Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI210498B
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00:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:02 Before the break with guest Ed Cooke, 00:04 we were talking about China, 00:06 and I wanted to go back a little way 00:09 to explain their attitude toward religion. 00:13 You know, Chinese religion is complex, 00:16 but Confucianism is dominant. 00:18 Sure. 00:19 There's a little bit of Buddhism, 00:22 but I think Confucianism 00:24 and really in today's China, they're not 00:26 necessarily religious, but traditional. 00:29 And that's where 00:33 the Falun Gong got into trouble. 00:34 People are attracted to the traditions 00:36 and that offended the communist. 00:38 But I think there's a deeper reason 00:41 within China, culturally, quite apart from communism, 00:44 why they are a bit suspicious of Christianity in the West. 00:47 It goes back a way, doesn't it? 00:49 Yeah. 00:50 When did Christianity really hit China? 00:52 Well, back at the time period of, 00:53 you had the Protestant Reformation in 1518 onward, 00:57 and then around 1560 you had the organization 01:00 and the founding of the Jesuit order, 01:01 the Society of Jesus 01:03 from within the Catholic Church. 01:05 And one of the primary goals was to in essence resist 01:09 and try to overthrow and eradicate Protestantism. 01:13 Well, that was their... 01:14 I mean, that's why Ignatius of Loyola founded it. 01:17 I mean, as they developed they became missionaries 01:22 to non-Christian places. 01:23 So it wasn't just against Protestantism, 01:26 but their founding reason was to be warriors, 01:29 to war violently. 01:32 In fact, not if necessary 01:34 presumed violence against non-Catholics. 01:37 Correct. 01:38 And from there they developed 01:40 or, of course, organized into missionary 01:42 works as well as educators. 01:44 And so part of it was Charles Xavier 01:47 that traveled over to China and began doing a work 01:50 on behalf of the Catholic Church there 01:52 in China. 01:53 And, you know, one can say that in, 01:56 when looks at the history of the Jesuit order, 01:59 their first entry 02:00 into a large number of countries, 02:02 not just over in Asia, but also in Latin America, 02:05 South and Central America. 02:07 In those countries, 02:09 they started out with a good beginning 02:10 starting out with orphanages, 02:12 taking time to educate the children... 02:14 And they were often the educators to the nobility. 02:17 Correct. 02:18 They insinuated themselves the court advisors and so on. 02:21 So one can say that their 02:23 first beginnings were often good 02:25 and benevolent, 02:27 at least in appearance and the actions they did, 02:29 but over time, especially by 1750, 02:33 there were a number of the Jesuits 02:34 that were actually expelled 02:36 from not only South American countries, 02:38 but also from Asian countries like China. 02:41 And I think that's due to their involvement 02:43 in politics to the extent 02:45 that those countries felt that they, 02:46 that those orders and movements 02:48 became a threat to national security. 02:50 Yeah. 02:52 And that was the earliest Christian influence in China. 02:55 But as far as China's attitude 02:57 toward the so-called Christian West, 02:59 which is, we know talking about Christian nation in the US 03:03 that's really in the modern era of a false assumption, 03:07 maybe a Christian sensibility in the culture, 03:11 but it's a wrong idea to think 03:16 that this was all Christian activity, 03:18 but still in the imperial colonial aspirations 03:23 of most of the European powers, China was the prize, 03:26 and China resisted 03:28 it because of this insularity that I've spoken about. 03:31 And more and more, 03:33 they began to see the Jesuit missionaries 03:35 and some other missionaries 03:36 as really a front line of the enemy coming at them. 03:40 And that's when there was a bit of a turnabout. 03:42 And then one of the worst days... 03:45 Excuse me, I was just going to say on that point, 03:47 that mindset from back in that time period 03:51 is what still prevails today 03:53 with the Chinese Communist Party. 03:55 Because part of what they look at 03:56 is that if you've got a foreign, 03:58 you've got a religious organization that has... 04:00 Absolutely, that's the point I'm trying to make too. 04:02 Foreigner that is coming in into the country. 04:04 And they're not wrong. 04:06 They say that they're coming in 04:07 with actually underlying motives, right? 04:11 They have a hidden agenda through by doing that. 04:14 You know, I used to take a sermon on it. 04:17 I'm very enamored, this is taking another country. 04:20 But Stanley Jones, a missionary to India 04:23 ran up against this cultural resistance 04:26 to the whole Christian message. 04:29 And on one meeting 04:32 that was central to his ministry, 04:35 Brahman priest, I think it was, says, 04:37 we don't care for your Christ of the West, 04:40 your Western Christ. 04:41 And he thought quickly. 04:43 And so he described Jesus like a Hindu holy man, 04:46 wandering down the dusty roads 04:50 and functioning as they would and reaching out to people. 