Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider
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before the break
with guest Pati Lawrence,
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we were going
through your life journey.
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Yes.
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Looking back on
it, you clearly see
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God's leading in
your journey, don't you?
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I do, when I didn't
think God was there,
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He was always there.
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And also, when I
started with the Maharishi,
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with the Hare Krishnas,
Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons,
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He didn't let me get so
deep in that I got lost in it.
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There was always this pull back,
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there was always something.
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Now back then I would say,
"Oh, my conscience tell me."
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Now I know it was the
Holy Spirit leading me.
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But I didn't know that then.
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But I became so familiar
with so many good people.
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So I don't want to say anything
critical about any of it
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because there's really
some good loving people.
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I believe they may be lost,
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they may be still searching
for something possibly.
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Ellen White wrote once that
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people are looking
wistfully to heaven.
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Yes, and I was.
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And that's the
best reason to seek God.
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And the Bible says, you know,
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"You seek Him
with all your heart
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and you will find Him."
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And yeah, He
found me, I found Him.
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And remember what Jesus said,
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"Other sheep have I
not of this pasture."
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So we can't really be
doctrinaire and rejecting
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someone because
they haven't seen things
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the way we have.
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And I think in a way that
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suits you very well
for religious liberty
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and public affairs
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of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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which is not quite the same.
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Public affairs is
projecting our church
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and its
operation in a positive way
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to the community.
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And it's also welcoming
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and being
friendly with everyone,
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mingling with everyone.
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When I did leave, and now I was,
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I embraced Islam, I called it
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or became a Muslim
for quite a few years.
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So the two faiths that
I held dear in my heart
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for the longest,
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first Adventism and
then becoming a Muslim,
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because the others I dabbled in,
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I can't say I joined,
Muslim I did, I did join.
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But they were beautiful,
wonderful families that I met,
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very caring.
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I saw the struggles after 9/11
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and what they
were going through.
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I saw the
hardships and the tears
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and how the children
would criticize the parents
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for holding on and
dressing in the garb.
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And they didn't want
that, they wanted to blend in
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with modern society,
so it's heartbreaking.
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And, of course, you were dealing
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with more than
just faith system.
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There's cultural
dislocation. Exactly, exactly.
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You know, I know
a little bit about,
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Australia is
very close to the US.
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But even there,
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there are more bumps in the road
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than you might realize
in trying to acclimatized
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to a different
culture, different attitudes.
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Then in about 19,
not 19, about 2008,
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I came back
strongly to Adventism.
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It was such a
coming back. What happened?
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What triggered that?
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You know, I really
don't know I could,
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all along, I kept
still in the back of my mind
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or in my heart,
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I felt a pull back to Adventism.
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I think I was being stubborn.
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I didn't just let go.
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I didn't then just say to God,
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"Just, let me just,
where do you want me?
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Where do you want me to be?"
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Why am I, I'm studying
Islam, I became, I'm Muslim.
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I'm with beautiful
people, beautiful families,
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but yet, I don't feel fully
in, I still felt a pull back.
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And I think it's
that surrendering,
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or that being obedient to
God that we hear a lot about.
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I finally just relaxed
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and He brought me
back into Adventism.
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And I know I will never leave.
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This is my home, but
I've also learned that
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what I have
learned through my journey
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of these different
faiths, I still hold dear to me
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when I am out
doing the public affairs,
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the religious liberty.
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When I hear of someone's pain
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because of Muslim or atheist
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or Jehovah Witness, I
understand I just have this.
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I can't explain it,
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but my heart goes out to
them and I feel for them.
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I have empathy.
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An empathy because you
have traveled that road.
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And I know
there are good people,
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not everyone's a good person,
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but I look at
them as a good person
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for as long they think they are.
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And even the ones
that aren't could be.
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It could be, they could
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or prove me wrong if you're not,
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but I see them as good
people with a struggle.
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And what you're saying
too about your own struggles.
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You know, remember Paul,
Christ said to him, you know,
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"Paul, why are you
kicking against the pricks,
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but you're resisting
where I'm trying to take you?"
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Exactly, exactly.
And so it helped me.
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I feel stronger
being out in the public
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and mingling with people,
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because I don't judge
anyone first by their faith
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or their belief
or their non belief.
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I see them as
we're one human family.
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We're all, God created us all.
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And that's how I see and
I love everyone that way.
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Now as I introduced
you at the beginning,
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you're a Religious
Liberty Advocate activist.
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Yes. What got
you started in that?
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Well, you know,
I'd always now look,
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I was always
praying for something
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from 10 years old
praying, who do I worship?
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What do I worship?
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Well, now, I
knew my Creator God,
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I'd surrendered,
I've given my life to Him,
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not as an activity.
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This is a life
experience. So now I'm ready.
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And I'm saying, "God,
what is Your purpose for me?"
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And I tried many
ministries in the church.
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I tried our health ministry,
I tried women's ministry.
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I tried.
