Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is your program
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designed to bring you news,
views, up-to-date information,
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and even analysis
of religious liberty
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty magazine.
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And my guest on this
program is Pati Lawrence,
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and they might know pretty well.
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Yes, they should, yes.
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Now we've had
many contacts. Yes.
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And I wanna talk about
one of our contacts recently,
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and I didn't start off
by directly contacting you.
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We're in a COVID
panic in some ways,
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the whole western world
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and the United
States is rocking over it.
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And one of the side effects
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is the churches
really had to scale back
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and many of what
things that they do
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including meeting in the church.
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And that's frustrated me
as a religious liberty worker
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and as a Seventh-day Adventist
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preparing for
the time of trouble,
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at a time when
it will be difficult
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to do this and that,
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and the other will be prevented.
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And here, it's
like the switches turned
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and nothing is going
on of any consequence.
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And I was taken by
news reports of a church,
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a large
mega-church as a conundrum.
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A mega church in California
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that was meeting
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in defiance of
the government orders.
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And so I contacted our
religious liberty people
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for California,
and they contacted you.
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Me.
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Because I wanted also to speak
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to a Seventh-day
Adventist Church.
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And you were very kindly
with the intermediary there
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to arrange at White
Memorial, wasn't it?
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White Memorial, yes.
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And you came and we
had a good contact as usual
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and sort of talking at you,
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but this is a preface to
then taking it more widely.
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But I attended
this church on Sunday,
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this mega-church
pastored by John MacArthur.
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I am not
sympathetic to their naive view
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that they don't
need to wear masks
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or maintain
much social distance.
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That's really an
option, not optional,
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but that's apart from
the real issue at play.
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The issue at play, I think,
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is that in locking
down elements of society,
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our authorities, in most,
every state were panicked.
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I don't think there
was much forethought
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and they did not
include church worship
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and church operations
in as necessary services.
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Some things remained over
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because it was like supermarkets
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you have to go there,
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not churches
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and this church
closed down like others,
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but after a while, they thought,
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well, we're being
unduly restricted,
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it might be an open-ended thing.
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And so they
decided to meet again
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and they've met with
much, much resistance,
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fines and threats,
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even of imprisonment.
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So it was a great
experience to go along
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and refreshing to see people
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in their thousands meeting there
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and exalting in the
privilege of knowing the Lord
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and seeking comfort
in a time of stress.
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And I thought that
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regardless of
their legal standing,
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that's a sign of
people glorying in the Lord
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in a time of trial.
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But back to your part,
it just reminded me again,
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both within our
church and other areas,
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the opportunities that
have been provided to you
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to be that bridging person
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and that person
in the right place
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at the right time,
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you know, you helped me on that,
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maybe it's sort of
an experimental outing
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to verify for
my own satisfaction
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that even in this time
when so many Christians
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and some other faiths, I'm sure,
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have sort of on command
gone back to their homes
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and shuttered the
windows and end of it.
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I can't speak to
their inner spiritual life,
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but as far as the
gathering together
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that we're told
to continue ceased,
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and I'm glad that
some people still seek
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that communion with
God in a public way,
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but how have you
found in this COVID era,
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your context, and
your ongoing activities?
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Well, speaking of this
church, White Memorial,
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it is a blessing to go there.
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They have it very well
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within the
requirements that are needed
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to keep us safe.
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Yes, I should have said that.
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They were
outside under a canopy...
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We were under a canopy.
With distance and so on.
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We were distant, masks were on,
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there were about maybe
60 people, 50, 60 people.
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There was a
good crowd of people.
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Might have been more than that,
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it was close to a hundred, yeah.
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Yeah. And it was very good.
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The pastor's amazing there.
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And when I called and
asked that you were coming,
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he didn't even hesitate.
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Of course, bring him, yes.
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He either knows me very
well or doesn't know me at all.
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No, I'm sure. I talked to him.
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He knows
religious liberty. Yes, yes.
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And I've been there
visiting a couple of times,
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and that's where, again,
the relationship building,
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not just in the
elected officials offices
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or in community,
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but when we build relationships
with our own churches,
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I mean, we're one
church, we're one people,
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we're one church family.
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We're not strangers
within our own churches.
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Well, and I'm bringing
this up for a reason because,
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you know, Liberty
magazine has existed
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in the Adventist Church
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for well over a hundred years
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and its predecessor
back to the very beginnings,
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toward the two-thirds of the way
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through the last century,
not the last, yes, the last.
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Yes, the last.
