Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200471B
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00:01 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:03 This has been an interesting discussion 00:06 with guest, Alden Ho. 00:09 We've been looking at the global situation, 00:12 obviously with us, not a subtext, 00:14 but a background view of religious liberty, 00:16 how has it affected the worldwide, 00:18 the whole world is shaking on its axis 00:20 socially and even politically. 00:24 And your view is that 00:25 this is the beginning of trouble, 00:26 it's not the end of it. 00:28 It is not just by the pandemic. 00:30 It's not just political, 00:31 but it's also in the natural sense 00:34 with all these hurricanes and cyclones. 00:37 Now, you know, first example 00:39 that people haven't always drawn 00:41 the things, we know in China 00:44 that well under the three self-movement 00:46 of government controls their religious activity, 00:49 the certain organization and apparent liberalization. 00:52 The home church movement in China 00:55 is under increasing oversight, 00:58 and even attacked by the government 01:00 because it's illegal religious activity. 01:03 And that's the key in China. 01:04 I don't think they particularly care 01:07 to analyze Christianity versus any other religion, 01:10 any other ism. 01:12 It's not the right one. 01:13 Or other than the Communist Party, 01:15 and that's why they persecute 01:16 the Falun Gong movement so rigorously, 01:19 it's barely, in fact, 01:21 it never claimed to be a religion. 01:22 It's sort of just a health viewpoint 01:26 and a slight veneer of spirituality. 01:29 But it clubs together 01:31 and the Chinese government was troubled to see 01:33 too many millions of people thinking alike 01:36 on something different from communism, 01:37 and they've tried to wipe it out. 01:40 And they've imprisoned them by the hundreds of thousands, 01:43 harvested their organs, 01:44 all sorts of unspeakable things. 01:47 So, China is been moving against Falun Gong, 01:51 it's been an eye, every time I get on Washington, 01:53 I see their representatives 01:55 demonstrating in front of the White House 01:57 or other events on the Ellipse there... 02:01 So, it's an ongoing problem. 02:02 They are persecuting the Uyghur Muslims. 02:06 I think for nothing 02:08 other than that that's connected 02:09 with a geographic distinction from, 02:14 you know, the massive Chinese population, 02:17 that they have illusions of autonomy, 02:21 but they're not 02:22 a particularly pathetic political threat to China, 02:24 but they persecuted them deeply. 02:26 And we saw it at Wuhan, 02:30 incredibly rigorous restrictions 02:33 on individual freedoms. 02:34 So, I think China is, 02:36 is at least at the very least 02:39 using this new health control measure 02:42 to further its ongoing restrictions 02:44 of religious and other minorities. 02:46 Since the US has moved a lot of production stuff 02:49 out into China. 02:51 China's GNP, 02:53 I guess you could say, has just boomed. 02:56 I mean, you have 02:57 very, very wealthy young people today. 02:59 So, for them, I mean, they don't realize 03:03 that all these things are just starting to brew. 03:06 And once again brewing. 03:10 Well, I know you're Asian and I could guess, 03:12 is your background from some Chinese? 03:15 I'm Chinese. Yeah, I'm guessing. 03:18 So, I'm sure you have some 03:21 more than some thoughts on that. 03:23 But tell me if I'm wrong, 03:24 my study of Chinese history 03:27 is it's not been an expansionist country. 03:29 China's very self-absorbed. 03:32 And further back you go in history, 03:34 the more they had which other countries have 03:36 but with a vengeance in China 03:37 that they are the Middle Kingdom 03:39 and the rest of the world is barbarians and whatever. 03:42 I don't see China is even in this late point, 03:45 very expansionist. 03:47 What they are 03:48 is aggressively improving their lot 03:54 and they're trading empire without equal. 03:57 Everywhere 03:59 I've been in the world in my career, 04:00 in this job, 04:02 like in East Timor, for example, 04:03 the ends of the world, 04:05 little tiny, newly independent country 04:08 of 300,000 people 04:10 touched a little bit above Australia 04:12 particularly I can't get there from Australia, 04:15 used to be part of Indonesia 04:16 until Civil War broke out in Australia and New Zealand, 04:21 help broken of their independence, 04:23 the cost of 04:25 I think about 100,000 people were killed. 