Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200470A
|
00:28 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is your program, 00:32 designed to bring you news, views, information, 00:36 and understanding on religious liberty events 00:39 of our day in the world 00:41 and often in the United States in particular. 00:43 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:47 and my guest on the program is Pastor Alden Ho. 00:50 A little bit younger than me, 00:53 which is important for this program 00:54 because I want to talk about youth and religious liberty. 00:58 Your background is... 01:01 bit like mine, you're a world... 01:03 A man of the world, 01:06 born in Singapore, lived in Canada, 01:08 and now the United States. 01:09 Be careful how you define men of the world. 01:11 And you're in Texas and for Texans 01:13 that is the United States. 01:14 Yeah, exactly. The lone star. 01:17 Yeah. 01:18 You know, I've been working 01:20 with Liberty Magazine for two decades now. 01:23 Didn't seem long. 01:25 And I've lived a little longer than that. 01:28 I've been concerned 01:29 with religious liberty my whole life. 01:32 I've been inspired 01:34 in our Seventh-day Adventist Church, 01:35 the Editor of the Liberty precursor 01:38 was Alonzo T. Jones. 01:39 He was in his 20s when he began editing, 01:43 just mustered out of the military, 01:44 full of energy and enthusiasm. 01:48 And within a few years, 01:50 he got involved with fighting back 01:52 a national Sunday law in the US. 01:56 But I've noticed in recent years 02:00 as during the time I've been editing Liberty, 02:02 that it's the older people that support 02:04 what we're doing. 02:05 And, you know, thank you, older people. 02:08 Maybe my peers, I don't know. I don't feel that old. 02:11 But I'm older than they ever thought I'd be. 02:13 But, you know, older people 02:14 and it's not unique to religious liberty, 02:16 most church and indeed, 02:19 philanthropic organizations, 02:21 it's the older people that both are more thoughtful 02:24 and I think have the means and they've stored up, 02:26 they give them money. 02:28 But with religious liberty, 02:30 we need to involve young people, 02:32 used to be more young people. 02:34 How can we get young people involved 02:36 and why young people is involved 02:39 with defending religious liberties 02:41 as we would wish? 02:43 I think it's a systematic problem. 02:45 And it has to do... 02:47 It's not just religious liberty 02:48 that we need to get young people involved in. 02:51 It's also the fact that in church, 02:55 in the worship service, 02:57 in their overall daily commitment 03:00 they need to get deeper in that. 03:02 But Satan's working really hard in these last days. 03:07 And he's got them so preoccupied 03:10 with many different things around that 03:13 their focus is not really on God 03:16 as it should be. 03:17 But many of them are coming around, you know. 03:20 Well, there's always exceptions to any generalization and yes, 03:23 but in the main there is this disconnect. 03:27 There is. 03:28 In the Seventh-day Adventist church, 03:30 it's very real. 03:31 But, you know, I can read Roman Catholic Church, 03:34 the largest Christian denomination, 03:36 you go to a Cathedral for mass, you know, 03:42 the sprinkling old people almost guaranteed. 03:45 You know, a lot many. 03:46 I find it interesting that Mrs. White wrote one time 03:49 and she said that we need an army. 03:52 Ellen White was the visionary, 03:54 co-founder of Seventh-day Adventist Church 03:56 in the mid 1800s. 03:58 And she wrote and she says that 03:59 we need an army of young people. 04:01 And it's not just an army of young people 04:03 because the next sentence is "Rightly trained." 04:05 Rightly trained, yeah. 04:06 And that's where we're at. 04:08 And I'm wondering, 04:09 and I stood there in Munich, right, 04:12 not in Munich, in Nuremberg, 04:13 right where that place was that 04:15 Hitler was at where he had his army of young people. 04:18 Well, he did understand 04:20 how to involve the young people, 04:22 the Hitler Youth Movement preceded World War II, 04:26 a couple of decades almost. 04:27 Yeah. 04:29 But they were committed to that. 04:30 So how do we get young people 04:31 today committed to the Word of God, 04:33 committed to religious liberty? 04:36 I guess, in that sense, 04:38 if there's a young person watching today, 04:40 they may be defined for a young person 04:43 so that they understand because they probably are like 04:45 "Religious liberty, what does that mean? 04:47 Does that mean I have liberty to be 04:51 whatever religion I want?" 04:52 How would you define religious liberty 04:55 in a very layman's terminology for a young person today? 