Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest, Ed Cooke,
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we were far away
in the Middle East,
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talking about
what's going on there
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and starting with
the US affirmation,
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as you pointed out
of an earlier action
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before President Trump,
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but he
formalized the recognition
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or the movement
of the US Embassy
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to Jerusalem
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as their capital of wisdom.
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You know, back in
1995, there was the US...
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The regional
election, but did it in 2017.
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Yeah.
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So the US Congress passed
the US Embassy and Israel Act.
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They voted and
passed it back in 1995.
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And each president
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after that was
reluctant to actually enact it.
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Because they thought
it was a big hot potato.
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And I still think
it is, but amazingly,
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as we were discussing
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it didn't
immediately inflame the area,
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and maybe, you know,
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a burning, itching
sore can't become more sore.
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But that's also
why, like you pointed out
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when Trump did go
ahead and enacted that act.
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He put into effect
that act from 1995 in 2017,
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but when he did that,
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many of his supporters
that viewed him as the,
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maybe the savior
for their movement...
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And they went into overdrive.
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Yeah, because they said,
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"Oh, he's the Cyrus that would,
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the Bible
predicted in Isaiah 45,
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to bring about liberation,
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and to help us as
conservative Christians
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move our agenda forward."
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And if there was any
dispute about what this meant,
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and what was driving it.
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Was settled for me,
I watched the ceremony.
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And it was a lot of crowing
by American evangelicals,
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I think that spoiled it
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because if they had
laid low at that point,
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it could have been
at least passed off
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as just a
hardheaded political act.
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But no, they were...
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They were talking
apocalyptic language
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at that time.
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And like many
things in this world,
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it links with other things.
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And I think the US
actions against Iran
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are colored by
evangelical expectation
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of what should happen in Israel.
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And interestingly enough,
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Cyrus is connected with Iran.
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But we forget that. Yeah.
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And I'm old enough to remember
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many headlines in US newspapers
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about how wonderful Iran was,
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they were our top allies,
they were a friend of the world
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without the shadow of the teeth.
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So I become a little
cynical in my old age,
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unless you keep
to a fixed point,
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which is easy for us
Christians reading the Bible.
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It's unchangeable,
God's Word doesn't change.
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But lest you remember that,
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you could be swept along
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where night is now day
or yes, you know it changes.
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We got the winds
blow every direction.
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Or to make it more contemporary
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for those that might
have a literary remembrance,
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you know, the book 1984,
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there were three
powers in the world,
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Oceania is one I remember,
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three powers, neither,
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no two could beat the other one.
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And so the rivalries
were shifting all the time.
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And the banner without
any explanation would shift.
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Now these are the
enemy, they're the enemy.
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And we need to be careful,
we're not sort of seesawed
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between those
thinking, those thinkings.
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And to me, and I may, trying
to make a religious point here.
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Iran has wonderful memories,
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I've visited as a young person
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when back when
the Shah was there.
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And I had no brief for the Shah,
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and neither then nor now.
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But we traveled out
into the countryside of Iran.
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And my father
had taken us there,
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and seemed like
about two hours or so
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from the capital of Tehran,
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we met with quite a large group
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of Seventh-day
Adventist Christians
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at a camp meeting get together.
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And you wouldn't know
such things happen now.
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I mean, it's...
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Because nowadays, you
know, with the conflict going on
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in those areas,
right, like in Syria,
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and then now between
Palestine and Israel,
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and also, you know, with Iran
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and issues that
have taken place,
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you know, with Iraq
and US intervention there.
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You've got a lot
of that play area
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that is totally devastated now,
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because of the
shelling the bombs, warfare,
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and many
Christians from those areas
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have now fled out of there.
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Oh, in Iraq. Absolutely.
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But I don't believe
that's the case in Iran.
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They're just laying low.
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It's an Islamic Republic,
but I know from visiting there,
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Iran is not as hardcore
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as much of what we
think of as the Middle East.
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They're not even Arabs.
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They are Muslim.
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But what struck me
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and it's the
enduring memory of Tehran,
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because out in the
country, different flavors,
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village life and so on.
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But I can tell you
out in the country,
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the US, it's not Hollywood.
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You go to your
little farming town
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or a backwoods town,
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it's Middle America,
it's stepping back in time,
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but it's not what
you see on television,
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but the enduring scenes
for me in Iran, in Tehran,
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it was like Paris,
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like the wide boulevards
with the cafes on the sidewalk,
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wonderful
architecture, nice people.
