(upbeat music)
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- We have in our studio,
Pastor Johnson from India,
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it's been a long time
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since you've been
here, Pastor Johnson.
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- Yes, over four years.
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- Four years because of COVID.
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And some of you're
probably a little bit surprised
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to see Jeff's got a beard,
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but this has been
my COVID protest beard.
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But we're gonna
cover a couple things
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about the work in India
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and what we've been
doing there for, how long now?
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It's like almost
35 years or something.
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- Yes, almost over 35 years.
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- Yeah.
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- The journey since 1993. - Yep.
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- With pastor Shadrach.
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Then since 2001...
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- Been a long time
since we've done an interview
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in the studio, because
COVID, it shut everything down.
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And then we haven't been
traveling to overseas countries
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and if you watch Laymen
Ministries programs on 3ABN
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or YouTube or some
of the cable networks,
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you know that we've been
doing reruns over and over.
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So we're glad that
we're in the studio
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and we're shooting something
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and be able to give
you a fresh understanding
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of some of the things
that have developed in India
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since the last time
we actually produced
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one of our travel videos.
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But I met you, what was it?
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1996?
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- 1996, we met in
the City of Chennai
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where Pastor Shadrach and myself
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we're holding
evangelistic meeting.
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So that time you
came with Pastor Shadrach.
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So that was the
first time we were meeting.
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- Yeah, before that,
from 1994 till that time,
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we took on Pastor
Shadrach as part of our project
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with Laymen Ministries
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and we were helping
him to do evangelism.
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I mean, those days we
were free to do a lot of stuff.
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We had big evangelistic
meetings in the streets
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and showing the Jesus film
and doing all kinds of things.
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And we started
duplicating audio CDs.
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- [Johnson] Yes.
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- And distributing
them amongst people.
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But when I met you, we
were at a mutual friend's house.
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This was a long time ago.
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- [Johnson] Yeah.
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- And you and I came
up with an idea, actually,
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I think I was a...
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Anyhow what was
about the television work
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we were talking about
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maybe trying to start television
programs or something.
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- Yes, because we met
in one of our friends' home
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and we were talking
about the television in India.
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And Dr. Jacob, Reach
International, he was there
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and he was telling to you
that Pastor Johnson is here,
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he's doing a television
program, he's interested.
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Then you are asking about
what is a program and all that.
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Then Pastor Shadrak
and myself, we all joined.
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Then you told
that Laymen Ministry
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can sponsor the
television program.
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So the first
television program in a JR TV,
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one of the leading satellite
channel in India in those days.
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- Now there was some
Christian programming
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already happening in
India by evangelical churches.
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But there was no
Adventist television programs
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at that time.
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We actually kind of pioneered
that in the country there.
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And do you remember
the difficulties we had
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when we first
started, we were going,
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taking Shadrak to
different studios in Chennai,
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then trying to film him,
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and then we were getting
it on these different networks
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and they would cancel us,
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they would charging us a
phenomenal amount of money,
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and if we went
overtime, that cost more money,
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there was just
all kinds of problems.
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And so, we had
come up with this idea,
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why not build our
own television studio?
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- You are right.
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- And so what happened
over the next couple of years
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regarding that?
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- Because as he was
started the television program,
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then we started in another
language called Telugu language.
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We started
another, that TV channel
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called Good News Channel.
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It's one of the leading channel.
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And then we were producing
program for some of the cable.
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So in those days,
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the television studios
in the City of Chennai,
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you have been a couple of
times, many times to Chennai,
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not couple of times, many times,
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and Chennai is
Eastern Hollywood.
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So, that is--
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- Yeah, there's some
kind of special name for it.
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It's like Charlie Wood
or something like that.
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- [Johnson] Yes, yes.
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- Bollywood is up in Mumbay,
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- [Johnson] Mumbai
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- And Charlie Wood
is a down in Chennai.
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- It is Hollywood.
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So it is--
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- Hollywood.
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- [Johnson] Yeah.
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- I was trying to remember
what they called it down there.
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- Yeah, it is called.
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And also it is
called Eastern Hollywood.
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So it is a hundreds of
studios, but very busy.
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And also they are charging
extra monies and all that.
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And also when we
go for a recording,
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we have to
finish within a two hour
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or three hour package they give.
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And we will see the sermon
and also we see the timer.
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Because the timer
will run very fast.
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- So you're talking
faster and faster and faster.
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- [Johnson] Yeah.
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- Yeah, and then you would
be basically asked to leave
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once your time was up.
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So we built a studio and that
all kind of happened, kind of.
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I was gonna say kind of
miraculously, a friend of mine
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said, there's no such
thing as kind of miraculously.
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It is or it isn't, it was
a real miracle that happened.
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- Yes.
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- But prior to that, we
had talked about Bible workers.
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- [Johnson] Yes.
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- And we were saying
that if we had Bible workers,
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they somehow could
maybe link together
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with the television ministry,
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explain to those that don't
know about what we're doing
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about the whole,
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how did we end up getting
Bible workers started in India?
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And how many do we
have today working there?
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- Yes, today we have
over 60 Bible workers.
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- 60?
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- Yeah, Six, zero.
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And there are
some volunteers also.
