Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200475A
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00:29 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is your program 00:32 bringing you insights, news, views, 00:35 and an overall understanding of religious liberty 00:39 in the United States often, but also from around the world. 00:43 My name is Lincoln steed, Editor of Liberty magazine. 00:46 And my guest on the program is a young man 00:48 who has the same last name as me, 00:50 my son, Christopher Steed. 00:52 And thank you, Christopher, 00:54 for being on this program again. 00:56 Not very often, once or twice in your life, 00:58 you've been a part of it. 01:00 This will be, I think my third time. 01:02 Yeah, the first time you were just a little kid 01:04 I had you as a walk on cameo 01:06 and I remember afterwards I had two or three letters 01:09 from elderly ladies 01:11 and one of them says that dear boy 01:14 and that resonated with me. 01:17 But apart from good thoughts that you have, 01:20 I think it's great to have a young person 01:23 talking about religious liberty. 01:24 You know, I'm a teenager inside still 01:26 but things have moved on unknown to me, 01:29 and a lot of us working with religious liberty here 01:32 are not necessarily senior citizens, 01:34 but middle-aged people. 01:37 So we need to know what young people think. 01:41 I want to talk on this program a bit about 01:44 religious liberty around the world. 01:48 But, you know, let's talk about an example 01:50 that you were sharing before. 01:53 We need to somehow disarm people 01:57 because a lot of people have prejudice 01:59 either against our particular version 02:01 of Christianity 02:02 because, and prejudice by 02:05 and large comes from a lack of knowledge. 02:07 So it's a prejudgment. That's what prejudice means. 02:11 But beyond that, 02:13 different religions have prejudice. 02:15 And again, most people that are nominally part 02:18 of the Buddhism or Islam or Christianity, 02:22 they know almost nothing, 02:24 first of all about their own religion 02:26 and even less about another, so it's very difficult. 02:30 Tell me about a situation 02:31 where you were helping with the local church 02:35 and going door-to-door 02:37 and you've met quite well muscled prejudice. 02:39 What happened? 02:41 Well, we were doing a food pantry for shut-ins. 02:44 So people who don't normally come to church, 02:48 mostly elderly people, 02:50 who can't drive, who have limited mobility, 02:53 and I go to one of the person's doors, 02:55 I knocked on the door, 02:57 I was about to turn around and leave 02:59 when I hear the door just get. 03:01 I thought the door got ripped off his hinges. 03:03 And I see this, 03:04 he was about 6'5", 6'6" massive bodybuilder guy 03:10 just standing there glaring down at me 03:12 in the roughest, roughest tone he had. 03:15 He goes, "What are you doing at my door?" 03:19 I was 15-16 years old. I'm just... 03:24 And so I gained confidence. 03:27 I say, "I'm here delivering food." 03:29 For shut-ins. For shut-ins. 03:31 And he looks at me, gives me a look. 03:34 He says, "What organization?" 03:36 I said, "I'm with the Seventh-day 03:37 Adventist Church." 03:38 "Oh, come on in," just like that he changed. 03:40 And you hear his mother 03:42 saying something behind the scenes. 03:44 His mother calls, "Tye, who's at the door?" 03:48 And just this very, very small voice in the back. 03:52 It was like almost like his conscience 03:54 that I could hear. 03:55 And I say I'm from her church. We go to church together. 04:00 She used to come to church, 04:01 but we haven't seen her for a while. 04:02 And we got a letter or a call from her saying that 04:06 she needs some help with food. 04:08 So we're bringing food from our church. 04:10 He said, "Oh, I thought the bag, 04:11 I thought you were going to sell me something 04:13 or the other 04:14 and I was just not having it today." 04:16 And I was like, "Well, here I am." 04:19 So almost the implication of violent oppositions 04:23 turned into great friendliness 04:24 when he understood what was going on. 04:26 And that's usually the key. 04:27 I can remember many years ago, 04:30 well, not many, several years ago now. 04:33 We were in Israel on a tour, 3ABN tour actually to Israel. 04:38 With Jim Gilley. 04:39 With Jim Gilley, who was heading up 3ABN 04:42 at that time, 04:43 and, but one scene that stuck in my mind, 04:46 it was wonderful. 04:47 We went to the so-called Wailing Wall. 04:50 The Jews don't call it the Wailing Wall. 04:52 It's the Western Wall. 04:53 Foundations basically that they dug down 04:56 after the Six-Day War, war and uncovered 04:59 and it's a real site of pilgrimage and prayers 05:04 and we were there Friday night, remember at sunset? 05:06 I do. 05:08 It was a wonderful time, they blew the shofar, 05:12 the ram's horn, 05:15 it was an elemental sort of feeling 05:16 and the excitement was palpable. 