We're glad you joined us
here at Laymen Ministries.
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In our studio today we
have Michael McCaffrey.
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He is our studio
tech that works here
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at Laymen Ministries.
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This is gonna be the
first part of a two series
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of an interview with Mike.
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And Mike, this is
your opportunity to be
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in front of the camera for once
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because normally you are
the guy behind the scenes
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pushing the buttons
and running the cameras
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and doing the editing.
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And how long you've been
involved with video editing
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anyhow and working with,
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you know, all
these digital technology?
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I started making old movies
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and stuff with my
cousins and my brother
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when I was
probably about 15 or 16.
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So I have been
doing it for a long time
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and so it has been pretty fun.
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You are about what 55
now or 60 some like that?
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Not quite.
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You are in your
mid-- just 31 right? Yeah.
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And so you've been doing it
then for almost 15 years. Yeah.
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And since you were a kid.
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Anyhow the reason I invited Mike
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to come on the
set today was that
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he's got a very
interesting and unique story
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and I wanted him
to share that with us
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on this first interview.
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The second interview
that we're gonna do that
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we following this in a few
or watching this on television
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you'll definitely want
to contact our ministry
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and get the DVD
with more parts on it
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because it's really fascinating
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but we're gonna go to
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the whole
concept of digital media
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and the opportunities that are--
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have made
themselves available to
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ministries like
ours to be able to reach
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millions of people literally
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be I the internet
and video and television
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and that's the direction
of the second interview
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is gonna be going.
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But Mike, you have
a very unique story
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and, you know, you said
you grow up in Minnesota.
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Yeah, you bet.
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You bet here with
the mosquitoes are at
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which is state bird of Minnesota
somebody told me one time.
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Yeah mosquito.
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Yeah the mosquito,
yeah and so how did--
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where did you go, you
had an interest in video
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when you were 15, 16 years old.
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Where did that develop
and where did that lead you
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and did you go to
church when you were 15 or 16?
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Your folks have any
kind of religious preference?
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Yeah, I was raised catholic,
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my brother and I went to
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catholic junior
high and high school.
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So six years of catholic school.
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Since like you folks
really conservative catholic
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like the
Trinitarian type stuff or--
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No not really conservative.
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We did go to mass
weekly and they raised us with,
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you know, catholic upbringing
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but at the same time
when I was in high school
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and even in college it was
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spiritually was never
really much thought on my mind.
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It was never really
occupied any part of mind.
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Like a lot of people.
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Yeah and then my
interest in film making
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and in doing video
production really took me to--
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led me to a film school
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and I wound up at
film school in Montana.
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They have a film
school in Montana?
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Yeah they do. Where at?
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In Bozeman.
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Why would you chose if
you're living in Minnesota
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you go to film school
for instance in Montana
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rather than going
some place like an LA
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or, you know, New
York or something?
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Well, that's a good question.
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I was never really keen on going
to a big city at that point.
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I was-- and I think
also that point my focus
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in what exactly I wanted to
do with video wasn't really--
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hasn't really be found
or focused to that point.
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So I was kind of open
and I look at some other,
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you know, media communications
program and stuff like that.
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So when you went off to college
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what happened to
your spirituality?
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I mean, you keep going to church
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and you had a
real keen interest in
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religion and thinks like that?
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No, spiritual life was
pretty much on the back
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and I didn't
really have any kind of--
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wasn't really
practicing anything
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even though I have
been raised catholic.
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So in film school,
pretty much after film school
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doesn't really have
any spiritual focus.
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That didn't come along
until after I have graduate
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and then after school
I moved to Los Angeles
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and it was even after
several years in Los Angeles
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when I first had come to
have a relationship with Christ.
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What happened
to all of a sudden?
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I mean, you're
going off to your career
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to work in the "industry"
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and lot of people get down there
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and they just become
observed in that whole thing.
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What would all of a sudden cause
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you a take an
interest in spiritual things
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and how did that developed?
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Well, I first
was in a relationship
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that was very deceptive
and I was really deceived
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and it led me to a pretty
nasty bad place emotionally
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and that's really when
I had got down on my knees
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and prayed to God for probably
the first time really seriously
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and said God, if
you're out there,
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you know, I need your
help and I was at a point
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where I really
needed Him in my life
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and then He came
into my life dramatically
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I specifically
asked for Him for truth.
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I want to know if,
you know, I was deceived
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and how I was being deceived
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and what was
really going on there.
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Isn't it
interesting that sometimes
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we have to be brought to
some kind of crisis in our life
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before we really seek
God out and then we found out
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that the God's really
been seeking us out all along.
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So at that point
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and now you became more serious
about your catholic faith
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and started going
back to the Catholic Church
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or what happened exactly?
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Well, it was
after that experience
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that I really want to know truth
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and I think that
God had really given me
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a love for the truth
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because of the
experience I have gone through.
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And so I didn't want
to make the same mistake
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with my spiritual journey
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that I made with
that relationship.
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And so in my spiritual journey
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I studied a lot
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and God had really give me a
passion for studying the word
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just came out of nowhere
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is really
interesting to me to see that.
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But I started studying
the Bible in terms of science
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and archeology and history
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and really was really testing
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the word of God to
see if it was truth.
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Hence after
realizing overwhelmingly
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that it could be
trusted on all these accounts
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I began to see that
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the Bible could be
trusted more and more
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and in fact what
I had been grown--
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thought growing up could
be trusted less and less.
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And so I was realizing that
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there's always
deception in the world
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and the only thing that I could
actually trust is the Bible.