05:00 Well, I take home meetings on it. 05:03 Used two syllabus words. 05:05 Yeah, yeah. I mean, syllable words. 05:07 Well, first of all and you came close to it, 05:09 something that most people 05:10 don't understand religious liberty 05:12 is what was granted in Eden. 05:14 It's the right, even the obligation 05:17 as a creature of God to make our own choice 05:20 about following God or not following God. 05:24 And this is where some people bail out on religious liberty 05:27 as even Liberty Magazine advances it. 05:31 I need to be able to defend your right to the death 05:35 if necessary to believe whatever you want 05:38 or disbelieve whatever you want. 05:41 To the death. My death. 05:43 To death means that you need to have a commitment. 05:46 Right. And I think that's our problem. 05:48 That's how important it is. 05:49 It's the most essential basis 05:51 of our being as creatures as Jefferson said, 05:55 you know, "Nature's God," we know who nature's God is. 05:58 He made us 05:59 with this inalienable right of freedom, 06:02 but it's a freedom to choose. 06:04 In some cases, that might be to choose a bad 06:06 cause that will just destroy you 06:08 here and now. 06:09 But as long as that 06:10 person knowingly makes the choice, 06:12 I must defend it. 06:14 Now the Catholic Church, 06:15 as an exemplar of the Christian church 06:17 through the ages didn't quite get that. 06:19 I heard a Roman Cardinal a few years ago, 06:22 speaking well of religious liberty now, 06:24 you know, they defend in their own way, 06:27 the US Constitution, but he said, you know, 06:30 "The Catholic Church didn't always see it that way." 06:32 He says, "We once held that error has no rights." 06:38 Well, that sounded good from a paternalistic view, 06:41 we won't allow you to choose the wrong thing 06:43 and destroy yourself. 06:45 So you either come back to the mother church, 06:47 or then we'll destroy you 06:48 since you're determined to be destroyed. 06:50 But that's not religious liberty. 06:51 So religious liberty is defending everybody's right 06:55 to follow their conscience, 06:56 no matter where that leads them. 06:58 But is that being squeezed out now? 07:00 I mean, the ability to follow your conscience. 07:01 It's being squeezed out by fear 07:03 and hatred of Muslims in the United States, 07:05 being squeezed out by mockery of religion 07:09 by seculars, it's being squeezed out, 07:12 and I'd like to touch on this 07:14 by sort of diverting 07:19 the natural optimism of young people 07:21 towards social activity or social programs, 07:25 social justice and so on, 07:27 rather than this eternal value of the individual 07:30 and your choice for the direction of your life. 07:33 Is it also being squeezed out in sexuality too? 07:36 Well, yeah, 'cause it's wine, women, and song, you know, 07:39 for tomorrow we die. 07:40 It's for momentary 07:42 or short term essential gratification. 07:46 Yeah, not thinking about more and... 07:48 Not more important, 07:49 but the important things of existence. 07:51 I think it comes down to for a young person 07:53 that it has to do with their commitment. 07:56 What is their view of God 07:58 because if they don't have essentially a view of God, 08:01 then how can you worship God 08:04 if you don't have a correct view of Him? 08:05 But you understand it 08:07 and I think I've come at this a long time ago, 08:09 but you've explained it in a clear way 08:11 what is problematic to me 08:16 with young people and older people, 08:18 a lot of people call themselves Christians 08:21 but if they're not converted, 08:22 if their life has not changed from 08:24 what it was before, there's no point 08:27 to try to rev them up 08:28 for religious liberty or whatever. 08:31 You can't, you know, 08:32 the Bible talking about the dead bones. 08:35 It says no life there. 08:37 For me, let me go to the next question. 08:38 You can't send a lifeless body out to witness to someone else. 08:42 When we're talking about... 08:43 You defined what religious liberty is, 08:45 then, I guess take it to the next step 08:47 so that they understand 08:49 what does it mean to be convicted or converted? 08:52 Because I think 08:53 for a young person today, conviction, 08:56 you know, you look at a young person today 08:58 and the problems that they have 09:00 is they don't understand really what commitment truly 09:03 is because they come from homes 09:05 where their mothers and fathers took a vow 09:08 to love each other in sickness, until death do us part, 09:11 but they see that being broken up. 09:14 So what is commitment to them 09:15 when it can be basically divorced, taken apart? 