05:18 And you know, a lot of, 05:21 even Adventists who understand the Old Testament 05:23 more than many Christians, 05:27 you know, we don't always understand 05:29 Jewish sensibilities 05:31 and many Christians have great troubles, right? 05:34 You've been to Germany and I think you picked up there 05:37 some of the history with the Nazis 05:39 and that where they just turned on the Jews, right? 05:42 That's a horrific case. 05:45 So I thought it was wonderful there, 05:47 we were at that exciting moment close of or opening of Sabbath, 05:52 and spontaneously 05:56 the young Israeli men started dancing in a circle. 05:59 Remember, you joined in? 06:01 They handed out this little pamphlet about 06:06 the size of a iPhone. 06:08 And it had the Hebrew song. 06:12 And then underneath it had it in English. 06:14 Well, in... 06:17 I wouldn't say English, it was Hebrew, 06:19 but in a way I could read it. 06:22 And so I started singing along with them. 06:24 - And... - Well and it was... 06:26 It was like a cyclone, it was just like a tornado 06:28 just growing bigger and bigger and... 06:31 They were so happy and exalted. 06:34 And it was a little bit of a mixture, 06:36 to be honest of Jewish national identity 06:40 and Jewish faith. 06:42 But it was very spiritual 06:43 because this was the beginning of the Sabbath, 06:45 and how you joined in and I thought, 06:46 man, he looked so at home there and they were, 06:49 they accepted you fully 06:50 and you were wearing a little yarmulke... 06:51 I had skull cap. 06:53 That Jim Gilley had given you 06:54 and because we don't wear a yarmulke, 06:55 but it's very biblical. 06:57 I mean, it talks about covering your head 06:58 when you pray and so on. 06:59 So it's a sign of prayer respect, 07:02 but I thought that was a wonderful moment 07:04 of a spiritual affinity not, 07:08 you know, he might not know much about it. 07:10 But you know, I grew up where we were scared silly 07:12 of an ecumenical syncretism. 07:15 Syncretism is a word where you, you come together when you, 07:19 you just negate 07:20 and don't care about deeps doctrinal 07:23 or spiritual differences. 07:24 They're important. 07:26 You can't just give them away and say, 07:27 "We're fine, you know, God loves us. 07:28 I love you." It's not that simple. 07:30 But as far as the brotherhood of men 07:32 and an understanding 07:34 of someone else's genuine seeking of God 07:37 that should be respected. 07:39 And we have that in common often. 07:41 And I thought that was a wonderful moment. 07:43 And I'm positive 07:45 that's something you'll remember forever, right? 07:46 Well, one thing I clearly remember is 07:49 I was, I didn't, 07:51 at first I didn't want to jump in, but you know... 07:54 I remember pushing you. 07:55 You had to push me into the crowd. 07:57 But once I got in, the guy that was that, 08:00 actually he pushed, 08:02 my dad pushed me. 08:03 And one of the guys 08:04 wraps his arm around me, pulls me in, 08:06 and I just felt these two strong arms on me 08:09 and I just felt the electricity. 08:12 It was almost like, 08:16 just spinning in that circle just singing 08:19 was just phenomenal and just awe... 08:23 It's eye opening to me on how, 08:26 you know, how these people have been 08:28 through pretty much hell and torture 08:31 through Egypt, 08:33 through the Hitler and the Nazis, 08:36 even in more modern times the persecution they have. 08:39 Well, one thing that I mentioned recently, 08:41 you might not know about, 08:42 but it might have in history in the Middle Ages 08:45 when the plague fell. 08:47 And you know, we're in a little plague now 08:49 with the COVID. 08:51 People started looking for culprits 08:53 and the Jews were dying too, but maybe not as much 08:56 because certain health regulations 08:57 in the Old Testament 08:59 would clearly protect you a bit. 09:00 So they started saying 09:02 that Jews were poisoning the world 09:03 and causing the plague. 09:04 And in one city, 09:08 I think it was in France, 09:10 3,000 Jews were burned alive. 09:13 So yes, they've often been picked upon, 09:15 because their faith is very visible. 09:19 It was a statement in the ancient Romans, 09:22 they said no other group were as dismissive 09:24 of the ancient gods as the Jews. 09:27 Well, that's sort of true, 09:28 but it's pretty good negative spin, 09:30 they were committed to their God. 09:33 Yeah, so that was an experience. 09:34 So what I want to bring out 09:37 and you know, sort of a semi travelogue, 09:39 but the world 09:40 is an interesting array of people 09:42 reaching in their own way to God 09:44 and I don't think they're all equal. 09:46 But I think equally 09:47 all human beings have an inclination 09:50 to seek the divine and God planted it within us. 09:53 And it's a privilege of us 09:56 to share a biblical clarity on that, isn't it? 10:00 It is. 10:01 And I know what impressed you or anybody that goes to Israel, 10:06 and even to Turkey in places 10:09 that Paul traveled on his tours. 