04:27 When I flew in there 04:29 I'd say half the plane full of Chinese businessmen, 04:32 we get there we find that the Government House, 04:36 sorry, the President's palace built by China given to them, 04:40 the government assembly given by China, 04:43 the port built by China, they own the mining, 04:45 built the railroad. 04:47 So, they've got good, good friendship 04:49 with the government 04:51 and the goods 04:52 are being funneled back to China. 04:54 Nothing wrong with that, but that's the method. 04:56 That is how they're doing it. 04:57 Absolutely. 04:59 So, in that sense, yes. 05:00 They're a threat to US dominance of the world, 05:05 but not in the way 05:06 that the US normally perceives threat, 05:08 they're just outdoing us. 05:09 I was, a few months ago I was in Belize, 05:12 same thing over there. 05:13 When you look at how the, the actual marketplace, 05:18 all the grocery stores, and the variety stores, 05:22 I guess you could say were all owned by Chinese. 05:25 You had Mennonites 05:26 that owned the electrical market. 05:27 You had another group of people 05:29 that had the furniture market, but they're all there. 05:32 And I mean, they speak the language. 05:36 They're the very much Asians have the, 05:39 the entrepreneurial mindset. 05:41 I can't say that they're full of pride, 05:43 because every country has its own pride. 05:45 But yet, 05:47 I even heard that the dollar is shifting now 05:50 where it's no longer the trade value, 05:52 and it's going to the Yen. 05:55 Now that's the biggest story. 05:56 That's the great geopolitical threat 05:59 but, but my point is the world is changing 06:03 and there's a new trading empire rising, 06:06 which short of nuclear annihilation, 06:10 I don't think the US or any other power can stop. 06:13 And the US itself rose in somewhat unexpected ways, 06:17 the fix was in with World War II, 06:19 US won't disappear. 06:21 But these are creating stresses 06:23 that the different countries are going to deal 06:28 with in different ways. 06:31 And religion is always the subtext to it 06:34 that that I know. 06:35 You know, it's interesting. 06:36 There was a saying many years ago 06:38 when I used to travel that 06:40 because the US was so strong that when the US sneezes, 06:44 the rest of the world catches a cold. 06:46 But I think today, 06:48 it's not as strong as it used to be 06:51 because when you look at, for example, 06:54 amidst the COVID stuff right now, 06:56 it's not the US that sneezes 06:58 the US basically shut off all the ports. 07:01 Now the US is hurting 07:02 because all the products that we were getting from China 07:06 is not coming into port. 07:09 And so, the economy hurts too. 07:11 Well, we're living through an interesting period 07:13 and I remember 07:16 the western civilization changed 07:20 once the trade routes were opened, 07:22 remember Columbus, 07:24 Vasco da Gama and all these guys, 07:25 they were trying to find a way to bring stuff from China, 07:30 other than across the land. 07:31 Yeah. 07:33 And it was, it was Chinese spices 07:35 that made the difference 07:36 between stinky royal quartz 07:39 and, you know, 07:41 at least they puffed part of that. 07:42 I remember there was a classic statement 07:44 from one of the royalty of England 07:46 back in the Middle Ages. 07:47 They said they took a bath once a year 07:49 whether they needed it or not. 07:50 Mercy, wow. 07:53 They didn't have plumbing, that was part of the reason. 07:56 And so, you know, China is an ancient civilization, 07:59 but that's not really the point here, 08:01 the point is that there's a shift 08:02 and the geopolitical realities are changing, 08:07 I don't think the US will disappear 08:09 with all the nuclear weapons out there, 08:11 you know, like Russia which has faded a bit. 08:13 We still take them very seriously 08:15 because they can cause a lot of harm, 08:17 but the world is shifting, 08:19 and on this program it's my job to remind people 08:22 that religion as in the soul of a human being, 08:26 it's the most important thing at play. 08:29 Religion cannot be unaffected by this changing dynamic. 