Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200493B
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00:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:02 before the break with Clifford Goldstein, 00:04 a man of very few opinions. 00:05 I'm sure you've been. 00:07 We started to talk about COVID 00:09 and how it's changed everything. 00:10 Scary. 00:12 And no matter when this program comes out, 00:15 I can confidently be certain that it will be a changed model 00:18 from before COVID. 00:20 Yeah. 00:21 Like probably will never get back. 00:23 Yeah, they talked about that 00:24 and people have found it very disconcerting, 00:27 you know, where we were so used, 00:30 and it's scary 00:31 because you know, you'll look at history 00:33 of where some of these fascist regimes 00:37 and this oppressive regimes. 00:40 It's times of uncertainty, 00:43 people want certainty 00:46 and COVID has changed everything. 00:51 Well, I think any student of history knows 00:55 we're in a model now that clearly will give rise, 00:58 maybe not in the U S that's debatable, 01:00 but it clearly will give rise to a new fascism, absolutism, 01:05 that's said. 01:06 Well, you know, it's very interesting too, 01:08 from a religious perspective, and even from a... 01:12 I'll say a Seventh-day Adventist perspective. 01:16 I became an Adventist about 40 some years ago, 01:20 and I learned the Adventist message. 01:22 And I was interested in religious liberty 01:25 because of our understanding. 01:27 The Book of Revelation 01:29 clearly talks about religious persecution. 01:32 Absolutely. 01:33 The mark of the beast, 01:34 you can't buy or sell, if you don't worship, 01:37 you worship God, the Creator, 01:40 or you worship the beast and his image. 01:44 By the way, I need to interject. 01:45 I've told people over and over again, 01:47 the subtleties of this escape many people, 01:49 but there's one litmus test. 01:50 If there's coercion involved, it's not religious liberty. 01:53 Yeah, right. Yeah. 01:54 It's an easy way to think. 01:56 Well, yeah, yeah, well, okay, you're right or you're right. 01:57 I mean, there's always a certain amount of, 01:59 well, whatever, anyway, but I... 02:02 They're not coercion. Yeah. 02:03 You're forced into to love God is not love. 02:06 You're forced, it just can't function. 02:09 It's self canceling. 02:10 Yeah. Anyway. All right. 02:11 Fair enough in terms of worship. 02:13 Yeah. But anyway, I... 02:16 We've often, 02:17 it's always was hard how to see this happening, 02:22 how to see this, 02:23 and our understanding of the role of America, 02:26 it's always hard to see this happening. 02:31 I believed it. 02:33 I live by faith, not by sight. 02:35 I remember when I first heard this message 02:38 and the role of American prophecy, 02:40 I used to think, well, you know, 02:43 I heard this in 1979, we just gotten out of Vietnam. 02:48 We're still licking our wounds out of Vietnam. 02:50 We couldn't kick a tin pot dictator 02:53 for 90 miles off our shore because of the Soviet Union. 02:58 The Soviet Union was supporting the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. 03:03 Fidel Castro was sending troops to Angola. 03:06 The Russky sent troops to Afghanistan. 03:09 And what did Jimmy Carter 03:10 who kept the pole vaulters 03:12 out of the Olympics or something, you know. 03:13 But the point is, it was very hard in 1979. 03:18 I need to correct your history, 03:19 the US made an undertaking with Khrushchev, 03:22 they never would invade Cuba. 03:23 Yeah. But whatever it was. 03:24 But I'm just saying, 03:26 the Soviet was a big power everywhere. 03:28 The Russian bear. 03:30 And we were projecting Christian values, 03:33 Western Christian values against God was communism, 03:35 an easy construct. 03:37 But the thing was in 1979, 1980, 03:42 I used to think, 03:43 how could prophecy ever be fulfilled? 03:45 How could America ever fulfill its prophetic role 03:49 with the Soviet Union? 03:50 What? 03:52 Was the Soviet Union going to just disappear or something? 03:54 Yeah. 03:56 And, well, that's exactly what happened. 03:57 But even then, 03:58 even after the collapse of communism 04:01 and the Eastern Bloc, 04:03 you know, America's democracy has been social. 04:05 We talked earlier about Watergate. 04:08 I mean, what happened? 04:09 The most powerful man in the world... 04:12 Was sent packing. Was sent packing. 04:13 Crying about his mama. 04:15 But what happened, what happened? 04:16 Nixon gives a speech, 04:19 gets on his helicopter, flies away. 04:22 Jerry Ford raises his right hand, 04:24 puts his hand on the Bible swears 04:26 and a transition of power. 04:28 Our democratic institutions were so strong 04:32 that we have that, 04:33 not a tank in the street, nothing, 04:35 but where we are today? 04:37 Well, what you're getting at. 04:38 Where we are today, I don't see a thing of that. 04:40 The institutions were only, 04:42 they were no stronger than they are now. 04:43 They were only more solid 04:46 because the general assumptions 04:47 throughout the population was supportive... 04:49 Yeah, but now? 04:51 And they are not now. 04:52 Oh, yeah, now it's so... 04:53 And then the difference today, 04:55 which I think is a danger point. 04:58 The US is a powerful country and you can't ever remove it. 05:01 I mean, 300 and some million people 05:04 has its own... 05:05 We were plummet, whoo! 05:07 But the US as an empire, 05:10 which it never was narrowly speaking 05:12 is not in ascendancy, it's in decline. 05:14 It feels under stress. 05:16 And in my take on history, 05:18 it's a power under stress 05:21 that is more inclined 05:23 for radical of the ill thought actions. 