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There are
part-time Bible workers
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and full-time Bible workers.
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There are some volunteers.
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But we are paying from the
Laymen Ministry, six, zero.
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That is 60 Bible
workers we are paying.
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The concept, how we came,
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the concept is, we
started the television program,
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but we are only
telling the truth
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about the three angels message.
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- And people were
watching these programs.
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I remember you said you
would go to Delhi and people go,
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oh, aren't you Pastor Johnson
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I saw in the television program?
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- Yes, people watch
our program and they call
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and every week we
get over 100 phone calls
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and they ask us
to come and pray.
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And what we are going to do,
simply preaching is not enough.
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- Yeah.
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That's one thing
people don't understand
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is that when it comes
to sharing the gospel,
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it's more than just
like a magazine or a book.
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There's always, for
people who give their life
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to Christ, generally.
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- [Johnson] Yes.
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- And join a church,
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they have come into personal
contact with other people.
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- [Johnson] Yes.
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- But you told
me, to start off with,
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you kind of experimented
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and you were paying
out of your own pocket
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to have a couple of
Bible workers or something?
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- Yes, in the
first, what we did.
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Yeah, I started, we
had a, in the beginning,
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I told you visited
one evangelistic meeting.
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That time I was a
pastor in one of the church
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in the City of
Chennai called Kodambakkam.
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So, the church was sponsoring
the evangelistic meeting.
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After that meeting,
we were given a baptism
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of over 42 people.
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And now where they
will attend the church
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and who will nurture them,
the follow work is important.
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- Yeah, we need to have
Bible workers or something.
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- Bible workers.
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So I found out two
volunteers, ladies,
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they told me, "We will do,
just give the travel expense."
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So in those days
in 1996, I gave 500.
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It is not...
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- It's not a lot
of money, but still.
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- Yeah, in those days it
is a lot of money for me.
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But for the American
dollar it is maybe nothing,
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not even a $1.
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But they were
very, very dedicated.
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They did a very nice groundwork.
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So the concept of
Bible workers came
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and today over the
method, what we are using,
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is followed by many of
the groups in our Church.
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- And we've had
a lot of baptisms,
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a lot of churches
built over the years,
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hundreds and hundreds
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of baptisms over the
years. - [Johnson] Yes.
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- And I just wanna share
with our viewers really quickly
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that as I've traveled and
I've had people approach me
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about starting
ministries overseas,
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getting involved with a project,
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I always found
out if I found people
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who are already doing
something with nothing.
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- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:09:07.58\00:09:10.61
and putting it
into doing something,
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that you could
hire those people.
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Give them a little
bit, see how they do,
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and if they keep doing
well, give more and more,
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and that's what
happened with you.
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- Yeah, right.
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- There's always
people that come up
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and they're doing nothing.
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And they say, oh, if I just
had somebody give me some money
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I could do this and that.
00:09:24.13\00:09:24.99
- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:09:24.99\00:09:25.86
- But you know a
person's hard into it
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if they're already
doing something for nothing.
00:09:27.23\00:09:30.13
So, for our viewers,
let's explain the whole process
00:09:30.13\00:09:33.10
of how the Bible workers work
with the television ministry
00:09:33.10\00:09:35.74
and the publishing ministry
00:09:35.74\00:09:36.77
and everything
that we're doing there.
00:09:36.77\00:09:37.87
What is the process?
00:09:37.87\00:09:39.14
- The process is
we are the television.
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We are producing the program.
00:09:42.84\00:09:44.38
We have our own studio.
00:09:44.38\00:09:46.18
In those days, we
didn't have a studio.
00:09:46.18\00:09:48.48
Then by God's grace,
the Laymen Ministry built
00:09:48.48\00:09:51.32
a beautiful
studio in the city of,
00:09:52.72\00:09:54.86
the northern part of Chennai.
00:09:54.86\00:09:56.62
So that's--
00:09:56.62\00:09:57.49
- How long ago
was that, we built it?
00:09:57.49\00:09:58.33
- It is almost,
now it is nine years.
00:09:58.33\00:10:02.70
- Nine years, and we
had a big celebration,
00:10:02.70\00:10:05.53
kind of a dedication for that.
00:10:05.53\00:10:07.50
- Yes, the division president
came, the division secretary,
00:10:07.50\00:10:10.61
the union president,
00:10:10.61\00:10:11.94
because it was
supported by the whole division.
00:10:11.94\00:10:15.08
It is not a kind of a one
man, It is a whole division.
00:10:15.08\00:10:18.65
Because it is a first
ever studio for a, I mean--
00:10:18.65\00:10:23.42
- [Jeff] Adventist Broadcasting.
00:10:24.79\00:10:26.65
- [Johnson] Broadcasting.
00:10:26.65\00:10:27.49
So it was very...
00:10:27.49\00:10:28.56
- [Jeff] So, the process again.
00:10:28.56\00:10:30.09
- So we have a
television program
00:10:31.03\00:10:32.79
and we are sewing the seed,
00:10:32.79\00:10:34.93
the follow up
work, the Bible workers.
00:10:34.93\00:10:37.23
Then we hold a
evangelistic meeting.
00:10:37.23\00:10:40.90
Then after the
evangelistic meeting,
00:10:40.90\00:10:43.24
put a temporary
shed for worshiping.