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When my daughter was growing up,
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adventurers I thought,
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well, maybe I'll, you know,
be a Pathfinder leader someday.
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Nothing. Again,
nothing stuck with me.
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Here I am on another
journey trying to find
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what is your purpose
for me, God, what is it?
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And obviously other people
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might find
those very fulfilling.
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Yes.
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And for me, it just didn't work.
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It wasn't my niche.
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Not your calling,
not your spiritual gift.
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It just, nothing.
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It just didn't
catch me, I guess.
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Yeah, it didn't
touch me. So what happened?
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Then you read Liberty Magazine.
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That's a good
one. I do promote it.
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I do promote it strongly.
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One day in my church bulletin,
there was a flyer and it said,
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"Religious Liberty rally."
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And I thought, I
wonder what that's about.
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I had no idea.
September 9, 2017.
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And I was determined to go,
if I had to walk there alone,
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I had to go, I had to
go, whatever the cost.
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I went, it was in Los Angeles
about an hour or so away.
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I didn't stay very long.
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But I did have the opportunity
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to listen to
Dwayne Leslie speak.
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And I was holding on
to every word he said.
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He was speaking about
statistics around the world
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and the horrors
of what is happening
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in other countries.
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When I left that day,
I left with a compelling.
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I don't know how to explain it,
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but a sense of urgency of,
okay something has to be done.
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I need to do something.
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And I knew, I said,
"God, this is the calling."
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So that following
week, it was that moment
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where there was
no doubt in my mind.
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That was three years ago,
little about three years ago,
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so I get home and I thought
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how do I reach Dwayne
Leslie General Conference?
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How am I gonna reach
him? He's probably so busy.
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There's probably,
I couldn't probably
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get a phone number and email.
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But I did, I was able to
find and I believe it was,
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I'm not gonna say
accident, providence.
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I called the number.
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And I don't know
how, now I can't remember
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how I found that number.
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I googled, I was
googling everything.
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But it was to his
assistant at the time.
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And I sent her an email,
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she forwarded my
email to Dwayne Leslie,
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this is how quickly this worked.
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Okay, this is God.
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And this is also the
seriousness of our leaders
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and how much I
appreciate that they will listen
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to someone they
don't even know me.
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Someone they don't even know.
That's what we're paid for.
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I'd like to think
we're all responsive,
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it's very gratifying that
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you got through to
Dwayne in this case.
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I did.
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And within a day or
so he emails me back
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and I had put on my email.
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I've been at a
rally, how do I get involved
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and I put my address, West Coast
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and now he is East Coast.
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He emails me back
within a day or two
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and refers me to Alan Reinach,
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Executive Director
of Church State Council.
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You know, Alan very well.
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I believe that
same day or next day,
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Alan turns around, he
refers me to Dennis Seaton.
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End of the line. Perfect.
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No, but that
was more appropriate
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to working directly with him.
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That was exactly
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and I believe it
was that same day
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I received an email from Dennis.
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Now, you see how
quickly this moved?
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This is God and our leadership
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taking their advocacy
work also very seriously.
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Now Dennis Seaton
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is the associate for that union.
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But he works in Sacramento
with the legislators there so.
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Yes, yes.
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The story then took
on certain inevitability.
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Oh, this is amazing with Dennis,
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and still to this day.
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So Dennis emails me I
believe that same day,
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he gives me his
cell phone number.
00:08:49.39\00:08:51.09
And I thought a
cell phone number
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from one of our leaders.
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This is great.
Okay, I called him.
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Our first conversation,
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Dennis gave me some principles
that I still use today.
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And you've
probably heard the story
00:09:02.30\00:09:03.64
about his mother who
never knew a stranger.
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Yes. Yes.
00:09:06.04\00:09:07.38
She never knew a stranger.
But the stranger's listening.
00:09:07.41\00:09:10.91
I'll just kind of
do it in a nutshell.
00:09:10.95\00:09:12.81
But his mother
would greet everyone
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that walked into the church,
whether they were homeless,
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or just a stranger coming in,
00:09:17.59\00:09:19.35
she would greet
them, she would take them,
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she would sit with them.
00:09:21.76\00:09:23.09
She'd walk them through
the bulletin of the church.
00:09:23.12\00:09:24.96
She knew so many
people, and it led to baptisms,
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because she didn't
give them Bible studies.
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She knew that
wasn't her calling,
00:09:29.53\00:09:31.13
but she would pass the
baton on to the next person.
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So when Dennis who I thought,
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"Well, okay, I
think I could do that,
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I could not know a stranger.
00:09:36.81\00:09:38.21
I can go up to people
and greet them and say hello,
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and just say,
"Hi, my name's Patti.
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How can I help you,"
whatever it might be.
00:09:42.64\00:09:44.75
Now, you've hit
on the single thing
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that I believe the church
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will come alive if that happens.
00:09:48.08\00:09:49.72
You know, I travel
around and when I speak,
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they know who I am.
00:09:51.85\00:09:53.19
And there's a
certain path of acceptance,
00:09:53.22\00:09:56.29
but when I arrived,
they don't know who I am.
