Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200486B
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00:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:02 before the break with guest Pati Lawrence, 00:06 we were going through your life journey. 00:08 Yes. 00:12 Looking back on it, you clearly see 00:14 God's leading in your journey, don't you? 00:17 I do, when I didn't think God was there, 00:18 He was always there. 00:20 And also, when I started with the Maharishi, 00:23 with the Hare Krishnas, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, 00:26 He didn't let me get so deep in that I got lost in it. 00:30 There was always this pull back, 00:31 there was always something. 00:32 Now back then I would say, "Oh, my conscience tell me." 00:35 Now I know it was the Holy Spirit leading me. 00:37 But I didn't know that then. 00:39 But I became so familiar with so many good people. 00:43 So I don't want to say anything critical about any of it 00:46 because there's really some good loving people. 00:48 I believe they may be lost, 00:50 they may be still searching for something possibly. 00:54 Ellen White wrote once that 00:56 people are looking wistfully to heaven. 00:58 Yes, and I was. 01:00 And that's the best reason to seek God. 01:05 And the Bible says, you know, 01:06 "You seek Him with all your heart 01:08 and you will find Him." 01:09 And yeah, He found me, I found Him. 01:10 And remember what Jesus said, 01:12 "Other sheep have I not of this pasture." 01:14 So we can't really be doctrinaire and rejecting 01:18 someone because they haven't seen things 01:20 the way we have. 01:22 And I think in a way that 01:24 suits you very well for religious liberty 01:26 and public affairs 01:28 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:29 which is not quite the same. 01:31 Public affairs is projecting our church 01:34 and its operation in a positive way 01:37 to the community. 01:38 And it's also welcoming 01:40 and being friendly with everyone, 01:42 mingling with everyone. 01:44 When I did leave, and now I was, 01:47 I embraced Islam, I called it 01:49 or became a Muslim for quite a few years. 01:51 So the two faiths that I held dear in my heart 01:54 for the longest, 01:55 first Adventism and then becoming a Muslim, 01:59 because the others I dabbled in, 02:01 I can't say I joined, Muslim I did, I did join. 02:04 But they were beautiful, wonderful families that I met, 02:07 very caring. 02:08 I saw the struggles after 9/11 02:10 and what they were going through. 02:11 I saw the hardships and the tears 02:13 and how the children would criticize the parents 02:16 for holding on and dressing in the garb. 02:19 And they didn't want that, they wanted to blend in 02:22 with modern society, so it's heartbreaking. 02:24 And, of course, you were dealing 02:26 with more than just faith system. 02:27 There's cultural dislocation. Exactly, exactly. 02:30 You know, I know a little bit about, 02:31 Australia is very close to the US. 02:33 But even there, 02:34 there are more bumps in the road 02:37 than you might realize in trying to acclimatized 02:40 to a different culture, different attitudes. 02:43 Then in about 19, not 19, about 2008, 02:47 I came back strongly to Adventism. 02:50 It was such a coming back. What happened? 02:52 What triggered that? 02:54 You know, I really don't know I could, 02:56 all along, I kept still in the back of my mind 02:59 or in my heart, 03:00 I felt a pull back to Adventism. 03:03 I think I was being stubborn. 03:05 I didn't just let go. 03:06 I didn't then just say to God, 03:10 "Just, let me just, where do you want me? 03:12 Where do you want me to be?" 03:13 Why am I, I'm studying Islam, I became, I'm Muslim. 03:19 I'm with beautiful people, beautiful families, 03:21 but yet, I don't feel fully in, I still felt a pull back. 03:26 And I think it's that surrendering, 03:28 or that being obedient to God that we hear a lot about. 03:31 I finally just relaxed 03:33 and He brought me back into Adventism. 03:37 And I know I will never leave. 03:40 This is my home, but I've also learned that 03:43 what I have learned through my journey 03:44 of these different faiths, I still hold dear to me 03:47 when I am out doing the public affairs, 03:50 the religious liberty. 03:52 When I hear of someone's pain 03:54 because of Muslim or atheist 03:56 or Jehovah Witness, I understand I just have this. 04:00 I can't explain it, 04:01 but my heart goes out to them and I feel for them. 04:03 I have empathy. 04:04 An empathy because you have traveled that road. 04:05 And I know there are good people, 04:07 not everyone's a good person, 04:08 but I look at them as a good person 04:10 for as long they think they are. 04:11 And even the ones that aren't could be. 04:13 It could be, they could 04:14 or prove me wrong if you're not, 04:15 but I see them as good people with a struggle. 