00:10:43.24\00:10:46.61
- When we say shed in America,
00:10:46.61\00:10:48.18
we think something you
would put goats or cows in
00:10:48.18\00:10:50.65
or storing things.
00:10:50.65\00:10:52.38
But it's like a
primitive simple church.
00:10:52.38\00:10:55.22
- [Johnson] Simple church.
00:10:55.22\00:10:56.32
- [Jeff] A kind of
roof or something like that.
00:10:56.32\00:10:57.35
- [Johnson] Yeah, kind
of a roof on the housetop
00:10:57.35\00:10:59.75
or something like that.
00:10:59.75\00:11:00.79
- [Jeff] So what's
the next step after that?
00:11:00.79\00:11:01.89
- And then after that,
we will send the publishing.
00:11:01.89\00:11:06.80
Kind of every week there
is a Bible study will go on.
00:11:08.26\00:11:11.43
So, for us, evangelism
is a complete package.
00:11:11.43\00:11:16.44
It is sewing the seed to
nurturing through Ellen White
00:11:16.97\00:11:21.98
books and also the viewers,
for the television viewers,
00:11:22.38\00:11:26.35
the Laymen Ministry
translate Ellen White books
00:11:26.35\00:11:30.05
and some of the Bible studies.
00:11:30.05\00:11:32.05
- We've been involved with
publishing literature in India
00:11:32.05\00:11:34.19
for over 30 years.
00:11:34.19\00:11:35.39
And recently we just
published some new volumes.
00:11:35.39\00:11:37.93
What were the new
books that we just printed?
00:11:37.93\00:11:39.43
- It's a "Great Controversy,"
already we had translated.
00:11:39.43\00:11:43.93
- We did the "Great
Controversy" years ago,
00:11:43.93\00:11:45.63
but it was probably not
a really great translation.
00:11:45.63\00:11:48.60
It was kind of
archaic or older town.
00:11:48.60\00:11:51.34
- Yeah, maybe older town.
00:11:51.34\00:11:52.54
It is a good, because when
we did the general conference,
00:11:52.54\00:11:57.48
President Yan Paulson
released our first copy.
00:11:57.51\00:12:01.45
- I remember that.
00:12:01.45\00:12:02.28
- It was 1998.
00:12:02.28\00:12:05.52
- A long time ago now.
00:12:05.52\00:12:06.76
- [Johnson] It
is a long time ago.
00:12:06.76\00:12:07.82
- What other books have
we printed just recently?
00:12:07.82\00:12:09.42
- Recently, now
the "Desire of ages,"
00:12:09.42\00:12:11.59
we have, did a
little modification.
00:12:11.59\00:12:14.20
The old one was very good,
00:12:14.20\00:12:15.80
but now little modification,
00:12:15.80\00:12:17.80
because some of the words are
now the younger generation use
00:12:17.80\00:12:20.94
and all that,
that's all, but our--
00:12:20.94\00:12:22.60
- But the
content stays the same.
00:12:22.60\00:12:25.17
- Same.
00:12:25.17\00:12:26.34
We didn't change any because
the first one is very good,
00:12:26.34\00:12:29.11
and the second one kind
of to the younger generation.
00:12:29.11\00:12:33.68
And put it in a three volumes,
00:12:33.68\00:12:35.65
the first, second and three,
00:12:35.65\00:12:38.29
and the "Desire of
Ages" in a two volume.
00:12:38.29\00:12:40.66
And we are planning to
have the "Ministry of Healing"
00:12:40.66\00:12:44.66
and the "Acts of Apostles"
and "Christ Object Lesson."
00:12:44.66\00:12:49.60
- Yeah, we've
actually done several runs
00:12:50.50\00:12:52.70
of amazing fact story
calls in the Tamil language.
00:12:52.70\00:12:55.57
- [Johnson] Yes.
00:12:55.57\00:12:56.60
- And a lot of other
books by other authors too.
00:12:56.60\00:12:58.91
We have a fairly large
book distribution center.
00:12:58.91\00:13:02.31
The literature and stuff,
is it getting out quite a bit?
00:13:02.31\00:13:05.88
- It is going through the world.
00:13:05.88\00:13:07.98
- All over. - France, Singapore,
00:13:07.98\00:13:09.85
Europe, Australia,
New Zealand, even America.
00:13:09.85\00:13:13.42
- Anywhere there's
Tamil speaking people.
00:13:13.42\00:13:16.06
And there's a
lot of Tamil people
00:13:16.06\00:13:17.86
all over the United States.
00:13:17.86\00:13:19.03
- Yeah, and also
recently we lost money,
00:13:19.03\00:13:24.00
this year, 2022, for
the "Desire of Ages."
00:13:24.00\00:13:27.14
We reprinted in a two volume
00:13:27.14\00:13:29.17
so that it is very easy to carry
whenever they travel and...
00:13:29.17\00:13:34.18
- You a long time
ago approached me,
00:13:35.14\00:13:37.81
and a lot of people
from the United States
00:13:37.81\00:13:39.95
were flying to
India back in those days,
00:13:39.95\00:13:41.72
in 1990s and into the 2000s,
00:13:41.72\00:13:44.29
doing big evangelistic
series and searching,
00:13:44.29\00:13:46.89
I told you that I really kind
of wasn't into that so much.