09:20 In another program I quoted 09:21 from William Butler Yeats' Second Coming poem. 09:27 And he made a little bit different 09:29 than what Adventists might for the second coming, 09:31 but he says "The best lack all conviction, 09:35 while the worst are full of passionate intensity." 09:40 You know, if you have lots of intensity, 09:41 but you're not centered on the right view of God, 09:44 it's a waste. 09:46 But the best are lacking conviction. 09:49 There's plenty of intensity in our world and essential 09:54 or just living for the moment, 09:56 you know, covers drugs and sex and all the rest 09:58 but all of these short circuiting of experience, 10:01 they can give it to you in a way, 10:02 that's passionate intensity. 10:05 But we need to give conviction to the best. 10:08 And I don't know the answer except 10:11 that I believe that it needs to be a total 10:15 like Jesus said in John Chapter 3, 10:17 "A total change of life," and usually it's trauma. 10:23 And I guess now we're getting to what is troubling me. 10:26 I am troubled that in the middle 10:28 of the COVID experience, 10:30 which is globally traumatic. 10:32 I don't see too much spiritual trauma 10:35 where people are turning again to God. 10:38 That's true, like 9/11. 10:40 Yeah, a little bit of it in 9/11. 10:42 Not now. There was a lot in 9/11. 10:44 Yes. But today. 10:46 So it's a different sort of trauma. 10:47 And I think it's working against human values, 10:52 not just spiritual values, but it's odd. 10:54 I expect at some point, 10:55 especially if the numbers tick up, 10:57 you'll see a pseudo revival. 11:00 Is it odd or is it really the norm nowadays? 11:02 Because John did say in Revelation Chapter 3 11:06 that we have become rich, we're in need of nothing. 11:09 And so could it be that because we are rich, 11:13 and we are in need of nothing, 11:14 we become very self-sufficient, 11:16 we can take care of ourselves. 11:17 And for a young person today, they have their smartphone, 11:22 they have their friends, 11:23 they have everything that they can rely on. 11:25 So God doesn't really fit in the picture. 11:28 Yeah, yeah. 11:30 But let's catch it on another thing 11:32 'cause I know that young people, 11:34 certainly many that I know, even my own... 11:37 And my own. 11:38 Kids, young people, I've got one's a teenager, 11:43 and one's on the other side of that, 11:45 but I still think of them as little kids. 11:47 But I know that they respond to social justice, 11:51 issues of social justice 11:53 and many young people in the last few weeks 11:55 will go out on the streets and demonstrate 11:58 and some do worse as they're activated. 12:01 But they won't do it for spiritual values. 12:04 Yeah. So how can that be redirected? 12:08 Because it was young people, 12:10 starting with young disciples of the recently deceased 12:15 and risen Jesus Christ 12:18 that changed the world in a lifetime. 12:20 Could it be that all this is 12:24 because the core values are skewed? 12:29 And because core values are skewed, 12:30 they are not as committed 12:33 to one thing as they are in other thing. 12:36 Yeah, so but how do we get them on to... 12:38 How do we change the core value? 12:40 How do we steer them 12:42 toward understanding religious liberty 12:45 and living the life in a world changing way? 12:49 What they've got to be able to see that 12:52 really all the things 12:53 that are happening in their lifetime, 12:55 which for you and I, we can see where it ramps up, 12:58 for them it's almost a norm to them. 13:01 So they've got to be able to go beyond that and say 13:05 "It's really not normal. 13:07 Not in the history of this world 13:09 but it's there because this is all building up 13:12 to the climax that Jesus is coming." 13:14 Yeah. 13:15 I don't know how many parents or older people in the church 13:19 or even in society as a whole are quite aware 13:22 but the young people 13:23 are being nurtured now 13:25 on The Purge. 13:30 You know about The Purge? 13:32 The movie, The Purge. 13:33 And the Hunger Games. 13:36 Oh, yeah. The Hunger Games. 13:38 The Purge is gone the next step, 13:39 The Purge has a future society 13:42 where once a year there is open goal, 13:45 you can kill for so many hours, 13:47 you can take care of your enemies, 13:49 it's legal to kill Hope that's fictional, right? 13:54 Well, it's a futuristic model 13:57 that's being presented to young people. 13:59 And it fits exactly on biblical prophecy. 14:02 We'll take a break and be back shortly 14:05 to continue this very serious discussion 14:08 of passing the torch 14:09 to a younger generation in a critical time. 14:12 Stay with us. |
Revised 2020-07-23