Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:28.76\00:00:30.53
This is your program,
00:00:30.56\00:00:32.36
designed to bring you
news, views, information,
00:00:32.39\00:00:36.20
and understanding on
religious liberty events
00:00:36.23\00:00:39.27
of our day in the world
00:00:39.30\00:00:41.40
and often in the
United States in particular.
00:00:41.44\00:00:43.87
My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine,
00:00:43.91\00:00:47.28
and my guest on the
program is Pastor Alden Ho.
00:00:47.31\00:00:50.95
A little bit younger than me,
00:00:50.98\00:00:53.01
which is
important for this program
00:00:53.05\00:00:54.38
because I want to talk about
youth and religious liberty.
00:00:54.42\00:00:58.95
Your background is...
00:00:58.99\00:01:01.02
bit like mine, you're a world...
00:01:01.06\00:01:03.93
A man of the world,
00:01:03.96\00:01:06.03
born in
Singapore, lived in Canada,
00:01:06.06\00:01:08.53
and now the United States.
00:01:08.56\00:01:09.90
Be careful how you
define men of the world.
00:01:09.93\00:01:11.27
And you're in
Texas and for Texans
00:01:11.30\00:01:13.23
that is the United States.
00:01:13.27\00:01:14.67
Yeah, exactly. The lone star.
00:01:14.70\00:01:17.27
Yeah.
00:01:17.31\00:01:18.71
You know, I've been working
00:01:18.74\00:01:20.54
with Liberty
Magazine for two decades now.
00:01:20.58\00:01:23.91
Didn't seem long.
00:01:23.95\00:01:25.88
And I've lived a
little longer than that.
00:01:25.91\00:01:27.98
I've been concerned
00:01:28.02\00:01:29.35
with religious
liberty my whole life.
00:01:29.38\00:01:32.15
I've been inspired
00:01:32.19\00:01:34.02
in our
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:01:34.06\00:01:35.56
the Editor of
the Liberty precursor
00:01:35.59\00:01:38.06
was Alonzo T. Jones.
00:01:38.09\00:01:39.53
He was in his 20s
when he began editing,
00:01:39.56\00:01:43.06
just mustered
out of the military,
00:01:43.10\00:01:44.93
full of energy and enthusiasm.
00:01:44.97\00:01:48.27
And within a few years,
00:01:48.30\00:01:50.41
he got involved
with fighting back
00:01:50.44\00:01:52.27
a national Sunday law in the US.
00:01:52.31\00:01:56.01
But I've noticed in recent years
00:01:56.04\00:02:00.18
as during the time
I've been editing Liberty,
00:02:00.22\00:02:02.08
that it's the
older people that support
00:02:02.12\00:02:04.25
what we're doing.
00:02:04.29\00:02:05.69
And, you know,
thank you, older people.
00:02:05.72\00:02:08.62
Maybe my peers, I don't
know. I don't feel that old.
00:02:08.66\00:02:11.63
But I'm older than
they ever thought I'd be.
00:02:11.66\00:02:13.33
But, you know, older people
00:02:13.36\00:02:14.70
and it's not unique
to religious liberty,
00:02:14.73\00:02:16.06
most church and indeed,
00:02:16.10\00:02:19.27
philanthropic organizations,
00:02:19.30\00:02:21.57
it's the older people
that both are more thoughtful
00:02:21.60\00:02:24.31
and I think have the
means and they've stored up,
00:02:24.34\00:02:26.94
they give them money.
00:02:26.98\00:02:28.31
But with religious liberty,
00:02:28.34\00:02:30.15
we need to involve young people,
00:02:30.18\00:02:32.21
used to be more young people.
00:02:32.25\00:02:34.68
How can we get
young people involved
00:02:34.72\00:02:36.85
and why young people is involved
00:02:36.89\00:02:39.15
with defending
religious liberties
00:02:39.19\00:02:40.99
as we would wish?
00:02:41.02\00:02:43.02
I think it's a
systematic problem.