00:13:46.89\00:13:50.59
I think there's
a place for that.
00:13:50.59\00:13:51.86
And people will feel
convicted to do that.
00:13:51.86\00:13:54.23
But Laymen Ministries is
into the more of the long haul
00:13:54.23\00:13:57.43
to go in there,
help train nationals.
00:13:57.43\00:13:59.33
And you said about evangelism,
00:13:59.33\00:14:01.34
how we could do evangelism
00:14:01.34\00:14:02.67
for how much money
back in those days?
00:14:02.67\00:14:04.24
- Yeah, $1,000, American dollar.
00:14:04.24\00:14:07.58
- And I said, you could do a
full blown evangelistic series
00:14:07.58\00:14:11.08
for $1,000? - [Johnson] Yes.
00:14:11.08\00:14:12.68
- I mean, that was less
than one airplane ticket
00:14:12.68\00:14:14.85
for somebody from
overseas to come there
00:14:14.85\00:14:17.02
and speak at
evangelistic series.
00:14:17.02\00:14:18.99
- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:14:18.99\00:14:20.12
- And the advantage to
that is that it's Tamil people
00:14:20.12\00:14:22.72
working with Tamil people
00:14:22.72\00:14:23.86
or Hindi people
working with Hindi people.
00:14:23.86\00:14:26.03
It's your people, your culture,
just makes more sense to me.
00:14:26.03\00:14:29.30
- Yeah, it is.
00:14:29.30\00:14:30.30
Since we have Bible workers,
00:14:30.30\00:14:32.33
they will do the groundwork
and they do the follow work.
00:14:32.33\00:14:35.87
So this money is
only for the hall.
00:14:35.87\00:14:39.97
We will hire a marriage hall
to hold a meeting for 10 days
00:14:39.97\00:14:43.31
or 15 days.
00:14:43.31\00:14:44.51
So all Bible workers taken care
00:14:44.51\00:14:47.85
by the regular Bible workers.
00:14:47.85\00:14:49.62
- But evangelism's not
quite so easy these days, is it?
00:14:49.62\00:14:52.75
- Yes, it is.
00:14:52.75\00:14:53.59
Yeah, now it is
kind of difficult.
00:14:53.59\00:14:56.99
- But then along came COVID.
00:14:56.99\00:14:59.76
And so how did COVID
affect our evangelism
00:14:59.76\00:15:02.86
and our Bible workers?
00:15:02.86\00:15:04.13
- Maybe, I
think as far as India,
00:15:05.13\00:15:09.10
I can say it is not
affected anything, it was--
00:15:09.10\00:15:13.27
- Were you shut
down for a while?
00:15:13.27\00:15:14.51
I mean like several
months or something?
00:15:14.51\00:15:16.41
- Definitely, first three
months completely shut down.
00:15:16.41\00:15:20.48
But for your information,
our team, our Bible workers,
00:15:20.48\00:15:24.92
we were active.
00:15:24.92\00:15:26.62
- What were they
doing if you're shut down?
00:15:26.62\00:15:28.96
- Like our studio, we are
not able to go to the studio,
00:15:28.96\00:15:33.03
but the studio technician,
they took all the camera,
00:15:33.03\00:15:36.10
everything in their home,
and nearby there were pastors.
00:15:36.10\00:15:40.90
So they will walk and go
record a program upload--
00:15:40.90\00:15:45.51
- Doing things on location.
00:15:45.51\00:15:46.61
- So, it is--
00:15:46.61\00:15:48.88
- So what were the
Bible workers doing
00:15:48.88\00:15:50.08
if they couldn't go out two
by two, like they normally do?
00:15:50.08\00:15:52.41
- The Bible workers
morning, five to six.
00:15:52.41\00:15:56.45
It is a one hour
prayer in the Zoom.
00:15:56.45\00:15:59.82
Then after--
00:15:59.82\00:16:00.79
- [Jeff] They have a
prayer meeting on a Zoom
00:16:00.79\00:16:02.52
with a computer?
00:16:02.52\00:16:03.36
- [Johnson] Computer.
00:16:03.36\00:16:04.19
- Interesting.
00:16:04.19\00:16:05.33
- And still for your
information, still it's
00:16:05.33\00:16:09.03
continuing. It is over now
almost three years is going to
00:16:09.03\00:16:12.37
come-- - Were they doing Bible
studies and such that way too?
00:16:12.37\00:16:14.07
- It is only prayer.
00:16:14.07\00:16:15.90
Prayer for all the
house they're visiting.
00:16:15.90\00:16:19.01
It is kind of a one
hour complete prayer.
00:16:19.01\00:16:23.21
Then what happen, so afternoon,
00:16:23.21\00:16:25.58
we'll have a
prayer, like 12:00 to 12:30,
00:16:25.58\00:16:28.12
then evening, I
think before go to the bed,
00:16:28.12\00:16:31.79
it is 9:00 to 9:45.
00:16:31.79\00:16:34.52
So there are three
prayer for the Bible workers.