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I was gonna say you
didn't take the course
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and I don't say this any
kind of sarcastic way at all
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you didn't take the course
like lot of my catholic friends
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because lot of my
catholic friends are steeped in
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the church is the
supreme authority for truth
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and the one that
can establish doctrine
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in creating tradition you know
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and the questioned that is
like you know really serious in
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be studying your
Bible like that is
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little bit out of the ordinary.
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So what did you studied
that started really getting your
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your gears
turning and making realize
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that possibly you were involved
in an organization it was--
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Well, I had first
studying Catholicism,
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the Bible is really one of the
first things I started studying
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just because I just
wanted to understand it better.
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But what I began to see is that
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the Bible teaches a
very different message
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than what the
Catholic Church was teaching.
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And the more I
continued to study
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and understand both
perspectives I realized that,
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I could either
continue to follow the Bible
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and have to
part with Catholicism
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or I could
continue with Catholicism
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but then I would have
to part with the Bible.
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And so I had already seen,
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you know, from my
studies of science and scripture
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that the Bible is an
amazing, amazing book
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definitely of divine
authority and origin.
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So I decided I want to continue
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pursuing my
relationship with God
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and following scripture.
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So you started heading down
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the traditional
road of the Protestant
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idea of Sola
Scriptura Bible only.
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So what kind of
things were you studying
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that really started really,
getting your gears turning?
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Did you get into
prophecy or did you get into--
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Yeah, I had been a
freshmen for about a year
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so I year and
half-- I got into prophecy
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because prophecy has
always been interesting to me
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even as a nonbeliever
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just because it is
all kinds of supernatural
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exciting things going on
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and that's
always got my interest.
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And so now here
I was a Christian
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and I realize that well,
prophecy is it's a real thing.
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So all these different
beasts and locust and plagues
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and things
going on in Revelation
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these are actually real
things that are going to happen.
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So when you
started studying the Bible
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you could
actually figure that out
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all these different
beasts and all that stuff?
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Yeah, well, I studied prophecy
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for all these different
facets of prophecy like
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the antichrist
and Mark of the Beast
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and the seven year tribulations
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and the rapture
and the two witnesses
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and the rebuilding of
the temple in Jerusalem
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I just got read everything
I could get my hands on
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and comparing the
scripture continually.
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And after 10 or 11
months of studying it
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really a lot hours of everyday
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I realized that I didn't
want to make the same mistake
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that I had made before
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when I have been
deceived in the relationship.
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So I wanted to make sure that
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whatever I was
gonna believe it was--
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I was going to know
that it was only the truth.
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So you had this all figured out
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and by the time
you spend 11 months
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and you had it
all, all figured out.
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Actually a complete opposite
I had not nothing figured out.
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Wait a second, after 11
months of studying the Bible
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you didn't-- okay come on
help us, help us out here.
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That after all
that time the only thing
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that I knew could make a
positive conclusion about
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was that I couldn't make
any positive conclusions. Wow.
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And so I realized that at
that point that I had to--
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I essentially I kind of given up
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and I didn't know I've studied
all this in my perspectives
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and I couldn't make
sense of one or the other
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so I eventually
told God I was like,
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I don't get it and I guess
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I'm gonna have to look
at prophecy as expected
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and just gonna see what
happens like everybody else.
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And I got to a
point where I knew that
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God had a message in
the Book of Revelation
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that He has for us and
it's not there for no reason
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and God promises are
blessings for those who read it.
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Now I wanted to know
what that message was.
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Okay, now I know you
pretty well after being here
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for a year and half already
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and I know that you
started figuring things out
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and can you share
with the viewing audience
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what was the key
that all of a sudden like
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put the key into
the ignition switch
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and started the
motor to get things turning
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and your experiences as
far as understanding the Bible?
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Yeah, well, after giving it
to God and pretty much giving up
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few weeks after that I
came across a principle
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about interpreting the
Bible and it was 2 Peter 120,
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"Knowing this first,
that no prophecy of Scripture
00:10:05.68\00:10:07.96
is of any
private interpretation."
00:10:07.99\00:10:10.03
And so that was the
key that really unlocked
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all the
confusion and that it takes
00:10:12.15\00:10:14.97
the human
ingredient of interpretation
00:10:15.00\00:10:17.02
100% out of Bible prophecy.
00:10:17.05\00:10:18.70
What you mean it
takes the human--
00:10:18.73\00:10:20.94
you explain what
you are talking about?
00:10:20.97\00:10:22.47
Well, if you look at revelation
or even the prophecies in Daniel
00:10:22.50\00:10:26.86
a lot of it symbolic
that beast and the locust
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and different
things in Revelation.
00:10:29.89\00:10:31.90
It's like the water and the
seas and the women and beast.
00:10:31.93\00:10:34.57
Exactly, these are all--
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these are not literal
things these are symbols.
00:10:35.75\00:10:37.62
In fact that's
what in the first verse
00:10:37.65\00:10:39.12
in Revelation says that
this message has been signified.
00:10:39.15\00:10:42.47
And so these
symbols are defined directly
00:10:42.50\00:10:45.18
in other parts of the Bible
00:10:45.21\00:10:46.79
and in the Old Testament
by the Old Testament prophets.
00:10:46.82\00:10:49.23
And so once I
started to take these symbols
00:10:49.26\00:10:51.78
and let the Bible
define the symbols itself
00:10:51.81\00:10:56.64
then a whole new
picture of prophecy
00:10:56.67\00:10:58.72
started to unfold before me
00:10:58.75\00:11:00.36
unlike anything
I'd come across before.
00:11:00.39\00:11:02.32
So you are letting the
Bible its own expositor
00:11:02.35\00:11:04.73
that's what some people call it.
