Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI210500B
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00:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:02 Before the break, we spent some time. 00:04 And I think it's an interesting time 00:06 talking about North Korea and the difficult situation, 00:10 but the small signs of Christian understanding 00:15 and perhaps one day an opening for Christianity there. 00:19 But let's talk about India. 00:20 Sure. 00:21 You know, after in the west, I think we're ignoring India. 00:26 We see China as a growing political power which it is, 00:29 in fact, it's superseded in some ways 00:31 the US economically. 00:34 India is at close second. 00:35 Yes. 00:37 It's a developing area, massive. 00:39 In Bangalore they have their own Silicon Center. 00:43 Yep, their own. Yeah. 00:45 In fact, you know, I actually had a chance 00:47 to visit India back in 2017. 00:50 And some of the things that I learned, 00:51 it was just fascinating as far as, 00:53 for example, in technology. 00:55 I mean, they've got people that are even gurus, 00:58 you might say, 01:00 with algorithms and math and doing the numbers for, 01:04 you know, cyber work and all of that, 01:06 they're completely very, very high 01:08 well-developed programs that they have there. 01:10 Yeah, I mean there's gross poverty there. 01:12 And the population there, they're over a billion people. 01:14 Right, but it's a growing economic power technologically 01:20 and even geopolitically very few people 01:23 seem to be aware that this is a hot... 01:25 Already a hot fighting war on the border 01:27 between China and India. 01:28 Yeah. 01:30 The other day there was a conflict 01:32 where I think it was about 01:33 a hundred Chinese soldiers were killed. 01:34 Yeah. 01:36 So it's going to shape current events, 01:37 but on religion. 01:39 Yeah. 01:40 When I was there, the thing that I learned 01:43 as I visited different Christian groups 01:45 from the south, all the way up to almost a further, 01:48 well, I got midway up into the country 01:50 and I didn't go further because they warned me. 01:53 They said, the further north you go, 01:55 the more Hindu standing it is, 01:57 meaning that they're more very traditional Hindus. 02:00 And as you probably learned, 02:01 we say India, but who is an Indian? 02:04 There are many tribal and ethnic groups. 02:06 It's a very diverse and huge country. 02:10 Interesting country. 02:11 Yes, for sure. 02:13 With a great history and a history of Christianity, 02:14 you remember the... 02:16 I think it's a little more than tradition, 02:18 but the traditional story 02:19 is that Thomas came up I think to Goa, isn't it? 02:21 Correct. Yep. 02:23 Yeah. Soâ | 02:24 And spread the gospel there. 02:26 And then, of course, Western Christian missionaries 02:27 were there pretty early. 02:29 And well-known Mother Teresa. 02:30 Yes. 02:32 You know, had orphanage in India. 02:33 And the colonial experience, 02:38 which, you know, you can find a lot of problems with it, 02:40 but if anywhere in the world of colonial experience 02:43 seems to have shaped India, the bureaucracy 02:45 and the edifices of English rule 02:49 are pretty much the same. 02:50 Yes. 02:52 And the habits die hard. 02:53 And, of course, the respect for religion, 02:57 and it's a deeply religious country. 02:58 For sure. 03:00 Many religions, Hinduism and as Buddhism and Islam. 03:04 There's Persian emergence, yes. 03:06 Yes. 03:07 'Cause the country's of borders influenced it 03:09 and strong Christianity. 03:10 Yeah. 03:12 You know, the, the concern though 03:13 that I have from visiting there 03:16 and also studying kind of the trajectory from 2017 03:19 onward is that you've got the current administration 03:24 that is very strongly leaning in favor 03:29 of recognizing India as Hindustani. 03:32 In other words, that's the name 03:33 they would like to really revert it 03:35 to and to emphasize the influence of religion. 03:39 We're back to Hindustan, aren't we? 03:42 We made a comment on another program 03:43 that whenever there's a stan after a country, 03:45 there's a little trouble. 03:47 Yes. 03:49 So Hindustan being the original name. 03:52 The land of the Hindus. 03:53 Yes. 03:54 So based on that Hindu being more and more becoming 03:59 recognized as the national religion 04:01 and therefore other groups 04:03 that are minorities like Christianity, 04:05 Islam, and so forth, 04:07 being ostracized from public forums, 04:10 their opinion and viewpoint not having as much weight 04:13 in public discussion and even some of their institutions 04:16 actually being closed or funding being restricted. 04:21 You know, one of the concerns that when I was there, 04:23 that Kristen shared with me is that, 04:26 whereas in the past they were able to receive 04:29 the monetary donations from outside of the country, 04:32 i.e. other countries that would send it in 04:33 to support their school, 04:35 Christian schools or their churches, 04:37 their mission projects, et cetera. 04:39 That is something that the Indian government 04:41 now is using their secret service 04:43 to monitor as those funds come in, 04:45 because they're looking at those groups 04:46 as being divisive to the state and potentially people 04:50 that are enemies of the state. 04:51 Yeah. 04:53 India was very influential to me. 04:55 I was... 04:56 I've been there a couple of times, 04:57 but the first time I was barely out of my teens 05:01 and we went there as a family on the way 05:04 back to Australia because my father had moved 05:06 to the US as a missionary 05:09 from Australia within our church. 05:12 And I saw the dynamic situation of India and people, 05:17 the overwhelming level of people 05:19 was quite shocking to my system. 