00:16:34.52\00:16:38.16
The Bible worker in the
daytime, what they will do,
00:16:38.16\00:16:41.40
they get the phone
numbers and through WhatsApp,
00:16:41.40\00:16:44.83
through Zoom, they
will give the Bible study.
00:16:44.83\00:16:47.67
- So people have the
technology in the India
00:16:47.67\00:16:51.04
to do a Bible study over Zoom?
00:16:51.04\00:16:52.84
I mean, how is that possible?
00:16:52.84\00:16:55.38
- It's possible because
we did have over 100 meeting.
00:16:55.38\00:17:00.32
I think it is very,
every day it's meeting only.
00:17:00.32\00:17:04.09
- And they're doing
it with like the people
00:17:04.09\00:17:06.35
that are Bible study contacts,
00:17:06.35\00:17:07.46
they are doing on a computer
or a phone or something?
00:17:07.46\00:17:09.59
- It is a phone,
not computer, I think--
00:17:09.59\00:17:11.49
- Mostly phones?
00:17:11.49\00:17:12.33
- Mostly phones.
00:17:12.33\00:17:13.53
- And so people are
actually communicating
00:17:13.53\00:17:15.33
with your Bible workers,
00:17:15.33\00:17:16.46
like on WhatsApp or one of
those kind of applications.
00:17:16.46\00:17:19.37
And then they, do they
ever do like meetings that way,
00:17:19.37\00:17:23.24
like evangelistic meetings?
00:17:23.24\00:17:24.87
- Yes, Laymen
Ministry alone conducted.
00:17:24.87\00:17:28.34
And every, in one meeting,
00:17:28.34\00:17:30.51
the attendance was
close to 300, because--
00:17:30.51\00:17:34.05
- You had more,
just as many people
00:17:34.05\00:17:35.82
coming to a, not a Zoom meeting,
but at WhatsApp meeting--
00:17:35.82\00:17:39.42
- [Johnson] Yes.
00:17:39.42\00:17:40.52
- As we did in, more
recently just doing evangelism
00:17:40.52\00:17:42.66
and asking people to come to
an outdoor evangelistic series.
00:17:42.66\00:17:46.83
Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
00:17:46.83\00:17:47.86
- Yeah, it is very interesting.
00:17:47.86\00:17:49.63
And also, even through the
meeting, we gave a baptism also.
00:17:49.63\00:17:54.64
We gave a baptism,
there is a good baptism.
00:17:54.87\00:17:57.44
So in the
lockdown, it is not affected.
00:17:57.44\00:18:00.91
And also in the lockdown,
00:18:00.91\00:18:03.51
the Laymen Ministry
was paying the full salary.
00:18:03.51\00:18:06.55
Even some of the pastors,
00:18:07.45\00:18:09.35
some of the people are getting
half of this salary, but--
00:18:09.35\00:18:12.59
- These Bible workers,
our Bible worker teams,
00:18:12.59\00:18:15.66
and I've known
these, the ladies,
00:18:15.66\00:18:17.13
mostly ladies
that are Bible workers.
00:18:17.13\00:18:19.86
Some of 'em been
working with our ministry
00:18:19.86\00:18:21.36
for 22, 24, 25
years. - [Johnson] Yes.
00:18:21.36\00:18:24.83
- And these
ladies are dedicated.
00:18:24.83\00:18:26.94
They have prayer in the morning.
00:18:26.94\00:18:28.24
They get on crowded
railroad trains and buses
00:18:28.24\00:18:31.81
and go to a
certain area of a city
00:18:31.81\00:18:33.48
and work all day
long, going door to door.
00:18:33.48\00:18:35.54
People are slamming the door
shut in their faces sometimes.
00:18:35.54\00:18:38.41
- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:18:38.41\00:18:39.55
- But they've had some
pretty interesting experiences.
00:18:39.55\00:18:42.22
Do you have any like
recent stories of some things?
00:18:42.22\00:18:44.82
- Yes, because
for your information,
00:18:44.82\00:18:48.36
there are few Bible workers,
00:18:48.36\00:18:50.36
they have to travel
every day over 30 miles.
00:18:50.36\00:18:55.26
- Wow, one direction.
00:18:55.26\00:18:56.90
- [Johnson] To and fro.
00:18:56.90\00:18:58.10
- Oh, to and fro, so
it's 15 miles one way--
00:18:58.10\00:18:59.93
- [Johnson] 15 miles of it.
00:18:59.93\00:19:00.84
- 30 miles.
00:19:00.84\00:19:01.74
- [Johnson] 30 miles.
00:19:01.74\00:19:02.60
And it is by bus
and they have to walk
00:19:02.60\00:19:06.31
and they have to take
a share auto, I mean--
00:19:06.31\00:19:09.51
- Which is like
a, what they call,
00:19:09.51\00:19:11.15
we call it like a auto
Rick-shaw, it's a little--
00:19:11.15\00:19:13.28
- [Johnson] Yes.
00:19:13.28\00:19:14.12
- Tricycle.
00:19:14.12\00:19:14.95
- Yeah, so it is kind of,
00:19:14.95\00:19:16.95
but they are enjoying,
even they are able to walk
00:19:16.95\00:19:20.69
and all that.