00:02:43.06\00:02:45.63
And it has to do...
00:02:45.66\00:02:47.06
It's not just religious liberty
00:02:47.10\00:02:48.93
that we need to get
young people involved in.
00:02:48.96\00:02:51.10
It's also the
fact that in church,
00:02:51.13\00:02:55.60
in the worship service,
00:02:55.64\00:02:57.24
in their
overall daily commitment
00:02:57.27\00:02:59.97
they need to get deeper in that.
00:03:00.01\00:03:02.91
But Satan's working
really hard in these last days.
00:03:02.94\00:03:07.12
And he's got them so preoccupied
00:03:07.15\00:03:10.82
with many
different things around that
00:03:10.85\00:03:13.12
their focus is not really on God
00:03:13.15\00:03:15.99
as it should be.
00:03:16.02\00:03:17.36
But many of them are
coming around, you know.
00:03:17.39\00:03:20.00
Well, there's always exceptions
to any generalization and yes,
00:03:20.03\00:03:23.20
but in the main
there is this disconnect.
00:03:23.23\00:03:27.44
There is.
00:03:27.47\00:03:28.80
In the
Seventh-day Adventist church,
00:03:28.84\00:03:30.17
it's very real.
00:03:30.21\00:03:31.54
But, you know, I can
read Roman Catholic Church,
00:03:31.57\00:03:34.81
the largest
Christian denomination,
00:03:34.84\00:03:36.64
you go to a
Cathedral for mass, you know,
00:03:36.68\00:03:42.48
the sprinkling old
people almost guaranteed.
00:03:42.52\00:03:45.35
You know, a lot many.
00:03:45.39\00:03:46.72
I find it interesting
that Mrs. White wrote one time
00:03:46.76\00:03:49.49
and she said
that we need an army.
00:03:49.52\00:03:52.43
Ellen White was the visionary,
00:03:52.46\00:03:54.90
co-founder of
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:03:54.93\00:03:56.70
in the mid 1800s.
00:03:56.73\00:03:58.07
And she wrote and she says that
00:03:58.10\00:03:59.67
we need an army of young people.
00:03:59.70\00:04:01.80
And it's not just
an army of young people
00:04:01.84\00:04:03.41
because the next
sentence is "Rightly trained."
00:04:03.44\00:04:05.34
Rightly trained, yeah.
00:04:05.37\00:04:06.71
And that's where we're at.
00:04:06.74\00:04:08.08
And I'm wondering,
00:04:08.11\00:04:09.44
and I stood
there in Munich, right,
00:04:09.48\00:04:12.15
not in Munich, in Nuremberg,
00:04:12.18\00:04:13.78
right where that place was that
00:04:13.82\00:04:15.88
Hitler was at where he
had his army of young people.
00:04:15.92\00:04:18.95
Well, he did understand
00:04:18.99\00:04:20.69
how to involve the young people,
00:04:20.72\00:04:22.06
the Hitler Youth
Movement preceded World War II,
00:04:22.09\00:04:26.33
a couple of decades almost.
00:04:26.36\00:04:27.70
Yeah.
00:04:27.73\00:04:29.06
But they were committed to that.
00:04:29.10\00:04:30.43
So how do we get young people
00:04:30.47\00:04:31.80
today committed
to the Word of God,
00:04:31.83\00:04:33.80
committed to religious liberty?
00:04:33.84\00:04:35.97
I guess, in that sense,
00:04:36.00\00:04:38.31
if there's a young
person watching today,
00:04:38.34\00:04:40.38
they may be
defined for a young person
00:04:40.41\00:04:43.08
so that they understand
because they probably are like
00:04:43.11\00:04:45.65
"Religious liberty,
what does that mean?
00:04:45.68\00:04:47.18
Does that mean I
have liberty to be
00:04:47.22\00:04:51.45
whatever religion I want?"
00:04:51.49\00:04:52.95
How would you
define religious liberty
00:04:52.99\00:04:54.99
in a very layman's terminology
for a young person today?
