Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200469A
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00:28 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is a program designed to get you thinking about 00:34 religious liberty in the US and around the world 00:37 and to bring you some up-to-date information 00:39 on religious freedom and how you can relate 00:43 to this very important principle. 00:44 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:48 and my guest on the program is Alden Ho, Pastor Alden Ho. 00:54 Interesting background, Singapore, Canada, 00:57 now pastor in the US and Texas, 01:00 and I know, a man of a lot of technological insight. 01:05 So let's talk about something that we've touched 01:07 on a few times in the past on this program. 01:09 But I think in the wake of the COVID pandemic 01:13 or not in the wake, but we're in the middle of it. 01:15 We're right in it. 01:17 Electronics is not to be dismissed. 01:19 And, of course, 01:20 we're now communicating primarily 01:23 through all sorts of social networks 01:26 and Zoom for meetings and so on. 01:28 So we're very beholden, very under the thumb, 01:32 if you like of technology. 01:34 Do you see a role or a possibility 01:37 as we move into all of this, 01:39 that the very technology that we need 01:43 and love could really inhibit freedom in religious practice? 01:47 You know, I was... 01:49 As you're talking, I'm thinking about 01:51 how would the world be today amidst this COVID-19 thing 01:54 if there was no internet right now? 01:57 People would go stir crazy literally, 01:59 they would because people don't even know 02:01 how to go outside and do the regular things. 02:03 But today with all this that's going on. 02:08 Everything is getting down to control, 02:11 getting down to passing on information. 02:14 The national centre for whatever that they have... 02:17 Disease. 02:18 No, no, no, it's where they collect information. 02:22 It's a data collection place, and they're just dumping 02:27 lots and lots of information about you and I 02:29 and everybody else. 02:31 Well, I don't know if you've studied it, 02:34 but it's a few decades now 02:36 since the US government decided 02:39 as an aspiration 02:40 which they are making a reality 02:42 to collect all information. 02:44 Everything, as much as they can, yeah. 02:46 Everything, they haven't limited their scope, 02:48 everything, all electronic data. 02:50 And it's being sucked up like a vacuum 02:52 and kept in giant memory storage devices 02:57 and then sifted through in more and more 03:01 sophisticated manner. 03:04 I remember when it first came up in Washington, 03:06 it was called Project Carnivore. 03:09 Carnivore. 03:10 And that bothered a lot of people 03:11 'cause that sounds rather sinister. 03:13 Yeah. So they had to change that. 03:15 But, you know, we're in an era where the craziest things, 03:18 at least for a time, 03:20 some of them are given respectability. 03:22 I can remember early on, 03:23 I think, it was in the Bush administration. 03:26 I listened to a lot of hearings in Congress, 03:27 and it came out that out of the White House, 03:30 they were running a terrorism futures operation. 03:34 They were having people invest 03:38 in paying or putting money on 03:41 this date for a terrorist thing or that date, 03:44 and they had a very complicated algorithm, 03:47 and they believe that 03:48 the investment pattern itself would predict 03:52 when the event would take place. 03:53 That's crazy. 03:55 And it was shut down quickly when the Senate has got 03:57 an inkling of it. 03:58 But I think in some ways 04:00 through a lot of the sifting of information 04:02 and the seeing patterns of visiting different sites 04:06 and the choices that people see. 04:08 We're basically being double guests in a group way 04:12 by the electronic medium, or those that control it, 04:16 the high priests of the new technology. 04:17 So why do you think they're doing this? 04:19 Why do you think they're collecting this? 04:20 I don't think there's always a bad intention, 04:21 but a tool has been handed to the modern overseers 04:27 to control populations or not so much control, 04:29 to oversee, and to understand 04:32 even almost what you're thinking. 04:35 But, you know, all this, we know that all these things 04:38 are going to be used against us, 04:40 for God's people in the end time. 04:42 I mean, even just not even 04:44 dealing with the World Wide Web, 04:45 even the credit card. 04:47 They know, through American Express, 04:50 my spending habit, 04:51 they know where I go, they know what I buy. 04:54 And if I go to a place that I not normally go, 04:57 I get a phone call while I swipe that card 04:59 or insert that card, I get a phone call 05:01 from American Express and they said, 05:03 "Mr. Ho, we're just making sure 05:06 are you at such and such a place?" 05:08 They're collecting this, they know. 05:10 They know my spending habit, 05:11 they know that I don't go out and buy things on the Sabbath. 05:15 All this is being collected. 