09.91\00:19:13.15
you know, was that right?
00:19:13.18\00:19:14.72
No.
00:19:14.75\00:19:16.18
How would you like it if your
little cousins would come over
00:19:16.22\00:19:18.62
and they would take something
that didn't belong to them,
00:19:18.65\00:19:21.29
you wouldn't
like that, would you?
00:19:21.32\00:19:22.66
Um... no, because
00:19:22.69\00:19:25.29
all my cousins are boys
so I would just smack 'em.
00:19:25.33\00:19:28.86
Oh my goodness,
in the name of Jesus,
00:19:28.90\00:19:31.60
you smack your little cousins?
00:19:31.63\00:19:33.34
Rhiana: Yeah. Mom: She doesn't.
00:19:33.37\00:19:35.04
Yes, I do, I smack the twins.
00:19:35.10\00:19:37.17
Laughter.
00:19:37.21\00:19:38.54
You smack the
twins... how old are they?
00:19:38.57\00:19:41.94
They just turned seven Monday...
00:19:42.01\00:19:44.35
What? and you are how old?
00:19:44.41\00:19:46.18
Nine.
00:19:46.21\00:19:47.55
Okay, because you're just a
little bit older, all right.
00:19:47.58\00:19:49.55
Well, Rhiana, see now, we've got
to deal with that in counseling
00:19:49.58\00:19:52.55
because I didn't know that
00:19:52.59\00:19:53.92
see, so, you can't go
around smacking people,
00:19:53.96\00:19:57.23
you know, because if they...
00:19:57.26\00:19:59.39
because people
will smack you back.
00:19:59.46\00:20:01.13
But they took...
so... they can handle it.
00:20:01.16\00:20:04.10
Oh my Lord...
00:20:04.13\00:20:05.47
Laughter.
00:20:05.50\00:20:06.84
Rhiana, okay, but
in the real world,
00:20:06.87\00:20:09.17
outside... you can't do that...
00:20:09.20\00:20:11.44
in middle
school... high school...
00:20:11.47\00:20:13.78
you know, you
can't do that, okay,
00:20:13.81\00:20:16.08
if somebody jumps you...
00:20:16.11\00:20:17.45
But what if you got
to take the consequences?
00:20:17.48\00:20:19.88
But... okay... but...
you can't be at the store
00:20:19.91\00:20:22.52
and somebody
cuts in front of you,
00:20:22.55\00:20:24.29
you're going to smack somebody?
00:20:24.32\00:20:26.02
No, I'll get my spot back.
00:20:26.05\00:20:27.89
How are you going
to get your spot back.
00:20:27.92\00:20:29.32
I'm going to
cut in front of him.
00:20:29.36\00:20:31.09
But... but... can I say this?
00:20:31.16\00:20:32.63
This is what I do... when
I see somebody with one item
00:20:32.69\00:20:36.13
and I may have 20 items,
00:20:36.16\00:20:38.30
I let them go in front of me.
00:20:38.33\00:20:39.67
You let them go in front
of you. Kim: That's right.
00:20:39.70\00:20:41.17
But what if you
only got one item
00:20:41.20\00:20:43.67
and they got more
items then they cut?
00:20:43.71\00:20:45.97
Let them cut
because what would Jesus do?
00:20:46.01\00:20:47.81
Why?
00:20:47.84\00:20:49.18
What would Jesus do?
00:20:49.21\00:20:50.55
Rhiana: He would
just let it go by.
00:20:50.58\00:20:52.25
Kim: He'd let it go by,
00:20:52.31\00:20:53.65
so, therefore, if
Jesus could let it go by,
00:20:53.68\00:20:55.68
what are we supposed to do?
00:20:55.72\00:20:57.19
Let it go by...?
00:20:57.22\00:20:58.55
Let is go by even
though we're human
00:20:58.59\00:21:00.52
and it's hard sometimes,
00:21:00.56\00:21:02.52
but we have to have
a character of Jesus.
00:21:02.56\00:21:05.93
But what if you're in a rush?
00:21:05.96\00:21:07.50
You have to
wait... you have to wait,
00:21:07.56\00:21:09.70
you should have left a
little bit earlier, all right,
00:21:09.73\00:21:12.37
but you can't just
cut in front of people
00:21:12.40\00:21:15.14
or... just like you
waited for me to do the program
00:21:15.20\00:21:18.44
and I really appreciate that
00:21:18.47\00:21:20.31
and that was kindness,
00:21:20.34\00:21:21.94
God is going to
repay you for kindness...