00:04:55.02\00:05:00.90
Well, I take
home meetings on it.
00:05:00.93\00:05:03.33
Used two syllabus words.
00:05:03.37\00:05:05.73
Yeah, yeah. I
mean, syllable words.
00:05:05.77\00:05:07.34
Well, first of all
and you came close to it,
00:05:07.37\00:05:09.17
something that most people
00:05:09.20\00:05:10.54
don't understand
religious liberty
00:05:10.57\00:05:12.47
is what was granted in Eden.
00:05:12.51\00:05:14.18
It's the right,
even the obligation
00:05:14.21\00:05:17.38
as a creature of God
to make our own choice
00:05:17.41\00:05:20.78
about following God
or not following God.
00:05:20.82\00:05:24.09
And this is where some people
bail out on religious liberty
00:05:24.12\00:05:27.49
as even Liberty
Magazine advances it.
00:05:27.52\00:05:31.09
I need to be able to
defend your right to the death
00:05:31.13\00:05:35.16
if necessary to
believe whatever you want
00:05:35.20\00:05:38.40
or disbelieve whatever you want.
00:05:38.43\00:05:41.24
To the death. My death.
00:05:41.27\00:05:43.77
To death means that you
need to have a commitment.
00:05:43.81\00:05:46.74
Right. And I think
that's our problem.
00:05:46.78\00:05:48.11
That's how important it is.
00:05:48.14\00:05:49.48
It's the most essential basis
00:05:49.51\00:05:51.51
of our being as
creatures as Jefferson said,
00:05:51.55\00:05:55.18
you know, "Nature's God,"
we know who nature's God is.
00:05:55.22\00:05:58.59
He made us
00:05:58.62\00:05:59.95
with this
inalienable right of freedom,
00:05:59.99\00:06:02.66
but it's a freedom to choose.
00:06:02.69\00:06:04.46
In some cases, that
might be to choose a bad
00:06:04.49\00:06:06.46
cause that will just destroy you
00:06:06.49\00:06:08.06
here and now.
00:06:08.10\00:06:09.43
But as long as that
00:06:09.46\00:06:10.80
person knowingly
makes the choice,
00:06:10.83\00:06:12.40
I must defend it.
00:06:12.43\00:06:14.10
Now the Catholic Church,
00:06:14.14\00:06:15.74
as an exemplar of
the Christian church
00:06:15.77\00:06:17.74
through the ages
didn't quite get that.
00:06:17.77\00:06:19.74
I heard a Roman
Cardinal a few years ago,
00:06:19.77\00:06:22.51
speaking well of
religious liberty now,
00:06:22.54\00:06:24.88
you know, they
defend in their own way,
00:06:24.91\00:06:27.92
the US Constitution,
but he said, you know,
00:06:27.95\00:06:30.49
"The Catholic Church
didn't always see it that way."
00:06:30.52\00:06:32.45
He says, "We once held
that error has no rights."
00:06:32.49\00:06:38.43
Well, that sounded good
from a paternalistic view,
00:06:38.46\00:06:41.33
we won't allow you to
choose the wrong thing
00:06:41.36\00:06:43.83
and destroy yourself.
00:06:43.87\00:06:45.20
So you either come
back to the mother church,
00:06:45.23\00:06:47.54
or then we'll destroy you
00:06:47.57\00:06:48.90
since you're
determined to be destroyed.
00:06:48.94\00:06:50.47
But that's not
religious liberty.
00:06:50.51\00:06:51.84
So religious liberty is
defending everybody's right
00:06:51.87\00:06:55.54
to follow their conscience,
00:06:55.58\00:06:56.95
no matter where that leads them.
00:06:56.98\00:06:58.35
But is that
being squeezed out now?
00:06:58.38\00:07:00.58
I mean, the ability to
follow your conscience.