00:11:04.76\00:11:06.11
You know, when Bible
starts to explain itself
00:11:06.14\00:11:08.65
and so it's not by
human interpretation
00:11:08.68\00:11:10.94
it's the Bible
explaining itself to a human.
00:11:10.97\00:11:13.96
Yeah, and that was the
most amazing thing to me
00:11:13.99\00:11:17.37
because like I said it takes
00:11:17.40\00:11:19.23
the human ingredient
of interpretation out
00:11:19.26\00:11:21.10
and secondly it made sense
00:11:21.13\00:11:23.02
what the world around
is and what we see today.
00:11:23.05\00:11:24.92
It's like these things
had very specific meanings
00:11:24.95\00:11:27.54
and when you put it all together
it's just absolutely amazing.
00:11:27.57\00:11:30.17
It does this right where
we're in the stream of time
00:11:30.20\00:11:32.56
and it tells us
right where we're headed so
00:11:32.59\00:11:34.53
that we're not taken by
surprise of what's gonna happen.
00:11:34.56\00:11:36.73
So when you started
seeing things fit together
00:11:36.76\00:11:39.08
were you attending churches,
00:11:39.11\00:11:40.27
did you just started going
around doing church hunting
00:11:40.30\00:11:42.14
looking for people that maybe
00:11:42.17\00:11:43.78
like started fitting together
with the picture of things
00:11:43.81\00:11:46.33
that you saw fitting
together in the scripture?
00:11:46.36\00:11:48.88
Not that point I
was so kind of on my own
00:11:48.91\00:11:51.20
just trying to
figure things out and...
00:11:51.23\00:11:52.92
So what were you doing to
research this stuff I mean?
00:11:52.95\00:11:55.83
I was-- different places I
was reading articles online,
00:11:55.86\00:11:59.37
I was looking at videos online
00:11:59.40\00:12:01.20
and YouTube and
things like that.
00:12:01.23\00:12:02.69
Just kind of a
scene was out there.
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.40
By going back to the
Bible or having the Bible--
00:12:04.43\00:12:06.54
And always going
back to the Bible
00:12:06.57\00:12:07.77
and seeing it if it make sense
00:12:07.80\00:12:09.67
and one of the
things I would come across
00:12:09.70\00:12:11.28
in Bible
prophecy was the Sabbath
00:12:11.31\00:12:13.54
and that was kind of an
unexpected curve wall for me
00:12:13.57\00:12:16.41
because I knew there is always
some kind of issue going on
00:12:16.44\00:12:19.93
between the Sabbath and Sunday
and that whole controversy
00:12:19.96\00:12:22.33
and I meant to
get to studying it
00:12:22.36\00:12:23.69
but just hasn't done that yet.
00:12:23.72\00:12:25.65
But realizing
that it was coming up
00:12:25.68\00:12:28.54
in prophecy it force me to
go back and to study the Bible,
00:12:28.57\00:12:32.13
to study that specifically
00:12:32.16\00:12:33.95
and then that it's
the fourth commandment
00:12:33.98\00:12:35.62
so then it involves well,
00:12:35.65\00:12:36.99
what about the Ten Commandments.
00:12:37.02\00:12:38.23
Are they still in effect or
they have been done away with?
00:12:38.26\00:12:40.73
And there is all
these different variables
00:12:40.76\00:12:43.76
when it comes for the Sabbath
00:12:43.79\00:12:44.82
and so after studying
that for several months
00:12:44.85\00:12:47.91
I realized that,
00:12:47.94\00:12:48.97
you know, Sabbath
is the seventh day
00:12:49.00\00:12:51.29
and that is still holy
and it is still blessed.
00:12:51.32\00:12:54.07
And so I've started feeling
00:12:54.10\00:12:56.90
guilty at a certain
point for not keeping it
00:12:56.93\00:12:59.08
and so that's when I
started keeping the Sabbath.
00:12:59.11\00:13:02.14
And so like when you
were in this quest for truth
00:13:02.17\00:13:05.05
and you started
setting all these things
00:13:05.08\00:13:06.71
in prophecy as said as you start
00:13:06.74\00:13:08.32
you know, like
visiting different churches
00:13:08.35\00:13:10.04
and getting involved
with like study groups
00:13:10.07\00:13:11.91
and trying to find
if other people believe
00:13:11.94\00:13:14.36
like some of the things you
are finding on the scripture.
00:13:14.39\00:13:16.74
Yeah, one of the
things that I was--
00:13:16.77\00:13:18.31
there was when I was in L.A.
00:13:18.34\00:13:20.09
I found a Bible study group
00:13:20.12\00:13:21.38
an undenominational
Bible study group
00:13:21.41\00:13:23.42
that was getting towards people
and the entertainment industry.
00:13:23.45\00:13:26.69
That was huge blessing and
lot of awesome people there.
00:13:26.72\00:13:29.19
Super nice people
and you are in that.
00:13:29.22\00:13:30.58
Yeah, and but when I
started to study prophecy more
00:13:30.61\00:13:33.28
I started coming
across things about,
00:13:33.31\00:13:35.20
you know, where
do we go when we die
00:13:35.23\00:13:36.42
and about the
millennium and about the Sabbath
00:13:36.45\00:13:39.79
and so I started
asking questions.
00:13:39.82\00:13:42.23
Did same happen
to you like when I--
00:13:42.26\00:13:44.32
I wasn't raised a
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:44.35\00:13:45.92
and when I start searching I
started finding out that well,
00:13:45.95\00:13:48.75
I was at different churches
00:13:48.78\00:13:49.84
and visiting with
different people that,
00:13:49.87\00:13:51.76
you know, they just
kind of look at me like
00:13:51.79\00:13:53.29
I was crazy, you
know, what do if and--
00:13:53.32\00:13:55.39
you know studying
that for you know.