10:12 You know you see how vitally important 10:15 the origin of Christianity was 10:17 and the battles they went through 10:19 and in many ways 10:20 they're still the battles of today. 10:23 What did you think when we went to Turkey 10:25 which I think I've explained it to you, 10:28 but maybe even some of our viewers 10:29 don't realize, 10:31 Turkey today is a overwhelming majority 10:34 Islamic State, 10:36 it's not a an Islamic Republic. 10:39 It's a democracy of sorts. 10:42 After Kemal Ataturk 10:43 following World War 1 took over, 10:47 he westernized it 10:48 and public elements of Islam would diminish. 10:52 They're not allowed to wear the head coverings 10:54 and things like that 10:55 because they wanted to appear Western, 10:56 but it's a deeply Islamic country, 10:58 but most people don't realize 10:59 it was the seed of Christianity. 11:02 When the Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity, 11:05 he moved the capital of the Roman Empire 11:07 to Constantinople. 11:08 It was the first Christian city in the world. 11:12 And remember going to Hagia Sophia Museum now 11:15 after being converted to a mosque, 11:16 but it was the original structure 11:20 of Christianity, it predates St. Peters. 11:23 St. Peters is the Roman Catholic Church. 11:26 But Hagia Sophia was the first major cathedral 11:30 of Christianity. 11:33 What did you think about that, getting a sense of the roots 11:35 that goes back about 1,500 years? 11:40 Well, I remember walking in and just looking straight up 11:45 and all I saw was a ginormous dome, 11:49 and the paintings 11:50 and everything that were on there, 11:52 the architecture and everything was beautiful. 11:54 But being in the birthplace of... 11:59 Well, I won't say the birthplace. 12:01 In some ways, it's the political birthplace 12:03 because Constantine skewed Christianity a bit, 12:05 but it was at that time it was purer than it became 12:09 and let's make your comment about... 12:13 Being at the... At origin point. 12:14 Political birthplace of Christianity 12:19 was just, 12:22 it brought a whole new light on Christianity 12:26 that I had not seen before. 12:28 In a country that has now been, I wouldn't say overtaken, 12:33 but that is now majority Muslim 12:37 and Sikh faith that are there. 12:40 Well, they're not Sikhs. It's... 12:43 There are some Christians still. 12:45 This is the Coptic Christians in that general area, 12:49 but they're mostly Muslims. 12:52 And seeing how the Muslim and Christian though for them, 12:57 there are pretty much there as one, 13:02 you see Christians and Muslims hanging out. 13:05 It's interesting even though we get that image 13:08 in post 9/11 in the US, 13:10 there's not a lot of direct confrontation 13:13 in Turkey between religious faiths. 13:15 Now in Egypt, which we didn't go to, 13:19 the Arab Spring was kicked off with direct persecution 13:22 and attacks on Christians by Muslims. 13:26 But what you're getting at 13:27 I've tried to say on this program before, 13:32 it's worth remembering that the Middle East as a whole 13:34 was the birthplace of Christianity. 13:37 And today, the Middle East as a whole is Islam. 13:41 There was a massive displacement 13:43 of one religion by another and not always peacefully. 13:46 And now in this modern era, 13:49 most particularly since the Arab Spring, 13:52 what we're really seeing 13:53 is the final expulsion of Christianity 13:56 from the Middle East. 13:57 That is a massive moment. 14:00 And there's a lot of persecution involved, 14:02 but a lot of it is subtle. 14:03 It's marginalization of people of Christian faith, 14:07 which is not good, is it? 14:09 You know, you're talking about, 14:11 you're accepting and being integrated socially, 14:14 in Israel into their sort of faith, 14:19 culture, that's fine, you know, 14:21 and that doesn't lead to wars and fighting. 14:23 That's, I think God smiles upon that. 14:26 That's an openness. 14:29 But it is worth remembering that the Middle East 14:32 is generally is the scene of conflict at the moment. 14:37 Where else do you remember? 14:39 You remember we went then to Asia, 14:42 to Southeast Asia to Bangkok? 14:45 You remember worshiping on Sabbath there? 14:48 Sort of. 14:50 We went to a church 14:52 near the Bangkok Adventist Hospital. 14:54 Remember we walked from? That's right. 14:56 Now did you feel any sense of threat, 15:00 it was a difficult moment 15:04 to worship in that country? 15:05 None at all. Absolutely none. 15:08 So that was a plus experience. We need to take a break. 15:10 We'll be back. 15:12 Stay with us, 15:13 talk a little bit about a world of religious practice 15:16 and what that means 15:18 for a person of Christian faith. 15:19 How do you relate to it? Stay with us. |
Revised 2020-09-04