Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI210510B
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00:07 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:09 Before the break with Liberty editor, Bettina Krause, 00:13 we were talking about some of the issues facing her 00:16 and all of us in defending 00:19 and watching out for religious liberty. 00:21 Bettina, changing the topic slightly but still to future 00:27 troubles or troubles that are starting now 00:29 but will perhaps get worse. 00:30 I noticed that in Texas they've just passed 00:35 legislation that in essence criminalizes abortions. 00:40 But what I find really horrific legally 00:43 is that it empowers all Texas citizens to bring legal suit 00:49 against those that perform abortions. 00:51 And I think, I've got to be careful, 00:53 but I think even maybe against the women that have 00:56 the procedures. 00:58 But, you know, many cases have been dismissed in recent years 01:01 because they had no standing. 01:03 You know, legal term that is not your issue. 01:07 You have no right to bring the suit even 01:08 if there was a wrong there. 01:10 How does this relate to the issue of standing? 01:12 It seems to me that they're crossing a legal boundary 01:16 with this law. 01:18 Well, you know, the issue with the law is that it 01:21 is specifically designed to avoid, to sidestep some 01:26 of the problems that similar laws have run into in the past. 01:29 And that is that the government is, 01:32 government officials are 01:33 prevented from 01:38 doing those actions to prevent abortion or to bring 01:41 actions against those who have helped 01:43 someone procure an abortion. 01:46 So it's by shifting the onus to private citizens. 01:52 It's a way of sidestepping 01:55 the idea that the government 01:57 is constitutionally prevented from taking that action. 02:01 So, you know, you can argue about that law from many 02:07 different angles, but let me tell you what concerns me. 02:11 And that is that it creates 02:14 a pattern for how a government could conceivably sidestep 02:19 a constitutional restraint. 02:23 So if let's just say hypothetically, 02:27 a state government wanted to outlaw, 02:31 you know, something that was constitutionally protected, 02:33 some aspect of speech, for instance. 02:35 Well, it's prevented from impeding a citizen's speech. 02:40 But if they shift the burden to private 02:44 citizens to prevent the speech, then technically, 02:48 they haven't overstepped their constitutional bounds. 02:51 So what concerns me about that approach 02:54 is that it is an attempt to sidestep 02:58 those constitutional protections. 03:02 Yes, I agree with you. 03:04 But still, from a legal perspective, 03:07 tell me how in other legal issues 03:12 you can't bring a suit against someone 03:14 if you have no direct involvement in it. 03:17 No, it does seem completely counterintuitive. 03:20 And, Lincoln... 03:21 It's counterintuitive, but where it worries me, 03:23 to me, this is exactly the same 03:26 dynamic that the communist systems encouraged 03:29 where there were neighborhood watch 03:32 groups that were monitoring your life 03:34 all the time and would report to the party. 03:37 We've toyed with the idea a little bit after 9/11 03:41 with these warnings on the freeways. 03:43 Report suspicious activity. 03:46 When you have the whole populace 03:48 informing on each other, no liberties 03:51 last very long with that. 03:52 That creates an atmosphere of suspicion, and of fear, 03:57 and inhibition that will quickly damp down 04:01 normal active civil behavior. 04:04 Well, you saw that the Supreme Court allowed 04:06 the law to take effect in Texas. 04:08 That's troubling to me. Right. 04:11 But, I mean, basically, Lincoln, watch this space. 04:14 This is going to be hotly contested from many 04:18 different angles. 04:19 We have not even seen close to the end of this story. 04:23 No, and that's why I bring it up. 04:25 I think this is huge. 04:27 And it's odd, I thought it was very odd that the Supreme Court 04:30 would take that line when, apart from what we've already 04:33 discussed, this is a state directly challenging 04:36 a federal mandate. 04:39 Right. It's federally legal and affirmed. 04:43 It's established law for the right of abortion. 04:46 I'm not pro-abortion in the slightest. 04:48 I'm, in fact, emotionally, I'm against it. 04:52 But I see the civil liberty issue at play here. 04:57 And to me, this is the beginning 04:59 of some really big legal developments. 05:04 On the face of it, there's the state right, 05:06 in fact, the only other parallel that I see that was 05:08 slightly like this was, I think, 05:10 it was Oregon that passed their pro marijuana laws 05:14 when the federal law was still anti. 05:15 And so you had, you know, dueling authorities. 05:20 Right. 05:22 And I'm all for state's rights. 05:23 And I personally believe 05:25 the US system was broken by the Civil War 05:27 because the state's rights were, 05:29 and the sovereign state of each state 05:35 was something that was ruined by the defense 05:39 of the union. 05:40 But still, where we are now, 05:43 it's not really profitable to have a rebellion 05:45 within the state against 05:47 uniform laws by the federal government. 05:50 It will certainly be interesting to see 05:52 where this goes for sure. 05:54 And I think... 05:55 What other challenges do you see 05:57 looking ahead from your new perch? 06:02 Well, one of them definitely is an issue 06:03 of how religious freedom is perceived 06:07 within the US system. 