Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200490A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is your program 00:30 designed to bring you news, views, up-to-date information, 00:32 and even analysis of religious liberty 00:35 in the United States and around the world. 00:38 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty magazine. 00:42 And my guest on this program is Pati Lawrence, 00:45 and they might know pretty well. 00:47 Yes, they should, yes. 00:48 Now we've had many contacts. Yes. 00:50 And I wanna talk about one of our contacts recently, 00:54 and I didn't start off by directly contacting you. 00:57 We're in a COVID panic in some ways, 01:01 the whole western world 01:03 and the United States is rocking over it. 01:05 And one of the side effects 01:07 is the churches really had to scale back 01:11 and many of what things that they do 01:13 including meeting in the church. 01:14 And that's frustrated me as a religious liberty worker 01:20 and as a Seventh-day Adventist 01:21 preparing for the time of trouble, 01:23 at a time when it will be difficult 01:25 to do this and that, 01:26 and the other will be prevented. 01:28 And here, it's like the switches turned 01:30 and nothing is going on of any consequence. 01:34 And I was taken by news reports of a church, 01:38 a large mega-church as a conundrum. 01:42 A mega church in California 01:44 that was meeting 01:45 in defiance of the government orders. 01:48 And so I contacted our religious liberty people 01:53 for California, and they contacted you. 01:55 Me. 01:56 Because I wanted also to speak 01:58 to a Seventh-day Adventist Church. 01:59 And you were very kindly with the intermediary there 02:02 to arrange at White Memorial, wasn't it? 02:04 White Memorial, yes. 02:05 And you came and we had a good contact as usual 02:10 and sort of talking at you, 02:11 but this is a preface to then taking it more widely. 02:15 But I attended this church on Sunday, 02:18 this mega-church pastored by John MacArthur. 02:23 I am not sympathetic to their naive view 02:28 that they don't need to wear masks 02:29 or maintain much social distance. 02:31 That's really an option, not optional, 02:35 but that's apart from the real issue at play. 02:37 The issue at play, I think, 02:38 is that in locking down elements of society, 02:42 our authorities, in most, every state were panicked. 02:46 I don't think there was much forethought 02:48 and they did not include church worship 02:51 and church operations in as necessary services. 02:55 Some things remained over 02:56 because it was like supermarkets 02:58 you have to go there, 03:00 not churches 03:01 and this church closed down like others, 03:04 but after a while, they thought, 03:06 well, we're being unduly restricted, 03:08 it might be an open-ended thing. 03:09 And so they decided to meet again 03:10 and they've met with much, much resistance, 03:13 fines and threats, 03:15 even of imprisonment. 03:17 So it was a great experience to go along 03:18 and refreshing to see people 03:21 in their thousands meeting there 03:23 and exalting in the privilege of knowing the Lord 03:26 and seeking comfort in a time of stress. 03:29 And I thought that 03:31 regardless of their legal standing, 03:33 that's a sign of people glorying in the Lord 03:36 in a time of trial. 03:39 But back to your part, it just reminded me again, 03:42 both within our church and other areas, 03:45 the opportunities that have been provided to you 03:48 to be that bridging person 03:50 and that person in the right place 03:53 at the right time, 03:54 you know, you helped me on that, 03:57 maybe it's sort of an experimental outing 04:00 to verify for my own satisfaction 04:02 that even in this time when so many Christians 04:05 and some other faiths, I'm sure, 04:07 have sort of on command gone back to their homes 04:10 and shuttered the windows and end of it. 04:13 I can't speak to their inner spiritual life, 04:16 but as far as the gathering together 04:19 that we're told to continue ceased, 04:23 and I'm glad that some people still seek 04:25 that communion with God in a public way, 04:28 but how have you found in this COVID era, 04:32 your context, and your ongoing activities? 04:36 Well, speaking of this church, White Memorial, 04:39 it is a blessing to go there. 04:41 They have it very well 04:42 within the requirements that are needed 04:44 to keep us safe. 04:45 Yes, I should have said that. 04:46 They were outside under a canopy... 04:48 We were under a canopy. With distance and so on. 04:49 We were distant, masks were on, 04:52 there were about maybe 60 people, 50, 60 people. 04:55 There was a good crowd of people. 04:57 Might have been more than that, 04:58 it was close to a hundred, yeah. 04:59 Yeah. And it was very good. 05:01 The pastor's amazing there. 