00:13:55.42\00:13:57.43
Yeah, I definitely got
that feeling with someone says
00:13:57.46\00:14:01.43
and but the-- the more I started
understanding both perspectives
00:14:01.46\00:14:06.36
I was less and less
satisfied with answers
00:14:06.39\00:14:08.70
I was getting about why
the Sabbath was ever changed?
00:14:08.73\00:14:11.24
Yeah, I remember one time even
00:14:11.27\00:14:13.32
when I was kind
of just searching
00:14:13.35\00:14:15.42
and studying I was
sharing with my employer
00:14:15.45\00:14:19.32
who was Pentecostal,
00:14:19.35\00:14:20.51
you know, some
things about the law
00:14:20.54\00:14:22.46
you know that law was
still to binding our own hearts
00:14:22.49\00:14:24.54
and he got upset with me
00:14:24.57\00:14:25.60
and tried to rebuke a
demon out of me you know
00:14:25.63\00:14:27.93
and I'm like--
Wow, that's strange.
00:14:27.96\00:14:29.23
This is so there--
truly the Bible talks
00:14:29.26\00:14:32.15
about spiritual Babylon
and when you get out there
00:14:32.18\00:14:34.74
and you start a safer truth
you can't get lost in Babylon
00:14:34.77\00:14:38.53
because there are so
many different people teaching
00:14:38.56\00:14:40.11
so many different things
00:14:40.14\00:14:41.91
and you know you
come back to the word
00:14:41.94\00:14:43.69
like you said having the Bible
00:14:43.72\00:14:44.93
be it's own
expositor explaining itself
00:14:44.96\00:14:47.26
then its like it starts
to all these little pieces
00:14:47.29\00:14:49.66
the puzzle starts to
fit together perfectly.
00:14:49.69\00:14:51.67
Yeah, and then people say,
you know, for example well,
00:14:51.70\00:14:53.96
the law has been done
away with and you know,
00:14:53.99\00:14:55.93
Colossians 2:14 says the
law was nailed to the cross
00:14:55.96\00:14:58.52
but if we continued to read
00:14:58.55\00:15:00.27
that was a law
contained an ordinances
00:15:00.30\00:15:02.00
that was referring to the
laws of the sacrificial system
00:15:02.03\00:15:04.45
that pointed towards Christ that
were shadow of things to come.
00:15:04.48\00:15:07.68
Yes, actually the backbone
for the whole new coming.
00:15:07.71\00:15:09.75
I will write my
laws upon your heart,
00:15:09.78\00:15:11.23
upon your mind, and
I will be your guide
00:15:11.26\00:15:13.05
and you will be My people.
00:15:13.08\00:15:14.11
Yeah so-- I will give
you the lamb that I promised.
00:15:14.14\00:15:16.47
Yeah, exactly and so the
Sabbath keeping interestingly
00:15:16.50\00:15:19.55
not the Sabbath was
the sign of the grace
00:15:19.58\00:15:21.68
that we receive from God,
00:15:21.71\00:15:23.06
it's the sign
that we acknowledge
00:15:23.09\00:15:24.73
that we're not doing
the work of salvation
00:15:24.76\00:15:27.38
that God is doing it in us.
00:15:27.41\00:15:29.22
And you know like it's
says that they shall be--
00:15:29.25\00:15:31.75
they shall keep my Sabbath
00:15:31.78\00:15:32.81
and there shall be a
sign between me and them that
00:15:32.84\00:15:34.92
they might know that I am
the Lord that sanctifies them.
00:15:34.95\00:15:38.16
So by keeping the Sabbath
00:15:38.19\00:15:39.61
we acknowledge that
it's God who sanctifies us
00:15:39.64\00:15:42.14
and we not of ourselves
00:15:42.17\00:15:43.71
that's why we rest as
we resting in the work
00:15:43.74\00:15:46.95
that God promises
that He will do in us.
00:15:46.98\00:15:49.02
Amen.
00:15:49.05\00:15:50.08
When you started
keeping the Sabbath
00:15:50.11\00:15:51.69
were you attending any
Sunday keeping churches or--
00:15:51.72\00:15:55.18
At the point no I
was still on my own
00:15:55.21\00:15:57.53
just kind of coming
across the Sabbath stuff
00:15:57.56\00:15:59.42
and I think I had been keeping
00:15:59.45\00:16:01.42
the Sabbath for probably
four or five may be six months
00:16:01.45\00:16:04.85
and I had come
across a video online
00:16:04.88\00:16:08.71
and here is this guy
preaching to a whole crowd
00:16:08.74\00:16:12.02
for the people
probably 100-200 people
00:16:12.05\00:16:13.78
about the same things
00:16:13.81\00:16:14.84
that I have been
studying about Bible prophecy
00:16:14.87\00:16:16.40
about the antichrist
and the Mark of the Beast
00:16:16.43\00:16:18.23
and the Sabbath and--
00:16:18.26\00:16:19.71
So you got me curious
who would this guy be?
00:16:19.74\00:16:21.94
And so well, this guy
was Pastor Doug Batchelor.
00:16:21.97\00:16:24.83
Really.
00:16:24.86\00:16:25.89
And so I had--
it just shocked me
00:16:25.92\00:16:28.43
because I had never even
heard of this stuff hardly
00:16:28.46\00:16:31.51
for not very
long but I dint know
00:16:31.54\00:16:32.74
that there is a whole
Christian denomination out there
00:16:32.77\00:16:34.66
that actually
taught these things.