08:33 It has to stand firm. Yeah. 08:35 And, you know, China is for mostly for worse, 08:39 I was gonna say, for better or worse 08:40 has spent a lot of effort 08:42 restricting religious dissidents 08:45 or even just religious sensibility 08:47 and in our reaction to their rise to power, 08:50 it's possible 08:51 that we will in a self-protective way 08:53 be turning around and restricting 08:55 free religious thought within the West. 08:58 Sure. 09:00 So, it's an interesting period. 09:01 So, you let's say, 09:05 you've been to a few different countries, 09:06 I've been to a few, 09:07 where do we see this going now with a global, 09:11 you know, there was a period 09:12 of about 100, 150 years ago 09:14 a global missions for Christianity 09:16 particularly exploded. 09:18 You think we'll see another repeat of that? 09:20 Or is it coming in? 09:22 You know, we were told 09:24 by one of the founders 09:26 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 09:28 Mrs. Ellen White. 09:30 She said that what we don't do in times of prosperity, 09:33 we'll have to do during very difficult times, 09:35 and I believe the Bible does tell us 09:38 that this message must go out. 09:40 This is the Great Commission of Matthew Chapter 28. 09:42 Matthew 24 says, 09:44 this gospel has to be preached in all the world. 09:47 It's got to go to all the kingdoms. 09:48 The problem is, if we're not doing it now, 09:52 when we have the freedoms, 09:54 then we're certainly going to have to do it 09:55 during very difficult times. 09:57 I believe that the door will slowly close. 10:01 So, there we'll have, 10:02 there will have to be sneaky ways 10:04 of going out in newness. 10:05 Well, sneaky but not innovative like the... 10:11 I'm trying to think of the Protestants 10:13 that went door to door in Switzerland 10:15 and other places, they were salesmen. 10:17 Yeah. 10:19 In the post Reformation era, 10:21 some of them undercover of selling 10:24 basically tinkerers, and so on, 10:25 selling stuff door to door 10:27 they were then sharing the Bible 10:28 and selling God's Word. 10:30 I remember when I was in Cambodia, 10:32 I met a pastor from Vietnam. 10:36 And as I was talking to him, 10:38 he was sharing with me the difficulties 10:40 that they have to take everything underground now, 10:43 they can't do it on the surface 10:44 because everybody's watching them. 10:46 And I said to him, 10:48 well, I will be praying for you. 10:50 In fact, I would like to pray 10:51 that you will have the freedoms 10:52 to be able to share that and he says, please, please, 10:55 don't, don't pray for that 10:57 because the work is spreading faster underground. 11:01 You and I think alike, 11:02 I've seen experientially 11:04 within the Adventist Church in particular. 11:05 But reading 11:07 Christian church history in general, 11:08 it was turned in times of difficulty, 11:10 even persecution that it went quicker. 11:12 And that's the... 11:13 For us today this pastor, it was very interesting. 11:16 This pastor said, 11:17 the challenges really are that it's on the surface, 11:21 but it was growing so much faster 11:24 when it was underground. 11:25 So, he says, please, whatever you do, 11:27 don't pray for the religious freedom 11:30 that we have 11:31 or religious freedom 11:32 for the work to be able to carry out. 11:34 Pray that the work will continue underground 11:37 because as it continues underground, 11:39 it will spread so much faster than above ground. 11:45 In a document that we will likely hear 11:48 a lot more of on the environment, 11:51 Pope Francis speaks of the world 11:54 as our sister who is hurt, wounded and dying. 11:58 He may have a personal agenda to that, 12:00 but there's no question that in our moral 12:04 as well as a situational sense the world is hurt. 12:08 And when you talk about religious liberty, 12:10 it's obvious that in many countries 12:12 people are suffering for their faith, 12:14 whether it's the Uyghurs in China, 12:17 in concentration camps, 12:19 as involuntary organ donors being tortured and killed 12:23 in large numbers. 12:25 Religious liberty is the source of a lot of that hurt. 12:30 Even in the United States, 12:32 many people that believe differently 12:34 than the socially accepted religious norm 12:37 are being socially hurt. 12:40 We need to recognize that we're all hurt 12:43 but we can all be healers, 12:45 not just those that demonstrate against police abuses, 12:49 we need to demonstrate against abuses of conscience 12:53 all around the world. 12:55 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2020-07-30