Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200468A
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00:30 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:32 This is your program, 00:33 bringing you news, views, information, analysis, 00:36 and really an up-to-date perspective 00:38 on religious liberty in the US 00:41 often and also around the world. 00:43 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:47 and my guest on this program is Alden Ho, 00:50 pastor of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 00:53 And I want to... 00:55 Your background is varied, 00:56 maybe we'll get a little bit into that, 00:58 but you grew up or were born in Singapore... 01:02 Right. 01:03 Early years in Canada. 01:05 And your last assignment, 01:06 you were an Adventist chaplain and sort of jack of all trades, 01:13 I think for Jefferson Academy, 01:15 a self-supporting academy in Jefferson, Texas, right? 01:18 Right. Correct. 01:20 I want to talk with you about where we are today. 01:23 And where we are today is I hope six... 01:25 Far apart. Six foot apart. 01:28 Not good. 01:29 You know, the co-founder 01:31 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 01:32 Ellen White, 01:33 a visionary people believe that with good evidence 01:37 that God was speaking through her 01:38 and she said many times, 01:40 press together, press together, press together. 01:43 Doesn't know how you do that in. 01:44 Wonder what she would say now? 01:46 Yes. 01:47 But, of course, she meant that figuratively in unification, 01:50 but, you know, 01:52 we're in a difficult social distancing time 01:55 in the US and indeed around the world. 01:58 A global pandemic, 01:59 that is real, although not to be, 02:03 I think in any way equated 02:04 with the Black Death of Europe, 02:07 where third of Europe died at one point 02:10 not to be compared even yet with the 1918 flu pandemic, 02:14 but the effects that we've experienced 02:16 not so much the disease itself 02:18 but the social effects that is far reaching, 02:20 aren't they? 02:21 What's your take on it, 02:23 especially from a religious practice 02:25 and a religious liberty point of view? 02:27 Well, we know that Matthew 24, 02:30 Jesus already told the disciples, 02:32 these things are gonna happen. 02:33 Right. 02:34 You know, there were certain aspects 02:36 that we were told there would be nation 02:37 against nation. 02:39 And that's not just like 02:40 a country versus another country, 02:42 its races as in ethnic groups. 02:45 And what do we have today? 02:47 We have blacks, whites, 02:49 you have a lot of writing 02:52 as a result of this nation against nation, 02:55 and then you have pestilence on top of all this. 02:58 So... 03:00 And false messiahs. False messiahs. 03:01 And spiritual dislocations or one type of another. 03:04 Yeah, earthquakes, we just had what 7.3 or something 6.3 03:09 down in New Zealand just recently. 03:11 So a lot of these things 03:12 are starting to ramp up right now 03:15 because it's prophetic. 03:16 We were told it was going to happen. 03:17 Yes, I did something that I've done many times, 03:23 but recently I went 03:24 to old copies of Liberty Magazine 03:26 to see how they wrote up 03:28 or how they reacted to different events. 03:31 And I went to the flu plan pandemic year in 1918. 03:35 Look for that whole year and then a few months beyond, 03:38 and I didn't find anything about the flu, 03:40 which is interesting. 03:42 Really? 03:43 What I found quite a bit on was World War I 03:45 which clearly overshadowed the killing, 03:50 where 600,000 people died in the US 03:53 and I don't know the population, 03:54 but it was considerably less than its present 307 million, 04:00 you know, my guess is that it might have been 04:02 a bit over 100 million, 04:04 maybe 150 million, but no more than half. 04:07 So 600,000 a lot of people, 04:10 and I noticed that at the time, 04:13 but compared to World War I, 04:14 the war to end of wars if you read the history books, 04:18 it faded, but even World War I, 04:21 they didn't talk about it 04:23 as thought it was the end of time. 04:25 They spoke of it as you did a sign of the end. 04:29 More to come. 04:30 Yes. Definitely more to come. 04:32 And I don't think I'm sure you're the same. 04:35 There's nothing to be happy about this. 04:37 No. In itself, but... 04:39 But there is something to be happy about... 