05:02 And when I called and asked that you were coming, 05:05 he didn't even hesitate. 05:06 Of course, bring him, yes. 05:09 He either knows me very well or doesn't know me at all. 05:13 No, I'm sure. I talked to him. 05:15 He knows religious liberty. Yes, yes. 05:16 And I've been there visiting a couple of times, 05:18 and that's where, again, the relationship building, 05:21 not just in the elected officials offices 05:23 or in community, 05:24 but when we build relationships with our own churches, 05:26 I mean, we're one church, we're one people, 05:28 we're one church family. 05:29 We're not strangers within our own churches. 05:31 Well, and I'm bringing this up for a reason because, 05:35 you know, Liberty magazine has existed 05:38 in the Adventist Church 05:39 for well over a hundred years 05:40 and its predecessor back to the very beginnings, 05:44 toward the two-thirds of the way 05:46 through the last century, not the last, yes, the last. 05:49 Yes, the last. 05:52 But even at this late point, 05:54 it's not a forgone thing 05:56 that every Adventist pastor 05:58 is favorable to religious liberty work. 06:01 There's a great work of education 06:02 that needs to be done. 06:04 They think it's for someone else's problem 06:06 or worse and it's just a legal issue 06:08 that, which they're not concerned. 06:10 And so we have to educate them. 06:12 So to find because of your context, 06:14 a very positive reception, to me, that's gratifying. 06:17 I've met quite a few pastors, 06:19 visited quite a few of our churches, 06:21 and I've been able to be blessed by new church family. 06:24 They're amazing. 06:26 And now because of COVID, 06:27 I can't go into their churches like I used to. 06:29 And when they have a ministry program vespers, 06:32 or they have an event coming up, 06:34 I'm always there to also just show support, 06:36 hello, I'm here. 06:37 And I bring some materials, Liberty magazine, 06:40 and brochures and things to, 06:41 to hand out and just show them, 06:43 I'm here to support you because we're family, 06:45 we're a church family, 06:47 and I don't believe 06:48 we should be strangers in our own churches. 06:49 No. 06:51 But now that there's COVID, 06:52 we're very limited to how many churches are open, 06:54 but I'm still growing church families via Zoom, 06:56 via conference calls. 06:58 It's not the same, but going to White Memorial, 07:01 it was a good experience again to be out 07:03 and worshiping with people. 07:04 Yeah. 07:06 And under the tents, I mean, our pioneers did. 07:08 That's how they started out. They were under the tents. 07:10 And it wasn't just Adventist pioneers, 07:12 that was an era of the tent missions 07:16 and the a state of I think was the term they used, 07:18 basically, summer religious camps, 07:21 wait for the whole summer, 07:22 people would be camping out 07:24 and gathering in a big tent. 07:25 And it's nice and it's comfortable. 07:27 Revival sermons and so on. 07:29 That was the whole context. 07:30 There are some times I've gone to White Memorial 07:32 and under a shaded trees there on the grass area there 07:34 where people put out a blanket 07:35 and families sit down on the blanket 07:37 which is wonderful. 07:38 It's a wonderful, comfortable feeling 07:40 with singing songs and sermons, 07:42 but we're all safe and wearing masks. 07:43 Yeah. 07:45 No, it's wonderful, and I was inspired by it. 07:48 But tell me more, I know you've got stories. 07:51 Yes, I have lot of stories. 07:54 What other experiences have you been blessed 07:56 to go through as you've reached out 07:59 to legislators, community leaders, 08:02 and community groups? 08:04 Well, again, with the non-profits, 08:06 when I, I'll go back to, 08:07 I mentioned human trafficking on another show. 08:11 I met them when I received the flyer 08:14 from L.A County supervisor 08:15 and I attended the trafficking event. 08:20 I was again called 08:21 into helping the stories I heard, 08:23 you know, the labor trafficking and the other traffic. 08:26 I mean, it's the buying and selling 08:28 of women and children. 08:30 It's here in America. 08:31 It's no longer a third world country issue, 08:33 it's here. 08:34 But I met a community leader who also lives in my city 08:37 who started sponsoring his own programs and events. 08:40 So I partnered with him and I learned through him. 08:43 That's how I started meeting other nonprofits 08:46 that are all out to help each other. 08:48 And it really is a close, it's a small world as they say, 08:50 not to use that cliche, but it is a small world. 08:53 People that are out there 08:54 doing what's good and what's right. 