00:21:21.98\00:21:24.45
for the ministry
you're doing here today
00:21:24.48\00:21:26.72
you know, you
ever heard the saying?
00:21:26.75\00:21:28.95
"You reap what you sow"
00:21:28.98\00:21:30.39
mama tell her what "You
reap what you sow" means.
00:21:30.42\00:21:33.19
She knows what it means
because today what happened?
00:21:33.22\00:21:35.92
Kim: Oh...
00:21:35.96\00:21:37.29
We stopped just to
get something to eat
00:21:37.33\00:21:38.89
and our food was paid for.
00:21:38.93\00:21:40.36
What?
00:21:40.40\00:21:41.93
And my mama... she
was talking about her
00:21:41.96\00:21:46.57
because the lady was taking,
like, 20... 30... minutes...
00:21:46.60\00:21:50.07
It wasn't 20... 30 minutes...
00:21:50.11\00:21:52.54
we were sitting
in a drive-through
00:21:52.57\00:21:54.44
so you can see the lady
was doing multiple transactions
00:21:54.48\00:21:57.81
so, I'm like, "Okay...
00:21:57.85\00:21:59.35
how many transactions
are they going to let her do
00:21:59.41\00:22:02.05
at the window?"
00:22:02.08\00:22:03.49
And then they had her pull
up and then, she pulled back...
00:22:03.52\00:22:07.46
so, I'm like,
"What is going on?"
00:22:07.49\00:22:09.02
And then I'm like,
they handed me the food
00:22:09.06\00:22:11.49
and I'm like...
"Here you go, the money"
00:22:11.53\00:22:13.86
and they're like, "No,
your food is already paid for"
00:22:13.90\00:22:15.96
and I said, "Well,
wow! look at God... "
00:22:16.03\00:22:19.00
Look at God.
00:22:19.03\00:22:20.37
So, if you reap
good, you sow good.
00:22:20.40\00:22:23.41
And Rhiana knows that
because that's what she does.
00:22:23.44\00:22:27.68
Kim: Hmmm... the kindness...
00:22:27.71\00:22:29.28
why do you try to be so tough?
00:22:29.34\00:22:30.85
Mom: That's it...
she tries to be tough
00:22:30.88\00:22:33.31
and she's soft and charming...
00:22:33.38\00:22:35.88
Kim: Let me tell you...
I'm from East-Side Detroit,
00:22:35.92\00:22:38.45
"East Side" okay.
00:22:38.49\00:22:39.82
Rhiana: Me too.
00:22:39.85\00:22:41.19
Kim: No, you didn't
just say, "Me too... "
00:22:41.22\00:22:43.19
girl...
00:22:43.22\00:22:45.13
Laughter...
00:22:45.16\00:22:47.03
I know you're
from the East Side,
00:22:47.06\00:22:48.90
there's something about
the East-Side people all right,
00:22:48.93\00:22:51.53
but... I was not expecting
that comment, all right,
00:22:51.57\00:22:54.27
but you have to find a
balance, you know what I mean?
00:22:54.30\00:22:56.64
To find a balance...
00:22:56.67\00:22:58.01
Rhiana: To keep your balance...
00:22:58.04\00:23:00.18
Kim: You have to
keep your balance.
00:23:00.24\00:23:01.58
Rhiana: Keep it straight.
00:23:01.61\00:23:02.94
Kim: Keep your...
yes... and keep peace.
00:23:02.98\00:23:04.31
Keep peace... I don't want to
fight with someone in the store.
00:23:04.35\00:23:07.55
I don't want to... if
someone cuts in front of me
00:23:07.58\00:23:09.98
and people cut in
front of you on the freeway,
00:23:10.02\00:23:12.35
I don't care, go ahead...
00:23:12.42\00:23:14.09
Rhiana: That's normal?
00:23:14.12\00:23:15.72
Kim: No, that's not
normal, it's road rage
00:23:15.76\00:23:17.99
but people could die
00:23:18.03\00:23:19.36
and I don't
want... I don't want that.
00:23:19.39\00:23:21.60
So I just let the person
go ahead of me, all right
00:23:21.63\00:23:24.33
so, I just...
00:23:24.37\00:23:26.07
how would you like it
if you came to my office
00:23:26.10\00:23:28.64
and you had to wait an hour
to see me, would you like that?
00:23:28.67\00:23:31.21
No.
00:23:31.24\00:23:32.57
And I didn't even greet you,
00:23:32.61\00:23:33.94
but what do I do when I come out
and you're waiting in my office,
00:23:33.98\00:23:36.61
what's the first thing I say?