04:41 Yeah, but beyond that. 04:43 I've said before my Father who's been dead for years now. 04:47 When I would tell him about different developments, 04:49 he invariably would say 04:51 when I tried to scare him may be. 04:53 He would say, "Isn't it wonderful?" 04:55 He says, "The Lord's about to come." 04:57 So we need to keep this. 04:58 The Bible says, "The blessed hope in mind." 05:00 That's the positive aspect of the whole thing 05:02 that we need to keep that hope in mind 05:05 that all these things we were told 05:07 are going to happen. 05:08 They are happening. 05:10 And we were told that it's gonna be very quick 05:11 that all these things are happening 05:13 in just within weeks, 05:15 our world changed. 05:16 Everybody's wearing a mask. 05:17 Everybody's staying at home. 05:19 I mean, I was watching the news 05:21 and all the stuff that was happening in India, 05:23 people staying at home, 05:24 and then that cyclone came through 05:26 and started heading towards Bangladesh. 05:29 It was really chaotic at that point, 05:31 but then we bring it back home here. 05:34 And it's a very strange time 05:36 because during that time period, 05:38 just as it hit, 05:39 I was actually, took a sabbatical from ministry 05:42 and I started my bike ride 05:44 from San Diego to St. Augustine, Florida. 05:47 And for 45 days, 05:49 2500 miles I rode across the US right during all of this 05:53 and it was pretty crazy time. 05:56 Well, let's talk about that. 05:58 Before the program you were sharing that, 06:01 but you had a sort of an overview of the US 06:05 as it entered into this historic social dislocation, 06:09 relocation. 06:10 Yeah. What did you see? 06:11 Did you see any difference? 06:13 The first thing I noticed was 06:14 when I got on the plane in Dallas, Fort Worth 06:17 flying on Southwest Airlines flying from there to San Diego. 06:22 You went through the TSA security 06:24 very, very quickly, 06:25 but once you were on the plane, 06:27 I started looking around 06:28 and it was probably between 20% to 25% 06:33 full less than that amount. 06:35 I mean, there was nobody in the rows in front of me, 06:37 nobody in the rows behind me. 06:39 I was, it was me 06:40 and there was another guy next to me. 06:42 And so the amount of people that were flying, 06:46 then once you get to San Diego, 06:48 it was a very eerie feeling, 06:50 the airport should have been busy 06:52 for Sunday evening or Monday evening, 06:54 but it wasn't busy. 06:56 And, you know, 06:58 you go to greet the Uber driver. 07:00 And you go to shake hands, 07:01 and then you kind of just can't shake the person's hand, 07:04 a lot of craziness. 07:06 What you reminded me of this shortly after 9/11 07:09 when we were gearing up 07:10 as a country to attack Afghanistan, 07:13 whether or not we should is another question. 07:17 I was coming home from work one day, 07:19 I drove about an hour and a half at that time 07:24 to the General Conference, 07:25 our world headquarters have since moved to the NAD, 07:28 North American Division, 07:30 but I drove from my home in Hagerstown 07:33 in the relative country of Maryland, 07:35 about an hour and a half. 07:37 And so coming home I was mostly on the freeway, 07:39 the main 270, then into 70, 07:44 yeah, East-West freeway. 07:47 And usually it's pretty busy, 07:48 in fact, more or more stop and start 07:50 a lot of the way and as I headed off, 07:55 it got bad no one was moving. 07:57 And so I went off on a side road 07:59 and there was a man in black 08:00 sort of a guy in the movie almost with a walkie-talkie 08:04 and I asked him, I said, "Is it clear up ahead?" 08:06 He says, "A truck carrying missiles 08:10 has gone off the freeway, says, it's flocked up ahead, 08:13 you can't get through." 08:15 So I continued on the way I was going, didn't work. 08:19 So I came back 08:21 and he was no longer on the side road. 08:22 So I decided I'll try that road. 08:24 And I went on that road 08:26 and I came out of the woods 08:28 almost at the next intersection on the freeway. 