00:16:34.69\00:16:36.94
And so that was
pretty interesting
00:16:36.97\00:16:39.42
and so I think it--
then I had start studying--
00:16:39.45\00:16:41.78
So was in a situation
where you were studying
00:16:41.81\00:16:43.70
with some Adventist
and then spoon fed you
00:16:43.73\00:16:46.28
"their theological ideas"
00:16:46.31\00:16:48.06
you came across this
directly by your own study
00:16:48.09\00:16:50.47
and then just was making
comparison with different things
00:16:50.50\00:16:53.35
you were looking at
different churches and--
00:16:53.38\00:16:55.95
Yeah, it was me trying
to make sense of the Bible
00:16:55.98\00:16:58.39
and the Holy
Spirit really teaching me
00:16:58.42\00:17:00.51
and just like he
promised the word,
00:17:00.54\00:17:02.07
you know, that when,
00:17:02.10\00:17:03.13
he the spirit
of truth will come,
00:17:03.16\00:17:04.29
he will lead you into
truth and show you things come.
00:17:04.32\00:17:07.56
So was just me God trying
to make sense of everything
00:17:07.59\00:17:10.98
but I'm glad also
that God let me go
00:17:11.01\00:17:14.87
plough through all
that other stuff too
00:17:14.90\00:17:16.77
all the wrong things
because that way I knew that
00:17:16.80\00:17:19.02
when I got to the right
thing I knew that it was right.
00:17:19.05\00:17:21.21
So did you start after you start
keeping the Sabbath you start
00:17:21.24\00:17:24.80
church hoping some
looking around for places
00:17:24.83\00:17:26.90
that might be teaching
the same kind of message
00:17:26.93\00:17:28.63
that you heard on the internet?
00:17:28.66\00:17:31.01
It was probably a
while still before
00:17:31.04\00:17:33.60
I went to an Adventist church.
00:17:33.63\00:17:36.72
Hence, once I did
00:17:36.75\00:17:38.59
I was still not
satisfied with that point
00:17:38.62\00:17:40.59
and I thought it was in Colorado
00:17:40.62\00:17:42.12
but then later I
move to Los Angeles
00:17:42.15\00:17:43.66
one of the first
Adventist churches
00:17:43.69\00:17:45.07
I really started
going to seriously
00:17:45.10\00:17:47.57
was at the Carter Report in L.A.
00:17:47.60\00:17:49.71
and that was huge blessing
because that was one church
00:17:49.74\00:17:54.13
that I found that
was really preaching
00:17:54.16\00:17:56.15
the three angels messages,
was preaching the truth
00:17:56.18\00:17:58.61
and Pastor John Carter was,
00:17:58.64\00:18:01.03
you know,
delivering the message straight
00:18:01.06\00:18:02.62
and that's
exactly how I ended here.
00:18:02.65\00:18:04.23
Well, somewhere
along in all this
00:18:04.26\00:18:05.94
the spiritual journey of yours
00:18:05.97\00:18:07.27
you were still
involved with editing
00:18:07.30\00:18:09.03
and working in the industry,
00:18:09.06\00:18:10.35
you were in Colorado for a while
00:18:10.38\00:18:11.66
and came back and
working in LA and you said that,
00:18:11.69\00:18:13.93
your house was
literally like a stones throw
00:18:13.96\00:18:15.78
from one of the
major film producers.
00:18:15.81\00:18:18.41
Yeah, from Warner Brothers.
00:18:18.44\00:18:19.47
Warner Brothers,
they are like down there
00:18:19.50\00:18:20.93
and so you were like right
in the middle of all this stuff.
00:18:20.96\00:18:23.23
And you were in
the middle of all this
00:18:23.26\00:18:24.73
the industry down
there and you're searching
00:18:24.76\00:18:27.51
and you started going
through the Carter Report
00:18:27.54\00:18:30.04
and you told me that about
somewhere around in this time
00:18:30.07\00:18:34.22
you actually were involved
with doing like your own film.
00:18:34.25\00:18:36.51
It was like a short film.
00:18:36.54\00:18:37.65
Was that before this experience
00:18:37.68\00:18:39.28
where you started
setting for the truth?
00:18:39.31\00:18:40.64
That was, that
was just before I had,
00:18:40.67\00:18:44.21
went through that thing with
relationship and come to God.
00:18:44.24\00:18:47.11
I was-- that was in 2005,
when I produced and directed
00:18:47.14\00:18:49.60
the short film called "Cabin 6."
00:18:49.63\00:18:51.03
And that was--
00:18:51.06\00:18:52.09
won several different
short film awards, right?
00:18:52.12\00:18:54.59
Yeah, that one went to
some different film festivals
00:18:54.62\00:18:57.52
and did pretty
well in some cases so--
00:18:57.55\00:19:00.39
In fact I think if some of you
have seen the movie Fireproof,
00:19:00.42\00:19:04.44
Vision Video is
packing the production
00:19:04.47\00:19:06.70
that Mick made called "Cabin 6"
00:19:06.73\00:19:08.43
as part of that package now,
00:19:08.46\00:19:10.13
because it's--
what is its story about?
00:19:10.16\00:19:12.11
Yeah, it's the story
about a middle aged couple
00:19:12.14\00:19:14.51
go on the verge of divorce.
00:19:14.54\00:19:15.80
And so it deals
with marital issues
00:19:15.83\00:19:17.36
and marriage and
so I think that's why
00:19:17.39\00:19:18.73
they've decide to
package it with Fireproof.