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And we need to remember
that, I think all of us,
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whether it was
thinking religious liberty,
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or just the
brotherhood of mankind,
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there are good
people all over the world
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and there are bad
people all over the world,
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and the average person
just wants to live his life.
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And the average
person is seeking
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some spiritual security
in ways the best they can.
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And, of course, as Christians,
you and I can reach out,
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we have the permit,
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but we shouldn't
just wipe them off.
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Yep.
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And I, you know, I
remember very clearly
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during the Balkans War,
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when we were bombing Belgrade,
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seemed a just thing to do
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because the Yugoslavia
or the Serbs were ethnic
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cleansing
certain Muslims, right?
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But at that same time,
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the Seventh-day
Adventist Church in Belgrade
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was going through great traumas,
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because their young people
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were being
conscripted into the army,
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and were being forced
on to the front lines.
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So, you know, we were
thinking this is great,
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we're bombing them,
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but their fellow Christians
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who did not
believe in the craziness
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that was going on that
were in harm's way there.
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Yep.
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So let's pivot a bit.
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Sure.
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Whether this is pivotal as,
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as some of the political pivots,
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but let's talk
more American politics,
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the Supreme Court.
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You've written a
number of articles already
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recently for liberty on this.
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What do you think
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is the state of the court lately
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in the light of
the recent election
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and a few actions
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that have come
down in recent months?
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Well, I know one thing
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that we can say kind of
at the surface level, right?
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Is just dealing with
the makeup of the court,
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in the sense that if
you look at the court,
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the nine member court
back in the 1950s, 1960s,
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it seemed to be, in fact,
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I should say it was more
reflective of the dynamic
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and the
demographics of America i.e.
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you had some
that were Protestant,
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you had some Jews,
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and you had maybe
by the time of the 70s,
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a Catholic or and
then more Catholics.
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And nowadays,
you've got predominantly
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Catholic members on the court.
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Well, for the last few decades.
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But that's shifted slightly
in the last few appointments,
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doesn't it?
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I... From what
I'm looking at it,
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I actually feel that in,
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maybe in the last five years,
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there might have
been a slight variation.
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But still more
Catholics than any other.
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Yes. Absolutely.
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However...
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Which is not a
constitutional problem.
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The Constitution says
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no religious test
for public office.
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Correct.
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But it's the
demographic imbalance.
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Yes.
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In other words,
it doesn't represent
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all of the people of
America by demographic figures.
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However, I think that
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just looking at that
religious factor alone
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is not enough to say,
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Okay, you've got majority
that are Catholic all one mind,
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because they're at
odds with each other
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on different decisions.
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There's some that
are more liberal minded,
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others that are
more conservative.
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So looking at their
judicial, their jurisprudence,
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there has been a trend
from roughly 2000 onward,
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that is more
leaning in the direction
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as one would say,
one church scholar
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has recognized
the Roberts Court,
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which basically is
the direction of the court
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nowadays, that is more leaning
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in the direction of supporting
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your
conservative Christian group.
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Yeah.
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And the way I put it
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is the supporting
religious entitlement.
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It's there in favor of religion,
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but it tends to
be a narrow interest.
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And shorter term,
we're running out of time
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on this program,
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but I'm encouraged
that during the election,
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which is not a religious issue,
but they kept their heads,
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as Kipling says
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when all around
are losing theirs.
00:09:01.34\00:09:03.37
And so they kept the US
on a constitutional track.
00:09:03.41\00:09:06.51
They could have
easily aided and abetted,
00:09:06.54\00:09:08.41
and incipient either rebellion
or collapse of the system.
00:09:08.44\00:09:13.25
And then in the COVID era,
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I think they
belatedly did a good service
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in upholding the
right of churches to meet
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when they were not
passing muster in many states
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as essential services
and were being harassed.
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In California that
was outright harassment
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by the governor.
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So I encourage there
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but as you've written
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this been an up and
down over the years,
00:09:34.54\00:09:36.30
not all court,
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Supreme Court
actions have been positive
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and the infamous Smith
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one with a...
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Restricted piety
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as a religious activity,
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which doesn't
bother most people,
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but it said that
that religion could,
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religious actions
could be restricted
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as long as they were
generally applicable rules.
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Well, that sort of...
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All that means is
00:10:00.56\00:10:01.90
if the majority think otherwise,
00:10:01.93\00:10:03.26
you lose up.
00:10:03.30\00:10:04.63
Correct.
00:10:04.67\00:10:06.00
So in the little time
left and any other comments
00:10:06.03\00:10:08.50
on where the
Supreme Court is going,
00:10:08.54\00:10:09.87
because many people
hang on their actions?