05:17 And I think one of these days 05:19 it's going to be used against us. 05:20 Of course, and in all societies, 05:23 information that comes up is used, it's evidence. 05:27 Depending on how free the society is, 05:29 it's used more and more, 05:31 or more or less aggressively, 05:32 but it'll be cited, I'm sure. 05:34 Yeah, years ago, 05:36 and I've mentioned on this program, 05:38 a fellow church member 05:39 who worked in some major downtown 05:42 Washington government office of... 05:44 I don't know the title but, you know, 05:46 the computer processing center, 05:48 he would come and he says "You have no idea." 05:50 He says that they understand everything about you, 05:52 what you're just saying, he says, 05:53 "You don't have to know who's a member of the church 05:57 or a political organization or whatever." 05:59 He says, "For example a Seventh-day Adventist," 06:01 he says, "Your car has got a built in GPS," 06:05 not the one that people know about. 06:07 There's a GPS in every car and the car companies told me 06:09 about it years ago, 06:10 they can switch your car off remotely, 06:12 anywhere and it tells where it is. 06:15 The GPS, your buying habits, your phone tracks you. 06:19 And so you put all that into a matrix and he says, 06:22 "When that's all put in, there's a huge hole 06:24 around the Sabbath in your travel, 06:26 your buying habits, your location, 06:28 the whole deal." 06:29 Hopefully, there's a hole around you. 06:31 No, I don't mind that. That's great. 06:33 I'm self-identified as a Seventh-day Adventist. 06:35 I think. 06:36 But you must remember, information cut loose 06:40 from context can be very damning. 06:43 And I remember hearing an FBI agent 06:46 once on YouTube explaining this and he says, 06:49 "Just remember," he says, 06:51 "You're not the one that gets to decide 06:55 what is right or wrong about what you do." 06:57 But I think... 06:59 It's a construction someone else puts on it. 07:00 The greater concern that we have to have 07:02 is not so much about Uncle Sam watching over us 07:06 but to understand that even more so, 07:09 even more not just where we go and what we do... 07:12 Now first of all the watchers, that used to be the term 07:14 for the angels, the heavily beings. 07:16 Right. They watch but... 07:17 But our thoughts are even being recorded in heaven. 07:20 Right. 07:22 So that should be a greater concern. 07:23 Absolutely. 07:24 And I always try to point this out, 07:27 you know, the mark of the beast, which... 07:29 Adventists are only one group that read that in the Bible, 07:33 and, you know, people can run amuck on that. 07:35 Not that important, it's a matter of loyalty 07:37 and whether or not it's some sort of barcode 07:40 or a tattoo on your arm, doesn't really matter. 07:45 If you understand the dynamic, we have to be loyal to the God. 07:49 And when we talk about these mechanisms of control, 07:51 you can't be so paranoid that, you know, 07:54 in the worst case people wear a tin hat, the cut out, 07:56 the, you know, the attempt to hack their brain. 08:00 But may or may not have some validity in some cases. 08:04 But, you know, if you live in such fear, 08:07 there's no escaping, 08:08 I mean, because it's crowding in on us, 08:10 that I think we need to know. 08:11 As Jesus said, "We're coming to a time of such hazard." 08:16 He says, "Unless those days be shortened, 08:18 no flesh will survive." 08:20 He didn't just say no faith would survive. 08:21 Right, yeah. 08:22 These are hazardous times 08:24 and I think man and his progress, 08:26 which is wonderful, you know, 08:27 we're going through a period of, 08:30 I mean, COVID's a bad period, but, you know, 08:32 generally speaking, 08:33 the progress of man has been great. 08:35 I mean, even kings didn't have 08:36 a toilet in their palace in old days. 08:39 You look back at, you know, the Roman Emperor, 08:43 he didn't live as good as someone in the tenements 08:46 of New York, you know. 08:48 But we're creating a situation that has a downside. 08:54 And this is why I'm so bothered about the social distancing. 08:57 We shouldn't let the worst aspects 08:58 of this takeover from the clear advantages, 09:03 practical advantages that modernization 09:05 has brought to us. 09:07 But this is all brought about now 09:09 because everybody has their electronics, 09:11 unless you're on an old flip phone or, 09:14 you know, what they call a dumb phone, 09:16 today everything is being ramped up 09:19 so that they can collect more information, 09:21 supposedly, to be able to know everything about you that 09:25 even you don't even know yourself. 09:28 Well, that's the theory of these algorithms 09:33 that they work, that supposedly they can, 09:35 you know, Hollywood 09:37 is not very sophisticated in many areas. 09:41 I think it's a cesspool 09:45 of unchristian behavior. 09:48 But, you know, just like science fiction books 09:51 of another era, they're sort of extrapolating 09:53 what they know 09:54 and there was that movie, was it Inception? 09:56 I think was, but the idea 09:58 that you can identify a future crime. 10:01 That's really where we're heading now 10:02 since 9/11. 10:05 After the terrorist incident that we saw 10:07 there where someone killed himself 10:08 committing the crime. 