00:19:18.76\00:19:20.43
And that was like
right on the very beginning
00:19:20.46\00:19:22.07
of your spiritual
journey when you kind of raking
00:19:22.10\00:19:24.11
that you were you started
to wake up spiritually with
00:19:24.14\00:19:26.65
as far as wanting to
give your life to Christ
00:19:26.68\00:19:27.99
Yeah, it was shortly after I've
finished that project that--
00:19:28.02\00:19:30.79
So how in the world,
you know, here you're in LA
00:19:30.82\00:19:33.09
and I have to just
really quickly tell the viewers
00:19:33.12\00:19:35.08
one of the big challenges
00:19:35.11\00:19:36.14
that we have here
at the ministry is that
00:19:36.17\00:19:38.77
we live in a pretty
isolated place in North Idaho
00:19:38.80\00:19:41.38
and we lost our
studio tech that September
00:19:41.41\00:19:44.68
of the year that
you were down in LA
00:19:44.71\00:19:46.28
having a lot of
these things happening
00:19:46.31\00:19:47.69
and we didn't
have a studio tech here
00:19:47.72\00:19:49.48
for almost four months.
00:19:49.51\00:19:50.97
And so that means our
production was falling behind,
00:19:51.00\00:19:53.27
new programs weren't been made
00:19:53.30\00:19:54.69
and we had videos that needed
to be produced for overseas,
00:19:54.72\00:19:56.80
mission projects
00:19:56.83\00:19:57.88
and we were praying
and praying as a group here
00:19:57.91\00:19:59.62
praying that
somebody would come.
00:19:59.65\00:20:01.38
At this time you
are going through this
00:20:01.41\00:20:02.93
spiritual journey down in LA,
00:20:02.96\00:20:04.74
and how is it that we ended up
00:20:04.77\00:20:07.50
getting
connected with each other
00:20:07.53\00:20:08.79
and how is it that you ended up
00:20:08.82\00:20:10.20
in North Idaho working
with Laymen Ministries?
00:20:10.23\00:20:13.89
Well, it was
about the end of 2008
00:20:13.92\00:20:15.58
I just finished a year
doing some editing work
00:20:15.61\00:20:19.51
for this Japanese
game show in Los Angeles.
00:20:19.54\00:20:23.39
It was a fun job but I was--
00:20:23.42\00:20:27.43
had done another
short job editing after that
00:20:27.46\00:20:29.80
for probably about a month so.
00:20:29.83\00:20:31.26
So remember one
day when I was talking
00:20:31.29\00:20:32.79
with these lady Nancy
00:20:32.82\00:20:33.99
and she was working on a
project with Dough Bachelor,
00:20:34.02\00:20:36.33
on Amazing Facts
for a video series.
00:20:36.36\00:20:38.10
She was doing animation
and I had mentioned to her
00:20:38.13\00:20:40.44
you know that we really needed
a studio person to work here.
00:20:40.47\00:20:42.91
And I was just wondering
00:20:42.94\00:20:44.09
you know and praying about
00:20:44.12\00:20:45.15
and wondering if
she knew anybody.
00:20:45.18\00:20:46.21
And she said I
think I know somebody
00:20:46.24\00:20:47.76
there is a guy
called Michael McCaffrey.
00:20:47.79\00:20:49.82
You know, he's been--
you applied for your work
00:20:49.85\00:20:52.30
may be to get on with the
team down there right with
00:20:52.33\00:20:54.53
production with Amazing
Facts or some like that was?
00:20:54.56\00:20:57.33
Yeah, I think
that was maybe in 2007,
00:20:57.36\00:20:59.69
you know, the year before that
00:20:59.72\00:21:01.40
when I first contacted
Nancy at the Amazing Facts.
00:21:01.43\00:21:04.20
And because it
was about working on
00:21:04.23\00:21:05.85
what later became the
Cosmic Conflict project.
00:21:05.88\00:21:08.20
And so what did Nancy-- And so--
00:21:08.23\00:21:10.54
well when I was in Los Angeles
00:21:10.57\00:21:12.55
I'd where I
started studying prophecy
00:21:12.58\00:21:14.29
and that's, like
moving to the country
00:21:14.32\00:21:16.87
and specifically the
Abomination of Desolation issue.
00:21:16.90\00:21:19.44
And what the
ramifications of that for us
00:21:19.47\00:21:22.92
living here in 2010.
00:21:22.95\00:21:25.16
And so I was
realizing that think
00:21:25.19\00:21:27.08
you know God's
calling out of the cities.
00:21:27.11\00:21:29.58
So as I began to
study that I began to study
00:21:29.61\00:21:32.68
you know well if I
was gonna leave the city
00:21:32.71\00:21:34.76
where I would I go
because most of my interest
00:21:34.79\00:21:38.32
and objectives were
to continue in the film.
00:21:38.35\00:21:41.39
Hence the idea of leaving
00:21:41.42\00:21:44.22
the industry or
leaving Los Angeles
00:21:44.25\00:21:45.87
is kind of going
into the new other county
00:21:45.90\00:21:47.91
there is like
really no film or video
00:21:47.94\00:21:49.65
and media opportunities,
out in no other words.
00:21:49.68\00:21:53.42
You are so interesting Mike,
you say that because it's just
00:21:53.45\00:21:55.98
the opposite of what
we were finding. Yeah.
00:21:56.01\00:21:57.61
As we were contacting
all of these college students
00:21:57.64\00:21:59.84
you know that
were graduating from
00:21:59.87\00:22:02.25
TV technology
courses at the universities
00:22:02.28\00:22:05.12
and they were
really excited about coming
00:22:05.15\00:22:06.78
because we want to tap in into
00:22:06.81\00:22:08.53
you know newer
type of editing styles
00:22:08.56\00:22:11.49
and really
professional really tap in some
00:22:11.52\00:22:14.42
quality production capabilities.
00:22:14.45\00:22:16.25
And some of these young people
coming out of the universities
00:22:16.28\00:22:18.46
have that capability.