00:07:00.62\00:07:01.95
It's being squeezed out by fear
00:07:01.98\00:07:03.59
and hatred of
Muslims in the United States,
00:07:03.62\00:07:05.89
being squeezed out
by mockery of religion
00:07:05.92\00:07:09.56
by seculars, it's
being squeezed out,
00:07:09.59\00:07:12.43
and I'd like to touch on this
00:07:12.46\00:07:14.46
by sort of diverting
00:07:14.50\00:07:19.87
the natural
optimism of young people
00:07:19.90\00:07:21.90
towards social
activity or social programs,
00:07:21.94\00:07:25.31
social justice and so on,
00:07:25.34\00:07:26.98
rather than this
eternal value of the individual
00:07:27.01\00:07:30.48
and your choice for
the direction of your life.
00:07:30.51\00:07:33.78
Is it also being
squeezed out in sexuality too?
00:07:33.82\00:07:36.52
Well, yeah, 'cause it's
wine, women, and song, you know,
00:07:36.55\00:07:39.09
for tomorrow we die.
00:07:39.12\00:07:40.46
It's for momentary
00:07:40.49\00:07:42.92
or short term
essential gratification.
00:07:42.96\00:07:46.63
Yeah, not
thinking about more and...
00:07:46.66\00:07:48.23
Not more important,
00:07:48.26\00:07:49.60
but the important
things of existence.
00:07:49.63\00:07:51.37
I think it comes
down to for a young person
00:07:51.40\00:07:53.44
that it has to do
with their commitment.
00:07:53.47\00:07:56.50
What is their view of God
00:07:56.54\00:07:58.01
because if they don't
have essentially a view of God,
00:07:58.04\00:08:01.78
then how can you worship God
00:08:01.81\00:08:04.01
if you don't have a
correct view of Him?
00:08:04.05\00:08:05.68
But you understand it
00:08:05.71\00:08:07.05
and I think I've come
at this a long time ago,
00:08:07.08\00:08:09.68
but you've
explained it in a clear way
00:08:09.72\00:08:11.55
what is problematic to me
00:08:11.59\00:08:15.99
with young
people and older people,
00:08:16.02\00:08:18.29
a lot of people call
themselves Christians
00:08:18.33\00:08:21.03
but if they're not converted,
00:08:21.06\00:08:22.66
if their life
has not changed from
00:08:22.70\00:08:24.40
what it was
before, there's no point
00:08:24.43\00:08:27.44
to try to rev them up
00:08:27.47\00:08:28.80
for religious
liberty or whatever.
00:08:28.84\00:08:31.44
You can't, you know,
00:08:31.47\00:08:32.81
the Bible talking
about the dead bones.
00:08:32.84\00:08:35.14
It says no life there.
00:08:35.18\00:08:37.11
For me, let me go
to the next question.
00:08:37.15\00:08:38.75
You can't send a lifeless body
out to witness to someone else.
00:08:38.78\00:08:42.08
When we're talking about...
00:08:42.12\00:08:43.45
You defined what
religious liberty is,
00:08:43.49\00:08:45.72
then, I guess take
it to the next step
00:08:45.75\00:08:47.69
so that they understand
00:08:47.72\00:08:49.12
what does it mean to
be convicted or converted?
00:08:49.16\00:08:52.23
Because I think
00:08:52.26\00:08:53.60
for a young
person today, conviction,
00:08:53.63\00:08:56.77
you know, you look
at a young person today
00:08:56.80\00:08:58.77
and the problems that they have
00:08:58.80\00:09:00.14
is they don't understand
really what commitment truly
00:09:00.17\00:09:03.54
is because they come from homes
00:09:03.57\00:09:05.24
where their mothers
and fathers took a vow
00:09:05.27\00:09:08.68
to love each other in sickness,
until death do us part,
00:09:08.71\00:09:11.95
but they see
that being broken up.
00:09:11.98\00:09:14.02
So what is commitment to them
00:09:14.05\00:09:15.88
when it can be
basically divorced, taken apart?
00:09:15.92\00:09:20.49
In another program I quoted
00:09:20.52\00:09:21.86
from William Butler
Yeats' Second Coming poem.
