Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break with
Liberty editor, Bettina Krause,
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we were talking about
some of the issues facing her
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and all of us in defending
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and watching out
for religious liberty.
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Bettina, changing the topic
slightly but still to future
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troubles or troubles
that are starting now
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but will perhaps get worse.
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I noticed that in
Texas they've just passed
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legislation that in
essence criminalizes abortions.
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But what I find
really horrific legally
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is that it empowers all Texas
citizens to bring legal suit
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against those
that perform abortions.
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And I think, I've
got to be careful,
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but I think even maybe
against the women that have
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the procedures.
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But, you know, many cases have
been dismissed in recent years
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because they had no standing.
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You know, legal term
that is not your issue.
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You have no right
to bring the suit even
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if there was a wrong there.
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How does this relate
to the issue of standing?
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It seems to me that they're
crossing a legal boundary
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with this law.
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Well, you know, the
issue with the law is that it
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is specifically designed
to avoid, to sidestep some
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of the problems that similar
laws have run into in the past.
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And that is that
the government is,
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government officials are
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prevented from
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doing those actions to
prevent abortion or to bring
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actions against
those who have helped
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someone procure an abortion.
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So it's by shifting the
onus to private citizens.
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It's a way of sidestepping
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the idea that the government
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is constitutionally prevented
from taking that action.
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So, you know, you can
argue about that law from many
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different angles, but let
me tell you what concerns me.
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And that is that it creates
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a pattern for how a government
could conceivably sidestep
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a constitutional restraint.
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So if let's just
say hypothetically,
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a state
government wanted to outlaw,
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you know, something that
was constitutionally protected,
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some aspect of
speech, for instance.
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Well, it's prevented from
impeding a citizen's speech.
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But if they shift
the burden to private
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citizens to prevent the
speech, then technically,
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they haven't overstepped
their constitutional bounds.
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So what concerns
me about that approach
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is that it is an
attempt to sidestep
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those
constitutional protections.
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Yes, I agree with you.
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But still, from a
legal perspective,
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tell me how in
other legal issues
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you can't bring a
suit against someone
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if you have no
direct involvement in it.
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No, it does seem
completely counterintuitive.
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And, Lincoln...
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It's counterintuitive,
but where it worries me,
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to me, this is exactly the same
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dynamic that the
communist systems encouraged
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where there were
neighborhood watch
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groups that were
monitoring your life
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all the time and
would report to the party.
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We've toyed with the
idea a little bit after 9/11
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with these
warnings on the freeways.
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Report suspicious activity.
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When you have the whole populace
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informing on each
other, no liberties
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last very long with that.
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That creates an atmosphere
of suspicion, and of fear,
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and inhibition that
will quickly damp down
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normal active civil behavior.
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Well, you saw that
the Supreme Court allowed
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the law to take effect in Texas.
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That's troubling to me. Right.
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But, I mean, basically,
Lincoln, watch this space.
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This is going to be
hotly contested from many
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different angles.
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We have not even seen
close to the end of this story.
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No, and that's
why I bring it up.
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I think this is huge.
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And it's odd, I thought it was
very odd that the Supreme Court
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would take that line when,
apart from what we've already
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discussed, this is a
state directly challenging
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a federal mandate.
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Right. It's
federally legal and affirmed.
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It's established law
for the right of abortion.
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I'm not
pro-abortion in the slightest.
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I'm, in fact,
emotionally, I'm against it.
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But I see the civil
liberty issue at play here.
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And to me, this is the beginning
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of some really big
legal developments.
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On the face of it,
there's the state right,
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in fact, the only other
parallel that I see that was
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slightly like this was, I think,
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it was Oregon that
passed their pro marijuana laws
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when the federal
law was still anti.
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And so you had, you
know, dueling authorities.
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Right.
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And I'm all for state's rights.
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And I personally believe
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the US system was
broken by the Civil War
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because the state's rights were,
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and the sovereign
state of each state
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was something that
was ruined by the defense
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of the union.
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But still, where we are now,
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it's not really
profitable to have a rebellion
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within the state against
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uniform laws by
the federal government.
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It will certainly
be interesting to see
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where this goes for sure.
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And I think...
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What other challenges do you see
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looking ahead
from your new perch?
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Well, one of them
definitely is an issue
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of how religious
freedom is perceived
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within the US system.
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I mean, you know, we
talked in another program about
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how it seems
that religious freedom
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is winning at the
Supreme Court level.
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I would argue that
at the cultural level,
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religious freedom is losing.
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Yes. You and I
agree. Absolutely.
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And I've said
every chance that I have
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that I haven't to this
late point particularly seen
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a problem with the
high courts at least.
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Right.
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With all of the talk
about, you know, buying justices
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and so on, that will happen
eventually with that much talk.