08:56 And when they see that you're there consistently, 08:58 and that's the key, consistently show up. 09:01 You start building those relationships. 09:03 I met a woman there who was a survivor 09:06 of being trafficked herself. 09:08 She's the one that had legislative ideas 09:11 to help stop 09:12 some of the perpetrators and the... 09:15 I guess for want of a better term, 09:16 but the purchasers of these women and children. 09:20 And because of her, 09:21 when I showed her what I did and gave her the NARLA card 09:24 and said, we build 09:25 relationships with elected officials. 09:27 She reached out to me, she says, 09:28 "Patty, can you help me with this legislature? 09:30 Do you think we can meet with someone in government 09:33 we can present these ideas to?" 09:35 I said, "Of course." 09:36 And again, it was the Congresswoman. 09:38 And, we did have an appointment for her, 09:40 with her legislative policy director, 09:44 myself, 09:46 the woman who was the ex survivor 09:47 we met in the office, 09:49 then her policy director says, 09:51 "You know, Congresswoman has a heart for this. 09:54 She wants to do something. 09:56 Would you be willing to sit face to face with her 09:58 at a table, round table discussion?" 10:01 Yes, of course. I'm thinking, really God. 10:03 I mean, that's more than I could have asked for, 10:04 again, more than I could have asked for. 10:07 And this woman who now runs 10:09 a nonprofit sheltering victims of human trafficking, 10:14 bringing them to being survivors. 10:17 She says, Pati really? And I go, we said, yes. 10:19 Less than a month later, 10:21 we had a round table with the Congresswoman 10:23 discussing these legislative ideas. 10:24 This trafficking thing you be on the inside of 10:28 is a primarily people 10:30 that are brought into the country 10:32 by sponsors that, 10:34 hold it over them 10:35 as they're in indenture basically 10:38 or is it Americans 10:40 that one way or another held hostage and traded? 10:45 In the labor trafficking, 10:47 we've discovered that there are people 10:48 coming from other countries. 10:50 And when they are here, 10:51 when they arrive either in the way 10:53 of containers or on boats. 10:55 I know of, this is why I'm beating on it. 10:57 Yes, they do come in that way, and what the perpetrators do. 11:00 And they never really allowed 11:01 to pay off their fees to bring them in. 11:03 Exactly. 11:04 And then the perpetrators also greet them and meet them. 11:07 And they pretend like they're their best friend. 11:09 We're going to help you. 11:11 We'll get you a job, 11:12 but we need to see your paperwork. 11:13 And if they do have... And they take it. 11:15 Exactly, if they do have paperwork, 11:17 they hold on to that paperwork. 11:18 They are in the hospitality roles, 11:20 in our hotels and wealthy people's homes, 11:24 on the fishing boats 11:26 that we have out of our harbors, 11:28 they're really everywhere. 11:29 And then the other, the sex trafficking, sadly, 11:33 there's a lot of parents who are on drugs. 11:36 The perpetrators know how to choose these people 11:39 that have children or teenage girls. 11:42 And they say, you know, for money, 11:44 I don't want to go into details, 11:46 but you could imagine the hovers of what, 11:48 happened because a mother, a single mother who's on drugs. 11:52 She's enticed by the money and says, here's my... 11:56 Well, just a few days ago, 11:57 I was watching a program 11:59 about an FBI sting program against drug dealers. 12:02 And the FBI agent said he was amazed 12:05 because he was portraying himself 12:06 as the drug dealer. 12:08 This woman couldn't come up 12:09 with the money for the trade deal. 12:11 It was a big deal. 12:12 She offered her infant child. Yes. 12:14 She would give the child. 12:16 And he says, what sort of a person, 12:18 what sort of a situation they would give away a child? 12:21 And we've seen it firsthand. 12:22 It was a group, an interfaith group. 12:24 We would go out on a Friday night. 12:25 We know an area in a city. 12:27 I won't say the city. 12:28 There's a motel that's used, doesn't, 12:30 the name of the motel is even, sign isn't even outside. 12:34 And there's an alleyway. 12:36 And we go out there during the times 12:37 that we know the perpetrators will be there 12:38 and purchasers are there looking for what you sells. 12:42 It's a wicked world. It's horrible. 12:44 But it's worth remembering 12:45 not to over-exaggerate you know America, 12:50 it's a wonderful country by and large, 12:52 but it's not, you know, we are great. 12:54 And the rest of the world is horrible. 12:55 It's here. It's here. 12:57 And there are deep and deadly problems 12:58 that need to be addressed. 13:00 Stay with us. 13:01 We'll be back after a short break 13:02 to continue this discussion with Pati. |
Revised 2021-02-05