08:32 And here are military guys 08:35 with their entourage and all the rest. 08:37 I see a huge military helicopter 08:39 on the freeway I see a truck tipped over. 08:42 And amazingly, 08:44 I drove past all of them 08:45 got on the freeway and drove home. 08:46 Not one car on the freeway. 08:48 I'm the only car but it's what, the effect is surreal. 08:52 Yeah. 08:53 It was like the world has ended. 08:55 And I wanted to take a stand still there. 08:57 I have the same feeling riding through, 08:59 there were certain parts 09:01 because everybody started to stay home. 09:03 And there was areas that I was riding 09:05 right on the double yellow line 09:08 because there are no cars around, 09:10 but what was interesting is, 09:12 even though people stayed at home, 09:13 truckers, they lifted their ban, 09:16 their limit. 09:18 So they didn't, 09:19 they could drive more than eight hours now. 09:21 That started to worry me because I thought, 09:23 "What if this guy's half asleep? 09:25 And he's going right by me?" 09:27 Yeah, I didn't know that. 09:28 So that's clearly visible changes, 09:30 but it has to have an effect, doesn't it? 09:32 On every area of life, and of course, on this program, 09:36 we think about religious liberty. 09:38 Can you imagine have you seen already 09:40 that there's any effects 09:41 on how people practice their religion? 09:44 Is it more free, less free, more inhibited, less inhibited? 09:47 I think people are being more careful now 09:50 because you have to be... 09:52 Well, people are watching. 09:54 Social media is watching. 09:56 Governor of California says, 09:58 "We will have social media to watch people 10:02 to make sure 10:03 that they're complying with this." 10:05 So through all of this, 10:07 you have to be politically correct 10:09 with your words, 10:10 but where is that political correctness? 10:13 Does it always stay that way? 10:14 Or do we actually draw the line somewhere? 10:17 Well, now you're getting 10:18 into the questions that I have... 10:20 Now is an overall disclaimer. 10:23 I have to say 10:24 we're facing a real health threat, 10:27 and things have to be done. 10:28 So it's pointless and would be counterproductive 10:32 for anyone in the name of religion 10:33 or any other freedom to just say, 10:35 "I'm not gonna obey any of this, 10:36 you know, forget it. 10:38 I'll do whatever I want." 10:39 That's socially irresponsible, 10:41 as well as a losing legal proposition, 10:44 but what has crossed my mind more and more, in fact, 10:47 it's overwhelming now. 10:49 I think, on many civil liberties 10:53 and in particular religious liberty 10:54 we have been blindsided by this 10:57 and we've almost without thinking, 10:59 given a way the whole game right out of the gate. 11:03 To define what do you mean by giving away the whole thing? 11:06 Well, you know, people in the Middle Ages, 11:10 you know, went to the dungeons, 11:13 they went to the burning pyre 11:17 and were killed for their faith 11:19 because they wouldn't give an inch 11:21 on practicing their faith 11:22 or meeting together with believers. 11:24 I remember visiting Rome driving to the catacombs 11:30 and going down there reading 11:31 how during the persecutions 11:32 when it was not safe to meet together as Christians, 11:36 they met even in the tombs. 11:39 Their life was a threat, 11:41 but they persisted because they wanted to meet. 11:46 You know, for the risk of what maybe it's three, 11:50 four more dangerous times more dangerous than the flu. 11:53 Churches are not much meeting anymore. 11:56 People are treating others as strangers. 11:58 The government is saying that... 12:00 Well, they're not saying per Se, 12:02 but churches have not 12:04 in the early stages of this lockdown, 12:06 they have not qualified as essential services. 12:10 True. 12:11 That is a mind-boggling shift. 12:13 But the liquor stores were open. 12:14 Right. 12:15 I know that, I was about to sort of, didn't. 12:17 And the pawn shops, P-A-W-N pawn shops. 12:20 So I don't particularly believe 12:23 that the authorities necessarily had a bad agenda, 12:27 but they've unthinkingly not seen the distinction 12:30 and religious people should have 12:32 and made a point of it. 12:36 I think this is a good time to make a break. 12:38 We'll be back. Stay with us. 12:39 I want to continue this discussion 12:41 about the times we live in. |
Revised 2020-07-09