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But even at this late point,
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it's not a forgone thing
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that every Adventist pastor
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is favorable to
religious liberty work.
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There's a great
work of education
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that needs to be done.
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They think it's for
someone else's problem
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or worse and it's
just a legal issue
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that, which
they're not concerned.
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And so we have to educate them.
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So to find
because of your context,
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a very positive reception,
to me, that's gratifying.
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I've met quite a few pastors,
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visited quite a
few of our churches,
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and I've been able to be
blessed by new church family.
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They're amazing.
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And now because of COVID,
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I can't go into their
churches like I used to.
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And when they have a
ministry program vespers,
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or they have an event coming up,
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I'm always there to
also just show support,
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hello, I'm here.
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And I bring some
materials, Liberty magazine,
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and brochures and things to,
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to hand out and just show them,
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I'm here to support
you because we're family,
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we're a church family,
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and I don't believe
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we should be
strangers in our own churches.
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No.
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But now that there's COVID,
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we're very limited to
how many churches are open,
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but I'm still growing
church families via Zoom,
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via conference calls.
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It's not the same, but
going to White Memorial,
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it was a good
experience again to be out
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and worshiping with people.
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Yeah.
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And under the tents, I
mean, our pioneers did.
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That's how they started
out. They were under the tents.
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And it wasn't just
Adventist pioneers,
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that was an era
of the tent missions
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and the a state of I
think was the term they used,
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basically,
summer religious camps,
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wait for the whole summer,
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people would be camping out
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and gathering in a big tent.
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And it's nice
and it's comfortable.
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Revival sermons and so on.
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That was the whole context.
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There are some times
I've gone to White Memorial
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and under a shaded trees
there on the grass area there
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where people put out a blanket
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and families sit
down on the blanket
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which is wonderful.
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It's a wonderful,
comfortable feeling
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with singing songs and sermons,
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but we're all
safe and wearing masks.
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Yeah.
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No, it's wonderful,
and I was inspired by it.
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But tell me more, I
know you've got stories.
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Yes, I have lot of stories.
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What other experiences
have you been blessed
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to go through as
you've reached out
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to legislators,
community leaders,
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and community groups?
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Well, again,
with the non-profits,
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when I, I'll go back to,
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I mentioned human
trafficking on another show.
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I met them when I
received the flyer
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from L.A County supervisor
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and I attended
the trafficking event.
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I was again called
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into helping
the stories I heard,
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you know, the labor trafficking
and the other traffic.
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I mean, it's the
buying and selling
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of women and children.
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It's here in America.
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It's no longer a
third world country issue,
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it's here.
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But I met a community
leader who also lives in my city
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who started sponsoring
his own programs and events.
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So I partnered with him
and I learned through him.
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That's how I started
meeting other nonprofits
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that are all out
to help each other.
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And it really is a close,
it's a small world as they say,
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not to use that cliche,
but it is a small world.
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People that are out there
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doing what's
good and what's right.
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And when they see that
you're there consistently,
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and that's the key,
consistently show up.
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You start building
those relationships.
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I met a woman
there who was a survivor
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of being trafficked herself.
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She's the one that
had legislative ideas
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to help stop
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some of the
perpetrators and the...
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I guess for want
of a better term,
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but the purchasers of
these women and children.
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And because of her,
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when I showed her what I
did and gave her the NARLA card
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and said, we build
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relationships
with elected officials.
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She reached out to me, she says,
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"Patty, can you help
me with this legislature?
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Do you think we can meet
with someone in government
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we can present these ideas to?"
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I said, "Of course."
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And again, it was
the Congresswoman.
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And, we did have an
appointment for her,
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with her
legislative policy director,
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myself,
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the woman who
was the ex survivor
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we met in the office,
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then her policy director says,
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"You know, Congresswoman
has a heart for this.
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She wants to do something.
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Would you be willing to
sit face to face with her
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at a table, round
table discussion?"
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Yes, of course. I'm
thinking, really God.
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I mean, that's more
than I could have asked for,
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again, more than I
could have asked for.
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And this woman who now runs
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a nonprofit sheltering
victims of human trafficking,
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bringing them
to being survivors.
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She says, Pati really?
And I go, we said, yes.
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Less than a month later,
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we had a round table
with the Congresswoman
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discussing these
legislative ideas.
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This trafficking thing
you be on the inside of
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is a primarily people
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that are
brought into the country
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by sponsors that,
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hold it over them
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as they're in
indenture basically
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or is it Americans
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that one way or another
held hostage and traded?