04:18 And what you're saying too about your own struggles. 04:21 You know, remember Paul, Christ said to him, you know, 04:24 "Paul, why are you kicking against the pricks, 04:26 but you're resisting where I'm trying to take you?" 04:29 Exactly, exactly. And so it helped me. 04:32 I feel stronger being out in the public 04:35 and mingling with people, 04:36 because I don't judge anyone first by their faith 04:39 or their belief or their non belief. 04:41 I see them as we're one human family. 04:45 We're all, God created us all. 04:47 And that's how I see and I love everyone that way. 04:50 Now as I introduced you at the beginning, 04:53 you're a Religious Liberty Advocate activist. 04:56 Yes. What got you started in that? 05:00 Well, you know, I'd always now look, 05:02 I was always praying for something 05:04 from 10 years old praying, who do I worship? 05:05 What do I worship? 05:07 Well, now, I knew my Creator God, 05:09 I'd surrendered, I've given my life to Him, 05:12 not as an activity. 05:13 This is a life experience. So now I'm ready. 05:15 And I'm saying, "God, what is Your purpose for me?" 05:18 And I tried many ministries in the church. 05:19 I tried our health ministry, I tried women's ministry. 05:22 I tried. 05:23 When my daughter was growing up, 05:25 adventurers I thought, 05:26 well, maybe I'll, you know, be a Pathfinder leader someday. 05:29 Nothing. Again, nothing stuck with me. 05:31 Here I am on another journey trying to find 05:34 what is your purpose for me, God, what is it? 05:36 And obviously other people 05:38 might find those very fulfilling. 05:39 Yes. 05:40 And for me, it just didn't work. 05:42 It wasn't my niche. 05:43 Not your calling, not your spiritual gift. 05:46 It just, nothing. 05:48 It just didn't catch me, I guess. 05:50 Yeah, it didn't touch me. So what happened? 05:52 Then you read Liberty Magazine. 05:54 That's a good one. I do promote it. 05:57 I do promote it strongly. 06:00 One day in my church bulletin, there was a flyer and it said, 06:02 "Religious Liberty rally." 06:04 And I thought, I wonder what that's about. 06:06 I had no idea. September 9, 2017. 06:10 And I was determined to go, if I had to walk there alone, 06:14 I had to go, I had to go, whatever the cost. 06:17 I went, it was in Los Angeles about an hour or so away. 06:21 I didn't stay very long. 06:22 But I did have the opportunity 06:24 to listen to Dwayne Leslie speak. 06:28 And I was holding on to every word he said. 06:31 He was speaking about statistics around the world 06:33 and the horrors of what is happening 06:36 in other countries. 06:37 When I left that day, I left with a compelling. 06:41 I don't know how to explain it, 06:42 but a sense of urgency of, okay something has to be done. 06:45 I need to do something. 06:46 And I knew, I said, "God, this is the calling." 06:50 So that following week, it was that moment 06:54 where there was no doubt in my mind. 06:56 That was three years ago, little about three years ago, 06:59 so I get home and I thought 07:00 how do I reach Dwayne Leslie General Conference? 07:04 How am I gonna reach him? He's probably so busy. 07:08 There's probably, I couldn't probably 07:09 get a phone number and email. 07:11 But I did, I was able to find and I believe it was, 07:14 I'm not gonna say accident, providence. 07:16 I called the number. 07:18 And I don't know how, now I can't remember 07:20 how I found that number. 07:21 I googled, I was googling everything. 07:23 But it was to his assistant at the time. 07:25 And I sent her an email, 07:27 she forwarded my email to Dwayne Leslie, 07:29 this is how quickly this worked. 07:31 Okay, this is God. 07:32 And this is also the seriousness of our leaders 07:35 and how much I appreciate that they will listen 07:38 to someone they don't even know me. 07:40 Someone they don't even know. That's what we're paid for. 07:42 I'd like to think we're all responsive, 07:45 it's very gratifying that 07:46 you got through to Dwayne in this case. 07:48 I did. 07:50 And within a day or so he emails me back 07:52 and I had put on my email. 07:54 I've been at a rally, how do I get involved 07:56 and I put my address, West Coast 07:58 and now he is East Coast. 08:00 He emails me back within a day or two 08:01 and refers me to Alan Reinach, 08:03 Executive Director of Church State Council. 08:05 You know, Alan very well. 08:07 I believe that same day or next day, 08:09 Alan turns around, he refers me to Dennis Seaton. 08:12 End of the line. Perfect. 08:15 No, but that was more appropriate 08:17 to working directly with him. 08:18 That was exactly 08:20 and I believe it was that same day 08:22 I received an email from Dennis. 