06:10 I mean, you know, we talked in another program about 06:13 how it seems that religious freedom 06:15 is winning at the Supreme Court level. 06:17 I would argue that at the cultural level, 06:19 religious freedom is losing. 06:21 Yes. You and I agree. Absolutely. 06:23 And I've said every chance that I have 06:25 that I haven't to this late point particularly seen 06:28 a problem with the high courts at least. 06:31 Right. 06:33 With all of the talk about, you know, buying justices 06:35 and so on, that will happen eventually with that much talk. 06:38 But the problem is not on the higher level. 06:40 And, generally, the federal laws are not particularly 06:44 a problem. But it's around the edges and the societal 06:47 shifts that I see the danger. 06:48 Absolutely. 06:50 Because what happens at the society level 06:52 will eventually impact what happens to the legal 06:54 system sooner or later. 06:56 So we're back to what I said in a previous program. 06:58 The social contract, I think, is key. 07:03 No government can exist without the consent of the governed. 07:07 It sort of sounds like the language of the formation 07:08 of America, but it's really a bigger principle. 07:11 Right. 07:13 At the beginning of the formation of America, 07:16 religious freedom was acknowledged by all 07:19 as a fundamental right that should be honored 07:22 and protected. 07:24 It had a certain stature that was there. 07:27 And what is alarming to me now 07:30 is the rhetoric that now surrounds religious freedom. 07:34 It's not seen as sort of this transcendent human right. 07:37 It is seen as a tool for oppressing 07:41 other people in society. 07:43 Now you can argue back 07:45 and forth as to who is at fault for, 07:48 you know, the declining reputation 07:50 of religious freedom. 07:52 But I think the point remains that for a magazine such 07:55 as Liberty and for a program such as this, 07:58 one of the key tasks is to engage with that. 08:03 Right. 08:04 And you're going to have to defend the separation 08:06 of church and state as never before. 08:08 Which is you well know is pretty much 08:10 a lost cause for most religionists 08:12 and many others in the community. 08:15 Right, exactly. 08:19 Just before I left the editorship, 08:22 I essentially lost patience with some 08:25 of our own Seventh-day Adventists who seemed to have 08:27 lost their bearings and were pushing for among 08:30 other things, a Christian republic 08:33 and a factional interest in religious liberty on, 08:38 you know, via one particular party or even 08:40 a particular person. 08:42 And in my view, they, as the Bible says, 08:44 they were believing a lie. 08:47 But I think that's a challenge 08:48 you're going to have to face too. 08:52 That people that have studied prophecy 08:53 and know their own church's history are not always 08:57 as clear on this topic as they once seemed to be. 09:02 Well, Ellen White said that we had to hold high 09:04 the banner of truth and religious liberty. 09:06 And it's not just to those people 09:09 who are not Seventh-day Adventist, 09:10 it's also to our own people. 09:12 We have a responsibility to continue the dialogue, 09:15 to continue the back and forth, to understand 09:17 where people are 09:19 and to draw them into a conversation 09:24 about these issues. 09:25 And that is why I believe Liberty has an absolutely 09:30 crucial role to play going forward. 09:33 Absolutely. 09:34 And it's not just a crucial role, which it is, but I mean, 09:38 I see it as more than that. 09:39 It's central to what we are called to proclaim. 09:42 Because religious freedom is really a description 09:46 about how God has dealt with us in granting us 09:49 the autonomy to even make mistakes. 09:52 And so if we are proclaiming the soon return of Christ, 09:55 we can't do it without true religious liberty. 09:59 And as I've told people, it's basically the gospel. 10:03 Yes, it is. 10:04 You mentioned Ellen White, 10:05 the co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist 10:08 Church and a woman that many believed was given 10:11 divine illumination. 10:12 But she once said that the precursor to Liberty 10:16 Magazine was the message for this day. 10:21 It was the three angels' messages. 10:23 It was the gospel. 10:24 So God bless you, Bettina, 10:27 as you begin this great challenge. 10:30 And I'm sure you'll do great things. 10:32 And I'm sure you'll be back on this program again. 10:35 Thank you. 10:41 Some years ago in Liberty Magazine, 10:43 we ran an article on The Handmaid's Tale. 10:47 A rather forbidding futuristic movie that was popular 10:51 at the time. 10:52 There's no question that under the guise of religion, 10:55 some very oddball things are happening 10:57 already in society with even stranger things predicted. 11:02 I feel confident though, with another handmaid. 11:06 As in the vein of Mary where she said that she was 11:09 the handmaid of the Lord. 11:10 We have the first ever female editor of Liberty Magazine. 11:14 And the same charter and charge that was given to Adventist 11:18 pioneers and carried on initially by A.T. Jones, 11:21 I'm confident that as Liberty faces the future 11:25 and as viewers like you 11:26 keep following religious liberty in the future, 11:29 that if we keep the principles clear in our mind, 11:32 we will see through the deceptions 11:35 and carry that spirit of liberty 11:36 through to a grand conclusion. 11:40 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2021-10-28