Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI210502B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:09 Before the break with guest, Ed Cooke, 00:12 we were far away in the Middle East, 00:14 talking about what's going on there 00:17 and starting with the US affirmation, 00:20 as you pointed out of an earlier action 00:22 before President Trump, 00:23 but he formalized the recognition 00:27 or the movement of the US Embassy 00:29 to Jerusalem 00:30 as their capital of wisdom. 00:31 You know, back in 1995, there was the US... 00:35 The regional election, but did it in 2017. 00:38 Yeah. 00:39 So the US Congress passed the US Embassy and Israel Act. 00:43 They voted and passed it back in 1995. 00:45 And each president 00:47 after that was reluctant to actually enact it. 00:49 Because they thought it was a big hot potato. 00:52 And I still think it is, but amazingly, 00:54 as we were discussing 00:55 it didn't immediately inflame the area, 00:58 and maybe, you know, 01:01 a burning, itching sore can't become more sore. 01:05 But that's also why, like you pointed out 01:07 when Trump did go ahead and enacted that act. 01:10 He put into effect that act from 1995 in 2017, 01:14 but when he did that, 01:16 many of his supporters that viewed him as the, 01:18 maybe the savior for their movement... 01:21 And they went into overdrive. 01:22 Yeah, because they said, 01:24 "Oh, he's the Cyrus that would, 01:25 the Bible predicted in Isaiah 45, 01:27 to bring about liberation, 01:28 and to help us as conservative Christians 01:31 move our agenda forward." 01:33 And if there was any dispute about what this meant, 01:36 and what was driving it. 01:38 Was settled for me, I watched the ceremony. 01:41 And it was a lot of crowing by American evangelicals, 01:45 I think that spoiled it 01:46 because if they had laid low at that point, 01:48 it could have been at least passed off 01:50 as just a hardheaded political act. 01:52 But no, they were... 01:55 They were talking apocalyptic language 01:57 at that time. 01:58 And like many things in this world, 02:01 it links with other things. 02:02 And I think the US actions against Iran 02:06 are colored by evangelical expectation 02:10 of what should happen in Israel. 02:12 And interestingly enough, 02:15 Cyrus is connected with Iran. 02:19 But we forget that. Yeah. 02:20 And I'm old enough to remember 02:22 many headlines in US newspapers 02:24 about how wonderful Iran was, 02:26 they were our top allies, they were a friend of the world 02:29 without the shadow of the teeth. 02:31 So I become a little cynical in my old age, 02:33 unless you keep to a fixed point, 02:36 which is easy for us Christians reading the Bible. 02:39 It's unchangeable, God's Word doesn't change. 02:42 But lest you remember that, 02:43 you could be swept along 02:45 where night is now day or yes, you know it changes. 02:48 We got the winds blow every direction. 02:51 Or to make it more contemporary 02:52 for those that might have a literary remembrance, 02:54 you know, the book 1984, 02:59 there were three powers in the world, 03:00 Oceania is one I remember, 03:02 three powers, neither, 03:04 no two could beat the other one. 03:05 And so the rivalries were shifting all the time. 03:08 And the banner without any explanation would shift. 03:10 Now these are the enemy, they're the enemy. 03:13 And we need to be careful, we're not sort of seesawed 03:16 between those thinking, those thinkings. 03:19 And to me, and I may, trying to make a religious point here. 03:23 Iran has wonderful memories, 03:25 I've visited as a young person 03:26 when back when the Shah was there. 03:28 And I had no brief for the Shah, 03:30 and neither then nor now. 03:32 But we traveled out into the countryside of Iran. 03:36 And my father had taken us there, 03:39 and seemed like about two hours or so 03:42 from the capital of Tehran, 03:43 we met with quite a large group 03:45 of Seventh-day Adventist Christians 03:47 at a camp meeting get together. 03:49 And you wouldn't know such things happen now. 03:53 I mean, it's... 03:55 Because nowadays, you know, with the conflict going on 03:56 in those areas, right, like in Syria, 03:59 and then now between Palestine and Israel, 04:01 and also, you know, with Iran 04:03 and issues that have taken place, 04:05 you know, with Iraq and US intervention there. 04:08 You've got a lot of that play area 04:10 that is totally devastated now, 04:11 because of the shelling the bombs, warfare, 04:14 and many Christians from those areas 04:16 have now fled out of there. 