00:23:36.64\00:23:38.51
"Hello, how are you today?"
00:23:38.55\00:23:39.95
Don't I...?
00:23:39.98\00:23:41.32
And you sound just
like me, all right,
00:23:41.35\00:23:43.28
and mama says, "Go on
in... just take her on in... "
00:23:43.35\00:23:47.72
okay... and
sometimes I talk to mom first
00:23:47.76\00:23:49.92
"Is there
anything I need to know?"
00:23:49.99\00:23:51.33
And then, I bring you
in and we have our talk
00:23:51.36\00:23:54.13
and you sit so
nicely like you're doing now
00:23:54.20\00:23:57.07
you don't climb
all over my furniture
00:23:57.10\00:23:59.17
because you know
I'm not having that
00:23:59.20\00:24:01.20
and then... oh let's do
that crying thing she does, mom,
00:24:01.24\00:24:04.04
mmm... mmm... and
mom and I would be like,
00:24:04.07\00:24:07.58
"Really... really?"
00:24:07.61\00:24:09.78
And then, "Oh...
no... Dr. Logan... "
00:24:09.81\00:24:12.45
I said, "Talk... speak... "
00:24:12.48\00:24:14.68
because you can speak,
00:24:14.72\00:24:16.52
so... you try to manipulate...
00:24:16.55\00:24:18.45
you know what
manipulation means?
00:24:18.49\00:24:20.76
What does it mean to manipulate?
00:24:20.79\00:24:23.36
Try to do something you can't.
00:24:23.39\00:24:25.89
That's right,
because we've talked about it
00:24:25.93\00:24:28.73
and mother has
talked to you about it,
00:24:28.76\00:24:30.43
so you tried to get over
00:24:30.47\00:24:32.50
and... "ooh... I'm not
going to Dr. Logan... "
00:24:32.53\00:24:35.07
you start acting
like you're two years old
00:24:35.10\00:24:37.61
and we know how smart you are.
00:24:37.64\00:24:39.94
So mom, let me ask you,
00:24:39.97\00:24:41.84
what are the
challenges that you face
00:24:41.88\00:24:44.15
raising your
daughter as a single mom?
00:24:44.18\00:24:46.41
Um,
00:24:46.45\00:24:49.38
basically it's hard...
00:24:49.42\00:24:50.75
you heard her talk
about the behavior at school,
00:24:50.79\00:24:53.36
when you are living a life
00:24:53.39\00:24:55.96
where you live by
certain morals and principles
00:24:55.99\00:24:58.36
and you're the
parent that is strict
00:24:58.39\00:25:00.16
and your child is around kids
that's not... it's very hard...
00:25:00.20\00:25:04.03
it's
demanding... it's stressful...
00:25:04.07\00:25:06.94
it's emotional... it's
an up-and-down constantly
00:25:06.97\00:25:10.91
because you don't know if
you're doing what's right,
00:25:10.94\00:25:12.67
you don't know if
you're doing what's wrong,
00:25:12.71\00:25:14.04
it's just all about that feeling
"you're doing what's best"
00:25:14.08\00:25:17.01
um...
00:25:17.05\00:25:19.45
her... in the
situation with her father...
00:25:19.48\00:25:20.95
anything at
school... it is a constant fear
00:25:20.98\00:25:23.85
of... if you ever pop
back up at the school...
00:25:23.89\00:25:26.65
the incident that we spoke
of, when she left the school
00:25:26.72\00:25:30.03
and I was right out front,
00:25:30.06\00:25:31.39
and missed her
in a 30-second gap
00:25:31.43\00:25:33.60
because she went
with a family member,
00:25:33.63\00:25:36.03
instantly brought
back the fear for me...
00:25:36.06\00:25:38.30
not only for me... but my
close friend that was there
00:25:38.33\00:25:42.24
and the staff
members who were there
00:25:42.30\00:25:44.14
from when she
was originally taken,
00:25:44.17\00:25:45.94
it was an automatic panic...
like, "Do you think he has her?"
00:25:45.97\00:25:49.28
That was the automatic question,
00:25:49.31\00:25:50.81
so, I still
stay... and stay true to...
00:25:50.85\00:25:55.18
yea though I walk thought
the valley of shadow of death,
00:25:55.22\00:25:57.95
I shall fear no evil...
00:25:58.02\00:25:59.35
Kim: That's right.
00:25:59.39\00:26:00.72
Mom: And so,
I... I constantly...