10:09 You can't wait to catch them doing it, 10:11 you need to look back on a line of causality 10:14 and identify someone that might do such a thing. 10:16 But China's already doing these things 10:17 by giving their citizens certain reward points 10:21 for their behavior. 10:23 So are you a good Chinese citizen? 10:25 Is that coming to the US? 10:27 I spoke to a woman recently 10:31 who had just come back 10:34 from a visit to China, 10:36 where she'd visited several home churches. 10:38 And she said that the... 10:42 at least in the major areas, 10:43 when you're travelling along the road, 10:45 the radar is tracking not only your speed 10:48 but photographing you inside the car 10:51 to see what you're doing inside the car. 10:53 And when you turn off the road 10:55 to go to a little town to a church, 10:57 it immediately tags that 10:59 and it'll go back to the central control 11:02 and alert them that 11:04 you're now freelancing so they can track you down. 11:07 And I even saw an English car program recently 11:11 and they were laughing about it. 11:12 They were driving it, not along the freeway in China 11:17 and it was just constant flash, ding, ding, 11:19 every 100, 200 yards, no more the light was going off 11:24 and photographing their speed 11:25 and what you're doing inside the car. 11:27 It's interesting 'cause I was over there in China 11:30 and I preached several years ago. 11:31 And it was a hot day but when I actually 11:34 went to start preaching on a second level 11:36 with all these Bible workers there 11:38 and elders, they closed all the blinds, 11:41 they closed the windows, they closed all the drapery, 11:43 and then they turned on the air conditioning, 11:46 so that my voice could not be heard outside 11:48 or anything like that 11:49 just to protect me from speaking. 11:52 But there are satellites that can have radar 11:57 that will see through a home 11:59 and from space can see who's in the home 12:01 and I think under some circumstances 12:03 even pick up the sound. 12:04 It's phenomenal. 12:06 We're in an age of outstanding scientific development. 12:09 And by the way I thought of it... 12:12 A few years ago I visited your church 12:15 and you had a drone, as I remember, 12:17 pretty sophisticated drone. 12:19 I thought of you when I saw one of the pictures 12:21 out of Wuhan. 12:22 They had drones on the road holding up signs 12:26 telling people what to do, but the drone was fixed there, 12:28 it wasn't travelling around. 12:30 And again, the drone's watching. 12:32 And actually, to come to think of technology 12:34 I saw and you also were born in Singapore, right? 12:40 In Singapore, they are using... 12:43 Since they don't want officials out 12:44 and around among the population picking up COVID, 12:47 they have robotic dogs that were developed 12:52 by the US military roaming around in the parks 12:55 and they look very sinister and in their fullest equipment, 12:59 you know, they have weaponry 13:02 where they will kill you with them. 13:04 And they're taking pictures 13:05 and they're recording what you're doing. 13:06 Right. And it's speaking 13:08 and it's interacting with the people 13:09 and so this dog's... 13:10 And back in the control booth, the guy's watching can see 13:13 how people react and treat this dog. 13:17 But it's science fiction, pure and simple. 13:20 And these dogs, nothing can upend them. 13:22 They can climb any barrier, 13:25 go quite fast, climb a hill, whatever. 13:28 It's not just, you know, 13:30 the Lost in Space Robinson family 13:33 thing with their robots, you know, little wheels, 13:35 or like in the supermarket, checking inventory, 13:38 no, these are incredible, 13:40 almost surreal looking creatures. 13:43 And we're talking sometimes about even the Jetson family. 13:46 But this is... 13:48 These dogs are, they're monitoring, 13:51 they're watching, 13:52 they're doing all these things, and it makes you wonder, 13:55 once again, more information, more data collection. 13:57 Yeah. 13:59 And what are they going to do with all this stuff? 14:00 Right. And... 14:03 I mean, I started in religious liberty, 14:09 quoting from Tale of Two Cities. 14:11 That was part of my literary upbringing, 14:13 you know, Charles Dickens novel set 14:15 in the time of the French Revolution between, 14:18 the Tale of Two Cities is London and Paris, 14:20 London at peace, democracy, 14:23 and revolution just across the channel. 14:25 And he begins it by saying 14:27 "It was the best of times, 14:28 it was the worst of times," and that's what we live in. 14:31 On one level, it's never been better, 14:33 these advances are fantastic. 14:36 You know, who would do without them? 14:37 But we need to realize the worst lurks there, 14:40 and when times turn bad, 14:42 and when persecution rears again, 14:44 even in the West. 14:46 This will complicate things radically. 14:48 Let's take a break now. We'll be back shortly. 14:50 Interesting discussion I think of our times, 14:54 but with the eternal principle of religious liberty at stake. 14:57 Stay with us. |
Revised 2020-08-14