00:19:20.69\00:19:21.79
So, recently it is, if
there were two Bible workers,
00:19:21.79\00:19:26.80
there were very
nice people, they--
00:19:29.46\00:19:32.57
- Are these are
these Bible workers
00:19:32.57\00:19:33.57
the ladies that just
recently joined our team.
00:19:33.57\00:19:35.77
- It is the recently joined.
00:19:35.77\00:19:37.97
Their name is Grace
Mary and Glory Mary.
00:19:37.97\00:19:41.51
- [Jeff] Are they related?
00:19:41.51\00:19:42.74
- [Johnson] No, they're not--
00:19:42.74\00:19:43.65
- [Jeff] But
they're both Mary's.
00:19:43.65\00:19:45.21
- They not related. - Okay.
00:19:45.21\00:19:46.41
- And one fine morning,
00:19:46.41\00:19:48.28
and they were going
to the new territory,
00:19:48.28\00:19:51.12
a new territory and
they are doing door by door.
00:19:51.12\00:19:55.56
And that morning was
a bad morning for them.
00:19:55.56\00:19:58.66
And the first house they went
and the person was not happy.
00:19:58.66\00:20:02.83
- Shut the door in their face.
00:20:03.97\00:20:05.10
- [Johnson] Yes. -
Tell 'em to go away.
00:20:05.10\00:20:06.13
- Yeah, but these
two were very strong.
00:20:06.13\00:20:08.94
And then they
went to another house
00:20:08.94\00:20:11.61
and another house was locked
00:20:11.61\00:20:13.44
and then few houses locked.
00:20:13.44\00:20:16.48
Then they were
thinking, what happened today?
00:20:16.48\00:20:18.45
Something is going wrong.
00:20:18.45\00:20:20.05
Then one house came,
the husband and wife came,
00:20:20.05\00:20:22.15
come, come, come.
00:20:22.15\00:20:24.05
So they went inside.
00:20:24.05\00:20:26.29
Suddenly they locked the
door, and locked the door,
00:20:26.29\00:20:30.79
took their bag and the phone.
00:20:32.19\00:20:34.20
- Were they gonna rob
'em or something or no?
00:20:35.46\00:20:37.20
- Oh, they were kind of mess up.
00:20:37.20\00:20:40.40
So immediately after
half an hour phone call came
00:20:40.40\00:20:43.61
from the supervisor,
00:20:44.97\00:20:46.11
because we have a supervisor
for all our Bible workers,
00:20:46.11\00:20:50.95
what they are doing everyday.
00:20:50.95\00:20:52.75
So the supervisor
called me, they are missing
00:20:52.75\00:20:56.95
and they, okay, don't--
00:20:56.95\00:20:57.92
- Well, the ladies
did have their cell phones
00:20:57.92\00:20:59.79
taken from 'em,
so-- - [Johnson] Yes.
00:20:59.79\00:21:01.36
- They just
disappeared, kind of.
00:21:01.36\00:21:02.66
- They
disappeared, they cannot call.
00:21:02.66\00:21:04.39
Then what we do
because they were new
00:21:05.76\00:21:08.86
and we have to
inform to their family.
00:21:08.86\00:21:11.43
And so it's a
difficult situation.
00:21:11.43\00:21:13.94
So even the conference
president informed a few people
00:21:13.94\00:21:17.94
and we are all gathered
00:21:17.94\00:21:20.14
and we prayed
endlessly, Lord, do some favor.
00:21:20.14\00:21:25.15
- So what
happened to these girls?
00:21:25.25\00:21:27.28
- And then we were searching,
00:21:27.28\00:21:28.95
then four o'clock they
were in the police station.
00:21:28.95\00:21:31.49
In police station,
and when they were inside,
00:21:33.39\00:21:37.23
the husband and wife tell them,
00:21:37.23\00:21:38.83
why were you gone, what
you are doing and fighting.
00:21:38.83\00:21:43.06
And they told, we are just
sharing the health message.
00:21:43.06\00:21:46.87
No, you are doing that.
00:21:46.87\00:21:49.14
This, so kind of...
00:21:49.14\00:21:51.47
- Making accusations against--
00:21:51.47\00:21:52.81
- [Johnson] Accusation.
00:21:52.81\00:21:53.74
And took them to
the police station.
00:21:53.74\00:21:55.01
Then police inspected us.
00:21:55.01\00:21:57.65
What is the fault?
00:21:57.65\00:21:59.81
And no, sir, check,
this is a magazine we gave.
00:21:59.81\00:22:04.15
Okay, then everybody started--
00:22:04.15\00:22:05.29
- So the police inspector
is looking at the magazine.
00:22:05.29\00:22:07.66
- [Johnson] Magazine
and all the inspector,
00:22:07.66\00:22:10.09
the writer, everybody's reading.
00:22:10.09\00:22:12.23
Oh, it is nothing, is there?
00:22:12.23\00:22:13.46
It is good for health.
00:22:13.46\00:22:15.50
It's a "New
Start" magazine actually.
00:22:15.50\00:22:18.17
And it is,
everybody's reading and no--
00:22:18.17\00:22:21.50
- You mean the
police in the station?
00:22:21.50\00:22:23.44
Police station. - Yeah.
00:22:23.44\00:22:24.47
Then they said, "Okay,
you can go peacefully."