00:10:40.60\00:10:45.47
In the labor trafficking,
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we've discovered
that there are people
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coming from other countries.
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And when they are here,
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when they arrive
either in the way
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of containers or on boats.
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I know of, this is
why I'm beating on it.
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Yes, they do come in that way,
and what the perpetrators do.
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And they never really allowed
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to pay off their
fees to bring them in.
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Exactly.
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And then the perpetrators
also greet them and meet them.
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And they pretend like
they're their best friend.
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We're going to help you.
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We'll get you a job,
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but we need to
see your paperwork.
00:11:12.43\00:11:13.77
And if they do
have... And they take it.
00:11:13.80\00:11:15.14
Exactly, if they
do have paperwork,
00:11:15.17\00:11:17.14
they hold on to that paperwork.
00:11:17.17\00:11:18.81
They are in the
hospitality roles,
00:11:18.84\00:11:20.94
in our hotels and
wealthy people's homes,
00:11:20.98\00:11:24.48
on the fishing boats
00:11:24.51\00:11:26.01
that we have out of our harbors,
00:11:26.05\00:11:28.32
they're really everywhere.
00:11:28.35\00:11:29.92
And then the other,
the sex trafficking, sadly,
00:11:29.95\00:11:33.69
there's a lot of
parents who are on drugs.
00:11:33.72\00:11:36.52
The perpetrators know
how to choose these people
00:11:36.56\00:11:39.49
that have
children or teenage girls.
00:11:39.53\00:11:42.60
And they say,
you know, for money,
00:11:42.63\00:11:44.83
I don't want to go into details,
00:11:44.87\00:11:46.43
but you could
imagine the hovers of what,
00:11:46.47\00:11:48.24
happened because a mother, a
single mother who's on drugs.
00:11:48.27\00:11:52.41
She's enticed by the
money and says, here's my...
00:11:52.44\00:11:56.38
Well, just a few days ago,
00:11:56.41\00:11:57.75
I was watching a program
00:11:57.78\00:11:59.11
about an FBI sting
program against drug dealers.
00:11:59.15\00:12:02.02
And the FBI agent
said he was amazed
00:12:02.05\00:12:05.02
because he was
portraying himself
00:12:05.05\00:12:06.69
as the drug dealer.
00:12:06.72\00:12:08.06
This woman couldn't come up
00:12:08.09\00:12:09.42
with the money
for the trade deal.
00:12:09.46\00:12:11.13
It was a big deal.
00:12:11.16\00:12:12.49
She offered her
infant child. Yes.
00:12:12.53\00:12:14.10
She would give the child.
00:12:14.13\00:12:16.00
And he says,
what sort of a person,
00:12:16.03\00:12:18.37
what sort of a situation
they would give away a child?
00:12:18.40\00:12:21.54
And we've seen it firsthand.
00:12:21.57\00:12:22.90
It was a group,
an interfaith group.
00:12:22.94\00:12:24.37
We would go out
on a Friday night.
00:12:24.41\00:12:25.74
We know an area in a city.
00:12:25.77\00:12:27.28
I won't say the city.
00:12:27.31\00:12:28.88
There's a motel
that's used, doesn't,
00:12:28.91\00:12:30.85
the name of the motel is
even, sign isn't even outside.
00:12:30.88\00:12:34.32
And there's an alleyway.
00:12:34.35\00:12:36.02
And we go out
there during the times
00:12:36.05\00:12:37.39
that we know the
perpetrators will be there
00:12:37.42\00:12:38.95
and purchasers are there
looking for what you sells.
00:12:38.99\00:12:42.72
It's a wicked
world. It's horrible.
00:12:42.76\00:12:44.09
But it's worth remembering
00:12:44.13\00:12:45.46
not to over-exaggerate
you know America,
00:12:45.49\00:12:50.10
it's a wonderful
country by and large,
00:12:50.13\00:12:52.23
but it's not, you
know, we are great.
00:12:52.27\00:12:54.57
And the rest of
the world is horrible.
00:12:54.60\00:12:55.94
It's here. It's here.
00:12:55.97\00:12:57.31
And there are deep
and deadly problems
00:12:57.34\00:12:58.67
that need to be addressed.
00:12:58.71\00:13:00.04
Stay with us.
00:13:00.08\00:13:01.41
We'll be back
after a short break
00:13:01.44\00:13:02.78
to continue this
discussion with Pati.
00:13:02.81\00:13:04.71