00:09:21.89\00:09:27.76
And he made a
little bit different
00:09:27.80\00:09:29.33
than what Adventists
might for the second coming,
00:09:29.36\00:09:31.83
but he says "The
best lack all conviction,
00:09:31.87\00:09:35.84
while the worst are full
of passionate intensity."
00:09:35.87\00:09:40.11
You know, if you
have lots of intensity,
00:09:40.14\00:09:41.88
but you're not centered
on the right view of God,
00:09:41.91\00:09:44.41
it's a waste.
00:09:44.45\00:09:46.38
But the best are
lacking conviction.
00:09:46.41\00:09:49.45
There's plenty of intensity
in our world and essential
00:09:49.48\00:09:54.46
or just living for the moment,
00:09:54.49\00:09:56.26
you know, covers drugs
and sex and all the rest
00:09:56.29\00:09:58.59
but all of these short
circuiting of experience,
00:09:58.63\00:10:01.56
they can give
it to you in a way,
00:10:01.60\00:10:02.93
that's passionate intensity.
00:10:02.96\00:10:04.97
But we need to give
conviction to the best.
00:10:05.00\00:10:07.97
And I don't know
the answer except
00:10:08.00\00:10:10.97
that I believe that
it needs to be a total
00:10:11.01\00:10:15.11
like Jesus said
in John Chapter 3,
00:10:15.14\00:10:17.78
"A total change of
life," and usually it's trauma.
00:10:17.81\00:10:23.05
And I guess now we're
getting to what is troubling me.
00:10:23.08\00:10:26.39
I am troubled that in the middle
00:10:26.42\00:10:28.32
of the COVID experience,
00:10:28.36\00:10:30.09
which is globally traumatic.
00:10:30.13\00:10:32.93
I don't see too
much spiritual trauma
00:10:32.96\00:10:35.76
where people are
turning again to God.
00:10:35.80\00:10:38.50
That's true, like 9/11.
00:10:38.53\00:10:40.50
Yeah, a little
bit of it in 9/11.
00:10:40.54\00:10:42.17
Not now. There
was a lot in 9/11.
00:10:42.20\00:10:44.47
Yes. But today.
00:10:44.51\00:10:46.17
So it's a
different sort of trauma.
00:10:46.21\00:10:47.74
And I think it's
working against human values,
00:10:47.78\00:10:52.15
not just spiritual
values, but it's odd.
00:10:52.18\00:10:54.48
I expect at some point,
00:10:54.52\00:10:55.85
especially if
the numbers tick up,
00:10:55.88\00:10:57.35
you'll see a pseudo revival.
00:10:57.39\00:11:00.16
Is it odd or is it
really the norm nowadays?
00:11:00.19\00:11:02.82
Because John did say
in Revelation Chapter 3
00:11:02.86\00:11:05.99
that we have become
rich, we're in need of nothing.
00:11:06.03\00:11:09.33
And so could it be
that because we are rich,
00:11:09.36\00:11:13.23
and we are in need of nothing,
00:11:13.27\00:11:14.60
we become very self-sufficient,
00:11:14.64\00:11:16.04
we can take care of ourselves.
00:11:16.07\00:11:17.81
And for a young person today,
they have their smartphone,
00:11:17.84\00:11:22.01
they have their friends,
00:11:22.04\00:11:23.38
they have everything
that they can rely on.
00:11:23.41\00:11:25.58
So God doesn't
really fit in the picture.
00:11:25.61\00:11:28.38
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:28.42\00:11:30.32
But let's catch
it on another thing
00:11:30.35\00:11:32.05
'cause I know that young people,
00:11:32.09\00:11:34.72
certainly many that
I know, even my own...
00:11:34.76\00:11:37.59
And my own.
00:11:37.63\00:11:38.96
Kids, young people,
I've got one's a teenager,
00:11:38.99\00:11:43.57
and one's on the
other side of that,
00:11:43.60\00:11:45.13
but I still think
of them as little kids.