00:26:00.76\00:26:02.09
when the incident happened,
prayer got through that...
00:26:02.12\00:26:05.59
reading the
Daily Word every day...
00:26:05.63\00:26:08.63
certain
Scriptures got me through,
00:26:08.66\00:26:10.93
I prayed up and through my house
00:26:10.97\00:26:13.23
and over her daily...
00:26:13.27\00:26:14.60
you even started praying with
us daily and gave me Scriptures
00:26:14.64\00:26:18.17
and so, I don't have the
"fear" of him or the situation
00:26:18.21\00:26:23.24
it's really just a strength
of what I will not allow
00:26:23.28\00:26:28.28
you know... it's
Mama Bear. Kim: That's it.
00:26:28.32\00:26:30.02
Mom: Full Mama Bear... Kim: Yes.
00:26:30.05\00:26:31.49
Mom: Because the world...
00:26:31.52\00:26:33.22
people that try
to change everything
00:26:33.25\00:26:35.26
and I can only control
what's in my household.
00:26:35.29\00:26:36.62
Kim: That's it... that's it.
00:26:36.66\00:26:37.99
Mom: I've learned to
control what I teach her
00:26:38.03\00:26:39.36
and how she can
handle situations
00:26:39.39\00:26:41.40
overall, being a
parent ain't easy
00:26:41.43\00:26:43.47
and it's definitely
not... when you're going...
00:26:43.50\00:26:46.67
don't share the same beliefs
and values with the other parent
00:26:46.70\00:26:49.24
so, that's where we are,
that's why we're still here
00:26:49.27\00:26:53.24
because her
behavior is a reflection
00:26:53.27\00:26:56.88
of the back-and-forth
between the parenting.
00:26:56.91\00:26:58.95
Did you hear mama says,
00:26:58.98\00:27:00.32
why we're still
here in counseling?
00:27:00.35\00:27:01.68
So Dr. Logan is
still in your life...
00:27:01.72\00:27:03.59
isn't that a wonderful thing?
00:27:03.62\00:27:04.95
Nodding.
00:27:04.99\00:27:06.32
Kim: I can't hear
you. Rhiana: Yes Ma'am.
00:27:06.35\00:27:07.69
All right... all right...
00:27:07.72\00:27:09.49
so, do you like
school? You like school?
00:27:09.52\00:27:12.03
Um... kind of.
00:27:12.06\00:27:14.46
Kind of... but
you are in cheer...
00:27:14.50\00:27:17.43
you cheer for a
basketball or football team?
00:27:17.47\00:27:19.73
Football.
00:27:19.77\00:27:21.10
So, you're pretty good...
00:27:21.14\00:27:22.50
getting ready
to go to Cheer Camp
00:27:22.57\00:27:23.94
and you like all of that
00:27:23.97\00:27:25.54
all right, I used
to be a cheerleader too
00:27:25.57\00:27:27.58
hmmm... hmmm...
okay... with the Pom-poms
00:27:27.61\00:27:29.58
but... okay... I couldn't
do the flips all that great
00:27:29.61\00:27:32.38
but I was good,
00:27:32.41\00:27:33.75
so, I just want to say to you
00:27:33.78\00:27:35.68
how much I
appreciate you coming on
00:27:35.72\00:27:37.85
making sure that you
never leave with someone
00:27:37.89\00:27:40.86
other than your mother or
who your mother has ordained
00:27:40.89\00:27:43.12
for you to leave with
00:27:43.19\00:27:44.53
and I want to know that
God is first in your life,
00:27:44.56\00:27:48.26
is God first in
your life? Rhiana: Yes.
00:27:48.30\00:27:50.30
And you were recently baptized.
00:27:50.33\00:27:51.67
Do you want to see
Jesus when He comes?
00:27:51.70\00:27:53.47
Rhiana: Yes. Kim: I do too...
00:27:53.54\00:27:55.07
I am excited
that you are learning
00:27:55.10\00:27:57.77
how to live to be well,
00:27:57.81\00:27:59.91
and you are doing it
00:27:59.94\00:28:01.94
much better than
when I first met you.
00:28:02.01\00:28:04.05
I want to thank
you both for coming on.
00:28:04.08\00:28:05.88
Mom: Thank you for having
us. Kim: Oh it's been a joy.
00:28:05.91\00:28:07.72
I'm Dr. Kim Logan Nowlin
00:28:07.78\00:28:10.05
and continue to live to be well.
00:28:10.09\00:28:12.35
God bless.
00:28:12.39\00:28:13.72