04:52 And the guy says, 04:54 I think I could learn to love the Christ of the Indian road, 04:56 to love and serve the Christ of the Indian road. 04:59 But that's something that Christianity, 05:01 as it reached out to other countries 05:03 is often not understood in essence, 05:07 in projecting Christian faith, 05:09 it's basically westernizing people. 05:11 And I think, 05:13 I don't believe Christ would be in such a thing. 05:16 The spiritual realities of an eternal kingdom 05:19 shouldn't be linked 05:20 to any particular cultural up here. 05:23 Especially given the fact that 05:24 Jesus came from the Middle East Himself, right? 05:27 Well, you would know that from those Bibles. 05:31 I mean, you know, the pictures in those Bibles, 05:33 but anyhow the crude graph for China's attitude 05:38 toward the Christian West 05:40 was when the imperial colonial powers 05:45 had wanted control of China 05:48 and the way they were doing 05:50 it was a very lucrative opium trade. 05:53 To subjugate China, 05:54 they were pushing opium on them, 05:56 and they actually went to war with China 05:59 and humiliated China to force it, 06:02 to give opium to its population 06:04 because they were making so much money from the opium. 06:06 So it left a very bad residual taste in China. 06:09 And the communists have picked up on 06:11 what this Christian West is really after. 06:14 Correct me if I'm wrong, Lincoln, 06:16 but what, there was a significant part 06:18 that that Britain played though in that, correct? 06:21 Of course. 06:22 Yeah, in that portion of history, right? 06:24 Coming in... 06:26 And then there was the boxer rebellion 06:28 where the Chinese at that time 06:32 had kept most of the foreigners in an enclave. 06:36 And so that came under attack and yeah, it was, 06:40 they held out for 40-50 days with a wild attack, 06:44 but China was humiliated. 06:46 And then even in World War II, 06:49 China was politically tumultuous. 06:54 And the allies pretty much told China what to do 06:58 because the Japanese had come up in Manchuria. 07:00 So it's been the play thing of Western wars and intrigues 07:05 and trading rivalries for a long time. 07:07 This explains though and just kind of putting 07:10 this short historical synopsis in its perspective, right? 07:14 But this explains why not only from the period of 07:17 as they call it, 07:19 the cultural revolution with Mao Tse-tung, 07:22 but even current leaders like Xi Jinping, 07:25 the current leader there in China 07:27 is looking at it of wanting to reestablish China 07:32 in its historical context 07:34 i.e. the period of prosperity 07:37 before they had these issues with the West. 07:39 They don't want foreign entanglements 07:42 and true religion shouldn't fear that, 07:44 but, you know, they had a famous dispute 07:48 of a few years ago with Rome. 07:50 Remember over who appointed the Catholic bishops. 07:53 Yeah. 07:54 And, you know, you can see it from both sides. 07:56 Of course, you have 07:58 the Roman Catholic Church based in Rome. 08:00 It's an offense to them that here this government 08:02 is determining who the bishops are, 08:04 but in China where they fear foreign influence 08:08 a Christian power half a world away is gonna tell them 08:12 who leads the community 08:14 in these very influential positions. 08:16 And at that point coming back to what I mentioned 08:18 at the beginning of this program, 08:20 dealing with the 2018 law. 08:22 It actually maintains that posture 08:25 where the current pope has actually conceded to that. 08:29 So he says, okay, let the Chinese government 08:31 choose who the bishops will be, and we will simply accept that. 08:34 Well, they had to, or else it was to be expelled. 08:36 Yes. 08:38 And, you know, I'm not one way or the other on this. 08:40 Culturally, I see the Chinese position 08:43 from a point of religious practice. 08:45 Yes, it's very offensive to have a civil power 08:48 telling a church how to operate, 08:50 but there was a setup on this. 08:52 And in the past, 08:53 this sort of privilege has been abused. 08:56 As you know, the Roman Catholic Church, 08:58 I think is quite ideally situated 09:01 to abuse this sense that it's at one time 09:03 as a political power and a religious power 09:06 where I think a religious 09:07 organization could more easily 09:11 strip away its cultural origins 09:13 and preach the pure gospel of Christ. 09:16 So we need to pray for China, 09:17 there's a lot of potential in China. 09:19 And, but a lot of backlash that is not just communist, 09:23 it's historic, it's cultural. 09:25 It goes back a long, long way. 09:27 Many centuries. Yeah. 09:28 And my point is, they're not necessarily misunderstandings, 09:32 they're lessons they learned from history 09:34 and in the West 09:36 in those elements of Christianity, 09:38 we need to be sure that we project Christianity 09:40 in a Christ-like way, don't you think? 09:42 I think that that's the most important thing. 09:44 You know, we as Christians 09:46 whatever part of the world we live in, 09:48 and in particular those living in China 09:50 as this program has highlighted the importance of us 09:53 to live at the principles of Christ 09:56 in the context and the culture that we're living in, 09:59 in such a way 10:00 as to be the best witness that we possibly can. |
Revised 2021-07-09