00:22:18.49\00:22:19.60
And they are like "oh
Jeff, we would to come
00:22:19.63\00:22:21.27
and work up in your ministry
this would be so great."
00:22:21.30\00:22:23.47
And then they
would ask some like
00:22:23.50\00:22:24.78
"so how big is the
church that you attend there."
00:22:24.81\00:22:27.68
And I am like,
"you know 40 people."
00:22:27.71\00:22:30.10
"Well, how big
is the youth group?"
00:22:30.13\00:22:31.94
Youth group? Yeah.
00:22:31.97\00:22:33.46
Well, how far is
Taco Bell from your house
00:22:33.49\00:22:35.54
where we work?
00:22:35.57\00:22:36.60
And like Taco Bell
is an hour and a halfway
00:22:36.63\00:22:38.77
and the nearest big town. Yeah.
00:22:38.80\00:22:41.10
"Where do you live anyhow?"
00:22:41.13\00:22:42.78
And all of these
really talented young people
00:22:42.81\00:22:46.01
didn't want move
to woods of Idaho
00:22:46.04\00:22:48.13
because it was too
isolated for them socially.
00:22:48.16\00:22:50.94
And here you
were studying things
00:22:50.97\00:22:53.53
that were Adventist
and biblical related
00:22:53.56\00:22:56.42
and you were wanting to make
that move in that direction.
00:22:56.45\00:23:00.00
Yeah, one of the things
00:23:00.03\00:23:01.15
that I just really need to know
00:23:01.18\00:23:02.72
from God was if
You wanted me to move
00:23:02.75\00:23:05.09
and if You wanted me to leave
00:23:05.12\00:23:06.51
and that's really
what I needed to know.
00:23:06.54\00:23:08.54
And when I was studying
00:23:08.57\00:23:09.78
you know the idea of leaving
00:23:09.81\00:23:10.99
the city for a
place in a country
00:23:11.02\00:23:13.22
I quickly realized that
that was well beyond my means
00:23:13.25\00:23:16.98
to find a piece of property
00:23:17.01\00:23:18.58
and like 20 acres
with wooded property.
00:23:18.61\00:23:20.80
And you know small
house with running water
00:23:20.83\00:23:22.72
and no water and
all these things.
00:23:22.75\00:23:25.18
And so I
basically had prayed to God,
00:23:25.21\00:23:28.19
I said I don't know
if you're calling me
00:23:28.22\00:23:29.95
to leave this
city. I feel liked it.
00:23:29.98\00:23:32.67
But I have looked
at it and researched it
00:23:32.70\00:23:36.30
and its way beyond
my ability and my means.
00:23:36.33\00:23:39.26
And so I said, I can't go
00:23:39.29\00:23:42.35
if I wanted to so
if You want me to go
00:23:42.38\00:23:44.90
then You have to open up
an opportunity for me to go.
00:23:44.93\00:23:47.78
And I said if You do
that then I will move.
00:23:47.81\00:23:51.75
And it was just a
couple of weeks after that
00:23:51.78\00:23:53.64
when I had heard back from Nancy
00:23:53.67\00:23:55.54
and she emailed me and said
00:23:55.57\00:23:56.88
"hey, I have a
friend in Northern Idaho
00:23:56.91\00:23:58.85
who has a studio out there."
00:23:58.88\00:24:00.14
And so and then you
said to me one of the things
00:24:00.17\00:24:03.26
you said is that you own
a property about 20 acres.
00:24:03.29\00:24:05.86
It's wooded
property that has well water
00:24:05.89\00:24:07.80
and small house
that I can live in.
00:24:07.83\00:24:10.08
And so in that way God
had answered that prayer
00:24:10.11\00:24:13.53
and said to me basically that
00:24:13.56\00:24:15.93
"yes this is it this is
where I want you to be "
00:24:15.96\00:24:18.34
And the timing was so amazing
00:24:18.37\00:24:19.56
because you were
telling me like the lease was
00:24:19.59\00:24:21.11
just running out for your rental
00:24:21.14\00:24:22.79
and you had just a
window of opportunity
00:24:22.82\00:24:24.59
either renew the
lease or vacate. Yeah.
00:24:24.62\00:24:27.76
And you flew up here
to check out the ministry.
00:24:27.79\00:24:29.99
And I came up in February
when it was cold and snowy
00:24:30.02\00:24:33.25
and rainy and you got to
see that it's very worst. Yeah.
00:24:33.28\00:24:36.15
Beautiful here at
this time of year.
00:24:36.18\00:24:37.85
And you made a
decision to come here
00:24:37.88\00:24:40.59
and you were here, you
came up with U haul truck,
00:24:40.62\00:24:42.94
with your mom and then
loaded your stuff and then boom.
00:24:42.97\00:24:45.49
You know next day
you know week later
00:24:45.52\00:24:47.92
we were off on airplane
heading to the Philippines
00:24:47.95\00:24:50.41
for three-and-half weeks
doing a video shoot. Yeah.
00:24:50.44\00:24:53.03
And so was that a
pretty big culture shock
00:24:53.06\00:24:55.23
for you moving to Idaho
00:24:55.26\00:24:56.39
and have you been able to adapt
00:24:56.42\00:24:57.77
to remote
wilderness lifestyle up here?
00:24:57.80\00:25:01.07
Yeah, going from a
city of like Los Angeles
00:25:01.10\00:25:03.32
all the way up to a small town
00:25:03.35\00:25:04.78
of 2,500 people
was a big change.
00:25:04.81\00:25:07.86
And but it's been good.
00:25:07.89\00:25:11.56
You know, I love
living in the country
00:25:11.59\00:25:14.15
has it pros and cons
00:25:14.18\00:25:15.28
but clearly I knew
that God wanted me here.