00:22:24.47\00:22:26.51
- You just go. - Yeah.
00:22:26.51\00:22:27.71
- So these people were really
stirring up a lot of trouble
00:22:27.71\00:22:30.25
against these ladies.
00:22:30.25\00:22:31.61
Were they pretty
discouraged by this whole thing?
00:22:31.61\00:22:33.65
- Sir, imagine I was worried.
00:22:33.65\00:22:35.88
So I took our vehicle
and I went to their home.
00:22:35.88\00:22:40.89
Almost, it took me to two hours,
00:22:41.56\00:22:43.73
because evening traffic jam.
00:22:43.73\00:22:45.76
Two hours and I reached almost
nine o'clock in the night.
00:22:45.76\00:22:50.00
And I told them,
because I was kind of fear
00:22:50.00\00:22:54.37
what the husband
says or what they say.
00:22:54.37\00:22:57.11
When I went, the
husband is waiting,
00:22:57.11\00:22:58.67
come, come,
welcome, pastor, welcome.
00:22:58.67\00:23:01.74
I was shocked, what is going on?
00:23:01.74\00:23:04.05
Then when I went inside,
they were all happy, then...
00:23:04.05\00:23:09.05
- Is this one of the
Mary's or both Mary's?
00:23:09.25\00:23:10.95
- [Johnson] One Mary.
00:23:10.95\00:23:11.79
- Just one of the Mary.
00:23:11.79\00:23:12.62
- Other Mary's another place.
00:23:12.62\00:23:14.06
- It's actually
their surname, Mary?
00:23:14.06\00:23:15.66
- Yes.
00:23:15.66\00:23:16.49
- What's her first name?
00:23:16.49\00:23:17.33
- It's Glory.
00:23:17.33\00:23:18.16
- Gloria or Glory Mary.
00:23:18.16\00:23:19.96
- And so I went
to, then I told them,
00:23:19.96\00:23:23.67
tomorrow you
take one month rest.
00:23:23.67\00:23:26.67
- Take a rest
after this whole drama.
00:23:26.67\00:23:28.57
- They said, no.
00:23:28.57\00:23:29.97
- They're ready to go again.
00:23:29.97\00:23:31.07
- Ready to go.
00:23:31.07\00:23:32.21
And she said, "Tomorrow
I'm going to the same house."
00:23:32.21\00:23:35.44
Then I said, please--
00:23:36.44\00:23:37.98
- Be careful.
00:23:37.98\00:23:39.18
- I don't want this
one, well, pray that--
00:23:39.18\00:23:42.12
- But it's through
these kind of contacts
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.09
that they end up making friends.
00:23:44.09\00:23:45.99
And then they start in
somebody's home in that area,
00:23:45.99\00:23:48.52
they're working,
start having Bible studies,
00:23:48.52\00:23:50.19
maybe one on one to begin with.
00:23:50.19\00:23:52.16
And then it grows
into a group Bible study.
00:23:52.16\00:23:54.46
Then invite a
pastor to come and visit.
00:23:54.46\00:23:56.67
Then eventually build
a simple rooftop church.
00:23:56.67\00:24:00.07
- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:24:00.07\00:24:00.90
- And then eventually build,
00:24:00.90\00:24:02.40
buy a piece of
property and build a church.
00:24:02.40\00:24:03.91
- [Johnson] Yeah.
00:24:03.91\00:24:04.71
- Any rough idea
how many churches
00:24:04.71\00:24:06.54
Laymen Ministries
has been involved with
00:24:06.54\00:24:08.11
in the last 25 years?
00:24:08.11\00:24:09.91
- It is in over 60, six zero.
00:24:09.91\00:24:13.31
- 60 churches.
00:24:18.55\00:24:19.45
- 60 churches is now existing,
00:24:19.45\00:24:22.59
but we have
entered over 200 places.
00:24:22.59\00:24:25.83
- Wow.
00:24:25.83\00:24:26.66
- You got idea?
00:24:26.66\00:24:27.83
Because there are places we
were not able to build a church.
00:24:27.83\00:24:31.93
We were not able to put a shed.
00:24:33.54\00:24:36.74
We were not able to because
of sometime the financial need,
00:24:36.74\00:24:41.41
sometime the
place or various reason.
00:24:41.41\00:24:44.51
But the 60
churches are still existing,
00:24:44.51\00:24:49.52
very strong churches.
00:24:50.59\00:24:52.85
But we have
entered hundreds of places.
00:24:52.85\00:24:55.46
- Well, before
our time runs out,
00:24:55.46\00:24:56.86
let's talk a little bit about,
00:24:56.86\00:24:58.93
we're talking about
doing a work in North India,
00:24:58.93\00:25:01.33
and you and I
have talked about this
00:25:01.33\00:25:02.80
one interview we had probably
about four or five years ago,
00:25:02.80\00:25:05.57
but then COVID happened and
a lot of complications came up,
00:25:05.57\00:25:09.57
but we're discussing
between ourselves right now
00:25:09.57\00:25:13.81
of entering into a work
in a really primitive place
00:25:13.81\00:25:17.05
in North India, right?
00:25:17.05\00:25:18.58
- [Johnson] Yes.