05:25 Well, I think through the COVID 05:26 with between the internal dissent 05:29 in the country 05:30 that we had before COVID, 05:33 and then you add COVID to it and whoo, 05:39 I mean, this is a whole new ball of wax. 05:42 I'm 65 years old. 05:43 I've lived in this country most of my life 05:45 I've been overseas, lived overseas... 05:47 I didn't realize you were so old, Cliff. 05:49 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 05:51 And I feel it too. I won't give mine. 05:52 Yeah, yeah. 05:54 But I've never seen it like this. 05:59 Now, it is spooky. 06:01 It's a shake up 06:02 for all of the norms of society. 06:05 Very good for Amazon. 06:07 Yeah. 06:09 Mail order and internet and so on. 06:11 But the norms of society have been shifted 06:14 and let's get back to religion. 06:16 The original sin 06:18 of the response to COVID in this country, 06:20 and in many others 06:22 was religion didn't pass muster as an essential service. 06:25 Yeah. 06:27 It was, I don't think it was done 06:28 with deep seated malice. 06:30 Yeah. 06:31 But it was done with a sort of a dismissal 06:32 of the value of religion by people 06:34 that were nominally religious, perhaps, but secular leaders, 06:38 you know, separation of church and state. 06:39 Yeah. 06:41 But they just slapped down and, you know, go home and, 06:43 you know, zoom your way to God. 06:45 It's a balance. 06:46 You've got to strike a balance there too, 06:48 because yeah, yeah, no, it was a, it's a problem. 06:52 It's a problem, I agree. 06:54 And... 06:55 And at very least I believe it's, 06:57 you know, I can't make a good case 06:59 for the governance in the US 07:02 deciding to persecute those that worship. 07:05 I mean, elements of it were prejudicial, 07:07 but I don't think there's any, but I can make a good case. 07:11 This is a good moment of truth. 07:13 Those that were ready to resist persecution and all the rest. 07:16 Yeah. 07:17 Why did they go to sleep on command like that? 07:19 Yeah. 07:21 If you went down so easy, what will you do? 07:22 As the Bible says you haven't... 07:24 If you've run with the horseman and is wearied. 07:26 And if you run with the horseman 07:28 and he is wearied, 07:29 then what will you do with the horses? 07:30 That's right. Yeah. 07:33 And something that I said with Liberty Magazine, 07:35 and it's worth thinking about, 07:36 in the US we have a good constitution, 07:39 not divine, but pretty well thought out. 07:42 It's worked well, separation of church and state. 07:44 So people have become expectant 07:46 that you would be granted your religious freedom, 07:49 but in reality, 07:50 it maybe not to the ends degree and you have to decide 07:53 there's a price to pay 07:55 for my faithfulness to God 07:57 in this case with my conscience. 07:59 I need to be prepared to pay that price 08:01 if it's required of me. 08:02 People don't seem to be, 08:03 if the government says shut down, 08:05 I shut down and I don't think, 08:06 but maybe my conscience says 08:08 I should, you know, forsake not the meeting 08:10 of itself together, 08:12 Yeah, in fairness even 08:13 to a lot of the religious people, 08:15 COVID was scary at first. 08:18 And your wonderful news media 08:21 that you seem to think so highly 08:23 of, you know, it's hard to know, 08:25 you know, I mean, 08:27 this disease has like what a 98, 99.6% survival rate, 08:32 but oh, you know, were going to be massive. 08:35 You know, the ships at sea... 08:37 But nobody knew initially. 08:38 We know now. Okay. 08:39 But see, that's what I'm saying. 08:41 So in the beginning, 08:42 I didn't have a problem at first 08:44 when they were talking about not going to church. 08:46 Well, you know, you've got this deadly disease 08:48 and you'd be smart to... 08:49 Yeah. 08:51 Like in the Middle East there's MERS, 08:52 another Coronavirus, 40% death rate. 08:54 Yeah. 08:56 So I thought the other day, 08:57 can you imagine 08:58 if this thing had a 10 or a 20% death rate? 09:02 Whoo! 09:04 It would be a whole new ball whack. 09:07 Yet the Black Death in Europe 09:10 paved the way for the Renaissance 09:13 and the Reformation. 09:15 Well, so great. 09:16 So kill 30, 40 million people and we will... 09:18 But we are at a moment of truth 09:20 and COVID really has brought us 09:22 face to face with certain realities 09:24 and how we respond is important, isn't it? 09:26 Yeah. 09:28 Well, you know, COVID has changed everything. 09:32 Where it'll lead, I wouldn't begin to guess, 09:35 but if history is any... 09:39 Old history, we can learn from history 09:43 times of stress and strain 09:46 and fear things like civil freedoms, 09:50 things like religious freedoms, 09:52 things like political freedoms have not fared well. 09:58 And so I think we... 10:02 For those of us who care about religious liberty 10:04 at a time like this, especially in COVID, 10:08 you'd need to really take heed or phew. 10:17 It surprises no one that the New Testament 10:20 should clearly mention the Roman Empire. 10:25 Since, the Roman emperors 10:27 had so much to do negatively often 10:30 with the development of early Christianity. 10:33 For us living, what is palpably, 10:37 if not the end of time for some secularists 10:41 a time that appears the culmination 10:44 of the run of history to quote Francis Fukuyama. 10:48 It should surprise no one in this age 10:50 that the United States 10:52 might be also mentioned in prophecy. 10:55 There is an apocalyptic vein to United States' history, 11:00 the manifest destiny 11:02 to go from one shot or the other 11:03 to dispossess, 11:05 and ultimately to all that exterminate 11:08 the original dwellers. 11:10 This is the stuff of Rome 11:12 and perhaps the stuff of a great power 11:15 predicted to play a part in the very end time events, 11:19 compelling to a certain form of obedience. 11:23 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2021-02-25