00:25:15.31\00:25:18.22
And so that I was really--
00:25:18.25\00:25:19.83
the only thing that I needed
to know is where God wants me.
00:25:19.86\00:25:22.22
So what was it like for
you all of a sudden to be
00:25:22.25\00:25:25.70
in some place
like the Philippines?
00:25:25.73\00:25:27.01
You know we go over to this
00:25:27.04\00:25:28.19
you know you don't even know me,
00:25:28.22\00:25:29.70
you're going to go
really behind the scenes
00:25:29.73\00:25:31.75
the cameraman sees all the good
00:25:31.78\00:25:32.99
or the bad they ugly everything
00:25:33.02\00:25:34.48
and you're shooting
video what was your,
00:25:34.51\00:25:36.84
your take on
seeing Laymen Ministries
00:25:36.87\00:25:38.84
behind the scenes
and starting to see
00:25:38.87\00:25:40.51
what this
missionaries were doing
00:25:40.54\00:25:41.71
and putting
these videos together?
00:25:41.74\00:25:43.88
Well, when we
went to the Philippines
00:25:43.91\00:25:45.58
it was honestly
like the cultural aspects
00:25:45.61\00:25:49.05
and differences
weren't as surprising to me
00:25:49.08\00:25:52.02
or I think as a
contrast between the work
00:25:52.05\00:25:55.70
that the
ministry was doing there
00:25:55.73\00:25:56.91
and some of the people
and villages on the outskirts
00:25:56.94\00:25:59.94
where the mission project was
00:25:59.97\00:26:01.47
that weren't directly
involved with the mission work.
00:26:01.50\00:26:04.52
And the contrast
that I saw was that
00:26:04.55\00:26:06.47
the kids in the
villages were healthy
00:26:06.50\00:26:09.39
and they were happy
and they were bright eyed
00:26:09.42\00:26:11.18
and they were
vocal and laughing.
00:26:11.21\00:26:12.97
And so on the
outskirts of the villages
00:26:13.00\00:26:15.10
of the mission project
though there's other villages
00:26:15.13\00:26:17.78
and the people out
there are still living
00:26:17.81\00:26:20.29
even in far more
primitive conditions,
00:26:20.32\00:26:22.16
the hygiene isn't is great.
00:26:22.19\00:26:24.43
Their cloths that they have them
00:26:24.46\00:26:26.22
are very rotted
and torn and dirty.
00:26:26.25\00:26:28.91
You can see that the
missionaries were having
00:26:28.94\00:26:30.80
a profound effect in the areas
00:26:30.83\00:26:32.19
with the people
they were working.
00:26:32.22\00:26:34.87
Yeah exactly and so--
00:26:34.90\00:26:35.95
You said, even
affected the dogs.
00:26:35.98\00:26:38.21
Yeah, that was one of
the most interesting things
00:26:38.24\00:26:40.23
is that the dogs in the villages
had you know bright quotes
00:26:40.26\00:26:43.99
and running around
and playing and playful
00:26:44.02\00:26:47.51
and then there was
I remember this dog
00:26:47.54\00:26:49.25
that was out in
the village somewhere
00:26:49.28\00:26:51.72
outside the mission project
and he was just skin and bone
00:26:51.75\00:26:55.07
and he had like his
flies are flying around him.
00:26:55.10\00:26:56.57
So even the dogs were
benefited by the regulations?
00:26:56.60\00:26:59.11
Yeah, it's just
proves to amazing,
00:26:59.14\00:27:00.96
you know when that
light of truth comes in
00:27:00.99\00:27:03.23
how it just
changes peoples lives
00:27:03.26\00:27:05.24
and its changes
people lives around them
00:27:05.27\00:27:07.63
and it even changes the
animals it's just amazing.
00:27:07.66\00:27:10.44
Well, our time is just about
up for this particular interview
00:27:10.47\00:27:12.76
but Mike story to me
is just really fascinating
00:27:12.79\00:27:15.22
to show how God
can lead a person,
00:27:15.25\00:27:16.98
who honestly starts to
open the Bible for themselves,
00:27:17.01\00:27:19.61
you know, without any outside
influences or anything that.
00:27:19.64\00:27:21.71
That starts comparing
scripture with scripture
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.94
and then start putting together
00:27:23.97\00:27:25.48
the pieces of
the puzzle of truth
00:27:25.51\00:27:27.67
to be able to lead us to
a relationship with Christ
00:27:27.70\00:27:29.69
and the precious
truth for this time.
00:27:29.72\00:27:31.70
In our next episode
we're gonna talk about
00:27:31.73\00:27:33.60
some of the opportunities
00:27:33.63\00:27:34.95
the ministry has in
being able to reach out
00:27:34.98\00:27:37.67
to lot of different people using
00:27:37.70\00:27:39.30
the technology
that's available today,
00:27:39.33\00:27:41.41
via the internet
and video streaming
00:27:41.44\00:27:43.99
and video production.
00:27:44.02\00:27:45.53
We know you're really
gonna enjoy the next episode.
00:27:45.56\00:27:48.08
If you really want to get
involved with this ministry
00:27:48.11\00:27:50.07
I would just
encourage you to write
00:27:50.10\00:27:51.36
or call us at Laymen Ministries,
00:27:51.39\00:27:52.86
that's at 414 Zapada Road,
00:27:52.89\00:27:55.10
St. Maries, Idaho 83861
00:27:55.13\00:27:57.57
or call us on
our toll free number
00:27:57.60\00:27:58.80
1-800-245-1844.
00:27:58.83\00:28:01.92
You can also contact on
us worldwide web www.lmn.org.
00:28:01.95\00:28:07.54