00:11:45.17\00:11:47.14
But I know that they
respond to social justice,
00:11:47.17\00:11:51.94
issues of social justice
00:11:51.97\00:11:53.31
and many young
people in the last few weeks
00:11:53.34\00:11:55.88
will go out on the
streets and demonstrate
00:11:55.91\00:11:57.98
and some do worse
as they're activated.
00:11:58.01\00:12:01.42
But they won't do it
for spiritual values.
00:12:01.45\00:12:04.45
Yeah. So how can
that be redirected?
00:12:04.49\00:12:08.22
Because it was young people,
00:12:08.26\00:12:10.79
starting with young disciples
of the recently deceased
00:12:10.83\00:12:15.56
and risen Jesus Christ
00:12:15.60\00:12:17.97
that changed the
world in a lifetime.
00:12:18.00\00:12:20.44
Could it be that all this is
00:12:20.47\00:12:24.67
because the core
values are skewed?
00:12:24.71\00:12:28.98
And because core
values are skewed,
00:12:29.01\00:12:30.78
they are not as committed
00:12:30.81\00:12:33.35
to one thing as
they are in other thing.
00:12:33.38\00:12:36.65
Yeah, so but how do
we get them on to...
00:12:36.69\00:12:38.92
How do we change the core value?
00:12:38.95\00:12:40.32
How do we steer them
00:12:40.36\00:12:42.76
toward
understanding religious liberty
00:12:42.79\00:12:45.79
and living the life
in a world changing way?
00:12:45.83\00:12:49.93
What they've got
to be able to see that
00:12:49.96\00:12:52.03
really all the things
00:12:52.07\00:12:53.64
that are
happening in their lifetime,
00:12:53.67\00:12:55.44
which for you and I, we
can see where it ramps up,
00:12:55.47\00:12:58.57
for them it's
almost a norm to them.
00:12:58.61\00:13:01.84
So they've got to be
able to go beyond that and say
00:13:01.88\00:13:04.98
"It's really not normal.
00:13:05.01\00:13:07.22
Not in the history of this world
00:13:07.25\00:13:09.02
but it's there because
this is all building up
00:13:09.05\00:13:12.42
to the climax
that Jesus is coming."
00:13:12.45\00:13:14.12
Yeah.
00:13:14.16\00:13:15.72
I don't know how many parents
or older people in the church
00:13:15.76\00:13:19.59
or even in society as
a whole are quite aware
00:13:19.63\00:13:22.10
but the young people
00:13:22.13\00:13:23.47
are being nurtured now
00:13:23.50\00:13:25.03
on The Purge.
00:13:25.07\00:13:30.94
You know about The Purge?
00:13:30.97\00:13:32.37
The movie, The Purge.
00:13:32.41\00:13:33.78
And the Hunger Games.
00:13:33.81\00:13:36.51
Oh, yeah. The Hunger Games.
00:13:36.54\00:13:38.11
The Purge is gone the next step,
00:13:38.15\00:13:39.48
The Purge has a future society
00:13:39.51\00:13:42.08
where once a year
there is open goal,
00:13:42.12\00:13:45.32
you can kill for so many hours,
00:13:45.35\00:13:47.69
you can take
care of your enemies,
00:13:47.72\00:13:49.42
it's legal to kill Hope
that's fictional, right?
00:13:49.46\00:13:54.43
Well, it's a futuristic model
00:13:54.46\00:13:57.90
that's being
presented to young people.
00:13:57.93\00:13:59.63
And it fits exactly
on biblical prophecy.
00:13:59.67\00:14:02.77
We'll take a break
and be back shortly
00:14:02.80\00:14:05.17
to continue this
very serious discussion
00:14:05.21\00:14:08.14
of passing the torch
00:14:08.18\00:14:09.58
to a younger
generation in a critical time.
00:14:09.61\00:14:12.11
Stay with us.
00:14:12.15\00:14:13.58