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But the problem is
not on the higher level.
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And, generally, the federal
laws are not particularly
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a problem. But it's around
the edges and the societal
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shifts that I see the danger.
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Absolutely.
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Because what
happens at the society level
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will eventually impact
what happens to the legal
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system sooner or later.
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So we're back to what I
said in a previous program.
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The social
contract, I think, is key.
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No government can exist without
the consent of the governed.
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It sort of sounds like
the language of the formation
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of America, but it's
really a bigger principle.
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Right.
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At the beginning of
the formation of America,
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religious freedom
was acknowledged by all
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as a fundamental
right that should be honored
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and protected.
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It had a certain
stature that was there.
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And what is alarming to me now
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is the rhetoric that now
surrounds religious freedom.
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It's not seen as sort of
this transcendent human right.
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It is seen as a
tool for oppressing
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other people in society.
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Now you can argue back
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and forth as to
who is at fault for,
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you know, the
declining reputation
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of religious freedom.
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But I think the point
remains that for a magazine such
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as Liberty and for a
program such as this,
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one of the key tasks
is to engage with that.
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Right.
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And you're going to
have to defend the separation
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of church and
state as never before.
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Which is you well
know is pretty much
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a lost cause for
most religionists
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and many others
in the community.
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Right, exactly.
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Just before I
left the editorship,
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I essentially
lost patience with some
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of our own Seventh-day
Adventists who seemed to have
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lost their bearings
and were pushing for among
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other things, a
Christian republic
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and a factional interest
in religious liberty on,
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you know, via one
particular party or even
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a particular person.
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And in my view,
they, as the Bible says,
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they were believing a lie.
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But I think that's a challenge
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you're going to
have to face too.
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That people that
have studied prophecy
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and know their own
church's history are not always
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as clear on this topic
as they once seemed to be.
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Well, Ellen White said
that we had to hold high
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the banner of truth
and religious liberty.
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And it's not
just to those people
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who are not
Seventh-day Adventist,
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it's also to our own people.
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We have a responsibility
to continue the dialogue,
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to continue the back
and forth, to understand
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where people are
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and to draw them
into a conversation
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about these issues.
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And that is why I believe
Liberty has an absolutely
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crucial role to
play going forward.
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Absolutely.
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And it's not just a crucial
role, which it is, but I mean,
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I see it as more than that.
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It's central to what
we are called to proclaim.
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Because religious
freedom is really a description
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about how God has
dealt with us in granting us
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the autonomy to
even make mistakes.
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And so if we are proclaiming
the soon return of Christ,
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we can't do it without
true religious liberty.
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And as I've told people,
it's basically the gospel.
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Yes, it is.
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You mentioned Ellen White,
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the co-founder of
the Seventh-day Adventist
00:10:05.97\00:10:08.20
Church and a woman
that many believed was given
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divine illumination.
00:10:11.04\00:10:12.57
But she once said that
the precursor to Liberty
00:10:12.61\00:10:16.85
Magazine was the
message for this day.
00:10:16.88\00:10:20.98
It was the three
angels' messages.
00:10:21.02\00:10:22.98
It was the gospel.
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So God bless you, Bettina,
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as you begin
this great challenge.
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And I'm sure
you'll do great things.
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And I'm sure you'll be
back on this program again.
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Thank you.
00:10:35.96\00:10:37.30
Some years ago
in Liberty Magazine,
00:10:41.17\00:10:42.97
we ran an article
on The Handmaid's Tale.
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A rather forbidding futuristic
movie that was popular
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at the time.
00:10:51.05\00:10:52.38
There's no question that
under the guise of religion,
00:10:52.41\00:10:55.18
some very oddball
things are happening
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already in society with
even stranger things predicted.
00:10:57.82\00:11:02.36
I feel confident
though, with another handmaid.
00:11:02.39\00:11:06.49
As in the vein of Mary
where she said that she was
00:11:06.53\00:11:09.13
the handmaid of the Lord.
00:11:09.16\00:11:10.60
We have the first ever female
editor of Liberty Magazine.
00:11:10.63\00:11:14.44
And the same charter and charge
that was given to Adventist
00:11:14.47\00:11:17.97
pioneers and carried on
initially by A.T. Jones,
00:11:18.01\00:11:21.68
I'm confident that as
Liberty faces the future
00:11:21.71\00:11:25.25
and as viewers like you
00:11:25.28\00:11:26.65
keep following
religious liberty in the future,
00:11:26.68\00:11:29.22
that if we keep the
principles clear in our mind,
00:11:29.25\00:11:32.49
we will see
through the deceptions
00:11:32.52\00:11:35.02
and carry that spirit of liberty
00:11:35.06\00:11:36.86
through to a grand conclusion.
00:11:36.89\00:11:40.10
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:40.13\00:11:43.10