00:25:18.58\00:25:19.48
- What is the plans
for something like that?
00:25:19.48\00:25:20.38
What would you do?
00:25:20.38\00:25:21.68
- So we thought, why
can't we do in North India?
00:25:21.68\00:25:25.19
Because we were a
good presence in Nepal
00:25:25.19\00:25:28.46
and also South India.
00:25:28.46\00:25:30.56
And there were many people,
00:25:30.56\00:25:32.16
oh, why Laymen Ministry
always in Nepal or South India?
00:25:32.16\00:25:37.13
- Not other places.
00:25:37.30\00:25:38.23
- Not other places.
00:25:38.23\00:25:39.67
Come on, sir, this is a time
00:25:39.67\00:25:40.90
that you have to
help others also.
00:25:40.90\00:25:43.44
So they were thinking
that since I am from Chennai,
00:25:43.44\00:25:46.94
I am struck up with Chennai,
00:25:46.94\00:25:50.05
I'm not leaving
you in North India.
00:25:50.05\00:25:52.55
They are thinking that I
am taking you in Chennai.
00:25:52.55\00:25:56.15
So, the point is in North India,
00:25:56.15\00:25:59.42
there are places
the door is open now,
00:25:59.42\00:26:02.49
because before the door
close, there are place in Bihar,
00:26:02.49\00:26:07.56
and also in Delhi.
00:26:08.00\00:26:10.67
Delhi, there is a possibility,
the capital of India,
00:26:10.67\00:26:14.74
there is a possibility
to start a time church
00:26:14.74\00:26:18.11
because we don't have
a time church in there.
00:26:18.11\00:26:19.51
So there is a possibility.
00:26:19.51\00:26:21.68
So we can working in Leh Ladakh.
00:26:21.68\00:26:25.28
Leh ladakh is a border of China.
00:26:25.28\00:26:28.28
On one side border of Nepal,
on one side border of Pakistan.
00:26:28.28\00:26:33.29
And there is a small region.
00:26:33.76\00:26:36.06
- Small area there.
00:26:36.06\00:26:37.03
- [Johnson] Yeah, Leh Ladakh.
00:26:37.03\00:26:38.93
- So what's the process in
trying to go into a new area
00:26:38.93\00:26:41.73
like that and try
to unchurch people
00:26:41.73\00:26:44.30
to try to share
with them about Christ
00:26:44.30\00:26:46.27
and the signs of the times
00:26:46.27\00:26:47.87
that we're living in
today and things like that?
00:26:47.87\00:26:50.21
- I think it is
better right now,
00:26:50.21\00:26:52.04
maybe in the beginning
we can work among the...
00:26:52.04\00:26:55.91
- Like, Friendship Ministry.
00:26:55.91\00:26:56.88
- Friendship Ministry,
00:26:56.88\00:26:57.71
and maybe we can start with
some five, 10 Bible workers.
00:26:58.61\00:27:02.88
Maybe we can start with a six.
00:27:02.88\00:27:04.32
So two, two, like,
or seven, one supervisor
00:27:04.32\00:27:07.89
and six Bible workers.
00:27:07.89\00:27:09.32
And we can select one place.
00:27:09.32\00:27:12.19
- Well, our time is up
and it goes by really quick
00:27:12.19\00:27:15.36
when we start talking
00:27:15.36\00:27:16.26
about doing this
mission work overseas,
00:27:16.26\00:27:18.47
but I just want to
encourage our viewers
00:27:18.47\00:27:20.67
to go to our website @lmn.org,
00:27:20.67\00:27:24.37
and you could
subscribe to our magazines.
00:27:24.37\00:27:26.57
We have these Laymen Ministries
magazines that go out.
00:27:26.57\00:27:29.58
These are
extremely popular magazines.
00:27:29.58\00:27:31.48
Like the last
issue we had come out
00:27:31.48\00:27:33.65
is called "Follow the Science."
00:27:33.65\00:27:35.18
Very interesting
article on science
00:27:35.18\00:27:38.55
and religion and geology.
00:27:38.55\00:27:40.62
And then we have one
here called "The New Normal."
00:27:40.62\00:27:43.46
And then just a while back,
00:27:43.46\00:27:45.06
we released this one called
00:27:45.06\00:27:46.03
"Lost Days, the
Rapture and the Jesuits."
00:27:46.03\00:27:49.16
All the feature
articles in these magazines
00:27:49.16\00:27:51.27
can be found
online at our website too,
00:27:51.27\00:27:53.64
or you can call our office
00:27:53.64\00:27:54.87
and have your name put on the
mailing list at 1800-245-1844
00:27:54.87\00:27:57.94
or email us at office@lmn.org,
00:28:00.41\00:28:05.05
or simply go to our website
00:28:05.05\00:28:06.51
and request to be put
on the mailing list there.
00:28:06.51\00:28:09.12
And we'll get you a
magazine out right away.
00:28:09.12\00:28:12.29
Anyhow, all our time is up
00:28:12.29\00:28:14.72
and we'll come back to the
studio later and do part two.
00:28:14.72\00:28:17.66
Thank you, thank
you for watching.
00:28:18.76\00:28:20.80
(ethereal music)
00:28:20.80\00:28:23.53