00:10:09.90\00:10:12.27
Well, I think that
00:10:12.31\00:10:15.01
the looking at the
movement of the religious right
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back to the 70s onward,
00:10:17.25\00:10:19.18
their, part of
their stated agenda
00:10:19.21\00:10:21.12
is being able to put
justices on the Supreme Court
00:10:21.15\00:10:25.12
that would help to
overturn not only Roe v. Wade,
00:10:25.15\00:10:28.09
but also reestablish
00:10:28.12\00:10:29.69
what they
believe is Christianity
00:10:29.72\00:10:32.13
established by law.
00:10:32.16\00:10:33.76
And thanks for bringing that up.
00:10:33.80\00:10:35.13
That bothers me
because it's premised
00:10:35.16\00:10:37.03
on a corrupt
judiciary, isn't it?
00:10:37.07\00:10:39.77
That you can
stack it and therefore,
00:10:39.80\00:10:41.77
their bias view will predominate
00:10:41.80\00:10:43.51
and thankfully,
00:10:43.54\00:10:44.87
mostly to this point,
00:10:44.91\00:10:46.27
even someone from a faction
when they're on the court,
00:10:46.31\00:10:49.24
they then become
quite responsible,
00:10:49.28\00:10:51.71
and study the law rather than...
00:10:51.75\00:10:54.72
The group that
put them in office.
00:10:54.75\00:10:56.08
Yes.
00:10:56.12\00:10:57.45
I mean, it's not inflexible,
but this generally speaking,
00:10:57.49\00:11:00.09
I think it's tended to revert
to common sense legal decisions
00:11:00.12\00:11:03.96
rather than factional bias
00:11:03.99\00:11:05.96
which they are aiming
for by stacking the deck.
00:11:05.99\00:11:08.23
True.
00:11:08.26\00:11:09.60
So, you know, again,
00:11:09.63\00:11:11.23
you've written a
number of articles on this,
00:11:11.27\00:11:13.13
any prognostications
for the immediate future?
00:11:13.17\00:11:16.20
More decking or where do we go?
00:11:16.24\00:11:19.27
I think that it's going
to be any political party
00:11:19.31\00:11:22.18
that gets into office
00:11:22.21\00:11:23.95
is certainly going
to have an influence
00:11:23.98\00:11:25.31
on the direction of the court
00:11:25.35\00:11:26.68
and who gets nominated there.
00:11:26.72\00:11:28.38
I think that the
most important thing,
00:11:28.42\00:11:29.98
though, for us
as Christians to do
00:11:30.02\00:11:31.62
is look at the
Supreme Judge Jesus,
00:11:31.65\00:11:34.42
and live our lives in such a way
00:11:34.46\00:11:35.79
that we can answer Him
00:11:35.82\00:11:37.16
during the judgment
00:11:37.19\00:11:38.53
and leave political situations
here in God's hands to guide.
00:11:38.56\00:11:41.60
I remember
hearing about a famous,
00:11:45.67\00:11:49.84
precious stone
00:11:49.87\00:11:51.21
that came from the Middle East,
00:11:51.24\00:11:52.57
and it was called
the Tears of the Prophet.
00:11:52.61\00:11:55.18
I'm presuming that was Muhammad.
00:11:55.21\00:11:57.01
But what stuck in my mind
of the tears of the Christ.
00:11:57.05\00:12:01.48
It's recorded in the Bible
that looking over Jerusalem,
00:12:01.52\00:12:04.89
Jesus wept on seeing the city
00:12:04.92\00:12:08.06
because it had
persecuted the prophets.
00:12:08.09\00:12:10.03
And as He said, "Not one stone
was to be left upon another."
00:12:10.06\00:12:14.33
That's worth remembering
00:12:14.36\00:12:15.70
when we look at
modern day Jerusalem
00:12:15.73\00:12:17.93
and, of course,
that state of Israel.
00:12:17.97\00:12:22.27
The punishment has
already come upon it.
00:12:22.30\00:12:24.81
Now we need to pray for healing,
00:12:24.84\00:12:26.98
because the Prince,
the Righteous Judge,
00:12:27.01\00:12:30.51
not an earthly judge,
00:12:30.55\00:12:31.88
the Prince is soon to return
00:12:31.91\00:12:33.98
and His reward will be with Him.
00:12:34.02\00:12:36.28
Along the way, we're
seeing embassies come and go,
00:12:36.32\00:12:39.12
armies come and go,
00:12:39.15\00:12:40.92
but Christ and His
eternal truth remains.
00:12:40.96\00:12:45.76
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:45.79\00:12:48.40