04:18 Oh, in Iraq. Absolutely. 04:20 But I don't believe that's the case in Iran. 04:22 They're just laying low. 04:24 It's an Islamic Republic, but I know from visiting there, 04:28 Iran is not as hardcore 04:30 as much of what we think of as the Middle East. 04:33 They're not even Arabs. 04:35 They are Muslim. 04:36 But what struck me 04:38 and it's the enduring memory of Tehran, 04:40 because out in the country, different flavors, 04:42 village life and so on. 04:44 But I can tell you out in the country, 04:45 the US, it's not Hollywood. 04:48 You go to your little farming town 04:50 or a backwoods town, 04:52 it's Middle America, it's stepping back in time, 04:55 but it's not what you see on television, 04:58 but the enduring scenes for me in Iran, in Tehran, 05:05 it was like Paris, 05:07 like the wide boulevards with the cafes on the sidewalk, 05:13 wonderful architecture, nice people. 05:17 And we need to remember that, I think all of us, 05:20 whether it was thinking religious liberty, 05:22 or just the brotherhood of mankind, 05:24 there are good people all over the world 05:27 and there are bad people all over the world, 05:29 and the average person just wants to live his life. 05:33 And the average person is seeking 05:37 some spiritual security in ways the best they can. 05:40 And, of course, as Christians, you and I can reach out, 05:42 we have the permit, 05:44 but we shouldn't just wipe them off. 05:45 Yep. 05:47 And I, you know, I remember very clearly 05:49 during the Balkans War, 05:51 when we were bombing Belgrade, 05:55 seemed a just thing to do 05:56 because the Yugoslavia or the Serbs were ethnic 06:03 cleansing certain Muslims, right? 06:05 But at that same time, 06:07 the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Belgrade 06:09 was going through great traumas, 06:11 because their young people 06:13 were being conscripted into the army, 06:15 and were being forced on to the front lines. 06:17 So, you know, we were thinking this is great, 06:19 we're bombing them, 06:21 but their fellow Christians 06:22 who did not believe in the craziness 06:24 that was going on that were in harm's way there. 06:26 Yep. 06:28 So let's pivot a bit. 06:30 Sure. 06:31 Whether this is pivotal as, 06:33 as some of the political pivots, 06:34 but let's talk more American politics, 06:38 the Supreme Court. 06:41 You've written a number of articles already 06:43 recently for liberty on this. 06:47 What do you think 06:48 is the state of the court lately 06:50 in the light of the recent election 06:52 and a few actions 06:53 that have come down in recent months? 06:56 Well, I know one thing 06:57 that we can say kind of at the surface level, right? 07:00 Is just dealing with the makeup of the court, 07:03 in the sense that if you look at the court, 07:06 the nine member court back in the 1950s, 1960s, 07:10 it seemed to be, in fact, 07:12 I should say it was more reflective of the dynamic 07:15 and the demographics of America i.e. 07:18 you had some that were Protestant, 07:19 you had some Jews, 07:21 and you had maybe by the time of the 70s, 07:24 a Catholic or and then more Catholics. 07:26 And nowadays, you've got predominantly 07:29 Catholic members on the court. 07:30 Well, for the last few decades. 07:32 But that's shifted slightly in the last few appointments, 07:34 doesn't it? 07:36 I... From what I'm looking at it, 07:38 I actually feel that in, 07:41 maybe in the last five years, 07:43 there might have been a slight variation. 07:47 But still more Catholics than any other. 07:49 Yes. Absolutely. 07:50 However... 07:52 Which is not a constitutional problem. 07:53 The Constitution says 07:54 no religious test for public office. 07:56 Correct. 07:57 But it's the demographic imbalance. 07:58 Yes. 08:00 In other words, it doesn't represent 08:01 all of the people of America by demographic figures. 08:03 However, I think that 08:05 just looking at that religious factor alone 08:07 is not enough to say, 08:09 Okay, you've got majority that are Catholic all one mind, 08:12 because they're at odds with each other 08:13 on different decisions. 08:15 There's some that are more liberal minded, 08:16 others that are more conservative. 08:19 So looking at their judicial, their jurisprudence, 08:22 there has been a trend from roughly 2000 onward, 08:26 that is more leaning in the direction 08:27 as one would say, one church scholar 08:30 has recognized the Roberts Court, 08:33 which basically is the direction of the court 08:35 nowadays, that is more leaning 08:37 in the direction of supporting 08:39 your conservative Christian group. 