00:09:56.32\00:09:58.26
And so often just sidle
into the Sabbath School class
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or whatever, and I
soon make judgments on this,
00:10:01.50\00:10:04.50
on the
psychology of that church,
00:10:04.53\00:10:06.10
many churches, nobody
will say a word to you.
00:10:06.13\00:10:08.10
They don't.
00:10:08.14\00:10:09.47
And then they have the
moment get up and greet.
00:10:09.50\00:10:11.51
I don't like that.
That's sort of a forced.
00:10:11.54\00:10:13.94
In fact, that's
almost embarrassing,
00:10:13.98\00:10:15.51
because if it's
not coming naturally,
00:10:15.54\00:10:16.91
it's an offence.
00:10:16.95\00:10:18.98
But if people were
like that naturally
00:10:19.01\00:10:21.35
in a Christian
compulsion reaching out
00:10:21.38\00:10:23.32
just to connect with someone,
the church would have to grow.
00:10:23.35\00:10:26.65
And I love when
he said his mother
00:10:26.69\00:10:28.02
did not know a stranger.
00:10:28.06\00:10:29.39
Yeah.
00:10:29.42\00:10:30.76
You know, they all
knew her, she knew them.
00:10:30.79\00:10:32.13
And she continued on
that, on that journey of her.
00:10:32.16\00:10:34.46
So you heard that
story, you took it to heart...
00:10:34.50\00:10:36.63
I heard that
story, I took it to heart.
00:10:36.67\00:10:38.23
That was gonna
be your goal. Yes.
00:10:38.27\00:10:40.30
I thought,
okay, I could do that.
00:10:40.34\00:10:41.67
And then he said, you know,
00:10:41.70\00:10:43.04
mingle in the community show up,
00:10:43.07\00:10:44.41
to show up around town.
00:10:44.44\00:10:45.77
And he's to say,
00:10:45.81\00:10:47.14
"Go into elected
officials offices,
00:10:47.18\00:10:49.71
meet the staffers."
00:10:49.74\00:10:51.98
So this pretty much got you
on the track you're on today.
00:10:52.01\00:10:55.72
And you found
it very fulfilling,
00:10:55.75\00:10:57.29
of course, haven't you?
00:10:57.32\00:10:58.65
Yes. Yes.
00:10:58.69\00:11:00.02
So, you know, where do you think
00:11:00.06\00:11:01.39
this is leading you now?
00:11:01.42\00:11:02.76
Is this an
ongoing compulsion, right?
00:11:02.79\00:11:04.29
It is.
00:11:04.33\00:11:05.66
I continue to meet
nonprofit organizations,
00:11:05.69\00:11:08.63
community
services, and more and more
00:11:08.66\00:11:10.47
elected officials all the time.
00:11:10.50\00:11:12.40
It's been very fulfilling,
00:11:12.43\00:11:14.27
and my world around me as grown.
00:11:14.30\00:11:16.50
I've grown to
appreciate everyone
00:11:16.54\00:11:19.91
and all their
work in the community.
00:11:19.94\00:11:25.51
So often, in
preaching on Religious Liberty,
00:11:25.55\00:11:27.82
I've invoked the story of
Paul on the Damascus Road.
00:11:27.85\00:11:32.45
And I've been on
that road once or twice,
00:11:32.49\00:11:34.76
and I can imagine
this vindictive persecutor
00:11:34.79\00:11:38.69
of the church,
00:11:38.73\00:11:40.06
being struck down by
the glory of the Lord
00:11:40.10\00:11:41.50
and turned into
00:11:41.53\00:11:42.86
the most aggressive
disciple out of time,
00:11:42.90\00:11:45.57
as he put it, a
puzzle out of time
00:11:45.60\00:11:47.77
to spread the gospel.
00:11:47.80\00:11:49.20
Pati's life reminds
me a little of that,
00:11:49.24\00:11:52.04
seeking in places that
we might not imagine for her
00:11:52.07\00:11:55.71
to find spiritual security,
00:11:55.74\00:11:59.51
but ending up not just
the Seventh-day Adventist,
00:11:59.55\00:12:03.18
but after
reading some of our books
00:12:03.22\00:12:05.12
of Adventist history
and the inspiring dynamic
00:12:05.15\00:12:08.96
of what we're trying to do,
00:12:08.99\00:12:10.79
reach out to the community,
00:12:10.83\00:12:13.03
change public views,
she's bought that vision.
00:12:13.06\00:12:16.83
And I'm sure Pati and
others like her since Paul
00:12:16.87\00:12:19.67
can say equally emphatically,
00:12:19.70\00:12:23.17
to whoever whether it's Caesar
00:12:23.20\00:12:25.47
or the governor
or a Congresswoman,
00:12:25.51\00:12:28.11
I was not disobedient
00:12:28.14\00:12:30.91
to that heavenly vision.
00:12:30.95\00:12:35.12
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:35.15\00:12:37.82