05:21 And I'm sure you had that same feeling. 05:24 And so I saw the need and the church, 05:27 Adventist Church, 05:28 the Christian Church doing fairly well, 05:30 and many Adventists were joining the church, 05:34 but anybody that had a means and the right initiative, 05:39 a lot of them were going to the US to study 05:42 and not coming back. 05:44 And that shaped my thinking. 05:45 And I determined after visiting India 05:48 that I would go back to Australia, 05:50 which I did after I graduated from Andrews with MA, 05:56 not a doctorate. 05:59 I went back, but I intended to stay there forever. 06:02 And it was only a special call to be a missionary again 06:05 to America that I came back. 06:07 But so it was very pivotal with me. 06:09 And I still tell my wife every now and again, 06:11 when she gets antsy with me. 06:14 I say, you should go to India to, you know, 06:18 there's an awful lot of wonderful people in India, 06:21 they're scrambling for existence, 06:23 trying very hard even to be a beggar 06:25 in some places is hard work. 06:29 To see parents, did you see it with twisted 06:31 little kids with twisted arms 06:33 and that parents will often do that, 06:34 that way they're guaranteed a security as a beggar. 06:37 Yeah. 06:39 And even the taxi driver. 06:40 I remember how, I remember him telling us, 06:43 he says, you like my loyalty sahab, 06:44 my loyalty? 06:45 You know, life is a book that I love on World War I. 06:49 Says, life is not a game, but a grim struggle. 06:52 And for many people in India, that's the case. 06:54 Yeah. 06:56 And yet they're rich in culture and their religious views 06:58 are very multidimensional. 07:02 True. 07:03 And I think that the challenge that one finds there 07:06 in the country of India is that not only from, 07:10 you know, the constitution grants religious freedom, 07:13 it's how it's actually applied. 07:15 Because when I was there 07:16 in the Southern part of the state, 07:18 you've got, it's almost like living 07:20 in a part of the West, right? 07:21 Because there's so much freedoms, 07:24 freedom of expression, freedom of religion. 07:26 The churches don't have issues with trying to obtain property 07:30 and build churches and proselytize, 07:33 but the more, the further north you go, 07:35 it's more centered around Hinduism. 07:39 And that's actually where they've had play, 07:41 some of the villages were devout 07:44 as I call it devout, or maybe I could just say veryâ | 07:47 Hindu nationalists, 07:48 they identify being a Hindu mostly an Indian. 07:50 Yeah. 07:51 They attack Christians and, you know, cut off arms and limbs, 07:56 burn them, all kinds of attacks. 07:58 I don't know the breakdown of laws within India, 08:01 but India generally, in its overall constitution 08:04 has adopted many Western liberal concepts of, you know, 08:09 bringing all together aside. 08:11 In my view, the biggest problem is not laws, it's communities. 08:16 And those communities that you mentioned 08:18 where there's the strong prejudicial atmosphere 08:22 or attitude toward non-Hindus usually, 08:25 but there's Christian and Muslim and other, 08:28 remember Pakistan is a product of that. 08:30 They had a civil war on religion 08:32 and that which caused the formation of Pakistan. 08:35 And then in my lifetime, 08:37 they fought with the East Pakistan, 08:40 which then became Bangladesh. 08:42 It was a country that was split by a civil war. 08:45 So I don't think the laws are the major problem in India, 08:50 but the cultural, tribal, 08:53 regional aspect of different religions 08:55 and commensurate with that often 08:57 the low education in the village level. 08:59 Yeah. 09:01 There's periodically just, you know, 09:03 where a hundred people are killed 09:05 in an orgy of murders in a little town. 09:09 You know, another thing I think related though on that, 09:12 this topic of looking at the global perspective 09:15 of countries and kind of movements, right? 09:17 So there is an element of nationalism 09:19 that again is trying to blend 09:21 in with religion making Hindu... 09:24 Hinduism, the national religion, 09:26 and the current administration with that focus, 09:29 they're wanting to lead it 09:31 in the direction of maybe by 2025, 09:34 having that established as a part of the nation. 09:37 Yeah, and there's something going on, you're right, 09:39 in a visible level, I noticed that the other day 09:42 that Prime Minister Modi, he said, yeah Modi. 09:46 Yep, Modi. 09:47 You know, I remember no more than about 09:49 two years ago, seeing him with Putin at a public meeting, 09:52 very westernized looking clean shave in Goa, 09:56 no criticism of you, but now he's like an Indian sadhu 10:01 he's got a long flowing white beard. 10:04 And so I don't think it's just a personal, 10:10 you know, adornment, 10:12 I think he's just throwing a signal 10:14 to this more ancestral religious view 10:18 of what it is to be Indian. 10:19 So there's something going on. You're right. 10:21 For sure. 10:23 So India and North Korea, right? 10:27 Where do we go from here on that? 10:29 Yeah. 10:30 You know, I think that certainly as Christians, 10:32 we recognize the global picture 10:35 and the need of Christians around the world. 10:37 And certainly, in these countries, 10:39 we've talked about North Korea and India 10:41 taking time to pray for them on a daily basis. 10:44 Not only for those of our own faith, 10:46 but other Christian groups that face daily challenges 10:50 to live out their faith in those countries. 10:52 And as we do that, we can be assured that Christ 10:54 will answer our prayers 10:56 on behalf of believers globally. |
Revised 2021-07-23