08:40 Yeah. 08:42 And the way I put it 08:43 is the supporting religious entitlement. 08:44 It's there in favor of religion, 08:46 but it tends to be a narrow interest. 08:49 And shorter term, we're running out of time 08:52 on this program, 08:53 but I'm encouraged that during the election, 08:56 which is not a religious issue, but they kept their heads, 08:59 as Kipling says 09:01 when all around are losing theirs. 09:03 And so they kept the US on a constitutional track. 09:06 They could have easily aided and abetted, 09:08 and incipient either rebellion or collapse of the system. 09:13 And then in the COVID era, 09:15 I think they belatedly did a good service 09:19 in upholding the right of churches to meet 09:22 when they were not passing muster in many states 09:24 as essential services and were being harassed. 09:27 In California that was outright harassment 09:29 by the governor. 09:31 So I encourage there 09:33 but as you've written 09:34 this been an up and down over the years, 09:36 not all court, 09:37 Supreme Court actions have been positive 09:39 and the infamous Smith 09:40 one with a... 09:44 Restricted piety 09:48 as a religious activity, 09:49 which doesn't bother most people, 09:51 but it said that that religion could, 09:54 religious actions could be restricted 09:56 as long as they were generally applicable rules. 09:58 Well, that sort of... 10:00 All that means is 10:01 if the majority think otherwise, 10:03 you lose up. 10:04 Correct. 10:06 So in the little time left and any other comments 10:08 on where the Supreme Court is going, 10:09 because many people hang on their actions? 10:12 Well, I think that 10:15 the looking at the movement of the religious right 10:17 back to the 70s onward, 10:19 their, part of their stated agenda 10:21 is being able to put justices on the Supreme Court 10:25 that would help to overturn not only Roe v. Wade, 10:28 but also reestablish 10:29 what they believe is Christianity 10:32 established by law. 10:33 And thanks for bringing that up. 10:35 That bothers me because it's premised 10:37 on a corrupt judiciary, isn't it? 10:39 That you can stack it and therefore, 10:41 their bias view will predominate 10:43 and thankfully, 10:44 mostly to this point, 10:46 even someone from a faction when they're on the court, 10:49 they then become quite responsible, 10:51 and study the law rather than... 10:54 The group that put them in office. 10:56 Yes. 10:57 I mean, it's not inflexible, but this generally speaking, 11:00 I think it's tended to revert to common sense legal decisions 11:03 rather than factional bias 11:05 which they are aiming for by stacking the deck. 11:08 True. 11:09 So, you know, again, 11:11 you've written a number of articles on this, 11:13 any prognostications for the immediate future? 11:16 More decking or where do we go? 11:19 I think that it's going to be any political party 11:22 that gets into office 11:23 is certainly going to have an influence 11:25 on the direction of the court 11:26 and who gets nominated there. 11:28 I think that the most important thing, 11:30 though, for us as Christians to do 11:31 is look at the Supreme Judge Jesus, 11:34 and live our lives in such a way 11:35 that we can answer Him 11:37 during the judgment 11:38 and leave political situations here in God's hands to guide. 11:45 I remember hearing about a famous, 11:49 precious stone 11:51 that came from the Middle East, 11:52 and it was called the Tears of the Prophet. 11:55 I'm presuming that was Muhammad. 11:57 But what stuck in my mind of the tears of the Christ. 12:01 It's recorded in the Bible that looking over Jerusalem, 12:04 Jesus wept on seeing the city 12:08 because it had persecuted the prophets. 12:10 And as He said, "Not one stone was to be left upon another." 12:14 That's worth remembering 12:15 when we look at modern day Jerusalem 12:17 and, of course, that state of Israel. 12:22 The punishment has already come upon it. 12:24 Now we need to pray for healing, 12:27 because the Prince, the Righteous Judge, 12:30 not an earthly judge, 12:31 the Prince is soon to return 12:34 and His reward will be with Him. 12:36 Along the way, we're seeing embassies come and go, 12:39 armies come and go, 12:40 but Christ and His eternal truth remains. 12:45 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2021-08-05