08:23 Now, you see how quickly this moved? 08:26 This is God and our leadership 08:28 taking their advocacy work also very seriously. 08:32 Now Dennis Seaton 08:33 is the associate for that union. 08:36 But he works in Sacramento with the legislators there so. 08:39 Yes, yes. 08:41 The story then took on certain inevitability. 08:43 Oh, this is amazing with Dennis, 08:45 and still to this day. 08:47 So Dennis emails me I believe that same day, 08:49 he gives me his cell phone number. 08:51 And I thought a cell phone number 08:52 from one of our leaders. 08:53 This is great. Okay, I called him. 08:56 Our first conversation, 08:59 Dennis gave me some principles that I still use today. 09:02 And you've probably heard the story 09:03 about his mother who never knew a stranger. 09:06 Yes. Yes. 09:07 She never knew a stranger. But the stranger's listening. 09:10 I'll just kind of do it in a nutshell. 09:12 But his mother would greet everyone 09:14 that walked into the church, whether they were homeless, 09:17 or just a stranger coming in, 09:19 she would greet them, she would take them, 09:21 she would sit with them. 09:23 She'd walk them through the bulletin of the church. 09:24 She knew so many people, and it led to baptisms, 09:27 because she didn't give them Bible studies. 09:29 She knew that wasn't her calling, 09:31 but she would pass the baton on to the next person. 09:34 So when Dennis who I thought, 09:35 "Well, okay, I think I could do that, 09:36 I could not know a stranger. 09:38 I can go up to people and greet them and say hello, 09:40 and just say, "Hi, my name's Patti. 09:42 How can I help you," whatever it might be. 09:44 Now, you've hit on the single thing 09:46 that I believe the church 09:48 will come alive if that happens. 09:49 You know, I travel around and when I speak, 09:51 they know who I am. 09:53 And there's a certain path of acceptance, 09:56 but when I arrived, they don't know who I am. 09:58 And so often just sidle into the Sabbath School class 10:01 or whatever, and I soon make judgments on this, 10:04 on the psychology of that church, 10:06 many churches, nobody will say a word to you. 10:08 They don't. 10:09 And then they have the moment get up and greet. 10:11 I don't like that. That's sort of a forced. 10:13 In fact, that's almost embarrassing, 10:15 because if it's not coming naturally, 10:16 it's an offence. 10:19 But if people were like that naturally 10:21 in a Christian compulsion reaching out 10:23 just to connect with someone, the church would have to grow. 10:26 And I love when he said his mother 10:28 did not know a stranger. 10:29 Yeah. 10:30 You know, they all knew her, she knew them. 10:32 And she continued on that, on that journey of her. 10:34 So you heard that story, you took it to heart... 10:36 I heard that story, I took it to heart. 10:38 That was gonna be your goal. Yes. 10:40 I thought, okay, I could do that. 10:41 And then he said, you know, 10:43 mingle in the community show up, 10:44 to show up around town. 10:45 And he's to say, 10:47 "Go into elected officials offices, 10:49 meet the staffers." 10:52 So this pretty much got you on the track you're on today. 10:55 And you found it very fulfilling, 10:57 of course, haven't you? 10:58 Yes. Yes. 11:00 So, you know, where do you think 11:01 this is leading you now? 11:02 Is this an ongoing compulsion, right? 11:04 It is. 11:05 I continue to meet nonprofit organizations, 11:08 community services, and more and more 11:10 elected officials all the time. 11:12 It's been very fulfilling, 11:14 and my world around me as grown. 11:16 I've grown to appreciate everyone 11:19 and all their work in the community. 11:25 So often, in preaching on Religious Liberty, 11:27 I've invoked the story of Paul on the Damascus Road. 11:32 And I've been on that road once or twice, 11:34 and I can imagine this vindictive persecutor 11:38 of the church, 11:40 being struck down by the glory of the Lord 11:41 and turned into 11:42 the most aggressive disciple out of time, 11:45 as he put it, a puzzle out of time 11:47 to spread the gospel. 11:49 Pati's life reminds me a little of that, 11:52 seeking in places that we might not imagine for her 11:55 to find spiritual security, 11:59 but ending up not just the Seventh-day Adventist, 12:03 but after reading some of our books 12:05 of Adventist history and the inspiring dynamic 12:08 of what we're trying to do, 12:10 reach out to the community, 12:13 change public views, she's bought that vision. 12:16 And I'm sure Pati and others like her since Paul 12:19 can say equally emphatically, 12:23 to whoever whether it's Caesar 12:25 or the governor or a Congresswoman, 12:28 I was not disobedient 12:30 to that heavenly vision. 12:35 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2020-12-27